Browsing the list, see this, think "we have one of those at the museum", watch vid, realise we've cocked up on our exhibit because we display rod grenades as being its ammo. That'll need fixing.
It's really impressive (and to me at least a little surprising) that a single .303 blank has enough energy in it to propel such a fairly big and chunky grenade over such a long distance.
It doesn't. They didn't use blanks. The correct terminology was Cartridge Rifle Grenade, Ballistite H Mk 1 (or Mk 1Z), which used a different propellent to the actual blanks that had a different burn rate. Using actual blanks would damage the rifle.
@@nate8867 Slow clap for you then. I'm sure if you could be bothered, you could confirm I'm correct in about a minute, but that would take more work than simply watching a youtube video, you might even need to think. I guess my 25 years spent as a military armourer gets trumped by someone on youtube, but whatever floats your boat.
@@stephenallen4635 Which point? The one where he incorrectly calls it a blank, or the one where he chooses to be wilfully ignorant when presented with the correct information? My final response may have been a bit curt, but I spent the time to give him the correct information about the cartridge, and he was dismissive. I guess I made the mistake of assuming the viewers of this channel were enthusiasts who would appreciate the correct data. I really couldn't be arsed arguing the point, he can believe me or not, was my point. Perhaps if I had a youtube channel his simple mind would equate that to expertise, apparently that is the measure of professional qualification these days.
a shortened SMLE with a grenade cup like the one shown here was used by George Lucas in star wars to create the ion blaster used by the Jawas in episode 4
Most guns in the original trilogy were modified real weapons - and rare ones, at that. Stormtrooper guns are altered Sterlings, Lewis guns, and MG-34s. The Rebel forces had very rare Sterling muzzle-charging SMG's. Princess Leia's pistol looks suspiciously like a modified Welrod; Han Solo, of course, had an 1898 pattern Mauser, given a sight, and what looks like an MG-34 muzzle brake. Ponda Baba, the alien thug who hits Luke in the Mos Eisley Cantina, carries something far weirder - a cut down Sten, with a mortar bomb tail as it's barrel. I know of people who wept at such butchery.
I notice one neat feature: the gas venting hole, when correctly aligned, is straight downward. Since the rifle is expected to be fired upside down, the vented gas would be directed upward, presumably lower the recoil a little bit and avoid throwing a cloud of dust betraying the shooter's position.
With the added frisson, unlike the cup launcher, the release lever flew off as soon as the pin was pulled, This rifle-grenade-and attached shooter will destruct in 5 seconds unless trigger is pulled. In case of misfire...Oh SHHHH.......
Ian, Thanks for the video!!! My Grandfather was a "Bomb" instructor during the Great War and trained troops after his wounding in Turkey. since I own a number of SMLEs and the same Grenade Launcher I know them rather well. My grandfather told me of several new recruits breaking their legs while resting the rifles on the top of their legs rather than the ground. Recoil claim is confirmed! The Launcher that you had mounted on the rifle during the video was mounted upside down, the curved notice fits over the bayonet lug.
When these first came on the surplus market, it was noted a tennis ball fits just right in the cup, and that you could launch tennis balls if you find blanks. Never saw it myself, but it sounds fun.
As an ex-pat, grew up in in various commonwealth countries and I've only ever seen these in regimental museum and public museums. Very cool, Ian! Oddly enough I've seen these more often in the US.
Another excellent and informative video! I've qualified with a modern M-203 grenade launcher, and it's so interesting to see this early British model in such detail!
Ian's right that these used to be fairly common. Around ten years ago a local sporting goods store had one on it's shelf that they just could not get rid of. After seeing it there every time I went in for well over a month, I finally took it home with me. I think it cost me about $250. Several years later I found a grenade cup online for $100 so now I have the complete set! Some day I'd like to get some .303 blanks and shoot some tennis balls out of this, but until then it's just a cool conversation starter and a fun plinker.
My mates dad used to get us to chuck thunderflashes at the police guarding the duke of York's barracks. He said the police guarding the army was quote " unbritish" 😂 wouldn't get away with it nowadays
in the french army we use again the grenade launcher and every body in my platoon loved it , that was very fun and extrêmly accurate Until 300m with 5 % to shot directly an human target else ver shot less 5 m and the anti tank grenade launcher is cool and we shooted ever the target and it can detsroy an 15 t tank easily . if we had that in 1940 100 000 brave soldiers wouldnt dead in les 4 weeks th others run away but only the english soldiers leaved dunkerque , but since this war xe are speclaly trained for to destroy the ligth tanks with our grenades we have our individual mortar and ligth anti tank weapon for only 0 500 Kg of more , but we begin to loose that I prefer to have my onwn mortar and one anti tank weapons and when you live run and wallk with your gun you shoot better , in the french army , we never use scope for rlfle until 300 m even th noob or the dumber can shot his target to 300 m , I dreamed to have a scope , for my rifle but th catin answered me that I would the last of the company to have a scope . thhe FS 49 56 grenadlauncher is more fun and until 400 m it is easyer ti shot a target to 400 m with the grenade launcher than to shot directly with the rifle ? whan i see an american movie with robot or ,alien I laught in france We can answer with ou grenades launchers, even if he is weak and complexe and old I loved the famas that is a swiss knife sub machine gun rifle lightmachine gun with pipod and burst 3 mortar and anti tank weapon , for les 3,500 Kg today the croatian VHS is the famas new generation no one disadvantage of the famas only it advantages . light compact accurate versatile with a famas you have all the solutions ou are an individual army but the musketeers . 4 soldiers .
The simplicity of changing range by adjusting gas pressure instead of angle is just awesome. Throughout the whole video though I kept thinking knee mortar, even though this predates that. I do wonder : was there anything in the manuals for those two weapons showing how to achieve a higher arc for clearing walls and such?
In WW1 the rod grenades were also phased out because of wasted material in the rod itself. Many tons of steel that had to be stored and transported could be used elsewhere in a time of shortages.
Quinn Reeder His video vary pretty widely in run time based on how much he has to say about the history, mechanics, shooting etc.. I watch the shorter videos during my daily routine (5-10 min) and save the feature length (15+) for evenings or what have you.
Although it's more work for the creator, I prefer the longer videos. I don't like videos where details are glossed over and a lot of potentially interesting content is cut simply to keep to running time down. But really, it depends on the nature of the content and I think Forgotten Weapons lends itself to longer videos.
What was even worse about the rod rifle grenades: they tended to detonate when they were launched because the rods got stuck in the barrel long enough for the impact fuze to arm and set the whole thing off when the grenade finally left the barrel. Both Germany and France eventually replaced them with rifle grenades with a bullet channel that were fired with a normal cartridge: the bullet went through the tunnel, set of the timer fuze, and the hot gas following the bullet launched the grenade itself. Quite an interesting time for the development of (rifle) grenades. The stuff they came up with would even make steam-punks drool. :D
whats worse about those different rod grenades was you put it in the barrel, loaded your blank, pulled the pin and immediately fired. Because there was no method to retain the handle. Until they developed a large ring held on by your bayonet.
wow. amazing! your videos are so well researched, and articulated. I have only seen drawings of the SMLE cup launcher, and read about it in books. I really enjoy logging onto this channel and not only learn about weapons I've only read about, but to see them? to see how they work? it 's really rewarding to me to see what your doing for the old girls. cheers, keep up the excellent work!
You are by far my favorite TH-cam channel with your extraordinarily informative history and extremely diverse variety of firearms you present on. I have been watching the channel since the very first style of intro you had years ago and I have to say your speaking skills when not having any type of prompter or script have developed to be top notch.
