Thank you! I'm a Therapeutic Riding Instructor for people with special needs, and I get asked a lot "which style do you teach?". I respond by making the same points you do in the video. Now I have a visual to show them as well!
I rode English since a very young age, went over to Western last year - it felt completely different! A few weeks ago I started riding English again, I like both styles although Western is more comfortable in some ways.
Nice video. Glad to hear you say it's okay to post in a western saddle. I ride western and I post, I also do a lot of sitting trots. I was told (years ago) that it's not "proper" to post in a western saddle, but if it's more comfortable for my horse and myself, I'm doing it, lol.
Kristen Slice Yes, thank you. But despite the type of saddle the horse still has the same motion, as you can see from the video where Callie is posting. I don't post unless my horse is trotting along at a faster, extended pace. Or if I want to practice posting on the vertical. And as for the movies, that doesn't concern me. Those horses are Hollywood horses and rode mostly by stunt men or women (aside from the occasional actor that likes to do their own stunts or enjoys riding horses). Movies and shows are also not reality. And I don't mean that in a smart a$$ way, but you're entitled to your opinion all the same.
We have one Australian stock saddle (western style) and one dressage saddle (english) and I use both on my horse. I'm basically a self-taught rider and I only trail ride (so far). To me it's more about the fun I have with my horse than mastering a specific discipline, but that may be just because I can't do anything else! ;P
I love the way you explain the principles of movement in for western saddles and English saddles, opposed to claiming that one is better than the other. Thank you so much for another great video and explanation.
This was great! Makes me wonder why there’s such a prejudice between the two riding styles/tack preferences. You put a western rider with an English rider in the same room and you can feel the tension. I wonder what causes it in the first place? :3
I ride with western riders at my barn. The only thing I can think is that many western riders never post and they seem to be working less :-) maybe it makes the English riders feel they are taking riding less seriously. I think the horses don't mind either way they just want a nice light hand and a person with a good seat. My barn is all pleasure riders though and there is no tension.
If the western rider is riding correctly they are moving in a left right motion while staying seated that’s kind of like posting for an English rider. Also as you know sitting a trot is not that comfortable depending on the horse and western riders sit everything so actually I would not say they are doing less work! I ride both disciplines and they both take practice and work. Please be cautious in judging any discipline.
Sure no point in judging. As long as the horse is taken into consideration that is the most important factor. As well as riding to the best of your ability. We can't all be top riders but we can all improve.
Sparky16 I think it's because everyone in the horse world is think too much of good and bad. And is looking for affirmation by putting down someone or something else. "If I say they are ding it wrong loudly enough then it will look as if I'm doing it right."
I appreciate this video but there's a couple of things I miss having ridden both styles quite a bit. First is ground work. In western it's a much bigger thing working the horse from the ground before mounting it, to start the relationship up and connecting. In English riding we tend to try to do that from the saddle. The other is neck reining and that's a big difference that translates into how the bit is carried and how to use push and release. Western riding comes from working cow horses, descending from Spanish school of riding. English riding comes more from the military and nowadays pleasure activities such as dressage, jumping, fox hunting and such. And that brings me to why there's tension, it's a class thing (IMHO). English riding comes from the old world with a strong connection to the British upper class. Western riding has no such heritage. When I mention my western background (CA) in traditional English stables they think it's about the saddle (kind like this video ^.^) funny clothes and shouting yeehaw. A good thing is that there are great horse people in every discipline from Mongolia to Wyoming with England right in between. Shoutout to Southern California reined cow horse association.
@@wioi Interesting comment. What's your experiences enabling you to compare? O know that old school western was very saddle based but the recent schools uses round pen and groundwork. I can't find anything similar in Europe except Spain, Portugal and perhaps Phillipe Karl and his Ecole Legerete.
Very cool thanks!... I have an English all purpose English saddle & I Aussie endurance saddle. I picked the Aussie instead of a western. You just confirmed the way that I ride both saddles.
