Confederate Spiller & Burr Revolver (Presentation!)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 มิ.ย. 2024
- / forgottenweapons
The Spiller & Burr was a copy of the 1854 Whitney revolver, made in .36 caliber under contract to the CSA. As with so many Confederate arms projects, many thousands were promised and only a small fraction actually delivered. The Whitney in particular suffered from a lack of suitable materials, with cylinders having to be made from twisted iron instead of proper steel.
/ forgottenweapons
![[TH] VCT Pacific Stage 2 - Week 2 Day 1 // RRQ vs TLN | DRX vs PRX](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_OWt_-Lu3AE/mqdefault.jpg)
They still produced 1400 guns by then end of the war. For any domestic CSA gun manufacturer that’s actually not bad.
It wasn't just materials for the guns. They also did not have materials for factory tools. If something broke there was a good chance it was just going to stay broken. That would make it very difficult to turn out the kinds of materials needed to support a war effort.
The iron loading levers soon broke under use and a Whitney steel loading lever was used as a replacement. You're not likely to find one with the original S&B loading lever; if you do, it's likely a fake. Also, examined up closely, you can see the twisted striations in the cylinder iron .. much like a stick of twisted taffy.
Ian, you really now your history and you speak so fluently without notes. You also have a natural enthusiasm which comes over to the viewer. Well done.
Being in mind your comments on manufacture, I din't think I would in a hurry to fire it.
What else can you say, simply outstanding presentation.
I appreciate how you give all the information possible. You even tell what information is missing. Thank you for sharing your knowledge on all these tremendous weapons.
As a collectible gun this is a ten out of ten. As an illustrative device in microcosm it is also very good at pointing out some of the manufacturing problems the South tried to overcome, but ultimately failed at. Super video.
I love how unsubtly shady things were back in those days. At least nowadays an arms company would try to PRETEND one of its founders wasn't involved in making purchasing decisions for its principal customer. (See also, the LeMat/Gen. Beauregard connection mentioned in a previous video.) Back then? Eh, who needs deniability? Meanwhile, Tucker & Sherrard were over there playing the classic Eli Whitney "spend the government's advance on something else" scam... it's all so cheerfully blatant. It's a shame industrial corruption isn't still so lacking in pretense.
Ya mean the military industrial complex? Keep voting for career politicians to see the cabal that actually controls central gvt.
It seems like the only people who would even be aware of the potential conflict of interest would be one's partners in crime haha
I like the aesthetics of Spiller and Burr. Nothing fancy yet draws my look.
On another note, thank you for one more great presentation with so much knowledge in it!
In another month, I'm buying repro and likely having it defarbed.
Brilliant, detailed, fascinating presentation delivered with your usual flair and enthusiasm, not to mention without notes. It really comes across how interested you are in the history and how fluent in the context (war, economics, logistics, access to raw materials, for example) of the time and why certain aspects of the weapons are how they are, plus the alterations that evolved the design. I can't get enough of both the unusual/unique firearms to which you have access and your ability to impart knowledge and history throughout.
“Twisted iron” sounds like they were starting with wrought iron, then “twisting/folding” the stuff to get excessive slag and impurities out of it.
Your presentation and knowledge is amazing, this should be on TV!
I do enjoy the chance to learn a bit of history with the study of a weapon.
Even if they were able to make an exact copy of a Colt revolver there wasn't any steel available to complete them with.
I'm glad I found your channel. I really enjoy your videos about these old guns. I have a cousin whose not a gun guy but he's really big into the Civil War. I think he'll enjoy your channel as well.
Sir, thank you for a very informative presentation on this historic firearm . I really enjoyed watching.
Thanks for the videos.
My collection budget unfortunately doesn't cover common practice ammo sometimes.
But I get to see cool collector firearms via TH-cam.
That's cool. 😊👍
Why hasnt anybody mentioned that Ian looks like a confederate cavalry officer :o
Well, if his hoodie passed for Japanese WW2 uniform, then the gray sweater should be fine too.
Ian, you're the man! Can't even believe how much I've learned from you. Cheers from Seattle!
Fit and finish are very nice on that revolver, contrary to some other confederate pistols I've seen on this channel
I love Confederate weapons! The different types, quality, and the sources are fascinating!
Wow, I had no idea. What a tragic story actually. Thank you for posting!
A relatively uninteresting gun, with a fascinating story behind it. This is why I love this channel.
