Also. As I commented in the FB group. If someone marked up my bags, I'd have flipped the table and used that marker to draw inappropriate things on their face. I love that idea of having a 5 minute timer. If you don't make it to the boards in 5 minutes, you forfeit. And yes that would tick some people off but they would sure learn that they better be ready to play and to pay attention. I'd give some courtesy to say a team that is up again instantly to give someone a chance to go to the bathroom but at least make it known to the other team first.
Appreciate your comments Mike! I'd love to compete in open events and even help run them, but I can't do a 72 weekend. Maybe more limited qualifiers per year. Then there could be inner state qualifiers so players don't eat so much and they can still hit places and at the end regionals, nationals, etc...
I'm done with aco and acl . Just gonna play local tournaments and clubs in my area and have fun doing it . I get bag specs but a 32nd of a inch come on. Thanks mike for what you do
I was at the Myrtle Beach Open. I waited an hour between doubles games and 2 hours between singles until people were eliminated. This is because they started basically everyone at the same time and each group of about 60 people was working on ~5 boards. So the whole event required everyone, regardless of division to wait the whole 12-15 hours if they made it that far. On top of this, even the first games of the day didn't start at 9 am sharp, they started at 9:15 or so. So they couldn't even get people going when there was no backlog to work through. They should start each division at different times. If you tell intermediate they are starting at 9, competitive at noon, advanced at 3, then you have a chance to work through each division where the players that are expecting to play are not waiting around. Then they whittle down the groups and they can be compressed onto fewer boards as the next division gets going. While this is happening other players from other divisions aren't expecting to play so they won't get mad. Maybe they don't even show up until their time. Maybe they came with someone in another division but they know what to expect. Perhaps if you run it this way you could even reserve some boards for sit and go's to keep them entertained. The whole event takes the same amount of time of course, but the individual player's time is respected. Really simple, basic fixes I am surprised the ACL hasn't figured out yet. Or maybe there's some reason why this doesn't work? If anyone from the ACL is out there, let me know. I have a lot of ideas and would be happy to run your Department of Cornhole Efficiency.
You make excellent points. I don't know why the ACL doesn't stagger the start times for the divisions. I feel like that is standard at most large cornhole events.
On the timer deal..Scoreholio has a timer when the match is up and you can see the time on how long its been sitting there before starting...though nothing of forfeit and stuff..
The irony of reaching out to the ACL for reimbursement is, as you said, they are terrible at responding. That would likely go nowhere without getting in to legal council. As a bag maker I can understand these are sewn by hand, the ACL should understand that as well. 1/32” is less than the thickness of thread. As you said there does have to be a line, but there must be a better process to this. If those were bags I had made, I’d gladly replace them for the kid with a new set. Hopefully fellow bag makers would feel the same.
I know the kid in the story mike is talking about and the dad was saying it left a bad taste in there mouth of what ACL is and alot of local players near us have had problems with ACL but nothing against ACL there will be problems no matter what they just go to know how to fix it
I finished 3rd in the competitive singles bracket at an ACL open last month. The only thing I won was a free entry into another open. ACL lost my business forever.
I assume when I purchase a set of bags it will comply to ACL standards if it has the ACL stamp. When we loose great manufacturers of bags like Ninja. Over these fees and standard verification process we loose the heart of the sport. As I practice and get better dream would someday compete in a Major event. I would certainly think my hard work and dedication perfecting the craft was the reason I got to that event. And not that my bags were 1/32 under or over.
You go Mike. What the ACL did to that kid is criminal. When we buy bags with the ACL's stamp of approval. We are confident that they are legal. Now I wonder what that stamp is for if not for quality assurance besides a money grab.
Mike I understand your frustration. What the ACL did was wrong. The bag qualifications should not be that strict. Maybe for the pro players since they are sponsored. Maybe the rules be strict at the pro level and lesser as the levels goes down to the bottom level at tournaments.
