The Best Suburbs In North America: 10 Places With Great Urbanism Outside the Core City
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ธ.ค. 2022
- Today's video features -- suburbs! A typical "best suburbs in America" list would focus on things like "good" schools, low crime rates, tolerable traffic...you know, things the type of people who like suburban life tend to care about.
This channel always has a different take, though. Instead, I wanted to know -- what are the most URBAN suburbs? It really isn't an oxymoron. So I looked at suburbs with density, good urban fabric, good Walk and Bike Score ratings (citations below), and great transit.
The list, and the honorable mentions, end up being a lot of fun. Hope you enjoy!
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Other CityNerd Videos referenced:
- Waterfront Freeways: • Highway Engineering Ma...
- Car-Free In the Sun Belt: • Live Car-Free In the S...
- Small Cities/Big Transit: • Smaller Cities With Gr...
- Lincoln Tunnel, the XBL, and the PABT: • What a Tunnel Should D...
- 100K Live Stream Recording: • 100K Livestream Q&A Wi...
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Resources:
- Walk Score methodology: www.walkscore.com/methodology...
- www.translink.ca/schedules-an...
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Image Credits:
- Suburbs Video by Kindel Media: www.pexels.com/video/drone-fo...
- www.panynj.gov/path/en/schedu...
- Evanston, IL thumbnail By Photo by David Braverman. Later version(s) were uploaded by Reub2000 at en.wikipedia. - Transferred from en.wikipedia, CC BY 2.5, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
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Key point about Arlington is that they fought in the 1970s to have Metro stations only half a mile apart. Metro wanted them much farther. It's really helped build up the density.
Unfortunately most of the stops past Arlington are like that. Basically just park-and-rides
The East Falls Chruch station in far west Arlington is 3 miles from Ballston is and is one of the park and rides surrounded by single family homes. Odd that this one in particular is different.
Arlington also had WMATA move part of the planned Orange Line from the I-66 median to Wilson Blvd and coordinated their zoning to allow high-rises along it, with height limits dropping sharply as you move away from Wilson. It's kind of a famous example in the planning world.
It also had a comprehensive transit-oriented development plan with "bulls eye" density and parking zoning around the stations. It is a textbook example of successful transit-oriented development planning.
@@sammyf1567 Regarding East Falls Church, there was a plan in the early teens to redevelop the surface parking there as transit-oriented development, but NIMBYs torpedoed that. Maybe come up again in the future.
Hello!!!! I am a transit planner for the county of Arlington, Virginia! Glad to see us make the list. I specificity joined the team here because of the incredible transit-oriented development that has taken place here. Arlington’s lowest subdivision of jurisdiction is the county. There is no “city of Arlington.” The county manager is essentially the mayor. There is much more to the upzoned areas around metros than just Rosslyn. That density extends all the way to Ballston, on the west of the county. Similar development happened in both Pentagon and Crystal City. And now, the Columbia Pike in the south is being transformed in a similar manner (though not as dense because of the lack of metro stations along the route).
Thanks for this!
As a Crystal City resident - thanks for your work! I've lived here four years and seen a lot of positive changes in that short time.
@@CityNerd I think the only other state that goes as all in on County Government as VA does is Hawaii. In most parts of VA, including all the big Northern VA population centers like Fairfax, Arlington or Loudoun Counties, most of the people don't live in the borders of a town/city. There are place names well known in the area such as Ashburn, Reston, Ballston or Tysons that seem like cities, but have no actual town/city government. The county runs it all. It's also the land of the HoA, as in the newer developed parts of the region these mega-developments like Brambleton or Cascades are mini pseudo-governments in their own right, filling in the place that towns occupy in most of the country.
The incorporated cities in Virginia, conversely, aren't considered part of counties. So the city of Alexandia VA borders Fairfax and Arlington counties, but isn't part of either. This leads to strange things like the Fairfax County courthouse not being in Fairfax County! (it's in the City of Fairfax, which is incorporated and therefore not part of Fairfax County--although it's completely surrounded by it).
This brings up another point which is a lot of these places that are wonderfully planned are also incredibly expensive as well as successful. Arlington, Pasadena, Brookline, Cambridge. It does say something about well do e dense planning though I don’t know if that’s good or bad.
Video suggestion: best waterfronts (whether it be river, lake or coast) for North American cities. Whenever I travel, one of the most charming and enduring elements of the urbanist experience is how the cityscape incorporates its natural water assets. Love your content, keep it up!
Worst waterfront nominee: Kingston, Ontario. Went from the industrial revolution era of ship yards, heavy manufacturing, coal gas plants, etc. to a post WWII era of private properties (hotels, mainly) that cut off the waterfront from the rest of the city.
Best waterfront nominee: Lachine, Quebec. Now a borough of Montreal but was originally incorporated in 1848 and for most of the 20th century was a self-governed suburb of Montreal. Its waterfront along Lac Saint Louis is almost entirely undeveloped public parks.
also could further differentiate between park waterfronts and developed waterfronts, compare/contrast for example Sacramento, CA with San Antonio, TX
I'd have to go with West Seattle for that one.
I mean the best waterfront is going to be Chicago. No contest!
I love that you included 3 Boston suburbs on your official list plus honorable mention of Malden. Honestly, there are a few more such as Quincy. All these cities existed about the same time as Boston was founded. During the 1900’s, cities started to be annexed by Boston. Brookline was always well-to-do and decided against becoming part of Boston. A small strip of land was created so Brighton and Allston could be part of the contiguous Boston boundary. Many of Boston’s farther out suburbs were originally created around rail stations. Even places like Concord, Gloucester, and Rockport have nice walkable downtowns that are centered on their commuter rail stations. I live over 30 miles from Boston, but I can walk to my town’s train station and be in Boston in less than an hour.
There is also walkable “suburban” cities in western MA as well
off the top of my head I can count....
Malden ( Malden Center, which is dead )
Brookline ( it's not quite the burbs, but yes, plenty walkable if you consider Coolidge Corner, a stretch on Brookline Hills, definetively, Brookline Village and Pill Hill ( outer surroundings ), Clevcland Circle ( part Brookline, part Brighton ).
Quincy Center by Hancock Street
Boston around Forest Hills station ( Roslindale )
Roslindale Center ( Boston again )
Downtown Stoughton
Newton by Newton Centre ( very lively ) and Newtonville ( off the i-90 Turnpike ), althought the late is a bit dormant
Dorchester-Milton Line by the Lower Mills (around Baker's Chocolate Factory ).
Watertown around Main Street
Belmont , by Trapelo Road
Needham heights by the rail
Downtown Framingham by the rail and around. Forget Route 9
Brigton Center in Boston from Market Street towards Oak Square, the whole stretch.
Waltham by around Main Street and Moody Street.
@@showcaseSampa I don't know if you've been to Malden Center recently, but it's far from dead. Even before the new multi-use complex went up, Malden was becoming a destination because of things like Boda Borg and Ming's Seafood. With the new complex, and the one going up across the street, it's only becoming more of a draw.
@@nekodromeda It may then have changed a lot.
Early 2010-2013, when I got around for photo rental listings, even the main Crossing by the Commuter Rail Center @ Commercial St &, Pleasant St was dead. Some storefronts on the Pleasant Side, the Parking Garage, and those large parking lot retail stops at Commercial, and that huge parking garage. I gave up on it.
It used to be a place where most Arabs ( and Persians ) and other folks went for cheaper rent without going to derelict places such as Downtown Lynn.
It was a place you went by, maybe dropped along for groceries and went past apartment buildings.
Back then, you wanted a lively downtown burb, that was Quincy Center, Newton Centre ( Newtown Corner over the pike was dead then ). Brookline's Coolidge Corner and Cleveland Circle were hardly burbs.
