Well to add to this comment, it's true that Infiltration doesn't wear head phones, because at one point in the tournament, one of the commentators says that in a match against Daigo, Infiltration would also listen into Daigo's button presses. One reason why Daigo changed to I think it's a Silent Stick, so that you can't hear the button presses or stick movements. Well maybe you can, but it's probably very silent.
(cont...) Infiltration tries to throw ex hado during its recovery frame. It guarantees the ex hado stuffing out Ryu's DP. Do I need to discuss Akuma's Divekick vs Ryu's jump in on wake up? Akuma's has strong setups and Ryu has those safe jump in to throw (that teleport beats out when used ambiguously). How, again, did Daigo beat Infiltration on the winner's final in the 25th Anniv. match? Those Double overhead and Full screen walk up throw? For Infiltration, very strong match-up knowledge.
I remember this match vividly. When was the last time you saw Daigo, in his prime, play that defensively with Ryu AND WITHOUT doing one his patented Ultra combos in the entire match?!
@Distinctlyaveragefan - lol Infiltration is not using a Hori mimi stick or whatever you stated. He is using an Omni Arcade Stick made by his partner 'Laugh's company etokki.com. It is a Korean stick where there is no restricting gate as in a sanwa stick, and the stick returns to neutral faster. I just bought one off him and its sick. I guess if Happs and Sanwa had a child, a Myoungshin, or Crown stick would be it lol
I like how infiltration is using the HORI mini fightstick, the same $40 fightstick that I use, Just goes to show that its not just about your equipment.
Ah you're right, I was thinking more about Momochi, who had a very strong zoning Akuma that gave Daigo alot of trouble in Vanilla. When I say risk I mean in terms of sticking out the low forward on footsies, or jumping over/tatsuing/focusing Infiltration's fireballs occasionally or even Dragon punching some of the dive kicks on your wakeup or even EX Dp the air fb You know that Akuma is looking for the sweep to start the vortex, but you can't let that stop you from mounting an offense.
Ryu has a fundamental weakness no one seems to understand apparently. If you shut down both ryu's low forward and fireball successfully, ryu will struggle during the match. Infiltration only had one plan. Force daigo to the corner, punish either fireball or low forward while in the corner, apply corner mixup/pressure. Along the way, punish any mistakes with max range cr.mk cancels into fireball. (Cont.)
Infiltration not only negates zoning w/ projectiles, but he also baits and punishes c.mk w/ significant frequency. Not to mention, watching the Sako vs Daigo rounds again, he does NOT anticipate and jump in punish Daigos projectiles the same way Infiltration does them. The fact that Daigo has been able to make matches between him and Sako competitive says something, where as Infiltration flat out destroys The Beast.
I think Daigo's time at the top has come and gone, but after all he's achieved you can hardly fault him for it. I hope he continues to compete in tournaments for SFV and beyond.
Honestly, it's easy to read this and think, man, what a stand-up guy, but the only reason why he stayed with Ryu is because he's been using him since vanilla and every time he tried to switch to other characters (Yun), it didn't pan out. All this stuff about expression is moot, Ryu was really good at one point, that's why a lot of people, including Daigo, used him. They recognized his strengths.
Thing is, Vanilla Ryu was without question significantly more powerful then his incarnation in 2012, however Akuma was also even more powerful then his 2012 incarnation. Just that back then, nobody really knew how to play the game yet, until now. If you go back in play Vanilla, Ryu, Gouki, Sagat would be Top-Tier. You're right though, the fact is Infiltration has Daigos number now. Seeing him psychic jump over projectiles and killing Daigo each time is crazy.
this shows that daigo is only human.. thats right huan errors, we remember him because of his "beasty" wins in the past. but folks we cant win all the time. daigo will always be respected for the memorable fights and hard work he have put in for the FG scene. he is no robot, he is just human
His Yun was strong, but he knew something was lacking because he couldn't adapt nearly as well, he simply lacked the experience, but he's a strong player so he could pretty much use anyone and still place highly. As soon as Yun was mildly nerfed, that character was shelved indefinitely. The point is, it's easy to fall back on the "I don't play to win" thing when you haven't been. Young Daigo would look at him sideways for saying that.
Please learn how to read carefully before posting. I never mentioned s.HK anywhere. I'm talking about neutral heavy kick in the air. AKA jump up heavy kick (without jumping back or front). It's an excellent counter to Bison's stomp and no, DPs are not a good counter to the stomp at all, the stomp will almost always beat it out (DPs suck against moves that hit near vertical).
Absolutely, if Gouki gets a hard knock down, you could be looking to get hurt. However if you play right, its not easy for Gouki to get that hard knock down. Hence why I like the way Laugh played vs Infiltration, because he never really gave Gouki that opportunity. That's why it became a battle of attrition which is what it should come down too. Daigo on the other hand plays a bit more offensive then Laugh which favored more into Infiltrations gameplan of countering Ryu.