Bowling went through this a few times. USBC = ACL (Governing Body who Stamps the ball/bag The manufacturer sends X products for testing to be approved. Once approved the company mass produces them. Once in the field, they get inspected, and... uh oh, Storm equipment tested below the minimum hardness specification. Now, I don't know what happened behind the scenes, but usually the governing body makes a deal with the manufacturer, so that the sport doesn't kill itself with financial burden they can't recover from. Regardless, the outcome in the bowling world, was that the manufacturer (Storm) had to recall every single model that had failed. Consumers had a 6 month window, to initiate their return, which was by submitting their ball, and selecting any new ball from the current lineup to replace it, at no charge to the customer. Those entire models were no longer legal and were unable to be used at any USBC sanctioned events. Bowling went through the same drama, where it was PBA pro's who had balls confiscated in the middle of an ongoing tournament. And then the same exact issues with "how is testing done" "how are the testing machines calibrated" "how is the process performed altering the results" even with manufactures posting a nearly identical video that Ultra did, showing how different methods could create different results of pass/fail. It's very interesting to watch Cornhole go through all of the same hurdles that the bowling world did not so long ago.
Great Video. Great content. Great topics. The bag re-inspection, is a joke. If the ACL is going to call out failures on bags, they better understand bag materials. We have materials that stretch 1/4 inch, also larger. Why do it at the end? That poor young man. He is a Great player. Get's screwed over. My guess he wont be back to the ACL. How much do they want to lose.. Address bags at the beginning. Several bag manufacturers have currently changed alot of templates to meet their requirements. This game is 90% about the player, not the bags..
The ACL should be randomly checking bag makers to be sure they are compliant. That person who marked out that poor boys bags probably had a relative that got beat by him!!😂
55:00 I was thinking this when I saw Ethan Walker and Cody Henderson throwing for Scenario. Ethan is fun to watch with his block/roll game and Cody is the complete opposite. I agree that Ellis and Jacob would be a good matchup, but which bags are they throwing?
You should take 1 set of bags and break all the bags in differently, vinegar, 3 hours in the dryer, rubber mallet, boiling, throwing, etc... just to see if the initial break-in has an effect on size
Hey Mike, I’m confused on the bag measurements. If the minimum for length and width is 5.75” then the diagonal would be 8.13”. How do the bag makers get a diagonal measurement of minimum 7.3” without going under the 5.75” minimum for the length and width? What am I missing? Thx as always!
I'm betting that the ACL mostly loses money or breaks even on these events. I bet the majority of their money comes from the sale of bags with the ACL stamp on them. They need the events to keep people buying bags so they can make their money. Their events are essentially advertisements for ACL stamped bags.
The ACL only gets 15% of the bag sales. That's not going to be enough to run the league. The ACL should be getting enough money from their sponsors to cover the cost of the event. The entry fees should cover the payouts and have some left for profit.
I don't agree with the way any of this is being handled but in softball they'll scratch the stamp off your bat if they deem it illegal. those bats can be $350+. I think they do it to make sure they can't use them anymore since they can't monitor every ACL event.
In softball, if a bat is illegal, it can't be fixed. If a bag is slightly too small, it can be stretched and become legal. That's what the ACL is missing.
The ACL stamp is only indicative that at initial point of sale the bag conformed to the specifications put forth under ACL guidelines - The ONLY way to ensure perfect conformity to standards is for the ACL to provide the bags thrown before each match. Even the NFL had deflategate - so 🤷♂️ Isn’t the diagonal measurement the reason why Gladiator had to change from their “octagon” corner design?
Bag companies know that bags are going to break in as they are thrown. I feel like they need to ensure that the bag is also going to be within specs after it breaks in. I don't know for sure about Gladiator. That diagonal measurement may have been what caused them to change.
The ACL are fast becoming farcical with their bag policy. The whole stamp process is a bit of a Ponzi scheme. The ACL set bag standards, collect a fee on every bag sold, aren’t transparent on how they measure bags, then have absolute authority on cancelling bags. I understand the need to have standards on bags but it should be a stamp from a different body, other than the leagues issuing them.
