Lol , I used to live in So. Calif. and I know a few of the mopar stocker guys in So. Calif, and I recall the empty batteries way back in 1992 or so . The camshaft is a lot more trick than just being stock size . I have used the stocker cams in bracket cars and people all thought I was lying about what size it was . We ran a 340 small block with a cam out of a f/stock 360 dart sport , it was really impressive . I tried a max wedge cam in a 440 with ported 906 heads , and a 1150 dominator , it ran 10.60's at 126 mph . That car was pretty heavy with a heavy 300 lb driver too , I'd guess 4000 lbs . I love the stocker class but could never afford to run one . I also remember Jody Lang's name from way back , did he live in So. Calif. , or was it just when he went to Pomona that I heard the name ?
I’m soo impressed with this class and the sheer ingenuity and cleverness. I love your channel and all of the information you provide. I sent my 383 to the engine builder last week with a budget of $7000, my goal is to run a 12.99 here in Colorado with that budget. I know it’s not much money, but it’s all I could come up with. I’m so interested to see if I had that money and put it in a 440 Would it be easier? Or even a small block with that budget? I trust this engine builder. He said it’s going to be tight with that budget, I might have to use E 85 and that’s OK with me. I don’t think seven grand will cover aluminum heads and everything else entailed so I’m going to use some mill down 906s with higher compression. Just wondered what you thought of this situation. I appreciate your input if you don’t mind thanks.
thank you for reply ! love your car ! you're doing great ! Can you share cam specs. ? duration and lobe separation ? Is your short block stock ? I know you can't shave the heads, but did you deck block to .000 deck height ?
Duration @ .050" intake .274 exhaust .270 .510 lift 109 separation are the measurements of the last cam that I was running. I destroyed that cam, along with most of the engine a year or so ago. It was for the low compression (11:1) 426 originally built by Dan Dvorak. I'm currently waiting for a high compression (12.5:1) bullet that will have a totally different cam designed by Steve Wann (who is building it for me). The short block is based on a 413 industrial block. Aside from that there is absolutely nothing Stock about it! I don't know about the heads except to say that if you deck them too much you'll start running into combustion chamber volume issues. Don Little did my heads for me.
As far as heads go, I had a hard time finding 84, 305 heads! Let alone parts from the 60's. People tell me Stock is glorified bracket racing. I say yep! I'm there for the glorified part. Setting records, head up runs, performance based qualifying, and the challenge of building a "fast car". You explained it pretty well. Jody is one of the best. So is Toby Lang. I like wagons to. Nice video.
What would you say the difference is between this and say Super stock and comp eliminator? Personally though, I think cars are expensive to race. Cheaper to pickup up a sportsman dragster roller (which can be had for virtually next to nothing on places like racingjunk) Put a driveline in it and go.. It seems the classes that are meant to be affordable end up with so many rules put on them that they go the other way.
I think Comp is more expensive and perhaps a bit more complicated, Super Stock is basically the same but faster. I agree with you that it is expensive to race cars, a lot of this is due to modern safety stuff, which doesn't really change no matter what class you choose. Of course it is also expensive to fish or golf or ride motorcycles. You make your choice and you put your money down...
@@gaffojones What trans do you use/ I heard the GM Turbo 200 is popular due to it's light weight and lighter rotating mass than the PG or T400 or TorqueFlite , some were saying it was good for 2 tenths better in a run
I can only run a Mopar trans in my Mopar for Stock. Lots of us run 904s but I use a 727 because they are way cheaper and last a lot longer. Those GM metric 200s are remarkably light but also fragile.
how much gear do you run ? what size converter works with a stock engine ? your stock lift cam has 276 degrees @ .050 ? I would say you are over 500 hp ! roller rockers and solid lifters are allowed now . nothing stock about a stock eliminator ! it's very expensive !
"Icons of The Sport", yea! At '71 Springnationals, Dallas, Tx., a Pro Stock (G&R) ICON, farm team, beat themselves at TEARDOWN😮 Sandblasted Intake & Exhaust ports😮 All that for 1/2 fender "win"😮 His cylinder head was compared to others of Original Texture. NHRA DQd, "push it out in pieces"🤢 PS: Dave Bortmans "Behemoth" won Stock Eliminator
It seems to me that the money spent to blueprint a stock motor, but not allowed use of upgrade parts makes the venture a conflicting pursuit. You are trying to built more power but can't use parts that can support the power. It seems the 60's concept of Stock was to bring an unaltered car and see what within each class was the fastest car regardless of manufacture. But it seems the factories got involved, you had Al Corda and his aluminum front sheet metal etc.. Plus the "stated" HP being a factor in class designation was always ambiguous. Speaking of 2 bbl. cars I remember about 1976 at the Irwindale Winternational warm-ups there was a '61 Chevy that idled at about 4,000 RPM. They had air bleeding in the brake booster and PCV systems and ran the carb extra rich. This effectively boosted the CFM way beyond the factory 2 bbl. Surprised you didn't speak about the cheater cams. Likely those had a fast ramp profile similar to a modern roller cam.
