Check out the new Honkai: Star Rail 1.4 patch and the console update here! hoyo.link/86ceFkEL #AD And also be sure to check out Vars II for Honkai: Star Rail Content :D
Renatas issue that she constantly makes you feel like you were THIS CLOSE to a huge play, but almost never grants you the satisfaction of actually getting there.
I agree with everything said by vars and other players. That said I do tend to play renata semi often, and I’m not a particularly good player and my win rate is at 70%. The champion hasn’t really disappointed me other than it’s a bit boring to play her
I will not lie, I made an active attempt to make Renata top work as a weakside enchanter support because the character looks sick. Never worked out lol
Jesus judt do Renata adc, her %health actually works well with the right items, can 3 shot a malphite. You need someone with you otherwise your damge falls off.
support top can work for certain champs. Nautilus top has some crazy dueling potential in the early game, and by the time your damage starts falling off you'll have enough items to be an unkillable tank applying cc in team fights without a care.
Her ap ratios are truly ass to make those abilities feel impactful, you Q as karma and watch the enemy lose half their hp bar but E as Renata and you tickle them
She does have a fair bit of agency vs weaker matchups because of her q and poke if you go cheap shot and shield bash. She's basically a budget hook champ that then thrives in the all in battle that ensues after the hook.
@@wooaahh23 it’s not even that she’s inherently bad, it’s that she’s feels awful to play. Her W and R make her strong by themselves, but maybe Riot should consider taking some power away from those abilities to make a well rounded champion who actually has a player base.
I remember when she came out and everyone was talking about how broken she was going to be and my first thought was just, "literally none of her abilities have any synergy. It's like they took four completely separate abilities designed for completely separate champions and just welded them together and hoped it worked."
You could say that about a lot of enchanter supports, though. Where's the synergy in Lulu's kit, or Janna's, or Nami's? At least with Renata's kit you could Q two enemies together, E to slow them both and R to berserk them while they can't get out of the way for a pretty simple combo. You're probably never going to actually pull that off in a real game, what with all the blinks/dashes the enemies have to avoid your ult, but it's technically possible.
@@KuroKamii94 Hmm, I dunno. Yeah, you can bubble into ult or ult into bubble, and your passive procs off of all your spells, but none of her abilities really get any better because of any of her other abilities from what I'm seeing. Nothing like Soraka's Q giving her the health she needs to donate with her own healing ability, or Blitzcrank/Leona hook setting them up for a stun. I guess it depends on what you specifically define as synergy, too.
@@kevingriffith6011 Idk i kinda think most enchanters kits feel pretty synergistic. everything in janna's kit is defensively minded and is built around keeping people from jumping on you or your team. Lulu's EQ is like the definition of synergy, and her W and E being able to be cast on allies and enemies to do different things kind of ties them together. Her ult kinda stands out on its own, but its an ult so I think thats fine. Soraka's synergy is pretty obvious and her only standout really being E, but its a pretty unique ability and benefits from Q slow. I would say Renata does kinda generally not synergize with herself too well, since she is a unique enchanter/catcher hybrid sorta similar to Nami. I think Nami does it a little better because she is just less situational, but their kits provide somewhat similar things (cc on Q, damage + heal/shield ability, buff button, and long range CC super ultimate). I wouldn't really say that makes Renata like not cohesive in any way though. She still feels like a complete champion, she just tends to only really shine when her team knows how to play with her and in the situations where her tools are incredibly effective. She is like a more niche Nami in practice IMO. Higher highs, but lower lows.
That's my biggest issue with her too. You don't really have a follow-up to any of her abilities. Isolated an enemy with Q? Great, now you can't do anything, especially since E and R are supposed to be used on crowds. Buffed your ally with W? I guess you could also shield them, but the shield amount is miniscule. I feel like she isn't good at anything.
as a renata main this makes me so sad because i know its true - i feel so punished for playing my favourite champ because she requires 10x more effort to get the same amount of output as a soraka or lulu just mashing W (if not less)
I promised myself to boost Renata's winrate that every time i am gonna get hit by her ult ill pop everything to boost me. Ghost? Now on cooldown, Steroid Ult? Using it, Any form of AA enhancer? I will get the +12 from my ally. Tenacity? Now i am alergic to it.
Renata suffers from overbalancing. Her kit would be broken in theory but they nerfed everything to the max which Is why She suffers Her abilities barely have any synergy. She needs a full rework
One of the best ways riot can make her more satisfying is tweak her cooldowns and her mana costs. Her Q, W, and E all cost 80 mana at rank one and each have over a 10 second cooldown which is ridiculous considering how hard they are to land and get right
Unfortunately with how much she's used in pro play it's really hard to make any changes on her to make her feel better and do better without making her broke in pro play. I think riot just needs to rework this one.
I love Renata's design and lore, and her kit. But the biggest issue I think is her kit is too slow, especially her E. Unless I'm mistaken her E is the primary poke best used when your adc is nearby. The problem is its slow as molasses and has a VERY short range, on top of dealing VERY little damage making it easy to ignore. I do think Renata needs a buff to put her in line with other enchanters. If they want to keep her damage lower, then her Q and E need projectile speed increases, and her E needs way more range. But if reversely, shede need more damage if they keep the range and speed the same. Her bailout is fine as is imo. And her ult I think only needs a slight speed increase.
For her ult, it would either be faster projectile speed or a little bit larger width. Her E should have a quicker projectile speed, but her Q needs to be a little bit wider. Other than that, everything else feels perfect.
Honestly, the changes i would make for her is to increase the projectile speed of her q, e and ult, increase the range of her e, make the width of her ult a bit wider like you said, and of she puts w on you, there's either a voice line or some type of more of effect on screen that basically tells you to get yo ass back in the damn fight
and all of cooldowns are too high. all of them 15 secs+ until 18 lvl they re still high, 10+ sec cooldown and her kits speed is too slow, movement slow af. its hurt team in end game. she become useless in middle game
I think it’s so dumb that her ult can be cleansed or gone by tenacity and it is so useless early anyway so it shouldn’t have less berserk time in early r point levels (also slow as hell you need flash to make it work a bit)
She's the Ivern of Support lane. A weird mix of roles, and rare enough that few in soloqueue can coordinate with her but not so rare Riot will do anything about it.
as someone who plays renata as their main support, i feel like there's an important point to be made for her: proactivity. as you mentioned, renata has playmaking capabilities, which is what personally make me prefer her over other enchanters. it gives me the feeling that, when things go wrong, i at least had a part in it due to wrong spell usage. this of course does not help her solo q factor at all, but it is the reason why i will pick her over any other enchanter any day of the week.
Renatas ability to be proactive compared to other meta picks is severely lacking though, nami is better on that front, and rakan is probably the best for it atm if you're looking at enchanteresque. Rell obviously being the premier pick for proactive gameplay from support rn.
Can definitely confirm. the games where I do really well are the ones where I stare down the map and run at the enemy jungle and start a fiesta around first scuttle. then shove bot recall roam. freeze bot wait for gank -> shove roam -> repeat. The worst you can do is stay in lane forever. you get outpoked by mage supports and lose trades vs tank engages. play making is definitely a strength of her. That said - she plays more like a fiddle sticks punishing poor vision control and positional mistakes / greedy engages. rather than an enchanter support. And I don't think anyone is better at that than her. but She is a shitty laner. she has strong lvl 1->5. But lvl 6 her ult just doesn't cut it and that si simply because it is exponentially anti-snyergistic with the flow of battle. Not only is the duration shorter: it's on an insanely long cooldown and people don't even have their mythic yet which means auto attack damage isn't there yet. So at best its an aoe stun with no damage :( what you can do however and that makes her really great vs tank supports: build tank and harass enemy adc from range. short trading E -> auto shield bash with them is guaranteed to come out in your favour. and if enemy tank engages you -> you can peel with Q and your adc can go ham on them. which is why I think she's great pre lvl 6. Why early roaming is probably a wincon for her. however in the lategame Renata just absolutely loves a good samira / yone / yi / yasuo / twitch. It should be obvious why. But the value she brings for them is insane. They literately want everything her kit has to offer.
I really like playing her because of her personality and super ultimate. I find it is more effective to cast it behind walls so enemies cant see it coming.
One of my favorite ways to use it is by ulting as counter engage. Renata has to stand behind her team so counterengaging with R is pretty simple, it's similar to Xayah R really. Yeah it's slow but if enemies are coming towards you they can't escape. I'm not a renata player just a casual enjoyer so yeah that's just how I do it. Fog of war plays are pretty sick too
It's a shame that Renata is weak/unplayable. Along with Senna, she is the most interesting female support character owing to her Chembaron fantasy and weird playstyle. She exudes so much character, yet despite her abilities coming off as creative beCAUSE of the obtuse conditions applied to her, said obtuse conditions end up making her too difficult to play correctly, which is why her pickrate hovers around 0.1% and her banrate even lower.
I'd say it's the other way around. They dropped the ball with her fantasy. I feel like Renata's design is a mess both visually and thematically. To start, she is supposed to be an egotistical "drug lord" commander type, with a similar energy as Swain. While both of them are just "old humans", Swain walks with purpose, has a big black cape covering his demonic arm and has an overall interesting silhouette, all skills are "raven" themed with red and black contrast and all come from his same arm. Renata on the other hand, has a boring, emotionless walking animation, her skill cast animations are also almost non-existent, and the color scheme does not convey any sort of alchemical "poison", "gas" or "steroid" other than her R, they are pink and blue (???). Her skills have little to no sound feedback either, other than R. I didn't forget the weird floating bot or whatever that is, that casts half her skills - but that's how it feels, almost like it isn't there, completely irrelevant to the champions visual and gameplay identity. Orianna's ball has more personality than that thing. And from a gameplay perspective, it also seems like the devs spent all their creativity in the W and R and forgot about the rest of the kit. P, Q and E are so uninteresting, unoriginal that they could fit (and they do) in any other champion. W and R on the other hand represent her actual "identity" as a support with dangerous potential to turn a good engagement from your team into a bad one, through the power of drugs and betrayal. The 5 skills really don't fit together very well, thematically. Going back to Orianna's ball, since they gave Renata a bot that casts skills and her identity is to put others in front to die for her, why not also copy the ball's mechanics: Renata can use W to attach her bot to an allied champion (no ground targeting like Ori. Include minions maybe?). She can then reactivate W on the same champ to make it defy death or on another champion to swap the bot around. Skills are cast from the bot, not from Renata. That way, she will thematically fit better as a "commander" type champ that likes to sit on the back watching other do her bidding while she controls the battlefield from afar. This also improves her Q and E design's of being too reliant on best case scenario positioning compared to other similar skills.
@@voidgods I guess you don't really understand Renata's character if you think she's supposed to be an egoist. Renata's far from being egoistic, she's a good person with PTSD after losing her parents due to Piltover's corporation's attack on their lab and now she wants vengeance and she's willing to do anything to achieve her goal. After losing her parents she's decided that doing people a favour all the time by helping them for free will only create situations when she's gonna be used by other people. Her walking animation is supposed to be emotionless, confident and disrespectful. Just because in your mind an "alchemist" archetype is supposed to use poisons, it doesn't mean that Renata is supposed to use them. She's an owner of a renowned pharmaceutical company, so that makes sense that she's using something more refined and elegant than just straight up toxins (like Singed).
