@@candace6893 when his preaching changes biblical truths, THATS when it was changed......you can be right with scripture 9 times and wrong 1 time and then you’re not speaking from God Almighty......discernment is very much needed
I would beg to say that most preachers preach about their thoughts and they use the Bible as their source. Everyone has their own interpretation of the Bible and they’re going to preach what they believe
@@blaketaylor7317 2 Peter 1:20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation The Bible means what is says. It must be in context with its original meaning as it was presented to the original audience. We cannot go abstract with Scripture to make it fit an agenda.
@Jimmy Ruquet But regardless people are still going to preach what they understand to be true. Nobody interprets the Bible the exact same way, and a preacher is going to preach what he believes is the truth and there’s no getting around that fact
It is below Washer to waste his time on a debate like this. Washer is a no non-sense man when it comes to standing on the authority of God. I doubt he would even accept an invitation like this..and if he did Washer would smoke him in a debate.
Washer wouldn't be this charismatic in his approach. Instead of Washer pointing out the issues he has with Furtick (or potentially even Chandler for that matter) Washer would spend his time preaching the Gospel and comparing it as the measure of Furticks success/failure. That said I dont believe Washer would attend an event like this because it does nothing to further the Kingdom of God and win souls for the Body of Christ.
@@leofogarty6590 PAUL WILL ABSOLUTELY SMOKE STEVEN..BUT WHAT I LOVE ABOUT PAUL IS "THE TRUTH" IS GIVEN. NO LUKEWARM THERE...WE NEED TO REPENT!!!! AND FOLLOW JESUS & WHAT HE CAME HERE FOR. PAUL WASHER COMES FROM THE SAME PLACE HE LIVES...HE COME WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. GOD BLESS YOU!
Furtick," I just led my church through the N.T. in 30 days". John Macarthur, "We just finished going through the whole N.T. after 40 yrs." Me,"Guess which one was more in depth with the deep doctrinal truths of the holy word of God"?
@@Redsniperxrays yes but if that’s your church, and your pastor, you might want to actually go through some Old Testament stuff with your own pastor. I’m sure macarthurs was more in depth. if furtick had spent 40 years instead of 30 days going through the New Testament That would’ve gone more in depth than his 30 series as well-that’s kinda obvious lol. But to use that as a knock on Furtick is just really dumb bc that’s so obvious and expected
Sooo.... it might take someone 40 years to grasp the meat of the NT? 🤭🤭🤭 That's just sad. You ought to be able to read the NT daily and fully. It's not that complicated. Jesus Is pretty clear and so were the disciples. The rest is decorative.
This video is a prime example of why “church” as it has become in America, is no longer about the body of Christ. It’s a social event, a career choice, a three ring circus. It has COMPLETELY lost the heart of being about a relationship with God and His people. 😔🤦🏼♀️
Colton Weeks Thoughtful of you, but the last thing I want to do is leave one religion (modern day evangelicalism) for another. I will keep my relationship with Christ and forego the circus of church. 💒
Danielle Wilson did you hear the whole thing and have you listened to Pastor Steven Furtick preach and are you aware of the hundreds of thousands of dollars he’s provided churches with to help reach communities during this COVID nightmare we live in? I’m not being cruel...what I’m saying is that simply talking about the body of Christ in a slanderous judgemental way off of a clip (or at all for that matter) is doing God’s job. We are the bride of Christ and a house divided against itself will not stand. I don’t know if your faith is in Jesus, but I would ask anyone who is, to consider their tone and contributions online because pointing out the issues doesn’t sow anything beneficial into God’s kingdom. We need to stand up and say “I’m sorry people of the world...for all who have been hurt by the church. I personally was hurt by churches and by all kinds of people in the fallen world we live in, but I have come to realize that people and God are 2 different things. So I now stand with my fellow believers, humbled, restored, and lovingly inviting you (and EVERYONE) back to join as one body.” Evil is against us and has nothing to offer except death and disease and brokenness. Jesus Christ will always be victorious even if a debate on TH-cam makes it seem otherwise. I challenge all to seek God, set aside whatever has happened to turn you away, and you’ll come to find He is the only one worthy of praise! Again, all this said in a kind and respectful tone, and because it needs to be said. I don’t want to be the one, but God has brought me thru Hell...thru tragedy and hardships that many will never have to experience thankfully! So my life is His forever and ever!! God bless you all!! ❤️
He's not even covering repentance in any of his sermons. Come on fam that's crazy....there's no saving in his churches without repentance. That's an easy one pastor Steven
“ When you compare yourselves by yourselves, you are not wise.“ Brothers and sisters, keep your eyes fixed on those walking and imitating Christ in truth, bearing the reproach outside the camp. (Hebrews 13) May you have the boldness to testify to sin, righteousness, and the eternal judgement. Repentance and faith in Christ Jesus are the foundation, anything else is vanity.
Isn't it funny how the world is being shaken and how "the church" isn't a building anymore? It was never meant to be! Neither were any of these men meant to be the focal point of the congregation. God is speaking to us now! Think it's time we listened to Him more than any one or more human. Just a thought. While the things of this world are shaken God's truth will remain.
Amen, Christianity was NEVER meant to be a building, that came when Constantine made Christianity the state religion of Rome, lt's the worst thing to happen to Christian worship for its method of worship is derived from the Greek areopagus and emphasizes a tier structure. It isn't 1st Century Christian worship where everyone was treated equally and each person was responsible for their own walk in faith.
Erix Eighty Music .... listen to John MacArthur...you will here PURE SCRIPTURAL TRUTH, not sugar coated & maybe will offend many...that is exactly fine with Paster John MacArthur..he came to tell the truth & if he didn’t offend anyone he is not doing what God placed in his heart! He speaks pure truth. God Bless you!
Kathleen Hannon I’m reading one of John macarthurs study bibles and I’m fascinated by a lot of his insight, you’re absolutely right when he said he isn’t afraid of preaching what God has put in him, he isn’t afraid of speaking the truth, I’m learning a lot from his teachings on the gospel but also praying and asking God for discernment and guidance through my reading so that I know what I’m reading is the truth
@@Steve_T14 Hi..so nice of you to reply to my comment. Pastor Johnny Mac is so on point. I too pray for discernment..So important to get the TRUTH! I have just order 4 books and can only read one at a time...lol...Feel free to reach out anytime..say hello..I will reply. I am looking for a Bible Study..one this gives us a good understanding of the time, geography, The Word!! Another Pastor I love is Allen Parr.."The Beat" on TH-cam..his vids are not long..his heart is precious..give him a good look..He is awesome. He is in Texas..his testimony is beautiful. Listen to him..you will be blessed..love to hear about John MacArthur's Bible Study..keep reading & building your personal relationship with Jesus & Im doing the same her..reach out..love to share our Lord with you. In Christ ✝️🙏💜
You can't separate doctrine from evangelism! 2 Timothy 4:3-5 3 For the time will come when they will not listen to the SOUND DOCTRINE, but having itching ears, will heap up for themselves teachers after their own lusts, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn away to fables. 5 But you be sober in all things, suffer hardship, do the work of an EVANGELIST, and fulfill your ministry.
formeyousee Well Done!!! It is hard to believe the Americanized church has moved so far from God while our brothers and sisters around the world are being imprisoned, beaten, tortured, and even martyred for just a handful of pages of the Holy Scriptures. We have met the Laodicean church. To think the Godhead paid the Ultimate Price which has been taken So Lightly. HEARTBREAKING!!! May the Good Lord Continue to Call-Out His Bride from the worldly system that has infected His Church!!! Yes, even so Come Lord Jesus!!! May God have mercy on our collective souls!
The key word in this passage is SOUND doctrine. Steven is talking about separating all of the other doctrines that have come about with regard to how, when, where, why evangelism should be done. Much of it is rooted in selfish ambition that seeks to dispense condemnation over people instead of showing the truth of the Gospel. If the doctrine is sound, then no need to separate the two.
I typically think of a congregation as a church family and think of church as a sermon, preferably exegetic preaching, and this is obviously none of that so I think it's fine to call it an audience.
@@byronboydstun2222 Yeah the audience was mostly pastors from around the country that wanted to attend. I thought some of the segments in both Elephant Room 1 and 2 were good. Some were pretty bad though.
Did you watch the whole sermon? Good luck with that. I can't listen to Stephen Furtick for 5 min. And I have on several occasions tried, but the Holy Spirit stirs me to flee. I love the Father. Discernment... A beautiful gift from God through His Holy Spirit that does dwell inside the truly saved.
Unfortunately so many of us Christians are more often influenced by the world and appearances than we are by the Holy Spirit and that leads us to preach from a purely legalistic point of view, which is the very thing Jesus spoke out against. There are more Pharisees in church today than there were in the time of Jesus' ministry, and that's why there's so much division amongst the body of Christ; the foot wants to tell what the hand should do, and the ear wants to tell what the nose should do. We have Christians debating amongst themselves, tearing eachother apart, instead of uniting under the Word of God. The lowliest excuse in defense of this spiritual cannibalism I've heard said was, "it's because we care about them and we want to help them", you don't even have to be a follower of Christ to see the utter hypocrisy in that. It's vanity; everything is vanity.
ian vincent bucol that is true, Sir, but I would also add unto that by saying, “Our preaching of His gospel and declaring His glory is the building of the church itself, the body of Christ.” Your statement is good, because celebrity preachers are on the wrong paradigm. It’s not about numbers or popularity, it’s about the body of Christ itself, all the Christians that are trying to look upon the Lord Jesus, who died for them.
Mizael Mendez I got news for u... 99% of churches are just about the numbers... & DON’T preach the TRUTH or look NOTHING like the book of Acts... All these churches are STILL a part of their MAMA... the mother of harlots... the Catholic Church... show me different...😳
Truthseeker424 my friend that is not news to me. Those churchs that preach for merely numbers and entertainment are always there and are prevalent in their lack of theology and truth and abundance in lies and immorality. But then I say in reply, “Are those really churches?” Many say Lord, Lord but-you know the rest. I’m not referring to those man-made buildings, but I’m referring to the Church, the bride of Christ, that remnant, that few that will survive the wrath of God through His grace. We are talking about two different things.
