So we had a DI AR fail just above 800 rounds, and we had a good AK 47 fail just above 800 rounds, and now we have a piston AR failing just after 800 rounds. Of course all 3 guns failed for different reasons, and the DI AR was the worse failure of the three, but at about the same time all three weapons would have been out of the fight. I guess in the end it doesn't matter all that much what you pick, as long as it's a decent rifle, your odds are pretty good . Great video as always.
In my opinion that was probably the best video for 3 reasons. 1. Steel case ammo works fine with no issues, even under full auto. 2. As you said, now manufacturers can resolve any issues with products. 3. Simply awesome to watch a gas piston system run like a champ.
So if you ran a thick barrel on a Di you would probably get over 1000. On the old test, it wasn't the gas system that failed, it was the skinny barrel. It looks like it's time for a retest.
Watching the AK, AR gas-impingement, AR piston meltdown test it was interesting that all three rifles seem to fail around the 8 minute mark and roughly similar round counts. You could make a career testing different components in each rifle to improve the results (i.e. the barrel mentioned in this video). Can't wait for the next video in this series.
I would love to see how a long stroke piston AR like the PWS would hold up to this kind of test. I would think a quality long stroke piston system would be the one to out preform the others.
We need to see this test with a Primary Weapons Systems upper long stroke piston. Or perhaps not. I'd hate to somehow be dissapointed, as my PWS seems perfect.
Made me pucker. I mean, our hero is in bomb team gear and Nixon keeps standing next to a barrel that's being tested to failure (if possible) while it's being run.
I know it’s an old video but LMT had heat treat issues that caused that same issue on my piston MRP. They replaced my BCG free of charge. I’d like to see the test with the new BCG.
at minute 10, i had same issue . my CMMG gas piston had failure to eject. I thought it was the extractor. luckily I has another bolt with me. when I was done. I concluded the ejector spring had stopped working. easy 8 dollar fix. I updated my other 3 rifles. Adams, POF and LWRC. the only D I rifle I have left is a Mk12 clone for precision. great video.
I agree, since it was the barrel and not the gas system that failed in the direct impingement video, I would like to see if a di gun could go longer with this barrel.
Lmt makes these monolithic uppers and they have a 20 inch barrel for one of them. I don't think they're DI but it's still pretty sweet how you can get an lmt quality monolithic upper with a full length barrel that also isn't old-school m16a4. Eventhough I like those too because I can actually afford one and I cannot afford an lmt 😂😂😂 but maybe one day
Damn I love these videos so much. Your meltdowns are by far the best. Please make one with as many weapons as you can get ahold of and especially with an original Russian AK. ^^
+bfgguns we have some fun ones planned. They take awhile to put together sometimes, because we usually have to have certain guns specifically manufactured for the meltdowns and that takes time and money.
Awesome video! My thoughts are that they should machine contacting surfaces of the piston rod / divot the contact point on the carrier - hence providing a guide for a repetitive contact area, while strengthening both metals. Thanks for another entertaining video!
Daniel Jones The WASR was garbage... They did another meltdown with a VEPR AK and it lasted 900+ rounds. The AK-74 shoots the 5.45x39 round, which is basically Russia's version of the .223/5.56x45 NATO used in ARs. I think an AK-74 has the potential to last longer than the AKM and AR, while possibly giving the Glock's 1,200 rd count a challenge.
+DecimationCDXX +no no I misread the original comment, thanks for not being assholes about correcting me. that is an interesting thought though, I wonder how differently it'd perform compared to the vepr-which was more relevant of a test to me because I'm not a fan of wasrs at all.
+Iraqveteran8888 I'm glad to see Eric is wearing a bit more PPE for these videos. One of these days, a stressed out gun is going to have something go catastrophically wrong on the bolt end of the gun and I'd like Eric to keep his fingers and face :)
730 rounds on the POF DI gun, 733 on this piston. The POF gun had a catastrophic failure, the LMT piston wasn't quite that bad, but they both failed at about the same point.
@supermario75 "only because of the piston" so it only failed because a major part failure? Legit it's a major working part that's just as significant as a barrel pop the gun isn't working anymore
Lars lol I wish more people would get the joke on this and chime in. Every time he does this, we need to have hundreds of people pile on with their "Indeeds" and such things
I'd like to see a delayed roller blowback such as a G3 or HK53 meltdown to see how that mechanism fairs since it has no gas tube or piston and see if that makes a difference
Thank you for the awesome video, but also thank you for the "if you haven't gotten shot yet" portion. Most people who think about gunfights don't consider that if you are using a main battle rifle, and you have expended over 100 rounds, if you haven't been shot yet, youre doing extremely well.
this LMT ran like a champ...idk what everyone is complaining about..lol...and when you add in factors other than how many rounds can be cycled in 5 minutes it's an awesome platform. The true MRP and ability to switch caliber plus superb accuracy sounds like a winner. maybe next time you're out on patrol with 1000 rds could be an issue haha.