You know. When I see weapons like this, particularly those used in wars (WW1, WW2 etc) I can't help thinking about what this weapon did. How many life's did it claim, how many life's did it save. Did the guy who was issued this survive the war and wonder what he thought of this weapon. So much emotion is connected to these weapons. So much history. Being British, I cant help feeling an essence of pride when I think what this gun and it's user went through for me and my fellow countrymen. Really do like seeing these type of guns. Keep em coming.
In the case of rifles, very few of them would actually kill anyone, even in combat units. Artillery, mortars, machineguns and hand grenades did the vast majority of the killing and maiming (talking +90%).
It's still pretty much the same ratio. After WWII, a US Military study found that out of all the Allied combat troops, only 4% ever aimed at an enemy soldier and of those 4%, only half actually took deliberate aim and shot to kill, even though they were under the belief that all enemy soldiers were trying to kill them. The rest did something you tend to see on footage from current conflicts - stick your weapon out around a corner and empty the mag in the general direction or something similar. Just like WWI, the vast majority of combat deaths were caused by artillery/mortars/grenades and indirect suppressive fire such as that from heavy machine guns.
J Corbett It´s really a matter of psychology - a rifleman can get away with not firing at those enemy soldiers 300m away, because you don´t really depend on him. He knows this, and will find excuses (conciously or not) to abstain from firing until the enemy is a direct threat to him and he has to defend *his* life. A machinegunner doesn´t have this "luxury", because if he doesn´t atleast fire *at* the enemy (thus surpessing them), he will put his comrades´ lives at risk and get into trouble with the squad leader. Funny, the Germans actually put this into doctrine before WW2 - they didn´t even expect the riflemen to really do anything before they got into close combat, except firing at exposed targets of opportunity, if they could (which most couldn´t). All the gunwork before getting within 50m was done with the squad machine gun/s, and most of the close combat was done with grenades, which you can use without actually seeing your enemy. It´s largely why they opted for the MG34 instead of a "proper" lmg like the Bren - they knew the rifleman was obselete, thus they wanted firepower.
After some coastal erosion beside an area that was a training camp for soldiers departing to the Western Front, we started to find old unexploded Mills Bombs and rod grenades. One Mills bomb still had the fly off lever and pin in place. The misfired rod grenades were something else. A lot of them, even after almost 100 years in the sea sand, their mechanisms still worked. They exploded on impact with a blued firing pin which had a safety feature of two brass balls in a groove in the firing pin which were held in place by a brass sleeve. When fired, the sleeve slid back, releasing the brass balls to free the firing pin to travel forward to set off the grenade on impact. It's not every day you take a spring the thickness of a hair from the sea and find that it is still a spring.
Some units in the Canadian Expeditionary Force in 1917 modified rifles by shortening the the barrels and remounting the muzzle caps. The shortened NoIII’s were used by the units designated for mopping up during attacks. The shorter barrel fired the grenades farther and faster and were more handy when employed in trenches.
I would love for you to do an overview on the legendary SMLE Mk III, your analysis and explanations always seem so understandable and just overall intelligent! Keep up the good work, loving it
My great uncle had a large grenade collection in his shed. This cache included rod grenades and a stick bomb and an early Mills type with a brass cap over a wooden plunger. I spent time messing around with these "inert" demo training items which turned out to be live and in some cases, crystalline!
The rod grenades usually damaged a rifle to the point that it was no longer useful as a rifle. A fire team or squad would often have a dedicated grenade launching rifle, which sort of defeated the purpose of having a grenade that could be launched using a rifleman's own rifle, might as well just issue a small mortar which would have greater accuracy and range.
So did the Allies. In the Battle of the Falaise Gap in 1944, modified 105 shells were fired with leaflets encouraging the Germans to surrender. Britain also used radio propaganda, using the worlds most powerful radio transmitter codenamed Aspidistra. The name came from a Gracie Fields song at the time The Biggest Aspidistra in the World.
So that's how they worked! I was in the Australian School Army Cadets sixty years ago (Was it THAT long ago! :o) ) & our lecture dummy Grenade had a screw on Base for one of those. We never had the launcher or saw one however. (The "Toys" they gave us as kids in those days - Rifles, Sub Machine Guns, Vickers Machine Guns, Brens, 3" Mortars etc & fired them)
It was a special blank round that was needed, not the standard pyrotechnic training round. Also the trigger was to be snatched, not squeezed, using the thumb.
These grenade launcher cups were used in the Far East well into the 1950s. Because they were time fused rifle grenades could be fired in jungle without risking premature detonation in the tree cover. As could happen with contact fused 2" mortar bombs.
The French used one that _required_ normal ammunition with the grenade launcher. The grenade had a hole in the middle where the bullet passed through, and it hit a trip plate which activated the delayed ignition. The muzzle blast launched it.
That type is known as a Bullet trap Rifle Grenade. The British did experiment with them, one major problem was maximum range was inside blast radius of a 36 Mills Grenade. The 36 grenade is known as an offensive grenade, it slings lots of sharp fragments about, the case is designed to split into 36 parts. The German Stick Grenade is a Defensive type, it relys on blast rather fragments, so if you get to lose you maybe deaf for bit but not shreeded.
I can recall as a young boy going into a gun store with my Dad, and having the store owner tell us that the wire wrap was decoration from "some Arab country". Shame I didn't know better (or had money) because they used to sell for $50 or less because "they were broken and not safe to shoot".
An aside item... As the founder of the WWII HRS, when we began shooting blanks that nobody had wanted, the Brits found them selves with two choices; original British .303 training blanks and the very similar in appearance grenade launching blank. Back then, British re-enactors despised the original UK service blank because they were anemic. However the UK Grenade Launching Blank was very much, much, more powerful, so much so that when fired, they sound almost as loud as a live .303 round! Years before PRIVI began importing a good blanks, along with other calibers, we re-enactors found ourselves forced to make our own! With a PRIVI blank, a SMLE, and a cup launcher one can today have great fun launching tennis balls at an imaginary enemy. There is a YT video that shows several folks doing exactly this. If you watch this other video, take note of my comment regarding the recoil of a normal blank cartridge firing a light tennis ball. It is hardly noticeable. Using the correct real items and launching a heavy grenade, even an inert one is something, as Monty Python would have said, "Completely different."
I have a great story involving a grenade from one of these I was doing a battlefield tour course in France during my first year of university and we went to lichfield crater cemetery and we are looking around. The whole time when we were preparing to go on this trip our professor told us to never pick up anything that looks like a potato. So after we have looked around the cemetery our professor starts to lecture and once hes done he asks us if we have any questions and one guy behind him says "I found a potato" and he is holding a rifle grenade from a SMLE. The Professor go on about how dangerous these are and how most of us would be dead and told his to just leave it and one of the caretakers will contact some one to dispose of it
Northern France and Belgium still have the legacy known as the Iron Harvest. Drive along and you will see piles of shells and other ordnance on the side of the road waiting for the Ordnance disposal guys to collect them, your land, you move to a convinent pick up point. Biggest worry on any construction or arceology on the battlefields are gas shells. You will see wind flags all around site were they are digging so you know which way to run in case of any sudden funny smells.