Kudos to all these men. It’s a big risk to respond to God to share the gospel through social media platform these days. You will try to choose every word wisely and still people will judge you. You will try to glorify God and show everyone His image but still it is the pastor who is being seen. A pastor’s heart needs to be checked with God always because there is a very thin line between humility and recognition.
Speaking in general...I think Pastors (or more broadly men of God as a whole) should respectfully challenge each other in a professional manner to hold each other accountable. But to debate like this, in a public forum...what was to be gained? It makes them all look bad.
I think what is.. I'm going to say "fun" for lack of a better word... about this debate is that they ask a more light hearted question. The question asked is " preach to build church attendance vs. preach to build church attendees" which ultimately, the answer is Both. Every church should strive to bring new people in so that more people can come to know Jesus, but also make sure that the more mature believers are getting fed spiritually, and growing as well. And they know that, but I feel like this is basically like a debate club in a high school or college, where they make you pick a side even on an issue where both sides could be correct. More than likely, they brought them on and told them to pick any side and go with it. It doesn't really seem like its meant to be a challenge or even a means of accountability. I feel like its just a debate club for pastors lol. There are the black and white areas ( i.e foundational truths that christianity is based on --> The Gospel and things that should never be taken out of context) and the gray areas (which are things that no matter which side you take, is the Gospel and foundational truths of Jesus really affected. Questions like " preach to build church attendance vs. preach to build church attendees" is just a gray area. No matter which they are preaching for, as long as they are preaching the Gospel and the Truth of Jesus, it doesn't really matter which side you're taking. I would definitely agree with you that this video doesn't really gain anything, and may make them not look the greatest, but I think it's just because the topic isn't a hard hitting topic and just a random topic that isn't meant to come to any conclusion
Very very Well said. Heard one preacher whom I won't name in here mentioned in his one sermon how, Charles surgeon's in all his sermons brings the gospel of Jesus Christ in full effect. In all surgeons sermons. Gospel must be the only centrifugal driving force behind every Christian song, be it dealing with heart break, death , depression or be it a sermon from Nehemiah , revelations, four gospels Corinthians, genesis, Leviticus or even song of Solomon or proverbs. If it is anything deviating from it or watered down to cos it doesn't suit the mood the worship bands or pastors should rather start a country club and end it with Jesus name as a flavor. That can never be a church no matter how many ppl they can bring to justify it. They will all b filled with Goats.
@@timsharpe6652 Have you seen the video where Chandler was invited to Furtik church as a guest speaker? Wow Chandler does a good job there. He wasn't invited back after that. I've seen your name in a few comments sections in regards to Christianity.
4:45 = Furtick: "I led my church through the New Testament in 30 days." And therein lies the problem. Person drives up to menu board: "Yeah, God, I'd like a financial blessing and new house." Person looks to wife: "You want anything, honey?" Person turn back to speaker: "Oh yeah, we also want a healthy marriage and a side of good kids." God response: "Okay, no problem, it will take a few minutes to prepare that order because of the work required. I'll also need your full participation." Person: "WHAT?! I'm going to have to wait? Plus I have to get involved? Forget this! I'm going up to that Furtick place. They don't even expect me to bring my Bible with me!"
He couldn't take the church through the New Testament in 30 years, God's Word is like God, unfathomable , if you lived 3 lifetimes you could never mine all of the treasures in God's Word, it's God breathed, not man breathed.
Doesn't look like the same person that I've listen too. I just started watching him on CBN a couple years ago. They must've been some really old old broadcast. Wow.
"I lead my church through the NT in 30 days." That proves the point. What depth will you have in the texts by going through the entire new Testament in 30 days or even 30 weeks? You can't do it
Foolishness from “men of God” “For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.”
I am really tired of the celebrity pastors - who believe their own hype and know little of "take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and lowly of heart." Every time I see Furtick he looks like somebody different...
People complaining about this format or platform. Crazy talk! I love how we get to see what the pastors really think about each other. Really shows the humanity in them. Check the log in your own eyes brothers and sisters.
Stephen Rogers Church leaders aren’t holy angels who can’t sin. They have zero inability to not sin, just like every human. Nobody is perfect or will ever be perfect. One 1 person was perfect and that was Jesus. Pastors and church leaders are human just as the congregation. Just because they’re leader don’t mean they can’t still live in the world. Doesn’t mean they can’t go watch the new Star Wars movie or even go on a game show or concert. You need to change your views on that and be very careful the things you say about Gods people, especially ones who are anointed. Steven Furtick is very anointed and has brought a lot of people, including me through a lot of heavy battles.
Black Wolf i encourage you to go listen to people like David Wilkerson, Carter Conlon, Curry Blake, Reinhard Bonke, etc. They wouldn’t participate in this Tom Foolery. If you want to listen to worldly leaders then go ahead. At least you know what you are being fed. I dont dislike Steven Furtick really at all. He has some pretty good messages, at least a handful. But the spirit in us can lead us to seperation from the world in many ways, if we submit to it.
mac teaches faith plus works...also that you can take the mark of the beast and still go to heaven...….he teaches that salvation is a free gift but then in the same sentence he say it will cost you....he cant even get that right
Very interesting to note the James MacDonald, the host, and Mark Driscoll have been fired from the churches they planted, while Furtick has gone almost all the way to the Prosperity Gospel.
@@bsaw00 I believe its about 8 years old. This is the first time Ive seen it though. I think Jesus would be pretty upset that Christianity is being reduced to this. But I dont wanna be preachy
I have been listening to Furtick for years, and listened to one of his books. I haven't heard anything close to Prosperity Preaching. Do you have a sermon I can go to for an example of what you mean?
@@eethal7481 prosperity preaching doesn't necessarily have to mean that God will make you rich monetarily. Many people seem to think this and then come to the defense of their favorite pastors and say "He/she never told me God will give me money if I give him money!" Prosperity could be of any kind really, it could be in health, relationships, marriages etc... So the main problem here is this, and I appreciate your question I truly do and will respect whatever decision you come to after this, but the problem is this- These pastors, usually the celebrity pastors who preach in megachurches will tell you these things like "blessings are right in your reach", or "God will open the doors of heaven and give you your hearts desires, marriages will be strengthen, prodigal sons will come home, your cancer will go away etc .... But you must practice obedience to him and sow a seed offering of this or that"- thats the real problem here, telling people things God hasn't promised. Infact God has promised us things are meant to get worse for us Christians before things get better. Now thats not to say God cant heal people or restore relationships or brings home your prodigal son or daughter, he can indeed but only if its in his will, it has to be at his word, not at the word of some hipster pastor on a stage wearing designer jeans and muscle t-shirts with all due respect to pastors of that particular sort. I hope this answered your question and like I said I respect whatever opinion you may have, all I ask is you stay in the word and be grounded because at the end of the day, its pastors like furtick who go home to a million dollar mansion to enjoy his steak and lobster dinner while common folks struggle to afford new school clothes for our kids. It can be easy to lose faith my friend, especially when these guys enjoy a life of luxery telling us we can have the same kind of life while God never promised us such, then we look to God to shake our fist in the air at him when our son has yet to come home from the crack house or our cancer made a comeback. Stay grounded my friend.
@willpower242 Chandler and Furtick? They're false teachers and used by God? Uhh NO. Chandler wasn't bad until he got mixed up with the false Gospel Coalition.
Furtick has blessed me with his preaching and brought me closer to God many times. I am an educated theologian by the way. So if you want to judge the tree by it's fruit, you must take into consideration that there are many like me.
I'm glad, but just be wary of what you feel, because he feeds on that and draws people in. This world is all about being told what they want to hear, not what they should hear. He has since this clip, preached falsehood doctrine about what Jesus can and can't do. He has used emotion instead of calm biblical teaching. And yes preachers can do both, but his sermons have no salt, no flavor. They have the appearance of a good steak, but it's spoiled. I don't judge what I see until I see it. I hear how he speaks and at first he seemed like a decent preacher, but he is only doing this for money now. He is leading people from sound doctrine, he tries to put us weak humans on par with the almighty God, and this is just what Jesus warned against. TD Jakes is no different. Delve further into these pastors and ask God to show you. Not every good sounding pastor is going to be from God. A real pastor will have sermons that dig into your soul and tear it to shreds with the conviction it causes. That's because they speak Bible, not man. God's word is a sword. I'm glad you were helped at the time by Steven, but if you want meat, please consider seeking out a real man of God who teaches God's word honestly and like our King Yeshua, he doesn't hold back. Also, being a theologian doesn't mean you won't be deceived by feeling. The best deceivers will sound like they are speaking doctrine of God. They may even quote God's word letter for letter, but they deny the power thereof and if you listen, you hear it. Just please be careful my friend and watch out for the broad barbed road. Stay narrow and God bless.
It is all about God. I found it kinda of funny and sad when they kept on saying my church. But who I am I. I just want to have a deep relationship with the lord. God lives in me. I want to love like Jesus loves. I hope and pray he lives in these men. Jesus was awsum. No home, no wife, no belongings, no church. and he walked in the power and in trust of his father. Relationship. Why do we keep ignoring these writings in the bible. I always wonder that, but I have a good idea why we do. I want relationships. Lord I praise you I thank you for what you have done. Thank you lord. Love you lord. There should be never no debates, it is a waist of time. Time is short. It is not about us. It is about him.