I'd be interested to see how an upper from primary weapons systems would do in a test like this. Their piston is connected directly to the BCG so there would be no chance for it to strike it
It would be kind of neat to see you guys do a "bullet proof melt down". Build an upper with a bunch of parts that you think will make it last the longest before failure.
+Seth Wilcox I agree the test should be repeated using the same profile barrel on a DI rifle, since it was the barrel that failed. i could see the gas tube melting down at some point tho.
+Nam Nguyen I believe you are absolutely correct. Either through heat soaking into the bolt, incorrect heat treating, or insufficient material, the material was soft enough to mushroom. As the bolt carrier started to mushroom there likely would have been more space between the bolt carrier and the piston, adding to the pistons momentum before striking the bolt carrier. Due to the small amount of material, the bolt carrier mushroomed towards the top, moving the divot upwards. The piston would be forced to the center of the divot by the impact, bending the piston rod. From a design standpoint this is a direct advantage to the internal short stroke piston of the DI system, which has the piston concentric to the boltcarrier. The force can only act on the bolt carrier in one direction.
mastalee If the mushroomed burrs had been removed, yes the rifle probably would have continued to function for a while. I imagine that the piston is captured for the most part, so it would take the piston actually bending enough to bind up in its normal path. This probably wouldn't have happened, it's more likely it would continue to mushroom over the bolt carrier at an accelerated rate until the bolt carrier bound up again against the charging handle.
Cool vid, guys. It takes guts to run a gun at over 1,000 degrees and I'm glad that AR didn't turn into a grenade on you. I used to be a huge piston fan and now most of my ARs, except two, are DGI. My SR-556 has gone over 1,500 rounds without cleaning or jamming, but I broke down and gave it a thorough cleaning. I notice that DGI ARs can run into issues at 400-500 rounds or so without cleaning, depending on the components being used. Nickel-boron BCGs work well for me, and I'm a fan of stainless steel barrels.
+SNIPING 300 actually I'm not breathing hard at all. It's just that these microphones we use are so good they can pick up a mouse farting from a mile away
Yeah, it was still a good video. Good for entertainment. Although repeatedly calling him Mr. President wasn't funny. Nobody laughed the first time, stop trying. We get it, Nixon mask.
I think it's important to note that you took longer pauses in the direct gas demo... plus I could see your breath, meaning it was probably a bit chilly during that demo as well. Idk. Just my 2 cents.
Eric says: "And they say, oh well, it's a piston AR you never have to clean it or anything like that. Yeah, they can go a little longer without being cleaned, sure they provide a little bit more reliable operation under adverse conditions. You'll get a little bit more longevity in terms of continued use in the field without maintenance but at the core, it's still the same gun." Let's make it simple - - A little longer without being cleaned (bullshit Eric, they can go a lot longer). - A little bit more reliable operation under adverse conditions. - A little bit more longevity in terms of continued use in the field without maintenance. Geezus…I'm sold. And, guess who owns a POF 416 Edge? I think your round count was 2,737? If my math is correct and it is, that's 3-times the round-count of a DI. I popped an ACOG TA01NSN on that POF 416. Is it heavier? Yes, but when all the CLP is gone and there's no gasoline and/or diesel fuel to siphon, you'll be sorry. There aren't any ultrasonic cleaners to dunk your BCG into out the field. Maybe you can rob or swap parts with Gas-Tube-Johnny to make your DI serviceable?
That would be interesting with the segmented piston providing looser tolerances and less torque. Also, would be interesting to see how their fluted barrel would hold up. It would cool faster, but might be weaker?
you guys should do a video about how much pressure/power is lost from behind the bullet when a portion of the gas goes through the gas system as opposed to if there was no redirection in the gas flow. maybe use an adjustable gas block to close off the system for a couple rounds, or compare it next to a bolt action of the same barrel length and caliber. you know.. for science or whatever.
That's pathetic. I expected a lot more from LMT, they're suppose to be a "premium" brand in the AR-15 market. That bolt carrier obviously wasn't heat treated properly (if at all) the deformation of the key clearly shows that. I've have a love/hate relationship with LMT ever since they patented their monolithic upper receiver. Mega Arms was the first or one of the first companies to offer a true monolithic upper, and they had the best mono upper on the market at the time. After the LMT patent anyone manufacturing a mono upper had to pull them from the market which pissed me off. Now LMT is selling garbage like this? Seriously LMT handle your shit!
What are you complaining about, Eric wasn’t complaining, you weren’t there, the gun held up great. These weapons are not designed to fire 800 rounds at once, no gun is. I would like to see you make a gun that can fire over 833 rounds at one time and then come back and tell us about it
LWRC, POF and PWS vs. Colt... Each ran 1500rnds using on of those crank triggers. Colt got a bit sticky but still ran. Not the same but for what it is worth to anyone. Would love to see these go head to head here!