Currently we are allowed to run aftermarket cranks, rods, pistons, fasteners, valve gear, and gaskets that will take the weak links out of the engine. Inevitably the great equalizer is the nine inch tires that we are required to run although they are pretty good these days. Cheater cams have always been part of the deal and they give stockers that unique sound. I believe the day is coming when the NHRA lets us all run rollers and I’m not sure how I feel about that. What concerns me the most is the untapped potential cheating by the white lab coat guys working on the brand new stuff-like plugging the blind spot warning equipment into the ignition system for example, or the telemetry already built into every new car repurposed to win drag races. If you think about it the possibilities are myriad. A few years ago we had a Belvedere H/SA car with a 383 that was required to run a tiny little 525 cam AFB . We sent it off to Dean Oliver with ten hundred dollar bills an d I swear that carb ran about as fast as an 850 Holley when we got it back! Thanks for your response, maybe we’ll see you at the track sometime.
He clearly meant that it was the Chrysler corporation’s premiere performance engine. That being said I’d argue the max wedge is still a better engine than the 409.
Excellent!
Thanks for making this video, I’ve watched stock and super stock for years but never understood how it works.
Thanks, I agree with you. Would be nice to have a tv show of stock/super stock. For me it's the best class and nicer cars!!
Enjoyed your presentation...keep it up Mr Steel Wagon..
Lol , I used to live in So. Calif. and I know a few of the mopar stocker guys in So. Calif, and I recall the empty batteries way back in 1992 or so . The camshaft is a lot more trick than just being stock size . I have used the stocker cams in bracket cars and people all thought I was lying about what size it was . We ran a 340 small block with a cam out of a f/stock 360 dart sport , it was really impressive . I tried a max wedge cam in a 440 with ported 906 heads , and a 1150 dominator , it ran 10.60's at 126 mph . That car was pretty heavy with a heavy 300 lb driver too , I'd guess 4000 lbs . I love the stocker class but could never afford to run one . I also remember Jody Lang's name from way back , did he live in So. Calif. , or was it just when he went to Pomona that I heard the name ?
I’m soo impressed with this class and the sheer ingenuity and cleverness. I love your channel and all of the information you provide. I sent my 383 to the engine builder last week with a budget of $7000, my goal is to run a 12.99 here in Colorado with that budget. I know it’s not much money, but it’s all I could come up with. I’m so interested to see if I had that money and put it in a 440 Would it be easier? Or even a small block with that budget? I trust this engine builder. He said it’s going to be tight with that budget, I might have to use E 85 and that’s OK with me. I don’t think seven grand will cover aluminum heads and everything else entailed so I’m going to use some mill down 906s with higher compression. Just wondered what you thought of this situation. I appreciate your input if you don’t mind thanks.
Always wanted to run stock eliminator but never had the funds, currently looking for a fwd mopar to convert to rwd and get back into bracket racing
thank you for reply ! love your car ! you're doing great ! Can you share cam specs. ? duration and lobe separation ? Is your short block stock ? I know you can't shave the heads, but did you deck block to .000 deck height ?
Duration @ .050" intake .274 exhaust .270 .510 lift 109 separation are the measurements of the last cam that I was running. I destroyed that cam, along with most of the engine a year or so ago. It was for the low compression (11:1) 426 originally built by Dan Dvorak. I'm currently waiting for a high compression (12.5:1) bullet that will have a totally different cam designed by Steve Wann (who is building it for me). The short block is based on a 413 industrial block. Aside from that there is absolutely nothing Stock about it! I don't know about the heads except to say that if you deck them too much you'll start running into combustion chamber volume issues. Don Little did my heads for me.
Performace based eliminator, Big bucks today,great explanation
Thanks!
Appreciate the video. Thank you 😊
As far as heads go, I had a hard time finding 84, 305 heads! Let alone parts from the 60's. People tell me Stock is glorified bracket racing. I say yep! I'm there for the glorified part. Setting records, head up runs, performance based qualifying, and the challenge of building a "fast car". You explained it pretty well. Jody is one of the best. So is Toby Lang. I like wagons to. Nice video.