You are exactly right Furtick I believe is headed for a train wreck because it’s his way or the highway the way he carries himself is that of a bad boy gangster or better than you I have been of and on for the last year listening his egotistical
I think when he says “my church” he just means the congregation he is in charge of ministering to. He’s just differentiating between the church he is the head pastor of verses the church that Matt Chandler is the head pastor of. If they both were to specifically say “God’s church” or “the Church” it would be really confusing to understand their conversation as a listener. But I totally agree with everything you've said. Amen!
Impossible to know the background on this. Appears to be something taken out of context to make a point. A point of what, I wonder? All I see is one man put into a position to have to defend himself and he did so respectfully and in a godly way. Makes me wonder why was he put into that position. ??? Why would anyone try to make another man living for God defend his way of living for God. That creates division within the church and not unity. It looked like one man was taking criticism and standing up for himself and complimenting someone who appeared to be attacking him. This is taking the focus off of God and putting onto his servants. Why? Why is that ok? The world has enough division. The last thing the church needs is Christians telling one another the right way to serve God. Love God, love people. I watched this wondering, “What is the point here?” Why was this shared? To honor God? I just stumbled upon this and now I’m bothered from what I just heard. That said, I know there is a context that is missing. Why is that? And why is this so old lol? It says as I type here,” Remember to keep comments respectful and follow our Community Guidelines.” Attacking another Christian who is serving how he is called to serve seems to go against “respect.” Seemed to have an agenda and I wonder why. Hopefully, whatever has gone on people can put their focus back on God and be grateful for any and all who help bring good to this world. 🙏🏼 Just a passerby who left wondering what someone else said too, “What did I just watch?”
Agenda it did have back then, my friend. i remember this video way back when...i believe it came out 2010 or 2011, it was supposed to be an ongoing series (i believe) called the Elephant Room...probably named by some clever reformed dude...but i digress. It was taken down shortly after it "aired" bc it became really controversial in the evangelical world, AND bc it was clear that the reformed dudes put it all together to gang up on t.d. jakes and furtick. it was impossible to find for a while...guess it's resurfaced since then...kinda funny. anyways, hope that gives you some context
Hence the name "Elephant Room"...get a bunch of reformed guys ganging up on 2 "blasphemers" and "false prophets" so they can all discuss the....elephant...in...the....room....bc...those guys are probably going to hell....right? anyways i digress again
Jamie Paull I was searching for a comment like this and I’m happy to see it towards the top of the section. A lot of division going on here in the vid and comments. And for what purpose? I have no idea. But you’re right. Jesus made it very plain for us. Love God, love people. I’m not saying knowledge is a bad thing, but I feel like we sometimes let our knowledge about God guide us, rather than our relationship with God. There is plenty to do with such little time to do it. And as long as other believers are spending time doctrine checking and scheduling times to bring people on broadcasts so they can rebuke them in public...what God has commanded us to do will take a lot longer to get done.
In clarity & in Totality, not sure what they are "trying to clarify" but (regardless) True "Christians/Disciples"=Christ Followers> are ALL appointed by God to tell others (IF) "others" idealogy/teaching/preaching does Not allign to Biblical Doctrine > "others" wrongdoings !!!! (Why) is this so important you may be thinking (because) Biblcial Doctrine is Not what you "think" or what anyone "thinks" > Biblical Doctrine is an Supreme Ordinance in "Reproof" of the "bearing witness"(see 1st John 5:7 & 5:8 in coalition to John 1:14 to Galitians 2:20 to John 3:3) in/through Gods Diety of Ordinance/Requirements of Power "Made Manifested" unto the foundation of the world!!! This is (why) > false teachers/pagans (NEED) to be "called out" in distorting Gods Word in representing a "false narrotive" to the masses, who have been granted a "pedestal" to false teach/preach in secular society. Its one thing to be a "false witness" , but its another to be a "false fitness" while distorting Gods Word in process to be manipulative & deceitful in leading (people who do seek truth) astray!!! Not everyone who teaches has a "good intention" unto the true "will of God" .... Reproof IS Always in order & in clarification unto Biblical Doctrine. & heres my proof not because i say so, but unto Gods say so ! >> 2 John 10 King James Version (KJV) 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 2 John 9 King James Version (KJV) 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. The world has division (because) only few are "reproofed" in/through Biblical Doctrine, in what do i mean by this you may ask. The secular pagan churches have water downed the Gospel so much that Gods Spirit has left those churches because the church itself or in its appointed of who teaches/preaches at it does not Exhort Biblical Doctrine & thus people go to church as a "self ritual/feel good" thing Versus being seared by The Gospel Sword thereof unto the piercing of The Gospel in/through Biblical Doctrine of Ordinance unto Repentence, blood of Christ, confronting sin/s & dealing with sin/s, being "convicted of sin/s > by Holy Spirit, obtaining Gods Righteousness that IS holy spirit of God, & is new creature in this life in doing the will of God through Christ "made manifested" by the John 3:3 "conclusion" of being Born Again! Not pointing at anyone or anything in particular , just clarifying as to "why" Biblical Doctrine is so important in coalition to your response in that not everything is fairy dust, unicorns, & happy meals.... When dealing with something as serious as any persons "Eternal Salvation" & (why) in Totally unto > Gods Supreme Ordinance/Requirement/Doctrine of Gods Sovereign Diety Power of Existence. & this IS why the world is fallen & theres a "broad path" to the place of the gnashing of the teeth!
Jamie Paull I understand what you’re saying and I think you have the truest intentions of not wanting division in the church. However, every Christians must be rooted in the word. We must guard our thoughts and bring it captive under the feet of Jesus. You must test every beliefs to see if it’s worthy of the kingdom of God. This is why doctrine matters - it’s not about getting it right but by dying to ourselves and our cultural beliefs and carrying the cross after Jesus in obedience to the Father’s will.
Driscol , Perry, and Jmac all have devastated the congregations they were pastors of. I attended Harvest in Riverside for over 22 years. I've seen that church turn into a seeker sensitive church. They have been always building new buildings now new campuses. One year when the economy was crashing and I was struggling to make mortgage they started a fundraising program to buy more property on adjacent streets and one large plot on the east side of the existing school. They put up a "thermometer" sign to show their progress in raising $14M for a parking lot there. The construction was just about done when one week I noticed yellow caution taping off about a third of the completed lot. Then the next week all that area was demoed. I was astonished! Found out later there was a construction code snafu and the inspector yellow tagged it. That was over 8 years ago. It still is only half finished on what they told us was the plan. Instead they opened campuses in Corona, Orange county, Woodcrest, and maui. I left over three years ago.
@Nathanael Inman, we don't need this to drag on. I'm not sure where you got the word "debate" because it's not in scripture. Yes, they discussed. These gentlemen are: a) criticizing each other b) doing it in front of everyone. According to 1 Corinthians 6, if the objective is building each other up, the approach should be more discreet. Now, lest I drop to the level of gossip and slander myself, I'm dropping this.
@@blazeovich Acts 15:2,7 mentions debate. When Paul opposed Peter in Galatians 2, a benefit of doing it publicly was that those around would also know the error. We're told to refute those with bad doctrine in Titus 1:9. So long as the men are respectful and not purposefully slanderous or leaning on ad-hominem attacks, biblically-based debate can be wildly helpful for those listening to see truth.
Nauseating. Like seriously. My heart is breaking for people who I once thought were wise and mature Christians who have jumped on this cult of personality bandwagon. This just furthers my disdain for the Americanized church in general.
TKfamily 96 honestly! I don't even go to church anymore. I hardly trust people when they say they are Christian nowadays which is kinda sad...but at least I trust God.
@@uniqoEnEsp if you are close to God and ask him what church to go to "HE WILL" guide you. Just not going to church period because of a bad experience is foolish.
Tim Cox I know, I haven't done enough of that. It's just hard because you meet people that seem to teach the truth but then you start to find out they also teach false things. I trust God will lead me to the right church once the times is right. He's always lead me away from the false ones and towards the truth.
@@uniqoEnEsp Its definitely draining! All the false preaching churches you and "I" have attended were apart of Gods plan to give us better discernment over false preachers! That's how you gotta look at it brother, God bless you and good luck with the plan that God has for you!
Why is everyone criticizing? I don’t know Matt chandler tbh but I frequently listen to Furtick. He’s constantly talking about the death and resurrection of Christ, and consistently pointing people to the cross, which is the role of every single Christian. His style might not be for you, and that’s okay. But please notice the irony in how Chandler sits there and mentions a sound bite and how things can get wildly taken out of context, and that’s exactly what’s happening in this 5 minute video. Debates can be good. Arguing to be right or dominate others is not good. And nowhere in this video do I see any hatred, just health, peace, and love while discussing points of views. Also, please realize, these men are on a timer. They’re trying to speak as quickly to get their points across. I see a lot of comments putting Furtick down for saying “my church.” It’s clear he’s just trying to speak quickly. If you listen to his sermons, he ALWAYS gives the glory to God and talks about how he’s just a vessel. We are one body. The hand will be comfortable with fingers but not toes. There’s going to be different styles of churches. But as long as it preaches the true gospel, preaching the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the forgiveness of sins, and the gifts God gives (grace, the Holy Spirit, eternal life)...then thats that. There’s more I’d love to say, but I doubt anyone will have made it this far in the comments (: No matter what, we’re family in Christ.
He is consistently theologically incorrect. He builds on emotion and puts the individual before Christ. He lifts us selp and self-help instead of only Jesus. It is just Jesus. When asked about things he said that are completely wrong, he uses words like hyperbole or painting a picture... and disregards accuracy in teaching the WORD OF GOD. Mentioning Jesus and His resurrection is not all it takes to be a pastor or even an evangelist. You have to respect it and only teach the truth in the context of the entire book. One popular criticism is his sermon where he said Jesus broke the law for love. Jesus can not break the law and said specifically that He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it. When God makes a promise, He can not break it. Not because He is limited, but because of it is not His character. If Jesus could break the law then what promise of God can we stand on? None because if He broke the first covenant He made with Abraham, He can break the one He made with us. Furtick gives people sweetened condensed milk, not healthy milk for babies in Christ, not meat that mature Christians need, sweet milk that will keep some coming back time after time for their dessert. Depth in scripture isn't meant to be confusing or an excuse not to talk to our neighbors. It is realizing that we will never ever reach the bottom of who God is but being desperate for as much as we can get in these earthly bodies. The sheep in Furtic's church were starving to death and cried out for sustenance and he turned away from them. A good shepherd points to the savior and leads their sheep to good pasture.