@@voidgods The color scheme makes sense if you watched arcane. Shimmer (the drug) is pink/purple-ish, so her chemical being in that color scheme (even though it isn't stated that she is using shimmer) adds up.
@@voidgods Of course she's bad at being "the alchemist" or "the drug lord" or "the commander", it's not her character. Her character is "the ruthless CEO" willing to go far to gather power and willing to use that power to go far. She uses chemicals because she's from Zaun, and in Zaun power takes the form of chemicals. It could have been anything else if she came from elsewhere, but her character only makes sense from Zaun. She's not a commander : she's never been at a war that wasn't corporate, she doesn't value loyalty and has no ideal for others to rally around. She's not after physical might and deadliness : she values money, influence and connections. Attaching her bot to an ally ? Why the hell would she do that ? It is HERS, for her security and convenience as the VIP, because in the end she is a civilian in the middle of a battle. And there is no way she'd lend it to some disposable pawn/peasant. This is not comparable to Orianna moving her ball to an ally, but more like asking Ezreal to give his gauntlet to someone more competent
I really enjoy Mz Glass and hope her kit doesn’t get an overhaul because of her pick rate. She’s very fun to play and also because nobody plays her so more often than not the other team doesn’t know what to do with her. Also, landing her ult during a team fight is one of the most satisfying things ever.
As a main: -Her skillshots are very slow, specially E and R. Sometimes you miss shields just because they are slower than most teammates with tier 2 boots. -She is more reactive and defensive, her offense usually sucks but she can be great with a well placed Q vs engages to disengage. -Her ultimate can be detrimental. If there is only one enemy champ alone it's an attack speed buff for them to kill you and your partner so don't use it. You now have 3 skills on your kit. -Ultimate is very very slow, to the point that you need to use flash on a buffered ult to surprise people. Sometimes it's amazing sometimes is non impactful. Maokai's Ult at least speeds up and does damage. It is also very unclear how much effects you can apply with it, like imperial mandate on enemies, or using your ardent censer and waterflow buffs on them for faster DPS. -Her W is fantastic but most teamates don't have visual clarity or don't understand it.They think it's a second chance or a Zilean ult and they flee the fight instead of trying a second all in to revive. This also ties into Shurelya being her only good mythic. -Passive was actually pretty strong with a teammate and got nerfed immediately after release. I think she is great in gameplay concept but she feels super clunky sometimes, added to her gameplan promoting passivity and reactiveness she can feel terrible and even boring in some games or amazing when you pull it off.
More reactive and defensive, I think that is like playing shaco AP - where you need to wait for people to attack you. I think we need somewhat another initiator in a team with Renata to make her better in CC and abilities to work
I'm pretty sure her E has a small AOE around her at launch which allow you to shield your allies, if you are standing next to them, and not behind them (as long as you're close enough)
It was more about the laning phase (mentioned at 14:01 ) because Renata doesn't have to stand behind ADC to shield. Now that I'm thinking about it, it's probably even possible to shield your ADC behind you.
@@chargoal_games Should just work like Yasuo windwall, that spawns a few dozen (45?) units behind Yasuo and travels forward over its duration. This means Yas can theoretically block a skillshot from BEHIND himself with the wall if he casts it in the opposite direction; likewise it would allow Glasc to shield behind herself at whatever the hitbox of the missile is. Or just a simple 300 unit pulse on cast similar to its collision aoe
Renata became one of my favorite champs during the arena mode. She was hard to catch or kill outright and worked with a lot of the augments. On summoners rift it feels like you're in spectator mode 75% of the time. Mostly I think because her q doesn't get any cooldown with levels so you're forced to max e.
I never thought about her design this way. I've been playing her since release and hit Emerald with her. Honestly, I like her kit and there are ways to manipulate around some of the issues but its definitely more effort then should be required when you could play a different champ and get potentially better results and have an easier time doing it.
I have a large history of playing champions that people hate or don't play. I really love champions like Shaco, Rammus, Nunu, Ivern, Renata, Zilean, etc... Renata is one the 3 champions that I played since minute 1 of release: Pyke, Ivern and Renata and I play her a lot nowadays. Top 3 most used supports for me right now are Janna, Renata and Zil
I agreed - we usually play Renata, Zilean, Senna, Rakan, Sona...but I guess a good thing about Renata and Zil's low pick-rate is no one knows how to play against them We once had a trAshe (crap Ashe adc) so we played Senna, aced it, got a penta and dominated. If you want damage play Senna, Sona or Pyke. If you want cc play Rakan or Zilean. If you want one not known for damage but the truest support of them all without being boring or braindead like Yuumi, play Renata
The worst feeling as an adc when playing with renata is when you fall outside the specific use of her W. If you kill BEFORE you die, you still die. If you die just when the buff expires you still die. Even if thats what the buff encouraged you to do, you are still punished for using it.
As a renata main myself, if u die after the w runs out its usually the Renata's fault. Shpuld always be able to time the w with death unless something very niche happens.
@csababobalo8692 if you kill before death, then you enter zombie, and oh wait there's no one else to kill or there's no way to kill another person in 2 seconds and you still die.
@csababobalo8692 they mean if you kill the enemies, then die to their ignite or the auto they launched before death... then you enter into the 3 second pre-death state and die because you already killed all avaliable enemies. Which punishes you for using the skill how it was intended, to dive in and knife fight to the death, and worse, you are punished _for succeeding_ too well.
@@Wuuj_ the skill has a huge AS buff. Not using your W in case your allies ever get in the blink of death is also keeping them from dealing as much damage as they could've if you used it sooner. Sure it was "her fault" since the adc would be alive had she held it a while longer, but the enemy might not have even died had she not used it the moment she did. The skill is designed in a way that makes you feel like you did something wrong regardless of the choices you make or the overall outcome unless it all goes absolutely in your favor...
Remember when people thought renata was gonna be broken? Yeah. Me too. Knew she was niche How to fix her: make her Q root/stun slightly longer, make it do if you push a enemy into a wall it stuns them (one of these changes would suffice. I prefer the wall one) Make her W cooldown shorter but make it’s cool down be much longer if the revive triggers (to its current cooldown) Make her E get better as it hits multiple targets (Kinda like sera ult does) Her ult is fine.
They advertised her as a 'dark enchanter' and instead you get: A hook, insanely useless revive steroid on a 25sec cd, a shield that requires the moon/stars to line up with trash ap ratio, an ult slower than me graduating college that lasts for not even an entire second while giving NO boosts to your allies. A passive that means you have to stay up close in a fight to get any value from it- AUTOS ON AN ENCHANTER LEL I was so pissed when i saw her kit after following all the teasers and hints :(
yes and no, it would be a hindrance most of the time ngl. sure you're guaranteed to hit an enemy and therefor might resurrect but it's also just as likely to pick one that isnt feasible to kill in time and therefor just being an annoyance. could possibly do it so it targeted the lowest hp one or something but that also brings the issue of "is the lowest hp one the best one to pick off?" you could be in a situation where the higher hp one is still killable and way more of a threat and instead of taking care of that you've just been forced to remove a essentially non-issue champ
also, a taunt would remove the ability to use anything but autos, which sure most ADCs can deal with however there are non adcs in your team aswell and even adcs sometimes need to use abilities.
If it jsut punt you in auto attack stake vs lowest hero in range that might be good. And it would only be a simple attack command wich can easily be overwritten
You misunderstand Renata's Baillout. You see it as a "buff" ability type, when in reality it is a "save" ability type. Its a Zilean ult with a buff and a condition attatched.
The thing is that she has so much more untapped potential that you didn't even mention, which makes her incredibly hard to balance without nerfing her. First and foremost her E can shield so many people, including people RIGHT next to her, which means that she doesn't necessarily have to aim her skill shot as long as her allies are in the range of the halo around her. And this multi shield can apply a pletora of passive items effect, such as Surelya or SoFW. This gives her a stupid amount of versatility and adaptative building. And she is also an incredibly powerful situationnal counter pick ! The ennemy support is a tank ? How nice ! You have a shield that you don't need to aim that will also slow the engage support, because they are in your adc's face your passive is stupidely easy to proc and effective because of the %HP dmg, and your Q is going to be the best "go of my adc" tool ever and can easily stop their engage before they even reach your adc and do anything to them. The ennemy team is full of AD carries with lots of attack speed who love to go in ? Do they have ONE Master Yi ? Well guess which ult is design to DESTROY those champions ? She might be a 40-140 in al lot of cases, but she can easily become a 90-170 when she's counter picking. Plus the natural potential of all her abilities that you already talked about. Give her the correct ennemy team comp and like one teamates with lots of attack speed and she's just straight up carrying !
You summarized it really well. "Conditional" I really enjoy Renata but all of her abilities just...feel so bad at times and "ok" at their peek. Q is really cool on paper but it has short range and comes out slowly on an extremely immobile champ. You never really feel like using W for it's buffs because you rather save it for a revive cause of the CD. But then thats if whoever you're reviving not only gets a kill but actually even remembers how her W works and doesn't just run away. Her R is just straight up gutted depending on the enemy. Did you stomp your lane? Well hurray your R won't have crazy value because you're so ahead. Or the enemy just doesn't pick strong auto attackers so it feels mediocre. And her builds just feel awkward. You only really pick battlesong for the active. Her E makes her stand still and is a skillshot so its not like you're gonna be pumping in speed. Some people run radiance/tanky which is cool? But it doesn't really pan out that well. I feel like if they do anything i would like it if Q and E were able to be cast while moving.
I HATE how true the W part is, i W my 5/0 kaisa in lane and she just Runs away from the enemy and its so frustrating cause the cd is so long that means i wasted a huge cd on someone who doesnt know how to use it
EVERYTHING in her kit is slow moving. The only thing with decent enough speed is her e and even that is just "ok". And my lord that passive feels so useless
also the fact that one of her main points on her ultimate when she was teased was her stealing baron and dragon. but that never works out because 1. the ult slow af 2. the enemy has smite its very rare for her ult to steal drag or baron
I agree with everything here a lot! I think her design, theme and game play are very fun, but it takes one too many stars to align in solo queue for things to work out well with her. I'm not sure what they can do since she almost has the Morgana problem, where her one of her spells is too strong (at least potentially) to allow for other areas to be stronger and more consistent.
Only once I played into a GM Renata main and I must say - she has so much potential I was stunned by how good he was. He singlehandedly destroyed the entire lobby. Insane.
Very happy about this WNOP. I knew she would be on the to do list. She's so interesting as a champion but i prefer playing her in Aram than summoner's rift. I was so surprised they gave her a prestige skin.
I'll still of the opinion that if they removed the revive from her W, they could buff the rest of her kit to give her more power at baseline, thus improving her general use. The revive is holding her back, get rid of it and she could be stronger and less restrictive.