If its not tier list... why did infiltration used hakan to face or balrog? Akuma has an edge over ryu if both too players are on same level. Daigo has a solid read on tokido because theyve played like.1000 times...
I don't know if I'd necessarily agree with Daigo struggling against Akuma players. The only one whose been able to beat him soundly is Infiltration. Even his matches against Tokido arguably the other elite Gouki player he's won more then he's lost w/ his Ryu. You don't need to take risk w/ Gouki unless your low on health and time. You just need to control the ground game.
Watch the matches again. Sako will have spurts of where he negates projectile zoning, however he not in the same manner as Infiltration. He utilizes Ibukis great poking tools to try and negate Daigo where as Infiltration flat out anticipates and punishes them. Infiltration makes Daigo fearful to even throw Fireballs even in matches that he's winning (not the same for Sako) & even baits him to whiff c.mk for multiple knockdowns.
Sako punishes daigo's fireball game using Ibuki's sweep, the same way Infiltration does with his. Sako destroys Daigo's footsie game in punishing Daigo's whiff normals. If you watch the match, Daigo is always getting cornered when though he was throwing hadoukens. Beating Daigo on the ground as well as ending in a 6 win streak is a blow up. He could not get a sequence of events. There was no crazy screams there and the hype, but again that was a Blow up.
Just you wait, Daigo's going to use Infiltration's strategy and watch videos of Infiltration, and adapt to fighting against his strategy of watching videos of Daigo.
i also want to add this: many pepole say that daigo is not good anymore, if we look away from the akuma matchup and that one game in topanga league vs a goodlike sako on ibuki. he never loose. infiltration counter pick so many times. and everyone knows that yun beats akuma really hard. and daigo was the best yun player as well. but thats why i love daigo, he sticks to his character. he has won everything, but he wants a hype community and thats excatly what we have today thanks to him:)
Again this is speculation, you originally made it sound like he choose ryu because he was strong that maybe true but the question is what now? Ryu is hardly the greatest option and you pointed out that he could play anyone well because he is a good player. Then wouldn't him choosing not to use a higher tier character the very definition of not playing to win? We cant really speculate on what his younger self would say.
The real reasons is that Infiltration beat Daigo out on all facets. He outzoned Daigo, he even out footsied Daigo, and he punished a good majority of Daigos Hadouken attempts. This started to make Daigo hesitant on what he wanted to do and thus why Infiltration was able to dictate so much of the match up, especially those steam rolls that came within some of those sets. At those highest lvls, mental mistakes and hesitations can/will overwhelm you, if your opponent is punishing you accoringly.
Ryu's Ex DP beats Akuma's ex fireball clean. The regular air fireball is against ryu's DP is a trade in ryu's favor. Akuma's DP only overrides ryu's DP in the air at the last hit of the srk. Otherwise the winning DP is dependent on position. There are options selects for ryu that can chase or heavily punish akuma's teleport. Btw Ryu's low forward is no joke and a 250 health diffference can make a big difference sir...
Yes, yes I completely agree with you as said in my last reply. I have conceded my argument. Daigo is better than Infil.10-2 was very one-sided and Daigo won with clairvoyant footsies and smothering pressure that infil admitted himself was "stupendous" by Daigo in an interview. The Beast is back.
Infiltration switched over to Hakan was because he Knew PR Rog didn't know the Hakan match up & that it would throw him off his game (Hakan does not have and advantage over Balrog mind you). PR Rog was reading and countering Infiltrations Gouki. Look at how many times he caught Infiltration w/ FA for Huge Punish and reading his backdashes w/ turn punches into Ultra. Had Infiltration stuck w/ Gouki he would've most likely lost the fight to PR Rog. That's the reason why
his yun was strong getting blown up by pongo doesnt count as not panning out. Ryu being strong in the past is hardly a reason to keep him if the guys has already tried someone else, at this point its hard to tell why he still uses him.
Wow you didn't understand a thing at all. Infiltration's pick on Akuma instead of Ryu, Gouken or Hakan against Daigo matters. Infiltration smart use of fireball destroys Ryu's ground game, whereas the use of different character, using Ryu he knows he'll lose (which has no anti tech against an honest match up). He switches character based on match ups (vs Kazunoko, Popi, etc...). He lost to Tokido on a 5-5 match up consistently. Daigo only used guile once against Mago (that event).
Daigo has to deal tries to block those ambiguous guaranteed demon flip dive kick. Daigo tries to DP punish Akuma's ex air fire ball (with ridiculous stun block) but Akuma takes priority. Daigo challenges Akuma's DP with his own and gets overridden as always. Daigo goes for safe jumps and Akuma just teleports freely. Infiltration has master the tools of Akuma to beat Daigo. Daigo has mastered the tools of Ryu. What does Ryu have advantage over Akuma? cr. mk and just Health?
The real significance here is simple. Infiltration is Reading Daigo like a Free Book. That's a Fact. If you watch here, every single time Daigo tries to throw out a Hadouken, Infiltration already realizes this before hand and is airborne to counter Daigo's spacing. Daigo is playing it "right" correctly, however Infiltration knows Daigos habits and his punishing accordingly. Infiltration has been doing this to Daigo since Evo2k12, 25th Anniversary and now here.