+Meaghan Linhart --Criticizing? Jesus says to BEWARE of false teachers, which is what Chandler has fallen into since hooking up with the Gospel Coalition, and Furtick writes himself into the Bible in every "sermon" AND says that if one is born again in Christ, his church is no longer for you.. THAT says a lot.. Research the characters before calling us "all one body". We're WARNED in the Bible to MARK and AVOID false teachers, to NOT participate in their evil in 2 John 1:9-11
@@user-ck5hp1cy8o Don't know if you understood my comment. I'm basically saying any church that is run by man (God has left that church) even though that church may ' profess' to be the church of Christ, it isn't the church of Christ since they have rejected God and His Word, He no longer is there.
I think when he says “my church” he just means the congregation he is in charge of ministering to. He’s just differentiating between the church he is the head pastor of verses the church that Matt Chandler is the head pastor of. If they both were to specifically say “God’s church” or “the Church” it would be really confusing to understand their conversation as a listener. But I totally agree with you! It is God’s church and it should be lead as such, with God in it and not with their own selfish ambition.
I don’t see a debate here. What I see is two parts of the Body of Christ doing what they was called to do. I believe Chandler speaks to the mind of the people who what more knowledge about God and Furtick speaks to the heart of the people who need to change. Neither one is more important than the other. “ The human body has many parts, but the many parts make up one whole body. So it is with the body of Christ.” 1 Corinthians 12:12 NLT
Furtick preached thru the new testament in 30 days while John Macarthur spent, was it 42 years? Preaching through the new testament. There’s a contrast in depth for ya
Augustine. C hello. Just a few thoughts. He never said he “preached” through the NT in 30 days. No preacher (including MacArthur) is preaching every day for 30 days to their congregation. He said he led them through it, like in a daily bible reading. Be a better listener.
Are we criticizing preachers for the TEMPO with which they preach through Scripture now? That's just sad. If you can't find it in your heart to bless him, at least leave him alone.
I wonder why people are so hostile on this page. It think it is obvious that both men Lord God and have a passion for reaching the lost. They just go about it differently and are passionate about how they do it! Their passion is evident in their intensity for their position. But haven't we seen this before? Remember Paul and Barnabos had a HUGE falling about about John Mark, so much so, they went their separate ways. Read Acts 15:35-41 and tell me if this isn't similar. Disagreements will happen in the church. Its a consequence of diversity. Both men have different approaches and both men win souls for Christ. We, as the ones reading and commenting, have to realize this and not escalate a disagreement in point into something that isn't glorifying to God.
@Forg1ven S1nner According to Orthodox and Catholic Christians, all protestants are heretics. And Catholics and Orthodox believe each other to be schismatics. Some protestants probably believe the former two to be heretics as well. So everyone is a heretic to someone else. The word has lost its meaning to me.
Completely missed the point. A church will only be as biblical as the preaching. Biblical preaching is led by the Holy Spirit. Unbiblical churches are led by wanna be rock stars like Furtick.
@Trey Fontenet I thought you were saying the commenter was cursing.. the only word I can see in the comment that can be mistaken for a cuss word would be "hell". So I was just clearing that up. It wasn't really a big deal I was just clearing that up for some who may come across this comment.
WRONG, his anti-Christ Statement was made earlier this year. If you think that this tool of satan has progressed in the image of Christ, it's apparent that you have not, declaring the reality that you are as damaged and lost as furtick.
I think I'm gonna stick with my Bible and prayer and ask God to show me His truth and not depend on any man and their version of the truth, even with their best intentions.
When Furtick makes the statement that 'if what you mean by Doctrine is teaching something so abstract that you don't even know how to go home and treat your wife...' is a Knee-jerk, misdirection answer. Though I don't call myself a Reformer I hold more to what they believe far more than Emergent Church, feel-good, watered-down gospel. Most good reformed churches preach on many deep and important things such as What is Salvation and what is it Not, the Holiness of God, living the Christian life by following & obeying Jesus, what does it mean to be Sanctified (to be set apart), dying to self, fleeing from sin, trusting in the Lord during the Peaks & the Valleys and so on. And they don't ignore how husbands should treat their wives either. We just live in an age where Hyper-growth churches are all about the Numbers and little or no concern on The Whole Counsel of God, Making Disciples, emphasizing Holiness, putting on the Mind of Christ and so many Big Doctrines that cause Transformation. We are to be Renewing our Minds every week, not seeking man-invented angles on Solving the Problem of the day. Did God say to Job when he lost it all and was filled with sores 'here take this sap from a plant or tree and all your problems will go away instantly'? By no means, he wanted Job to trust him through the Valley and learn who he (Job) was and learn who the Lord God is first.
Furtick wants to dumb-down the gospel to reach a wide audience. But, he ends up selling short since people can digest the hard things if the preacher is willing to preach it.
@@zachjones8996 I agree. I don't think people should have to digest AND apply sermons to their lives. Steven presents simple ideas with God at the center, and it is up to the individual listening to take the message to heart and apply it to their life.
I literally know nothing about this youth pastor looking guy, but your comment is kind of unfair, he doesn't claim to have made a deep study to the level that MacArthur did, I mean, I took a semester of NT overview classes in college, is that bad cause it's not 30 years ?
@@chopperdave43 GOOD video.. You Tube Search John MacArthur Blood of Christ and MacArthur Mark of the Beast. May want to keep those handy too.. ALSO Check out Ray Comfort's new video about Hollywood - watch carefully and see what I mean.. especially Ray's hands.. That *flattened* me!
To all the Furtick haters I see here in the comments: you have every right to your opinion (for whatever it’s worth). However, instead of criticizing him for preaching what you feel like is “incorrect,” why don’t you consider how many people have been brought to Christ because of him. No preacher is perfect, and no doctrine is perfect. That’s simply because any doctrine is filtered through the eyes of our humanity and personal experience with the Word of God and the Holy Spirit. The Bible doesn’t say judge judge judge-that’s God’s job. But, it does say to love (in fact, it repeats this instruction over and over and over again). So I’m not trying to be a hater of the haters here. I’m just hoping we can put it in perspective. Tons of people go to his church, tons don’t stay. They’re in and out. But, if they meet Christ, if God uses that moment to save a soul, then GOOD! In fact, it was at Elevation that I was saved more than 5 years ago. I’ve been an avid follower of Christ and student of the Word ever since. I no longer go to Elevation, but I do give them the credit they’re due. And if nothing else, God can use such an institution to reach the lost and transform lives. I say that’s a GREAT thing!
1 Corinthians 5:12-13 English Standard Version (ESV) 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church[a] whom you are to judge? 13 God judges[b] those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.” John 7:24 ESV / 26 helpful votes Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.” 1 Corinthians 6:1-20 ESV / 8 helpful votes When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers,
Hominem I don’t know exactly what you’re trying to imply with your scripture reference. I don’t feel like it’s fair to take it out of context. The verse and those surrounding it are simply saying don’t just talk the talk, you have to walk the walk. So, I don’t really see the relevance here since that has nothing to do with Furtick. It’s up to the individual to search the scriptures and live a life according to God’s will as laid out in the Word and from the Holy Spirit.
Kris Hanke Matthew 7:1-5 King James Version (KJV) “7 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.” -- Here’s my problem with both of these responses. They seek to undermine the true intention of my comment with scriptures taken out of context. Was it not possible to seek what I was truly trying to say? All I wanted to express was that people are doing a disservice to the church (as a whole, not Elevation) by talking bad about a man of God in a comments section on TH-cam when they themselves aren’t perfect either. None of us are perfect except within His perfection, it’s not something we can be on our own. And instead of seeing my point and trying to find common ground, all that was done here was listing of irrelevant scriptures, which just makes this whole thread look like a great example of a silly Christian fight. Not that we’re fighting. I hope we’re not! That’s not my intention. If there are any further responses, I won’t be responding. I’ve spoken up according to what the Holy Spirit unctioned, and that’s all that needs saying. Farewell 💙 -- 1 Corinthians 6:1-20 just proves my point. Paul is essentially saying that they should do right by their brother, not sue them in court. The verses weren’t talking about social judgement like I was in my original comment. I was talking about judging in the sense of Matthew 7:1-5 (see above). John 7:24 Here Jesus was talking about judging with wisdom because He healed a man on the sabbath. For goodness sake, He was defending Himself against those who were accusing Him of wrongdoing, and accusing Him of being demon possessed. Again, He was not talking about social judgement. We have to keep scripture in the context of its meaning. 1 Cor 5:12-13 Even this one is taken out of context. Here Paul is saying that believers should be careful not be corrupted by people who aren’t of the faith. “A little leaven leavens the whole lump.” He’s encouraging them to be sincere and truthful, and warning them against those that aren’t. He’s trying to protect them.
Euroflower Yeah I think will have to disagree. I think if you read the context of the very first verse that is talked about just at least ye be judged. You’ll see that it’s actually telling you how you should judge that you shouldn’t have That same sin or guilty of the same thing to remove it before you approach your brother don’t forget those last verses.. The problem is is that the worldview of judgment is that we look down upon them. Scriptural and righteous judgment is that we understand and that we go to them and explain to them that what you’re doing is wrong. There’s a very different approach and understanding of biblical judgment. There’s also different kinds of judgment one would be Salvatory the other might be disciplinary and punishment for something that you’ve done against worldly laws or the laws set forth by state and government. The point of the first verse is to restore your brother. In the same with a lot of the other passages the whole point is that we’re reaching out in love. But we also need to be cautious that we are guilty of the same thing. So to say the Christians are not to judge is completely anti-biblical because over and over again it is talked about in restoring others
So shallow, Gods word should be high and lifted up, not whatever this was. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
Where's the rest of this dialogue? I think it's good for the body to respectfully work through differences and dare I say, grievances in this way. They're not tearing each other down personally, but focusing on teaching, which is good. I would love to see what comes next and whether they respond gracefully to one another.