It's funny I've been playing tons of Renata for about a month now then this vid comes out, I looove her kit. I am far from pro or anything but I cannot recommend these things enough if any of you want to try her out: - Hold your R, when you think it's gunna be decent don't use it. When it looks great THEN use it, this spell REALLY needs time to learn. - W is a great catching tool, don't use it for the revive only, It's a great stim to AS and movement speed towards enemies so see it as a potential rundown tool to give to your carry. - Consider Mandate 1st item, then I have been building Crown of the Shattered Queen 2nd and it's been working well for me so give that a try. - Whenever applicable try to Q someone THEN E them to slow them while their in the bad spot u put them in with the Q. If not then E to slow and make the Q easier to land. - Finally if an objective like drake or Baron are coming up, save your R and focus on getting in a good position to hit as many as possible, even the threat of your R can cause panic. Gl hf!
Played some Renata when it came out. Her ult always seemed good, but has that same problem what Maokai got after he received his current R. It was way too slow and you was able to walk it out. Same goes for Renata if you don't cast it from standing in the enemy's face or out of vision, there is simply way too much mobility in the game to dodge it. Enemies start to hit each other sound cool, but only usefull when you hit the adc, Yas, Yone Irelia, or Belveth. Hitting enemies like enemy Control mage support doesn't bring any value for the berserk part. That extra 150 dmg what they will deal from 2 auto attack won't change the outcome of the fight, and as current things stands adc will take cleanse the ult becomes basically useless. Agree with what you said about Q and E. I would add that you can use W to boost your adc's dmg if you play on a lane where there is no threath of dieing in 2v2 and you saw enemy jg on the other isde of the map.
I wish renata were more popular. I love playing Aatrox, Vi, Xin Zhao with attack speed, and popping ghost or powering up my autos before the ult hits me to kick the ass of my friends.
There are few mistakes you made in my opinion Q is a strong peel ability. If used correctly, you can prevent engages in laning phase against engage supports, you can prevent ganks, interrupt dashes and peel better then other hooks in any other scenario. Also, it allows you to setup your other spells or in reverse, other spells can help you to land Q. I think at worst Renata's Q can be a little bit (just a little) then the others, but having so many use cases - it's one of the best hooks W should not be compared like other buff spells. It's really different in practice compared to other buffing skills. For example, with Lulu or other champions that buff allies, they usually buff only they adc, but with Renata there is so much value gained by buffing anyone. Divers, assassins, even yourself. You can save a key member of your team with one W. And I found that the attack speed and move speed buffs are just to help get a kill to revive yourself. Basically what I'm trying to say is that the stat buff does not matter that much. Additionally in the mid/late game w cooldown goes to 10-15s, compared to other buff spells 5-10s. With this much value in a single skill on 10-15s cooldown you can revive 2 people (or one person 2 times). Effectively turning a game into 6.5 v 5. And when you compared W to other champion buff abilities, you said that you have to stick to one person (a.k.a. adc), but in reality there is so much value by using this ability on different team members, that it makes other buff abilities look less versatile. E shield and damage is low, but the slow IMO is the strongest aspect of this ability. You can setup your Q and R with the slow. You can peel for the team or prevent ganks in the laning phase. Also, it's a really good spell to apply item buffs such as Shurelya's. Making this ability a team wide speed buff and an aoe slow. R is slow and hard to engage with it, but there are some points that I want to mention. First of all, it's a great peeling tool. It's basically a wind wall for champions. Also in the laning phase, you can use bushes and flash to catch people off guard for easy kills. One of the strongest things I found is that if you are low, you can W yourself, ult and stopwatch for a free kill and a revive. One more thing. You mentioned that it has a side effect of "if there are no other targets, you are buffing your enemy with the berserk buff", in reality, it's next to impossible case scenario, since there is always lane minions or jungle camps nearby. So in the case if it's one target ult, you just get a free stun. And finally her passive! It's weak and only good vs low range comps. That's it. The only good thing I found, that it can help your team to take early drakes, but that's about it. Sorry for flashing my mastery 7, but just wanted to voice my opinion. You got some points right, but wanted to add my input on what I think you got wrong. (And note, that English is not my first language, I may have made some mistakes, but I hope it's readable) And also, big fan. Use code Vars!
I do have a couple possible counters as well. In the video they talk about the engage aspect of her q in respect to hook supports, where it generally is the worst, and talk about how, in a game where you would want it for peel, a peel ability such as janna q is much higher value. There aren't really enough scenarios where both the engage and peel are needed in a game for this to make her q that much more impactful than a standard peel or engage ability. For her w, the attack speed/move speed buff is also more necessary than you think, because without it, you are saying that the difference in lane between fights has to be just barely in favor of enemy, so they are low when your ally dies, even though you are playing down one ability, so the stat buff is really important for lane function and trades, especially since she doesn't have any other good consistent sustain for her teammate. Also, if you are saying it is mainly just saved for the rez, then you are saying is another contingent ability. For her to find value off of arguably her most impactful ability, her carries have to, focused, they have to die, the fight has to be close enough for her ally to finish off the enemy, and the enemy can have a good escape/immunity spell/ability/ or item. It's a lot of conditions to put on such an important ability, which is why the attack/move speed is so important to it, and why the rez doesn't turn it into an ability that's not very niche. The slow is nice on the e, but in reality, it gets most of it's value in lane. For setting up abilities, it still isn't strong enough to be good into high mobility engage comps, because their dashes and movement + high burst usually either makes it so the slow doesn't hit them, doesn't affect them, or they have already finished their combos in the time it takes for her very long e/q cast time, or e/r meanwhile, she would be neglecting casting w, which is usually more important into these comps. Into front to back, usually she is just hitting immobile frontline and doesn't need the slow to begin with, and into high ranged poke, she is at too much risk of poke/being chunked to walk up for e and normally just plays around carry to drop w/r around. Also, the cast time makes it easy to dodge at those distances. When it comes to peeling for ganks, mostly her q and w and r are more impactful, because the e slow doesn't do much to prevent the dashes or long ranged cc of most junglers. For the r, as a peel tool, I agree it's nice, but the cast time still does mean it struggles into assassins that peel characters are usually picked for, it only really shines when playing stand your ground into front to back engage, which isn't that many games. As for engage, as you seem to kind of agree, it's only really effective in lane, with flash, and with bush prio and with the element of surprise. If you are looking for a character to help play engage, there are MUCH more consistent and reliable engages, that can play with equal bush prio, without flash, without the element of surprise, and are useful as a primary engage ALL game, so there's not much of a reason to pick renata for engage. and for the stopwatch play, it's not really consistent enough or useful enough to really change anything. It means they have to be focusing you over your carries, which usually either means you mispositioned, your carry is afk, or the enemies are already getting less value, because of bad focus. It only really works when teams full commit onto you. You only have stopwatch once per game and it doesn't always get value, so it's only effective once, and you aren't using your w on your carry, which also isn't great. Also, I kind of disagree with the passive. It's damage is so impactful in lane and can singlehandedly win trades/fights plus it's super consistent. It's one of the only things that makes up for how inconsistent most of her kit is in lane. Of course, I could also be wrong, I just liked the idea of discussing and giving my thoughts :) curious whether you agree or disagree.
I completely get you, Renata's kit is so complete that at the same time she is average in general. Want survivability? Take Nami or Soraka. Want hard cc? Take Maokai or Morgana. Need peel? Take Yummi. Also, something very painful about her kit is that Renata's Q is short, slow, and even has a noticeable casting time, forcing her to walk dangerously close to an enemy in order to land her hook. This is very inconsistent since in order to land an impactful E she has to be at the back...
I think of handshake as a skillshot root like lux and Morgana rather than a hook personally, it's very rare for me to actually drag people towards me. She is definitely up there as one of my favorite supports, I disagree with ebb and flow being better by default because anti heal is more common than shield breaking, it's also just a very satisfying skill to hit.
Ebb and Flow is better in the neutral game, as a poke tool and is more consistently effective. Loyalty Program has a higher ceiling but is way harder to execute that ceiling
4:58 "If she knocks them towards enemy champion, that enemy champion i stunned for half a second. This makes handshake the only hook in the game that can crowd two enemies per cast". My man have previously streamed renekton top vs swain top and you were kept getting rooted by swain's e on minions as returning e explodes in aoe so he can pull any champion that stood near minions (or other champions). This comment is not meant to insult your intellect or anything like that but to give you a tip for future matchup against swain top, i love your content btw
ngl the most creative supports always get shafted. For instance, I really liked Rell before the rework as her E was DUMMY good allowing for a 5 person stun, but now her kit feels soulless from the lack of a better word
I don't fully agree with your last point. Having to play behind the adc maximise value from E shouldn't be a problem if the rest of her kit made up for it. Seraphine has enough range and utility to make it work, and so does Senna (Nami too, to a lesser extent) Lulu can still use Q from allies because of pixie. Renata is just in an awkward spot where each of her abilities demand a different position (closer range for Q and R due to range/speed of travel, close/mid range for passive procs, long range for E). I love her aesthetics, and her abilities mesh very well thematically, they just have no synergy ingame
This is the crux of my issues with her. I love playing her and she’s my main but this so strongly is felt every time I play her. If her e and q either were longer range, not multifaceted aoes, or were lingering effects rather than skill shots, that would fix so much of her issues imo, as would giving her passive auto increased range. I don’t even mind her moves being slow or slowed down, requiring more set up, but they should at least have better positional synergy and match her intended thematic appeal more
his point about E is just plain wrong. the projectile goes around renata before going forward, so being next to the adc also shield them and you don't need to stay behind them
I must say that i really enjoy your in-depth explanations and comparisons of abilities. As a beginner its much easier to see the differences and why an ability that sounds broken actually isnt. Thanks for making these videos. Keep it up Vars!!!^^
I think Renata has the potential to be a really cool champ, both Design and her abilities in theory are amazing. But as you said her abilities are just too bad. In my personal opinion making her ultimate either travel faster or at least speed up like maokais would be super nice so you actually can make plays with it without hoping through 7 million extra hoops
I genuinely think no one plays her because she's probably the most difficult enchanter, she mixes both engage and disengage, she's useful for TFs and pick ups, and most support players are not skilled enough to use her properly, and so they stick to the Yuumi, Sona and Soraka *bash the keybord with your head and insta win* gameplay
Vars saying that most ADCs run away when in the face of danger is disproven when the average Vayne or Draven would flash into the entire enemy team when the support is not looking.
I tried her and realized that her ultimate post-nerf is basically pointless. I hit a Vayne with it directly whom had stacked attack speed and she was in the middle of an auto on me when it triggered, the switched targets, shot one other person ONCE, then was out of the berserk. None of the others hit did anything significant. The ultimate feels SO BAD. Even in the ideal scenario of hitting a glass cannon attack speed Vayne, it did 200 damage to a half-health bruiser who didn't care. Dude, rank 1 ultimate only berserks for *1.25 seconds* without tenacity even applying! If a champion has just used a auto-attack, it's most likely to literally do nothing!