I tried to improve my trail seat by taking months of dressage. LOVED it! Dressage saddle has big thigh rolls and high cantle, so I feel more secure. Most western saddles are uncomfortable for horse AND rider, poke horse in shoulders and loins, etc. I apply my skills on both disciplines, and have such a long way to go. Love your videos, thank you.
I have ridden english for a long time, and after that I had to quit due to other circumstances. Anyway, I'm getting back into it after not riding for 4 years . I recently moved, and I get to work/ride my neighbor's horses! It's awesome, BUT the horse is ridden in a western saddle. And lemme tell you, I was convinced that I was a crappy western rider. My butt hurts when I'm just sitting on it, my legs keep falling out, and my horse falls in the circle. But seeing how this gal sits in the western, I can now see that the saddle I'm using is waaay too big and stirrups are too long (even at it's shortest length).
Lots of good information here! Two comments... Way too much mouth contact for western riding/neck reining which is the goal. Also, there is very little posting in western riding because stock horses don't usually have a bouncy trot (jog!). It is used when starting the horse to get them comfortable but eventually is discontinued. The post men in England were riding mostly thoroughbreds with hard trots, thus they started "posting".
I've ridden Western all of my life, but I want to learn English, the thing is I was never taught how to post, but a lot of times when I've ridden I've posted just like shown in the video, and I was told I should learn to ride English because I know how to post properly
Changing the saddle shouldn't change anything as long as they both fit :D But I think there is a huge difference in the way the aids are given. There is a lot more contact to the horses mouth in English riding than there is in Western riding. You are supposed to use the bit a lot less in Western riding and instead use your seat, legs more. In western riding you are supposed to give tthe aid and the horse should do whatever the aid said until you give the next one. In English riding you are giving the aid as long as you want the horse to do it. I'm not saying one is better than the other BUT there is a lot more differences than just changing the saddle! And obviously it doens't really matter as long as your way of riding isn't hurting the horse :)
I would love to hear more about this if you still feel like sharing. I'm trying to learn as much as I can before going out riding after taking many years off. (I don't know how the horses are trained around here, so I'm trying to be prepared for both. Or even to try both if they are available.) Your comment talked about the kinds of things that I'm trying to learn before going to ride again. I'd love to hear more if you still feel like sharing. 😊
That's not true with the the bit. I ride without a bit. And I can ride without both of my hands in trot and canter, my legs give the clues not my hands, they are only for directions left and right.
I get the feel most Western riders have more of a forward leg position, slightly longer stirrups and use their seat more. I see a moore relaxed body posture and leaning slightly backwards because of the tilt of the seat. I also see a lot of hands carried very low and more use of neck reining, but maybe that's just Cowboys. Also, when I ride English in England I have been yelled at countless times for holding my hands low, far apart and horizontal like that (they call it motorbike arms) though I vastly prefer riding like that, it keeps me relaxed, balanced and my hands soft as long as my lower leg is secure when posting, but if you're not careful you can pull on the horse when posting, which is sort of happening here.
I started out English to learn a balance then I went to western. The switch was fairly easy, but I had to figure out how to keep my feet under me. Then I recently tried English… and it was just horrible. My balance was off, my feet were forward, I couldn’t remember for the life of me where to sit, and my stirrups were probably at a jumping length. It sucked.
That's the problem with western riding. You just don't balance good at all. Western riding is just sitting in the sattle like a sack of potatoes in English you have to work work work in the sattle. 😅That's why it was easy to switch from English to western but not the other way around
I have a 17 year old cutting horse that I want to use in other ways. I would enjoy trail and cowboy dressage. Can he be retired from cutting and do a completely different discipline? Thanks!