For everyone saying “There is no glorifying God here” . These a guys are basically broadcasting their coffee talks. This was from a series called The Elephant Room. Where they all debate. Iron sharpens iron. In way, it does glorify God and it gives you an interesting perspective on what they believe and how they present it. In my opinion, Driscoll is on.
Amen bro! Iron sharpens iron! I think, according to scripture, that this exactly what we need in the body of Christ. We all need to set put our “denominations” and bias’ aside and just come together to build on the Christ as our true foundation.
It’s unfortunate that Furtick so believes that any Biblical doctrine is so abstract that it cannot be applied. The knowledge of God is the most fundamental character of the Christian life. This is why Peter’s wish is that his readers grow in grace and in the knowledge of God (2 Pet. 3:18). In fact, John equates the knowledge of God with our ability to stop sinning (1 John 3:6). The knowledge of God is immanently applicable, and is the foundation of any righteousness that we have. The problem isn’t the preaching of abstract theology, it is the failure to show how it may sink to our hearts and consume our affections. Furtive preaches application upon application, but what good is this when it is divorced from the knowledge of God, the very foundation of any Biblical application? Christian living in the truest sense cannot be divorced from the knowledge of God in the way that he’s doing here.
@@josephdesouza4128 Sad indeed ..many of these Pastors are out because they got themselves in trouble..McDonald, Mark Driscoll, then Matt Chandler is with the apostate Southern Baptist bunch, Steven Furtick adds himself to the Bible every time he preaches, it is SAD, and what's SADDER is that TOO MANY listen to the ones still "Pastoring" -- like Steven Furtick.. We WERE warned in Scripture though about the "falling away" of the church into apostasy, and here we are! Jesus is coming for His Church/Bride SOON! Watch.. our redemption draws ever so nigh! \o/
Luke Hanson Please don’t take this like I’m trying to be too sarcastic or hateful. This is my perspective over the years as to what I feel like God has shown me personally when it comes to modern day church culture. By no means am I saying all churches are like this either - so there’s that. I think they mean apostate by the fact that these pastors and churches care more about image, having a Facebook marketed ministry, and being hip cool and relevant in today’s world and trying to draw in as many numbers as possible for what seems to be for the sake of their own ego. Not to mention that a lot of them in this group are reformed Calvinist which is a gross error when it comes to interpreting God’s character and colors everything else they believe and how they think (thus fully disabling the importance of human free will in our daily walks) I don’t hate them by any means, but when these churches should be teaching on stuff that The Fuel Project covers here on TH-cam in the series called Know Your Enemy, they just keep preaching the basic 2+2 equals 4 theology and never press into more depth because they only know what their religion of men theological seminaries taught them. A lot of the big churches are popular culture obsessed, cappuccino latte, “getting my house remodeled so please pray for me that it goes well” type churches these days. I think this is what they meant by apostate southern Baptist circuit
@@banditlegal7452 Don't throw out "heretic" like that. Heresy is always revolved around how Christ is taught. Is he God? if not...then it's heresy. Everything else is up for debate. I don't believe they are heretics. I do believe these 3 guys specifically are unqualified for Pastoral Ministry.
@@evansavage7955 there are many ways to qualify teachers as heretics! You can find them out by what they they teach or what they don't teach for example, charismatic preachers replace the gospel of Christ as on to receive to through repentance and Faith in Jesus, then walk in obedience and sanctification by the guidance of the Holy Spirit in the word, but the charismatic preachers Preachers deliver wealth and health gospel. They said God wants to be wealthy and healthy.
Demoss Negmorne No, I agree with the OP that definition of heresy is ahistorical. Everything you mentioned is important, but are 2nd or 3rd order matters of debate. The word heresy is reserved for matters of first importance (theology proper, Christology). Don’t know as much about Noble, but the other two didn’t preach anything heretical. They are bad men, disqualified, liars, whatever you want to say about that is probably true. However I’ve had the word heretic thrown at me for not being a dispensationalist, which of course is asinine. Doesn’t do our core and mutual doctrinal beliefs any good by throwing that word around so casually. You mentioned their actions. their actions are certainly hypocritical, but not heretical as it’s defined throughout church history
@@harrykellett2061 camlhyde.com/blog/2020/3/5/its-time-to-walk-away-from-steven-furtick. You can find his clip here... He is a protégé of TD Jakes a well known modalist.....he says Jesus is changing forms at minimum he is denying Hebrews 8. But given his history and other comments he is a modalist.
@@tannermoldenhauer5876 1st John 5:7 & 5:8 is crystal clear on the 3 bearing witnesses & unto the linkage to also John 1:14. As word became flesh & dwelt among us. In conclusion someone should educate furtick on the "separation" when God forsake Christ on cross for our sin/s , as God can not come into contact with sin/s. I wonder what "form" answer Furtick would reply too if he was asked what "form" Jesus bore on cross when God "separated" from Christ. Good video on catching that as I pulled it up to see. They are "heretics" everywhere now days. God bless.
When we build and center the local church around one church role (a single teacher/pastor), this will always give the body of believers less and not more. To borrow a term I've heard, this will always yield a stunted expression of the Body of Christ. This comment isn't directed at these gentlemen. I just feel sad at the current state of the modern church.
Mark Witmer Couldn’t agree more. When chuck missler was asked a question in one of his Q&A’s about 10 years ago as to what the biggest challenge new pastors coming into the churches would face, his answer: EGO. He nailed it
5:00 min mark Furtick: “we fasted for 11 days” Jesus: ““When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.” Matthew 6:16 NIV Just one of the many examples of furticks nonsense on full display
Honestly asking this question as I have found a few of furticks sermons to be very helpful in getting back on the right path. Can you elaborate more on how furtick is heretical?!
Kyle Wilson Jams sure, in a broad sense he distorts the Word of God in each of his sermons to be about us, instead in the true context of its written form. God is for His glory, not ours. He’s also said that God broke the law. He does not exegete the scripture, he distorts it.
Are we criticizing preachers for the TEMPO with which they preach through Scripture now? That's just sad. If you can't find it in your heart to bless him, at least leave him alone.
Steven furtick is legit! I’m glad God uses him and brings people to Christ! That’s all that matters!! Cmon folks! Ok, it’s nice to have an understanding of the Bible but cmon! People need to get of their high horse with all their doctrinal knowledge and their exegetical baggage! All it creates is a Mr/Mrs know it all! Let me tell you! That doesn’t build people up! Jeez! Even Christ said you read the scriptures and yet you fail to see that it’s all about him!Pointing people to Christ and letting God do the work is what helps people experience the Holy Spirit to build kingdom people for Gods Glory!!
This seems to be a pretty old clip, but Furtick is still saying all the same things without tying in much scripture or doctrine. His church blends a lot of "feel good" messages and about self-discovery. Where is the Gospel in that?
I for one thought it was really good. I have always thought down on Furtick and it was good to hear his side of things. It seemed like they were addressing their issues to make peace. (Beatitudes say they will be called children of God right?) It seems to be following scripture because we are supposed to address people we have a problem with and since these are public issues they need to be dealt with publicly. (According to scripture)
@@azzo3050 ...Twist not Scripture, lest ye be like Satan... Read that text in context before quoting it, i.e the whole chapter Matthew 7 and you'll clearly see that it actually talks about correct judgment and not condemnation of judging which is what you seem to believe BTW By quoting it you just judged me incorrectly which is exactly what that text talks against
Dude when was this debate, when I clicked on this I thought it was some other furtick I didn't think it was THE STEVEN FURTICK of elevation church, and Steven looks a lot different from what he looks like now, how old was he in this video and what year was this video
@@nathancoppinger6484 yeah as soon as i put this comment, I saw the actual debate in the next recommendation for after the video, and watch that, was pretty cool
This was YEARS ago... I think Furtick has grown alot over the years, there’s still some things that I don’t agree with all the time, but I’ve seen growth.
This interaction is so disappointing. I don't see how this models how to lovingly bring correction to a BROTHER. Rather it appears to polarize people as enemies in the pastor-celebrity culture.
I listened to a few furtick sermons on my drive to work and my first thought was, seems more like a motivational speaker/life coach vs pastor. Is that accurate or no?
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Spurgeon said: "If you have to give a carnival to get people to come to church, then you'll have to keep giving carnivals to keep them coming back."
That’s right!!!! Loud music, coffee and clowns who preach circus 🤡 church 🎪 garbage!! Unbiblical and not of God Almighty!!
God is good and Elevation is amazing! Love hearing the word of God from Steven Furtick.
@@chrizzle30 which word of which god? God Almighty doesn’t change His word for the preacher, the god of this world does.....😉😉
@@bradbashem5916 when was the Word changed at Elevation Church tho?
@@candace6893 when his preaching changes biblical truths, THATS when it was changed......you can be right with scripture 9 times and wrong 1 time and then you’re not speaking from God Almighty......discernment is very much needed
When you start preaching on stuff other than scripture and the Gospel and start preaching on your own thought it becomes very dangerous.
I would beg to say that most preachers preach about their thoughts and they use the Bible as their source. Everyone has their own interpretation of the Bible and they’re going to preach what they believe
Blake Taylor so are you saying that it’s good to preach what you think is true?
@@blaketaylor7317 2 Peter 1:20
But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation
The Bible means what is says. It must be in context with its original meaning as it was presented to the original audience. We cannot go abstract with Scripture to make it fit an agenda.
