Pulling the Prop Shaft and Cutless Bearing in the Water
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ค. 2023
- The most challenging jobs you take on are also the most rewarding.
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Hi doug i am an engineer specialized in water lubricated propulsions systems. I have encountered this phenomenon a few times. The sound you are hearing should be stick-slip due to the sticky nature of the rubber. This is normal and should go away after commissioning of the bearing. As long as the bearing clearance is correct you should be fine. I would recommend hoever to proceed carefully and ensure that the bearing has forced water flow to cool the surface during running in. greets and good luck from the Netherlands
When I was still in the Merchant Marine twenty + years ago we used to do a run up the Mississippi past New Orleans once a week delivering (wet rock) phosphate to Uncle Sam's and then back down to Tampa. That river silt got into everything. It would clog the flush valves on the toilets partially foul our cooling water systems. We couldn't wait to get back into the Gulf again.
When scraping the hull, put some cotton balls in your ears. They allow water to pass so they will equalize but a great barrier from barnacles. You don’t want one of those bastards in your ear, they latch in to your ear drum and you will experience a new kind of pain. If you do end up with one in, beer in your ear will get them to release and come out. Ask me how I know..
Our water for the cutlass’s comes off the raw water going to the engine. The water goes in just behind the packing and is pushed through the prop tube and out the rear cutlass. We just replaced our two cutlass’s, 3.5” x 17’ prop shafts (two sections), and prop, but on the hard. This is in a 68 ton vessel powered by a 671 Detroit. I can supply you with pictures if needed.
I had the same situation after changing Volvo's dripless shaft on my 25ft sailboat. Cutlass bearing, which was not replaced but with really low hours, started squeaking after getting back from the dry dock. That happened because this time the shaft was positioned forward for a half of an inch so the part of the shaft which was not perfectly clean made that sound inside the cutlass bearing. I remember I used to put very small amount of grease into it occasionally. At first, I only had it with the first minute in gear, but after around 30 engine hours, the sound totally disappeared.
In your case, the cutlass bearing was displaced so you are running your new cutlass bearing on the proper place on the shaft, but not as clean as where the old bearing used to be.
It looks like you will need a flange end Cutlass Bearing to keep it from walking it way into the bearing shaft.
Cut a key hole on the flange and screw a key pin using the set screw holes to hold the key tab in place. That will keep the cutlass bearing from spinning. No under walter welding or drilling needed.
Back when I was a steely-eyed missile man, making rocket motors, I lived and died by the Parker 'O' ring datasheets and machining guides!
I think the squeak is the rubber cutless bearing too tight on the shaft or the bearing is misaligned to the shaft. I don't know your prop shaft size but for example a 2" shaft needs 0.006" to 0.012" diametrical clearance based on USN code or ABYC states 0.010". A seal and cutless bearing flush:- prevents the dead zone by the seal forming an increased saturated salt solution which can damage the seal, prevents debris entering the cutless bearing, removes entraped air associated with long, or inclined shafts or boats lowered into the water slightly stern up that can lead to dry seal running. 6 gpm flush seems a lot
Very impressive you got that done in the water.
Machinist here. Those grub screws against the bearing will easily distort it. Even with light force. Maybe it doesn't matter.
Sounds like a typical new cutless bearing to me, but, yes, you WANT that water pump helping.
Pneumatic ratchets and screwdrivers work underwater and speed up work. You can also use small lifting balloons to make the propeller shaft weightless and find the right angle more easily. 🙂
Hydraulic tools work even better and they're sealed so they should hold up better in the water, as long as you have the flow.
On your dripless bearing, there should be an air line from the carbon ring and a point above the waterline. If not air keeps water from cooling the carbon bearing and steel ring on the shaft. This can cause a squealing noise and considerable heat where the steel ring faces the carbon surface. I didn't see any such line in the video. That was one tough job..
Makes me miss commercial diving. Really enjoy these in water repair videos!
Next time, I suggest you experiment with a sewer test plug, the kind you pressurize with bicycle pump. They have various sizes for different diameter pipes.
That would be a good idea, especially since there is compressed air right there.
Good call, I had to install a gate post and it was in line with an old clay pipe line.