Most Chinese who weren't so keen in Chinatown ( which was taken over by Tufts Residents, Emerson College Adventurers ), and Grannie/Granpa from China ( mostly residing on HUD Apartments ). The Chinese ( even 1st Generation ) moved to either Brookline ( those who could afford it ), or Quincy ( AKA Chinatown South ).
The Chinese Supermarket by the South Bay Mall ( The Super 88 ), past the Holiday Inn Express,, was not an indicative of Chinese being ensconced in Dorchester, but rather a stopover for those who did business in Chinatown and commute Southbound. It was just a bigger Chinese Supermarket that had plenty parking, something Chinatown sorely lacked.
Maybe things changed. I haven't been around for a while.
Thx for the heads up
Yeah, Boston is great! Slightly racist, but great. Also Philly and Pittsburgh are the greatest in walkability and affordability.
On the topic of considering affordability: I would love to see a video on affordable walkable places since most walkable cities in North America tend to be super expensive.
This is, of course, partly just supply and demand. There aren't many truly walkable places in the US (and Canada), so the places that are walkable are necessarily expensive.
Oops, all (insert core neighborhood of Midwestern city here)!
The'ain't none.
There’s an “Underrated metro areas” video on this channel that gets sort of into that
My neighborhood is extremely walkable, and much more affordable than greater Boston (where I moved from). And no, I'm not telling you which neighborhood.
Fun fact those of us from Greater Boston know ... Cambridge and Somerville together are collectively called Camberville. The two cities are culturally one in many ways. [And where I'd be living if I could afford it.]
One of the interesting phenomenons impacting this is the different ways that cities have or have not expanded their own borders. Philadelphia's absence from the list (and, I believe, Toronto's as well) has as much to do with the size of its physical borders as anything else. There are incredible neighborhoods within the current Philly city limits that don't count as suburbs (but indeed, some were developed as "street car suburbs") that are farther away from downtown Philly than Cambridge is from downtown Boston or Hoboken is from Manhattan.
Which inflates the population of those cities. People like to hate on Boston but don't factor in the total square miles of the cities that they represent. Look at Houston, a city that has over 700 square miles of city within it's limits. Is all of that Houston or did they incorporate the surrounding suburbs?
@@letitiajeavons6333 and on the Jersey side Collingswood and Haddonfield but both not big enough population. Maybe if you combined the whole area into Haddon and built up the density around Patco. If this list was made in 1940 I think Camden might be #1.
Yep, Toronto's suburbs didn't make the cut, and largely for the same reason. Most recently, the borders were expanded in 1998 to swallow up five surburbs. That said, I doubt any of them would've made this list either.
Nyc expanded when the towns of Brooklyn, queens, Bronx and states island agreed to combine. But otherwise the smaller towns are incorporated and have to agree to merging with each other or a neighboring larger city
In the case of Toronto, in the 90s it was forced to merge with “Inner Suburbs” that formerly made Metro Toronto (which was like a county). Two of those might have feasibly been honourable mentions (York and East York) as the boundaries between them and the old City of Toronto are fairly indistinguishable. They are also made up of 1920s-1940s housing stock and are on subway or streetcar lines. Anything outside of those areas including the 3 other cities merged into Toronto (Etobicoke, North York and Scarborough) are mostly post-war, car-centric suburbs that nowhere near match up to those mentioned in this video. Toronto’s subway also doesn’t extend into any outer suburbs except Vaughan and that’s only two stations on an extension that opened up about five years ago. Otherwise you’re looking at commuter rail for suburban rail connection in Toronto.
As a Cambridge resident, seeing Somerville, Brookeline, and Cambridge came as 0 surprise. Lots of great comments about why Brookline isn't part of Boston (Cambridge did the exact same). I love living here and the fact that the area is getting more transit and more cycle infrastructure makes it even better with a bright future!
Wish Western MA was getting the same services. Good to hear though 👍🏻
I’ve been blessed to live in Jersey city and now work in Berkeley CA. I’ve really enjoyed both areas
You meant the Republik of Cambridge.
@@mezzb Reads to me you grew up somewhere between Jamaica Way and Centre Street. That lower section, close to Brookline Village, is called Pill Hill ( not on the map ). Go Figure it.
The part that was getting gentrified, it was the stretch along the Orange Line ( we used to call it Jamaica Spain, or Yamaica Plain ). I love the section by Forest Hill Station. Which is oddly calm and quaint. The stretch around Eggleston Square ( Green Street, Stony Brook stops along Amory Street ) had own its share of issues on petty crime.
The outlined section started getting Art Students from Massart, and MFH School, and those kids, "urban adventurers" became the pathway for more Tip Toesy Joneses to move out there.
Glad to see someone also really dig Somerville! I really wanna come back soon. It was one of those places I’d go to as a kid and always awe at all the different stores and buildings there. I was born in MA and also grew up for a few years in Pawtucket / Providence area and always liked the downtown there as well. Even the Marshalls up in MA is something else to me.
That part of Mass is great in general. There’s a few rougher spots but it is what it is.
As someone who lives in the NYC metro, it's funny that a few cities never seem to be noticed: New Rochelle, White Plains, and Yonkers. All three are walkable and bikeable with transit running right through their downtowns (Metro-North) with Yonkers being served by 7 stations on 2 separate lines. Not only that but frequent bus service runs in all these cities too.
MNR is definitely not on the same level as a proper metro system like the cities in this list have though.
I agree that those "suburban" cities mentioned do punch above their weight as far as urban density and convenient public transit are concerned, but it must be recognized that Metro-North and the Bee-Line are a very different kind of animal to genuine rapid transit. It is interesting to note that, historically, plans have been floated by various parties since the inception of the NYC Subway for the extension of rapid transit into Westchester localities on the city line, like Mount Vernon and Yonkers. Unfortunately, the huge political kerfuffle that would inevitably come of such extension schemes never fails to preemptively kill them off before any serious groundwork is undertaken.
@username username good point. MNR is a "proper" railroad.
That’s true
I lived carless in Boston for over a decade, and hardly noticed a difference when I went to Cambridge, Somerville, or Brookline. That combination really felt like one decent size city, not one small city with three suburbs next door. In fact, a lot of people called Cambridge & Somerville "Camberville" because no one really knew where one started and one ended. On the other hand, Natick (where I worked) definitely felt like a suburb when I went out there. Amazing what having good rail transit will do.
it’s really tragic what route 9 did to the framingham/natick area
tons of potential for a lovely little place just robbed from it
you can see some really big potential in areas like downtown framingham in particular
If you're poor you can tell the difference because Brookline cops.
And to the northwest, Woburn is Stroad Central, with Burlington close behind.
Boston transit is very much a hub and spoke system. If you're going along a spoke, transit is excellent, but it's hard to go from one spoke to another without a car. Try going from Bedford to Newton ... it's easiest to go into Boston, then back out again.
Can confirm, Camberville is still a thing. Interestingly, both Somerville (at 18,431.6 people/sq. mi.) and Cambridge (at 16,354.9 people/sq. mi.) are denser than Boston itself, which only has 13,321.0 people/sq. mi.
@@indigosleeper Im from a town pretty close to Route 9 in Southborough/Westborough, and driving in that area pisses me off on a chemical level
Having visited Southern California recently, I can confirm that it's a place that has never fully let go of the 1970s.
As having just came back from San Diego, it's wild to me that a place with that much natural beauty and great weather is so oriented around cars and sprawl development.
@@g0g0sag0 I always think it's a crime against humanity that SoCal is so car-dependent. It literally has the PERFECT weather almost year-round for walkability.
