Cory and Troy have a chat over what they're up to in their bees, and their plans for working collaboratively on a darker SMR (suppressed mite reproduction) line.
Cory from the other corner of this southern Missouri world. I've been daydreaming about various breeding systems and programs for 30 years in my silly holler nerd brain. Beekeeping for 7, grafting and open mating for 6. Started at 3 colonies. Now sitting stable ready to hit 500 colonies this year. Bee nerds for life. Im extremely interested in this this whole expirement. Super bees across the whole south of Missouri, then beyond lol.
Just finished reading The Russian Bee book. Sounds like similar traits. In the book it mentions the cocoon might be the reason why the mites don’t reproduce, but more studies need to be done. Mites and ticks. Treated my dog with the latest and greatest tick treatment made him sick and 3 months later we both had Lyme. We are both better. Like tick treatments mite treatments doesn’t kill the viruses. Science, magic and breeding brains back into bees again wishing you the best of luck.
Thanks for sharing Cory! Love the info! Keep it coming. Soaking up as much as my brain can handle!! Looking forward to helping my bees become more healthy and help the whole population.
There has to be a balance and a shared goal. The users need to get their bees through the winter however they can, but want to use the least amount of treatment. The Users need breeders that are aiming for treatment free bees that produce a decent amount of honey. With users giving the breeders data feedback we can work together and achieve great things.
Cory, exactly my spot. I’m the honey guy who is bringing in traits but treats everything because I’m overwhelmed and can’t risk stepping back with wintering success, so my thinking is to glean lower mites with good queens and clean up the rest. Not a good strategy to select and breed other than indirectly finding those successes. Ultimately the lower mite colony will rise to the top
@@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog I think your strategy is a solid and common sense approach for a honey production operation. It’s difficult to breed for measurable mite resistance, and manage a productive honey production operation simultaneously. Hopefully we’ve got some dark Northern VSH stock concentrated soon to inject into your population. I think it will make a big difference.
Cory it has been two years breeding from your queens I am starting to see huge progress in my queens. Also State inspector was impressed with your line that I breed from and don't treat.
I am looking forward to continuing to learn! Thanks for the time taken in teaching what you are doing. 👍🏻 Looking forward to helping in the overall health of bees!
I appreciate the information you always share. I unintentionally stopped treating years ago because my full-time job just had me too busy. I ended up having great winter survival rates, so I did it the next year and they were even better. That was about 7 years ago. I'm not against treating but I have just had better luck not treating and letting the strong ones survive.
Great talk! I acquired a few of Troy's K15 line & those bees are awesome! The Benjamin Conlon et al research group has done quite a bit of research into the "brood effect" of resistance you were talking about. They have shown some colonies can actually inhibit mite reproduction in drone brood via a specific genetic pathway related to the production of edycsterone, basically an insect version of testosterone. The mite needs to ingest a certain amount of edycsone before they can lay fertilized eggs. Some bees have a gene which evidently inhibits its levels in the developing pupae.
I had a crash and burn.... so far lost 9 out or 16...hoping for some survivors to work with in the spring...got to learn how to do Harbo assay this year, got a UBO setup to get to know this spring. Thanks for posting this vid. hope you all didn't eat too much and that Santa, or Mrs. Santa brought you something good! Happy new Year
Hey Cory, Merry Christmas the day after from the NW.😁Thank for this you Two and Everyone involved.👍 Minimal Treatment has been my over all philosophy I also do not use synthetics, I believe in lessening the impact of the environmental stressors not remove them, it seemed like the way to go. I want bees that I can help be productive, not bees that I have to do the work for. I have lost a quite few boxes of bees in my short beekeeping career, but in my opinion it'll pay off long run. I spent a year researching line traits/benefits along with the local Queen Breeders before I decided on the stock I was interested in. The main stock of my Apiary are from a 20+ year breeding program out of Rogue River OR, the others are Carni and Caucasian. The Apiary is named Old Sol Apiaries, I figured it would be beneficial to start off with a stock that was more resistant to semi- hygienic, VSH.( not sure what word fits) I Started 6 Sol and 4 of their Caucasians Last Season, Planing on another 10 of the Sol Stock this next Spring. I'm still real new and learning this is just my 3rd Winter, but the Sol Stock seem to be doing very well with the minimal treatment style. Just thought of it but Old Sol Apiaries might be interested in collaboration and a good company for you to talk to out here on the West Coast. I look forward to what you are able to do with the Dark Line, I have found that the Dark Line Queens seem to do better in the Wetter, Colder Climates. Much of my information is from videos but I have found that if I pay attention to what more knowledgeable beekeepers are saying ya pick up great pieces of information.
