If you would like to see an example of "good player with mediocre army" check out @Happykrumpinwargaming007 latest live stream where he plays a teaching game against Eldar!
Dev wounds going straight through is the biggest killer. Played against a chaos list with two forgefiends and each shooting phase he killed 5-6 custodes with them
@@alexrowson-brown6568 against 5 guard, with sustained on 5+ with dark pact 6+3 shots 6 hits and 3 sustained 1.5 dev wounds and 4.5 wounds 2.25 failed saves 3.75 dead custodes per Forgefiend That's before strats and rerolls from Abaddon and Hellbrute buffs
@@alexrowson-brown6568 that is not enough. That is the issue. If your 5 man loses 3 guys that unit is not bringing down a forgefiend and will be finished next turn. Going from 5 and cap to 2 and cap is a huge hit. That is 15 attacks gone. Cool that you seem to think it is enough but mathematically it really is not.
@@shanesmith4170 17 attacks is plenty to bring it down 17 through from sustained hits plus 3 from rerolling 1s Total 20 hits Wound on 4 from strat 10 go through Forgefeinds saves on 5 so saves 2-3 which is a dead forgefeind
Good video! I agree on your fix, points are the main thing :). Our strength right now is our super unique ability to rapid ingress up to 4 units in a turn and our, ability to deny primary.
Things that need to change, dev wounds protection and mortal wounds protection, and squad size, all custodes should be able to go down to three models to a max of 6 up, so we can get more for our points and make them cheaper again, that would help custodes the most
I know I have gold coloured lenses on here, but in the age of a shooting meta, I think it would be interesting to leave our points as they are and change our detachment ability to a flat 4+ FNP (on all adeptus Custodes models) I know it sounds OP, but... - It would be thematic - it reduces the impact of every failed save = 50+ points of dead models - Given the army is spec'd to stand on primary as a path to victory, we can't rely on our strats to save our models (for example) 2 units on mid table objectives. 1 shield cap + warden/guard, 1 Trajann + warden/guard. In their shooting phase, as long as the opponent's brain hasn't fallen out, they will always shoot the shield cap first to force the free Strat and then we can't use -1dmg to save Trajann squad, then swap targets & melt the other squad with dmg3 weapons. We can't really play around it either. As we need to stand in objectives to win & the free Strat has been around long enough every one knows how to get around it.... Or change the wording on our strats / abilities, so we can declare it at the start of the shooting phase &/or let the shield cap free Strat target unit within X inches.
This was yet another very good video with solid explanations on how you arrived at the conclusions you have. I think it was solid and appreciate it. Im going to build a test list of what you said is a solid starting point, though I am in the USA so... them Grav tanks look real good...
We should still get our FNP against Devastating Wounds. Honestly I think to really lean into durability with alright damage output but small model count being Custode's gimmick, we should get FNP 4+ against all wounds with a 3+ against Mortal Wounds being a detachment ability. Also axes need to be fixed, either by gaining 1 Attack or going back to 2+ WS.
I think keeping the detachment the same bit making it interact with devastating wounds would fix most of the problems on te survability front. As for axe I think they should have devastating wounds put on them, along with sword gaining 2 attacks. Which kind of brings them all in line with each other for damage out put which is kind of needed. Based then sort of on the blade champions weapon choices
I am fairly new to warhammer, but considering playing custodes. My favorite faction in lore, and i love the idea of playing a small army of super soldiers. (Also saves a whole bunch of money on paints and miniatures) I am considering this 1000 point army. Would love to hear your thoughts 5 Wardens 1 Blade champion 2x 4 Guards 3 Allarus (Local rules do not allow named characters)
Sorry for the late response! 1000 point games are very different, so I don't wanna give to much of an argument for or against. At this level I would highly suggest to just play what you like
Enjoyed the video, speaks to much of what I’ve seen in custodes on this side of the pond. I’m restructuring my custodes for crusade and have been thinking of dropping the grav tank for some venatari. Seems they check some boxes I need and they’ve been in the shelf for long enough already. I’m guessing the answer is no, but I assume lance wouldnt stack with the slayer of nightmares strat as well correct?
What custodes lack is damage output. If they could at least guarantee a somewhat suboptimal trade it would allow for a more dynamic game. Right now its just about camping objectives and hoping you dont get swarmed of shot off the board.