Dude you should do a full auto with a Primary Weapon systems upper! Its piston is attached to bcg and moves near the gas block. Its gas block system is designed with maximum dwell time to reduce the harsh forces on the piston system. Would fire a tad slower but thats fine for me
This is why I will never run a short stroke piston setup. The whole system relies off smacking bolt back. Try this with a PWS or and ARAK, something that is actually a reliable piston setup. You'll probably get thousands through it before failure
It would be really interesting to use a hot load with high pressures (so supersonic) with a suppressor to see if it does any damage to the baffles too, if you can borrow that m16 lower again!
The gas system did not fail, it was the barrel being weaker. If the heavy barrel was used with the gas system, It's reasonable to assume it should have gone longer.
I had a piston driven AR T91 as service rifle here, our DS says the piston system is more reliable than the DI system, but what i think matters the most is the overall build quality of the rifle itself
warlock Yeah, that's true unless you live in a state that banned AR15 and AK47 rifles and the only preban options cost almost $2000. Regardless the Ruger mini 14 is still a nice robust classic design.
Post script- an M16 magazine loaded with 18/20 weighs 11 ounces each. 40 mags = 760 rounds = 27 1/2 pounds, or 3.3 gallons of water. In terms of kit, 20 round magazines are shorter and straight making a more compact package, with less volume; also, a lower profile in prone position, or traveling in wait-a-minute brush. It's easier to put 3 20 round mags in your pocket (18+54=72) than two 28/30 (28+56=84). That's only 12 less It isn't just the total number available, but time spent into moving to the point of contact while maintaining situational awareness; if you drop a reload, it's better to get a new one off your person without taking eyes off the threat.
I don't think it was an issue with the piston, more so the push-rod bending. I have an MR556 and the piston is contained in the gas block and the operating rod is what acts on the bolt carrier. Not sure if that upper was designed for full auto operation, as stated by the author the likelihood of using a rifle in that manner are pretty much a non-starter. Good video, wish I could get some of that sponsor ammo on the sly. Keep up the good work brother.
bdockett Maybe. It must be nice to treat an $800+ red dot as a disposable commodity like these guys do. Call me crazy, but spending even half that for a little pin-point of light doesn't make sense to me. Now a real scope, I can see spending that much for.
A very decent approach to know the meltdown point of a Fire Arm, but there is no ending to these episodes bec. when the barrier is broken, another comes in the way. Improving the fire arm will increase the amount of ammo absorption but it will "ultimately" fail on another point. In practical, such a catastrophic situation never comes, either a person dies or the fire arm. And you are the person imho, who has fired record rounds so far in a man's life. Great work.
I want to see the primary weapon system (PWS) piston AR and the patriot ordinance factory (POF) piston driven AR go head to head in a melt down. I love these melt down videos. What a way to earn a living. He'll toss in the Sig Sauer piston AR too.. That would be a cool show down. Thanks love it.
Well can't find fully automatic mil-spec g36 in US unless you know swat member who not very clever enough to let Eric borrow his g36. And if we look in the past, xm8 are direct design influent by g36(most parts are identical) , and it can't even last more than 5 magazines so i doubt g36 can go better than that.
To compare apples to apples, you need to re-do the DI gun with a HBAR barrel since that was the failure point on the DI gun and not the gas system! PS: How about a "wall-of-tannerite" video?!
You should do the same test with a P W S piston system. I think the test would turn out better because the P W S piston rod is connected to the carrier like an AK just my thoughts.
Isn't it kind of apples to oranges comparing this to a DI gun with a lightweight barrel, since the barrel is what failed by bending. You should redo the DI with a heavy barrel..
Interesting. So it looks like the DI and the Piston meltdown experiments went just about the same amount of rounds before the rifles couldn't fire any longer. So much for the superiority of the piston guns! I'll keep shooting my Colt M4 in its original DI configuration. Accuracy is better than a piston gun and as long as I have a small bottle of lube with me, I should be able to shoot as much as I want without any problems. Eric, your published experiments are outstanding! The proof is truly in the pudding, Sir, and you've served that pudding up for all to taste! Much appreciated!!!
that scope played an integral part of this test
dizkoteck product placement
Hahaha
Yeah but it looks good af
So we had a DI AR fail just above 800 rounds, and we had a good AK 47 fail just above 800 rounds, and now we have a piston AR failing just after 800 rounds. Of course all 3 guns failed for different reasons, and the DI AR was the worse failure of the three, but at about the same time all three weapons would have been out of the fight. I guess in the end it doesn't matter all that much what you pick, as long as it's a decent rifle, your odds are pretty good . Great video as always.
The POF went 2700 rounds
@@alpine9996 which one ?