The ending completely encapsulates the problem. She shines in coordinated play but in soloq, your w almost never gets the value it should and she's too nerfed to succeed without it.
I wish I could make work a Rammus Renata bot game where the enemies are zoned from the minion wave, so when Renata casts the R, the enemy starts auto attacking Rammus at double speed XD
Renata is also hindered by perception bias: Your enemies "always" know the best way to shut you down, but your allies "always" never know how to play around you. She is a skill-check champion in soloqueue, and for an enchanter that makes her awful
I’ve played a lot of support over the years. The number of times allies dodge my janna ultis, juke my redemptions, and run the wrong way when I zilean e them is simply depressing. Renara w… my allies almost never know that it’s on them, and let it go to waste because of it. There’s a sound effect, and a visual that shouldn’t be easy to miss, but somehow people always do miss it
to add to this, ALL her abilities have long cool-downs. Her hook is very hard to land (low range, low travel speed, low hit-box). Even though you get more value by staying behind your ADC for shields, you equally LOOSE value for not trading your HP during a fight AND she tends to have lower range then most ADCs, so by standing behind, you can't contribute with damage or CC, if 2 players can focus your ADC then it's a loos fight (basically her E is useful in team-fights with front-liners, not in 2v2 with ADC). She was popular for her ultimate alone, but then they gutted that ability and now it just feels so weak, it's almost not an ultimate ability. And not to mention that if it touches any wind-shield, it COMPLETELY disappears, not only part of it, ALL of it. She also feels like she scale less then most enchanters, and at the same time, she has worse early-game and lane-presence. She feels like a much worse version of Sona for me, as week as her early, still weaker mid and late-game.
I'm new player in LoL and I did choose Renata as my main champ for two big reasons. First reason is, she is on the bottom on playrate across all ranks _(thats mean 0% chance to ban= no dodging requirement)_ - best msg from other player to me was "Hi! You are first Renata in my last 500 games!" 🤣 Second reason, she is "true" support hero - thats mean, she no need to items to be effective and she rely heavily on other people _(definition of support role)_ . Another reasons are: probably best kit - all her spells you can use for offense or deffense and they are independent on themselfs _(for example she is not like Blitz, when he miss the hook, he became for next 15 sec walking training dummy waiting for CD)_ and her spell resolves give you and team great feeling. 😀 I tried multiple support heroes, but with Renata only I m getting almost every match "S" rating in the end and on my road from Iron4 I have 55% win rate _(now Im in Bronze3)_ . I'm curious where is my top rank, with 0-2 games/day it will be long trip. 🙃
I think what makes her frustrating is actually the last part…like you have a renata on your team that W you and you keep running instead of trying to kill and take back your life! Also I think her abilities are slow and easy to dodge…but I do really love to play her…I hope they give her some buffs 🥺🙏
Honestly unlike other proplay champions like Kalista, Azir, etc. Renata is very easy to understand and play but the fact that YOU understend her dosen't mean that EVERYONE do.
I wouldn't say Renata's hook is "the only hook in the game that can crowd control 2 enemies at once" as Swain's hook can hook multiple enemies in a single cast as well
I think they should double down on her passive. Have it interact with her kit more, I think it would make her much more enjoyable. I think about 99% of players don't even know what her passive does, and it's the most fun part of her kit.
renata is one of those supports that is incredibly fun to play in ARAM, and i always find her super useful there, but i genuinely can't imagine picking her in normal games and especially not with randoms
Since we are at the time of the world championship, think will be a good video to talk about champions that are balance around pro play, the so call pro jail champions, that even they win a pick rate are relativity low they cant give them a buff because if they do they spiral out off control in pro play.
I really enjoy Renata but I always found one of the main issues with her ult was that it didn't have enough potential. Best case scenario you hit a Kog or Twitch and they shred the enemy team, though that's rarely the case. The thing with ults like Sona or Seraphine is you want to be able to combo off with your teammates, but if Renata ults the enemy and your team uses any following cc then the point of Renata's ult is wasted because the enemy won't be attacking themselves anymore.
The main reason I stopped playing her is that her cooldowns in lane are way too long and not impactful enough to justify it. I genuinely feel like the most impactful thing I can do in laning phase is proc my passive and that really shits on any satisfaction I could get from playing her.
Great summary, I can only add one thing: Renata's ult with no hostiles nearby has a fairly high value for finishing ioslated targets. If the enemy is highly mobile while your lane is not and they continue to get away at low health, you can use it to pull then back in, Most people, when given the choice at low health between eating more damage and dodging renata ult or tanking the ult that does no damage, they will choose the latter. In those cases, the ult acts like a 1.25 second charm.
playing renata without your adc being your premade is an actual nightmare i've played with defrosted cabbages that have more sentience than my random adc's
Thresh hook cant drag people over walls but thresh flay can pull champs over small walls like the one on bot blue side that runs along river across from the dragon pit.
As a Renata main my only issue with her is her q being not much as a threat as it could be in lane and yes it’s fun to slam enemies together or a minion into an enemy for a stun but she’s basically a shield spam champion and she relies on her team to carry for her and if they misuse her sion revive mechanic than you’re team is as good as dead. But her strongest attribute in my opinion is her ult if used correctly since it’s always fun making the fed enemy yi just kill his entire team along with the hyper carry aswell and just getting a penta off of that
Next video will be Milio, his also with a low playrate, but I think it's just the nerfs that really gutted him, not problems in his kit like Miss Glasc
Renata tank is still good, just bait enemy to surround you and jump on top of you, sustain it, throw ult, and with your big damage allies hidden in bush they will destroy their team.
What i hate about renata is the seeming necessity that my adc has literally no idea what my w does so i gotta spell it out for them, even if i tell them "it makes you unkillable" (overexaggeration to make them actually go in) they STILL run away
There is a way to make her playable again: - Her Passive: All skills apply her passive, her Ult double the damage of the mark - Q: make it longer like Blitz's and the second cast also deals damage - W: last longer if your allies is below 50% health - E: fly faster and further - Ultimate: moving faster like Nami's ult, if there is no enemy nearby, they will hurt themself
Great video. The only thing I disagree with is when you said that she has the only hook ability which has the potential to CC two people, as we also have Swain and Darius E which can in theory CC 5 people.
I believe if they provide renata a passive mechanic where she can evolve her abilities like Viktor she will be way more effective like: Evolved Q at lvl 10: Provide a root tether similar to Karma E and also makes you hook someone to a longer distance. Evolved W: Extend the duration and more passive stats Evolved E: Wider projectile and more stats Evolved Ult: Extend the duration That's would be way better to give the player an agency on how to play her.
Q - Slow skillshot, hard to hit, smal cc duration. W - Hard to kill opponents in a small amount of time to be revived E - Inexistent shield, no poke/damage (you cant help W resurrection since you have no damage to help killing the enemy) R .Probably the only worth ability of her kit, but VERY small duration
I enjoy playing renata like a ranged tank. I build her like thresh, sometimes i even go bork for more % damage. She's one of thos characters like shaco or kat where you can build a lot of weird ways to fit many situations. My favorite is going evenshroud into anathema's chains. Make the entire enemy team vulnerable to more damage, make the cc last longer on the enemy adc, murder everyone :P
I don’t play league (but do enjoy following it) so take this with a grain of salt but I think she might do well with a melee carry in the botlane. Like her E and W seem designed for those who want go in rather than hang back or maybe something weird like pyke renata botlane
Check out the new Honkai: Star Rail 1.4 patch and the console update here! hoyo.link/86ceFkEL #AD And also be sure to check out Vars II for Honkai: Star Rail Content :D
bad design= no one wants to play it if its not broken
I was so dumb that I thought this was a Vars II video
HSR content💀
so you're supporting gambling?
Something to tell you why everyone play ZERI
Her skillshots move at the speed of a slightly panicked sloth
fr frr
preach!
And has a cd just as slow
Not incorrect
E is the slow and R is the slowst
Renatas issue that she constantly makes you feel like you were THIS CLOSE to a huge play, but almost never grants you the satisfaction of actually getting there.
That sounds like the drugs she peddles in lore, lol.
Truee. Ult has soo much potential but it just fails by a few inches. If it was longer or it dealt damage on its own it could be better
@skojuzija even low damage would open options, liandry ult with anti healing so they kill each other faster 😭
She was given so much play potential that they had to gimp everything to uselessness for her to be balanced.
I agree with everything said by vars and other players. That said I do tend to play renata semi often, and I’m not a particularly good player and my win rate is at 70%. The champion hasn’t really disappointed me other than it’s a bit boring to play her
Playing her always feels like you're always in quicksand and her abilities have a speed limit of a leasurely stroll.
She feels like a Tank stuck in an Enchantress' role. Overall very awkward.
I will not lie, I made an active attempt to make Renata top work as a weakside enchanter support because the character looks sick. Never worked out lol
Yeah no shit
Gigachad league player picks champions based on how cool they look and makes them work in the gigachad lane(top)
Jesus judt do Renata adc, her %health actually works well with the right items, can 3 shot a malphite.
You need someone with you otherwise your damge falls off.
support top can work for certain champs. Nautilus top has some crazy dueling potential in the early game, and by the time your damage starts falling off you'll have enough items to be an unkillable tank applying cc in team fights without a care.
Trolling hard af
It's Miss Glasc!
If you value your life.
😢🎉🎉🎉🎉
GlASSc
Step aside, worm!
if you’re nasty
i think its because all her abilities but E are all reactive/situational which makes her fun foe 5% of the game and an E spam forbthe remaining 95%
Not to mention her E doesn't even feel good.
Her ap ratios are truly ass to make those abilities feel impactful, you Q as karma and watch the enemy lose half their hp bar but E as Renata and you tickle them
She does have a fair bit of agency vs weaker matchups because of her q and poke if you go cheap shot and shield bash. She's basically a budget hook champ that then thrives in the all in battle that ensues after the hook.
She's still broken, it's just most of the player base is bad.
@@wooaahh23 it’s not even that she’s inherently bad, it’s that she’s feels awful to play. Her W and R make her strong by themselves, but maybe Riot should consider taking some power away from those abilities to make a well rounded champion who actually has a player base.
I remember when she came out and everyone was talking about how broken she was going to be and my first thought was just, "literally none of her abilities have any synergy. It's like they took four completely separate abilities designed for completely separate champions and just welded them together and hoped it worked."
You could say that about a lot of enchanter supports, though. Where's the synergy in Lulu's kit, or Janna's, or Nami's? At least with Renata's kit you could Q two enemies together, E to slow them both and R to berserk them while they can't get out of the way for a pretty simple combo. You're probably never going to actually pull that off in a real game, what with all the blinks/dashes the enemies have to avoid your ult, but it's technically possible.
@@kevingriffith6011Nani’s kit has no synergy?
@@KuroKamii94 Hmm, I dunno. Yeah, you can bubble into ult or ult into bubble, and your passive procs off of all your spells, but none of her abilities really get any better because of any of her other abilities from what I'm seeing. Nothing like Soraka's Q giving her the health she needs to donate with her own healing ability, or Blitzcrank/Leona hook setting them up for a stun.