@Micah Blessing well I mean yeah you’re not going to preach what you think is false lol
@Jimmy Ruquet But regardless people are still going to preach what they understand to be true. Nobody interprets the Bible the exact same way, and a preacher is going to preach what he believes is the truth and there’s no getting around that fact
I wanna see Furtick vs Washer
@Monica VanDeventer he wouldn't spare him embarrassment in order to rebuke him. Chandler was to soft with how he approached furtick.
It is below Washer to waste his time on a debate like this. Washer is a no non-sense man when it comes to standing on the authority of God. I doubt he would even accept an invitation like this..and if he did Washer would smoke him in a debate.
Washer wouldn't be this charismatic in his approach. Instead of Washer pointing out the issues he has with Furtick (or potentially even Chandler for that matter) Washer would spend his time preaching the Gospel and comparing it as the measure of Furticks success/failure.
That said I dont believe Washer would attend an event like this because it does nothing to further the Kingdom of God and win souls for the Body of Christ.
Paul Washer can bring us to our knees...powerful for teaching to repent & follow Jesus Christ..I put my hand on Paul Washer..he is teaching TRUTH!!
@@leofogarty6590 PAUL WILL ABSOLUTELY SMOKE STEVEN..BUT WHAT I LOVE ABOUT PAUL IS "THE TRUTH" IS GIVEN. NO LUKEWARM THERE...WE NEED TO REPENT!!!! AND FOLLOW JESUS & WHAT HE CAME HERE FOR. PAUL WASHER COMES FROM THE SAME PLACE HE LIVES...HE COME WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. GOD BLESS YOU!
Don't ever forget you need God not God needs you. It's His Church not yours. Focus on Him and not yourself.
th-cam.com/video/J2LBfIMfSVI/w-d-xo.html
Amen
Drop the mic! Amen
Very true
It's a hallucination
Furtick," I just led my church through the N.T. in 30 days".
John Macarthur, "We just finished going through the whole N.T. after 40 yrs."
Me,"Guess which one was more in depth with the deep doctrinal truths of the holy word of God"?
That’s great.. unless you also wanted to talk about stuff in the Old Testament.. in which case you would have had to wait 40 years to do so..
@@jacobburgin7472 Its not like you can read the Bible on your own, and watch other people talk about it?
@@Redsniperxrays yes but if that’s your church, and your pastor, you might want to actually go through some Old Testament stuff with your own pastor. I’m sure macarthurs was more in depth. if furtick had spent 40 years instead of 30 days going through the New Testament That would’ve gone more in depth than his 30 series as well-that’s kinda obvious lol. But to use that as a knock on Furtick is just really dumb bc that’s so obvious and expected
Sooo.... it might take someone 40 years to grasp the meat of the NT? 🤭🤭🤭
That's just sad. You ought to be able to read the NT daily and fully. It's not that complicated. Jesus Is pretty clear and so were the disciples. The rest is decorative.
I read the NT in one day. Gotcsaved in less than a year. And been chewin on it for ten years. Insights are revealed in God's timing... not yours. ✌
This video is a prime example of why “church” as it has become in America, is no longer about the body of Christ. It’s a social event, a career choice, a three ring circus. It has COMPLETELY lost the heart of being about a relationship with God and His people. 😔🤦🏼♀️
Danielle Wilson
Right on the target.
Colton Weeks Thoughtful of you, but the last thing I want to do is leave one religion (modern day evangelicalism) for another. I will keep my relationship with Christ and forego the circus of church. 💒
Ekklesia 7 In my experience, they know quite a bit of scripture, there’s just not a lot of humility to go with it. 💕
Danielle Wilson someone gets it
Danielle Wilson did you hear the whole thing and have you listened to Pastor Steven Furtick preach and are you aware of the hundreds of thousands of dollars he’s provided churches with to help reach communities during this COVID nightmare we live in? I’m not being cruel...what I’m saying is that simply talking about the body of Christ in a slanderous judgemental way off of a clip (or at all for that matter) is doing God’s job. We are the bride of Christ and a house divided against itself will not stand. I don’t know if your faith is in Jesus, but I would ask anyone who is, to consider their tone and contributions online because pointing out the issues doesn’t sow anything beneficial into God’s kingdom. We need to stand up and say “I’m sorry people of the world...for all who have been hurt by the church. I personally was hurt by churches and by all kinds of people in the fallen world we live in, but I have come to realize that people and God are 2 different things. So I now stand with my fellow believers, humbled, restored, and lovingly inviting you (and EVERYONE) back to join as one body.” Evil is against us and has nothing to offer except death and disease and brokenness. Jesus Christ will always be victorious even if a debate on TH-cam makes it seem otherwise. I challenge all to seek God, set aside whatever has happened to turn you away, and you’ll come to find He is the only one worthy of praise! Again, all this said in a kind and respectful tone, and because it needs to be said. I don’t want to be the one, but God has brought me thru Hell...thru tragedy and hardships that many will never have to experience thankfully! So my life is His forever and ever!! God bless you all!! ❤️
Chandler is an actual preacher. Furtick is just a word of faith motivational speaker.
Chandler is selling out to the CRT mob.
Furtick is an empty vessel who is willingly being used by the Holy spirit!
@@Wellness.Whole.Worthy huh?
I love both of them. And both are used for a specific type of group.
@@jmseven1 yeah, the lost that never get saved. They're a perfect group for Satan.
He's not even covering repentance in any of his sermons. Come on fam that's crazy....there's no saving in his churches without repentance. That's an easy one pastor Steven
He's a theological trainwreck biblically unqualified for ministry. He's a wanna be rock star cult leader for millennials. He's not a pastor.
“ When you compare yourselves by yourselves, you are not wise.“
Brothers and sisters, keep your eyes fixed on those walking and imitating Christ in truth, bearing the reproach outside the camp. (Hebrews 13)
May you have the boldness to testify to sin, righteousness, and the eternal judgement. Repentance and faith in Christ Jesus are the foundation, anything else is vanity.
Isn't it funny how the world is being shaken and how "the church" isn't a building anymore? It was never meant to be! Neither were any of these men meant to be the focal point of the congregation. God is speaking to us now! Think it's time we listened to Him more than any one or more human. Just a thought. While the things of this world are shaken God's truth will remain.
Amen Erix!
Amen, Christianity was NEVER meant to be a building, that came when Constantine made Christianity the state religion of Rome, lt's the worst thing to happen to Christian worship for its method of worship is derived from the Greek areopagus and emphasizes a tier structure.
It isn't 1st Century Christian worship where everyone was treated equally and each person was responsible for their own walk in faith.
Erix Eighty Music .... listen to John MacArthur...you will here PURE SCRIPTURAL TRUTH, not sugar coated & maybe will offend many...that is exactly fine with Paster John MacArthur..he came to tell the truth & if he didn’t offend anyone he is not doing what God placed in his heart! He speaks pure truth. God Bless you!
Kathleen Hannon I’m reading one of John macarthurs study bibles and I’m fascinated by a lot of his insight, you’re absolutely right when he said he isn’t afraid of preaching what God has put in him, he isn’t afraid of speaking the truth, I’m learning a lot from his teachings on the gospel but also praying and asking God for discernment and guidance through my reading so that I know what I’m reading is the truth
@@Steve_T14 Hi..so nice of you to reply to my comment. Pastor Johnny Mac is so on point. I too pray for discernment..So important to get the TRUTH! I have just order 4 books and can only read one at a time...lol...Feel free to reach out anytime..say hello..I will reply. I am looking for a Bible Study..one this gives us a good understanding of the time, geography, The Word!! Another Pastor I love is Allen Parr.."The Beat" on TH-cam..his vids are not long..his heart is precious..give him a good look..He is awesome. He is in Texas..his testimony is beautiful. Listen to him..you will be blessed..love to hear about John MacArthur's Bible Study..keep reading & building your personal relationship with Jesus & Im doing the same her..reach out..love to share our Lord with you. In Christ ✝️🙏💜
“Reformed community is not a big fan... (someone chimes in) not a big fan of anything.” I am reformed and I love this comment! 😂🤣😂
Me too🤣
Ya. I got a chuckle out of it lol
Mark Driscoll is the one who chimed in...if this happened this year, he probably said it because he has distanced himself from the reformed community.
See how they care on the way to the bank.
@ELUSIVE - Jusa fan of Fryer Jon "cookin" Kelvin tho, huh?....(5* K = temp at which human flesh melts)
Why is Matt chandler debating the guy from Green Day?
😂😂^^
CMON😂😂😂😂
😂
best comment ever.
@@dianebillanes5713 Hi Diane.
You can't separate doctrine from evangelism!
2 Timothy 4:3-5
3 For the time will come when they will not listen to the SOUND DOCTRINE, but having itching ears, will heap up for themselves teachers after their own lusts,
4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn away to fables.
5 But you be sober in all things, suffer hardship, do the work of an EVANGELIST, and fulfill your ministry.
formeyousee
Well Done!!!
It is hard to believe the Americanized church has moved so far from God while our brothers and sisters around the world are being imprisoned, beaten, tortured, and even martyred for just a handful of pages of the Holy Scriptures.
We have met the Laodicean church.
To think the Godhead paid the Ultimate Price which has been taken So Lightly.
HEARTBREAKING!!!
May the Good Lord Continue to Call-Out His Bride from the worldly system that has infected His Church!!!
Yes, even so Come Lord Jesus!!!
May God have mercy on our collective souls!
The key word in this passage is SOUND doctrine. Steven is talking about separating all of the other doctrines that have come about with regard to how, when, where, why evangelism should be done. Much of it is rooted in selfish ambition that seeks to dispense condemnation over people instead of showing the truth of the Gospel. If the doctrine is sound, then no need to separate the two.
The fact that the congregation is constantly referred to as a "crowd" or "audience" is pretty telling in it's own right...