Don’t forget the AK still worked after banging it on the table lol
LMT fixed the heat treat on their bolt carrier. If this was the new system I’m sure it would match the POF or better it.
@@IlmarBeekman I was curious as to what LMT said or did to fix this. They are a top tier company..
The swathes of PTSD Eric must have. He is so brave for shooting that gun, all the casings, the smell, the recoil. Oh the HUMANITY.
lol
Hillary for Prison 2016 I'm subbing because of your name
Neon I appreciate it.
Hillary for Prison 2016 Glad I could do my part.
Kyle Hills shooting guns helps calm my ptsd, i love the smell too... i like shooting without ears on... love the 5.56 crackle
In my opinion that was probably the best video for 3 reasons.
1. Steel case ammo works fine with no issues, even under full auto.
2. As you said, now manufacturers can resolve any issues with products.
3. Simply awesome to watch a gas piston system run like a champ.
Hi-point famous for #2 if you know what i mean lmao
So if you ran a thick barrel on a Di you would probably get over 1000.
On the old test, it wasn't the gas system that failed, it was the skinny barrel.
It looks like it's time for a retest.
Agree. Not an apples to apples test. Since di gun went to almost the same before barrel blew out then di is easily the winner here.
Now I want to see it done with a PWS Long Stroke upper!
Kent Sextro nahhh that would run forever loll
@@zebrastripes8514 Dont think so, but i would see that as well.
PWS uses nitrided 416r stainless for their barrels. those dont hold up in full auto fire
@@Glaudge the mod2 uses 41V50...
Fwiw I have 9500 rounds of steel through my mod2, all suppressed, and have yet to clean it. Lol
@@williamw9120 when did they change? i remember 416r on their website at one point
When is the Mosin meltdown video? :D
yes!!!
+Gungeek I don't think youtube would allow a video that long to be uploaded.
TheGamingGuardsman
There are 8 or 10 hour long videos on youtube :)
+Gungeek Scotty, I might need a few Canadians to come and help with that one!
+Gungeek Eric's shoulder would fail before the gun did... lol
I was not expecting the piston to last that long! These are by far my favorite videos from you guys!
Watching the AK, AR gas-impingement, AR piston meltdown test it was interesting that all three rifles seem to fail around the 8 minute mark and roughly similar round counts. You could make a career testing different components in each rifle to improve the results (i.e. the barrel mentioned in this video). Can't wait for the next video in this series.
I would love to see how a long stroke piston AR like the PWS would hold up to this kind of test. I would think a quality long stroke piston system would be the one to out preform the others.
Fascinating to see it lasted virtually the same amount of time as the traditional DI AR.
lf you get a chance do a melt down of a S&W Sport. I would like to see how far you can push a "budget" ar. Thanks for all your work!
Great job. This is exactly the kind of research we need to improve firearm designs. You are a scientist.
No matter how crazy you get on your videos I really think it is awesome that you always keep very strict range edict. Keep up the awesome videos.
Hey you should do a SCAR meltdown.
That would melt your wallet first.
@@NWA744 😂🤣😂🤣
Dude, a SCAR 17 meltdown! I'll donate money for that.
We need to see this test with a Primary Weapons Systems upper long stroke piston.
Or perhaps not. I'd hate to somehow be dissapointed, as my PWS seems perfect.
Oh yes! i see that too late.
Good video, no more Nixon taking temp readings please we all know its gonna be incredibly hot, he is in the way and annoying.
+MrBilly406 Not to mention that if it's off the scale, the longer that ammo sits in the chamber the more likely it is to cook off.
Leave me alone
Made me pucker. I mean, our hero is in bomb team gear and Nixon keeps standing next to a barrel that's being tested to failure (if possible) while it's being run.
I know it’s an old video but LMT had heat treat issues that caused that same issue on my piston MRP. They replaced my BCG free of charge. I’d like to see the test with the new BCG.
Huh, good to know.
We need more meltdown videos. By far my favorite of all the gun shows I watch. Keep it up!
at minute 10, i had same issue . my CMMG gas piston had failure to eject. I thought it was the extractor. luckily I has another bolt with me. when I was done. I concluded the ejector spring had stopped working. easy 8 dollar fix. I updated my other 3 rifles. Adams, POF and LWRC. the only D I rifle I have left is a Mk12 clone for precision. great video.
Awesome video, well thought out and informative.
I'd like to see an HBAR 20" barrel on a DI gun now.
I agree, since it was the barrel and not the gas system that failed in the direct impingement video, I would like to see if a di gun could go longer with this barrel.
Lmt makes these monolithic uppers and they have a 20 inch barrel for one of them. I don't think they're DI but it's still pretty sweet how you can get an lmt quality monolithic upper with a full length barrel that also isn't old-school m16a4. Eventhough I like those too because I can actually afford one and I cannot afford an lmt 😂😂😂 but maybe one day
Like to see a short H BAR barrel!
