Best player and teacher in my books ,top shelf ! That jackson sounds Amazing! I learned more then any lesson on the caged System in 7 Mins with Troy ... Unbelievable How you teach 🙏
Thanks for being straight with new players, Bro. So many "teachers" on YT are just trying to get hits or students by avoiding the actual work of understanding theory as it pertains to the fretboard. Shortcuts don't exist, but roadblocks sure do.
Yes, expecially learning chords before someone knows what an INTERVAL is really pisses me off... As if someone is taught at school the multiplication table before knowing about addition and subtraction.
Your system taught me a big chunk of everything I know now. Heavy Metal Lead Guitar 2 on cassette back in the late '80's and early '90's. Battle to Victory, Drastic Measures and Babylon I can still play to this day! Thanks Troy, you're a stellar player and teacher!
In my opinion the problem lies in the way of teaching the CAGED system itself, that's because most guitarists learn it without any prior knowledge of the voice leading as a concept. The point is to differentiate sonically between building a chord progression in the same position using different forms and shifting the same chords horizontally to different positions on the neck. Jazz and fusion guitarists tend to know this issue better than their Rock & Metal counterparts because they learn it from the beginning. After I studied voice leading I had to rearrange the concept of the CAGED system in my head again. Thanks for this video Troy. You're the man and the teacher!
thanks Ehabsh... yeah, jazz folks are a bit more thorough. But I think that also comes down to CAGED not being seen as relevant to rock and metal. It is, but slightly more indirectly.
A few mins in & I'm lost with the fast talking in some foreign language (third, fifths, various forms of chords that I don't know the names of) Can't I just play what sounds cool? I just do that.
Very interesting! Thanks a lot! This video is shared and in its description it would be very good to place both a link to Patreon and a link to your social networks and website. It would be convenient for those people who get this video into "TH-cam offers" to follow these links right away.
I’ve never seen a guitar player with such technique, outstanding!!! I’m getting trouble with playing fast so i’m going to watch all your videos!! Thank you!!
I consider myself someone who uses CAGED, but when I say that, I mean that I visually reference chord shapes to know where each interval is in relation to the root, and thus know what interval I'm playing in relation to the underlying progression. That's both major and minor, and doesn't rely as much on the "CAGED" sequence itself; I don't use the sequence for anything. In fact, I just find the roots and their position around my fingers determines the chord shape. Like if I'm playing major with the root on the B string near my 1st or 2nd finger, that's the C shape. I have no idea how this relates to what is normally taught, just my take on it after cobbling together an understanding and experimenting with what works. Edit: moment of clarity after writing the original post. I don't use the sequence because it's confusing in a improv situation. You don't want to think "C shape" when you're playing a "G chord" as it's confusing when you have so little time. You just want to visualize the shape and see the notes light up. So in a sense, that's another criticism of the "system", which is the letters are distracting. It's good for learning initially, as it's easy to remember, but once you get used to just seeing the shapes as the chords go by, you're almost never going to use the sequence.
I agree. Potentially confusing to use chord names for the shapes. But we need to call the forms something. As we play however, best to just see the notes of say a c-form version of E major as box 3 area of E, and the fact that it’s a C form barre chord is a small detail. It’s about knowing the sound of those shapes and which notes are highlighted gravitation points
@@TroyStetinaMusic Absolutely true, we do need some shorthand to teach it. "CAGED" is useful as a descriptive mnemonic in that sense. BTW, I had and learned from Speed Mechanics way back in the mid 2000s. Great to see you on YT still doing it!
I have never used this method to memorize the notes of the keyboard, but I first started with the intervals, the triads, the quadriads, and all the inversions, then the scales and the boxes. Definitely a way that took a little more time but that made some concepts clear to me immediately. This caged is just a way to mess up and not want to know the keyboard in a more complete way, thinking of taking a shortcut but that in the end makes you go further because if you want to learn well and better then you have to go back to the fundamentals. As the saying goes: "the guitar is an easy instrument to learn ... bad".