I typically think of a congregation as a church family and think of church as a sermon, preferably exegetic preaching, and this is obviously none of that so I think it's fine to call it an audience.
@@byronboydstun2222 Yeah the audience was mostly pastors from around the country that wanted to attend. I thought some of the segments in both Elephant Room 1 and 2 were good. Some were pretty bad though.
True, great point.
byron boydstun oh wow...dang
Good observation 👍🏼
There is a dangerous disconnect, when you call the congregation, assembly, ekklesia, "The crowd", you've missed "The purpose".
Did you watch the whole sermon?
Good luck with that.
I can't listen to Stephen
Furtick for 5 min.
And I have on several occasions tried, but the Holy Spirit stirs me to flee.
I love the Father.
Discernment...
A beautiful gift from God
through His Holy Spirit that does dwell inside the truly saved.
The Holy Spirit never hinders me from watching His sermons...
Me neither… not once
I ccould never get into his sermons
I weep and prayfor this generation of believers that are being led by these weak/false shepherds that refuse to teach the truth of the word of God.
Its tragic that half of these pastors have been disgraced out of their churches since this was made
Sad to say the least.
Unfortunately so many of us Christians are more often influenced by the world and appearances than we are by the Holy Spirit and that leads us to preach from a purely legalistic point of view, which is the very thing Jesus spoke out against. There are more Pharisees in church today than there were in the time of Jesus' ministry, and that's why there's so much division amongst the body of Christ; the foot wants to tell what the hand should do, and the ear wants to tell what the nose should do. We have Christians debating amongst themselves, tearing eachother apart, instead of uniting under the Word of God. The lowliest excuse in defense of this spiritual cannibalism I've heard said was, "it's because we care about them and we want to help them", you don't even have to be a follower of Christ to see the utter hypocrisy in that. It's vanity; everything is vanity.
Neither: the Lord called us not to build a church but to preach His gospel and declare His glory.
ian vincent bucol that is true, Sir, but I would also add unto that by saying, “Our preaching of His gospel and declaring His glory is the building of the church itself, the body of Christ.” Your statement is good, because celebrity preachers are on the wrong paradigm. It’s not about numbers or popularity, it’s about the body of Christ itself, all the Christians that are trying to look upon the Lord Jesus, who died for them.
Mizael Mendez I got news for u... 99% of churches are just about the numbers... & DON’T preach the TRUTH or look NOTHING like the book of Acts... All these churches are STILL a part of their MAMA... the mother of harlots... the Catholic Church... show me different...😳
Truthseeker424 my friend that is not news to me. Those churchs that preach for merely numbers and entertainment are always there and are prevalent in their lack of theology and truth and abundance in lies and immorality. But then I say in reply, “Are those really churches?” Many say Lord, Lord but-you know the rest. I’m not referring to those man-made buildings, but I’m referring to the Church, the bride of Christ, that remnant, that few that will survive the wrath of God through His grace. We are talking about two different things.
don't forget making disciples...which builds the "church" body
Banter For Believers precisely...and that even more so!
Ben Stiller Vs. Matt Chandler
Ben Stiller vs. Paul Rudd
Ben Stiller vs. Dane Cook
I'm a really big fan this is the most liked comment yet.
Hahahahahahahaha haha gold
Absolutely amazing profile picture
Kudos to all these men. It’s a big risk to respond to God to share the gospel through social media platform these days. You will try to choose every word wisely and still people will judge you. You will try to glorify God and show everyone His image but still it is the pastor who is being seen. A pastor’s heart needs to be checked with God always because there is a very thin line between humility and recognition.
Speaking in general...I think Pastors (or more broadly men of God as a whole) should respectfully challenge each other in a professional manner to hold each other accountable. But to debate like this, in a public forum...what was to be gained? It makes them all look bad.
BoredAtWork2000 is agree, I think it also helps others to see there human side so not to put them on the lofty pedestal.
absolutely important for pastors to speak up to each other & bring it..bring the PURE TRUTH of JESUS...not the ego we all deal with all the time!
I think what is.. I'm going to say "fun" for lack of a better word... about this debate is that they ask a more light hearted question. The question asked is " preach to build church attendance vs. preach to build church attendees" which ultimately, the answer is Both. Every church should strive to bring new people in so that more people can come to know Jesus, but also make sure that the more mature believers are getting fed spiritually, and growing as well. And they know that, but I feel like this is basically like a debate club in a high school or college, where they make you pick a side even on an issue where both sides could be correct. More than likely, they brought them on and told them to pick any side and go with it. It doesn't really seem like its meant to be a challenge or even a means of accountability. I feel like its just a debate club for pastors lol.
There are the black and white areas ( i.e foundational truths that christianity is based on --> The Gospel and things that should never be taken out of context) and the gray areas (which are things that no matter which side you take, is the Gospel and foundational truths of Jesus really affected. Questions like " preach to build church attendance vs. preach to build church attendees" is just a gray area. No matter which they are preaching for, as long as they are preaching the Gospel and the Truth of Jesus, it doesn't really matter which side you're taking. I would definitely agree with you that this video doesn't really gain anything, and may make them not look the greatest, but I think it's just because the topic isn't a hard hitting topic and just a random topic that isn't meant to come to any conclusion
If it's not all about Jesus and his death,burial,and resurrection then it is nothing nada zilch! Happy Passover.
Very very Well said. Heard one preacher whom I won't name in here mentioned in his one sermon how, Charles surgeon's in all his sermons brings the gospel of Jesus Christ in full effect. In all surgeons sermons. Gospel must be the only centrifugal driving force behind every Christian song, be it dealing with heart break, death , depression or be it a sermon from Nehemiah , revelations, four gospels Corinthians, genesis, Leviticus or even song of Solomon or proverbs.
If it is anything deviating from it or watered down to cos it doesn't suit the mood the worship bands or pastors should rather start a country club and end it with Jesus name as a flavor. That can never be a church no matter how many ppl they can bring to justify it. They will all b filled with Goats.
@@1dropofblood amen! That's exactly right! It's all about Jesus, him crucified, buried, and resurrected. Nothing more, nothing less.
Happy BLESSED Passover
We are living in the time of Judges.... We have a generation who doesn't know the ways of The Lord....
What a bizarre video, nothing glorifying God here.
ian paterson my thoughts as well.
Futick is a wolf too . I be doing rebuking If I were like a Chandler . Perhaps that was when he was somewhat sound .. I dunno
@@timsharpe6652 Have you seen the video where Chandler was invited to Furtik church as a guest speaker? Wow Chandler does a good job there. He wasn't invited back after that.
I've seen your name in a few comments sections in regards to Christianity.
What a bizzare comment, nothing glorifying God here.
great video on False Furtick. th-cam.com/video/U0urTIw_Zqc/w-d-xo.html
4:45 = Furtick: "I led my church through the New Testament in 30 days." And therein lies the problem. Person drives up to menu board: "Yeah, God, I'd like a financial blessing and new house." Person looks to wife: "You want anything, honey?" Person turn back to speaker: "Oh yeah, we also want a healthy marriage and a side of good kids." God response: "Okay, no problem, it will take a few minutes to prepare that order because of the work required. I'll also need your full participation." Person: "WHAT?! I'm going to have to wait? Plus I have to get involved? Forget this! I'm going up to that Furtick place. They don't even expect me to bring my Bible with me!"
I flinched at that, too. Does he actually think it's a mark of responsible shepherding to blast through the entire New Testament in a month? smh
🤣🤣🤣🤣
He couldn't take the church through the New Testament in 30 years, God's Word is like God, unfathomable , if you lived 3 lifetimes you could never mine all of the treasures in God's Word, it's God breathed, not man breathed.
Pastor Furtick looks like a Chris Angel fan right here. He’s come a long way. 😂😂😂
Steven Furtick, Jesus Freak.
Doesn't look like the same person that I've listen too. I just started watching him on CBN a couple years ago. They must've been some really old old broadcast. Wow.
Pastor?? I don't think so... motivational speaker more like it...
Now hes hooking up with the False King of Gospel Joel.
Yeah long way from Jesus.
"I lead my church through the NT in 30 days." That proves the point. What depth will you have in the texts by going through the entire new Testament in 30 days or even 30 weeks? You can't do it
On point. My pastor takes a couple of months to go through one book. Lol
@@JuniorStil What is that church name?
@@self_aware_brokenness3005 CitylightLA in Burbank, CA
True. My church spent 6 years in romans
trying to figure out why y'all are comparing pastors. you don't know what the Lord told him to do. Christians miss me with that bull crap😂😂
Foolishness from “men of God”
“For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.”
Absolutely true!
Amen, these guys are making fun of God.
Right? Matt didn’t get angry which is more discipline then I think I could have had in his situation.
I am really tired of the celebrity pastors - who believe their own hype and know little of "take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and lowly of heart." Every time I see Furtick he looks like somebody different...
GuitarJr56 check this th-cam.com/video/J2LBfIMfSVI/w-d-xo.html
this was years ago tho
Im sorry but I can’t take Furtick serious with that haircut
I could say the same about Matt. Speaks from the flesh with his hands
I can’t take him serious with his doctrine...
I can't take either of them seriously
How about we don’t just based on appearances?
People complaining about this format or platform. Crazy talk! I love how we get to see what the pastors really think about each other. Really shows the humanity in them. Check the log in your own eyes brothers and sisters.
never0ending0faith thank you for saying that
Wow. Just wow. Leaders should be held to a higher standard. This is like a secular game show making them look like clowns.
They can show anything in front of cameras !
Stephen Rogers Church leaders aren’t holy angels who can’t sin. They have zero inability to not sin, just like every human. Nobody is perfect or will ever be perfect. One 1 person was perfect and that was Jesus. Pastors and church leaders are human just as the congregation. Just because they’re leader don’t mean they can’t still live in the world. Doesn’t mean they can’t go watch the new Star Wars movie or even go on a game show or concert. You need to change your views on that and be very careful the things you say about Gods people, especially ones who are anointed. Steven Furtick is very anointed and has brought a lot of people, including me through a lot of heavy battles.
