I'm unsure why Nizzahon won't do that video, though if he did, it would end up a lot different than this list most likely, since Nizzahon goes off his point system to rank cards. Chances are the list wouldn't be terribly interesting, I'd think, even with the Power Nine taken off of it. So maybe that's why, lol.
Some ideas that could be interesting. Top best dual lands cycles (beside the Originals). Explaining the commander ban list. Top most supported tribes. Top weirdest mechanics that appear in one set
Top ten cards from the “UN” sets if they were legal to use. Always loved the “UN” sets and feel like other than unstable, a lot havent played with the older sets.
Legacy is my favorite format, but it's so fun to see what catches on in Vintage. Like I just saw Monestary Mentor was getting a reprint in the March of the Machine spoilers & it reminded me of when that blew up in Vintage. There are a lot of cards that surprise me when I see they get played in Vintage, but then you see why & it makes total sense.
I think "Top 10 Most Powerful Unrestricted Cards in Vintage" would make for a more interesting list, and more clearly rules out any "honorable mentions" like the Power 9 or Time Vault. Picks like Misstep and Probe felt pretty weird, because they just aren't all that important to the format, while plenty of broken unrestricted cards are just as good/better and get entire decks built around them. Underworld Breach was the card I felt was most missing from the list, probably the best combo deck among PO/Doomsday, and arguably the best deck in the format flat out, as of late.
White plume adventurer (initiative is broken) Sulfur elemental (fringe but red prison needs a way to deal with X/1s from white) Dak Fayden (0 mana artifacts run rampant) Serum Powder (bazaar is dumb) Thorn of Amythist (Shops is dumb) Lodestar Golem (shops is still dumb) Dredge X (bazaar is dumb) Voltaic Key (time vault wombocombo at instant speed because tinker is dumb) Thespian stage (only format left to dark depths, which is also dumb) Unexpected outcome (makes storm even more dumb)
The description Mental Misstep’s controversy makes me think of Yugioh’s Maxx C. An extremely useful, borderline free to use card that can be used by basically every deck in the format, demands decks be built with it in mind, and opens up a lot of arguments about whether it’s a great card or a giant mistake.
I'd say that Strip Mine doesn't really deserve a spot on this list. Vintage is so fast that, against many decks, using strip mine will just put you too far behind (since they get to tap their land for mana before its gone, but you don't get to tap your strip mine). And vintage has so many 1 mana cards that can't use the colorless mana, so the opportunity cost of running strip mine in vintage is higher than in other formats. Sure, strip mine is good, but the other cards in the list are good *almost every time* you draw it. I think that cards that are better candidates for this spot include: Time Vault, Monastery Mentor, Yawgmoth's Will, Force Of Will
Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale Library of Alexandra Dual Lands Strip Mine/Wasteland These cards are sort of worth Using Strip Mine on Fetch Lands I think Strip Mine doesn't help. Workshop and Bazaar you are dead if you don't have the Strip Mine. Maze of Ith used to be relevant in Legacy. Lake of the Dead and Glacial Chasm used to be relevant in Legacy too I think. Mirage has no serious Lands in the whole block. Gaea's Cradle and Tolarian Academy are necessary to Strip Mine. Strip Mine protects you from many silly dumb things. Force of Will is better. But you need both tbh + Leyline of the Void
Strip mine is great, the best lands in the game are used in vintage. Strip mine killing bazaar is absolutely essential in vintage or you're dead to it. It also shows that you haven't played the eternal formats enough if you think stuff like strip mine and by extension wasteland are not powerful cards that win games by themselves because that's how powerful land destruction is for free, costing just a landdrop.
It isn't just an oppressive card against combo decks. The problem with it is that eventually every deck runs the card usually to answer itself or people don't play 1 mana spells on purpose. Fair strategies hate playing against it too, on the play and you go for a 1 mana creature? Sorry, misstep it.
The end of the Bazaar of Baghdad section reminded me of a small but kinda important difference in MtG compared to most other TCGs, the mulligan. It gives you more chances to avoid bricking on your starting hand, and no one really brings it up when talking about what makes Magic different than other card games
Most TCGs and CCGs have some sort of mulligan in my experience, which is probably why nobody brings it up as something different. Only exception I can think of off the top of my head is Yugioh.