I know you said don't hope to see much from just one queen. And im not. But i grabbed two queens from Troy at our club picnic. And one was from Cory's line. My contest is just for survival over winter. Im hoping for 2 winners.....lol. but i will definitely be adding some more to my stock and help the cause.....it was a pleasure to meet you at the fall meeting as well, Cory.
As for mite washes the critical wash would be in the early spring just before the foragers start flying. Here in the north the mites would have been isolated in that hive for several months.
@@stevensbeeco767 Are you saying like Mid November? My thoughts are you want to see what the mite counts are after the incoming mites have stopped and when all the capped brood have emerged 13 days later. That way you can measure how effective the hive was in dealing with the incoming mite load.
"That's not what I said at all Cory." Actually - you are correct. I am seeing direct positive results from introducing selected stock, further selecting, moving those bees out and open mating from daughter colonies, and seeing SMR in many generations since the original importation. BUT - you have to be selecting!
@@stevensbeeco767 The true test of the impact will come this following season. The "Mating" yard, was sold by the landowner and I had to relocate a few miles away. The impact on surrounding population should remain consistent - or it will all be broken... we will see!
With a title like that I was expecting something more sinister, like a plan to take over the world or similar. 3 out of 5 stars due to lack of evil master plan. 5 out of 5 stars because I’d like some darker high VSH stock.
Good discussion. Thanks for sharing. What do you, Corey Stevens, or Troy look for in your VSH queen run hives that builds confidence that the desired traits are being expressed? Hoping the answer will not include time consuming UBO or liquid Nitrogen test methods. Something more in line with observations while performing routine 10-14 day inspections. Hope to see more post from you.
Thanks for your work. How will you build out your stationary apiaries, of a few thousand colonies, to the few million of migratory colonies that carry high mite loads around the country, that are constantly under colony stress?
@@jasonseaward8506 if you have good mite pressure, it’s an awesome test. It can catch both a brood effect SMR, and or the hygienic removal of parasitized and sick pupae. It’s possible they could function independent of each other.
@stevensbeeco767 yea there's always mites up here. And I live in the Florida of Canada so I can generally get started at least a few weeks before a good majority of the rest of Canada so I feel I'm in a good position, I'm just working on getting my business started right now but I think I have a good opportunity here to help send out a lot of queens to Canada.
Biggest problem is poor profitability in beekeeping. It takes time to monitor and select for the traits that we want. Time is money and I don’t see honey and bee prices where they need to attract young, intelligent and ambitious people. What is bulk honey going for these days, less the 2 a pound 🤮 Doesn’t help the our government allows not pure honey to be labeled as honey. More customers need embrace quality products and be willing to pay for it. Hope that happens in the future but it has been a slow road
Cory from the other corner of this southern Missouri world. I've been daydreaming about various breeding systems and programs for 30 years in my silly holler nerd brain. Beekeeping for 7, grafting and open mating for 6. Started at 3 colonies. Now sitting stable ready to hit 500 colonies this year.
Bee nerds for life.
Im extremely interested in this this whole expirement.
Super bees across the whole south of Missouri, then beyond lol.
Just finished reading The Russian Bee book. Sounds like similar traits. In the book it mentions the cocoon might be the reason why the mites don’t reproduce, but more studies need to be done.
Mites and ticks. Treated my dog with the latest and greatest tick treatment made him sick and 3 months later we both had Lyme. We are both better. Like tick treatments mite treatments doesn’t kill the viruses.
Science, magic and breeding brains back into bees again wishing you the best of luck.
Thanks for sharing Cory! Love the info! Keep it coming. Soaking up as much as my brain can handle!! Looking forward to helping my bees become more healthy and help the whole population.
Great collaboration fellas!
There has to be a balance and a shared goal. The users need to get their bees through the winter however they can, but want to use the least amount of treatment. The Users need breeders that are aiming for treatment free bees that produce a decent amount of honey. With users giving the breeders data feedback we can work together and achieve great things.