It sucks that the most walkable-weather cities were developed during the new automobile-era, cuz otherwise you’d have more SF-style density with the beauty of an SD/LA. Tbf San Diego is crossable in 10min like San Fran, but the suburban ring around that goes on for ever (which throws off the numbers).
@@g0g0sag0 NIYMB's fight every bike lane, even a painted bike gutter. They also are against any higher density housing.
A guy running for city council in Thousand Oaks said at a debate “look I bought my 4 bed 3 bath house here in ‘71 for $30,000!” I wanted to punch him. He lost the vote. Waiting for old people to die so their houses go on the market. They bought and never sold.
Just moved to Somerville from Colorado Springs a few months ago and it is an incredible place. Access is unreal. We live a two minute walk from Porter Square which you showed twice in the video! As a CO native I never really wanted to move east at all, but we have really fallen in love with Somervill, Boston, and New England in general!
I knew Evanston would be on this list. As a native Chicagoan who's spent time in Evanston and Oak Park, I would have considered them roughly equal, but you brought up a great point about the university. That probably is the biggest difference between the two places.
It’s funny because my brother went to school in Evanston in the late 80’s, and since that time Oak Park and Evanston have mostly just folded into the city. Unless your downtown driving out, those two places are just the city.
@@crashingatom6755 great point! I married a Northwestern alum and we went to visit Chicago and Evanston last year for my first time seeing either place, and it does feel more continuous, like you get off the El station and it still feels much like a part of the Chicago metro but everything is purple.
I just went to Evanston today and it feels like another Chicago neighborhood. You got the purple line and metra UP north, plus Northwestern uni there.
Oak Park is unfortunately getting really surrounded by crime. There’s still the old money there, but the area’s going to the birds a bit and I’m so puzzled how it happened!
@@MaurickSh how is it surrounded? I know Austin is pretty bad, but I've heard Berwyn is getting better. I also know Maywood doesn't have the best reputation, but it's a suburb removed from Oak Park. What has changed in Oak Park compared to 20 years ago?
Moving to Evanston is actually what sparked my interest in urban planning and development. I moved here after being born and raised in a very rural area and a stopover for 5 years in a typical sprawl suburb in the Chicagoland and the accessibility to everything here has literally been life changing.
Love to hear it
Living on the very border between lovely Evanston and relatively typical Skokie, every day is a lesson in urban planning. Hah!
I like how three of Chicago’s suburbs are mentioned in this video. Im kinda surprised that Cicero is mentioned too, but don’t move to cicero though I guess.
I live right next to Evanston (bike to downtown within 10 minutes) and I literally love it. I’m strongly considering living there post college
Go Cats!
“I can imagine a different set of criteria that would have just turned this into a list of New Jersey suburbs, honestly, but who wants to see that?”
Me. I do. The more NJ content the better. We deserve some appreciation for all the crap we get from other states.
Your subtle humor is incredible sir. I love your videos and vibe!!!
I currently live in Arlington VA and have lived in Cambridge MA (and Belmont MA which is adjacent to Cambridge). Having also lived in more “traditional” suburbs in Ohio, I agree these “suburbs” have much more of a city vibe. They always felt much more urban to me and I considered living in these places as living in the city. In Cambridge I didn’t have a car and when I moved to Arlington from Ohio 6 years ago, I downsized to one car which I only use on average about once a week. Access to public transit in these areas is incredible and walkability is off the charts. I think of myself as a city girl at heart.
Arlington, Va, is not a single suburb by any measure. It's a county with several hight density conglomerates (Rosslyn, Pentagon City, Ballston, Court House, Crystal City, Clarendon, etc.) around each one of its Metro stations. It even includes a huge airport and a huge National cemetery. Well, suburb or not suburb. it's a very nice area to live in.
Brookline had the opportunity to be absorbed into the core city but voted against it in the late 19th century. I think this was one of the earlier examples of a wealthy independent municipality rebuffing urbanization. While Brookline is relatively dense, other wealthy suburbs immediately adjacent to Boston have specifically fought against having the T extended into their territory.
Oak 0ark near Chicago did the same thing. Chicago stopped growing when the surrounding suburbs said no.
Looking at you, Merlose
One such example being Arlington, just out past Cambridge/Somerville, which had right-of-way secured for the Red Line, but that right-of-way is now just a long bike path
Yeah, stuff like this is why I mentioned the idea of including diversity metrics in my scoring (but I didn't do it) -- not because I wanted to be "woke" or whatever, but because racial and socioeconomic diversity are simply part of what makes a great city. I'll go back at some point and do a different take on suburbs -- the "why" of them, etc
Why do suburbs fight against having efficient infrastructure built in their districts? So frustrating that people somehow think trains will ruin their communities while they force everyone else to deal with their cars.
I live in Evanston and get around car-free using the Purple Line and the bike lanes. Massive expansion of bike infrastructure planned. Also there are lots of new residential developments both midrise and highrise being constructed. Proximity to the lakeshore parks and beaches also a huge asset. Pretty much the ideal for what an American suburb should strive to be, in my view.
I wish they would put a dedicated bike lane along Chicago Ave that connects to RP at Howard. LSD could also use a bike lane.
Dedicated bike lane on Chicago to Howard is coming soon!
@@Ed-en5yr I agree. They expect you to use the side roads, which just means speed bumps and the roughest of roads, such a joy. Or you can use Loyola Park for a portion of it…if you are okay with almost hitting pedestrians every 20 seconds during the summer and almost wiping out bc of the ice during the winter.
Every time I drive up there from Chicago i notice how much smaller and ped-friendly the streets are. And that's compared to Chicago! Also nice to see Oak Park on the honorable mentions.
@@isaiahlabay8818 LSD doenst need a bike lane that’s what the lakefront trail is
Thanks for always trying to include all of North America!
It’s really nice to see Massachusetts on here. I actually live in a street car suburb myself but in Western Massachusetts. Eastern MA often times overshadows us but western MA also developed before cars and we do have a lot of compact and walkable infrastructure as well. Western MA has dense urban urban living, older inner ring suburbs, dense town centers, and compact college towns.
I loved living in western MA! Beautiful downtowns and kind people.
Greenfield could be awesome if it came back to life
Northampton and Easthampton are awesome towns. Lots of character and things to do!
Virginia has a unique system where cities are not part of counties, they are exclusive. An old colonial relic of shires vs cities. The area you focused on is Rosslyn, but the entire region has really urbanized along the Orange-Silver and Yellow-Blue lines. This includes Ballston, Clarendon, and Crystal City. Still a lot of room to improve since NoVa is still very car centric.
Cities in VA can be independent from counties, but they're not all like that. Also Arlington is technically a County.
true, but with the expansion of the silver line, and the new apartment buildings around herndon and reston, nova is improving a lot. As someone who uses the silver line to get to work, one thing that would really help is turning one of the lanes on reston parkway into a dedicated bus lane, or even better, adding a bus only route to get to the metro stations we have. Cuz right now, I still have to drive to the metro station to take the train, which i admit beats driving the whole way. The 15 minute interval between trains isn't great either. Ideally it should be 5 but i'll be happy if they cut it down to 8
Arlington County and neighboring Alexandria is a relic of when the DC area was bigger and happened to include both sides of the Potomac. The citizens of the Virginia side didn't like that nothing was being done with the land that got ceded and that they lost their representation, so they voted to petition Virginia and the federal government to gave the Virginia side back to Virginia. Not sure what to do with the areas, Virginia made Alexandria into an independent city and the remaining portion of the county was renamed Arlington County in 1920.
@@bugno9969 There are no cities that are in counties in VA. It's literally not allowed by state code.
The areas just outside of DC are a bit odd as well because of the severe hight restrictions in DC. There is no real downtown DC. That pushes much of the "urban" development into Virginia and Maryland. Unfortunately the cost of living in Arlington and Alexandria areas is crazy high...so I live in the car dependant land of sprawl that is Loudoun County!