Not exactly, the way Laugh played against Infiltration is a better example of the Ryu vs Gouki match up. In here, Infiltration literally Knew what Daigo was doing before he knew and punished him accordingly.
To sum it up. Infiltration using Akuma does matter. Also in the consistency part Sako vs Daigo, Sako beats Daigo everytime (FT10 and FT7) recorded in Topanga League's history. But did you also know the 50 matches that they had? it ended 50-27 for Daigo. 50 matches between Infiltration and Daigo will not end up the same at the other sets they had. It's a completely different set. Daigo just proved it by beating Sako.
i think with the buffs given to ryu and the balances daigo will move up again. keep in mind he is using a mid tier character against one of the best in the worlds top top top tier character. and he can still make him sweat
Infiltration Only Counterpicks when the match up is Very Difficult (Yun can destroy Gouki). 98% of the time he utilizes Gouki & the match up between Ryu vs Gouki is not lopsided because Ryu can compete in footsies + he has the better projectile ground game. Ryu also has U1 which can turn the match in a close fight vs Gouki. This match up doesn't heavily favor Gouki But really comes down to who plays better. Infiltration was reading Daigo so well he made it look like a 8-2 matchup.
He has plenty of championships to his name. Hes already proven himself and doesn't need to do it more by winning another championship. Sounds like you didn't watch the video or pay attention to what Seth Killian was saying about Daigo. Even though Daigo isn't playing with only the goal of winning, hes still getting top 8 nearly everywhere he goes since 2009.
Using Akuma doesn't matter in a match up where a fight between Ryu vs Akuma is around a 50-50. Sako losing to Daigo is irrelevant because Sako doesn't Blow Up Daigo's positioning nor does he punish Daigos fireball zoning in the way that Infiltration does. Watch those Daigo vs Sako matchups & you'll see how Sako doesn't consistently keep Daigo out of his comfort zone w/ fireballs and how Daigo can still keep a passive aggressive setup.
That isn't the problem. Daigo was dominating w/ Ryu back in ST and that game has been played for well over a decade, so how is this loss excusable? The fact is, Ryu vs Gouki is actually a 50/50 match up so it'll heavily rely upon who simply plays better within the match up. It's simple, Infiltration has had Daigo's # since Evo2k12 and since. Daigo is going to have to figure out how to outplay Infiltration.
Sako consistently beats daigo in a long set of matches except for that day of FT50. Rewatch that matches again. Sako's clean execution and perfects was so visible ending in 7-3 with a 6 win streak. The fancy ranging Akuma-to-the-back ultra wasn't there, The evo hype and the crowd was definitely not there, but that was a sure Blow Up.
I did forget that, however 11-6 still means Daigo loss 5 more times to Infiltration w/ many of those rounds being steamrolls. The thing is Akuma has Always been this good, and in previous SF4 games, he was Even Better! The difference was, other characters were broken down more so then Akuma was. In Vanilla SF4 "if" we still played that today, Akuma would become the Best character in their and that was when Ryu was at his absolute best.
I don't think it's that. I think the game has changed and Daigo has decided to stay with the character he likes rather than adapt as play styles have changed over time. He said he knows Ryu isn't the best character and he could switch if he wanted to win. He's beyond pushing for win at this point, but I wouldn't say he's lost any ability.
I agree with you...it isn't so much that Gouki is that better than Ryu, its that Daigo is relying too much on Ryu's fireball, DP game. He is trying to make space to fireball but Infiltration is jumping over them and comboing him. Plus he's letting Infiltration out footsie him and put him in the corner which is weird...Daigo isn't playing SF4, he's playing ST style...but that doesn't work with this Ryu..he may have said he wasn't scared to lose, but he definitely wasn't playing to win
I think your point with the reputation is quite good but Infil used akuma because that would be a slap to the fans if he didn't choose him (surely you would've wanted him to pick Akuma in that exhibition too right?) The reason I used rank is because you limited the time frame to NOW only so since the most recent tournament shows Infil placing 4th I think he's better. Again people don't go as hard in exhibition match but Daigo want ssaiyan on that match, earning the title exhiBeast! A compliment!
Yup...Infiltration obviously studied him but Daigo said he'd rather figure how to beat him while playing him. But Daigo has always had trouble with Akuma players. Daigo tries not to play with risk, but against Akuma you need to. He let Infil fireball whenever wherever, no jump ins, no jump in tatsus, no focus and then tried to fight out of the corner...just pure defensive play and that has to lose at this level.
"one of the most powerful tool against balrog is the meteor slide.. it goes right through headbutts, cant counter it even If u know its coming ". seth killian.. do you play ae michael day? or you're just throwing stupid comments?