Considering what they had to make it, it is absolutely great, thanks for sharing again🎉
The Spiller & Burr has always been my personal favorite Confederate produced revolver. It was nice to get a good look at one.
Ian a very interesting story on a very cool Civil War revolver!
Kind Thanks for the history of this very historical pistol! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania
With this being one of the few and limited pistols produced by the Confederacy it's no wonder the Southern troops picked up and used any guns lost by or confiscated from the Northern soldiers. I would certainly have preferred a Remington or even an early Colt compared to this gun.
I've heard good things about the 1858 Remington and the 1860 Army.Im learning historical black powder to buy and shoot (repops).I've heard this pistol that Ian is reviewing was very inaccurate.
@@wirelessone2986 I mean that's kinda typical for a lot of guns at that time, but I think that had more to do with ammunition than the gun itself.
@@wirelessone2986 fyi there's no such thing as an "1858," it's called the "new model" so you're basically thinking of the same gun 🤠
@@beargillium2369 Thanks I didnt know that
Like always, brilliant video 👍
I remember that this pistol was made from melting down Southern statues to use the brass to make these pistols because as it is a softer metal was easier to machine
it looked nice from a distance then when you showed it up close you can see how crudely thrown together it was
Very true. And for the money they put in. lol. Still, it was the wartime South and they did just have to move a shit ton.
My uncle actually has a replica of one of these. It's a very interesting gun, though the grip is uncomfortable for larger hands.
I know this video is old, but I've learned more about history from Ian than any other one source. Sometimes it's a very narrow vew of one manufacturer, sometimes it's a little hidden part of something most people know a little bit about...plus Gun Jesus.
Man, that poor thing looks like it's been dry fired for about 150 years.
+GuyKappe -- i'm guessing you noted that crumpled nipple too. It may not have been used in battle, but it sure seems to have been used well past the point it can take a cap.
I feel like it looks.
this gun triggers my ocd
so many wobbly unstrait lines
"straight" or "non-straight"
confederate made firearms are so interesting and have such cool stories
Thank Ian!!
Regardless of where your sentiments lay. This is what happens when a rural agriculturally based society reliant upon compulsory labor decides to locks horns with an industrialized urban society with a well entrenched manufacturing base and a endless supply of resources.
Yes, certainly.
But there are fights that simply HAVE to be fought, nevertheless the perspective of victory.
I know, it is a kinda 'politically' silly way of thinking, but the human ENERGY, in History, is sometimes what it is.
Slim Charles (The WIRE):
"It don't matter who did what to whom. Fact is, we went to war and now there ain't no going back… If it's a lie, then we fight on the lie. But we gotta fight."
Well done!
Why don't the replica companies use gain twist rifling? Is constant twist rifling better? Elmer Keith wrote that he get a clover leaf pattern on a playing card at 20 yards with an original 1851 Navy. They were made with gain twist rifling.
Standard twist is cheaper and easier.
But is it better for accuracy?
Debatable, probably doesn't matter for 95% of people in a black powder pistol. It is mainly to get a faster twist with less bore erosion.
Very good presentation of the gun made in my hometown, Macon, Georgia ~ except for some unknown reason he NEVER mentioned a unique feature that was a rather excellent one, that they had a lug on the left side of the frame ,ahead of the cylinder, that you could turn 3/4 of a turn, and it disengages the loading lever , so you could slide the rammer all the way out and release the cylinder to fall out of the frame. So if you had 1-3 extra cylinders in a shirt pocket or belt pouch, already loaded , ready to go, juist pop one into the frame, slide the loading lever/rammer back in, twist the lug back a 3/4 turn and lock it in for a quick reload to keep firing. A similar feature of the 1858 Remington revolvers of the North !
Csa never made brass receivers for their revolvers. The receivers were made of bronze. A mix of copper and tin. Much stronger than brass. Just fyi.
Very excellent video as always.:D
Very nice review TY for sharing
Kind of a saddening story but you told it well!
The modern replicas use better steel for the cylinders and relatively high-strength bronze for the frames. Interestingly, an original Whitney Navy revolver would foul from blackpowder residue after about seven shots without cleaning! The replica S&B was good for about three-and-a-half cylinder-fulls before tying up. Accuracy was about the best I've seen in cap-and-ball revolvers.
The other thing that is interesting about the loading lever is that Ruger uses that design rather than the Colt's type in the Ruger Old Army!
Did Robinson manage to make any rifles?
Actually, where did the CSA get most of its rifles?