A horse can be taught to do whatever you want it to do. Want it to jump? Teach it to jump. Want it to do fancy dressage moves? Teach it fancy dressage moves. The "western" of the western horse is not so much how the horse is trained or what cues you give the horse to do things, it's the discipline the horse is used for. A roping or cutting horse or a barrel horse could be used for jumping or dressage in the same way a dressage or jumping horse could alternatively be used for cutting or roping or barrels. If you put an English saddle on your horse, it might feel a little different to him (lighter, perhaps) but in general their behavior and cues should be about the same. Most horses who are taught to "neck rein" have also been taught initially to ride with two reins. So, the "western" horse should be good to go! Just teach it to do what you want it to do, and don't worry about whether your horse is "western" or "english"!! Granted, though, some horses ARE better suited to different disciplines (a smaller, faster horse is better for jumping or barrels or cutting whereas a stocky horse might be better for roping or endurance and a light and lanky tall horse or even a draft like a Friesian might be better for dressage). But that doesn't mean that a tall lanky horse can't do barrels or endurance or a small fast horse can't do dressage..... It does happen!! :-)
Nimeariel you’re not going to get a reining cutting roping horse to do jumping or dressage Let’s say you have a reining horse to do jumping reining horses are 13.5 to 14.5 hands and are trained to stop spin and keep there head down they are cold blooded meaning they’re not a hot blooded thoroughbred they can’t do jumping My stud horse is a heeling horse he’s about 13.5 to 14 hands I don’t remember he has reign bloodline that makes him short specifically a Hollywood Dun it horse he can spin and do slide stop naturally reining and roping horses are usually both quarter horses he’s trained to do heeling but instead of stopping with his front feet he always does a sliding stop he can still heel good but he would be better off reining but I don’t like reining the bloodlines are good Cutting horses are very jumpy and tall they’re not stocky like reining horses and they are BRED for the opposite of jumping and that is getting really low to the ground and CUTTING a cow You can’t make a bred racehorse a world class cutter or Reiner I don’t anything about barrel racing but anyways my point is the horse is going to do what the horse is bred to do
Western, you can ride one hand but when you take a lesson, it depend on your coach, some coach will teach the student how to ride with 2 hands first and after and sometime with one hand.. also for western
Kristen Slice western isn't entirely one handed. It depends on the bit you're using. You can't easily ride one handed in a snaffle but some horses won't respond as well to a curb bit. Also young/green horse classes in a lot of western disciplines let you compete in a snaffle, two handed but as you move up, the expectation is you will move to a curb to be able to perform higher end maneuvers. But theoretically you could ride your horse in a snaffle (two handed) for your entire western riding career if you didn't show or only showed green classes
TheVlogDog sigh theirs nothing I will do to stop you from thinking that but you need to check your critical eye and don't worry about anything except how the horse thinks I'm not going to explain everything over and over, U can think whatever goodbye
TheVlogDog what I saw was every time she posted I saw that contact on the reins I also veiwed the bit and the horses mouth it was moving back every time she posted and then I saw the horses mouth open a few times
I see hands moving slightly as she posts, resulting in the reins looping slightly and then straightening. It shows up almost like vibrating. Horses are sensitive and I'm sure the horse feels it, but he is being a trooper about it. I can only assume her regular instructor will address that with her. I need to work on that, too.
Thank you! I'm a Therapeutic Riding Instructor for people with special needs, and I get asked a lot "which style do you teach?". I respond by making the same points you do in the video. Now I have a visual to show them as well!
I rode English since a very young age, went over to Western last year - it felt completely different!
A few weeks ago I started riding English again, I like both styles although Western is more comfortable in some ways.
Nice video. Glad to hear you say it's okay to post in a western saddle. I ride western and I post, I also do a lot of sitting trots. I was told (years ago) that it's not "proper" to post in a western saddle, but if it's more comfortable for my horse and myself, I'm doing it, lol.
It's not needed for the western saddle. Show me a western movie or tv show where the riders post.
Kristen Slice Yes, thank you. But despite the type of saddle the horse still has the same motion, as you can see from the video where Callie is posting. I don't post unless my horse is trotting along at a faster, extended pace. Or if I want to practice posting on the vertical. And as for the movies, that doesn't concern me. Those horses are Hollywood horses and rode mostly by stunt men or women (aside from the occasional actor that likes to do their own stunts or enjoys riding horses). Movies and shows are also not reality. And I don't mean that in a smart a$$ way, but you're entitled to your opinion all the same.
I was taught to post in Western. It's better for the horse and the riders comfort.