That was ONE set. During the 90% of the fight, Laugh played it very well. It's just that Infiltration was the Better player. In here Infiltration blew Daigo up so convincingly, while in Laughs case it was incredibly difficult for Infiltration to get in and start a Vortex. When you play it right its not advantageous to Gouki.
Lol, who are you to tell him when to retire? He plays with the character he wants to play with as long as he wants to. He is still the best Ryu player to date and I don't think he plans to change on that.
Infil using Akuma shouldn't matter when the Ryu vs Akuma is around an even match up to where Ryu has the more dominant ground game, while Akuma has the better knock down game due to Vortexes. So this shouldn't even be a reason. The difference is that Infiltration is the Only Player in SF4 to have figured out how to counter Daigo's Hadouken setups. Hes been doing it since Evo2k12 & its glaring he's still doing it even at Evo2k13. Regardless Infil is the better player when the two face off.
It doesn't take skill to throw fireballs and do uppercuts, but it takes skill to throw fireballs and uppercuts at the right time so that your opponent can't take advantage of it. These are the best players in the world, right here. Spamming shit won't work on them.
(Cont.) Think about ryu's problematic match-ups. Bison, adon, dhalism for example; Ryu cannot maximize low forward, fireball as well as he could in let's say a vega match or Dudley match. Shotos actually have an easier time stopping that pressure. Ken's step kick, Akuma's walkspeed, oni's step kick, gouken's and evil ryu's true fireball block strings. Etc.. It's just how it is. Why do you think daigo constantly says "ryu isn't the strongest character." Ryu will always have the fault exploited.
Did anyone else notice that daigo lost the last round same way infiltration lost the first round? I thought it was kind of neat xD. NOTE: Not an ex-fireball but a fireball in general.
Then why did infiltration used ryu against kazunoko yun? And hakan vs pr balrog? He used akuma vs daigo because he knows akuma has an edge.. Infiltration counter picks unlike daigo and tokido... use your head and think a little bit please!!!
He even outfootsied Daigo in this match up, as well as punishing Daigo for throwing projectiles. Infiltration won on the Majority of the match ups, and simply is Reading to the card. He did almost exactly what he did at 25th Anniversary to Daigo. This domination has more to do with Infiltration reading Daigo and punishing for him.
Daigo is a beast, but people need to accept the fact that infiltration is the better player. My top 5 is: 1. Infiltration 2. Daigo 3. Xian 4. Tokido 5. Pr balrog
He said that straight forward skill is required to WIN, not to do specials. Everyone knows that it's easy to do the input for Hadouken, Shoryuken, Tatsumaki and so on. By your logic, someone like Cammy or Akuma would be the easiest street fighter character, not Ryu.
(part4)characters e.g. Rose, Ibuki, Ken, Ryu (which you can find footage on youtube) I don’t think he really prepared for the exhibition match. See I think Daigo won because he was at 110% that day kudos to Daigo credits to him, he did it well and he won that set dominantly but I think infil was at only 80% that day. 1st to infil it’s just an exhibition 2nd you could see him cooling himself off with the water bottle constantly so he physically wasn’t feeling tip-top,3rd he had no good Ryu
(cont...) The point of it all (the conversation as a whole) is that the match-ups do matter. You'll rarely see Infiltration NOT counterpick unless he is restricted on using only 1 character. Infiltration uses the best tools that he has to win. That's all there was to it. Saying that using Akuma "doesn't matter"... Do you not get this? For shame, you are I tell you.
![1 Orc vs 7 Computers [4K]](/img/n.gif)
As a person who is fairly new to Street Fighter, it's exciting to see one of Infiltrations combos and be like "I CAN DO THAT ONE"
"daigo with that crazy uppercut".... thats what makes him a great gamer and my favourite just for that simple reason!
Where'd the Bison remark come from? haha
is Matcatz Unveiled bigger event than evo? how much is the winning prize? I think it matters for infiltration performance.
Well to add to this comment, it's true that Infiltration doesn't wear head phones, because at one point in the tournament, one of the commentators says that in a match against Daigo, Infiltration would also listen into Daigo's button presses. One reason why Daigo changed to I think it's a Silent Stick, so that you can't hear the button presses or stick movements. Well maybe you can, but it's probably very silent.
just feel, once you play enough you'll be able to tell when a person is going to be dizzied
Is there a way to see when someone is close to "dizzy" ? or do you just feel ?
(cont...) Infiltration tries to throw ex hado during its recovery frame. It guarantees the ex hado stuffing out Ryu's DP. Do I need to discuss Akuma's Divekick vs Ryu's jump in on wake up? Akuma's has strong setups and Ryu has those safe jump in to throw (that teleport beats out when used ambiguously). How, again, did Daigo beat Infiltration on the winner's final in the 25th Anniv. match? Those Double overhead and Full screen walk up throw? For Infiltration, very strong match-up knowledge.
I missed the live stream. Does anyone know who Daigo lost to before Infiltration to be put in losers bracket?
I remember this match vividly. When was the last time you saw Daigo, in his prime, play that defensively with Ryu AND WITHOUT doing one his patented Ultra combos in the entire match?!