@@unclestoma4699 Oh yes. Before digging any hole in the area check the wind direction. No kiddng you put a wind marker. Especially if you are using a machine. On one occasion, so I'm told , a farmer got permisisn to blow up some concrete . The Blasters came in, set a small charge and set it off. About half a hectare went up as the concrete had been left over an old ammo dump. Another story is of the bloke who took a shell as a souvenir. When he got home to England his Wife got quite upset demanding to know if it was safe. Of course he hadn't a clue. So she told him to take it back. Which he did only to get stopped for speeding in Kent. The Police asked him 'What's in the back?' The subsequent clousre caused total cahos for hours.
One thing that was not mentioned. Normandy landing bunkers ax example, hand grenade is not an option until you are dead, mortar will not get inside the bunker but this thing can be shot with enough luck right inside, disabling the bunker crew. Something that other types of explosive were not able to accomplish
I knew these were used in WW1 though I had not realised how extensively. I am surprised, though, that they were still in service into the 1940s as the 2 in mortar was so widely used at squad level at the time. And being a mortar they would have a higher rate of fire. You could drop several rounds downrange in quick succession. Well a couple of new facts learned today. Thanks
Present day use: can be used to launch tennis balls down range with a blank round. To see this in action, check out the video on my channel. It's tons of fun to fire one.
I learn so much from Forgotten Weapons (and InRangeTV) that I wouldn't be half bad if I found myself as a recruit in the old strategy game Silent Storm.
I have seen this done with shotguns and Molotov cocktails. Same thought, blank cartridge using a wooden rod with a wood or metal plate on which a Molotov is glued or duct taped to the plate.
Looks like an ingenious system- easy to manufacture and simple to use. The Mills bombs i have seen are large for a hand grenade- i am sure they were effective. The pkate on the bottom is certainly a good idea- it would have made the propulsion more consistent. That would have made it easier to dtermine the proper vent settings for different ranges. Great video as always. Thank you
The AT grenade with the SMLE cup grenade launcher was the No.68 (HEAT). It could penetrate up to 32mm. of armour plate and was used during the BEF in France 1940, where it proved to be next to useless versus a German panzer.
In Yugoslavia this was called drunk Ustasha because Serbs didn't understand how could Croats throw a grenade over 50m. (I think it was the different gun but it's the same concept)
Saw a feature the other day about German WWII rifle grenade launchers and rifle grenades; needless to say it was technologically much more advanced with sophisticated sighting systems, dual purpose fuses (contact / time delayed) etc.. Such a German thing to do. The British design something that works well, doesn't require a lot of modification, is easy to use and is cost effective. The logistics of war.
Also known, at least in Australia, as the 'EY' rifle from an abbreviation of 'Emergency' (pronounced eee-why) and were 'in reserve' up through the 1960's. The wrist area of the butt was also often reinforced with wire as they tended to break at the end of the stock bolt holding the butt onto the action.
My Grandfather was hit by rifle grenade in late of WW2, April 23rd, 1945, Grepplin, Germany. He said one when off but landed far from his right. He predicted that the next one was coming right towards him, he was right, he heard it go off and he went prone and covered his face. He survived but had a lot of shrapnel in his right hand and his butt. He got up on his own and retreated to the creek that they crossed few minutes before the attack. Then he got help at that point by field medics.
About the ratio of hand grenades to rifle grenades produced. I would assume from appearances that a rifle grenade could also be hand thrown, it would have a longer fusing of course. But a hand grenade could not be fired as a rifle grenade.
There is some pretty good footage of grenades being fired in the film 'The Battle of the Ancre and the Advance of the Tanks'. I can't find any online footage but its worth a watch if you can find it.
Australians sometime used these in Vietnam ILO m79, they preferred the penetration of undergrowth this heavier 'round' offered. Oh and don't fire from shoulder, ever.
I may be wrong. But I believe in the trenches of gallipoli Australian troops added wire to SMLE 303 in WWI. At least I have seen them in the war memorial in Canberra years ago
IIRC, it comes mostly from a cold war era strategy of having every foot soldier armed with AP rifle grenades. That way a simple infantry team can slow down, if not stop, the progression of APCs while the upper echelon shuffles troops around and provides AT troops or MBTs.
daktari its more than just that.. rifle grenades hold more boom for weight than 40mm also you dont need a heavy attachment(m203,etc) and like you said everybody in the section gets them
It packs both a more punch and also more range than the M203. The NATO rifle grenade replaced light mortars (like the good'ol 60mm) in terms of range and exploding power. The 40mm grenade launchers are pretty handy (lower kick and the ability to use both main ammo and grenade side by side) but doesn't have the same range. The French APAV40 anti-tank grenades are well known for having a lot of kick but also a longer range compared to the standard NATO grenades and makes any rifleman pack the power of a M72 LAW launcher. The Israeli also use ridle grenades, but in more specialized roles like blowing up doors from a distance.
A bit of a dumb question, but is it possible to fire the rifle normally with dischargers like these attached? Or if you get jumped by the hun while you're getting into position, would you have to remove the grenade, the blank, *and* the cup before you could take shots at them?
Pretty interesting that my Yugoslavian M59/66A1 SKS has the NATO 22 mm grenade launcher spigot as well. It's a neat feature that sets it apart from other SKS rifles.
Ian u forgot a very important adjustment on the spigot launcher. The threaded sleeve in the center rear is shaped to mach the muzzle, its adjusted from inside top of launcher with a wide screwdriver, u snug up the unit loosely then tighten inner centering sleeve, then tighten the launcher the last little bit. I just got 5 drill purpose rifles from CAI for $85 ea w/launchers, their in a lot better shape than I expected, just 2 have damaged toes. 2 have no stacking swivels, 2 havent been drilled for a swivel just a boss is there, 1 doesnt even have the boss at all. I thought this to be odd😊
After watching this again. The Triang mark on the renforcing bolt. That is the trade mark of the Triang Toy company, who were also responsible for the Production Enginnering pahse of the STEN gun.
Just got mine yesterday. The rifle and the grenade cup. If any of you just want the cup go to Springfield Sporters they have the cups for $100 and free shipping.
Grenades themselves really fell out of favor by the end of the 19th century and most armies didn't re adopt them until WW1. That's because most grenades until WW1 were simple iron/steel balls filled with black powder and shot, and detonated by a simple lit fuse (there were impact detonated grenades used in the American Civil war but they often didn't detonate reliably). This made them difficult to use, unreliable, and often dangerous to the user or his comrades. Not until WW1 and improved fuses were developed did they become practical again, and the war showed the need for a form of "individual artillery". Then you see a proliferation of hand grenades, rifle grenades, and light weight mortars that gave this ability organic to a small infantry unit.
If you are going to fire one of these SMLEs make sure it is not stamped EY -- meaning -- Do not fire ball except in an emergency. -- meaning-- unless the Zulus were tickling your kidneys with a spear, They are dangerous to fire. This mark will be on the Barrel,on the knox form,receiver,& furniture, there is also DP -- Drill purpose only --stamped in the same places.
A number of years ago, back when these were coming in by the crateload and cost almost nothing, there used to be a local militaria show in Fort Worth, and one year there was a British sailor that had served on a destroyer leader during the war. He mentioned they had 2 of these rifles with launcher cups on the ship towards the end of the war (he didn't specify year, but I would assume that he meant 1944-45) that were exclusively provided with blanks and a variety of signal flares for communicating with other ships in case of radio failure. I always found that interesting, and I often wonder if the naval examples were marked in any way to differentiate them from the land service variants. Of course, after FTR and decades of abuse as training weapons in the Indian army, any such markings would likely be obliterated, but it would be interesting to find any evidence of them.
Seems very similar in design philosophy to the Japanese knee mortar. What I mean by that is the fixed 45 degree with gas venting as the distance control.