I guess it depends on what you specifically define as synergy, too.
@@kevingriffith6011 Idk i kinda think most enchanters kits feel pretty synergistic. everything in janna's kit is defensively minded and is built around keeping people from jumping on you or your team. Lulu's EQ is like the definition of synergy, and her W and E being able to be cast on allies and enemies to do different things kind of ties them together. Her ult kinda stands out on its own, but its an ult so I think thats fine. Soraka's synergy is pretty obvious and her only standout really being E, but its a pretty unique ability and benefits from Q slow. I would say Renata does kinda generally not synergize with herself too well, since she is a unique enchanter/catcher hybrid sorta similar to Nami. I think Nami does it a little better because she is just less situational, but their kits provide somewhat similar things (cc on Q, damage + heal/shield ability, buff button, and long range CC super ultimate).
I wouldn't really say that makes Renata like not cohesive in any way though. She still feels like a complete champion, she just tends to only really shine when her team knows how to play with her and in the situations where her tools are incredibly effective. She is like a more niche Nami in practice IMO. Higher highs, but lower lows.
That's my biggest issue with her too. You don't really have a follow-up to any of her abilities. Isolated an enemy with Q? Great, now you can't do anything, especially since E and R are supposed to be used on crowds. Buffed your ally with W? I guess you could also shield them, but the shield amount is miniscule.
I feel like she isn't good at anything.
as a renata main this makes me so sad because i know its true - i feel so punished for playing my favourite champ because she requires 10x more effort to get the same amount of output as a soraka or lulu just mashing W (if not less)
well honestly i think renata is the only enchanter that actually takes any braincells. I say this as a taric player.
I promised myself to boost Renata's winrate that every time i am gonna get hit by her ult ill pop everything to boost me.
Ghost? Now on cooldown, Steroid Ult? Using it, Any form of AA enhancer? I will get the +12 from my ally. Tenacity? Now i am alergic to it.
i feel you, but when you get ahead she is just toxic lmao, i love this
@@YanYanicantbelievethistakenffsrespectable move.
Renata suffers from overbalancing.
Her kit would be broken in theory but they nerfed everything to the max which Is why She suffers
Her abilities barely have any synergy.
She needs a full rework
One of the best ways riot can make her more satisfying is tweak her cooldowns and her mana costs. Her Q, W, and E all cost 80 mana at rank one and each have over a 10 second cooldown which is ridiculous considering how hard they are to land and get right
It's because her passive, THAT passive It's unironically the best support passive in the whole game
@@fabioviti7384 they can nerf her passive and allocate the power to the rest of her kit
Unfortunately with how much she's used in pro play it's really hard to make any changes on her to make her feel better and do better without making her broke in pro play. I think riot just needs to rework this one.
I love Renata's design and lore, and her kit. But the biggest issue I think is her kit is too slow, especially her E. Unless I'm mistaken her E is the primary poke best used when your adc is nearby. The problem is its slow as molasses and has a VERY short range, on top of dealing VERY little damage making it easy to ignore.
I do think Renata needs a buff to put her in line with other enchanters. If they want to keep her damage lower, then her Q and E need projectile speed increases, and her E needs way more range. But if reversely, shede need more damage if they keep the range and speed the same.
Her bailout is fine as is imo. And her ult I think only needs a slight speed increase.
For her ult, it would either be faster projectile speed or a little bit larger width. Her E should have a quicker projectile speed, but her Q needs to be a little bit wider. Other than that, everything else feels perfect.
Honestly, the changes i would make for her is to increase the projectile speed of her q, e and ult, increase the range of her e, make the width of her ult a bit wider like you said, and of she puts w on you, there's either a voice line or some type of more of effect on screen that basically tells you to get yo ass back in the damn fight
and all of cooldowns are too high. all of them 15 secs+ until 18 lvl they re still high, 10+ sec cooldown and her kits speed is too slow, movement slow af. its hurt team in end game. she become useless in middle game
@@duderpeace Honestly, kinda forgot about how long her cool downs are. The cool down on w makes sense because of the impact it can have though
I think it’s so dumb that her ult can be cleansed or gone by tenacity and it is so useless early anyway so it shouldn’t have less berserk time in early r point levels (also slow as hell you need flash to make it work a bit)
She's the Ivern of Support lane. A weird mix of roles, and rare enough that few in soloqueue can coordinate with her but not so rare Riot will do anything about it.
She will get a midscope update at some point
as someone who plays renata as their main support, i feel like there's an important point to be made for her: proactivity. as you mentioned, renata has playmaking capabilities, which is what personally make me prefer her over other enchanters. it gives me the feeling that, when things go wrong, i at least had a part in it due to wrong spell usage. this of course does not help her solo q factor at all, but it is the reason why i will pick her over any other enchanter any day of the week.
Man for soloq just pick lux and spam ur spells. Always works XD most braindead strat that actually works in soloq XD
Renatas ability to be proactive compared to other meta picks is severely lacking though, nami is better on that front, and rakan is probably the best for it atm if you're looking at enchanteresque. Rell obviously being the premier pick for proactive gameplay from support rn.
Can definitely confirm. the games where I do really well are the ones where I stare down the map and run at the enemy jungle and start a fiesta around first scuttle.
then shove bot recall roam. freeze bot wait for gank -> shove roam -> repeat. The worst you can do is stay in lane forever. you get outpoked by mage supports and lose trades vs tank engages.
play making is definitely a strength of her. That said - she plays more like a fiddle sticks punishing poor vision control and positional mistakes / greedy engages. rather than an enchanter support. And I don't think anyone is better at that than her.
but She is a shitty laner. she has strong lvl 1->5. But lvl 6 her ult just doesn't cut it and that si simply because it is exponentially anti-snyergistic with the flow of battle. Not only is the duration shorter: it's on an insanely long cooldown and people don't even have their mythic yet which means auto attack damage isn't there yet. So at best its an aoe stun with no damage :(
what you can do however and that makes her really great vs tank supports: build tank and harass enemy adc from range. short trading E -> auto shield bash with them is guaranteed to come out in your favour. and if enemy tank engages you -> you can peel with Q and your adc can go ham on them. which is why I think she's great pre lvl 6. Why early roaming is probably a wincon for her.
however in the lategame Renata just absolutely loves a good samira / yone / yi / yasuo / twitch. It should be obvious why. But the value she brings for them is insane. They literately want everything her kit has to offer.
@@Morningstar787I shit on Lux with renata tho
I really like playing her because of her personality and super ultimate. I find it is more effective to cast it behind walls so enemies cant see it coming.
i think if you cast it behind anything it will not even reach XD
You really need flash to make it work the fullest
@@koiboi3851 no. playing fog of war is what makes a good renata vs bad renata. also dont use it to engage, wait for them to come to you
yea but that's it. If you read the situation wrong you fuck your team, basically.
One of my favorite ways to use it is by ulting as counter engage. Renata has to stand behind her team so counterengaging with R is pretty simple, it's similar to Xayah R really. Yeah it's slow but if enemies are coming towards you they can't escape.
I'm not a renata player just a casual enjoyer so yeah that's just how I do it. Fog of war plays are pretty sick too
@@tainadeoliveira Yep, counter engage is its most useful use!
It's a shame that Renata is weak/unplayable. Along with Senna, she is the most interesting female support character owing to her Chembaron fantasy and weird playstyle. She exudes so much character, yet despite her abilities coming off as creative beCAUSE of the obtuse conditions applied to her, said obtuse conditions end up making her too difficult to play correctly, which is why her pickrate hovers around 0.1% and her banrate even lower.
Also the fact that the adc has to be able to make the best use of her abilities, which sadly most don’t.
I'd say it's the other way around. They dropped the ball with her fantasy. I feel like Renata's design is a mess both visually and thematically.
To start, she is supposed to be an egotistical "drug lord" commander type, with a similar energy as Swain. While both of them are just "old humans", Swain walks with purpose, has a big black cape covering his demonic arm and has an overall interesting silhouette, all skills are "raven" themed with red and black contrast and all come from his same arm.
Renata on the other hand, has a boring, emotionless walking animation, her skill cast animations are also almost non-existent, and the color scheme does not convey any sort of alchemical "poison", "gas" or "steroid" other than her R, they are pink and blue (???). Her skills have little to no sound feedback either, other than R. I didn't forget the weird floating bot or whatever that is, that casts half her skills - but that's how it feels, almost like it isn't there, completely irrelevant to the champions visual and gameplay identity. Orianna's ball has more personality than that thing.
And from a gameplay perspective, it also seems like the devs spent all their creativity in the W and R and forgot about the rest of the kit. P, Q and E are so uninteresting, unoriginal that they could fit (and they do) in any other champion. W and R on the other hand represent her actual "identity" as a support with dangerous potential to turn a good engagement from your team into a bad one, through the power of drugs and betrayal. The 5 skills really don't fit together very well, thematically.
Going back to Orianna's ball, since they gave Renata a bot that casts skills and her identity is to put others in front to die for her, why not also copy the ball's mechanics:
Renata can use W to attach her bot to an allied champion (no ground targeting like Ori. Include minions maybe?). She can then reactivate W on the same champ to make it defy death or on another champion to swap the bot around. Skills are cast from the bot, not from Renata.
That way, she will thematically fit better as a "commander" type champ that likes to sit on the back watching other do her bidding while she controls the battlefield from afar. This also improves her Q and E design's of being too reliant on best case scenario positioning compared to other similar skills.
@@voidgods I guess you don't really understand Renata's character if you think she's supposed to be an egoist. Renata's far from being egoistic, she's a good person with PTSD after losing her parents due to Piltover's corporation's attack on their lab and now she wants vengeance and she's willing to do anything to achieve her goal. After losing her parents she's decided that doing people a favour all the time by helping them for free will only create situations when she's gonna be used by other people. Her walking animation is supposed to be emotionless, confident and disrespectful. Just because in your mind an "alchemist" archetype is supposed to use poisons, it doesn't mean that Renata is supposed to use them. She's an owner of a renowned pharmaceutical company, so that makes sense that she's using something more refined and elegant than just straight up toxins (like Singed).
@@voidgods The color scheme makes sense if you watched arcane. Shimmer (the drug) is pink/purple-ish, so her chemical being in that color scheme (even though it isn't stated that she is using shimmer) adds up.
@@voidgods Of course she's bad at being "the alchemist" or "the drug lord" or "the commander", it's not her character. Her character is "the ruthless CEO" willing to go far to gather power and willing to use that power to go far.
She uses chemicals because she's from Zaun, and in Zaun power takes the form of chemicals. It could have been anything else if she came from elsewhere, but her character only makes sense from Zaun.
She's not a commander : she's never been at a war that wasn't corporate, she doesn't value loyalty and has no ideal for others to rally around. She's not after physical might and deadliness : she values money, influence and connections.