That's a great question and I don't know the answer. I tried to research that before this video but I couldn't find any examples that were similar to this. To me, once you buy the bags, they are your property and I don't think the ACL has a right to mark on them. They can refuse to allow you to use them in an ACL event if they don't meet the standards/
ACL. ACL. ACL. To much wishy washy stuff going to start running people off instead of bringing more people in . To much drama i. Life already I don’t want more of it in My hobby’s also. 37:46
The ACL is starting to sound like joke the last couple of months. Bag makers and customers are paying extra for that stamp, meaning they were approved by the ACL for use. How they break down should not be a reason to penalize players for using their bags. Make bags legal up to 2 years. After that, they're now longer approved for ACL events, is it that hard?
Not understanding the science completely, but I do NOT under any circumstance, think it should be the player's responsibility. They purchased it, and has a reasonable expectation that a stamped bag meets appropriate specifications. Bags are honestly too fluid to perfectly measure, but too small is too small. investigate the company, leave the players alone.
I think the company should be suspended from making bags for awhile at least with ACL stamp. It sucks for the kid or for anyone for that matter. The kid could have done work and saved up. And for anyone else if you by 3 different sets for example with the stamp (200-300 dollars) and doesn't count if the measurements are off. Nevermind we all have that money just laying around right?😤
Also. As I commented in the FB group. If someone marked up my bags, I'd have flipped the table and used that marker to draw inappropriate things on their face.
I love that idea of having a 5 minute timer. If you don't make it to the boards in 5 minutes, you forfeit. And yes that would tick some people off but they would sure learn that they better be ready to play and to pay attention.
I'd give some courtesy to say a team that is up again instantly to give someone a chance to go to the bathroom but at least make it known to the other team first.
Your podcast are my favorite. Total unbias opinion. Call them like you see them. Please keep them coming!
So many reasons to play ACO now. I hope you can direct more of your content towards the ACO. Thanks
Thanks for another video Mike! You always have great takes and we love to hear them. Keep it up!
Mike you should show us some in game footage of you throwing at a league/switch/blind draw! Let’s see you in action! Keep up the great videos
I have live streamed my league nights in the past. I may do some more in the future, if I get time.
Appreciate your comments Mike! I'd love to compete in open events and even help run them, but I can't do a 72 weekend. Maybe more limited qualifiers per year. Then there could be inner state qualifiers so players don't eat so much and they can still hit places and at the end regionals, nationals, etc...
Great video keep them coming! I’m definitely with you on that whole bag checking process! Total bogus
That's crazy that they feel it's ok to vandalize another person's property definitely not ok
I'm done with aco and acl . Just gonna play local tournaments and clubs in my area and have fun doing it . I get bag specs but a 32nd of a inch come on. Thanks mike for what you do
I was at the Myrtle Beach Open. I waited an hour between doubles games and 2 hours between singles until people were eliminated. This is because they started basically everyone at the same time and each group of about 60 people was working on ~5 boards. So the whole event required everyone, regardless of division to wait the whole 12-15 hours if they made it that far. On top of this, even the first games of the day didn't start at 9 am sharp, they started at 9:15 or so. So they couldn't even get people going when there was no backlog to work through.
They should start each division at different times. If you tell intermediate they are starting at 9, competitive at noon, advanced at 3, then you have a chance to work through each division where the players that are expecting to play are not waiting around. Then they whittle down the groups and they can be compressed onto fewer boards as the next division gets going. While this is happening other players from other divisions aren't expecting to play so they won't get mad. Maybe they don't even show up until their time. Maybe they came with someone in another division but they know what to expect. Perhaps if you run it this way you could even reserve some boards for sit and go's to keep them entertained. The whole event takes the same amount of time of course, but the individual player's time is respected. Really simple, basic fixes I am surprised the ACL hasn't figured out yet. Or maybe there's some reason why this doesn't work?
If anyone from the ACL is out there, let me know. I have a lot of ideas and would be happy to run your Department of Cornhole Efficiency.
You make excellent points. I don't know why the ACL doesn't stagger the start times for the divisions. I feel like that is standard at most large cornhole events.
On the timer deal..Scoreholio has a timer when the match is up and you can see the time on how long its been sitting there before starting...though nothing of forfeit and stuff..
Especially the outrageous price for cat bags that failed...