My Dad went and got a plumbers drain stopper. they expand a soft rubber bung. stopped the water so I could fit the post ( steel) still holding the gate 15 yrs on
a piece of wood would work as well, its swells with the water
@@taylorwso Do you think they have time for it to swell....tick tock...the boat is flooding lol
@@taylorwso You want to be able to pull it out afterwards. Once the wood is swollen, you would have to break it to get it out.
I remember when we did the original install on the pad before it went to the water and it was a nightmare than, can't even imagine what yawl went through underwater...Beautifully did despite all the little crawly critters in face and ears...Nice recovery Boss and Crew!!!
Y'all need to meander down and get aboard Bart
I used to have that same squeak on my old inboard. It would squeak motoring forward at idle speed but as soon as the prop started pushing it went away. Noise was more prevalent going out, not noticeable coming in. I figured it was just a sweet spot on the cutlass bearing.
now this was an underwater repair worth watching. not an easy project is an understatement.
plus very vell film and edit of the whole thing.
Love the use of air tools underwater!
That bearing being back in shift tube and not at end i wonder if that was causing the blading rubbing issue. It gave the shaft enough bounce at its end to vibrate. Not sure if i put that in words right. Sounds better in my head. Lol
You’re probably right.
I'm surprised by how much ... stuff is growing on your boat.
If you race boats, scrubbing the bottom before race day is one of the chores.
I think that is just because the boat is small enough to not need anti-fowling paint. Just go into harbor and weight for low tide.
@@jbstandsforjasonborne3847 Yeah, maybe. But I watch other "boat channels" and see much smaller boats than SV Seeker applying (and re-applying) anti-fouling, especially if they are in warm waters. So, I don't think they skip it below a certain hull-length. And I'm not sure your solution of intentionally running your vessel aground is the best option. The barnacles and plants won'd die during one low tide, they'd have to be chipped / pressure washed off. And for a hull the size of Seeker's that seems like a lot of work. I know some jurisdictions restrict stuff like copper and other additives, not to mention the cost. But Seeker hasn't been afloat all that long, so I just was surprised by the amount and size of the growth.
You buy that paint for $300 a gallon. You would not have that problem as bad. But that was only on a 32 ft. All about money! What I don't have anymore. Pay your taxes. internal revenue Service will take everything you have. Lol
@@TheDanielsherer Doug isn't cleaning the hull like he should be in such warm waters. Florida is well known for having crazy amounts of marine growth on anything that is exposed to saltwater(tons of fertilizer run off doesn't help either). He should be cleaning the hull every two or three weeks and you can tell he hasn't been doing that.
Hi Doug , at the end I just thought that I had not seen a water injector on your shaft log and I was going to say something . Then you spoke of it. Well done. We have always used a forced water lube of all of our long shaft tubes on large trawlers we built . Sea Ray uses them also in the past for heat and lube on pocket drives as they are in a negative pressure zone of the seal area .
Cutlass bearings require water flow down the shaft log. Otherwise they wear prematurely. the coolant water discharge off the transmission is typically used.
Great job on the removal and reinstall!!! Love seeing the inspection scraper make an appearance!.
My vote on the source of the noise is the light surface oxidation upon the shaft surface. It increases the surface area exponentially, and is much rougher and harder than most realize. It may work off with friction and water flush. Could all also consider installing a grease zerk in the location. Time will tell the story. I Love watching the adventures. The air drill use I guessed as I watching. Such fun, wish I could have been there. Stay safe!
Congrats Guy's on hammering on the bearing. the sound may wear-in after a while.. what a job doing-it under water..
My guess for the squeak is the combo of the light rust film and the tight fit of the shaft in the bearing. Amazing job guys. You have finally reached the point of expert underwater prop mechanics. Have a great weekend.
Makes sense!