Always happy to see BC / Vancouver making the mark! New West has had a ton of new development in the past decade, which revamped it from an "uhh I don't know about that" place to a "I'd love to buy a condo there" suburb. Lots of demand, great waterfront. One stop on the skytrain is seemingly "inside" a mall / shopping district and has a super cool feel to it.
This video is FANTASTIC! Thank you!
Great video, as per usual
Would love to see a video from you defining commonly used terms in urbanist discourse, tailored to the noob.
"Urban fabric" "walk score", etc.
I think it would help people gain a better entry to understanding the concepts.
Thanks for making this content!
Also selfishly I'd like you to talk about Cincinnat/NKY as often as it's relevant.. lol
As a native New Jerseyan, please, make a whole 20 minute video about how awesome New Jersey is and go into great detail about everything great about it and why the other 49 states are jealous.
Do you run the New Jersey twitter account
@@CityNerd I don't but I think I should.
This other guy did something on that state: th-cam.com/video/MgaNb5Kayq0/w-d-xo.html
@@CityNerd c'mon....Jersey city is it's own city, and Hoboken is perhaps a suburb - but Montclair, Summit, Short hills, Morristown, Westfield, and Ridgewood are the creme of the NJ suburbs!
Acting like New Jersey doesn't have suburbs.
Thanks for including Arlington, VA. Have lived car free here for 5 years and love it!
Just found your channel, and I love the content! There is something about the almost listless delivery you have in subjects you are clearly very passionate about that hits the spot. Especially the way you said casually "I'm actually living in a suburb because i'm a masochist" as a normal part of the ongoing sentence, is something that tickles my sense of ironical and laconic sense of humor where the joke does not need to be emphasized. Instantly subscribed, and a binge watching marathon awaits!
As someone from Vancouver who lives in the Bay Area, it was 1. awesome to see New West on the list (and also awesome that you pronounced Westminster correctly!), and 2. painful to feel the number of digs about transit planning in the Bay Area. It's totally on point, but man, it's frustrating. I'm still waiting for the day when there are 10 minute (or less!) headways on Caltrain.
As a New Jersey resident I am very proud we have the whole area near Newark, Hoboken and Jersey City.
As kids, we'd spend part of the summer in Hoboken at my grandmother's. She lived in a ground floor apartment on Washington St. Hoboken was (and is) a gem. I believe it also holds the distinction of boasting the lowest car ownership per capita of any American location. That's because public transit options there are fantastic.
There's a lot more, too -- great towns with train AND bus connections into Newark and NY!
@@CityNerd time for an NJ suburb collab with Alan Fisher
Also because there’s no parking lol
Evanston is terrific. I lived there for many years. It’s an oasis. And unless for some reason you need to get around the other Chicago suburbs you can live comfortably car free. Evanston also consciously tried to develop housing around the transit stops precisely to make car free living possible. Awesome farmers market too. Better than Chicago.
Great mention on Tlaquepaque!! It’s a great place and that walk score is deserved
Hoboken resident here! Absolutely love this towns walkability, restaurants, parks and mass transit infrastructure. Unfortunately, rent has been sharply rising post-COVID, so we'll see how much longer it is affordable for people who don't work in finance lol
Berkeley is about to change dramatically. North Berkeley and Ashby Bart stations have massive high rise transit oriented multi family developments planned. San Pablo ave, the second largest commercial district other than downtown, is also receiving a pedestrian oriented redesign (connecting Oakland emeryville and Berkeley) as well as multi family development. Lastly, CA just passed low rise zoning reform, so buildings in commercial districts can now add several stories of residential.
I know! I had to ridicule it while I still could!
@@CityNerd don’t worry there will be plenty to ridicule Berkeley on after they build TOD. You should see the Berkeley NIMBYs going off about it, it’s wild.
@@CityNerd well played!
Long overdue!
I don’t know about massive high rises but each BART station is being planned for over 1,000 units and heights up to 7 stories,. That freaks many of the single family dwelling neighbors. Good urbanist suburbs have good bus networks as well as rail transit, you should talk about the buses too.
Yup, I don't consider Newark to be a suburb either. By the same definition, Jersey City would be a suburb too, but both Newark and Jersey City although being in the NYC metro, are cities on their own with significant amounts of people. They are too urban to be considered suburban imo. My mom's originally from Newark, we lived in Jersey City for a few years, and we're on Long Island now and if you told us Newark is as much of a suburb as Suffolk County, we'd laugh at you. Living in Jersey City, I enjoyed making little trips to Hoboken just to walk around and even go geocaching. It gets points added for me for being the birthplace of Frank Sinatra, and also because they still have the beautiful Hoboken Terminal which has been used in movies like Muppets Take Manhattan and Julie & Julia.
I'm glad Union City is an honorable mention. Union City is considered the Havana on the Hudson because of how culturally Cuban the place is (but unlike Miami Cubans, NY metro Cubans are left-leaning; like myself). So not only is the area perfect for commuting to places like having all those buses that cross through Union City while heading to the Lincoln Tunnel, the Bergenline shuttles that go to Newport mall in Jersey City, and the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail at Bergenline Ave, but is also culturally rich.
Agree! I'd never consider Jersey City to be a suburb. Either way I still agree with all the positive points. It's a fantastic city to live in!
The main reason Jersey City is considered a suburb of NYC is many of its residents work in Manhattan.
Yeah, Jersey City is tough to categorize!
I worked as a census taker in Union City and I think you're still underselling the cultural diversity : still some elderly Italians and Germans from the early immigrant population, some blocks that are almost all Chasidim, the Cubans that set up shop in the 50s and 60s, Salvadorans, Colombians, and other Spanish-speakers who moved in after, and what seems to be a new population of Turks and Jordanians who are spilling over from North Bergen into the north of the city. I moved from Miami-Dade County and when my coworkers asked me where I was going and I said, "Oh, it's a town in New Jersey that I've never heard of called Union City," they all started laughing. They said, "Every Cuban-American knows Union City! Everyone who fled the revolution and didn't go to Miami went there."
The Hudson-Bergen Light Rail seems to be in a rush to get out of Union City and towards wealthier neighborhoods along the Hudson, but you're certainly right about how convenient the buses are.
@@CityNerd I was disappointed in seeing u put jersey city bc that spot could’ve gone to an actually deserving suburb
Super interesting thanks for sharing 👍
I’m from Oak Park and I was thrilled to see the village get a mention in one of your videos! I think it’s really a great neighborhood. So much history, food, and you have three separate rail lines that serve OP. Took the blue line into the city every single day for high school. Would love to hear your thoughts about other Chicago suburbs as well.
Maybe (if you ever need some break-glass-in-case-of-emergency content) you could eventually rank the top 10 most urbanist suburbs/neighborhoods in individual cities across North America.
Agreed. And I find it quaint that it's classified as a"village"😉
@@tomfields3682 same here haha
Lakewood, Ohio is denser than adjacent Cleveland. It's interesting b/c Lakewood was walkable with good transit throughout the 20th Century, and somehow managed to preserve those urbanist traits, while neighboring suburbs like Rocky River turned into hellscapes.
My friend who is a city planner in Cleveland LOVES Lakewood! She always takes me there to hang out when I visit. Good example of a place that feels less dense than a city, but is still walkable and community-oriented.
I wouldn’t go so far as to consider Rocky River hellscape…at least not 100%. It actually has a downtown, though there is a stroad through it :-/ but there are far worse places nearby…like Westlake or North Olmsted…which are far less walkable unless you’re at Crocker Park or maybe Great Northern…sorta kinda.