Video ideas. The top ten cards of x Guild. IE: Top 10 Most Powerful Izzet cards, or Most powerful golgari cards and so forth. this could be futher extended to the to 10 cards of each 3 color combo and all 5 colors. Maybe even then the top 10 colorless cards. This idea, to me, would be fun to watch with your very informative style of videos.
I thought he was saving Yawgmoth’s Will for number 1. So surprised it wasn’t on the list. Definitely one of the most broken cards ever. What do you guys think?
I'll never understand why people want to spend such ridiculously exorbitant prices on these cards to be hyper competitive just to play with a few other randoms at an LGS. I play with close friends for decades and there's no format, no competition, we have tons of fun and we don't spend 4k$ on a single fucking deck lmao. If you're not winning tournaments, you're wasting your time and money
I think shops should beat out misstep since it has such a massive impact on the format that any big colorless artifact has to be looked at for vintage and is the reason behind many other cards being restricted.
Agreed. And Misstep is restricted, so it can't have the same impact that Workshop has. It really should have been restricted a long time ago because it's completely broken, but they just restricted half a dozen other cards instead.
I was in a Legacy tournament that I was playing Junk (now referred to as “Abzan”) Loam. I was swinging for lethal damage with two 12/12 or 13/13 Knights of the Reliquary. My opponent was at some life total above my KoRs’ power. They go to Swords to Plowshares one of them, and I cast Mental Misstep. Their response was, “I did not see that coming.” Whilyi didn’t say it aloud, I thought “Really?”
Could we get a list on the strongest cards for cheating mana costs? I'm rather knew so I only know a few like omniscience, one with the multiverse, and yusri, would love to hear what broken stuff mtg players get to use in other stronger formats
I wonder if Mental Misstep’s ubiquity also has to do with its extremely low cost relative to its power level? It’s a $5 card compared to thousands for a power 9 card. Also, IMO Gitaxian Probe is better than Misstep because information is so valuable in combo strategies. Misstep, like a hand trap in Yu-Gi-Oh, could be a dead card in hand if you go first and don’t draw your artifact ramp to feed your strategy or something (I would say mana screwed, but I know many legacy decks barely play any lands).
Okay analysis video! Thanks for uploading! What about a list of the best high mana cost cards that are primarily played by paying their regular, high mana cost to cast? The best high mana cost cards that are "hard cast", simply put.
@@fernandobanda5734 Which mentor deck? I only know of mentor being run as the wincons of control decks and in Paradoxical Outcome decks (which are combo decks). 3 mana is just a very large amount of mana in vintage. Mentor doesn't belong in aggro decks.
To this day im still Salty that i got my 4 copies of Mental Misstep on New Phyrexia prerelease and got banned 1 week after... it is still a pretty broken card tho.
The Power 9 should really be a Power 8 now, since one of them probably isn't even one of the strongest spells in Magic anymore. Still very strong, but not one of the most powerful.
Atleast 8 of these see some play in cedh with a decent amount being staples, so you run most of these in commander(might even run tinkerer in some Urza lists not sure)
I will say your very good at yugioh content but this video is kinda off. If its your opinion I can respect that but being a yugioh player I feel your misguided from only hearing what a few people have informed you on mtg rather then actually playing/testing out what theese carrds do. Saying the power 9 are all so similar is just wrong. only the 5 mox's are the same and lotus is a whole new power level compared to those. the 3 blue cards are also vastly different and just give you a huge tempo boost. Those 9 cards don't need to take slots i agree on that however they should be mentioned what they do cause lotus alone enables over half theese cards to make 2 card winning decks. mental misstep/gitaxian probe arent worthy of the list. they just very good but not format warping. If you want a good counter force of will is better then mental misstep. Oath of druids and time vault shoulda been on this list. Mana crypt i can see a fair argument but thats apart of the many good mana rocks in mud decks . Nice video tho.