Cory, exactly my spot. I’m the honey guy who is bringing in traits but treats everything because I’m overwhelmed and can’t risk stepping back with wintering success, so my thinking is to glean lower mites with good queens and clean up the rest.
Not a good strategy to select and breed other than indirectly finding those successes. Ultimately the lower mite colony will rise to the top
@@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog I think your strategy is a solid and common sense approach for a honey production operation. It’s difficult to breed for measurable mite resistance, and manage a productive honey production operation simultaneously. Hopefully we’ve got some dark Northern VSH stock concentrated soon to inject into your population. I think it will make a big difference.
Thanks for your efforts and giving up Christmas time with your family to educate us. You rock, Mr. Stevens!
@@robinmartin4464 Troy and I recorded this a couple months ago. I finally got it posted. 😁 Merry Christmas!
Cory it has been two years breeding from your queens I am starting to see huge progress in my queens. Also State inspector was impressed with your line that I breed from and don't treat.
@@HoneyStoneFarm Excellent!
I am looking forward to continuing to learn! Thanks for the time taken in teaching what you are doing. 👍🏻 Looking forward to helping in the overall health of bees!
Great video, answers some of the questions I had and was going to track Cory down at the expo to ask.
Thanks for the info.
Troy too! This so interesting. The theories and nature are so sophisticated, the routes are needing a look!
I appreciate the information you always share. I unintentionally stopped treating years ago because my full-time job just had me too busy. I ended up having great winter survival rates, so I did it the next year and they were even better. That was about 7 years ago. I'm not against treating but I have just had better luck not treating and letting the strong ones survive.
Great talk! I acquired a few of Troy's K15 line & those bees are awesome! The Benjamin Conlon et al research group has done quite a bit of research into the "brood effect" of resistance you were talking about. They have shown some colonies can actually inhibit mite reproduction in drone brood via a specific genetic pathway related to the production of edycsterone, basically an insect version of testosterone. The mite needs to ingest a certain amount of edycsone before they can lay fertilized eggs. Some bees have a gene which evidently inhibits its levels in the developing pupae.
@@kellyb72601 That’s awesome!!
Good to hear your working on dark queens, ty.
I had a crash and burn.... so far lost 9 out or 16...hoping for some survivors to work with in the spring...got to learn how to do Harbo assay this year, got a UBO setup to get to know this spring. Thanks for posting this vid. hope you all didn't eat too much and that Santa, or Mrs. Santa brought you something good! Happy new Year
Looking forward to the upcoming season, Cory and Troy! Merry Christmas everyone!
@@brucesouthernsassapiaries8316 Same here! I’ve got some interesting opportunities in the works and curious to see how they shake out.
Hey Cory, Merry Christmas the day after from the NW.😁Thank for this you Two and Everyone involved.👍
Minimal Treatment has been my over all philosophy I also do not use synthetics, I believe in lessening the impact of the environmental stressors not remove them, it seemed like the way to go. I want bees that I can help be productive, not bees that I have to do the work for. I have lost a quite few boxes of bees in my short beekeeping career, but in my opinion it'll pay off long run. I spent a year researching line traits/benefits along with the local Queen Breeders before I decided on the stock I was interested in.
The main stock of my Apiary are from a 20+ year breeding program out of Rogue River OR, the others are Carni and Caucasian. The Apiary is named Old Sol Apiaries, I figured it would be beneficial to start off with a stock that was more resistant to semi- hygienic, VSH.( not sure what word fits) I Started 6 Sol and 4 of their Caucasians Last Season, Planing on another 10 of the Sol Stock this next Spring.
I'm still real new and learning this is just my 3rd Winter, but the Sol Stock seem to be doing very well with the minimal treatment style.
Just thought of it but Old Sol Apiaries might be interested in collaboration and a good company for you to talk to out here on the West Coast. I look forward to what you are able to do with the Dark Line, I have found that the Dark Line Queens seem to do better in the Wetter, Colder Climates. Much of my information is from videos but I have found that if I pay attention to what more knowledgeable beekeepers are saying ya pick up great pieces of information.
I know you said don't hope to see much from just one queen. And im not. But i grabbed two queens from Troy at our club picnic. And one was from Cory's line. My contest is just for survival over winter. Im hoping for 2 winners.....lol. but i will definitely be adding some more to my stock and help the cause.....it was a pleasure to meet you at the fall meeting as well, Cory.
Thanks. Very good talk.