In one of the later episodes of Mythbusters they tested what happens when you shoot a grenade... a pistol will knock a hole through the side, a slug will shatter the case, but a rifle round will actually set off the main charge. I can see one of those going off in your trench leading to a real bad day.
Technically the rifle round would have set off the detonator, which would have set off the main charge. A grenade main charge should not detonate with just the impact or even penetration from a bullet.
These will also fire tennis balls. Soda cans are too large, but a Coors Lite can with some wadding behind it is also fun. DO NOT FORGET THE WADDING, or you will end up with a beer mist that will coat everything nearby. Speaking from personal experience.
Strange idea this.. most were only dismounted for cleaning as a specif8c rifle was fitted and then used with for this purpose.. they could just as well have made an entirely separate weapon..
We talk so casually about assaulting a position, the reality is terrifying, even if the opposition are untrained yobbos. The whole thing is a crap shoot, pure luck, if you’re seen, you’re dead, if they have fortified positions with automatic weapons, you’re dead, if they are determined, you’re dead etc. I can’t even comprehend thousands “going over the top” in WW1.
Ian, How about the rifle grenade for the M1 Garand? I always remember the bit in the film 'Battle of the Bulge' where Charles Bronson tells a soldier how to to use one.
At the start of W W1 the British had no standard grenade. The expdient was to use tins from the issue Tickler's Plum and Apple jam packed with gun cotton anda fuse, to 'Tickle' up the Germans. In 1915 William Mills designed the Mills Bomb, going through various developments till the type 36 (Shown in the video ) was standardised. The term Bomb being used in the British Army through out WW1. Initailly the rod grenade was fired from a half cup, problem being you pulled the saftey pin, and nothing held the lever down, an exciting five seconds . The full cup No 2 launcher and 7 second fuse was introduced around late 1917 early 1918 . This held the fly off lever allowing the saftey pin to be removed and giving time to aim and fire. By 1917 British tactics for assualt favoured the 'Bomber'. Two or three men in a section carrying only Mills bombs would lead an attack with the riflemen there primarly as support and close protection. The blanks used to fire the grenades were Ballisiste, previously discarded by the British as a primary propellant in favour of Cordite. In the 1950's 60's the Energa anti tank rifle grenade was issued, range at about 10 yards. Official description of use 'At a range of 10 yards , it requires a determined man'.
Actually the British did have a hand grenade at the start of the Great War, the Mark I, adopted in 1908. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._1_grenadeIt had a wooden handle to increase leverage and, hence range. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._1_grenade#/media/File:HandGrenadeNo1Mk1.jpgBUT"When the battlefield became confined to the trenches, the long handle became a liability, causing several accidents. Reaching back for the throw, the fuse could strike the trench side.[3] The No. 3, a variant of the No. 1, had a shorter handle for easier use in trenches."The reason for improvised devices was"Manufacturing the No. 1 was difficult, as it required a special detonator that could only be produced by the ordnance factories. Because of this, the British Expeditionary Force got far fewer No. 1s than were ordered"
Huh. Just found my old comment here. Well, just an update - I did in fact find a grenade cup for my wire-wrapped SMLE. I suppose this video inspired me to finally find it. The complete set is a wonderful part of my collection.
@@zul448 now you need .303 blanks to launch tennis balls into the next county! I don't know if the Brit Royal Navy was using smles for line launching, but that may be a useful source for blanks to use.
Ian, you mentioned a Brazilian Mauser in this lot. Have you ever done anything on the 1912 Argentine 7.65 Mauser? I have a close to new condition carbine I would let you shoot.
Ball and stick referres to the shape of the divided propellant. Fine powder propellants burn slowly. Ball or corned, more quickly and stick, which appease as tiny extruded star shaped hollow tubes or sticks, is more efficient. Although this is know widely, many insist guns still fire out musket balls. Sorry, accurate over no usable range.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 84 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องศึก vs เมืองไทย"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3kuzsAIDf1c/mqdefault.jpg)
I have one of these. It's a 1916 with a very minimal wrap on it. With some good blanks and a few tennis balls you can have a pretty good time.
Federer, Nadal, the Williams sisters... are they up to the challenge? LOL
Targetpopper you just gave me a great idea
That will give the dogs a good run.
I have one of the grenades for it.
Would a regular SMLE with no reinforcement be safe with tennis balls?
You say grenade cup, I say vintage can cannon.
I came down just to like this old comment. ;)
The *CAN* non
Fits in a can and sends the enemy down the can!
It's a snow cone maker.
Browsing the list, see this, think "we have one of those at the museum", watch vid, realise we've cocked up on our exhibit because we display rod grenades as being its ammo. That'll need fixing.
:)
Do you cite Ian in the footnotes of the display?
It's really impressive (and to me at least a little surprising) that a single .303 blank has enough energy in it to propel such a fairly big and chunky grenade over such a long distance.
It doesn't. They didn't use blanks. The correct terminology was Cartridge Rifle Grenade, Ballistite H Mk 1 (or Mk 1Z), which used a different propellent to the actual blanks that had a different burn rate. Using actual blanks would damage the rifle.
@@nzgunnie no offense man but I’m gonna listen to the expert video I’m watching
@@nate8867 Slow clap for you then. I'm sure if you could be bothered, you could confirm I'm correct in about a minute, but that would take more work than simply watching a youtube video, you might even need to think. I guess my 25 years spent as a military armourer gets trumped by someone on youtube, but whatever floats your boat.
@@nzgunnie none of that actually changes the point of his comment. It sounds more like you're just being an ass
@@stephenallen4635 Which point? The one where he incorrectly calls it a blank, or the one where he chooses to be wilfully ignorant when presented with the correct information?
My final response may have been a bit curt, but I spent the time to give him the correct information about the cartridge, and he was dismissive. I guess I made the mistake of assuming the viewers of this channel were enthusiasts who would appreciate the correct data. I really couldn't be arsed arguing the point, he can believe me or not, was my point. Perhaps if I had a youtube channel his simple mind would equate that to expertise, apparently that is the measure of professional qualification these days.
"dropping it from a height of twelve to fourteen feet"
*Something falls down in the background*
Grenades always put a SM(i)LE on my face.
absolutely hilarious comment
I see what you did there :)
Unless they explode near your face, then they will quite literally wipe it off.
ba dum tss!
PleaseDontWatchThese ?
a shortened SMLE with a grenade cup like the one shown here was used by George Lucas in star wars to create the ion blaster used by the Jawas in episode 4
please like this so other can see
Sam Guglin Its true. Great eye
oh yeah!!! wow!
I mean, it was probably a prop guy, not George Lucas. But sure, I totally see that now!
They also used parts from the rod grenades for the lightsabers.
Most guns in the original trilogy were modified real weapons - and rare ones, at that. Stormtrooper guns are altered Sterlings, Lewis guns, and MG-34s. The Rebel forces had very rare Sterling muzzle-charging SMG's. Princess Leia's pistol looks suspiciously like a modified Welrod; Han Solo, of course, had an 1898 pattern Mauser, given a sight, and what looks like an MG-34 muzzle brake. Ponda Baba, the alien thug who hits Luke in the Mos Eisley Cantina, carries something far weirder - a cut down Sten, with a mortar bomb tail as it's barrel. I know of people who wept at such butchery.
I notice one neat feature: the gas venting hole, when correctly aligned, is straight downward. Since the rifle is expected to be fired upside down, the vented gas would be directed upward, presumably lower the recoil a little bit and avoid throwing a cloud of dust betraying the shooter's position.