Western- sitting trot!!!!!!!
We have one Australian stock saddle (western style) and one dressage saddle (english) and I use both on my horse. I'm basically a self-taught rider and I only trail ride (so far). To me it's more about the fun I have with my horse than mastering a specific discipline, but that may be just because I can't do anything else! ;P
That sounds absolutely lovely. 😊
I love the way you explain the principles of movement in for western saddles and English saddles, opposed to claiming that one is better than the other. Thank you so much for another great video and explanation.
This was great! Makes me wonder why there’s such a prejudice between the two riding styles/tack preferences. You put a western rider with an English rider in the same room and you can feel the tension. I wonder what causes it in the first place? :3
I ride with western riders at my barn. The only thing I can think is that many western riders never post and they seem to be working less :-) maybe it makes the English riders feel they are taking riding less seriously. I think the horses don't mind either way they just want a nice light hand and a person with a good seat. My barn is all pleasure riders though and there is no tension.
There is a video of such
If the western rider is riding correctly they are moving in a left right motion while staying seated that’s kind of like posting for an English rider. Also as you know sitting a trot is not that comfortable depending on the horse and western riders sit everything so actually I would not say they are doing less work! I ride both disciplines and they both take practice and work. Please be cautious in judging any discipline.
Sure no point in judging. As long as the horse is taken into consideration that is the most important factor. As well as riding to the best of your ability. We can't all be top riders but we can all improve.
Sparky16 I think it's because everyone in the horse world is think too much of good and bad. And is looking for affirmation by putting down someone or something else. "If I say they are ding it wrong loudly enough then it will look as if I'm doing it right."
I appreciate this video but there's a couple of things I miss having ridden both styles quite a bit. First is ground work. In western it's a much bigger thing working the horse from the ground before mounting it, to start the relationship up and connecting. In English riding we tend to try to do that from the saddle. The other is neck reining and that's a big difference that translates into how the bit is carried and how to use push and release. Western riding comes from working cow horses, descending from Spanish school of riding. English riding comes more from the military and nowadays pleasure activities such as dressage, jumping, fox hunting and such. And that brings me to why there's tension, it's a class thing (IMHO). English riding comes from the old world with a strong connection to the British upper class. Western riding has no such heritage. When I mention my western background (CA) in traditional English stables they think it's about the saddle (kind like this video ^.^) funny clothes and shouting yeehaw. A good thing is that there are great horse people in every discipline from Mongolia to Wyoming with England right in between. Shoutout to Southern California reined cow horse association.
Sorry but I have to totally disagree with you on the ground work. Actually English riders usually do much more ground work than western!
@@wioi Interesting comment. What's your experiences enabling you to compare? O know that old school western was very saddle based but the recent schools uses round pen and groundwork. I can't find anything similar in Europe except Spain, Portugal and perhaps Phillipe Karl and his Ecole Legerete.
Very cool thanks!... I have an English all purpose English saddle & I Aussie endurance saddle. I picked the Aussie instead of a western. You just confirmed the way that I ride both saddles.
I tried to improve my trail seat by taking months of dressage. LOVED it! Dressage saddle has big thigh rolls and high cantle, so I feel more secure. Most western saddles are uncomfortable for horse AND rider, poke horse in shoulders and loins, etc. I apply my skills on both disciplines, and have such a long way to go. Love your videos, thank you.
Thank you! I am going to a western ranch I’ve been English since I could walk.
I have ridden english for a long time, and after that I had to quit due to other circumstances. Anyway, I'm getting back into it after not riding for 4 years . I recently moved, and I get to work/ride my neighbor's horses! It's awesome, BUT the horse is ridden in a western saddle. And lemme tell you, I was convinced that I was a crappy western rider. My butt hurts when I'm just sitting on it, my legs keep falling out, and my horse falls in the circle. But seeing how this gal sits in the western, I can now see that the saddle I'm using is waaay too big and stirrups are too long (even at it's shortest length).