Lakewood is awesome though…it managed to hang onto its population while Cleveland lost two thirds. Cleveland still has great bones…but they gotta fix their zoning laws so it’s less parking lot and has more ground floor retail when they build these new condos and apartments.
I've lived in Lakewood 20+ years. Very bikeable/walkable. I've been known to go 10-12 consecutive days without driving my car.
Shaker Heights and Buckeye Shaker are also great Cleveland inner ring suburbs that's still served by the original Blue and Green rail lines that built up those suburbs. Home to the second oldest shopping center in America which was planned around the Shaker Square station and continuing the trend of great transit-oriented shopping centers with the recent construction of the Van Aken District around the Van Aken station. All the schools are easily accessible by foot from the rail lines and surrounding neighborhoods. Really rare for suburbs to be like that in the US today.
@@Maznhaden1 yes…Shaker is a great example of a streetcar suburb, where they still have the streetcars. Too bad we don’t still have them in Parma or Lakewood.
Fun fact: New West is actually the oldest city in western Canada. It was established in 1859 which was long before Vancouver (1886).
Also, Burnaby's density away from the Skytrain stations sucks, but it may be the city best served by transit in the lower mainland as it has the Expo line to the south, the Millennium line to the north, and two different rapid bus lines running to UBC and SFU. When a north/south Skytrain line on Willingdon is eventually built Burnaby will have rapid transit coming out of its ears!
Burnaby has really good SkyTrain service, but it's north-south bus routes really suck. The interruptions to the grid system in its roadway network really ruin things.
This is why I support the North Shore to Metrotown alignment over North Shore to Waterfront via Hastings.
A circumfrential link is more needed.
Victoria is actually the oldest place. As it was founded 1843 but didn’t become a city till 1862 new west was founded in 1859 but became a city in 1860. So yes it’s the oldest city, but Victoria as a populated place and new west only beat us by 1 year
New Westminster is definitely the best when it comes to Vancouver suburbs. It's the oldest and blessed with a 19th century tight grid for the most part. However, all of the towers in the flyover shot have been built since the 1980s when the Expo line was brought in. Prior to that most of the density was being built in the Uptown area that's very walkable but without a rapid transit link (bus service is very frequent though). Some other cool points about New West: 1. Highest density of Skytrain stations in Metro Vancouver with 1 per 15,783 residents (Burnaby is 1 per 22,647 residents). && 2. Royal Columbian is the only Hospital in Metro Vancouver connected to the Skytrain network (which is further down the line not shown here), at least until 2026 when the Broadway extension and therefore Oak-VGH station opens.
@@bopete3204 Hasn't a branched line always been the plan, connecting the North Shore to Metrotown via Willingdon and DT Vancouver via Hastings? It doesn't make sense for north shore riders to travel to DT Vancouver through Brentwood or Metrotown.
As someone from Alexandria, I’d like to mention a few things: first, they just got a new bus network last year, which has helped tremendously. It has put 15-minute all day and weekend service on 3 new routes (now a total of 5, 6 if you count Metroway BRT but that has 20 minute off peak headways) with more to come in the future. There are also plans for at least 2 more BRT lines, and a metro station at Potomac Yard to improve connectivity. They do have some car-centric areas like Duke st (which is one of the planned BRT corridors), but I would put them above Arlington. They have a nice historic “Old Town”, which isn’t common in American cities anymore. The only major thing they’re missing that isn’t planned is Metro along I-395, and a better bike network. It’s a shame the people there aren’t exactly the nicest, as it is a great place to live
I’m in Alx now, you’re definitely spot on about Duke st. But as you noted, we’re working on it! Excited to see what happens with the BRT plans
One major failure for Alexandria IMO is the school system though. We're talking $1mm homes now with schools rated 2/10 compared to Arlington and Falls Church City that have like 9/10 schools.
yea i gotta say i just moved to alexandria from gaithersburg about a month ago and honestly the people here arnt the best which to be fair fits the DMV populous stereotype. Just which that wasn’t the case because the infrastructure and overall quality of life here is so good. Especially when comparing prices from Moco to here
I am a bit confused, Do Americans use the term (metro) and not (underground)?. Sorry if it is not sor urbanistic question
Thank you for this. Trying to decide where to move next and saving this video for some possibilities
interesting questions raised around qualifications for "suburb" -- as an Oakland resident, it's absolutely true that many people live in oakland (and bordering cities Berkeley and San Leandro, and beyond) and experience it primarily as a suburb of San Francisco, where they work and seek entertainment. Nevertheless Oakland has an incredibly strong identity on its own, and many who would call themselves natives would be inclined to punch you at the suggestion that The Town is a suburb of The City. So, good job! ;)
Oakland is not a suburb of SF its definitely its own entity
Definitely agree. I feel as if we could potentially make a rent difference cutoff, but I don’t think of suburbs as necessarily super connected to the main city. Additionally, I think the relationship is more “reliant” than what is shown in the video.
Perhaps there is a disconnect between an image of what a suburb is, and the reality. If you define suburb as a place where people commute from, then yes, Arlington fits the definition, but having skyscrapers in my mind disqualifies you from being a suburb.
They're going to have an identity as a Former Pro Sports town in the near future.
I'm from Long Beach and same. We're both the cities with the port for the bigger neighboring city.
yeah growing up in that area I'm really struggling with the identification of even Berkeley as a suburb. It has a distinct college town identity, areas of both industry and multiple main roads with it's own commerce and business culture. Kensington, El Cerrito, Richmond, sure.
Quick note on the Berkeley BART stations: they're both slated for housing development due to state law. Unfortunately NIMBYs have managed to impose height limits that are the minimum allowed under state law, (7 stories , with up to 12 being permitted under density bonus laws) but the parking lots will be going away. One example of something that might be built on the site might be the buildigs built around the MacArthur BART station next door in Oakland, albeit minus the tower due to height limits.
Great list, CN, thank you! And yes, 5:58 agree that it be useful to maybe at some point when the spirit moves you to re-run your criteria and analysis to factor in affordability, as you did in your best small cities video. Affordability is certainly a key make or break factor for some of us. Thanks!
Was happy to see lots around Boston on the list, another note to add to Somerville MA is that the green like extension is opening on December 12th. You only mentioned the red line and green like D branch but now the E branch will get 5 more stops to tufts
Never ever ever in a million years did I think I'd see my home town (Coquitlam) in a citynerd video. I returned there for about a year in 2021 and I must say contrasting the old built form to the new, they have done a really good job of taking a typical 60s suburb and doing something with it.
I love Evanston so much! I went to school there and really found joy living in a smaller urban environment. I could ride my bike everywhere bc of the plentiful bike lanes and how traffic was yielding and manageable to cyclists, loved walking everywhere in the vibrant yet un-overwhelming downtown, and the great rail connections (with lots of TOD)!
Go Cats! 😊
Wow, Born and raised in Malden! Honerable mention! Thanks for the vid.
Glad my town (Tempe) was an honorable mention. My area is not very walkable, but we have a growing bike network, a great downtown, light rail, a tram, circulator bus routes, and, yes, a large public university campus.
I think if the Southern border of Tempe was Southern it would’ve made the list.
Tempe needs more bike infrastructure and better connectivity between streets but it’s way better than pretty much any other AZ city besides Tucson.
@@danieldaniels7571 Without all the suburb-like houses south of the 60, Tempe would seem more like a dense city than Phoenix or Mesa does.
as a dc native who goes to college in boston its very nice seeing both my cities in the (good) top 10 lists :)
graduating this summer and this is exactly the video is was looking for to help me do and my jobs search outside of areas that j know. appreciate it greatly
so happy to see the vancouver suburbs on the list!