I see a couple ways to fix custodes. Rolling back points does not really help. You may get and extra captain into your list or a 4 man custodian guard squad but that will be about it. That does not fix our problem which is getting enough of our guys to stay alive on the point. The answer to me is yes, roll back the points but also give Custodian Guard and Wardens the ability to have 4-6 guys in a squad. This way it keeps with the idea of if you buy two boxes you still get two units but having the extra guy be able to be in the unit combined with points roll backs could mean us hitting that sweet spot of having enough bodies be able to survive long enough for it to matter. Either that or crank the lethality of the unit through the roof so that even going into 2-3 custodes is scary to most any unit. For this I would say give and additional AP to both spears and axes, give Sentinel Blade backs it’s 2 damage attacks. The way we are currently though is not sustainable.
For our points costs/army size the durability shouldn't be "quite good" - it should be exceptional like it was before they took away our detachment ability. Dev wounds not being saveable anymore on top of all the other hefty nerfs? Kinda ruined the faction for me TBH. And I'm talking not just rules but also FLUFF. SM are a better choice now in every possible regard except 1v1 combat, who cares when they're outnumbering us 3 to 1 or more every time? I WANT MY DURABILITY BACK❕️
Last Saturday I played against astra militarum. He had 2 Rogals, 1 chimera, 2 Lemans with demolishers and a Baneblade, lord Solar, gaunts ghost, katchans and a command squad. I surrendered twice in turn 3. I had Trajan with wardens, 1 squad of custodian guard, 1 venatari, 1 unit of 3 and of 2 allarus, a blade champ , venerable land raider and 2 bikers with a captain. No chance.
When a character joins a unit, that unit are treated as having the keywords of the character. Therefore it becomes a character unit, or a psyker unit etc.
i dont think they are anwser to all of our problems, but they certainly are quite good at their job. they are pricy, and you can loose badly if you missplay with them, but they are a devastating forces of nature if used properly.
Hmm what am I missing in that last list...Im getting 2005 points :/ But either way good content! I've also just discovered that Venatari could be of good use.
The cap of 5 guards really hurt the durability and dmg output of the unit. Weirdly, i seem to encountered more Mortal wounds than Devastating wounds in my games
It's an unfortunate effect that GW have walked into multiple times. They nerf a faction cause they are too strong (custodes were) but they also change general game rules which happen to affect armies they already nerfed.
Great video, it’s a shame that units like these are both often unavailable and overpriced to buy, so it’s a bit irrelevant as most people either can’t get them or can’t afford them.
Look, lets be honest, Custodes are not good anymore because when GW increased our points, the other armies had a point decrease. Which means they have more stuff to field and we have less. Its almost like having less options then our opponents makes us weaker. This is ontop of the Dev wound changes, rule changes and squad decrease. I'm glad you acknowledge it. Most of the 40k players I've seen on youtube like art of war, keep insisting that custodes are still good. But they are not. Custodes is a hyper elite army. They need to be tough and efficient which they are not currently. If 1 squad can get wiped out in 1 turn, we are not tough. If we cannot kill a unit in 1 turn, we are not efficient. If GW wants to reduce our numbers then their toughness and hyper efficiency should make up for it. To me, the best way to play custodes is to play them as a skewed list. Cause if we try to match our opponent with a balance list, we will just lose. With a skewed list, we either win big or loss big.
I'm thinking the current problem with custodes is: we arent tanky enough and our shooting is generaly terrible for a hyper elite army. Sorry but s4 shooting...don't kill anything. Recently play against votann got destroy because my tank got nuke turn 1 and after that it was a uphill battle. After that my 275 points of wardens (2+,4++ and 4+++) still got again nuke by 220 points. We are expensive, but we lack defensive tools and decent shooting (outside of Caladius). And lastly, devastating wounds shouldn't be a thing and if it is, at least raised the defense profile on some units (go back to 3++ for some units)
I prefer guard, wardens survive one phase then die the next, they aren’t very good, guard just hide them, then strike onto the objective get the rerolls and clear enemy off it, you may lose a couple after but that is fine, sticky it and go hunt you most likely keep that objective next turn and can go kill But I cut both entirely full send allarus and venatari with tanks and land raider Tanks can move up after clearing big firepower away and hold primaries, sisters can stay back to screen if needed or do secondaries
Great a resin FW tank and resin FW dudes. Awesome. The combination of two things l dislike for many reasons. I hope the spring codex will fix custodes and give us maybe a unit or two, and not something lame like a "custodes chaplain"
Thats the worst part of all the changes we got imo. Before, we didnt need any FW units for the first time ever I think. But now we once again need to include FW.