Her stirrups where waaay too short for the western sattle. No Western rider rides with short stirrups like that
Lots of good information here! Two comments... Way too much mouth contact for western riding/neck reining which is the goal. Also, there is very little posting in western riding because stock horses don't usually have a bouncy trot (jog!). It is used when starting the horse to get them comfortable but eventually is discontinued. The post men in England were riding mostly thoroughbreds with hard trots, thus they started "posting".
I agree with everything you said. I ride a thoroughbred as well. (Englisch rider)
I've ridden Western all of my life, but I want to learn English, the thing is I was never taught how to post, but a lot of times when I've ridden I've posted just like shown in the video, and I was told I should learn to ride English because I know how to post properly
Changing the saddle shouldn't change anything as long as they both fit :D
But I think there is a huge difference in the way the aids are given. There is a lot more contact to the horses mouth in English riding than there is in Western riding. You are supposed to use the bit a lot less in Western riding and instead use your seat, legs more. In western riding you are supposed to give tthe aid and the horse should do whatever the aid said until you give the next one. In English riding you are giving the aid as long as you want the horse to do it. I'm not saying one is better than the other BUT there is a lot more differences than just changing the saddle! And obviously it doens't really matter as long as your way of riding isn't hurting the horse :)
I would love to hear more about this if you still feel like sharing. I'm trying to learn as much as I can before going out riding after taking many years off. (I don't know how the horses are trained around here, so I'm trying to be prepared for both. Or even to try both if they are available.) Your comment talked about the kinds of things that I'm trying to learn before going to ride again. I'd love to hear more if you still feel like sharing. 😊
That's not true with the the bit. I ride without a bit. And I can ride without both of my hands in trot and canter, my legs give the clues not my hands, they are only for directions left and right.
I struggle with proper stirrup height and "keeping heels down" with Western. Once we start the canter/lope my feet jump out of the stirrups.
I get the feel most Western riders have more of a forward leg position, slightly longer stirrups and use their seat more. I see a moore relaxed body posture and leaning slightly backwards because of the tilt of the seat. I also see a lot of hands carried very low and more use of neck reining, but maybe that's just Cowboys. Also, when I ride English in England I have been yelled at countless times for holding my hands low, far apart and horizontal like that (they call it motorbike arms) though I vastly prefer riding like that, it keeps me relaxed, balanced and my hands soft as long as my lower leg is secure when posting, but if you're not careful you can pull on the horse when posting, which is sort of happening here.
If your teaching western, PLEASE learn that the back cinch has a purpose and should be flush against the horses belly NOT hanging down
I started out English to learn a balance then I went to western. The switch was fairly easy, but I had to figure out how to keep my feet under me. Then I recently tried English… and it was just horrible. My balance was off, my feet were forward, I couldn’t remember for the life of me where to sit, and my stirrups were probably at a jumping length. It sucked.
That's the problem with western riding. You just don't balance good at all. Western riding is just sitting in the sattle like a sack of potatoes in English you have to work work work in the sattle. 😅That's why it was easy to switch from English to western but not the other way around
Thank you this is super helpful
I'm a western rider, if ur english or western your still a great rider!!
I have a 17 year old cutting horse that I want to use in other ways. I would enjoy trail and cowboy dressage. Can he be retired from cutting and do a completely different discipline? Thanks!