E-D-C-A-G and C-A-G-E-D are the same thing. Like you said, it cycles. If you had demonstrated all the C chords starting from the bottom of the neck, the first shape would have been C, then A, etc.
@bossanovaboy I don't think CAGED has the edge over "Ed Cag" at all, actually. Edward is just as easily memorized, plus it begins with E, which is a more common guitar for guitar driven music, so it's immediately more useful and relatable. And while I agree that the important thing is how the chords relate to the scales, CAGED "properly" addressed relates to the major pentatonic boxes, which, again, are irrelevant to the majority of guitarists.... they learn minor pentatonic box 1 and the E form barre chord. So "Ed Cag" puts those two front and center. And then we can cross reference the major chord with the minor pentatonic and gain insight to the common major/minor ambiguity in rock and blues.
I never even thought of learning the caged system. I’m not even done with speed mechanics and I’ve yet to go to fretboard mastery! Hey Troy can you make a lesson on how to play the rain song solo? I love that solo so much! It’s what I call a complete solo, with shred and emotion
haha, yeah.. the "whole thing". If what you're getting at is that its basic presentation doesn't go far enough and that's the real trouble, I would agree. BTW what is "CAGED OS"??
@@TroyStetinaMusic Much Respect Troy you are great player and teacher.What I was saying that if they learned the whole thing which I call CAGED OS which stands for octave shape.I use your books all the time and I use them for teaching sometimes Thank you!
Yup, and that’s the point really, just seeing how the triads connect. But when you see that, as you say, it’s just knowing chord shapes. There is no real “system“ IMO
The "C" and "G" in the CAGED chords are barely even playable as barre chords, which makes them something you cannot actually get under your fingers, which kinda defeats the purpose of tying chord patterns to single note patterns. Plus the "maps" they provide are too big for beginners to handle. The same happens with the Pentatonic boxes. Not to mention the extra layer of "translating" you have to do to play the "X" shape of the "y" chord. Simply learning intervals of the actual "shapes" we actually already play and then where the other non chord tones intervals are in relation to them is the way to go.
@@TroyStetinaMusicYes. You get totally playable versions of chords, but not really the open CAGED versions. I start with the just the triads by string set, which can be used as is as chords or arpeggios and then they become inversions moving across the neck to the other string sets, but they never actually form the CAGED shapes. You actually only get 3 shapes/positions this way and they don't actually match up to any open chords...instead of giving up a triad in order to create the CAGED shapes For example: the "G" shape in CAGED requires you ditch the R-3-5 on strings G-B-D and replace it with R-3-R. Hope that makes sense.
Troy when you spoke of the relationship to the pentatonic scale, is that the sound Zakk Wylde plays in? When I hear him live his modulation can sway in relationship to the cords he's play to, then not. I know he's said its Pentatonic for him, but some stuff works, and some stuff doesn't, or can bend out of tune.
yeah he's mostly pentatonic for licks and contour patterns. But melodic motion usually involves adding the diatonic tones; he does that a little but not much
I LOVE MASTER YOU ARE THE BETS TICHER OF MUSIC GUITAR ELECTRIC ON THE UNIVERSE THANKS FOR YOU LOVE WHIT YOURS LESSONS I FROM VENEZUELA HABLO EN ESPAÑOL MI ENGLISH IS TERRIBEL
Yes, although to run everything through the filter of note names would be to add extra step… the patterns themselves represent the intervalic musical structures and relate directly to sound. So I say pattern first and note names secondary. At the same time though, note names are basic elements that also need to be covered
@@TroyStetinaMusic I'm going to subscribe because you get to the point without theater type lessons! Hopefully you can help me out! I'm a stroke victim and I'm having to reteach myself the guitar 🎸! Thankfully I not a paraplegic but I have memory loss and reduced motor skills! I'm not going to try to learn the entire fretboard but use the first three frets because I need a lower octave movie down to the 5th fret occasionally!