Attaching her bot to an ally ? Why the hell would she do that ? It is HERS, for her security and convenience as the VIP, because in the end she is a civilian in the middle of a battle. And there is no way she'd lend it to some disposable pawn/peasant. This is not comparable to Orianna moving her ball to an ally, but more like asking Ezreal to give his gauntlet to someone more competent
I really enjoy Mz Glass and hope her kit doesn’t get an overhaul because of her pick rate. She’s very fun to play and also because nobody plays her so more often than not the other team doesn’t know what to do with her. Also, landing her ult during a team fight is one of the most satisfying things ever.
Yeah, most people actually just don't know how to use the champion, and don't try to: they think she's a Nami with a funky hook.
yea shes really powerful in the right hands. build all active items and then u can protect anyone and everyone @@felipecouto1102
She doesn't need a rework. All she needs is a 15-20% movement speed increase on her abilities :D
Literally my favorite enchanter support. So badass.
Renata can be very infuriating to play, but when you do manage to pull of a big win revive or ultimate it feels sooo good.
As a main:
-Her skillshots are very slow, specially E and R. Sometimes you miss shields just because they are slower than most teammates with tier 2 boots.
-She is more reactive and defensive, her offense usually sucks but she can be great with a well placed Q vs engages to disengage.
-Her ultimate can be detrimental. If there is only one enemy champ alone it's an attack speed buff for them to kill you and your partner so don't use it. You now have 3 skills on your kit.
-Ultimate is very very slow, to the point that you need to use flash on a buffered ult to surprise people. Sometimes it's amazing sometimes is non impactful. Maokai's Ult at least speeds up and does damage. It is also very unclear how much effects you can apply with it, like imperial mandate on enemies, or using your ardent censer and waterflow buffs on them for faster DPS.
-Her W is fantastic but most teamates don't have visual clarity or don't understand it.They think it's a second chance or a Zilean ult and they flee the fight instead of trying a second all in to revive.
This also ties into Shurelya being her only good mythic.
-Passive was actually pretty strong with a teammate and got nerfed immediately after release.
I think she is great in gameplay concept but she feels super clunky sometimes, added to her gameplan promoting passivity and reactiveness she can feel terrible and even boring in some games or amazing when you pull it off.
I agree with you, especially with the R part
More reactive and defensive, I think that is like playing shaco AP - where you need to wait for people to attack you.
I think we need somewhat another initiator in a team with Renata to make her better in CC and abilities to work
I'm pretty sure her E has a small AOE around her at launch which allow you to shield your allies, if you are standing next to them, and not behind them (as long as you're close enough)
That is the point to make
But goddamn stacking is so bad, don't do that in a middle of a fight for a little shield
It was more about the laning phase (mentioned at 14:01 ) because Renata doesn't have to stand behind ADC to shield. Now that I'm thinking about it, it's probably even possible to shield your ADC behind you.
@@PurpleNut Yeah, I got it the first time. The problem with the little AOE around her... It's little. Like you need to huddle together.
@@chargoal_games Should just work like Yasuo windwall, that spawns a few dozen (45?) units behind Yasuo and travels forward over its duration.
This means Yas can theoretically block a skillshot from BEHIND himself with the wall if he casts it in the opposite direction; likewise it would allow Glasc to shield behind herself at whatever the hitbox of the missile is. Or just a simple 300 unit pulse on cast similar to its collision aoe
@@Nazuiko I mean, it makes sense as the bot is shooting the missiles
I would never abandon Mother.
Literally mother af
Renata became one of my favorite champs during the arena mode. She was hard to catch or kill outright and worked with a lot of the augments. On summoners rift it feels like you're in spectator mode 75% of the time. Mostly I think because her q doesn't get any cooldown with levels so you're forced to max e.
I never thought about her design this way. I've been playing her since release and hit Emerald with her. Honestly, I like her kit and there are ways to manipulate around some of the issues but its definitely more effort then should be required when you could play a different champ and get potentially better results and have an easier time doing it.
I have a large history of playing champions that people hate or don't play. I really love champions like Shaco, Rammus, Nunu, Ivern, Renata, Zilean, etc...
Renata is one the 3 champions that I played since minute 1 of release: Pyke, Ivern and Renata and I play her a lot nowadays. Top 3 most used supports for me right now are Janna, Renata and Zil
I agreed - we usually play Renata, Zilean, Senna, Rakan, Sona...but I guess a good thing about Renata and Zil's low pick-rate is no one knows how to play against them
We once had a trAshe (crap Ashe adc) so we played Senna, aced it, got a penta and dominated. If you want damage play Senna, Sona or Pyke. If you want cc play Rakan or Zilean. If you want one not known for damage but the truest support of them all without being boring or braindead like Yuumi, play Renata
This is why we need more bans
love Shaco, Rammus, Nunu, Ivern and now loving Renata, guess we are the same ;)
The worst feeling as an adc when playing with renata is when you fall outside the specific use of her W. If you kill BEFORE you die, you still die. If you die just when the buff expires you still die. Even if thats what the buff encouraged you to do, you are still punished for using it.
As a renata main myself, if u die after the w runs out its usually the Renata's fault. Shpuld always be able to time the w with death unless something very niche happens.
@csababobalo8692 if you kill before death, then you enter zombie, and oh wait there's no one else to kill or there's no way to kill another person in 2 seconds and you still die.
@csababobalo8692 they mean if you kill the enemies, then die to their ignite or the auto they launched before death... then you enter into the 3 second pre-death state and die because you already killed all avaliable enemies.
Which punishes you for using the skill how it was intended, to dive in and knife fight to the death, and worse, you are punished _for succeeding_ too well.
@@Wuuj_ the skill has a huge AS buff. Not using your W in case your allies ever get in the blink of death is also keeping them from dealing as much damage as they could've if you used it sooner. Sure it was "her fault" since the adc would be alive had she held it a while longer, but the enemy might not have even died had she not used it the moment she did. The skill is designed in a way that makes you feel like you did something wrong regardless of the choices you make or the overall outcome unless it all goes absolutely in your favor...
Remember when people thought renata was gonna be broken?
Yeah. Me too. Knew she was niche
How to fix her: make her Q root/stun slightly longer, make it do if you push a enemy into a wall it stuns them (one of these changes would suffice. I prefer the wall one)
Make her W cooldown shorter but make it’s cool down be much longer if the revive triggers (to its current cooldown)
Make her E get better as it hits multiple targets (Kinda like sera ult does)
Her ult is fine.
They advertised her as a 'dark enchanter' and instead you get: A hook, insanely useless revive steroid on a 25sec cd, a shield that requires the moon/stars to line up with trash ap ratio, an ult slower than me graduating college that lasts for not even an entire second while giving NO boosts to your allies. A passive that means you have to stay up close in a fight to get any value from it- AUTOS ON AN ENCHANTER LEL
I was so pissed when i saw her kit after following all the teasers and hints :(
@@skylerfreeman1173 enchanters have felt meh for awhile now. The archetype needs some help.
@@fadeddragon123 enchanters are really strong for the longest time, idk what you mean.
@@DoopIiss haven’t been able to make sona or karma work in years now.
Have her Q stun on towers is more fair than the walls. At least then the opposing 1v1 or 2v1 can have some counterplay
I think Renata's resurrection ability would work better if it taunted your dead ally to the nearest enemy. For solo q at least
yes and no, it would be a hindrance most of the time ngl. sure you're guaranteed to hit an enemy and therefor might resurrect but it's also just as likely to pick one that isnt feasible to kill in time and therefor just being an annoyance. could possibly do it so it targeted the lowest hp one or something but that also brings the issue of "is the lowest hp one the best one to pick off?" you could be in a situation where the higher hp one is still killable and way more of a threat and instead of taking care of that you've just been forced to remove a essentially non-issue champ
also, a taunt would remove the ability to use anything but autos, which sure most ADCs can deal with however there are non adcs in your team aswell and even adcs sometimes need to use abilities.
If it jsut punt you in auto attack stake vs lowest hero in range that might be good. And it would only be a simple attack command wich can easily be overwritten
You misunderstand Renata's Baillout.
You see it as a "buff" ability type, when in reality it is a "save" ability type. Its a Zilean ult with a buff and a condition attatched.
The thing is that she has so much more untapped potential that you didn't even mention, which makes her incredibly hard to balance without nerfing her. First and foremost her E can shield so many people, including people RIGHT next to her, which means that she doesn't necessarily have to aim her skill shot as long as her allies are in the range of the halo around her. And this multi shield can apply a pletora of passive items effect, such as Surelya or SoFW. This gives her a stupid amount of versatility and adaptative building. And she is also an incredibly powerful situationnal counter pick ! The ennemy support is a tank ? How nice ! You have a shield that you don't need to aim that will also slow the engage support, because they are in your adc's face your passive is stupidely easy to proc and effective because of the %HP dmg, and your Q is going to be the best "go of my adc" tool ever and can easily stop their engage before they even reach your adc and do anything to them. The ennemy team is full of AD carries with lots of attack speed who love to go in ? Do they have ONE Master Yi ? Well guess which ult is design to DESTROY those champions ? She might be a 40-140 in al lot of cases, but she can easily become a 90-170 when she's counter picking. Plus the natural potential of all her abilities that you already talked about. Give her the correct ennemy team comp and like one teamates with lots of attack speed and she's just straight up carrying !
You summarized it really well. "Conditional" I really enjoy Renata but all of her abilities just...feel so bad at times and "ok" at their peek.
Q is really cool on paper but it has short range and comes out slowly on an extremely immobile champ.
You never really feel like using W for it's buffs because you rather save it for a revive cause of the CD. But then thats if whoever you're reviving not only gets a kill but actually even remembers how her W works and doesn't just run away.
Her R is just straight up gutted depending on the enemy. Did you stomp your lane? Well hurray your R won't have crazy value because you're so ahead. Or the enemy just doesn't pick strong auto attackers so it feels mediocre.
And her builds just feel awkward. You only really pick battlesong for the active. Her E makes her stand still and is a skillshot so its not like you're gonna be pumping in speed.
Some people run radiance/tanky which is cool? But it doesn't really pan out that well.
I feel like if they do anything i would like it if Q and E were able to be cast while moving.
I HATE how true the W part is, i W my 5/0 kaisa in lane and she just Runs away from the enemy and its so frustrating cause the cd is so long that means i wasted a huge cd on someone who doesnt know how to use it
Build solari. Shurelya is only decent in proplay (sometimes) because tempo is everything but solari gives much better stats and a better active
And radiant is low value cause of the long r cd
EVERYTHING in her kit is slow moving. The only thing with decent enough speed is her e and even that is just "ok". And my lord that passive feels so useless
1000000000%
also the fact that one of her main points on her ultimate when she was teased was her stealing baron and dragon. but that never works out because
1. the ult slow af
2. the enemy has smite
its very rare for her ult to steal drag or baron
As a Renata main, last month I played with an Ashe that procced EVERY SINGLE ONE of my passive marks early game. I will never forget you!!!
I agree with everything here a lot!
I think her design, theme and game play are very fun, but it takes one too many stars to align in solo queue for things to work out well with her.