"Rod grenades?" You mean, "the best bottle rockets ever."
Rock Island Auction Company Best joke I've heard today.
Rock Island Auction Company and this is why I only deal with you guys when buying rare firearms.
With the added frisson, unlike the cup launcher, the release lever flew off as soon as the pin was pulled, This rifle-grenade-and attached shooter will destruct in 5 seconds unless trigger is pulled. In case of misfire...Oh SHHHH.......
Rock Island Auction Company not a rocket. Rockets have a rocket engine on it.
They aren't referencing a rocket, but a toy. Meany. =P
Ian,
Thanks for the video!!! My Grandfather was a "Bomb" instructor during the Great War and trained troops after his wounding in Turkey. since I own a number of SMLEs and the same Grenade Launcher I know them rather well. My grandfather told me of several new recruits breaking their legs while resting the rifles on the top of their legs rather than the ground. Recoil claim is confirmed! The Launcher that you had mounted on the rifle during the video was mounted upside down, the curved notice fits over the bayonet lug.
When these first came on the surplus market, it was noted a tennis ball fits just right in the cup, and that you could launch tennis balls if you find blanks. Never saw it myself, but it sounds fun.
They shoot about 150 yards lol
As an ex-pat, grew up in in various commonwealth countries and I've only ever seen these in regimental museum and public museums. Very cool, Ian! Oddly enough I've seen these more often in the US.
Another excellent and informative video! I've qualified with a modern M-203 grenade launcher, and it's so interesting to see this early British model in such detail!
Ian's right that these used to be fairly common. Around ten years ago a local sporting goods store had one on it's shelf that they just could not get rid of. After seeing it there every time I went in for well over a month, I finally took it home with me. I think it cost me about $250. Several years later I found a grenade cup online for $100 so now I have the complete set! Some day I'd like to get some .303 blanks and shoot some tennis balls out of this, but until then it's just a cool conversation starter and a fun plinker.
good evening from Australia. enjoying the history of weapons I'll never get to hold or shoot
adam middleton why not
adam middleton u can buy a lee Enfield in Australia
Oh just a joke about the gun laws over here. I know all bolt actions and such are legal over here. Mainly referring to the fun stuff
adam middleton I live in the uk and have a legally deactivated 1939 smle mk3
Mark Bolton American here. I feel stupid asking this question but what's a "nipper"? I'm assuming it means a child given the context you're using.
My grandad used to love scaring the shit out of my friends by throwing his inert WWII grenade while lighting a banger.
How in the world did your grandad get a sausage to light?
You see, if it's greasy enough.... But seriously, "banger" means firecracker in this context.
My mates dad used to get us to chuck thunderflashes at the police guarding the duke of York's barracks. He said the police guarding the army was quote " unbritish" 😂 wouldn't get away with it nowadays
Ah, back in the day when you wouldn't be thrown into prison for that
Ahhhh WW1... Back when anyone could use a grenade launcher without being a noob.
LMAI XD XD WOW GOOD JOB NOOHS READ DIS AND TELEPORT TO WWI
in the french army we use again the grenade launcher and every body in my platoon loved it , that was very fun and extrêmly accurate Until 300m with 5 % to shot directly an human target else ver shot less 5 m and the anti tank grenade launcher is cool and we shooted ever the target and it can detsroy an 15 t tank easily . if we had that in 1940 100 000 brave soldiers wouldnt dead in les 4 weeks th others run away but only the english soldiers leaved dunkerque , but since this war xe are speclaly trained for to destroy the ligth tanks with our grenades we have our individual mortar and ligth anti tank weapon for only 0 500 Kg of more , but we begin to loose that I prefer to have my onwn mortar and one anti tank weapons and when you live run and wallk with your gun you shoot better , in the french army , we never use scope for rlfle until 300 m even th noob or the dumber can shot his target to 300 m , I dreamed to have a scope , for my rifle but th catin answered me that I would the last of the company to have a scope . thhe FS 49 56 grenadlauncher is more fun and until 400 m it is easyer ti shot a target to 400 m with the grenade launcher than to shot directly with the rifle ? whan i see an american movie with robot or ,alien I laught in france We can answer with ou grenades launchers, even if he is weak and complexe and old I loved the famas that is a swiss knife sub machine gun rifle lightmachine gun with pipod and burst 3 mortar and anti tank weapon , for les 3,500 Kg today the croatian VHS is the famas new generation no one disadvantage of the famas only it advantages . light compact accurate versatile with a famas you have all the solutions ou are an individual army but the musketeers . 4 soldiers .
Duane Sarjec bro nobody is able to read your writing. I’m sorry
@@duanesarjec6887 I'm able to read your writing, thank you for sharing your experience with rifle grenades.
“Fukin noob tube faggot”
- random British soldier
The simplicity of changing range by adjusting gas pressure instead of angle is just awesome. Throughout the whole video though I kept thinking knee mortar, even though this predates that. I do wonder : was there anything in the manuals for those two weapons showing how to achieve a higher arc for clearing walls and such?
It's not just the simplicity, it's maintaining the optimum trajectory for dropping the grenade on top of the target.
In WW1 the rod grenades were also phased out because of wasted material in the rod itself. Many tons of steel that had to be stored and transported could be used elsewhere in a time of shortages.
I saw one of those at a gun show hear in Phoenix Arizona.. You Know more about this rifle then the guy at the gun show did. Thank you.
Hope you'll get your hands on other Nations grenade-launching Rifles from the Era.
He did a video on his InRangeTV channel on, I believe, German rifle grenades.
Edit: Guess it was US Grenades
th-cam.com/video/161JT0WRVf4/w-d-xo.html
Quinn Reeder His video vary pretty widely in run time based on how much he has to say about the history, mechanics, shooting etc.. I watch the shorter videos during my daily routine (5-10 min) and save the feature length (15+) for evenings or what have you.
Although it's more work for the creator, I prefer the longer videos. I don't like videos where details are glossed over and a lot of potentially interesting content is cut simply to keep to running time down.
But really, it depends on the nature of the content and I think Forgotten Weapons lends itself to longer videos.
You can turn them off at anytime. Like when you have learned all you want to. I will watch till the end though.
What was even worse about the rod rifle grenades: they tended to detonate when they were launched because the rods got stuck in the barrel long enough for the impact fuze to arm and set the whole thing off when the grenade finally left the barrel. Both Germany and France eventually replaced them with rifle grenades with a bullet channel that were fired with a normal cartridge: the bullet went through the tunnel, set of the timer fuze, and the hot gas following the bullet launched the grenade itself.
Quite an interesting time for the development of (rifle) grenades. The stuff they came up with would even make steam-punks drool. :D
whats worse about those different rod grenades was you put it in the barrel, loaded your blank, pulled the pin and immediately fired. Because there was no method to retain the handle. Until they developed a large ring held on by your bayonet.
wow. amazing! your videos are so well researched, and articulated. I have only seen drawings of the SMLE cup launcher, and read about it in books. I really enjoy logging onto this channel and not only learn about weapons I've only read about, but to see them? to see how they work? it 's really rewarding to me to see what your doing for the old girls. cheers, keep up the excellent work!
You are by far my favorite TH-cam channel with your extraordinarily informative history and extremely diverse variety of firearms you present on.
I have been watching the channel since the very first style of intro you had years ago and I have to say your speaking skills when not having any type of prompter or script have developed to be top notch.