For that price, they should be guaranteed to pass inspection.
@MikesBags 100%
The irony of reaching out to the ACL for reimbursement is, as you said, they are terrible at responding. That would likely go nowhere without getting in to legal council.
As a bag maker I can understand these are sewn by hand, the ACL should understand that as well. 1/32” is less than the thickness of thread. As you said there does have to be a line, but there must be a better process to this.
If those were bags I had made, I’d gladly replace them for the kid with a new set. Hopefully fellow bag makers would feel the same.
I know the kid in the story mike is talking about and the dad was saying it left a bad taste in there mouth of what ACL is and alot of local players near us have had problems with ACL but nothing against ACL there will be problems no matter what they just go to know how to fix it
I finished 3rd in the competitive singles bracket at an ACL open last month. The only thing I won was a free entry into another open. ACL lost my business forever.
I assume when I purchase a set of bags it will comply to ACL standards if it has the ACL stamp. When we loose great manufacturers of bags like Ninja. Over these fees and standard verification process we loose the heart of the sport. As I practice and get better dream would someday compete in a Major event. I would certainly think my hard work and dedication perfecting the craft was the reason I got to that event. And not that my bags were 1/32 under or over.
You go Mike.
What the ACL did to that kid is criminal.
When we buy bags with the ACL's stamp of approval. We are confident that they are legal.
Now I wonder what that stamp is for if not for quality assurance besides a money grab.
I wonder the same thing. I thought the stamp meant the bags meet specifications. Now, I don't know what the stamp means.
Mike I understand your frustration. What the ACL did was wrong. The bag qualifications should not be that strict. Maybe for the pro players since they are sponsored. Maybe the rules be strict at the pro level and lesser as the levels goes down to the bottom level at tournaments.
Bowling went through this a few times.
USBC = ACL (Governing Body who Stamps the ball/bag
The manufacturer sends X products for testing to be approved.
Once approved the company mass produces them.
Once in the field, they get inspected, and... uh oh, Storm equipment tested below the minimum hardness specification.
Now, I don't know what happened behind the scenes, but usually the governing body makes a deal with the manufacturer, so that the sport doesn't kill itself with financial burden they can't recover from.
Regardless, the outcome in the bowling world, was that the manufacturer (Storm) had to recall every single model that had failed. Consumers had a 6 month window, to initiate their return, which was by submitting their ball, and selecting any new ball from the current lineup to replace it, at no charge to the customer. Those entire models were no longer legal and were unable to be used at any USBC sanctioned events.
Bowling went through the same drama, where it was PBA pro's who had balls confiscated in the middle of an ongoing tournament. And then the same exact issues with "how is testing done" "how are the testing machines calibrated" "how is the process performed altering the results" even with manufactures posting a nearly identical video that Ultra did, showing how different methods could create different results of pass/fail.
It's very interesting to watch Cornhole go through all of the same hurdles that the bowling world did not so long ago.
That's interesting. Thanks for the info. I'm going to go do a little research into bowling now.
Great Video. Great content. Great topics. The bag re-inspection, is a joke. If the ACL is going to call out failures on bags, they better understand bag materials. We have materials that stretch 1/4 inch, also larger. Why do it at the end?
That poor young man. He is a Great player. Get's screwed over. My guess he wont be back to the ACL.
How much do they want to lose..
Address bags at the beginning. Several bag manufacturers have currently changed alot of templates to meet their requirements. This game is 90% about the player, not the bags..
The ACL should be randomly checking bag makers to be sure they are compliant.
That person who marked out that poor boys bags probably had a relative that got beat by him!!😂
😂
55:00 I was thinking this when I saw Ethan Walker and Cody Henderson throwing for Scenario. Ethan is fun to watch with his block/roll game and Cody is the complete opposite. I agree that Ellis and Jacob would be a good matchup, but which bags are they throwing?
You should take 1 set of bags and break all the bags in differently, vinegar, 3 hours in the dryer, rubber mallet, boiling, throwing, etc... just to see if the initial break-in has an effect on size
I already did that. I have a video where I use 8 different methods to break in a bag. At the end, there wasn't much of a difference.