@@grubbie8614well l ain't spending 1/4th of my salary for a tank, to then need to buy a second one. I just can't afford it. But it would be nice if one of my 6 contemptors or 10 jetbikes worked..
Personally i'm happy to see this, TO SOME DEGREE, and a personal one at that. So now I can enjoy the faction I have loved to bits for years now and not be called meta or anything fucking cringe like that at my local store where I play. I do have a very good win rate there and people didn't like playing me. Though note I am not a meta chaser, never ran meta units like the 10 man custodes blob and I am super chill at the table when it comes to letting people take back stuff and such
If you would like to see an example of "good player with mediocre army" check out @Happykrumpinwargaming007 latest live stream where he plays a teaching game against Eldar!
Dev wounds going straight through is the biggest killer. Played against a chaos list with two forgefiends and each shooting phase he killed 5-6 custodes with them
Sounds like lucky rolls, forgefeinds do fuck all to me
@@alexrowson-brown6568 against 5 guard, with sustained on 5+ with dark pact
6+3 shots
6 hits and 3 sustained
1.5 dev wounds and 4.5 wounds
2.25 failed saves
3.75 dead custodes per Forgefiend
That's before strats and rerolls from Abaddon and Hellbrute buffs
@@RustySpoon cool I still have 1-2 plus leader to smack it the next turn
@@alexrowson-brown6568 that is not enough. That is the issue. If your 5 man loses 3 guys that unit is not bringing down a forgefiend and will be finished next turn. Going from 5 and cap to 2 and cap is a huge hit. That is 15 attacks gone. Cool that you seem to think it is enough but mathematically it really is not.
@@shanesmith4170 17 attacks is plenty to bring it down
17 through from sustained hits plus 3 from rerolling 1s
Total 20 hits
Wound on 4 from strat 10 go through
Forgefeinds saves on 5 so saves 2-3 which is a dead forgefeind
Good video! I agree on your fix, points are the main thing :). Our strength right now is our super unique ability to rapid ingress up to 4 units in a turn and our, ability to deny primary.
Cut points pls on all infantry and bikes, let me run 7 bikes again too, might actually become playable
Things that need to change, dev wounds protection and mortal wounds protection, and squad size, all custodes should be able to go down to three models to a max of 6 up, so we can get more for our points and make them cheaper again, that would help custodes the most
I know I have gold coloured lenses on here, but in the age of a shooting meta, I think it would be interesting to leave our points as they are and change our detachment ability to a flat 4+ FNP (on all adeptus Custodes models)
I know it sounds OP, but...
- It would be thematic
- it reduces the impact of every failed save = 50+ points of dead models
- Given the army is spec'd to stand on primary as a path to victory, we can't rely on our strats to save our models (for example)
2 units on mid table objectives. 1 shield cap + warden/guard, 1 Trajann + warden/guard. In their shooting phase, as long as the opponent's brain hasn't fallen out, they will always shoot the shield cap first to force the free Strat and then we can't use -1dmg to save Trajann squad, then swap targets & melt the other squad with dmg3 weapons. We can't really play around it either. As we need to stand in objectives to win & the free Strat has been around long enough every one knows how to get around it....
Or change the wording on our strats / abilities, so we can declare it at the start of the shooting phase &/or let the shield cap free Strat target unit within X inches.
No lol that would be way to good
I don't want ruin more brushes with metal paints
This was yet another very good video with solid explanations on how you arrived at the conclusions you have. I think it was solid and appreciate it. Im going to build a test list of what you said is a solid starting point, though I am in the USA so... them Grav tanks look real good...
I just got a bunch of Venatari in! Super excited to get them painted and play!
We should still get our FNP against Devastating Wounds. Honestly I think to really lean into durability with alright damage output but small model count being Custode's gimmick, we should get FNP 4+ against all wounds with a 3+ against Mortal Wounds being a detachment ability. Also axes need to be fixed, either by gaining 1 Attack or going back to 2+ WS.