I would love to see a top urbanist college towns list, since I live in a pretty good one right now (Boulder, Colorado). College towns tend to be the most walkable and bikeable small-to-medium size cities in their regions, so you're already narrowing things down to a pretty fun pool of cities to look at. Perhaps you could also include how well the cities integrate the university into their urban fabric as a criteria?
Boston would likely be up there since the city not only has the highest concentration of colleges but very much has the feel of an overgrown college town.
@@andremartins7150 western MA has a handful of compact walkable college towns
Love this idea! I love my college town!
it would also be interesting to look at the worst ones too. I would nominate Johnson city TN/ ETSU for example.
Boulder isn’t what it used to be. It used to be a small quaint college town. Now it is surrounded by massive development and really expensive.
interesting thing about LA is that, in many ways, it's an agglomeration of "good suburbs" like Santa Monica, Culver City, and Pasadena. There's no real core to compare it to, and the city proper is itself populated by these neighborhoods which really feel like their own suburban city (Echo Park, Westwood, etc.). It's a blessing (or a silver lining) and a curse. Like you mentioned in your LA video, the skeletal urban fabric is often good especially around the old street car lines. The problem is that they're so spread out from one another. So you have these "good suburbs" that are often quite walkable on their own, but if you ever need to go farther than a couple miles there's just not often a good way to get around unless you're lucky enough that your origin and destination just happen to be near the burgeoning rail network (and even then without transfers, at least until the regional connector comes online). Here's to hoping that the rail network continues to grow rapidly; if it does, then I think a lot of things can come together for LA and it can start feeling like other polycentric megacities that are still well served by extensive transit (e.g. like a London or even a Tokyo)
I live in LA and I think the distances are a big challenge. Even the best subways (I.e. not light grail with at grade crossings) can only cover so much distance. LA needs an RER style network criss crossing the county. Instead we have world record length light rail.
Yeah, light rail just doesn’t fit the style of sprawling city LA is. Light rail is great, if distances aren’t too long and most trips can be made without transferring out of the system. In the core the service can function more like a tram and then speed up heading to less dense areas. But if you’re going to build it fully grade separated with wide stop spacing, don’t build light rail, just build a real metro.
LA would be a perfect case for a Berlin style S-Bahn system. Most people don’t realize this, but Berlin is basically a bunch of cities and towns somewhat randomly declared a city about a century ago. It’s actually a quite comparable size to LA (it doesn’t really have a lot of sizable suburbs though). While there are some dense neighborhoods, there’s also literal farms within city limits. But through the S-Bahn you can still get through most of the city in a reasonable time frame.
@@ficus3929 I mean to be fair, metrolink would be a great inter-urban rail service if it was able to run 15 min headways on a consistent schedule everyday, and had decent transit orient development around each station.
@@ficus3929 yeah, as @coastercrutchfield mentioned, metrolink is kind of the RER equivalent, but it needs to increase its frequency a lot. Also, a huge issue is that the job heavy Westside is not served AT ALL by heavy rail. If you work on the Westside, but live in the true bedroom suburb communities like deep in the SF Valley, you have no real way of getting to work except by car. Like, you could tak metrolink to downtown, then transfer to the red/purple line to 3rd street, then Expo line out to Santa Monica... but, especially with all those transfers and the Expo line being slow around downtown, that can literally be a 2 to 3 hour commute. LA needs to acknowledge that downtown isn't the center of activity anymore, or at least recognize that the Westside needs to serve another hub separate from downtown. Again, purple line extension will help a LOT, but better yet would be a real train station somewhere on the westside. (after all, plenty of cities have multiple train station hubs, e.g. Paris).
During the intro I was thinking about Malden Ma. and then BOOM, you mention it!
I was born and raised in Evanston, love to see it in this video!!! I had a wonderful childhood there, so many days and nights spent biking around with my friends, hanging out in parks or beaches or on NU's campus, playing frisbee and just chilling. There is nothing like Evanston in the summer, those warm sunny days spent under the trees or by the lake. NU's campus is gorgeous, it has great landscaping and its right on the water. Me and my friends called the lakefront part of the campus "the rocks", for the boulders piled up on the waters edge to stop erosion; we spent a lot of time there talking with each other, drinking, people watching etc.. They are still my best friends today, even though we have spread out all over the country and see each other only a couple times a year.
Their names are Emmett, Cole, Marcello, Asconio, Oliver, Gabe, Max, Henri, and 2 Wills lol, they made my childhood great, and I love them dearly.
They will always be a part of me, and so will Evanston.
Thanks for including Clayton! I was hoping to see it in the video given how it's serves as a secondary downtown for St. Louis and it's nice to see it get an honorable mention. It's only becoming more urbanized and I think it will break the top 10 soon.
Also a university town like many on the list.
It was walkable from my university! (I like University City too)
@@CityNerd Did you study at WashU/Fontbonne??
As someone from NJ, I was expecting to see at least 4 cities from here make your list. The Boston metro/Massachusetts was very well represented. NJ has great "urban" suburbs! I live all the way down here in the Trenton/Princeton MSA (Central Jersey) which is an anomoly in its own right. It's the only part of New Jersey, other than Atlantic City/Cape May, that is separate from the Philly and NYC metro areas (although it belongs to the NYC CSA). It has basically grown on its own, and suffers from an identity crisis (imo), due to its centrally located proximity to each major city. NJ cities like New Brunswick (RU), Trenton (TESU), Montclair (MSU), Morristown, and Asbury Park would've made great candidates for this list! (All with one-seat rides into midtown (+ service into both NYC and Philly from Trenton)). (When I get around to it) I'll pm you a suggestion that I have. I really hope you'll consider!! NJ won this rightful so! ☺
As someone born and raised in NJ, I agree!!!
I agree with those towns you mentioned, though it should also be noted that much of the newer development in NJ has been in extremely car dependent areas where transit consists of bus stops located at strip mall parking lots.
As he said, it's very possible to imagine this list being all NJ suburbs with a different set of criteria. We really got done in by the 50k+ population requirement, I think, because of our weirdly fractured municipalities. NJ is somehow one of the most urban places in the US while also having very few cities with more than 50k people in them because of how much we split up the town borders.
Several of those don't have enough population, which IMO was not a great constraint to put on this analysis. 50k is too much.
morristown 💪🏽
Hoboken was a surprise to us. Years ago, we took the train to Hoboken and then ferried across the Hudson to Manhattan. Short of money, we returned to Hoboken for dinner and found a lively neighborhood outside the Lackawanna station with (more affordable) delis, restaurants and a sunset view of the NYC skyline.
It’s fun to see good urban stuff in North America
The green line extension to Tufts in sommerville is opening next week which might impact these ratings. The current line (to union station) also just opened earlier this year. I've ridden it a couple times and it's great! Lots of good restaurants around there.
Long time follower and your channel is one of my favorites. As a resident of Hoboken I’m so happy to see we not only finally made a list but came out on top! I know you defined us as a suburb which is funny because the reason we are here is because we refuse to move to a (more suburban?) suburb. Keep up the excellent content! Recommendation for a video would be where would extending the subway network by a stop or five would have the biggest bang for the buck with respect to some convenience factor. Obviously my Hoboken bias is for another PATH station uptown (or even midtown) even though we are transit spoiled. Thanks!
Happy to see Tempe got the honorable mention! I live and go to school for urban planning here and It has a very long way to go but has great potential to be a dense and human scaled city.
I live right near Evanston IL and was hoping for it to be on here! Amazing suburb!
As someone who lives two blocks from the Grove Street PATH stop in Jersey City, I like to indulge in the summer and commute to Manhattan via the ferry system at Paulus Hook. I know you've mentioned NY's ferry system in previous videos but I'm surprised you didn't say the positives about it in this one.