You know. When I see weapons like this, particularly those used in wars (WW1, WW2 etc) I can't help thinking about what this weapon did. How many life's did it claim, how many life's did it save. Did the guy who was issued this survive the war and wonder what he thought of this weapon. So much emotion is connected to these weapons. So much history. Being British, I cant help feeling an essence of pride when I think what this gun and it's user went through for me and my fellow countrymen. Really do like seeing these type of guns. Keep em coming.
In the case of rifles, very few of them would actually kill anyone, even in combat units. Artillery, mortars, machineguns and hand grenades did the vast majority of the killing and maiming (talking +90%).
It's still pretty much the same ratio. After WWII, a US Military study found that out of all the Allied combat troops, only 4% ever aimed at an enemy soldier and of those 4%, only half actually took deliberate aim and shot to kill, even though they were under the belief that all enemy soldiers were trying to kill them. The rest did something you tend to see on footage from current conflicts - stick your weapon out around a corner and empty the mag in the general direction or something similar. Just like WWI, the vast majority of combat deaths were caused by artillery/mortars/grenades and indirect suppressive fire such as that from heavy machine guns.
J Corbett
It´s really a matter of psychology - a rifleman can get away with not firing at those enemy soldiers 300m away, because you don´t really depend on him. He knows this, and will find excuses (conciously or not) to abstain from firing until the enemy is a direct threat to him and he has to defend *his* life.
A machinegunner doesn´t have this "luxury", because if he doesn´t atleast fire *at* the enemy (thus surpessing them), he will put his comrades´ lives at risk and get into trouble with the squad leader.
Funny, the Germans actually put this into doctrine before WW2 - they didn´t even expect the riflemen to really do anything before they got into close combat, except firing at exposed targets of opportunity, if they could (which most couldn´t).
All the gunwork before getting within 50m was done with the squad machine gun/s, and most of the close combat was done with grenades, which you can use without actually seeing your enemy. It´s largely why they opted for the MG34 instead of a "proper" lmg like the Bren - they knew the rifleman was obselete, thus they wanted firepower.
There is an entire world of stories and experiences that follow these weapons! I wish we had a way to know.
Steven Sheppard that's why I collect these. It's the history that I am enchanted with. I hate anti gun comments on a gun channel.
After some coastal erosion beside an area that was a training camp for soldiers departing to the Western Front, we started to find old unexploded Mills Bombs and rod grenades. One Mills bomb still had the fly off lever and pin in place. The misfired rod grenades were something else. A lot of them, even after almost 100 years in the sea sand, their mechanisms still worked. They exploded on impact with a blued firing pin which had a safety feature of two brass balls in a groove in the firing pin which were held in place by a brass sleeve. When fired, the sleeve slid back, releasing the brass balls to free the firing pin to travel forward to set off the grenade on impact. It's not every day you take a spring the thickness of a hair from the sea and find that it is still a spring.
Some units in the Canadian Expeditionary Force in 1917 modified rifles by shortening the the barrels and remounting the muzzle caps. The shortened NoIII’s were used by the units designated for mopping up during attacks. The shorter barrel fired the grenades farther and faster and were more handy when employed in trenches.
I would love for you to do an overview on the legendary SMLE Mk III, your analysis and explanations always seem so understandable and just overall intelligent! Keep up the good work, loving it
My great uncle had a large grenade collection in his shed. This cache included rod grenades and a stick bomb and an early Mills type with a brass cap over a wooden plunger. I spent time messing around with these "inert" demo training items which turned out to be live and in some cases, crystalline!
The rod grenades usually damaged a rifle to the point that it was no longer useful as a rifle. A fire team or squad would often have a dedicated grenade launching rifle, which sort of defeated the purpose of having a grenade that could be launched using a rifleman's own rifle, might as well just issue a small mortar which would have greater accuracy and range.
Had one of these. Nice piece
This led me to wikipedia where I learned that Nazi Germany developed a 'propaganda launcher'. What a Nazi thing to do lol
So did the Allies. In the Battle of the Falaise Gap in 1944, modified 105 shells were fired with leaflets encouraging the Germans to surrender. Britain also used radio propaganda, using the worlds most powerful radio transmitter codenamed Aspidistra. The name came from a Gracie Fields song at the time The Biggest Aspidistra in the World.
Kellog should have sued them
@Poor Username th-cam.com/video/ce2dfvDIMUk/w-d-xo.html
Sounds like the first t shirt launcher
These were used in the Malayan Emergency in the ‘50’s because they were better in the Jungle than the standard 2 in mortar.
I love your videos, they are very good. I have a orginal wire wrap and the launcher. It still shoots beautifully.
So that's how they worked!
I was in the Australian School Army Cadets sixty years ago (Was it THAT long ago! :o) ) & our lecture dummy Grenade had a screw on Base for one of those.
We never had the launcher or saw one however.
(The "Toys" they gave us as kids in those days - Rifles, Sub Machine Guns, Vickers Machine Guns, Brens, 3" Mortars etc & fired them)
Fun Fact: In Star Wars: A New Hope, the Jawa's ion rifle was a cut down Lee Enfield with a grenade cup
It was a special blank round that was needed, not the standard pyrotechnic training round. Also the trigger was to be snatched, not squeezed, using the thumb.
These grenade launcher cups were used in the Far East well into the 1950s.
Because they were time fused rifle grenades could be fired in jungle without risking premature detonation in the tree cover. As could happen with contact fused 2" mortar bombs.
Could you still fire the gun with normal ammunition and the grenadecup mounted but with no grenade loaded?
Yes, you can.
Sir_dance_a_lot
still look like it blocks the iron sights
The French used one that _required_ normal ammunition with the grenade launcher. The grenade had a hole in the middle where the bullet passed through, and it hit a trip plate which activated the delayed ignition. The muzzle blast launched it.
That type is known as a Bullet trap Rifle Grenade. The British did experiment with them, one major problem was maximum range was inside blast radius of a 36 Mills Grenade. The 36 grenade is known as an offensive grenade, it slings lots of sharp fragments about, the case is designed to split into 36 parts. The German Stick Grenade is a Defensive type, it relys on blast rather fragments, so if you get to lose you maybe deaf for bit but not shreeded.
51WCDodge You got it wrong. The mills bomb is defensive and German one is attack grenade.
I can recall as a young boy going into a gun store with my Dad, and having the store owner tell us that the wire wrap was decoration from "some Arab country". Shame I didn't know better (or had money) because they used to sell for $50 or less because "they were broken and not safe to shoot".
An aside item... As the founder of the WWII HRS, when we began shooting blanks that nobody had wanted, the Brits found them selves with two choices; original British .303 training blanks and the very similar in appearance grenade launching blank. Back then, British re-enactors despised the original UK service blank because they were anemic. However the UK Grenade Launching Blank was very much, much, more powerful, so much so that when fired, they sound almost as loud as a live .303 round! Years before PRIVI began importing a good blanks, along with other calibers, we re-enactors found ourselves forced to make our own! With a PRIVI blank, a SMLE, and a cup launcher one can today have great fun launching tennis balls at an imaginary enemy. There is a YT video that shows several folks doing exactly this. If you watch this other video, take note of my comment regarding the recoil of a normal blank cartridge firing a light tennis ball. It is hardly noticeable. Using the correct real items and launching a heavy grenade, even an inert one is something, as Monty Python would have said, "Completely different."
Awesome piece of history. Thank you for the education.