Exactly!
lol no that is going to far brother
I think keeping the detachment the same bit making it interact with devastating wounds would fix most of the problems on te survability front. As for axe I think they should have devastating wounds put on them, along with sword gaining 2 attacks. Which kind of brings them all in line with each other for damage out put which is kind of needed. Based then sort of on the blade champions weapon choices
As someone who both plays and plays against Custodes regularly, absolutely not.
@@elliottcross2932 yeah thats fair, FNP against everything is probably too powerful to be honest
The TH-cam algorithm gods have lead me to this secret custodes technology chanel. Praise the emporer!
I am fairly new to warhammer, but considering playing custodes. My favorite faction in lore, and i love the idea of playing a small army of super soldiers. (Also saves a whole bunch of money on paints and miniatures) I am considering this 1000 point army. Would love to hear your thoughts
5 Wardens
1 Blade champion
2x 4 Guards
3 Allarus
(Local rules do not allow named characters)
Sorry for the late response! 1000 point games are very different, so I don't wanna give to much of an argument for or against. At this level I would highly suggest to just play what you like
Enjoyed the video, speaks to much of what I’ve seen in custodes on this side of the pond. I’m restructuring my custodes for crusade and have been thinking of dropping the grav tank for some venatari. Seems they check some boxes I need and they’ve been in the shelf for long enough already. I’m guessing the answer is no, but I assume lance wouldnt stack with the slayer of nightmares strat as well correct?
it would not. Only situation where it would be useful is if the enemy has -1 to wound. Then you can "bypass" it with Slayer of Nightmares
What custodes lack is damage output. If they could at least guarantee a somewhat suboptimal trade it would allow for a more dynamic game. Right now its just about camping objectives and hoping you dont get swarmed of shot off the board.
I see a couple ways to fix custodes. Rolling back points does not really help. You may get and extra captain into your list or a 4 man custodian guard squad but that will be about it. That does not fix our problem which is getting enough of our guys to stay alive on the point. The answer to me is yes, roll back the points but also give Custodian Guard and Wardens the ability to have 4-6 guys in a squad. This way it keeps with the idea of if you buy two boxes you still get two units but having the extra guy be able to be in the unit combined with points roll backs could mean us hitting that sweet spot of having enough bodies be able to survive long enough for it to matter.
Either that or crank the lethality of the unit through the roof so that even going into 2-3 custodes is scary to most any unit. For this I would say give and additional AP to both spears and axes, give Sentinel Blade backs it’s 2 damage attacks.
The way we are currently though is not sustainable.
I think we have good days ahead and I'm doing a slow grow for my custodes army
Waiting for the units especially the dreads to get better
We are definitely getting a buff come January, lets see what they end up doing!
For our points costs/army size the durability shouldn't be "quite good" - it should be exceptional like it was before they took away our detachment ability. Dev wounds not being saveable anymore on top of all the other hefty nerfs? Kinda ruined the faction for me TBH. And I'm talking not just rules but also FLUFF.
SM are a better choice now in every possible regard except 1v1 combat, who cares when they're outnumbering us 3 to 1 or more every time? I WANT MY DURABILITY BACK❕️
Do join the queue behind death guard 😂
@@kazanekagari5209
Good one! 😂👍
Last Saturday I played against astra militarum. He had 2 Rogals, 1 chimera, 2 Lemans with demolishers and a Baneblade, lord Solar, gaunts ghost, katchans and a command squad. I surrendered twice in turn 3. I had Trajan with wardens, 1 squad of custodian guard, 1 venatari, 1 unit of 3 and of 2 allarus, a blade champ , venerable land raider and 2 bikers with a captain. No chance.
how can allrus get rerolls vs a unit dat have a character ? is it not only if the hit the character and not the holde unit ?
When a character joins a unit, that unit are treated as having the keywords of the character. Therefore it becomes a character unit, or a psyker unit etc.
@@Rejnols thx i get alot more use out of my allrus now then :)
Just played nids in my first game of 10th and had this exact experience.
I try to add your base list in the 40K app, it is 2005 points now
As I said in another comment simply change witchseekers to Prosecutors for example
When do you think the next dataslate will be?
Its usually every 3 months, so sometime in January
Go back to some old points… maybe actually reduce bikes a tiny bit (including the cap on Dawn Eagle jetbike)
i dont think they are anwser to all of our problems, but they certainly are quite good at their job. they are pricy, and you can loose badly if you missplay with them, but they are a devastating forces of nature if used properly.