Damn I love these videos so much. Your meltdowns are by far the best. Please make one with as many weapons as you can get ahold of and especially with an original Russian AK. ^^
+bfgguns we have some fun ones planned. They take awhile to put together sometimes, because we usually have to have certain guns specifically manufactured for the meltdowns and that takes time and money.
+bfgguns an ak original would be awesome.
Nice, dass du wieder Videos machst!
+bfgguns He could just test a converted Saiga :| They did a torture test with a WASR AK and a Russian VEPR already.
+bfgguns Or a Bulgy:)
SCAR 17 meltdown would be awesome.
+Nutz4Gunz45
Pains me to think of melting down a $2800 rifle. :(
+Nutz4Gunz45 and expensive
It would be nice just to have the money for a Scar 17...
Agreed, but it's for science.
Nutz4Gunz45
It's for the kids!
11:43 total "Oh Jesus Christ" moment right there. God bless you, Barry.
Awesome video! My thoughts are that they should machine contacting surfaces of the piston rod / divot the contact point on the carrier - hence providing a guide for a repetitive contact area, while strengthening both metals. Thanks for another entertaining video!
I hope Eric and Chad will find a sacrificial AK-74 for a meltdown...
agreed
They melted down a wasr a while back
+Daniel Jones that's a AK-47, he's talking about the AK-74, aka the little brother of the 47. Debatably more comparable to a ar than a 47.
Daniel Jones The WASR was garbage... They did another meltdown with a VEPR AK and it lasted 900+ rounds.
The AK-74 shoots the 5.45x39 round, which is basically Russia's version of the .223/5.56x45 NATO used in ARs. I think an AK-74 has the potential to last longer than the AKM and AR, while possibly giving the Glock's 1,200 rd count a challenge.
+DecimationCDXX +no no I misread the original comment, thanks for not being assholes about correcting me. that is an interesting thought though, I wonder how differently it'd perform compared to the vepr-which was more relevant of a test to me because I'm not a fan of wasrs at all.
+Iraqveteran8888 I'm glad to see Eric is wearing a bit more PPE for these videos. One of these days, a stressed out gun is going to have something go catastrophically wrong on the bolt end of the gun and I'd like Eric to keep his fingers and face :)
You guys look like proper bankrobbers
A gas piston AR with full auto ?!
That's so badass ! 👍
So the question becomes: how long would the DI gun have lasted with a similar barrel in it?
730 rounds on the POF DI gun, 733 on this piston. The POF gun had a catastrophic failure, the LMT piston wasn't quite that bad, but they both failed at about the same point.
The POF-USA P416 never failed, it shot over 2,700. They couldn't get it to fail. And it was a piston with a 10.5" barrel.
It seems the DI guns fail on barrel, this LMT failed only because of the piston, i would Love to see the same LMT MRP tested with the DI setup.
@supermario75 "only because of the piston" so it only failed because a major part failure?
Legit it's a major working part that's just as significant as a barrel pop the gun isn't working anymore
I love how these videos are fun to watch and educational, Keep it up guys!
I keep hoping one of these days I will see you do "Ultimate Scar Meltdown"..... probably the coolest video you will ever do
Very nice!
Indeed.
Hi
+warlock hello
+grinc333 Thanks
Lars
lol I wish more people would get the joke on this and chime in. Every time he does this, we need to have hundreds of people pile on with their "Indeeds" and such things
That face shield really makes sense doing these, i thought it was goofy but watching that blow up thats smart
As a neophyte I'm surprised / amazed you're willing to do these tests. They've been interesting to watch, especially the Glock one. Thanks.
Seeing him standing there in an Interceptor, with a ballistic mask, firing this AR full auto...one word popped to mind.
'murica!
That's a PASGT Flak Jacket
+Mike Jones Correct.
Interesting on the failure to lock open on the last round. My friends LMT does that on occasion.
I'd like to see a delayed roller blowback such as a G3 or HK53 meltdown to see how that mechanism fairs since it has no gas tube or piston and see if that makes a difference
+Ian W. A very good idea---test rifles without gas tubes or pistons.
+Ian W. problem is that they are kind of pricey compared to an AR or an AK
Axel I hear ya loud & clear---I 'wish' I could afford an HK rifle. (I'm still working on getting an HK-VP 40!)
+Ian W. The only problem is that these aren't as modular and will certainly end in destruction of a $20,000+ gun
+Axel yt moneyzz
Thank you for the awesome video, but also thank you for the "if you haven't gotten shot yet" portion. Most people who think about gunfights don't consider that if you are using a main battle rifle, and you have expended over 100 rounds, if you haven't been shot yet, youre doing extremely well.
this LMT ran like a champ...idk what everyone is complaining about..lol...and when you add in factors other than how many rounds can be cycled in 5 minutes it's an awesome platform. The true MRP and ability to switch caliber plus superb accuracy sounds like a winner. maybe next time you're out on patrol with 1000 rds could be an issue haha.