Thanks!
What would you say the difference is between this and say Super stock and comp eliminator?
Personally though, I think cars are expensive to race. Cheaper to pickup up a sportsman dragster roller (which can be had for virtually next to nothing on places like racingjunk) Put a driveline in it and go.. It seems the classes that are meant to be affordable end up with so many rules put on them that they go the other way.
I think Comp is more expensive and perhaps a bit more complicated, Super Stock is basically the same but faster. I agree with you that it is expensive to race cars, a lot of this is due to modern safety stuff, which doesn't really change no matter what class you choose. Of course it is also expensive to fish or golf or ride motorcycles. You make your choice and you put your money down...
@@gaffojones What trans do you use/ I heard the GM Turbo 200 is popular due to it's light weight and lighter rotating mass than the PG or T400 or TorqueFlite , some were saying it was good for 2 tenths better in a run
I can only run a Mopar trans in my Mopar for Stock. Lots of us run 904s but I use a 727 because they are way cheaper and last a lot longer. Those GM metric 200s are remarkably light but also fragile.
Very informative thanks
Thanks!
I know a guy that has shelves of max heads....
Stock eliminator is about diversity .
How do you get one of Jody Lang shirts?
email me gaffo@wagonsofsteel.com
how much gear do you run ? what size converter works with a stock engine ? your stock lift cam has 276 degrees @ .050 ? I would say you are over 500 hp ! roller rockers and solid lifters are allowed now . nothing stock about a stock eliminator ! it's very expensive !
For gears we run 4.89s or 4.56s. We run a 9” converter.
"Icons of The Sport", yea!
At '71 Springnationals, Dallas, Tx., a Pro Stock (G&R) ICON, farm team, beat themselves at TEARDOWN😮
Sandblasted Intake & Exhaust ports😮
All that for 1/2 fender "win"😮
His cylinder head was compared to others of Original Texture.
NHRA DQd, "push it out in pieces"🤢
PS:
Dave Bortmans "Behemoth" won Stock Eliminator
You are cool !
Can those shirts be purchased?
Email me gaffo@wagonsofsteel.com
P.S., are you printing up shirts for Jody? 😎🥃
Yup.
It seems to me that the money spent to blueprint a stock motor, but not allowed use of upgrade parts makes the venture a conflicting pursuit. You are trying to built more power but can't use parts that can support the power. It seems the 60's concept of Stock was to bring an unaltered car and see what within each class was the fastest car regardless of manufacture. But it seems the factories got involved, you had Al Corda and his aluminum front sheet metal etc.. Plus the "stated" HP being a factor in class designation was always ambiguous.
Speaking of 2 bbl. cars I remember about 1976 at the Irwindale Winternational warm-ups there was a '61 Chevy that idled at about 4,000 RPM. They had air bleeding in the brake booster and PCV systems and ran the carb extra rich. This effectively boosted the CFM way beyond the factory 2 bbl.
Surprised you didn't speak about the cheater cams. Likely those had a fast ramp profile similar to a modern roller cam.
Currently we are allowed to run aftermarket cranks, rods, pistons, fasteners, valve gear, and gaskets that will take the weak links out of the engine. Inevitably the great equalizer is the nine inch tires that we are required to run although they are pretty good these days. Cheater cams have always been part of the deal and they give stockers that unique sound. I believe the day is coming when the NHRA lets us all run rollers and I’m not sure how I feel about that.
What concerns me the most is the untapped potential cheating by the white lab coat guys working on the brand new stuff-like plugging the blind spot warning equipment into the ignition system for example, or the telemetry already built into every new car repurposed to win drag races. If you think about it the possibilities are myriad.
A few years ago we had a Belvedere H/SA car with a 383 that was required to run a tiny little 525 cam AFB . We sent it off to Dean Oliver with ten hundred dollar bills an d I swear that carb ran about as fast as an 850 Holley when we got it back!
Thanks for your response, maybe we’ll see you at the track sometime.
Rather watch stock and superstock all day some good explanations
The max wedgie the premeire high performance engine from 62-64????? I know several 409 owners that can prove otherwise.
He clearly meant that it was the Chrysler corporation’s premiere performance engine. That being said I’d argue the max wedge is still a better engine than the 409.
@@ryan_isherwood That's an argument that you would lose.
Oki dok Bill🤙