I have a great story involving a grenade from one of these
I was doing a battlefield tour course in France during my first year of university and we went to lichfield crater cemetery and we are looking around. The whole time when we were preparing to go on this trip our professor told us to never pick up anything that looks like a potato. So after we have looked around the cemetery our professor starts to lecture and once hes done he asks us if we have any questions and one guy behind him says "I found a potato" and he is holding a rifle grenade from a SMLE. The Professor go on about how dangerous these are and how most of us would be dead and told his to just leave it and one of the caretakers will contact some one to dispose of it
Northern France and Belgium still have the legacy known as the Iron Harvest. Drive along and you will see piles of shells and other ordnance on the side of the road waiting for the Ordnance disposal guys to collect them, your land, you move to a convinent pick up point. Biggest worry on any construction or arceology on the battlefields are gas shells. You will see wind flags all around site were they are digging so you know which way to run in case of any sudden funny smells.
"and once hes done he asks" WHAT?!? :P
@@51WCDodge wait the gas shells still work? Fuck that
@@unclestoma4699 Oh yes. Before digging any hole in the area check the wind direction. No kiddng you put a wind marker. Especially if you are using a machine. On one occasion, so I'm told , a farmer got permisisn to blow up some concrete . The Blasters came in, set a small charge and set it off. About half a hectare went up as the concrete had been left over an old ammo dump. Another story is of the bloke who took a shell as a souvenir. When he got home to England his Wife got quite upset demanding to know if it was safe. Of course he hadn't a clue. So she told him to take it back. Which he did only to get stopped for speeding in Kent. The Police asked him 'What's in the back?' The subsequent clousre caused total cahos for hours.
One thing that was not mentioned. Normandy landing bunkers ax example, hand grenade is not an option until you are dead, mortar will not get inside the bunker but this thing can be shot with enough luck right inside, disabling the bunker crew. Something that other types of explosive were not able to accomplish
fits on like a gear puller. That is what it reminds me of anyway.
I knew these were used in WW1 though I had not realised how extensively. I am surprised, though, that they were still in service into the 1940s as the 2 in mortar was so widely used at squad level at the time. And being a mortar they would have a higher rate of fire. You could drop several rounds downrange in quick succession.
Well a couple of new facts learned today. Thanks
Present day use: can be used to launch tennis balls down range with a blank round. To see this in action, check out the video on my channel. It's tons of fun to fire one.
Have you ever had your hands on a Type 99 grenade launcher? I've seen them before, just very rare to find.
Yes, I have, but haven't done a video on them.
so it basically works just like today's can cannons
I learn so much from Forgotten Weapons (and InRangeTV) that I wouldn't be half bad if I found myself as a recruit in the old strategy game Silent Storm.
I have seen this done with shotguns and Molotov cocktails. Same thought, blank cartridge using a wooden rod with a wood or metal plate on which a Molotov is glued or duct taped to the plate.
was the British SMle No. 1 MKIII .303 Enfield Rifle with Grenade Launcher used in the Zula War
Awesome video, I love the vent , so simple !
Looks like an ingenious system- easy to manufacture and simple to use. The Mills bombs i have seen are large for a hand grenade- i am sure they were effective. The pkate on the bottom is certainly a good idea- it would have made the propulsion more consistent. That would have made it easier to dtermine the proper vent settings for different ranges. Great video as always. Thank you
The AT grenade with the SMLE cup grenade launcher was the No.68 (HEAT). It could penetrate up to 32mm. of armour plate and was used during the BEF in France 1940, where it proved to be next to useless versus a German panzer.
That seems unlikely, during 1940 there were plenty of places on a german tank that were less than 32mm thick.
Add that cup to an Aussie Tunneler's SMLE sawed-off and you have a Jawa Ion Blaster!!!!!
In Yugoslavia this was called drunk Ustasha because Serbs didn't understand how could Croats throw a grenade over 50m. (I think it was the different gun but it's the same concept)
Thanks for the video Ian- I was wondering if the British ever made a grenade launching system for the no. 4 Enfields?
Saw a feature the other day about German WWII rifle grenade launchers and rifle grenades; needless to say it was technologically much more advanced with sophisticated sighting systems, dual purpose fuses (contact / time delayed) etc.. Such a German thing to do.
The British design something that works well, doesn't require a lot of modification, is easy to use and is cost effective.
The logistics of war.
Also known, at least in Australia, as the 'EY' rifle from an abbreviation of 'Emergency' (pronounced eee-why) and were 'in reserve' up through the 1960's. The wrist area of the butt was also often reinforced with wire as they tended to break at the end of the stock bolt holding the butt onto the action.
My Grandfather was hit by rifle grenade in late of WW2, April 23rd, 1945, Grepplin, Germany. He said one when off but landed far from his right. He predicted that the next one was coming right towards him, he was right, he heard it go off and he went prone and covered his face. He survived but had a lot of shrapnel in his right hand and his butt. He got up on his own and retreated to the creek that they crossed few minutes before the attack. Then he got help at that point by field medics.
About the ratio of hand grenades to rifle grenades produced. I would assume from appearances that a rifle grenade could also be hand thrown, it would have a longer fusing of course. But a hand grenade could not be fired as a rifle grenade.
The design is elegantly simple.
There is some pretty good footage of grenades being fired in the film 'The Battle of the Ancre and the Advance of the Tanks'. I can't find any online footage but its worth a watch if you can find it.
I was wondering if you will showcase of shooting the weapon. But that would probably cost you an arm and a leg.
Australians sometime used these in Vietnam ILO m79, they preferred the penetration of undergrowth this heavier 'round' offered. Oh and don't fire from shoulder, ever.
I may be wrong. But I believe in the trenches of gallipoli Australian troops added wire to SMLE 303 in WWI. At least I have seen them in the war memorial in Canberra years ago
The French Army is still big on rifle grenades, the new HK416 will be able to shoot them, like the FA-MAS F1, the MAS49/56 and the MAS36/51 before it.
IIRC, it comes mostly from a cold war era strategy of having every foot soldier armed with AP rifle grenades. That way a simple infantry team can slow down, if not stop, the progression of APCs while the upper echelon shuffles troops around and provides AT troops or MBTs.
daktari its more than just that.. rifle grenades hold more boom for weight than 40mm also you dont need a heavy attachment(m203,etc) and like you said everybody in the section gets them
Sono Luma japan france and some other countries still use them
It packs both a more punch and also more range than the M203. The NATO rifle grenade replaced light mortars (like the good'ol 60mm) in terms of range and exploding power. The 40mm grenade launchers are pretty handy (lower kick and the ability to use both main ammo and grenade side by side) but doesn't have the same range.
The French APAV40 anti-tank grenades are well known for having a lot of kick but also a longer range compared to the standard NATO grenades and makes any rifleman pack the power of a M72 LAW launcher.
The Israeli also use ridle grenades, but in more specialized roles like blowing up doors from a distance.
I think the Finnish RK 95 TP also has a rifle grenade option, though it doesn't use any specialized launcher cup or such.
A bit of a dumb question, but is it possible to fire the rifle normally with dischargers like these attached? Or if you get jumped by the hun while you're getting into position, would you have to remove the grenade, the blank, *and* the cup before you could take shots at them?
Mills bomb 200 yards - impressive and no wonder the recoil is massive.
Pretty interesting that my Yugoslavian M59/66A1 SKS has the NATO 22 mm grenade launcher spigot as well. It's a neat feature that sets it apart from other SKS rifles.
Somehow I think the Japanese "Knee Mortar" was a better idea.
First say 80 - 200 yards, then 80 - 200 meters, then back to yards.
Yards and meters are not interchangeable.