Correction!!!! Y does everyone forget about Shahrazad? It is a stall card, we don't shaft Second Sunrise like that, so y does Shahrazad get lumped in with manual dexterity cards, Un-sets, ante cards, n the culturally insensitive cards? It has been banned for so long that people never mention it n it is 1 of my favourite cards ever. It is the best flavour win in the game's history. I actually had wanted to make a deck with it for yrs n then they made the red Un-set sub game card which sux but I noticed last month that they had dropped black n green subgame cards in the Un-sets of the past few yrs n Enter the Dungeon n Tug of War r amazing so I decided yo use those too but if I'm using Un-sets then all bets r kinda off so I decided to allow the ante cards too n in the end I decided that I'd design decks for my own personal format that allows 4 different cards that r banned in Vintage n the format has not restricted list so everything is up to 4 copies which means u could have 16 vintage banned cards in ur deck :P I'm still making changes to the deck (mostly need to find a way to get rid of an Ensnaring Bridge even if I'm trapped into the Karn/Lattice combo) but it is super fun n wacky n so hard to keep track of everything that is happening. I had to make some rules decisions since WOTC never gave rulings on any of these. So cards up for ante to to the ante done A separate sort of exile zone that is still considered part of that game or subgame but the command zone (I haven't used it but made the full g just in case) is more like the sideboard as a zone outside of all the games but a commander tax would only count the number of times u played it within that game. Wish effects can grab cards from the previous games while in a subgame even the ante cards of those other games but obviously since they can't grab exile cards when they say "from outside the game" they can't grab the ante card from the game or subgame u r currently in. Cards added to ur deck in those subgame come with u into the previous game when u return to it. Also in case it isn't clear, if playing for ante then u need to put up a new ante at the start of each of those subgames. I was using Contract from Below as my only ante card since it is the best draw spell ever n thus y I have rules about ante but I'm not sure if ante would just be part of this format or on my if someone has n ante card. Also I don't yet know if I would make it both players or just the person bringing in ante cards. N I have been goldfishing the deck so iunno how I would treat the cards taken from the ante of subgames. So still some kinks to iron out but I love Shahrazad so much it is totally worth it even tho the more I test the deck the more I realize it really doesn't need Shahrazad as cutting their life in half n having a subgame with 20 life is way worse than searching 2 cards or bringing back the best permanent from ur deck when u leave the subgame n the fact their subgames only have 5 life. They r skool much stronger than Shahrazad but I can't bring myself to drop Shahrazad
"Wizard's first mistake was thinking I'd let the meta settle long enough not to break it."
- Mental Misstep
I love that the ManaLogs did this video before Nizzahon did, even though it’s been requested by people for years.
Also Manalogs voice is pleasant where Nizzahons is not so much
I like them both equally like a good person :)
I think it's kind of a cheeky April fools joke
@@xboxgamer474246 lol what's that supposed to mean? I'm a bad person cause I don't like a TH-camr?
I'm unsure why Nizzahon won't do that video, though if he did, it would end up a lot different than this list most likely, since Nizzahon goes off his point system to rank cards. Chances are the list wouldn't be terribly interesting, I'd think, even with the Power Nine taken off of it. So maybe that's why, lol.
Some ideas that could be interesting.
Top best dual lands cycles (beside the Originals).
Explaining the commander ban list.
Top most supported tribes.
Top weirdest mechanics that appear in one set
As a commander player, I want him to go over the commander ban list
OG dual lands are worse than the fetch lands.
@@quantum6637 Fetch lands are like fine wine. They get more targets as more cards are printed.
Top ten cards from the “UN” sets if they were legal to use. Always loved the “UN” sets and feel like other than unstable, a lot havent played with the older sets.
Legacy is my favorite format, but it's so fun to see what catches on in Vintage.
Like I just saw Monestary Mentor was getting a reprint in the March of the Machine spoilers & it reminded me of when that blew up in Vintage.
There are a lot of cards that surprise me when I see they get played in Vintage, but then you see why & it makes total sense.
Remember Fleetwheel Cruiser?
Mentor is currently restricted in vintage and still sees a lot of play.
I think "Top 10 Most Powerful Unrestricted Cards in Vintage" would make for a more interesting list, and more clearly rules out any "honorable mentions" like the Power 9 or Time Vault. Picks like Misstep and Probe felt pretty weird, because they just aren't all that important to the format, while plenty of broken unrestricted cards are just as good/better and get entire decks built around them. Underworld Breach was the card I felt was most missing from the list, probably the best combo deck among PO/Doomsday, and arguably the best deck in the format flat out, as of late.
That's a neat idea
I had to scroll through the timeline to see if this was a troll or not. Looks safe on first look.