@Distinctlyaveragefan - lol Infiltration is not using a Hori mimi stick or whatever you stated. He is using an Omni Arcade Stick made by his partner 'Laugh's company etokki.com. It is a Korean stick where there is no restricting gate as in a sanwa stick, and the stick returns to neutral faster. I just bought one off him and its sick. I guess if Happs and Sanwa had a child, a Myoungshin, or Crown stick would be it lol
This was a crazy intense match, these 2 are on a different level and you know Daigo was an inch away from winning. The Beast will be back
during the madcatz tourney right? lol
Why do they have to sit right next to each other at evo? I'm pretty sure it's the only big tourny they do that at
I like how infiltration is using the HORI mini fightstick, the same $40 fightstick that I use, Just goes to show that its not just about your equipment.
When did Infiltration beat Tokido ever in AE 2012?
Ah you're right, I was thinking more about Momochi, who had a very strong zoning Akuma that gave Daigo alot of trouble in Vanilla.
When I say risk I mean in terms of sticking out the low forward on footsies, or jumping over/tatsuing/focusing Infiltration's fireballs occasionally or even Dragon punching some of the dive kicks on your wakeup or even EX Dp the air fb
You know that Akuma is looking for the sweep to start the vortex, but you can't let that stop you from mounting an offense.
explain why he used hakan vs balrog? tokido destroy pr rog with akuma no?
Why didn't you switch Ryu to Yun man, why??
I don't think Yun would have made a difference. Did you see what he did to Kazunoko?
I am still amazed that akumas sweep is safe on block. I reckon that might change in ultra edition
When I saw Daigo play Tokido, I knew he wasn't ready for Infiltration.
"hakan is a hard counter to balrog" james chen... do you play ae?
That ex-airfireball in the corner was used so well by Infiltration. Daigo must have eaten that five or six times!
I wonder how much of that is due to side-by-side play. I'd like to see them play a FT10 set head-to-head.
Is crouch strong into st.fierce a 1 framer?
No, 2 frames
HittokiriBattousai17
Thanks, I was just curious and my PS3 is broken :P.
You can also plink it to make it a 3 frame window.
Ryu has a fundamental weakness no one seems to understand apparently. If you shut down both ryu's low forward and fireball successfully, ryu will struggle during the match. Infiltration only had one plan. Force daigo to the corner, punish either fireball or low forward while in the corner, apply corner mixup/pressure. Along the way, punish any mistakes with max range cr.mk cancels into fireball. (Cont.)
Did I say anything about Ryu taking more skill than Bison?
Why don't you make it in the tournament for i can see you get blown up.
read the below comment by sapreme " oiled hakan has a huge advantage vs rog". do you even play ssf4 ae?
im not a sf4 player and i dont usually watch sf4 fights but dang this was absolutely a great match wow
I think it's safe to say Daigo's best days are behind him. He is a shadow of his former self i'm afraid.
Infiltration not only negates zoning w/ projectiles, but he also baits and punishes c.mk w/ significant frequency. Not to mention, watching the Sako vs Daigo rounds again, he does NOT anticipate and jump in punish Daigos projectiles the same way Infiltration does them.
The fact that Daigo has been able to make matches between him and Sako competitive says something, where as Infiltration flat out destroys The Beast.
I think Daigo's time at the top has come and gone, but after all he's achieved you can hardly fault him for it. I hope he continues to compete in tournaments for SFV and beyond.
Why the hell does everyone think these matches are rigged? What possible reason would they have for rigging them?
Infiltration use a bat top?
Honestly, it's easy to read this and think, man, what a stand-up guy, but the only reason why he stayed with Ryu is because he's been using him since vanilla and every time he tried to switch to other characters (Yun), it didn't pan out. All this stuff about expression is moot, Ryu was really good at one point, that's why a lot of people, including Daigo, used him. They recognized his strengths.
Thing is, Vanilla Ryu was without question significantly more powerful then his incarnation in 2012, however Akuma was also even more powerful then his 2012 incarnation. Just that back then, nobody really knew how to play the game yet, until now. If you go back in play Vanilla, Ryu, Gouki, Sagat would be Top-Tier.
You're right though, the fact is Infiltration has Daigos number now. Seeing him psychic jump over projectiles and killing Daigo each time is crazy.
Seth was glazing the whole match.
this shows that daigo is only human.. thats right huan errors, we remember him because of his "beasty" wins in the past. but folks we cant win all the time. daigo will always be respected for the memorable fights and hard work he have put in for the FG scene. he is no robot, he is just human
His Yun was strong, but he knew something was lacking because he couldn't adapt nearly as well, he simply lacked the experience, but he's a strong player so he could pretty much use anyone and still place highly. As soon as Yun was mildly nerfed, that character was shelved indefinitely. The point is, it's easy to fall back on the "I don't play to win" thing when you haven't been. Young Daigo would look at him sideways for saying that.