I'm not sure what they can do since she almost has the Morgana problem, where her one of her spells is too strong (at least potentially) to allow for other areas to be stronger and more consistent.
Only once I played into a GM Renata main and I must say - she has so much potential I was stunned by how good he was. He singlehandedly destroyed the entire lobby. Insane.
Very happy about this WNOP. I knew she would be on the to do list. She's so interesting as a champion but i prefer playing her in Aram than summoner's rift. I was so surprised they gave her a prestige skin.
I'll still of the opinion that if they removed the revive from her W, they could buff the rest of her kit to give her more power at baseline, thus improving her general use. The revive is holding her back, get rid of it and she could be stronger and less restrictive.
As a Renata main im really glad you made this video, to me she's a perfectly designed support and way too underrated.
It's funny I've been playing tons of Renata for about a month now then this vid comes out, I looove her kit. I am far from pro or anything but I cannot recommend these things enough if any of you want to try her out:
- Hold your R, when you think it's gunna be decent don't use it. When it looks great THEN use it, this spell REALLY needs time to learn.
- W is a great catching tool, don't use it for the revive only, It's a great stim to AS and movement speed towards enemies so see it as a potential rundown tool to give to your carry.
- Consider Mandate 1st item, then I have been building Crown of the Shattered Queen 2nd and it's been working well for me so give that a try.
- Whenever applicable try to Q someone THEN E them to slow them while their in the bad spot u put them in with the Q. If not then E to slow and make the Q easier to land.
- Finally if an objective like drake or Baron are coming up, save your R and focus on getting in a good position to hit as many as possible, even the threat of your R can cause panic. Gl hf!
Played some Renata when it came out. Her ult always seemed good, but has that same problem what Maokai got after he received his current R. It was way too slow and you was able to walk it out. Same goes for Renata if you don't cast it from standing in the enemy's face or out of vision, there is simply way too much mobility in the game to dodge it. Enemies start to hit each other sound cool, but only usefull when you hit the adc, Yas, Yone Irelia, or Belveth. Hitting enemies like enemy Control mage support doesn't bring any value for the berserk part. That extra 150 dmg what they will deal from 2 auto attack won't change the outcome of the fight, and as current things stands adc will take cleanse the ult becomes basically useless.
Agree with what you said about Q and E. I would add that you can use W to boost your adc's dmg if you play on a lane where there is no threath of dieing in 2v2 and you saw enemy jg on the other isde of the map.
I wish renata were more popular.
I love playing Aatrox, Vi, Xin Zhao with attack speed, and popping ghost or powering up my autos before the ult hits me to kick the ass of my friends.
There are few mistakes you made in my opinion
Q is a strong peel ability. If used correctly, you can prevent engages in laning phase against engage supports, you can prevent ganks, interrupt dashes and peel better then other hooks in any other scenario. Also, it allows you to setup your other spells or in reverse, other spells can help you to land Q. I think at worst Renata's Q can be a little bit (just a little) then the others, but having so many use cases - it's one of the best hooks
W should not be compared like other buff spells. It's really different in practice compared to other buffing skills. For example, with Lulu or other champions that buff allies, they usually buff only they adc, but with Renata there is so much value gained by buffing anyone. Divers, assassins, even yourself. You can save a key member of your team with one W. And I found that the attack speed and move speed buffs are just to help get a kill to revive yourself. Basically what I'm trying to say is that the stat buff does not matter that much. Additionally in the mid/late game w cooldown goes to 10-15s, compared to other buff spells 5-10s. With this much value in a single skill on 10-15s cooldown you can revive 2 people (or one person 2 times). Effectively turning a game into 6.5 v 5. And when you compared W to other champion buff abilities, you said that you have to stick to one person (a.k.a. adc), but in reality there is so much value by using this ability on different team members, that it makes other buff abilities look less versatile.
E shield and damage is low, but the slow IMO is the strongest aspect of this ability. You can setup your Q and R with the slow. You can peel for the team or prevent ganks in the laning phase. Also, it's a really good spell to apply item buffs such as Shurelya's. Making this ability a team wide speed buff and an aoe slow.
R is slow and hard to engage with it, but there are some points that I want to mention. First of all, it's a great peeling tool. It's basically a wind wall for champions. Also in the laning phase, you can use bushes and flash to catch people off guard for easy kills. One of the strongest things I found is that if you are low, you can W yourself, ult and stopwatch for a free kill and a revive. One more thing. You mentioned that it has a side effect of "if there are no other targets, you are buffing your enemy with the berserk buff", in reality, it's next to impossible case scenario, since there is always lane minions or jungle camps nearby. So in the case if it's one target ult, you just get a free stun.
And finally her passive! It's weak and only good vs low range comps. That's it. The only good thing I found, that it can help your team to take early drakes, but that's about it.
Sorry for flashing my mastery 7, but just wanted to voice my opinion. You got some points right, but wanted to add my input on what I think you got wrong. (And note, that English is not my first language, I may have made some mistakes, but I hope it's readable)
And also, big fan. Use code Vars!
I do have a couple possible counters as well.
In the video they talk about the engage aspect of her q in respect to hook supports, where it generally is the worst, and talk about how, in a game where you would want it for peel, a peel ability such as janna q is much higher value. There aren't really enough scenarios where both the engage and peel are needed in a game for this to make her q that much more impactful than a standard peel or engage ability.
For her w, the attack speed/move speed buff is also more necessary than you think, because without it, you are saying that the difference in lane between fights has to be just barely in favor of enemy, so they are low when your ally dies, even though you are playing down one ability, so the stat buff is really important for lane function and trades, especially since she doesn't have any other good consistent sustain for her teammate. Also, if you are saying it is mainly just saved for the rez, then you are saying is another contingent ability. For her to find value off of arguably her most impactful ability, her carries have to, focused, they have to die, the fight has to be close enough for her ally to finish off the enemy, and the enemy can have a good escape/immunity spell/ability/ or item. It's a lot of conditions to put on such an important ability, which is why the attack/move speed is so important to it, and why the rez doesn't turn it into an ability that's not very niche.
The slow is nice on the e, but in reality, it gets most of it's value in lane. For setting up abilities, it still isn't strong enough to be good into high mobility engage comps, because their dashes and movement + high burst usually either makes it so the slow doesn't hit them, doesn't affect them, or they have already finished their combos in the time it takes for her very long e/q cast time, or e/r meanwhile, she would be neglecting casting w, which is usually more important into these comps. Into front to back, usually she is just hitting immobile frontline and doesn't need the slow to begin with, and into high ranged poke, she is at too much risk of poke/being chunked to walk up for e and normally just plays around carry to drop w/r around. Also, the cast time makes it easy to dodge at those distances. When it comes to peeling for ganks, mostly her q and w and r are more impactful, because the e slow doesn't do much to prevent the dashes or long ranged cc of most junglers.
For the r, as a peel tool, I agree it's nice, but the cast time still does mean it struggles into assassins that peel characters are usually picked for, it only really shines when playing stand your ground into front to back engage, which isn't that many games. As for engage, as you seem to kind of agree, it's only really effective in lane, with flash, and with bush prio and with the element of surprise. If you are looking for a character to help play engage, there are MUCH more consistent and reliable engages, that can play with equal bush prio, without flash, without the element of surprise, and are useful as a primary engage ALL game, so there's not much of a reason to pick renata for engage. and for the stopwatch play, it's not really consistent enough or useful enough to really change anything. It means they have to be focusing you over your carries, which usually either means you mispositioned, your carry is afk, or the enemies are already getting less value, because of bad focus. It only really works when teams full commit onto you. You only have stopwatch once per game and it doesn't always get value, so it's only effective once, and you aren't using your w on your carry, which also isn't great.
Also, I kind of disagree with the passive. It's damage is so impactful in lane and can singlehandedly win trades/fights plus it's super consistent. It's one of the only things that makes up for how inconsistent most of her kit is in lane.
Of course, I could also be wrong, I just liked the idea of discussing and giving my thoughts :)
curious whether you agree or disagree.
I completely get you, Renata's kit is so complete that at the same time she is average in general. Want survivability? Take Nami or Soraka. Want hard cc? Take Maokai or Morgana. Need peel? Take Yummi.
Also, something very painful about her kit is that Renata's Q is short, slow, and even has a noticeable casting time, forcing her to walk dangerously close to an enemy in order to land her hook. This is very inconsistent since in order to land an impactful E she has to be at the back...
I think of handshake as a skillshot root like lux and Morgana rather than a hook personally, it's very rare for me to actually drag people towards me. She is definitely up there as one of my favorite supports, I disagree with ebb and flow being better by default because anti heal is more common than shield breaking, it's also just a very satisfying skill to hit.
Yeah I agree, it feels more like swain e but you choose the direction
Ebb and Flow is better in the neutral game, as a poke tool and is more consistently effective. Loyalty Program has a higher ceiling but is way harder to execute that ceiling
@@arcanegale285 maybe although I find ebb and flow to have major mana issues
@@vcrypt8048 yes and no, enough mana regen items just stops that problem
4:58 "If she knocks them towards enemy champion, that enemy champion i stunned for half a second. This makes handshake the only hook in the game that can crowd two enemies per cast".
My man have previously streamed renekton top vs swain top and you were kept getting rooted by swain's e on minions as returning e explodes in aoe so he can pull any champion that stood near minions (or other champions). This comment is not meant to insult your intellect or anything like that but to give you a tip for future matchup against swain top, i love your content btw
I think she is just right, which is the issue from a league Pov
ngl the most creative supports always get shafted. For instance, I really liked Rell before the rework as her E was DUMMY good allowing for a 5 person stun, but now her kit feels soulless from the lack of a better word
"Because she actually takes skill to play well", I feel like 80% of "why no one plays" can be boiled down to that.
Many high skill Champions are played a lot. that's not it (why no one plays) champions just don't fil rewarding for the skill necessary
Most people play her as an enchanter. WHICH is WRONG! Build her like a tank supp and peel for you carry and survive yourself to be most useful = GG
I don't fully agree with your last point. Having to play behind the adc maximise value from E shouldn't be a problem if the rest of her kit made up for it. Seraphine has enough range and utility to make it work, and so does Senna (Nami too, to a lesser extent) Lulu can still use Q from allies because of pixie.
Renata is just in an awkward spot where each of her abilities demand a different position (closer range for Q and R due to range/speed of travel, close/mid range for passive procs, long range for E).
I love her aesthetics, and her abilities mesh very well thematically, they just have no synergy ingame
This is the crux of my issues with her. I love playing her and she’s my main but this so strongly is felt every time I play her. If her e and q either were longer range, not multifaceted aoes, or were lingering effects rather than skill shots, that would fix so much of her issues imo, as would giving her passive auto increased range. I don’t even mind her moves being slow or slowed down, requiring more set up, but they should at least have better positional synergy and match her intended thematic appeal more
his point about E is just plain wrong. the projectile goes around renata before going forward, so being next to the adc also shield them and you don't need to stay behind them
I must say that i really enjoy your in-depth explanations and comparisons of abilities. As a beginner its much easier to see the differences and why an ability that sounds broken actually isnt.