A little late reply here but a lot of the Confederacy's main infantry rifles were 1851 patterned Enfields from England, some imported in (not a lot for obvious reasons), some in-house built. and the rest were just captured stocks from US armories and stuff picked up off the field such as the Springfield musket.
@@yojimbo3856 I may be wrong, but I always thought that a noticeable amount of firearms would also be owned by the recruited volunteers & militiamen. There are mentions of whole newly organized units armed with whatever they brought from home.
@@yojimbo3856 "the rest were just captured stocks from US armories"
Not an insignificant rest... the CSA confiscated at least 20 US Armories in the months from Secession, leading up to the Civil War. Atun Shei Films had a fascinating bit on this in one of his "checkmate Lincolnites" videos. An episode of the Civil war not mentioned too often, especially by the "the South did nothing wrong"/we're all just "patriots" folks... Seceding and yet still annexing the property of an army you previously swore loyalty to IS treason.
Were all confederate revolvers failures like the last few you've shown or were there some which were successful?
+Spark Gap They were pretty much all failures. Some were better than others, but none really became successful.
+Bart Bols They were all attempts to start production of complex products in wartime in an area without a lot of industrial experience while under blockade. They weren't dumb or incompetent, they were just working a very uphill battle. Even in the best situations starting up a firearms factory is a daunting task.
+Feder Fencer agreed, reminds me of the crummy volksturm weapons cobbled together due to material shortages.
+Forgotten Weapons it kinda sounds like they were inherently corrupt in their procurement process, both this and the Lemat were chosen based on political connections, maybe it's possible that better guns with more competent designers were passed over due to lack of connections.
Really, it all makes you wonder about attempts at steel production in the south during the war...
Muito linda pena não ter tradução simultânea ou legenda no nosso idioma. Aqui é Brasil, pelo menos por enquanto.
i salute Spiller for having to courage to stand behind his convictions..
I love seeing Confederate weaponry and hearing it's history.
I will be excited to see the hammer price on this one.
+Bart Bols Are you serious?
+Bart Bols
xD
+TheRealColBosch
+Bart Bols
Bravo, gentlemen-
I'm glad to see that my comment has created such good Monday morning conversation. LOL
:-P
I really want this, but i already have 30 revolvers and may not have room for one in the display cases
Ian, I know this video is quite old, but maybe you will see the comment notification.
This series of videos from James D. Julia, must have been an individual collection of civil war firearms. The gentleman must have past on and his family sold the lot. We would love to see profiles on some of these collectors, who have compiled and saved much of the firearm history.
I would propose, that if one of these collectors passes, you produce a eulogy video, explaining that they collected, and how their private collection benefited us.
I would love to see tours of some private collections as well without deep dives. The South African collector comes to mind. I'd love a tour of what he has. He's spent so much time and money collecting, lets show it off.
Thanks for the great videos!
Did they just have some guy cutting the barrels by hand and eyeballing it, maybe?
With how much they spent
In 1860 currency
The confederacy paid equivalent of $1255.94 for each gun in todays money
Could you remark on gain twist rifling and its usage in history? I don't ever hear of it being used in modern guns.
The Italian carcano rifle had gain twist I believe.
Moved the factory down to Georgia just in time for Sherman's scorched earth policies.
NEprimo I'm from the south and love a good ol fuck Sherman comment but your response had me chuckling I'll admit.
What book that mentions this gun would you recommend? Thanks Ian!
Maryland is in the South, sort of...
Excellent video like usual, Thank you. History is full of "businessmen" who cant cut it when the playing field is level.
The playing field has never been level. Gaming the system and corruption without getting punished is part of what makes a businessman good. "Greed is good."
A mí me parece más bien una copia revuelta de un revolver Remington 1858 con Roger&Spencer 1863 y un toque de colt Dragoon de 1849!
Good looking gun.
you're great dude! have subed, and will watch your vids until...
does he have a video on the Uberti Schofield No. 3 Revolver?
So Ian, I heard somewhere that you played Verdun, and i was curious if you actually did. I never really pictured you as a guy who plays video games.
This make me wounder whats the most expensive firearm a military ever bought in to Days monetary value. hopefully this one makes top five.
TheRealColBosch
Was that monstrosity ever used as a servicerifle by any unit ?
Things start to go south
You said the pressure is the greatest on the top strap. Strange how the first revolver that "Could blow your head clean off", the Colt Walker didn't even have a top strap.
There were no Walkers cast in brass. Brass sucks as a pistol frame material. There were various Colts in brass but low power configurations.