I'd be interested to see how an upper from primary weapons systems would do in a test like this. Their piston is connected directly to the BCG so there would be no chance for it to strike it
It would be kind of neat to see you guys do a "bullet proof melt down". Build an upper with a bunch of parts that you think will make it last the longest before failure.
full auto 10/22 meltdown!!!
Congratulations on hitting 1M subscribers brother!
Very cool. The same test with an MR556 upper or a 416 upper would be fantastic!
What about a DI upper with a heavy barrel?
+Seth Wilcox I agree the test should be repeated using the same profile barrel on a DI rifle, since it was the barrel that failed. i could see the gas tube melting down at some point tho.
I feel like the bolt let out and started mushrooming and led the piston go to the path of least resistance.
THIS
+Nam Nguyen I believe you are absolutely correct.
Either through heat soaking into the bolt, incorrect heat treating, or insufficient material, the material was soft enough to mushroom. As the bolt carrier started to mushroom there likely would have been more space between the bolt carrier and the piston, adding to the pistons momentum before striking the bolt carrier. Due to the small amount of material, the bolt carrier mushroomed towards the top, moving the divot upwards. The piston would be forced to the center of the divot by the impact, bending the piston rod.
From a design standpoint this is a direct advantage to the internal short stroke piston of the DI system, which has the piston concentric to the boltcarrier. The force can only act on the bolt carrier in one direction.
+Nam Nguyen That is very smart, your probably right.
+NavySturmGewehr so, if the bolt where the piston was hitting the carrier, it could of gone on longer maybe
mastalee If the mushroomed burrs had been removed, yes the rifle probably would have continued to function for a while. I imagine that the piston is captured for the most part, so it would take the piston actually bending enough to bind up in its normal path. This probably wouldn't have happened, it's more likely it would continue to mushroom over the bolt carrier at an accelerated rate until the bolt carrier bound up again against the charging handle.
have you run an H&K 416 to the failure point?
Well H&K dont like selling military grade Weapons to civiliens as i have heard,and getting one of those are also a pain.
Albert Druett Its not that they don't like it, it's illegal to import military grade weapons.
that be expensive as hell.
they can be brought in but only for military/law enforcement purposes. my department has H&K 416s.
ridgel7 they make a a semi version now
You feed this one fast direct impingement Ar , listen to your breathing, I watch all your videos & love them , very much information! Thanks for them
Cool vid, guys. It takes guts to run a gun at over 1,000 degrees and I'm glad that AR didn't turn into a grenade on you. I used to be a huge piston fan and now most of my ARs, except two, are DGI. My SR-556 has gone over 1,500 rounds without cleaning or jamming, but I broke down and gave it a thorough cleaning. I notice that DGI ARs can run into issues at 400-500 rounds or so without cleaning, depending on the components being used. Nickel-boron BCGs work well for me, and I'm a fan of stainless steel barrels.
at 9:10 HEAVY BREATHING lol I was so scared when Ray went out there it could have cooked off and hurt him
+SNIPING 300 actually I'm not breathing hard at all. It's just that these microphones we use are so good they can pick up a mouse farting from a mile away
+Iraqveteran8888 Yeah, that was annoying. I had to turn the volume way way down.
it was still a good video though and I think he should make more meltdown videos, like with the m60 that would be awesome!
Yeah, it was still a good video. Good for entertainment. Although repeatedly calling him Mr. President wasn't funny. Nobody laughed the first time, stop trying. We get it, Nixon mask.
+556bc it was pretty dang funny you just don't have a sense of humor
I think the carrier failed causing the piston to bend.
I think it's important to note that you took longer pauses in the direct gas demo... plus I could see your breath, meaning it was probably a bit chilly during that demo as well. Idk. Just my 2 cents.
it doesn't matter how cold it is outside when the barrel is 1300°
+logan smith yeah it does
I love how you guys put an optic on it without much intent to use it! ;)
Eric says: "And they say, oh well, it's a piston AR you never have to clean it or anything like that. Yeah, they can go a little longer without being cleaned, sure they provide a little bit more reliable operation under adverse conditions. You'll get a little bit more longevity in terms of continued use in the field without maintenance but at the core, it's still the same gun."
Let's make it simple -
- A little longer without being cleaned (bullshit Eric, they can go a lot longer).
- A little bit more reliable operation under adverse conditions.
- A little bit more longevity in terms of continued use in the field without maintenance.
Geezus…I'm sold. And, guess who owns a POF 416 Edge? I think your round count was 2,737? If my math is correct and it is, that's 3-times the round-count of a DI. I popped an ACOG TA01NSN on that POF 416. Is it heavier? Yes, but when all the CLP is gone and there's no gasoline and/or diesel fuel to siphon, you'll be sorry. There aren't any ultrasonic cleaners to dunk your BCG into out the field. Maybe you can rob or swap parts with Gas-Tube-Johnny to make your DI serviceable?