Thanks for making these videos. Keep it up Vars!!!^^
Because she is a relatively old woman and not another hot anime waifu.
(Personally i think she's hot)
Renata GILF
Love playing her in ARAM all her skills much more useful with so many enemies and allies around.
I think Renata has the potential to be a really cool champ, both Design and her abilities in theory are amazing. But as you said her abilities are just too bad. In my personal opinion making her ultimate either travel faster or at least speed up like maokais would be super nice so you actually can make plays with it without hoping through 7 million extra hoops
Reasons not to play Renata: You could just play anyone else
Reasons to play Renata: Mommy Plus she has a gun
I love playing her :)
I genuinely think no one plays her because she's probably the most difficult enchanter, she mixes both engage and disengage, she's useful for TFs and pick ups, and most support players are not skilled enough to use her properly, and so they stick to the Yuumi, Sona and Soraka *bash the keybord with your head and insta win* gameplay
this video truly has aged terribly pro play wise
if you watch the video , he explains that the champion is better in team play
12:10 Vars thought he could drop the craziest transition ever and get away with it
I literally have not played a single game of league in my life and only watch arcane. All I can say is I think her character design goes SUPER HARD
Vars saying that most ADCs run away when in the face of danger is disproven when the average Vayne or Draven would flash into the entire enemy team when the support is not looking.
She's not a hook champ. It's literally just a Morg Q with movement afterwards. Don't confuse an art-graphic as the actual role of the ability
Yeah similar to Morgana she does well against enemy advance
I tried her and realized that her ultimate post-nerf is basically pointless. I hit a Vayne with it directly whom had stacked attack speed and she was in the middle of an auto on me when it triggered, the switched targets, shot one other person ONCE, then was out of the berserk. None of the others hit did anything significant.
The ultimate feels SO BAD. Even in the ideal scenario of hitting a glass cannon attack speed Vayne, it did 200 damage to a half-health bruiser who didn't care.
Dude, rank 1 ultimate only berserks for *1.25 seconds* without tenacity even applying! If a champion has just used a auto-attack, it's most likely to literally do nothing!
The ending completely encapsulates the problem. She shines in coordinated play but in soloq, your w almost never gets the value it should and she's too nerfed to succeed without it.
I wish I could make work a Rammus Renata bot game where the enemies are zoned from the minion wave, so when Renata casts the R, the enemy starts auto attacking Rammus at double speed XD
Renata is also hindered by perception bias: Your enemies "always" know the best way to shut you down, but your allies "always" never know how to play around you.
She is a skill-check champion in soloqueue, and for an enchanter that makes her awful
I’ve played a lot of support over the years. The number of times allies dodge my janna ultis, juke my redemptions, and run the wrong way when I zilean e them is simply depressing. Renara w… my allies almost never know that it’s on them, and let it go to waste because of it. There’s a sound effect, and a visual that shouldn’t be easy to miss, but somehow people always do miss it
to add to this, ALL her abilities have long cool-downs. Her hook is very hard to land (low range, low travel speed, low hit-box). Even though you get more value by staying behind your ADC for shields, you equally LOOSE value for not trading your HP during a fight AND she tends to have lower range then most ADCs, so by standing behind, you can't contribute with damage or CC, if 2 players can focus your ADC then it's a loos fight (basically her E is useful in team-fights with front-liners, not in 2v2 with ADC). She was popular for her ultimate alone, but then they gutted that ability and now it just feels so weak, it's almost not an ultimate ability. And not to mention that if it touches any wind-shield, it COMPLETELY disappears, not only part of it, ALL of it. She also feels like she scale less then most enchanters, and at the same time, she has worse early-game and lane-presence. She feels like a much worse version of Sona for me, as week as her early, still weaker mid and late-game.
I'm new player in LoL and I did choose Renata as my main champ for two big reasons.
First reason is, she is on the bottom on playrate across all ranks _(thats mean 0% chance to ban= no dodging requirement)_ - best msg from other player to me was "Hi! You are first Renata in my last 500 games!" 🤣
Second reason, she is "true" support hero - thats mean, she no need to items to be effective and she rely heavily on other people _(definition of support role)_ .
Another reasons are: probably best kit - all her spells you can use for offense or deffense and they are independent on themselfs _(for example she is not like Blitz, when he miss the hook, he became for next 15 sec walking training dummy waiting for CD)_ and her spell resolves give you and team great feeling. 😀
I tried multiple support heroes, but with Renata only I m getting almost every match "S" rating in the end and on my road from Iron4 I have 55% win rate _(now Im in Bronze3)_ . I'm curious where is my top rank, with 0-2 games/day it will be long trip. 🙃
I think what makes her frustrating is actually the last part…like you have a renata on your team that W you and you keep running instead of trying to kill and take back your life! Also I think her abilities are slow and easy to dodge…but I do really love to play her…I hope they give her some buffs 🥺🙏
I feel like Q and E have super long cooldown while not doing that much. this made her feel very passive to me compared to other supports.
Honestly unlike other proplay champions like Kalista, Azir, etc. Renata is very easy to understand and play but the fact that YOU understend her dosen't mean that EVERYONE do.
I wouldn't say Renata's hook is "the only hook in the game that can crowd control 2 enemies at once" as Swain's hook can hook multiple enemies in a single cast as well
the problem is that they made her W way too strong
they have to buff her Q E and nerf W
I think they should double down on her passive. Have it interact with her kit more, I think it would make her much more enjoyable. I think about 99% of players don't even know what her passive does, and it's the most fun part of her kit.
The Pyke syndrome
@@fishraposo7192they actually used to on release, but they nerfed that
@@deonm4759Renata has only ever activated her passive through basic attacks. Nothing in her patch history shows her abilities have ever applied it.
renata is one of those supports that is incredibly fun to play in ARAM, and i always find her super useful there, but i genuinely can't imagine picking her in normal games and especially not with randoms
I always felt like she was a jack of all trades, master of none. Maybe someday she'll be a good pick for most players.
Since we are at the time of the world championship, think will be a good video to talk about champions that are balance around pro play, the so call pro jail champions, that even they win a pick rate are relativity low they cant give them a buff because if they do they spiral out off control in pro play.
I really enjoy Renata but I always found one of the main issues with her ult was that it didn't have enough potential. Best case scenario you hit a Kog or Twitch and they shred the enemy team, though that's rarely the case. The thing with ults like Sona or Seraphine is you want to be able to combo off with your teammates, but if Renata ults the enemy and your team uses any following cc then the point of Renata's ult is wasted because the enemy won't be attacking themselves anymore.
"Why Everyone Plays Malphite" would be a good video, especially since his kit is outdated but it doesn't stop him from being played a lot
Every time I played her my teammates had NO IDEA what my champion does, that's frustrating as hell.
so what i hear is that enchanter players don't want to play a champ that requires hard decision making..
Why does this man always choose my mains to add to this series
The main reason I stopped playing her is that her cooldowns in lane are way too long and not impactful enough to justify it. I genuinely feel like the most impactful thing I can do in laning phase is proc my passive and that really shits on any satisfaction I could get from playing her.
Just love when the game goes late, buffing nasus and watching him pog out of his gourd is great fun
Great summary, I can only add one thing:
Renata's ult with no hostiles nearby has a fairly high value for finishing ioslated targets.
If the enemy is highly mobile while your lane is not and they continue to get away at low health, you can use it to pull then back in,
Most people, when given the choice at low health between eating more damage and dodging renata ult or tanking the ult that does no damage, they will choose the latter.
In those cases, the ult acts like a 1.25 second charm.
playing renata without your adc being your premade is an actual nightmare
i've played with defrosted cabbages that have more sentience than my random adc's
Thresh hook cant drag people over walls but thresh flay can pull champs over small walls like the one on bot blue side that runs along river across from the dragon pit.
As a Renata main my only issue with her is her q being not much as a threat as it could be in lane and yes it’s fun to slam enemies together or a minion into an enemy for a stun but she’s basically a shield spam champion and she relies on her team to carry for her and if they misuse her sion revive mechanic than you’re team is as good as dead. But her strongest attribute in my opinion is her ult if used correctly since it’s always fun making the fed enemy yi just kill his entire team along with the hyper carry aswell and just getting a penta off of that
Next video will be Milio, his also with a low playrate, but I think it's just the nerfs that really gutted him, not problems in his kit like Miss Glasc
He just got big buff in 13.20 so let's see if what happens first
I really dont understand all the hate. I love playing Renata so much i switched from being a viktor mid main to a renata support main
Renata tank is still good, just bait enemy to surround you and jump on top of you, sustain it, throw ult, and with your big damage allies hidden in bush they will destroy their team.
What i hate about renata is the seeming necessity that my adc has literally no idea what my w does so i gotta spell it out for them, even if i tell them "it makes you unkillable" (overexaggeration to make them actually go in) they STILL run away
5:02 She's technically not the only one who's hook can root multiple people as Swain's E can root even 5
There is a way to make her playable again:
- Her Passive: All skills apply her passive, her Ult double the damage of the mark
- Q: make it longer like Blitz's and the second cast also deals damage
- W: last longer if your allies is below 50% health
- E: fly faster and further
- Ultimate: moving faster like Nami's ult, if there is no enemy nearby, they will hurt themself
Not gonna lie a Renata ult with Nami ult speed is terrifying and potentially broken
Great video. The only thing I disagree with is when you said that she has the only hook ability which has the potential to CC two people, as we also have Swain and Darius E which can in theory CC 5 people.
Renata with a huge amount of magic penetration can really deal some unexpected damage.
I believe if they provide renata a passive mechanic where she can evolve her abilities like Viktor she will be way more effective like:
Evolved Q at lvl 10: Provide a root tether similar to Karma E and also makes you hook someone to a longer distance.
Evolved W: Extend the duration and more passive stats
Evolved E: Wider projectile and more stats
Evolved Ult: Extend the duration
That's would be way better to give the player an agency on how to play her.
Q - Slow skillshot, hard to hit, smal cc duration.
W - Hard to kill opponents in a small amount of time to be revived
E - Inexistent shield, no poke/damage (you cant help W resurrection since you have no damage to help killing the enemy)
R .Probably the only worth ability of her kit, but VERY small duration
I enjoy playing renata like a ranged tank. I build her like thresh, sometimes i even go bork for more % damage. She's one of thos characters like shaco or kat where you can build a lot of weird ways to fit many situations. My favorite is going evenshroud into anathema's chains. Make the entire enemy team vulnerable to more damage, make the cc last longer on the enemy adc, murder everyone :P
also I maybe use runannes sometimes in that build to apply the passive to more people >.>
I fell in love with offense supports with thresh, pyke and renata. Sure, ren is relatively weak, but when she goes off its pretty gratifying
I don’t play league (but do enjoy following it) so take this with a grain of salt but I think she might do well with a melee carry in the botlane. Like her E and W seem designed for those who want go in rather than hang back or maybe something weird like pyke renata botlane
you are correct. placing it on olaf or master yi it's hilarious