My video on ferries got so little love, I'm afraid to say anything about boats every again
Wow, so happy to see my native Boston area and my current Vancouver area do so well on this list! 😍
You are spot on about Evanston,IL. Phenomenal suburb. Use to live just north of it in Wilmette,IL.
Same goes for Tempe,AZ where I live just east of.
I love your videos...it would be interesting to talk about all the Rust Belt cities and the good things going on in them....how they are reinventing themselves.
Wake up babe new City Nerd dropped
"Uh, go knock yourself out. I'm going back to bed with my boyfriend. And next time knock!"
VIDEO IDEA: I live in a pretty car centric city (just outside the city actually, in one of the suburbs). And I would love to see a video of best improved cities of the last few decades and how they did it, maybe with some advice on how we can do it.
Phenomenal idea! Would love examples of how cities can improve
Wow- my dad grew up in Tlaquepaque! I’ve got to go back. Love your videos 🤩
Love your channel, love how you present the material, you’re so dry, I’m parched after watching this. Deadpan doesn’t begin to describe your unique style, don’t go changin’.
Ridgewood, NJ has a beautiful downtown area with a double island platform regularly served by New Jersey Transit. However outside of the downtown, the density drops off dramatically
I know you didn't give any bus points to Jersey City, but having lived there for a few years, Jersey City gets points added for the Journal Square Transportation Center. When living in The Heights, taking NJ Transit's 84 or 87 which showed up about every 15 minutes to Journal Square was always convenient whether it's to take the PATH into the city or to connect to the 440 Shopper to go shopping at Hudson Mall or the former K-mart at Stadium Plaza which the 440 Shopper bus also stops at. Plus the design of the transportation center is efficient as it's a simple Brutalist design with four lanes just for buses, and has a Jackie Robinson statue at the front to symbolize the fact Jackie Robinson made his organized baseball debut in Jersey City.
I used to go visit a vendor around 15 minutes walk from journal square and the first time I was there I was shocked how much better than NYC it looked
Il lavoro che stai facendo è cultura significativa. Grazie!
I've lived in 4 of the suburbs on your list. There is a lot to be said for living in these inner ring suburbs, and I enjoyed living in all of them. As you say, density, walkability, and easy access to the big city neighbor via transit are huge pluses. The Boston area and much of the north east and east coast are unique since they were part of the original colonies and developed prior to the Northwest Ordinance of 1787 that set forth the grid street layout of the US territories. The density and crazy streets of Boston were laid out more akin to European cities. I have a hard time thinking of Jersey City as a suburb as it's a pretty large city (almost 250-300K residents) and super dense. So it's more like a Fort Worth or an Oakland. At the same time, it's true there are fair number of commuters into the city. Probably too small to meet your 50,000 resident cut off, but a place like Montclair NJ is a pretty great suburb. There are a large number of suburbs that grew up along the various NJ rail lines and have decent density near the train stops. I suppose are smaller than your cutoff though.
I spit my tea out when I saw both my home cities labeled as the top 3 “suburbs.” Calling Jersey City or Hoboken a suburb around these parts will evoke a surprised and perplexed reaction from natives here.
That's really funny
But it is a suburb is of New York City. It’s part of the New York City Metropolitan area. Tons of people from there travel to the city for work everyday. That’s why it’s a suburban city.
Hi from Arlington! We’re a county with no incorporated municipalities. It’s weird, but it works. We’re governed by the county board, who are responsible for things like amenities , roads, and zoning, and we have a county police and fire department. It essentially functions as a city but with the governmental framework of a county.
Crystal City/Pentagon City are also really great neighborhoods.
I would definitely like to see a more specific kind of video like you mentioned about suburbs
You nailed it Nerd , I went to school in Brookline Mass , it's a good example of suburban walkability Tempe and Malden Mass , as well as Santa Monica .
Santa Monica is lovely, but definitely not a suburb of Los Angeles. Maybe a neighborhood? By the same token, IMO, Brookline and Cambridge cannot be called suburbs of Boston.
Ive been to Hoboken, and it so awesome, felt like i was in Europe. Though, transit service is a bit low considering NYC is right around the corner. This does make you walk all over the place however, which is a good thing!
one of the best streets there in my opinion is Sinatra Dr, really well built.
this is how its done! I think more people need to see Hoboken for what its worth and implement those practices throughout the usa.
also side tangent, I love how when I searched up Hoboken's bike lanes, there was an article that was completely amazed that they haven't had a traffic death in over 4 years ( like, read the room, its Hoboken, they build good pedestrian infrastructure, bike lanes and protected sidewalks.)
Yes, I've heard this about the record on fatalities and now I wish I'd mentioned it!
Transit service is "low"? LOL It has Hoboken Terminal with 3 NJT rail lines, PATH and ferry service on top of the HBLR and bus service.
@@ASQ1Fan yes, yes.... but in the past, it was covered with streetcars, and do I have to mention the only way to take "transit" to Stevens U is with the bus? There is also lots of places in Hoboken that would benefit from more rail. Like if you lived in the 14th st. area for example, and you wanted to go to, Staten island to see a ball game. (this scenario you have no car, transit only) Right now, you'd have to either walk to Lincoln Harbor or ninth / congress, then, take the HBLR to 8th street, then find bus to the ball park, Or , you can take the bus from the get go and inevitably get stuck in traffic. But if more rail investment occurred, 14th street can get a HBLR station, HBLR can be extended to Staten Island, and suddenly this weird scenario of you walking to take a train then to take a bus, or just taking a long bus ride, would turn into a one seat ride! See what I mean?
I would like to see more rail investment in the area, because compared to NYC, Hoboken and others (like JC, UC, Cliffside Park, Fairview, Guttenberg, West New York, etc.)
are underserved and thats really sad to see. Although, Hoboken has it easy, other US city aren't as fortunate.
@@ASQ1Fan oh and one more thing.....
Hoboken Terminal is served by NJT, who have hiked fares drastically upwards for they're commuter rail services, and not to mention, most of their lines are unreliable, hourly services! Yes, it may be an illusion of, WOW! Hoboken has great commuter rail when walking into the terminal, but that though comes all crashing down when you realize 2 of those 15 trains you saw go to Spring Valley, and a another 2 go to Hackettstown, and so forth. Basically, your down to about 2 train per hour per LINE! and guess what that means,
"oh god, I just missed the 2:01 from here (random station like, Towaco, for ex.) to Hoboken, now I have to wait for an hour!"
the problem isn't the amount of service, but the frequency.
@@The4905 what most people living in Hoboken care about it being able to go to NYC and around Hudson County. Transit here is brilliant for that. I get to Midtown Manhattan faster than almost anybody I work with who lives in NYC. Agree that NJTransit system is in rough shape, but I rarely use from Hoboken, more from Penn.
as someone from the boston area, when i think about the practical borders of the city, and not the legal ones, i think of the 128 (I-95) belt. basically everything inside that is the city to me, though it gets weird up by lynn
I think most Bostonians see Brookline, Somerville, and Cambridge as being part of the core with the possible addition of Chelsea too. Quincy, Needham, Newton, Watertown, Winthrop, Arlington, etc. are what most people see as the first ring of suburbs.
Yoooo Repping from New Westminster! Only spot I'd note is that while skytrain does run through downtown, it totally skips uptown (accessible by bus, every 10 to 15 mins) and queensborough (also bus accessible, but only a single bridge to access it that often ends up jammed in traffic). It would be less of an issue except that most of New West sits on the side of a not insignificant hill, and the main two skytrain stations are at the bottom of it. But we can't have everything!
Recent subscriber, you got some good stuff going on here. Keep it up and give me more ideas of places to move :D
This is your most hopeful video yet, as a Tokyoite looking to move back to the US at some point.
