Replacing film caps with electrolytic bipolars? In almost 50 years of working on audio gear, that's the first time I've seen that done. I know that Crites and Klipsch have sort of a hate-hate relationship. On the Klipsch forum, just using the word "Crites" in a post will get you a warning from the admin. And, let me say up front that when I built my current speakers, I bought and used a pair of Crites 3636 autoformers, and I absolutely love them. But what you're showing here might be a bit misleading. Not the "pile of parts" bit, you're right about that. That crossover looks like a hot mess. Paul Klipsch would have had a fit. It looks like the insides of a Sanyo rack system speaker from the 80's. The ESR issue has me wondering. First, did Klipsch use crummy Chinese film caps, or is there some other reason that the film caps have a higher ESR than the bipolars? It should be the other way around. Second, how much do these small amounts of ESR make a difference in speakers with eight and 16-ohm drivers? Electrolytic bipolars, like all electrolytics, become leaky with age, and this leakage can result in serious changes to the sound of a speaker and can result in damage to HF drivers due to lows getting through the leaky caps, That's why I always replace bipolars with GOOD film caps, like Nichicons, and if necessary, add a bit of series resistance to account for the almost always lower ESR of the new film caps. When I recapped my Smaller Advents from 1972 (my bench speakers), the new film caps eliminated the obvious low midrange information that was going to the "fried egg" tweeter, but it made them a tad too hot above 7K. A one-ohm resistor in series with each cap toned it down a bit. Note that these are four-ohm speakers, and so ESR is more important.
We have been working on these speakers since the early 2000s and have rebuilt thousands of crossovers in this time. The results in ESR data have been consistent in showing that after about 20 years these caps all have high ESR. I can’t speak to the quality of the parts that Klipsch may have used initially as far as how they tested when they arrived at the factory, but I have reams of data showing how they test when they age. This additional resistance when added to the circuit does indeed change the crossover point to some degree. In testing with an audio spectrum analyzer before and after rebuild using simulated driver loads, there is a notable difference pre and post-rebuild, and customers really appreciate the sound improvements when they reinstall the crossovers after rebuild. Most often I get comments such as “this was like lifting a blanket off of the speaker”.
During the time that these were built, I do no think the caps were " cheap Chinese junk", but were , as we have seen, the best parts available, at the time. Also, many of the speakers were designed using tube amps amps. and pre-amps. So, for that point in time, they sounded wonderful.Look at the frequency responses, as designed, they are fine for the times. When using digital ,electronics, you are asking the speakers to do something that they were not designed for.
@@davidhamm5626 if the ferrite core cracks, it will reduce the inductance of the inductor considerably. This will change the characteristics of the crossover in a way that will almost certainly be audible.
Replacing film caps with electrolytic bipolars?
In almost 50 years of working on audio gear, that's the first time I've seen that done. I know that Crites and Klipsch have sort of a hate-hate relationship. On the Klipsch forum, just using the word "Crites" in a post will get you a warning from the admin. And, let me say up front that when I built my current speakers, I bought and used a pair of Crites 3636 autoformers, and I absolutely love them. But what you're showing here might be a bit misleading. Not the "pile of parts" bit, you're right about that. That crossover looks like a hot mess. Paul Klipsch would have had a fit. It looks like the insides of a Sanyo rack system speaker from the 80's.
The ESR issue has me wondering. First, did Klipsch use crummy Chinese film caps, or is there some other reason that the film caps have a higher ESR than the bipolars? It should be the other way around. Second, how much do these small amounts of ESR make a difference in speakers with eight and 16-ohm drivers?
Electrolytic bipolars, like all electrolytics, become leaky with age, and this leakage can result in serious changes to the sound of a speaker and can result in damage to HF drivers due to lows getting through the leaky caps, That's why I always replace bipolars with GOOD film caps, like Nichicons, and if necessary, add a bit of series resistance to account for the almost always lower ESR of the new film caps. When I recapped my Smaller Advents from 1972 (my bench speakers), the new film caps eliminated the obvious low midrange information that was going to the "fried egg" tweeter, but it made them a tad too hot above 7K. A one-ohm resistor in series with each cap toned it down a bit. Note that these are four-ohm speakers, and so ESR is more important.
We have been working on these speakers since the early 2000s and have rebuilt thousands of crossovers in this time. The results in ESR data have been consistent in showing that after about 20 years these caps all have high ESR. I can’t speak to the quality of the parts that Klipsch may have used initially as far as how they tested when they arrived at the factory, but I have reams of data showing how they test when they age. This additional resistance when added to the circuit does indeed change the crossover point to some degree. In testing with an audio spectrum analyzer before and after rebuild using simulated driver loads, there is a notable difference pre and post-rebuild, and customers really appreciate the sound improvements when they reinstall the crossovers after rebuild. Most often I get comments such as “this was like lifting a blanket off of the speaker”.
During the time that these were built, I do no think the caps were " cheap Chinese junk", but were , as we have seen, the best parts available, at the time.
Also, many of the speakers were designed using tube amps amps. and pre-amps. So, for that point in time, they sounded wonderful.Look at the frequency
responses, as designed, they are fine for the times. When using digital ,electronics, you are asking the speakers to do something that they were not designed for.
Why is the ferrite core being loose, an issue?
@@davidhamm5626 if the ferrite core cracks, it will reduce the inductance of the inductor considerably. This will change the characteristics of the crossover in a way that will almost certainly be audible.
@@ScottGrammer Okay, I understand now, thanks !