Dreadnaughts just die early to the tanks…. Easy to take out one dress per tank per turn
Hmm what am I missing in that last list...Im getting 2005 points :/
But either way good content! I've also just discovered that Venatari could be of good use.
I may have messed up. But you can change the witch seekers to prosecutors and it should add up
@@Rejnols hehe no worries but ye thats what I did :)
The cap of 5 guards really hurt the durability and dmg output of the unit.
Weirdly, i seem to encountered more Mortal wounds than Devastating wounds in my games
We are indeed in a weird spot where the only truly durable units for its points cost is Wardens
I think we need shield captain venatari
Gotta say, it's weird that golden boys got nerfed harder than the eldar....
It's an unfortunate effect that GW have walked into multiple times. They nerf a faction cause they are too strong (custodes were) but they also change general game rules which happen to affect armies they already nerfed.
Short answer, no
But they’re good to free drop in and bolster fronts and zip around to capture things, interfere and do secondaries
Great video, it’s a shame that units like these are both often unavailable and overpriced to buy, so it’s a bit irrelevant as most people either can’t get them or can’t afford them.
I can totally recommend recasters. Same quality at a way lower price.
Tyranids actually can't take sticky objectives with Rippers, they have no OC.
good point!
Look, lets be honest, Custodes are not good anymore because when GW increased our points, the other armies had a point decrease. Which means they have more stuff to field and we have less. Its almost like having less options then our opponents makes us weaker. This is ontop of the Dev wound changes, rule changes and squad decrease.
I'm glad you acknowledge it. Most of the 40k players I've seen on youtube like art of war, keep insisting that custodes are still good. But they are not. Custodes is a hyper elite army. They need to be tough and efficient which they are not currently. If 1 squad can get wiped out in 1 turn, we are not tough. If we cannot kill a unit in 1 turn, we are not efficient. If GW wants to reduce our numbers then their toughness and hyper efficiency should make up for it.
To me, the best way to play custodes is to play them as a skewed list. Cause if we try to match our opponent with a balance list, we will just lose. With a skewed list, we either win big or loss big.
I'm thinking the current problem with custodes is: we arent tanky enough and our shooting is generaly terrible for a hyper elite army. Sorry but s4 shooting...don't kill anything. Recently play against votann got destroy because my tank got nuke turn 1 and after that it was a uphill battle. After that my 275 points of wardens (2+,4++ and 4+++) still got again nuke by 220 points.
We are expensive, but we lack defensive tools and decent shooting (outside of Caladius).
And lastly, devastating wounds shouldn't be a thing and if it is, at least raised the defense profile on some units (go back to 3++ for some units)
I prefer guard, wardens survive one phase then die the next, they aren’t very good, guard just hide them, then strike onto the objective get the rerolls and clear enemy off it, you may lose a couple after but that is fine, sticky it and go hunt you most likely keep that objective next turn and can go kill
But I cut both entirely full send allarus and venatari with tanks and land raider
Tanks can move up after clearing big firepower away and hold primaries, sisters can stay back to screen if needed or do secondaries
Disagree. What custodes does good is primary game. Wardens are better at that in every way due to their durability
Great a resin FW tank and resin FW dudes. Awesome. The combination of two things l dislike for many reasons. I hope the spring codex will fix custodes and give us maybe a unit or two, and not something lame like a "custodes chaplain"
Thats the worst part of all the changes we got imo. Before, we didnt need any FW units for the first time ever I think. But now we once again need to include FW.
@@grubbie8614well l ain't spending 1/4th of my salary for a tank, to then need to buy a second one. I just can't afford it. But it would be nice if one of my 6 contemptors or 10 jetbikes worked..
I have 12. 😂
Custodes are so bad it’s not fair!
😢🤓
First🎉
Personally i'm happy to see this, TO SOME DEGREE, and a personal one at that. So now I can enjoy the faction I have loved to bits for years now and not be called meta or anything fucking cringe like that at my local store where I play. I do have a very good win rate there and people didn't like playing me. Though note I am not a meta chaser, never ran meta units like the 10 man custodes blob and I am super chill at the table when it comes to letting people take back stuff and such
I put 6 Venatari in a land raider. Bloody great fun!
Venatari cannot embark in any transport.