I'd like to see a SCAR meltdown :D
+FollowMeInfantry Too expensive lol
JustARandomChannelName
I know :(
Do an LWRC AR15 piston meltdown!
That would be interesting with the segmented piston providing looser tolerances and less torque. Also, would be interesting to see how their fluted barrel would hold up. It would cool faster, but might be weaker?
+USER 422 yeah I want to see that twist fluted barrel how it will hold up with all that full auto abuse but fully auot is never healthy firearms
Go check the test results of an LWRC rifle on TH-cam and come back to me
What did the guys at LMT (Lewis machine and tool) say about the problem???
+Havilah Gold Would be interesting to know what they had to say.
+Havilah Gold Its been a month and a half so i hope that they would have said something by now.
you guys should do a video about how much pressure/power is lost from behind the bullet when a portion of the gas goes through the gas system as opposed to if there was no redirection in the gas flow. maybe use an adjustable gas block to close off the system for a couple rounds, or compare it next to a bolt action of the same barrel length and caliber. you know.. for science or whatever.
What more could you ask for than 6 or 7 minutes listening to Eric breath! ;)
That's pathetic. I expected a lot more from LMT, they're suppose to be a "premium" brand in the AR-15 market. That bolt carrier obviously wasn't heat treated properly (if at all) the deformation of the key clearly shows that. I've have a love/hate relationship with LMT ever since they patented their monolithic upper receiver. Mega Arms was the first or one of the first companies to offer a true monolithic upper, and they had the best mono upper on the market at the time. After the LMT patent anyone manufacturing a mono upper had to pull them from the market which pissed me off. Now LMT is selling garbage like this? Seriously LMT handle your shit!
What are you talking about lmaoo
These guns are not made to shoot these many rounds at once or in one sitting
What are you complaining about, Eric wasn’t complaining, you weren’t there, the gun held up great. These weapons are not designed to fire 800 rounds at once, no gun is. I would like to see you make a gun that can fire over 833 rounds at one time and then come back and tell us about it
Why did the Melt Downs have stopped?
They're the most successful videos.
Ammo prices
Maybe it was the light, but i swear there was some brass ammo in there
LWRC, POF and PWS vs. Colt... Each ran 1500rnds using on of those crank triggers. Colt got a bit sticky but still ran. Not the same but for what it is worth to anyone. Would love to see these go head to head here!
Dude you should do a full auto with a Primary Weapon systems upper! Its piston is attached to bcg and moves near the gas block. Its gas block system is designed with maximum dwell time to reduce the harsh forces on the piston system. Would fire a tad slower but thats fine for me
At least you can go bolt action for awhile even if this does occur.
This is why I will never run a short stroke piston setup. The whole system relies off smacking bolt back. Try this with a PWS or and ARAK, something that is actually a reliable piston setup. You'll probably get thousands through it before failure
Well now your going to have to do the DI gun with the H Bar barrel. lol
Hello from Rhode Island Eric. Love your videos.
That's a surprisingly nice low-profile forestock for a piston AR.
Nice to see that becoming an option.
FN FAL meltdown next?
SUPPRESSOR MELTDOWN PLEASE
It would be really interesting to use a hot load with high pressures (so supersonic) with a suppressor to see if it does any damage to the baffles too, if you can borrow that m16 lower again!
The gas system did not fail, it was the barrel being weaker.
If the heavy barrel was used with the gas system, It's reasonable to assume it should have gone longer.
+archangel20031 This.
+archangel20031 at least until the gas tube burst, which, even with standard barrel, it's a toss up which will burst first.
+eric matthews
Funny that they use 304 when 316 would be much better.
I had a piston driven AR T91 as service rifle here, our DS says the piston system is more reliable than the DI system, but what i think matters the most is the overall build quality of the rifle itself
I thought i was listening to darth vador soon as the failure happened with that heavy ass breathing !!!💯😂
I'll stick to Stoner's DI design. Never was a fan of the piston gas system on the AR15.
I thought I was the only one
+Steve Wiswell Me too buddy,ill di anyday.
Any word from LMT yet? I'm not on the email list.
Ruger 10/22 auto test anytime soon?
+John Doe 22 ammo is still unobtainable.
agree they need a 22lr melt down
+[MsR] Master if you're stuck under a rock maybe. I could go around town and pickup thousands of rounds right now.
Eric Fenske its a joke
Wow, Eric shooting like Rambo while looking and sounding like Jason great video, keep up the good work 💪🏾
What did LMT say about this?? This deserves a rematch if that was just a faulty carrier.
should have tested the almighty Adam's Arms piston system! I hear that name dropped all the time in the DI vs Piston debate.