I have a cutting bred that can do ANYTHING but jump. Cutting horses are some of the most all around bred horses
Do yoy have a video on how to teach a western horse to do English
A horse can be taught to do whatever you want it to do. Want it to jump? Teach it to jump. Want it to do fancy dressage moves? Teach it fancy dressage moves. The "western" of the western horse is not so much how the horse is trained or what cues you give the horse to do things, it's the discipline the horse is used for. A roping or cutting horse or a barrel horse could be used for jumping or dressage in the same way a dressage or jumping horse could alternatively be used for cutting or roping or barrels. If you put an English saddle on your horse, it might feel a little different to him (lighter, perhaps) but in general their behavior and cues should be about the same. Most horses who are taught to "neck rein" have also been taught initially to ride with two reins. So, the "western" horse should be good to go! Just teach it to do what you want it to do, and don't worry about whether your horse is "western" or "english"!! Granted, though, some horses ARE better suited to different disciplines (a smaller, faster horse is better for jumping or barrels or cutting whereas a stocky horse might be better for roping or endurance and a light and lanky tall horse or even a draft like a Friesian might be better for dressage). But that doesn't mean that a tall lanky horse can't do barrels or endurance or a small fast horse can't do dressage..... It does happen!! :-)
Nimeariel you’re not going to get a reining cutting roping horse to do jumping or dressage
Let’s say you have a reining horse to do jumping reining horses are 13.5 to 14.5 hands and are trained to stop spin and keep there head down they are cold blooded meaning they’re not a hot blooded thoroughbred they can’t do jumping
My stud horse is a heeling horse he’s about 13.5 to 14 hands I don’t remember he has reign bloodline that makes him short specifically a Hollywood Dun it horse he can spin and do slide stop naturally reining and roping horses are usually both quarter horses he’s trained to do heeling but instead of stopping with his front feet he always does a sliding stop he can still heel good but he would be better off reining but I don’t like reining the bloodlines are good
Cutting horses are very jumpy and tall they’re not stocky like reining horses and they are BRED for the opposite of jumping and that is getting really low to the ground and CUTTING a cow
You can’t make a bred racehorse a world class cutter or Reiner I don’t anything about barrel racing but anyways my point is the horse is going to do what the horse is bred to do
A moose Calf I have a cutting bred gelding who jumps 3' courses. A lot of western horses cross to hunters well :)
the western saddle is crooked, im surprised she didnt fix it before shooting.
I'm surprised neither of them knew - western riding is one hand. Well that and the fact she was sitting too far back in the western saddle.
Western, you can ride one hand but when you take a lesson, it depend on your coach, some coach will teach the student how to ride with 2 hands first and after and sometime with one hand.. also for western
Kristen Slice western isn't entirely one handed. It depends on the bit you're using. You can't easily ride one handed in a snaffle but some horses won't respond as well to a curb bit. Also young/green horse classes in a lot of western disciplines let you compete in a snaffle, two handed but as you move up, the expectation is you will move to a curb to be able to perform higher end maneuvers. But theoretically you could ride your horse in a snaffle (two handed) for your entire western riding career if you didn't show or only showed green classes
Love you kali!
I ride on a bare back pad I prefer it I also love to jump
The horse looks like he has more movement in the English :) better strides
Probably because the saddle is lighter and the rider can do posting trot more easily to get off the horse's back and free it up. :-)
@@Nimeariel yeah it’s much easier to post in English coming from someone who started western when learning then switched to English to event
Uh, a roping saddle is not the standard western saddle. A TRAIL western saddle would be the standard.
Kristen Slice why?
English me problem ho gya
Does anyone not see the horse being pulled on?!
Will you shut up
@@kristenslice561 :)
She's keeping way too much mouth contact for both English and Western, but especially for Western. She's going to ruin that horse's mouth.
Tum log jha rho ge problem Karo ge
She's sitting too far back in the western.
She's not, roping saddles push you back. I sit further up in a trail saddle and further back in a Roper/cutting. It's just how the saddles are made.
The rider is pulling every single time she goes up
FYI TAKE THE DANG BIT OUT
TheVlogDog sigh theirs nothing I will do to stop you from thinking that but you need to check your critical eye and don't worry about anything except how the horse thinks I'm not going to explain everything over and over, U can think whatever goodbye
TheVlogDog theirs no such thing as a mild bit
TheVlogDog what I saw was every time she posted I saw that contact on the reins I also veiwed the bit and the horses mouth it was moving back every time she posted and then I saw the horses mouth open a few times
I see hands moving slightly as she posts, resulting in the reins looping slightly and then straightening. It shows up almost like vibrating. Horses are sensitive and I'm sure the horse feels it, but he is being a trooper about it. I can only assume her regular instructor will address that with her. I need to work on that, too.
Honey Lavender I don't like bits in general but still i agree she needs to work on that