Please learn how to read carefully before posting. I never mentioned s.HK anywhere. I'm talking about neutral heavy kick in the air. AKA jump up heavy kick (without jumping back or front). It's an excellent counter to Bison's stomp and no, DPs are not a good counter to the stomp at all, the stomp will almost always beat it out (DPs suck against moves that hit near vertical).
Absolutely, if Gouki gets a hard knock down, you could be looking to get hurt. However if you play right, its not easy for Gouki to get that hard knock down.
Hence why I like the way Laugh played vs Infiltration, because he never really gave Gouki that opportunity. That's why it became a battle of attrition which is what it should come down too.
Daigo on the other hand plays a bit more offensive then Laugh which favored more into Infiltrations gameplan of countering Ryu.
If its not tier list... why did infiltration used hakan to face or balrog? Akuma has an edge over ryu if both too players are on same level. Daigo has a solid read on tokido because theyve played like.1000 times...
I don't know if I'd necessarily agree with Daigo struggling against Akuma players. The only one whose been able to beat him soundly is Infiltration.
Even his matches against Tokido arguably the other elite Gouki player he's won more then he's lost w/ his Ryu.
You don't need to take risk w/ Gouki unless your low on health and time. You just need to control the ground game.
Watch the matches again. Sako will have spurts of where he negates projectile zoning, however he not in the same manner as Infiltration. He utilizes Ibukis great poking tools to try and negate Daigo where as Infiltration flat out anticipates and punishes them.
Infiltration makes Daigo fearful to even throw Fireballs even in matches that he's winning (not the same for Sako) & even baits him to whiff c.mk for multiple knockdowns.
Sako punishes daigo's fireball game using Ibuki's sweep, the same way Infiltration does with his. Sako destroys Daigo's footsie game in punishing Daigo's whiff normals. If you watch the match, Daigo is always getting cornered when though he was throwing hadoukens. Beating Daigo on the ground as well as ending in a 6 win streak is a blow up. He could not get a sequence of events. There was no crazy screams there and the hype, but again that was a Blow up.
Just you wait, Daigo's going to use Infiltration's strategy and watch videos of Infiltration, and adapt to fighting against his strategy of watching videos of Daigo.
when i play against bison it is so hard to counter his stomp. Once he hits you with it, he jumps way out of range for my fireballs
i also want to add this: many pepole say that daigo is not good anymore, if we look away from the akuma matchup and that one game in topanga league vs a goodlike sako on ibuki. he never loose. infiltration counter pick so many times. and everyone knows that yun beats akuma really hard. and daigo was the best yun player as well. but thats why i love daigo, he sticks to his character. he has won everything, but he wants a hype community and thats excatly what we have today thanks to him:)
Again this is speculation, you originally made it sound like he choose ryu because he was strong that maybe true but the question is what now? Ryu is hardly the greatest option and you pointed out that he could play anyone well because he is a good player. Then wouldn't him choosing not to use a higher tier character the very definition of not playing to win? We cant really speculate on what his younger self would say.
The real reasons is that Infiltration beat Daigo out on all facets. He outzoned Daigo, he even out footsied Daigo, and he punished a good majority of Daigos Hadouken attempts.
This started to make Daigo hesitant on what he wanted to do and thus why Infiltration was able to dictate so much of the match up, especially those steam rolls that came within some of those sets.
At those highest lvls, mental mistakes and hesitations can/will overwhelm you, if your opponent is punishing you accoringly.
Ryu's Ex DP beats Akuma's ex fireball clean. The regular air fireball is against ryu's DP is a trade in ryu's favor. Akuma's DP only overrides ryu's DP in the air at the last hit of the srk. Otherwise the winning DP is dependent on position. There are options selects for ryu that can chase or heavily punish akuma's teleport. Btw Ryu's low forward is no joke and a 250 health diffference can make a big difference sir...
Yes, yes I completely agree with you as said in my last reply. I have conceded my argument. Daigo is better than Infil.10-2 was very one-sided and Daigo won with clairvoyant footsies and smothering pressure that infil admitted himself was "stupendous" by Daigo in an interview. The Beast is back.
Infiltration switched over to Hakan was because he Knew PR Rog didn't know the Hakan match up & that it would throw him off his game (Hakan does not have and advantage over Balrog mind you).
PR Rog was reading and countering Infiltrations Gouki. Look at how many times he caught Infiltration w/ FA for Huge Punish and reading his backdashes w/ turn punches into Ultra. Had Infiltration stuck w/ Gouki he would've most likely lost the fight to PR Rog.
That's the reason why
his yun was strong getting blown up by pongo doesnt count as not panning out. Ryu being strong in the past is hardly a reason to keep him if the guys has already tried someone else, at this point its hard to tell why he still uses him.
It's fine. Daigo is a legend already.
Akumas sweep is something else...
Wow you didn't understand a thing at all. Infiltration's pick on Akuma instead of Ryu, Gouken or Hakan against Daigo matters. Infiltration smart use of fireball destroys Ryu's ground game, whereas the use of different character, using Ryu he knows he'll lose (which has no anti tech against an honest match up). He switches character based on match ups (vs Kazunoko, Popi, etc...). He lost to Tokido on a 5-5 match up consistently. Daigo only used guile once against Mago (that event).