Sorry to hear that. But I’m aware the brains plasticity enables retraining/rewriting. Not easy but you will get there. And playing guitar is without a doubt good brain work!
@@TroyStetinaMusic I live in a long-term facility and I don't participate ❣️ in their activities because they let me play my 🎸 guitars and they agreed also it's my best form of therapy! Bump playing board games 😅 and bingo! They have me play for them because they say that they enjoy listening 🎧 to me 😹 play! I thumb pick and strum four chord songs! I don't shred but I enjoy playing modern genres of blues!
@@TroyStetinaMusic that you do and that's what makes it interesting! Every since I started watching your videos everyone and their brother are offering courses! To prevent Overkill I'm going to subscribe to yours!
Here's the Patreon link for those of you who want to check it out: patreon.com/TroyStetina
Best player and teacher in my books ,top shelf ! That jackson sounds Amazing! I learned more then any lesson on the caged System in 7 Mins with Troy ... Unbelievable How you teach 🙏
Thanks man! Glad to hear you are getting something out of these!
Thanks for being straight with new players, Bro. So many "teachers" on YT are just trying to get hits or students by avoiding the actual work of understanding theory as it pertains to the fretboard. Shortcuts don't exist, but roadblocks sure do.
Oh I like that… “shortcuts don’t exist, but roadblocks sure do”!!
Yes, expecially learning chords before someone knows what an INTERVAL is really pisses me off... As if someone is taught at school the multiplication table before knowing about addition and subtraction.
Your system taught me a big chunk of everything I know now. Heavy Metal Lead Guitar 2 on cassette back in the late '80's and early '90's. Battle to Victory, Drastic Measures and Babylon I can still play to this day! Thanks Troy, you're a stellar player and teacher!
That's awesome! Thanks Rahn, glad to hear it!
In my opinion the problem lies in the way of teaching the CAGED system itself, that's because most guitarists learn it without any prior knowledge of the voice leading as a concept. The point is to differentiate sonically between building a chord progression in the same position using different forms and shifting the same chords horizontally to different positions on the neck. Jazz and fusion guitarists tend to know this issue better than their Rock & Metal counterparts because they learn it from the beginning. After I studied voice leading I had to rearrange the concept of the CAGED system in my head again. Thanks for this video Troy. You're the man and the teacher!
thanks Ehabsh... yeah, jazz folks are a bit more thorough. But I think that also comes down to CAGED not being seen as relevant to rock and metal. It is, but slightly more indirectly.
15 seconds in and I'm subscribing and loving this guy!
Thanks Jesse
A few mins in & I'm lost with the fast talking in some foreign language (third, fifths, various forms of chords that I don't know the names of)
Can't I just play what sounds cool? I just do that.
thanks to this man I'm able to play guitar in a good level, thx for your books, they are pure gold
Very interesting! Thanks a lot!
This video is shared and in its description it would be very good to place both a link to Patreon and a link to your social networks and website. It would be convenient for those people who get this video into "TH-cam offers" to follow these links right away.
Good point... adding that now. Thanks!
Straight to the point! Best teacher 🎸🎸🙏
Thanks Joel!
I’ve never seen a guitar player with such technique, outstanding!!! I’m getting trouble with playing fast so i’m going to watch all your videos!! Thank you!!
You're welcome! Good luck with everything!
I've never seen this channel until today!
Welcome!
Great explanation
🤘
I consider myself someone who uses CAGED, but when I say that, I mean that I visually reference chord shapes to know where each interval is in relation to the root, and thus know what interval I'm playing in relation to the underlying progression. That's both major and minor, and doesn't rely as much on the "CAGED" sequence itself; I don't use the sequence for anything. In fact, I just find the roots and their position around my fingers determines the chord shape. Like if I'm playing major with the root on the B string near my 1st or 2nd finger, that's the C shape.
I have no idea how this relates to what is normally taught, just my take on it after cobbling together an understanding and experimenting with what works.