Somerville is an extremely urban suburb of Boston, to the point that it's really a bona-fide city in its own right. Very dense housing, consisting of many triple-decker homes, and some two-family ones, too. Brookline is a wealthy suburb of Boston, but blends in so well with Boston that you can't really determine a dividing line.
Cambridge speaks for itself.
Another plus for somerville, the green line extension is opening in 5 days!
As someone who lives out on the far reaches of the Massachusetts commuter rail, I would never considerer any of the cites that bouder Boston to be suburbs. Differently a difference in definitions of what suburbs are because I look at places with this kind of density as just urban.
Somerville could've been it's own talking point, where 97% of all residential housing that currently exists could not be built today, due to the zoning regulations. That
only changed 2 years ago, right around pandemic, where the zoning laws were finally updated to actually match the existing residential buildings.
I understand not including Regional Rail in your metrics, but a couple of Philly suburbs that I would definitely consider honorable mentions are Ardmore and Narberth PA. Both are on the "Main Line" (technically the Paoli/Thorndale Line) and while most communities on the line are definitely upper-class and car-centric, these two are notable exceptions. They're very dense, walkable and pedestrian-friendly, and not overrun by surface parking. Even though SEPTA could certainly use better headways (which is being seriously discussed finally), these are 2 areas that you could still very well get around without a car.
I'd also mention Collingswood and Haddonfield on the Jersey side of the river, both easily accessible to with 24-hr PATCO service (arguably more accessible than SEPTA's Regional Rail communities) and both have walkable business districts. But like the East Bay and BART, they're still married by the 60s/70s decisions of massive surface parking around the stations themselves.
It seems like he chose places with strong anchors be they universities or business districts.
Ardmore and Collingswood has everything except those things. They are nice streetcar suburbs but don’t have that strong sense of place; they are simply great neighborhoods.
Conoshocken on the other hand is legit.
Thank you for recognizing New Westminster!
I live in Henderson, NV! The interesting thing is it is generally highly rated as a suburb, especially in terms of parks and low crime levels. Henderson is rebuilding its downtown area on Water Street although it's not happening as fast as I would like mostly due to the pandemic and its after effects. I certainly think the public transit could be much improved and hopefully will be in the not too distant future. Thank you for this very interesting, informative, and enjoyable video!
Born & raised in Evanston, and boy I don’t take that for granted. My big culture shock when I went to college in Des Moines, Iowa was sort of the opposite of what I imagine most people’s is. Evanston is a truly integrated bubble, and I realize now how friendly it was for teen me to get around more or less on my own.
Didn’t realize Vancouver had great suburbs like that. My dream city!!
As someone who has lived in Cambridge and spent a lot of time in Hoboken, they truly are wonderful "suburbs" to be in. They just feel like extensions of the city, which if you stop and think about it makes perfect sense given that is the fundamental socioeconomic function of a suburb in the first place! I would love to see a top 10 video where you do "small city" metro areas (say b/t 500k and 1M metro population) that have great urbanism.
Hoboken/JC are the sixth borough. Other than the political inability to combine the two cities with NYC, they area really just more a part of NYC than Staten Island. This video needed a criteria against cities that are independent from the CBD for purely political reasons. I was thinking suburbs es more like White Plains, and New Rochelle. JC, Arlington and Cambridge literally boarder a CDB of a major city, and JC's Exchange Place is in many ways just an extension of Wall Street.
I was so pleased that Clayton was mentioned in this video!! Clayton is basically St. Louis' second downtown area. University City would have been another good option, the Loop in U City is recognized as one of America's best streets in terms of urban planning. Both are on metro lines that travel into St. Louis City and are dense and walkable too. Though I guess neither technically qualify by virtue of population, neither is above 50,000 because there are so many dang municipalities in STL that divide individual populations into smaller separate areas.
STL definitely suffers from some of the weird municipality boundary issues that Boston does, where only a small percentage of the larger metro is technically STL proper.
13:43 timestamp for Clayton, MO
“White people’s downtown” is Clayton.
I would like to have seen a mention of North Vancouver. It doesn't have train service (it's across the harbour from Vancouver), but the ferry runs every 15 minutes through the day and there's lots of bus & express bus service. But what's best is a compact core with full services, a great main shopping street, an arts & entertainment district, plus it's very walk-and-bike-able. A great small city.
I totally agree, one of my favorite suburban city from across all Canada. Has its own walkable downtown (lower lonsdale), market, walkable grocery/cafe and great transit to downtown by sea bus.
Good piece by CBC Vancouver on the success of the Shipyards District in North Vancouver. It’s become a public space destination within the Greater Vancouver area and residential development around it is impressive. The only attraction they fail to mention is a major concentration of craft beer producers. 😊
th-cam.com/video/IP9kGS2Wiqg/w-d-xo.html
Great Video! As a German this Video is really interesting to me as it shows what American cities and suburbs could be like outside of the car centric stereotype! I’d be really interested in a video about analyzing American transit lines and their efficiency as I’ve heard multiple times that even cities with supposedly amazing transit like New York City and Chicago are still very inefficient compared to European or Asian cities.
The NYC subway is very efficient with quad tracking w local and express idk what you mean
@@thh982- he means Metro. The LIRR, MetroNorth, NJTransit. He means rail links to airport terminals. He means having to go to Manhattan to get from one part of Brooklyn to another by Subway. Have I scratched the surface?
yeah i live in the dc area and the metro here functions (when i lived in dc proper i actually really enjoyed taking the bus), but i've also spent a fair amount of time in seoul and busan, south korea, and their transit really puts us to shame. like really and truly it is a whole other world over there.
Even Canada can shame NYC let alone anywhere else in the US in some ways, particularly off-peak headways. As the video noted, SkyTrain's trunk lines don't go lower than every 5 minutes, even on weekend nights. Similarly the main Montreal lines just run every 6 minutes, all the time, I think Toronto too. (Secondary lines can be 15 minutes in Vancouver and 10 in Montreal, though.)
I believe one big difference between the US and Europe is off-peak frequencies; we (US) tend to regard transit as a commuter things, not an all day service.
That said, NYC is very rare in having some 24/7 train service, even at 3 AM. Chicago has a few lines with that, though not all of them. Even Tokyo doesn't have overnight metro.
People just can't help but take swipes at the US 🙄
You can even see the tent cities around the BART stations from space. Nice work, Bay Area!
OH MY GOD!!! I’m a student at Agnes Scott, a tiny women’s college in Decatur and was just thinking Decatur would be perfect for this list! I audibly gasped when we made “honorable mention.” Thank you for including our beautiful city🥹💗
Off topic. I noticed buses in the US have bike racks in the front, but in Europe most buses don't have bike racks except the long distance coach buses. I wonder if you think it's a good idea to have them or not.
Arlington has its boundary because it used to be part of the District of Columbia. At some point it was “retroceded” back to Virginia and became Alexandria County. After the City of Alexandria was formed the name was changed to Arlington County to avoid confusion.
We won't bend anyone's mind with the facy that there is a James City County in Virginia, whos seat is the independent City of Williamsburg. Or Charles City County outside of Richmond....
@@stevevarholy2011 VA divisions and subdivisions are a mess.
Ardmore, Pennsylvania, Merion, Pennsylvania , or really just the entire main line suburb out of Philadelphia should have been on this list. Great video! Thanks for posting and happy New Year!
heck yeah, thanks for the wins, come on by to JC and Hoboken anytime!
Brookline is kinda weird considering its basically Boston but there is still a noticeable difference in the scale of urban qualities. Boston was always allowed to build whatever housing, transportation projects and amenities it wanted around Allston and the Fenway-Kenmore area, so it leaves Brookline looking like a semi-dense suburban forest amongst all sorts of big city center traits.