As for mite washes the critical wash would be in the early spring just before the foragers start flying. Here in the north the mites would have been isolated in that hive for several months.
@@LittleRiverBees-or6qp Spring washes are a good starting data point, but they should be low. Late season washes are the most telling…..
@@stevensbeeco767 Are you saying like Mid November? My thoughts are you want to see what the mite counts are after the incoming mites have stopped and when all the capped brood have emerged 13 days later. That way you can measure how effective the hive was in dealing with the incoming mite load.
@@LittleRiverBees-or6qp We usually collect late season data the end of Aug through early Sept.
Looking forward to seeing you at EXPO again.
"That's not what I said at all Cory."
Actually - you are correct. I am seeing direct positive results from introducing selected stock, further selecting, moving those bees out and open mating from daughter colonies, and seeing SMR in many generations since the original importation.
BUT - you have to be selecting!
@@JamesLeesBees I thought that’s what I deduced from what you had told me. 😁
@@stevensbeeco767 The true test of the impact will come this following season. The "Mating" yard, was sold by the landowner and I had to relocate a few miles away. The impact on surrounding population should remain consistent - or it will all be broken... we will see!
Thanks it wasn’t too long I enjoyed it being treatment free
With a title like that I was expecting something more sinister, like a plan to take over the world or similar. 3 out of 5 stars due to lack of evil master plan. 5 out of 5 stars because I’d like some darker high VSH stock.
@@DuckRiverHoney 🤣
Pinky: “What are we going to do tonight Brain?”
Brain: “Same thing we do every night Pinky, PLAN TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!” ~evil laugh~
I think you mean SMR right?😜
Good discussion. Thanks for sharing. What do you, Corey Stevens, or Troy look for in your VSH queen run hives that builds confidence that the desired traits are being expressed? Hoping the answer will not include time consuming UBO or liquid Nitrogen test methods. Something more in line with observations while performing routine 10-14 day inspections.
Hope to see more post from you.
Thanks for your work. How will you build out your stationary apiaries, of a few thousand colonies, to the few million of migratory colonies that carry high mite loads around the country, that are constantly under colony stress?
@@hughreynolds6183 That’s a whole conversation in itself. I do have a long term plan to address that issue. Baby steps……
This is exciting
Merry Christmas y'all!!!
You guys are great , really excellent topics... Mr Hall, What type of hive numbers do you try to maintain?
300 honey production, 350 nucs, 400 mating nucs
300 honey production, 350 nucs / singles, 400 mating nucs during queen rearing.
Im up here in Canada and I'd like to do similar here. I feel like harbo assay is the most accurate method of testing VSH
@@jasonseaward8506 if you have good mite pressure, it’s an awesome test. It can catch both a brood effect SMR, and or the hygienic removal of parasitized and sick pupae. It’s possible they could function independent of each other.
@stevensbeeco767 yea there's always mites up here. And I live in the Florida of Canada so I can generally get started at least a few weeks before a good majority of the rest of Canada so I feel I'm in a good position, I'm just working on getting my business started right now but I think I have a good opportunity here to help send out a lot of queens to Canada.
I have to say, I didn't have the time to check which needed and which didn't need treated, so I treated all at least one oxalic acid treatment.
How much cells you open for SMR test?
So, I appreciate the queens... I still have bees.
So open mating your queens will effect my other hives in the yard that may swarm and make new queens because of the drones frome your queens?
@@rodbeckstedt8588 Yes. Whatever queens your running will have an effect on the new ones open mating.
The drones that queens produce are genetically quite similar to their mother.
For genetic diversity would it be easier to get drones from good mite resistance colonies.
Biggest problem is poor profitability in beekeeping.
It takes time to monitor and select for the traits that we want. Time is money and I don’t see honey and bee prices where they need to attract young, intelligent and ambitious people.
What is bulk honey going for these days, less the 2 a pound 🤮
Doesn’t help the our government allows not pure honey to be labeled as honey.
More customers need embrace quality products and be willing to pay for it.
Hope that happens in the future but it has been a slow road
@@nkapiariesjeffbeezos796 This is true.
What date did you do this talk?
@@richardreid2059 we recorded it a few months ago. Yes, I procrastinated on posting it. 🤣
I was wondering when Troy was talking about wrapping up queenrearing…..in December in NH 😂. Thanks, Happy New Year!