Edit: moment of clarity after writing the original post. I don't use the sequence because it's confusing in a improv situation. You don't want to think "C shape" when you're playing a "G chord" as it's confusing when you have so little time. You just want to visualize the shape and see the notes light up. So in a sense, that's another criticism of the "system", which is the letters are distracting. It's good for learning initially, as it's easy to remember, but once you get used to just seeing the shapes as the chords go by, you're almost never going to use the sequence.
I agree. Potentially confusing to use chord names for the shapes. But we need to call the forms something. As we play however, best to just see the notes of say a c-form version of E major as box 3 area of E, and the fact that it’s a C form barre chord is a small detail. It’s about knowing the sound of those shapes and which notes are highlighted gravitation points
@@TroyStetinaMusic Absolutely true, we do need some shorthand to teach it. "CAGED" is useful as a descriptive mnemonic in that sense.
BTW, I had and learned from Speed Mechanics way back in the mid 2000s. Great to see you on YT still doing it!
I have never used this method to memorize the notes of the keyboard, but I first started with the intervals, the triads, the quadriads, and all the inversions, then the scales and the boxes. Definitely a way that took a little more time but that made some concepts clear to me immediately. This caged is just a way to mess up and not want to know the keyboard in a more complete way, thinking of taking a shortcut but that in the end makes you go further because if you want to learn well and better then you have to go back to the fundamentals. As the saying goes: "the guitar is an easy instrument to learn ... bad".
haha! I like that... "the guitar is an easy instrument to learn ... bad"
thanks, Troy. Rock on!
Thanks, will do!
thanks alot troy!
You bet!
E-D-C-A-G and C-A-G-E-D are the same thing. Like you said, it cycles. If you had demonstrated all the C chords starting from the bottom of the neck, the first shape would have been C, then A, etc.
Yes they are and CAGED is more easily memorized. The more important is how they relate to scales which is the purpose of this system to my thinking.
yeah, yeah... but the real trouble with that is that no rock guitar player EVER started on C!
@bossanovaboy I don't think CAGED has the edge over "Ed Cag" at all, actually. Edward is just as easily memorized, plus it begins with E, which is a more common guitar for guitar driven music, so it's immediately more useful and relatable. And while I agree that the important thing is how the chords relate to the scales, CAGED "properly" addressed relates to the major pentatonic boxes, which, again, are irrelevant to the majority of guitarists.... they learn minor pentatonic box 1 and the E form barre chord. So "Ed Cag" puts those two front and center. And then we can cross reference the major chord with the minor pentatonic and gain insight to the common major/minor ambiguity in rock and blues.
Cheers Mate thank you for sharing rock on
You bet. Hope you're doing well!
I never even thought of learning the caged system. I’m not even done with speed mechanics and I’ve yet to go to fretboard mastery! Hey Troy can you make a lesson on how to play the rain song solo? I love that solo so much! It’s what I call a complete solo, with shred and emotion
I'll keep that in mind... I do like that solo. Good example of keeping it interesting by going to different places, using motifs, etc.
The trouble with the CAGED system is that most people don’t know the whole thing CAGED OS is the answer!
haha, yeah.. the "whole thing". If what you're getting at is that its basic presentation doesn't go far enough and that's the real trouble, I would agree. BTW what is "CAGED OS"??
@@TroyStetinaMusic Much Respect Troy you are great player and teacher.What I was saying that if they learned the whole thing which I call CAGED OS which stands for octave shape.I use your books all the time and I use them for teaching sometimes Thank you!
I'm glad to see this video because I'm having trouble 😂 with all of the above!
No worries, just learn one small piece at a time and it'll all come together eventually😊
The CAGED system also just recycles the other letters with a different root note. Essentially, C and D use the same Triad along with G and A
Yup, and that’s the point really, just seeing how the triads connect. But when you see that, as you say, it’s just knowing chord shapes. There is no real “system“ IMO
The "C" and "G" in the CAGED chords are barely even playable as barre chords, which makes them something you cannot actually get under your fingers, which kinda defeats the purpose of tying chord patterns to single note patterns.