Congrats Doug! Hell of an achievement there. Must have been a knackering day! Brilliant work and fair play to all the camera work both in boat and underwater. So amazing you can take us with you and do all that work! 🙌🙌
I’m not very nautical aside from the occasional harpoon being tossed at me, or people trying to roll me back into the water at the beach… but the idea of water pouring into my boat through a hole in the bottom freaks the heck out of me. You guys are working as if there’s no concern, and I’m watching this video white knuckled while waiting for the “uh-oh” part where you announce that your sinking because the pump died or you can’t get the shaft to seal. Very nice teamwork!!! I’m always impressed with how you folks improvise to make something work! Thank you for the videos, and Stay Safe!!! 😎👍🇺🇸
In the UK we generally use a greased stern tube with a packing gland.. which stops silt etc... on my boat there is also adjustment for A frame alignment.
It never ceases to amaze me that not only did you build this boat, but you built it with maintainability in mind. To have done this repair at sea, just blows my mind. SV Seeker is truly a once in a generation accomplishment!
Amazing! Never seen or heard of anyone taking out the shaft and or the cutless bearing under water before. Well done!!
Calculating how long it takes to remove screws, lift something, take down another part, All the while having a pre calculated amount of water coming in is real planning. All acceptable when each step is carried out in order and without forgetting about an unforeseen step or problem. Knowing your boat inside and out is something most just don't. Talent like that went out with the Saturn 5 space program.
Hey Doug. Love the videos you keep me inspired. Sorry if this has already been mentioned but I have a couple ideas that could solve your migration problem. You could build a really tall fence, wait... no... not that. 1)you could drill and tap a couple holes forward of the cutlass bearing and install a couple bolts that stick through the bearing support tube and stops the cutlass bearing from migrating forward. 2) you could drill holes into the cutlass bearing brass ,where you have the set screws, so that you are not relying on friction to hold the cutlass bearing, install bolts that will fit into the holes and tighten on the support, not the cutlass bearing. Now to get a good fit you will need to tap that hole in the cutlass bearing but that shouldn't be an issue for you. You have earned your underwater drilling badge so these should be easy to install anytime.
Andy is a godsend, love watching you guys work, thanks for the content
Absolutely amazing Video Doug and crew…
Thank you for all the great videos. All of you are amazing. What an amazing journey.
You need a bearing on both sides of the pipe
This has all the makings of a grand adventure. Good challenging work, done well and with an amiable sense of perspective and humor
You guys are having way to much fun 😂
my 40-foot sailboat, with a 30mm stainless shaft also has water forced through the cutlass bearing. I always thought it was silly, but now after watching this video I'm not so sure that's silly.
Definitely not an easy/simple operation to pull a cutlass bearing in the water on such a big boat, nice job. Great filming.
The Quartermaster*
Great video! I remember the first time I replaced my dripless shaft seal in the water. When I loosened the seal (after loosening coupling), I almost had a stroke when the water came in! I slipped that new shaft seal in, slid the 37:43 shaft into the coupling, and tightened everything up. Thank God the water stopped! What you did was incredible!
Fabulous video!
Dont quote me but I think the shaft is supposed to be .015" under the cutless, it should wear into comfort in no time, and enclosed stern tubes always have intakes that catch water to lube the cutless. Impressive feat. Well done!!
I've watched you guys for years and thought. " when they get this boat done it's going to turn into a sailing channel." Boy, was I wrong lol. You all are excellent mechanics, I've learned a lot here and have 20 years in the trade myself. Well done!!!
I had much the same sound from what I assume was the cutlass bearing on my 36' sloop. My PSS seal connects to an air bleed T fitting above the water line, and then back down to a through hull. I left the through hull closed once, and got that slight squealing. More in forward, than in reverse as I recall. Now I always make sure that through hull is open before spinning the shaft. Seemed a bit weird after reading the PSS documentation, as my boat certainly does not plane, and I was just doing a slow speed test drive around the marina.
Super, super work Doug & team. Well done.
The cutlass bearing is starved of its water lubricant. Prop hub needs to be 1.4 x the prop shaft diametet aft of the cutlass to allow adequate water flow into it.
You guys are all so calm. Great work guys.
what a awesome video again thanks Doug!
Best video and most amazing task (underwater pull shaft and bearing !!!) so far !!!!
The best boat mechanic videos on youtube !! Really enjoy watching, innovative practical working!
One hell of a job, well done getting it done.
Great video! A lot of planning and nerves to pull that off with the boat in the water! The air gun looks awesome underwater.