The did 540 rds
Ruger Mini 14 Next
Eww
warlock
What's wrong with the mini 14 ? It's a copy of a rifle that helped us win WWII.
+Prepare2Survive For the price you could do a lot better
warlock
Yeah, that's true unless you live in a state that banned AR15 and AK47 rifles and the only preban options cost almost $2000. Regardless the Ruger mini 14 is still a nice robust classic design.
+Prepare2Survive It is a great design. Do you live in NY?
And HBAR barrel on a DI gun would outperform this without breaking a sweat...
+murpheysmuskets likely so I'm afraid. That just means we have to melt one of those too!
+Iraqveteran8888 I agree
+Iraqveteran8888 I'm okay with that, so I won't say you shouldn't. Go for it Mr. President!
+Iraqveteran8888 Please do it!!!! :)
+Iraqveteran8888 The gas tube is probably the next weakest link.
Post script- an M16 magazine loaded with 18/20 weighs 11 ounces each. 40 mags = 760 rounds = 27 1/2 pounds, or 3.3 gallons of water. In terms of kit, 20 round magazines are shorter and straight making a more compact package, with less volume; also, a lower profile in prone position, or traveling in wait-a-minute brush. It's easier to put 3 20 round mags in your pocket (18+54=72) than two 28/30 (28+56=84). That's only 12 less It isn't just the total number available, but time spent into moving to the point of contact while maintaining situational awareness; if you drop a reload, it's better to get a new one off your person without taking eyes off the threat.
I don't think it was an issue with the piston, more so the push-rod bending. I have an MR556 and the piston is contained in the gas block and the operating rod is what acts on the bolt carrier. Not sure if that upper was designed for full auto operation, as stated by the author the likelihood of using a rifle in that manner are pretty much a non-starter.
Good video, wish I could get some of that sponsor ammo on the sly. Keep up the good work brother.
You're killing me eric. I need a gun gripe. I dont care if its about farts. I just need to hear you complain about something:(
Am I the only one who finds it silly to put any kind of optic on the gun for these melt down videos, let alone an expensive one like aimpoint?
i had the same thought
+b scar That was a hard test for the optic itself. Would be nice to know how well the rifle/optic held zero.
+b scar Literally the first thing I thought when I saw it on there.
bdockett
Maybe. It must be nice to treat an $800+ red dot as a disposable commodity like these guys do. Call me crazy, but spending even half that for a little pin-point of light doesn't make sense to me.
Now a real scope, I can see spending that much for.
There prob. Testing the optics as well.
can you do an m1a please
A very decent approach to know the meltdown point of a Fire Arm, but there is no ending to these episodes bec. when the barrier is broken, another comes in the way. Improving the fire arm will increase the amount of ammo absorption but it will "ultimately" fail on another point. In practical, such a catastrophic situation never comes, either a person dies or the fire arm. And you are the person imho, who has fired record rounds so far in a man's life. Great work.
I want to see the primary weapon system (PWS) piston AR and the patriot ordinance factory (POF) piston driven AR go head to head in a melt down. I love these melt down videos. What a way to earn a living. He'll toss in the Sig Sauer piston AR too.. That would be a cool show down. Thanks love it.
i want to see G36 meltdown. Its a high quality product. So i want to know how many rounds it eat.
+MSKommando polymer trunnion has rumors for melting under many rounds and having massive poi shift, I'm not sure how true that is though.
+RAGETREE We just need to test it! I hope Iraqveteran8888 do a G36 Meltdown.
Well can't find fully automatic mil-spec g36 in US unless you know swat member who not very clever enough to let Eric borrow his g36. And if we look in the past, xm8 are direct design influent by g36(most parts are identical) , and it can't even last more than 5 magazines so i doubt g36 can go better than that.
People in that area must think there is a war going on
To compare apples to apples, you need to re-do the DI gun with a HBAR barrel since that was the failure point on the DI gun and not the gas system!
PS: How about a "wall-of-tannerite" video?!
You should do the same test with a P W S piston system. I think the test would turn out better because the P W S piston rod is connected to the carrier like an AK just my thoughts.
I'd like to see you guys do an LWRC IC carbine since you've done an POF416 and LMT before.
Isn't it kind of apples to oranges comparing this to a DI gun with a lightweight barrel, since the barrel is what failed by bending. You should redo the DI with a heavy barrel..
HK G3 or G36 meltdown? :D
Nixon is really out of shape
Can you do a musket melt down?
Interesting. So it looks like the DI and the Piston meltdown experiments went just about the same amount of rounds before the rifles couldn't fire any longer. So much for the superiority of the piston guns! I'll keep shooting my Colt M4 in its original DI configuration. Accuracy is better than a piston gun and as long as I have a small bottle of lube with me, I should be able to shoot as much as I want without any problems. Eric, your published experiments are outstanding! The proof is truly in the pudding, Sir, and you've served that pudding up for all to taste! Much appreciated!!!