The cylinder pin on open-frame Colts are typically referred to as 'arbors' because, comparatively, they're as thick as tree trunks.
That was extremely interesting. Pity I live in the U. K. and cannot own firearms.
Aren't hunters allowed to own certain types of firearms in the UK? I was under the impression that some guns are legal with the right paperwork and stuff.
did they make copies of this firearm after the factory closed
so did they decide to make the guns by hand instead of using the equipment?
How can I find drawings of such pistols?
Oof. What a rough ride this pistol's history ended up being. Shame the brass doesn't hold up to consistent use, becoming mishapen, because it's certainly an aesthetically nice choice.
Well done Ian. Were all Confederate frames brass? It looks like a Remington '58.... but less refined...hmmmm..... a twisted iron... seems like a third rate Damascus principle?
+Tom Snook No, but many were.
Ian, your presentation was excellent~ EXCEPT , you never mentioned nor showed the most important feature of the Spiller & Burr (as with the Whitney Navy revolvers it copied), the squared lug on the left could be turned 3/4 back and releases the loading lever/cylinder pin to pull forward, freeing the cylinder to pop out and quickly be swapped for a pre-loaded cylinder to be inserted and snapped in for another 6 rounds ! Tuesday, May 19, 2020
Also, the "presentation " model had a finer bluing and beautiful burled-walnut grips !
Nice video. The comments about the south being disorganized? Damn, the north with all its advantages took far longer than the south would've taken had they had all the advantages.
Is this supposed to be private?
I have one of these!
are you still actively researching Spiller & Burr ?
which revolver is that one on the picture under the le matt?
+S3BAST1AN696 This one: th-cam.com/video/M9ZhfHjtcvQ/w-d-xo.html
Often, when watching videos like these, I feel really parted. On one hand I feel sorry for those guys, who had and industrial project, which would be nice to succeed, but then I remember those where CSA, and it's sort of good they failed. Also serves as an example what advantages industrial nation has over an agrarian one, thus also hinting those where not slaves, who built the wealth of the nation, so CSA would have achieved much more, if they had dropped slavery already and had more free men on their side.
P.S. But exactly because these are so few and so different even in the same batch, collecting them must be exciting.
It doesn't make me feel sorry for the guys that all it makes me feel like I'd like to go back in time and slap them for screwing people over they paid them 60 Grand and they couldn't deliver more than 15 pistols which most of were pieces of junk. That's something only a charlatan would do
I really wish Uberti would make repros of the Whitney Navy revolver. Had a Palmento one it was badly made. Dear Santa and Dear Ian, please ask Mr Uberti to have a go, such a good design.
Do you like this confederate copy that is being repro'd?
"You fought all the way Johnny Reb..."
Gain twist rifling?
eyeballing the barrel length during assembly lol.
the kinetic energy on that would probably be under a hundred pounds it would probably just piss somebody off if they got shot with it
Cool
Looks like a x between a Remington & Colt
That shirt! =)
Do you have a presentation on the Whitney revolver?
+Jason Clark Not yet, no.
Thank you
It may have been a failure, but it is still a heck of weapon by the looks alone...
+Mirdarion Agreed! It has a clean and slightly more "modern" square look than some contemporary weapons (mostly due to not being open top I guess), which is nicely offset with the oldschool brass. Looks nice!
It's kinda crazy how horribly all these attempts at production went...at least they appear to have _been trying_ to make the guns, unlike some other enterprises we could mention.... xD
It's actually kinda crazy to me that these differences in industrial capacity didn't result in a more pronounced disadvantage in battles against the North.... You never seem to hear about their equipment being as lacking as, say, the Russians and Soviets in the early 20th century?
The price of these at the time is pretty shocking when you factor in what the confederacy spent, it averages out to over $40 a pistol, which is more than double what a colt or a Remington cost in the north, both of which were much better pistols.
60,000/1451= $41.35 each.
4 minutes. Not bad.
Between this and the Tucker and Sherrard from last week, confederate arms procurement sounds like it was kinda a disaster.
Long live the south!
The South is there. But most TV shows lasted longer than the Confederacy.
It's like a replica gun. Looks good from a distance, real size and weight, but when you look at it up close it's made of cheap crap.
Gun manufacturing company's founding member is the government official deciding on the gun orders of the government. I'm smelling this would not fly anymore. I think there is a term for this kind of practice. I think I'm looking for the word conflict of interest.
17 Yankees didn't like this vid