Do a video on the top ten cards that are strong in vintage that aren't banned in most other formats
Yes this PLEASE!!!!
Agreed. I nominate Pithing Needle; a staple in the powerful formats, largely trash in weaker ones
Well, Doomsday and Paradoxical Outcome were two of them (legal in Legacy).
White plume adventurer (initiative is broken)
Sulfur elemental (fringe but red prison needs a way to deal with X/1s from white)
Dak Fayden (0 mana artifacts run rampant)
Serum Powder (bazaar is dumb)
Thorn of Amythist (Shops is dumb)
Lodestar Golem (shops is still dumb)
Dredge X (bazaar is dumb)
Voltaic Key (time vault wombocombo at instant speed because tinker is dumb)
Thespian stage (only format left to dark depths, which is also dumb)
Unexpected outcome (makes storm even more dumb)
The first two I think of that are not included but are super strong are Tolarian Academy and Yawgmoth's Will.
I think really you'd just want to make two lists: restricted and unrestricted. Also no way Paradoxical Outcome over Yawgmoth's Will.
The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a Mental Misstep is a good guy with a Mental Misstep.
The description Mental Misstep’s controversy makes me think of Yugioh’s Maxx C. An extremely useful, borderline free to use card that can be used by basically every deck in the format, demands decks be built with it in mind, and opens up a lot of arguments about whether it’s a great card or a giant mistake.
Your voice is soothing and I love it
Thanks brother
Keep up the hard work
I can't even believe they thought printing White Plume Adventurer was okay. The 5 direct damage is such a hilariously huge pie break in white.
I'd say that Strip Mine doesn't really deserve a spot on this list. Vintage is so fast that, against many decks, using strip mine will just put you too far behind (since they get to tap their land for mana before its gone, but you don't get to tap your strip mine). And vintage has so many 1 mana cards that can't use the colorless mana, so the opportunity cost of running strip mine in vintage is higher than in other formats. Sure, strip mine is good, but the other cards in the list are good *almost every time* you draw it.
I think that cards that are better candidates for this spot include: Time Vault, Monastery Mentor, Yawgmoth's Will, Force Of Will
Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale
Library of Alexandra
Dual Lands
Strip Mine/Wasteland
These cards are sort of worth Using Strip Mine on
Fetch Lands I think Strip Mine doesn't help.
Workshop and Bazaar you are dead if you don't have the Strip Mine.
Maze of Ith used to be relevant in Legacy.
Lake of the Dead and Glacial Chasm used to be relevant in Legacy too I think.
Mirage has no serious Lands in the whole block.
Gaea's Cradle and Tolarian Academy are necessary to Strip Mine.
Strip Mine protects you from many silly dumb things.
Force of Will is better. But you need both tbh + Leyline of the Void
Strip mine is great, the best lands in the game are used in vintage. Strip mine killing bazaar is absolutely essential in vintage or you're dead to it. It also shows that you haven't played the eternal formats enough if you think stuff like strip mine and by extension wasteland are not powerful cards that win games by themselves because that's how powerful land destruction is for free, costing just a landdrop.
I love mental misstep, murdering as turn 1 Dark Ritual win combo is satisfying.
If it were as innocent as that, sure.
It isn't just an oppressive card against combo decks. The problem with it is that eventually every deck runs the card usually to answer itself or people don't play 1 mana spells on purpose. Fair strategies hate playing against it too, on the play and you go for a 1 mana creature? Sorry, misstep it.
The end of the Bazaar of Baghdad section reminded me of a small but kinda important difference in MtG compared to most other TCGs, the mulligan. It gives you more chances to avoid bricking on your starting hand, and no one really brings it up when talking about what makes Magic different than other card games
Most TCGs and CCGs have some sort of mulligan in my experience, which is probably why nobody brings it up as something different. Only exception I can think of off the top of my head is Yugioh.
almost every tcg has some kind mulligan rule at this point
This man just called him Karn, the Great Curator.
"Top 10 Cards that Cost 10 or More Mana and Lack Effects or Keywords to Cost Less."
I don't know if there's a reprint/new art version of Tinker and Mishra's Workshop, but I'm happy to see you show the OG versions of both cards.
Pretty sure Workshop is NEVER getting a reprint
I'd love to see Top 10 Elves
I think Coveted Jewel should of been mentioned in either Paradoxical Outcome or Mishra's Workshop entries.