I was about to lose my mind, it looked like Ryu punched a hadoken back at Akuma @1:00 for a sec.
Daigo has to deal tries to block those ambiguous guaranteed demon flip dive kick. Daigo tries to DP punish Akuma's ex air fire ball (with ridiculous stun block) but Akuma takes priority. Daigo challenges Akuma's DP with his own and gets overridden as always. Daigo goes for safe jumps and Akuma just teleports freely. Infiltration has master the tools of Akuma to beat Daigo. Daigo has mastered the tools of Ryu. What does Ryu have advantage over Akuma? cr. mk and just Health?
The real significance here is simple.
Infiltration is Reading Daigo like a Free Book.
That's a Fact. If you watch here, every single time Daigo tries to throw out a Hadouken, Infiltration already realizes this before hand and is airborne to counter Daigo's spacing. Daigo is playing it "right" correctly, however Infiltration knows Daigos habits and his punishing accordingly.
Infiltration has been doing this to Daigo since Evo2k12, 25th Anniversary and now here.
For someone named sillyskeleton, you sure say some pretty profound and nice shit.
Not exactly, the way Laugh played against Infiltration is a better example of the Ryu vs Gouki match up. In here, Infiltration literally Knew what Daigo was doing before he knew and punished him accordingly.
To sum it up. Infiltration using Akuma does matter.
Also in the consistency part Sako vs Daigo, Sako beats Daigo everytime (FT10 and FT7) recorded in Topanga League's history. But did you also know the 50 matches that they had? it ended 50-27 for Daigo. 50 matches between Infiltration and Daigo will not end up the same at the other sets they had. It's a completely different set. Daigo just proved it by beating Sako.
i think with the buffs given to ryu and the balances daigo will move up again. keep in mind he is using a mid tier character against one of the best in the worlds top top top tier character. and he can still make him sweat
Infiltration Only Counterpicks when the match up is Very Difficult (Yun can destroy Gouki). 98% of the time he utilizes Gouki & the match up between Ryu vs Gouki is not lopsided because Ryu can compete in footsies + he has the better projectile ground game.
Ryu also has U1 which can turn the match in a close fight vs Gouki. This match up doesn't heavily favor Gouki But really comes down to who plays better.
Infiltration was reading Daigo so well he made it look like a 8-2 matchup.
He has plenty of championships to his name. Hes already proven himself and doesn't need to do it more by winning another championship. Sounds like you didn't watch the video or pay attention to what Seth Killian was saying about Daigo. Even though Daigo isn't playing with only the goal of winning, hes still getting top 8 nearly everywhere he goes since 2009.
daigo went* ssaiyan oops typo.
Is this like "Kobe vs MJ?"
Using Akuma doesn't matter in a match up where a fight between Ryu vs Akuma is around a 50-50.
Sako losing to Daigo is irrelevant because Sako doesn't Blow Up Daigo's positioning nor does he punish Daigos fireball zoning in the way that Infiltration does.
Watch those Daigo vs Sako matchups & you'll see how Sako doesn't consistently keep Daigo out of his comfort zone w/ fireballs and how Daigo can still keep a passive aggressive setup.
That isn't the problem. Daigo was dominating w/ Ryu back in ST and that game has been played for well over a decade, so how is this loss excusable? The fact is, Ryu vs Gouki is actually a 50/50 match up so it'll heavily rely upon who simply plays better within the match up.
It's simple, Infiltration has had Daigo's # since Evo2k12 and since. Daigo is going to have to figure out how to outplay Infiltration.
Sako consistently beats daigo in a long set of matches except for that day of FT50. Rewatch that matches again. Sako's clean execution and perfects was so visible ending in 7-3 with a 6 win streak. The fancy ranging Akuma-to-the-back ultra wasn't there, The evo hype and the crowd was definitely not there, but that was a sure Blow Up.
I did forget that, however 11-6 still means Daigo loss 5 more times to Infiltration w/ many of those rounds being steamrolls. The thing is Akuma has Always been this good, and in previous SF4 games, he was Even Better!
The difference was, other characters were broken down more so then Akuma was. In Vanilla SF4 "if" we still played that today, Akuma would become the Best character in their and that was when Ryu was at his absolute best.
That was a good combo
Well said.
Balrog v Hakan is 5-5. Do you even play AE?
I don't think it's that. I think the game has changed and Daigo has decided to stay with the character he likes rather than adapt as play styles have changed over time. He said he knows Ryu isn't the best character and he could switch if he wanted to win. He's beyond pushing for win at this point, but I wouldn't say he's lost any ability.