Ian u forgot a very important adjustment on the spigot launcher. The threaded sleeve in the center rear is shaped to mach the muzzle, its adjusted from inside top of launcher with a wide screwdriver, u snug up the unit loosely then tighten inner centering sleeve, then tighten the launcher the last little bit. I just got 5 drill purpose rifles from CAI for $85 ea w/launchers, their in a lot better shape than I expected, just 2 have damaged toes. 2 have no stacking swivels, 2 havent been drilled for a swivel just a boss is there, 1 doesnt even have the boss at all. I thought this to be odd😊
After watching this again. The Triang mark on the renforcing bolt. That is the trade mark of the Triang Toy company, who were also responsible for the Production Enginnering pahse of the STEN gun.
That’s a great job of wire wrapping, but what a kludge!
Just got mine yesterday. The rifle and the grenade cup. If any of you just want the cup go to Springfield Sporters they have the cups for $100 and free shipping.
There is one of those flintlock grenade cup muskets preserved from 1700 in a museum somewhere in Sweden.
Grenades themselves really fell out of favor by the end of the 19th century and most armies didn't re adopt them until WW1. That's because most grenades until WW1 were simple iron/steel balls filled with black powder and shot, and detonated by a simple lit fuse (there were impact detonated grenades used in the American Civil war but they often didn't detonate reliably). This made them difficult to use, unreliable, and often dangerous to the user or his comrades. Not until WW1 and improved fuses were developed did they become practical again, and the war showed the need for a form of "individual artillery". Then you see a proliferation of hand grenades, rifle grenades, and light weight mortars that gave this ability organic to a small infantry unit.
Back in the early 1960s Sears Roebuck sold these wire wrapped SMLEs (without cup discharger) for $7.00 each.
If you are going to fire one of these SMLEs make sure it is not stamped EY -- meaning -- Do not fire ball except in an emergency. -- meaning-- unless the Zulus were tickling your kidneys with a spear, They are dangerous to fire. This mark will be on the Barrel,on the knox form,receiver,& furniture, there is also DP -- Drill purpose only --stamped in the same places.
A number of years ago, back when these were coming in by the crateload and cost almost nothing, there used to be a local militaria show in Fort Worth, and one year there was a British sailor that had served on a destroyer leader during the war. He mentioned they had 2 of these rifles with launcher cups on the ship towards the end of the war (he didn't specify year, but I would assume that he meant 1944-45) that were exclusively provided with blanks and a variety of signal flares for communicating with other ships in case of radio failure. I always found that interesting, and I often wonder if the naval examples were marked in any way to differentiate them from the land service variants. Of course, after FTR and decades of abuse as training weapons in the Indian army, any such markings would likely be obliterated, but it would be interesting to find any evidence of them.
Seems very similar in design philosophy to the Japanese knee mortar. What I mean by that is the fixed 45 degree with gas venting as the distance control.
In one of the later episodes of Mythbusters they tested what happens when you shoot a grenade... a pistol will knock a hole through the side, a slug will shatter the case, but a rifle round will actually set off the main charge. I can see one of those going off in your trench leading to a real bad day.
moosemaimer and that's why they used specialized rounds.
Technically the rifle round would have set off the detonator, which would have set off the main charge. A grenade main charge should not detonate with just the impact or even penetration from a bullet.
i see ths beautiful rifle and one thought goes through my head..."I WANT YOU....". someday i will go to this auction house and buy a forgotten weapon.
I've came across a good bit of SMLEs with the wire wrapping around the stock
These will also fire tennis balls.
Soda cans are too large, but a Coors Lite can with some wadding behind it is also fun. DO NOT FORGET THE WADDING, or you will end up with a beer mist that will coat everything nearby. Speaking from personal experience.
Strange idea this.. most were only dismounted for cleaning as a specif8c rifle was fitted and then used with for this purpose.. they could just as well have made an entirely separate weapon..
We talk so casually about assaulting a position, the reality is terrifying, even if the opposition are untrained yobbos. The whole thing is a crap shoot, pure luck, if you’re seen, you’re dead, if they have fortified positions with automatic weapons, you’re dead, if they are determined, you’re dead etc. I can’t even comprehend thousands “going over the top” in WW1.
Ian, How about the rifle grenade for the M1 Garand? I always remember the bit in the film 'Battle of the Bulge' where Charles Bronson tells a soldier how to to use one.
At the start of W W1 the British had no standard grenade. The expdient was to use tins from the issue Tickler's Plum and Apple jam packed with gun cotton anda fuse, to 'Tickle' up the Germans. In 1915 William Mills designed the Mills Bomb, going through various developments till the type 36 (Shown in the video ) was standardised. The term Bomb being used in the British Army through out WW1. Initailly the rod grenade was fired from a half cup, problem being you pulled the saftey pin, and nothing held the lever down, an exciting five seconds . The full cup No 2 launcher and 7 second fuse was introduced around late 1917 early 1918 . This held the fly off lever allowing the saftey pin to be removed and giving time to aim and fire. By 1917 British tactics for assualt favoured the 'Bomber'. Two or three men in a section carrying only Mills bombs would lead an attack with the riflemen there primarly as support and close protection. The blanks used to fire the grenades were Ballisiste, previously discarded by the British as a primary propellant in favour of Cordite. In the 1950's 60's the Energa anti tank rifle grenade was issued, range at about 10 yards. Official description of use 'At a range of 10 yards , it requires a determined man'.
Actually the British did have a hand grenade at the start of the Great War, the Mark I, adopted in 1908. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._1_grenadeIt had a wooden handle to increase leverage and, hence range. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._1_grenade#/media/File:HandGrenadeNo1Mk1.jpgBUT"When the battlefield became confined to the trenches, the long handle became a liability, causing several accidents. Reaching back for the throw, the fuse could strike the trench side.[3] The No. 3, a variant of the No. 1, had a shorter handle for easier use in trenches."The reason for improvised devices was"Manufacturing the No. 1 was difficult, as it required a special detonator that could only be produced by the ordnance factories. Because of this, the British Expeditionary Force got far fewer No. 1s than were ordered"
The bsap, the rhodesian police still had quite a few of these in the 1960/early 70s that fired tear gas cannisters.
This is basically the long version of the Shotgun that the Jawas from Star Wars use. (Technically theirs is a short version of this but...)
“A guns a tool, like a hand grenade, or an alligator. You just need one!”
~Homer J. Simpson
Used to see hese all the time at gun shows, not anymore, don't think I ever saw one with the cup though
Ok fine. You convinced me I need to buy a grenade cup for my wire-wrapped No.1 MKIII* SMLE.
Huh. Just found my old comment here. Well, just an update - I did in fact find a grenade cup for my wire-wrapped SMLE. I suppose this video inspired me to finally find it. The complete set is a wonderful part of my collection.
@@zul448 now you need .303 blanks to launch tennis balls into the next county! I don't know if the Brit Royal Navy was using smles for line launching, but that may be a useful source for blanks to use.
Ian, you mentioned a Brazilian Mauser in this lot. Have you ever done anything on the 1912 Argentine 7.65 Mauser? I have a close to new condition carbine I would let you shoot.
tn the 70s used to see lots of these at raf military bases just stacked to be used for aerodrome defense as we still used a grenade thay wpuld fit it
Ball and stick referres to the shape of the divided propellant. Fine powder propellants burn slowly. Ball or corned, more quickly and stick, which appease as tiny extruded star shaped hollow tubes or sticks, is more efficient. Although this is know widely, many insist guns still fire out musket balls. Sorry, accurate over no usable range.
I have the great pleasure of owning one, Tennis balls fit perfectly in them. I use it to work with my dog on retrieval.