Video ideas. The top ten cards of x Guild. IE: Top 10 Most Powerful Izzet cards, or Most powerful golgari cards and so forth. this could be futher extended to the to 10 cards of each 3 color combo and all 5 colors. Maybe even then the top 10 colorless cards. This idea, to me, would be fun to watch with your very informative style of videos.
Wizard designed Paradoxical outcome to work in slower game format. But, in a Paradoxical outcome, it sees play in the fastest one
I thought he was saving Yawgmoth’s Will for number 1. So surprised it wasn’t on the list. Definitely one of the most broken cards ever.
What do you guys think?
Yes it is a very powerful card but Paradoxical Outcome, Doomsday and Underworld Breach have been more successful combo engines in recent years.
I'll never understand why people want to spend such ridiculously exorbitant prices on these cards to be hyper competitive just to play with a few other randoms at an LGS. I play with close friends for decades and there's no format, no competition, we have tons of fun and we don't spend 4k$ on a single fucking deck lmao. If you're not winning tournaments, you're wasting your time and money
You haven't lived peak combo until you've paradoxical outcome'd for 7+. In that moment, it feels like there's no way to lose.
I think shops should beat out misstep since it has such a massive impact on the format that any big colorless artifact has to be looked at for vintage and is the reason behind many other cards being restricted.
Agreed. And Misstep is restricted, so it can't have the same impact that Workshop has. It really should have been restricted a long time ago because it's completely broken, but they just restricted half a dozen other cards instead.
I was in a Legacy tournament that I was playing Junk (now referred to as “Abzan”) Loam. I was swinging for lethal damage with two 12/12 or 13/13 Knights of the Reliquary. My opponent was at some life total above my KoRs’ power. They go to Swords to Plowshares one of them, and I cast Mental Misstep. Their response was, “I did not see that coming.” Whilyi didn’t say it aloud, I thought “Really?”
Could we get a list on the strongest cards for cheating mana costs? I'm rather knew so I only know a few like omniscience, one with the multiverse, and yusri, would love to hear what broken stuff mtg players get to use in other stronger formats
Is this "Top 10 Vintage Cards (Minus Power 9)"?
Yes, check description
Imagine a format that is so powerful that Island is not in the top 10 of the most powerful cards.
I wonder if Mental Misstep’s ubiquity also has to do with its extremely low cost relative to its power level? It’s a $5 card compared to thousands for a power 9 card.
Also, IMO Gitaxian Probe is better than Misstep because information is so valuable in combo strategies. Misstep, like a hand trap in Yu-Gi-Oh, could be a dead card in hand if you go first and don’t draw your artifact ramp to feed your strategy or something (I would say mana screwed, but I know many legacy decks barely play any lands).
Okay analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
What about a list of the best high mana cost cards that are primarily played by paying their regular, high mana cost to cast?
The best high mana cost cards that are "hard cast", simply put.
12:48 What? Vintage doesn't have any spell-based aggro decks. The aggro decks either use Mishra's Workshop, Bazaar Of Baghdad, or initiative cards.
I think they mean Monastery Mentor
@@fernandobanda5734 Which mentor deck? I only know of mentor being run as the wincons of control decks and in Paradoxical Outcome decks (which are combo decks).
3 mana is just a very large amount of mana in vintage. Mentor doesn't belong in aggro decks.
@@theemathas My bad. I didn't realize they were talking specifically aggro decks. That does seem weird.
To this day im still Salty that i got my 4 copies of Mental Misstep on New Phyrexia prerelease and got banned 1 week after... it is still a pretty broken card tho.
Can you please do top 10 ojama cards please
The Power 9 should really be a Power 8 now, since one of them probably isn't even one of the strongest spells in Magic anymore.
Still very strong, but not one of the most powerful.
Shout out to the Companion card that managed to get itself banned from Vintage.
This videi could also be called: If We Increased it to Power 10, What are the 10 Most Likely Options?
Surprised to see force of will not on the list
Amazing
Gitaxian probe is almost literally Upstart Goblin from Yugioh.
That guy from Nizzahon's comment section in shambles
edit: this isn't score-based so it's not over yet
Bolas citadel is unbelievably powerful.
Oh no. Physical dexterity.