I agree with you...it isn't so much that Gouki is that better than Ryu, its that Daigo is relying too much on Ryu's fireball, DP game. He is trying to make space to fireball but Infiltration is jumping over them and comboing him. Plus he's letting Infiltration out footsie him and put him in the corner which is weird...Daigo isn't playing SF4, he's playing ST style...but that doesn't work with this Ryu..he may have said he wasn't scared to lose, but he definitely wasn't playing to win
1st, DAIGO KEPT HIS COOL
Still the only player to be in the top 8 of all the sf4 events at evo.
Looks like Infiltration has had Daigo's number for a while now....
I think your point with the reputation is quite good but Infil used akuma because that would be a slap to the fans if he didn't choose him (surely you would've wanted him to pick Akuma in that exhibition too right?) The reason I used rank is because you limited the time frame to NOW only so since the most recent tournament shows Infil placing 4th I think he's better. Again people don't go as hard in exhibition match but Daigo want ssaiyan on that match, earning the title exhiBeast! A compliment!
Yup...Infiltration obviously studied him but Daigo said he'd rather figure how to beat him while playing him. But Daigo has always had trouble with Akuma players.
Daigo tries not to play with risk, but against Akuma you need to. He let Infil fireball whenever wherever, no jump ins, no jump in tatsus, no focus and then tried to fight out of the corner...just pure defensive play and that has to lose at this level.
"one of the most powerful tool against balrog is the meteor slide.. it goes right through headbutts, cant counter it even If u know its coming ". seth killian.. do you play ae michael day? or you're just throwing stupid comments?
That was ONE set. During the 90% of the fight, Laugh played it very well. It's just that Infiltration was the Better player.
In here Infiltration blew Daigo up so convincingly, while in Laughs case it was incredibly difficult for Infiltration to get in and start a Vortex.
When you play it right its not advantageous to Gouki.
In vanilla, daigo used to chase down akuma players.. Now he runs away from from.. Weird!
well said
Lol, who are you to tell him when to retire? He plays with the character he wants to play with as long as he wants to. He is still the best Ryu player to date and I don't think he plans to change on that.
Infil using Akuma shouldn't matter when the Ryu vs Akuma is around an even match up to where Ryu has the more dominant ground game, while Akuma has the better knock down game due to Vortexes. So this shouldn't even be a reason.
The difference is that Infiltration is the Only Player in SF4 to have figured out how to counter Daigo's Hadouken setups. Hes been doing it since Evo2k12 & its glaring he's still doing it even at Evo2k13.
Regardless Infil is the better player when the two face off.
It doesn't take skill to throw fireballs and do uppercuts, but it takes skill to throw fireballs and uppercuts at the right time so that your opponent can't take advantage of it. These are the best players in the world, right here. Spamming shit won't work on them.
(Cont.) Think about ryu's problematic match-ups. Bison, adon, dhalism for example; Ryu cannot maximize low forward, fireball as well as he could in let's say a vega match or Dudley match. Shotos actually have an easier time stopping that pressure. Ken's step kick, Akuma's walkspeed, oni's step kick, gouken's and evil ryu's true fireball block strings. Etc.. It's just how it is. Why do you think daigo constantly says "ryu isn't the strongest character." Ryu will always have the fault exploited.
Did anyone else notice that daigo lost the last round same way infiltration lost the first round? I thought it was kind of neat xD. NOTE: Not an ex-fireball but a fireball in general.
I feel Daigo wasn't aggressive enough in the last two games.
Then why did infiltration used ryu against kazunoko yun? And hakan vs pr balrog? He used akuma vs daigo because he knows akuma has an edge.. Infiltration counter picks unlike daigo and tokido... use your head and think a little bit please!!!
He even outfootsied Daigo in this match up, as well as punishing Daigo for throwing projectiles. Infiltration won on the Majority of the match ups, and simply is Reading to the card. He did almost exactly what he did at 25th Anniversary to Daigo.
This domination has more to do with Infiltration reading Daigo and punishing for him.
Daigo is a beast, but people need to accept the fact that infiltration is the better player. My top 5 is:
1. Infiltration
2. Daigo
3. Xian
4. Tokido
5. Pr balrog
He said that straight forward skill is required to WIN, not to do specials.
Everyone knows that it's easy to do the input for Hadouken, Shoryuken, Tatsumaki and so on.
By your logic, someone like Cammy or Akuma would be the easiest street fighter character, not Ryu.
(part4)characters e.g. Rose, Ibuki, Ken, Ryu (which you can find footage on youtube) I don’t think he really prepared for the exhibition match. See I think Daigo won because he was at 110% that day kudos to Daigo credits to him, he did it well and he won that set dominantly but I think infil was at only 80% that day. 1st to infil it’s just an exhibition 2nd you could see him cooling himself off with the water bottle constantly so he physically wasn’t feeling tip-top,3rd he had no good Ryu
(cont...) The point of it all (the conversation as a whole) is that the match-ups do matter. You'll rarely see Infiltration NOT counterpick unless he is restricted on using only 1 character. Infiltration uses the best tools that he has to win. That's all there was to it. Saying that using Akuma "doesn't matter"... Do you not get this? For shame, you are I tell you.