Watching your video after breaking a bolt off in my engine block while I wait to get to a store to get bolt extractors. Thanks for always setting yourself tough challenges and showing that working through them is possible even when you have setbacks.
To do this you need great confidence in your team's ability to be resourceful in their improvisation skills and knowing you have sufficient good gear to try all sorts. Just love this kind of stuff. Won't be long you'll be set for welding under water too. Great vid, thanks,
You guys have out done yourselves. Bravo
Unbelievable how quickly the marine growth grows
On raw metal? Yep!
I think the set screws may be deforming the cutlass. we use fibreglass cutlass bearings on our aluminum hull, but we epoxy then bearings to our shaft log. We have 3 bearings on each 85mm shaft, never had issues. Does squeak a bit if too tight but it wears away.
I love how Doug just takes care of shit. Don’t be scared to figure it out fellas!!!
great video. Love the color of the water.Good idea with the set screw
that looked to be quite the job, but plus doing it underwater AND *recording it all on video while doing it* is beyond next level
....really cool mission you all tackled, and I bet a real check mark off of a life's goals list(of an item that 'normal' people would never consider to ever want on their lists) very impressive, I'm sure it felt good
Superb video I felt as though I was there. Fantastic problem-solving. Well done Doug and the guys.
Give it time to wear in, thats a hell of a job yall got done
Great underwater video! Great job. I bet you all were puckered up to the maximum while doing this job.
Wow, what a great episode!
Fantastic team work!
Yup a plumbers bladder plug,…
Also drill some divots in the bearing so the grub screws have a good bite.
Great job guys!
Should of had a guy with a French accent describing the underwater scenes!😂😂😂
On are shrimp boat's we drill a hole in front of the cutless bearing for water to get to it also you could have saved a lot of work by just putting a Marine ZF transmission in and the squeaking is a Miss alignment issue by looking at the old bearing something is out of alignment my guess but love the videos
Impressive project. 👏
i hope you get it figured it out soon and please have a wonderful holiday weekend
A project for life!
This may sound crazy but your video reveals an interesting thing that maybe you should consider. The mudy water contains fine silt and I believe you mentioned that it contributed to the cutlas bearing wear. I agree but more importantly you need to examine how the silt concentrated in the bearing. Without going into too much detail I think that the shaft needs to be electrically grounded / bonded to the rest of the vessel.
Yes it sounds crazy but here is what may be happening: The shaft shown in the video looks like it was completely covered in a fine coat of "rust" (as you mentioned). This is not rust, it is most likely silica "mud" from the water. If the shaft is charged differently than the rest of the vessel then the deposition of the fine silt will ocurr. This draws the silt out of the water and it coats the shaft except where the cutlass bearing runs. But because the shaft may be at a different potential than the vessel it attracts the silt and it enters the cutlass bearings.
Quite a number of years ago I engineered a couple of small deep vertical pumps in the east river in NY and i used greased hard shaft bearings. However the submerged bearings failed relatively quickly and when we lifted the pumps to inspect I could not believe the amount of fine rust looking "mud" that was coating the pumps and everything that was submerged. I replaced the pump bearings with cutlass type and bonded the pump electrically to drain any stray electrical potential. It worked.
PS remember the PSS seal uses the rubber bellows compression to apply the correct amount of surface compression on the seal surface to make the joint watertight. Follow the recommended setup instructions from PSS.
I always drilled the set screws on the cutlass bearing to make an interference lock on the bearing sleeve.
The 6 gpm pump directly into the PSS seal may just pop the seal open if the preessure is too high. I really doubt that this will pressurize the cutlass at all. You said something about flow to the seal being low - I believe PSS says at less than 12 kts boat speed that venting of the seal will suffice - was the original arrangement vented?
Wow love how you all fix it has you go along make the part where your at. 😊
I own push boats. What you can do is cut two holes forward of the cutlass in the shaft log. That would help.
This was very interesting Doug. Ive seen a cutlass replacement in the water before but never one this size. WOW great stuff
You're the man, Doug!