What is the background music ?
No Ancestral Recall?!
Where's Teeka's Dragon
Treasure Cruise
Meanwhile in commander:
Sure its not awfull bit i wouldnt play half of the cards
Atleast 8 of these see some play in cedh with a decent amount being staples, so you run most of these in commander(might even run tinkerer in some Urza lists not sure)
0:12 He pronounced "albeit" as "ableet" lol. I thought this channel only mispronounces card names.
Who cares and why did you point this out.
Shut the fuck up.
If #1 isn't Storm Crow we riot
I will say your very good at yugioh content but this video is kinda off. If its your opinion I can respect that but being a yugioh player I feel your misguided from only hearing what a few people have informed you on mtg rather then actually playing/testing out what theese carrds do.
Saying the power 9 are all so similar is just wrong. only the 5 mox's are the same and lotus is a whole new power level compared to those. the 3 blue cards are also vastly different and just give you a huge tempo boost. Those 9 cards don't need to take slots i agree on that however they should be mentioned what they do cause lotus alone enables over half theese cards to make 2 card winning decks. mental misstep/gitaxian probe arent worthy of the list. they just very good but not format warping. If you want a good counter force of will is better then mental misstep. Oath of druids and time vault shoulda been on this list. Mana crypt i can see a fair argument but thats apart of the many good mana rocks in mud decks . Nice video tho.
why those new printings!!!!!! AAARGH
Anyone else hoping for A Joke xD
Correction!!!! Y does everyone forget about Shahrazad? It is a stall card, we don't shaft Second Sunrise like that, so y does Shahrazad get lumped in with manual dexterity cards, Un-sets, ante cards, n the culturally insensitive cards? It has been banned for so long that people never mention it n it is 1 of my favourite cards ever. It is the best flavour win in the game's history. I actually had wanted to make a deck with it for yrs n then they made the red Un-set sub game card which sux but I noticed last month that they had dropped black n green subgame cards in the Un-sets of the past few yrs n Enter the Dungeon n Tug of War r amazing so I decided yo use those too but if I'm using Un-sets then all bets r kinda off so I decided to allow the ante cards too n in the end I decided that I'd design decks for my own personal format that allows 4 different cards that r banned in Vintage n the format has not restricted list so everything is up to 4 copies which means u could have 16 vintage banned cards in ur deck :P I'm still making changes to the deck (mostly need to find a way to get rid of an Ensnaring Bridge even if I'm trapped into the Karn/Lattice combo) but it is super fun n wacky n so hard to keep track of everything that is happening. I had to make some rules decisions since WOTC never gave rulings on any of these. So cards up for ante to to the ante done A separate sort of exile zone that is still considered part of that game or subgame but the command zone (I haven't used it but made the full g just in case) is more like the sideboard as a zone outside of all the games but a commander tax would only count the number of times u played it within that game. Wish effects can grab cards from the previous games while in a subgame even the ante cards of those other games but obviously since they can't grab exile cards when they say "from outside the game" they can't grab the ante card from the game or subgame u r currently in. Cards added to ur deck in those subgame come with u into the previous game when u return to it. Also in case it isn't clear, if playing for ante then u need to put up a new ante at the start of each of those subgames. I was using Contract from Below as my only ante card since it is the best draw spell ever n thus y I have rules about ante but I'm not sure if ante would just be part of this format or on my if someone has n ante card. Also I don't yet know if I would make it both players or just the person bringing in ante cards. N I have been goldfishing the deck so iunno how I would treat the cards taken from the ante of subgames. So still some kinks to iron out but I love Shahrazad so much it is totally worth it even tho the more I test the deck the more I realize it really doesn't need Shahrazad as cutting their life in half n having a subgame with 20 life is way worse than searching 2 cards or bringing back the best permanent from ur deck when u leave the subgame n the fact their subgames only have 5 life. They r skool much stronger than Shahrazad but I can't bring myself to drop Shahrazad
What even the fuck is this comment.
ancestral recall
#1 not being Black Lotus or Recall is fascinating
It says Power 9 won’t be on the list
There’s literally NO “T” in
Mishra’s Workshop…. I hate the creator
You hate someone over that?
Are you mentally incompetent?
Like answer honestly.
Mana Crypt sucks, so does mana vault.
Not sure if this is April Fools or not…