Plus the "maps" they provide are too big for beginners to handle. The same happens with the Pentatonic boxes.
Not to mention the extra layer of "translating" you have to do to play the "X" shape of the "y" chord.
Simply learning intervals of the actual "shapes" we actually already play and then where the other non chord tones intervals are in relation to them is the way to go.
Yes! And I’d add mapping the arpeggios so you CAN play those awkward chord shapes as ‘partial chords’
@@TroyStetinaMusicYes. You get totally playable versions of chords, but not really the open CAGED versions.
I start with the just the triads by string set, which can be used as is as chords or arpeggios and then they become inversions moving across the neck to the other string sets, but they never actually form the CAGED shapes.
You actually only get 3 shapes/positions this way and they don't actually match up to any open chords...instead of giving up a triad in order to create the CAGED shapes
For example: the "G" shape in CAGED requires you ditch the R-3-5 on strings G-B-D and replace it with R-3-R.
Hope that makes sense.
@@georgechristiansen6785 sure. As long as your aware of the voicings (R 3 5 placement) you’re golden!
Troy when you spoke of the relationship to the pentatonic scale, is that the sound Zakk Wylde plays in? When I hear him live his modulation can sway in relationship to the cords he's play to, then not. I know he's said its Pentatonic for him, but some stuff works, and some stuff doesn't, or can bend out of tune.
yeah he's mostly pentatonic for licks and contour patterns. But melodic motion usually involves adding the diatonic tones; he does that a little but not much
magic 8 ball knows all, tells all - cheers troy
gotta love it
I LOVE MASTER YOU ARE THE BETS TICHER OF MUSIC GUITAR ELECTRIC ON THE UNIVERSE THANKS FOR YOU LOVE WHIT YOURS LESSONS I FROM VENEZUELA HABLO EN ESPAÑOL MI ENGLISH IS TERRIBEL
Thank you Albert!!
Epic shirt. 😆
yes, I believe it is🤣
I always felt it was stupid. Just learn the notes on the neck and how to build 1 3 5 triads. No need to limit yourself with “systems”.
Yes, although to run everything through the filter of note names would be to add extra step… the patterns themselves represent the intervalic musical structures and relate directly to sound. So I say pattern first and note names secondary. At the same time though, note names are basic elements that also need to be covered
Shirt hidden message=DGAF=don't give a fuck. Good one, lol
Uhhhh, guess it’s not hidden any more 😉
I like your magic ball 😎🤣
👍
Bar chords are My enemy! They make my nightmares come true!
No!!!! They come in peace ☮️ they want to be your friend!
@@TroyStetinaMusic I'm going to subscribe because you get to the point without theater type lessons! Hopefully you can help me out! I'm a stroke victim and I'm having to reteach myself the guitar 🎸! Thankfully I not a paraplegic but I have memory loss and reduced motor skills! I'm not going to try to learn the entire fretboard but use the first three frets because I need a lower octave movie down to the 5th fret occasionally!
Sorry to hear that. But I’m aware the brains plasticity enables retraining/rewriting. Not easy but you will get there. And playing guitar is without a doubt good brain work!
@@TroyStetinaMusic I live in a long-term facility and I don't participate ❣️ in their activities because they let me play my 🎸 guitars and they agreed also it's my best form of therapy! Bump playing board games 😅 and bingo! They have me play for them because they say that they enjoy listening 🎧 to me 😹 play! I thumb pick and strum four chord songs! I don't shred but I enjoy playing modern genres of blues!
I hope you don't review guitars!
Too harsh? Call it as I see it
@@TroyStetinaMusic that you do and that's what makes it interesting! Every since I started watching your videos everyone and their brother are offering courses! To prevent Overkill I'm going to subscribe to yours!