In my experience, that squeal is unavoidable unless you get perfect alignment, polished surfaces, and good lubrication. It will likely improve on its own, and you'll just pay for that with a slight reduction in life for the bearing. (Which you greatly offset with your water pump)
Doug if you have to pull the shaft again you can buy large fernco caps at a sewer pipe supplier for the outside
I wanted to see the new cutless bearing lol . great job guys i can't get enough of this channel keep the video's coming
De todos los videos que he visto en este canal, este por lejos es el más estresante, un gran abrazo desde Chile
That underwater repair was something. Good on you for not dropping anything.
It's always great to hear from somebody wirh recommendations after you've done something so let me oblige:
Maybe those locking screws deformed the bearing into a triangle. I would drill holes aligned with the shaft axis in the interface between the bearing and prop tube and press pins into them.
To replace a Cutless bearings in smaller boats you just drive or pull the old one out and you freeze (dry ice) the new one and I even heat the strut if you can. Slides right in and when equal temp its locked in place. Also, most prop seals have water inlet so the water will flow through to the strut closest to the hull. But again, that's little Inboard boat stuff.
Good work Doug and gang. It was fun to watch.
Doug, my vote is the rust film is causing the noise kinda like brake dust causing a squeal. FYI, I’m not a mechanic, but I say drive it like you stole it!!
I AM a mechanic and this tracks 100%
Shaft is too tight. Bearing will fail again.
Can't believe they didn't sand the rust off
@@DEW409 Won't the bearing material wear a little and bed in?
@@kabadisha Possibly. But the rubber is thin on those bearings. They are designed to mostly float the shaft with water while running. That’s why they have the slots, but they depend on,copious amounts of water flowing through them to achieve that float. It sounds like possibly no provision was made for water ingress in the front of this bearing. Flowing engine outgoing cooling water down the shaft log might be a solution.
Great job. Good problem solvers are far and few between.
We have found that the Harbor Freight pneumatic tools are great for underwater jobs but generally need to be treated as disposable. Worth having a backup around incase you need it to work.
Thanks again for some A1 quality content
Great job underwater , I was on the edge of my seat ! 😂but if there’s anyone I’d trust to do it , it’s Doug and great crew .
I just discovered you from a channel called Coolest thing Ive seen so I had to see whats going on with your ship and man I gotta say im really impressed with your work.
My boat has a 3 inch stainless shaft with a cutlass on the end which is supplied with water from the raw water cooling system after the pump and before the overboard discharge
It is amazing how much heat can but up from bad water flow. The worst was a composite bearing on a 62 Viking. Growth buildup in front of the sturt, and it melted the first 7 inches of the bearing. When it has set screws, I dimple with a drill bit. My preferred is drill and tap the bearing matching the threads in the strut.
Wow - hats off!
The balls on this man to attempt a repair like this, amazing.
Drill a hole and thread a zerk , grease it up, a zerk could hold the water back if any does the cutless run to inside of the boat? If yes do it inside, put it on your maintenance list
An amazing operation, congratulations on a great job!😊
We had 8 cutlass bearings on my friends 104' boat. 1 in each of the thru hull panels. 1 in a single strut and one in a V strut. Two 32x30 3 blade props each prop shaft had 2 sections 3" diameter. 15 feet long. When we replanked the bottom. The two thru hull sections got reinstalled wrong by the boat yard crew. We had to cut both i struts and v struts to get the props to align
Wow that job is hard doing out of the water. I bet you were knackered after that!
i've been waiting for this one......
Amazing to undertake that job with the boat under water. I hope you do not have a bent shaft . Great video as ever .
Love it keep it up as always 💘
Imbalance in propeller could be destroying the cutlass bearing. I know you looked at the propeller balance but could it also be because each blade is working differently, with a different amount of thrust and drag etc?
Good work though. On the boats I work on we use solid bronze tubes as cutlass bearing with a basic greaser. They last years and years with lots of abuse. All the best.
Great job Doug, one thing doing it underwater is akin to being in space you get a 360 degree working. Upside down, back to front. Amazing though been looking forward to seeing you do the cutlass bearing.
There you go people of TH-cam land try those hard jobs you might surprise yourself !
Turn the radio up, the noise will go away.
"everything's a strap-on" ❤️🤣