@MikesBags now that you mention it, I did watch that video
Why aren’t the bags tested by the ACL before being available to the public?
The ACL doesn't have the ability to check every bag. Plus, people have different break in methods and that will cause the bags to change some.
Hey Mike, I’m confused on the bag measurements. If the minimum for length and width is 5.75” then the diagonal would be 8.13”.
How do the bag makers get a diagonal measurement of minimum 7.3” without going under the 5.75” minimum for the length and width? What am I missing? Thx as always!
The corners are rounded and not square. The idea of a minimum diagonal is to ensure the bags are more square and less round.
I'm betting that the ACL mostly loses money or breaks even on these events. I bet the majority of their money comes from the sale of bags with the ACL stamp on them.
They need the events to keep people buying bags so they can make their money. Their events are essentially advertisements for ACL stamped bags.
The ACL only gets 15% of the bag sales. That's not going to be enough to run the league. The ACL should be getting enough money from their sponsors to cover the cost of the event. The entry fees should cover the payouts and have some left for profit.
In the NFL the balls have an air rule ask the Patriots 😂
I don't agree with the way any of this is being handled but in softball they'll scratch the stamp off your bat if they deem it illegal. those bats can be $350+. I think they do it to make sure they can't use them anymore since they can't monitor every ACL event.
In softball, if a bat is illegal, it can't be fixed. If a bag is slightly too small, it can be stretched and become legal. That's what the ACL is missing.
The ACL stamp is only indicative that at initial point of sale the bag conformed to the specifications put forth under ACL guidelines -
The ONLY way to ensure perfect conformity to standards is for the ACL to provide the bags thrown before each match.
Even the NFL had deflategate - so 🤷♂️
Isn’t the diagonal measurement the reason why Gladiator had to change from their “octagon” corner design?
Bag companies know that bags are going to break in as they are thrown. I feel like they need to ensure that the bag is also going to be within specs after it breaks in.
I don't know for sure about Gladiator. That diagonal measurement may have been what caused them to change.
The ACL are fast becoming farcical with their bag policy.
The whole stamp process is a bit of a Ponzi scheme.
The ACL set bag standards, collect a fee on every bag sold, aren’t transparent on how they measure bags, then have absolute authority on cancelling bags.
I understand the need to have standards on bags but it should be a stamp from a different body, other than the leagues issuing them.
Isn’t making on someone’s bags, “destruction of property”? That’s against the law.
Sorry. Marking on someone’s bags is destruction of property
That's a great question and I don't know the answer. I tried to research that before this video but I couldn't find any examples that were similar to this. To me, once you buy the bags, they are your property and I don't think the ACL has a right to mark on them. They can refuse to allow you to use them in an ACL event if they don't meet the standards/
ACL. ACL. ACL. To much wishy washy stuff going to start running people off instead of bringing more people in . To much drama i. Life already I don’t want more of it in My hobby’s also. 37:46
Also this was for no money, i get it more if it was for $$
The ACL is starting to sound like joke the last couple of months. Bag makers and customers are paying extra for that stamp, meaning they were approved by the ACL for use. How they break down should not be a reason to penalize players for using their bags. Make bags legal up to 2 years. After that, they're now longer approved for ACL events, is it that hard?
Not understanding the science completely, but I do NOT under any circumstance, think it should be the player's responsibility. They purchased it, and has a reasonable expectation that a stamped bag meets appropriate specifications. Bags are honestly too fluid to perfectly measure, but too small is too small. investigate the company, leave the players alone.
I think the company should be suspended from making bags for awhile at least with ACL stamp. It sucks for the kid or for anyone for that matter. The kid could have done work and saved up. And for anyone else if you by 3 different sets for example with the stamp (200-300 dollars) and doesn't count if the measurements are off. Nevermind we all have that money just laying around right?😤
Next time can you be a little more clear on where you stand on ACL reps marking out ACL stamps, you seemed a little vague.
🤣
So youre telling me i cant throw my 21-22 BG viking/wizards. Imma see if i can get my money back from BG
You clearly didn't understand the video.