Black Wolf i encourage you to go listen to people like David Wilkerson, Carter Conlon, Curry Blake, Reinhard Bonke, etc. They wouldn’t participate in this Tom Foolery. If you want to listen to worldly leaders then go ahead. At least you know what you are being fed.
I dont dislike Steven Furtick really at all. He has some pretty good messages, at least a handful. But the spirit in us can lead us to seperation from the world in many ways, if we submit to it.
I want to see Furtick vs McAurther
You're basically asking to see a massacre 🤣.
MacArthur will not waste his time on Furtick.
mac teaches faith plus works...also that you can take the mark of the beast and still go to heaven...….he teaches that salvation is a free gift but then in the same sentence he say it will cost you....he cant even get that right
Why is this showing on my feed ?
Very interesting to note the James MacDonald, the host, and Mark Driscoll have been fired from the churches they planted, while Furtick has gone almost all the way to the Prosperity Gospel.
How old is this video?
@@bsaw00 I believe its about 8 years old. This is the first time Ive seen it though. I think Jesus would be pretty upset that Christianity is being reduced to this. But I dont wanna be preachy
@@CultofGrace Thanks. Looked like it was old.
I have been listening to Furtick for years, and listened to one of his books. I haven't heard anything close to Prosperity Preaching. Do you have a sermon I can go to for an example of what you mean?
@@eethal7481 prosperity preaching doesn't necessarily have to mean that God will make you rich monetarily. Many people seem to think this and then come to the defense of their favorite pastors and say "He/she never told me God will give me money if I give him money!" Prosperity could be of any kind really, it could be in health, relationships, marriages etc... So the main problem here is this, and I appreciate your question I truly do and will respect whatever decision you come to after this, but the problem is this- These pastors, usually the celebrity pastors who preach in megachurches will tell you these things like "blessings are right in your reach", or "God will open the doors of heaven and give you your hearts desires, marriages will be strengthen, prodigal sons will come home, your cancer will go away etc .... But you must practice obedience to him and sow a seed offering of this or that"- thats the real problem here, telling people things God hasn't promised. Infact God has promised us things are meant to get worse for us Christians before things get better. Now thats not to say God cant heal people or restore relationships or brings home your prodigal son or daughter, he can indeed but only if its in his will, it has to be at his word, not at the word of some hipster pastor on a stage wearing designer jeans and muscle t-shirts with all due respect to pastors of that particular sort.
I hope this answered your question and like I said I respect whatever opinion you may have, all I ask is you stay in the word and be grounded because at the end of the day, its pastors like furtick who go home to a million dollar mansion to enjoy his steak and lobster dinner while common folks struggle to afford new school clothes for our kids. It can be easy to lose faith my friend, especially when these guys enjoy a life of luxery telling us we can have the same kind of life while God never promised us such, then we look to God to shake our fist in the air at him when our son has yet to come home from the crack house or our cancer made a comeback. Stay grounded my friend.
“Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.” - 1 Tim. 4:16
If an Orthodox Christian made the title for this video, it would be "Pot vs Kettle Debate"
@willpower242 Chandler and Furtick? They're false teachers and used by God? Uhh NO. Chandler wasn't bad until he got mixed up with the false Gospel Coalition.
Furtick has blessed me with his preaching and brought me closer to God many times. I am an educated theologian by the way. So if you want to judge the tree by it's fruit, you must take into consideration that there are many like me.
I'm glad, but just be wary of what you feel, because he feeds on that and draws people in. This world is all about being told what they want to hear, not what they should hear. He has since this clip, preached falsehood doctrine about what Jesus can and can't do. He has used emotion instead of calm biblical teaching. And yes preachers can do both, but his sermons have no salt, no flavor. They have the appearance of a good steak, but it's spoiled. I don't judge what I see until I see it. I hear how he speaks and at first he seemed like a decent preacher, but he is only doing this for money now. He is leading people from sound doctrine, he tries to put us weak humans on par with the almighty God, and this is just what Jesus warned against. TD Jakes is no different. Delve further into these pastors and ask God to show you. Not every good sounding pastor is going to be from God. A real pastor will have sermons that dig into your soul and tear it to shreds with the conviction it causes. That's because they speak Bible, not man. God's word is a sword. I'm glad you were helped at the time by Steven, but if you want meat, please consider seeking out a real man of God who teaches God's word honestly and like our King Yeshua, he doesn't hold back. Also, being a theologian doesn't mean you won't be deceived by feeling. The best deceivers will sound like they are speaking doctrine of God. They may even quote God's word letter for letter, but they deny the power thereof and if you listen, you hear it. Just please be careful my friend and watch out for the broad barbed road. Stay narrow and God bless.
Furtick isn't a preacher, he is a performer
It is all about God. I found it kinda of funny and sad when they kept on saying my church. But who I am I. I just want to have a deep relationship with the lord. God lives in me. I want to love like Jesus loves. I hope and pray he lives in these men. Jesus was awsum. No home, no wife, no belongings, no church. and he walked in the power and in trust of his father. Relationship. Why do we keep ignoring these writings in the bible. I always wonder that, but I have a good idea why we do. I want relationships. Lord I praise you I thank you for what you have done. Thank you lord. Love you lord. There should be never no debates, it is a waist of time. Time is short. It is not about us. It is about him.
Amen
There are debates because theology matters.
You are exactly right Furtick I believe is headed for a train wreck because it’s his way or the highway the way he carries himself is that of a bad boy gangster or better than you I have been of and on for the last year listening his egotistical
I think when he says “my church” he just means the congregation he is in charge of ministering to. He’s just differentiating between the church he is the head pastor of verses the church that Matt Chandler is the head pastor of. If they both were to specifically say “God’s church” or “the Church” it would be really confusing to understand their conversation as a listener. But I totally agree with everything you've said. Amen!
I can’t take Stephen seriously with that hair....someone wrote he looks like Ben Stiller and now I’m crying laughing!
He looks so different
Lol, right!!! he went straight boy band backup singer with that hair👨🎤
Got that Joseph prince stylist no doubt.
I once had hair ! And similar . Once 😂😂
That is old . This video . Anyone know what year ? Think this was something called Elephant in the room if I'm not mistaken ? ..
Impossible to know the background on this. Appears to be something taken out of context to make a point. A point of what, I wonder? All I see is one man put into a position to have to defend himself and he did so respectfully and in a godly way. Makes me wonder why was he put into that position. ??? Why would anyone try to make another man living for God defend his way of living for God. That creates division within the church and not unity. It looked like one man was taking criticism and standing up for himself and complimenting someone who appeared to be attacking him.
This is taking the focus off of God and putting onto his servants. Why? Why is that ok? The world has enough division. The last thing the church needs is Christians telling one another the right way to serve God. Love God, love people.
I watched this wondering, “What is the point here?” Why was this shared? To honor God? I just stumbled upon this and now I’m bothered from what I just heard. That said, I know there is a context that is missing. Why is that? And why is this so old lol?
It says as I type here,” Remember to keep comments respectful and follow our Community Guidelines.” Attacking another Christian who is serving how he is called to serve seems to go against “respect.”
Seemed to have an agenda and I wonder why. Hopefully, whatever has gone on people can put their focus back on God and be grateful for any and all who help bring good to this world. 🙏🏼
Just a passerby who left wondering what someone else said too, “What did I just watch?”
Agenda it did have back then, my friend. i remember this video way back when...i believe it came out 2010 or 2011, it was supposed to be an ongoing series (i believe) called the Elephant Room...probably named by some clever reformed dude...but i digress. It was taken down shortly after it "aired" bc it became really controversial in the evangelical world, AND bc it was clear that the reformed dudes put it all together to gang up on t.d. jakes and furtick. it was impossible to find for a while...guess it's resurfaced since then...kinda funny. anyways, hope that gives you some context
Hence the name "Elephant Room"...get a bunch of reformed guys ganging up on 2 "blasphemers" and "false prophets" so they can all discuss the....elephant...in...the....room....bc...those guys are probably going to hell....right? anyways i digress again
Jamie Paull I was searching for a comment like this and I’m happy to see it towards the top of the section. A lot of division going on here in the vid and comments. And for what purpose? I have no idea. But you’re right. Jesus made it very plain for us. Love God, love people. I’m not saying knowledge is a bad thing, but I feel like we sometimes let our knowledge about God guide us, rather than our relationship with God. There is plenty to do with such little time to do it. And as long as other believers are spending time doctrine checking and scheduling times to bring people on broadcasts so they can rebuke them in public...what God has commanded us to do will take a lot longer to get done.
In clarity & in Totality, not sure what they are "trying to clarify" but (regardless) True "Christians/Disciples"=Christ Followers> are ALL appointed by God to tell others (IF) "others" idealogy/teaching/preaching does Not allign to Biblical Doctrine > "others" wrongdoings !!!! (Why) is this so important you may be thinking (because) Biblcial Doctrine is Not what you "think" or what anyone "thinks" > Biblical Doctrine is an Supreme Ordinance in "Reproof" of the "bearing witness"(see 1st John 5:7 & 5:8 in coalition to John 1:14 to Galitians 2:20 to John 3:3) in/through Gods Diety of Ordinance/Requirements of Power "Made Manifested" unto the foundation of the world!!!
This is (why) > false teachers/pagans (NEED) to be "called out" in distorting Gods Word in representing a "false narrotive" to the masses, who have been granted a "pedestal" to false teach/preach in secular society.
Its one thing to be a "false witness" , but its another to be a "false fitness" while distorting Gods Word in process to be manipulative & deceitful in leading (people who do seek truth) astray!!! Not everyone who teaches has a "good intention" unto the true "will of God" .... Reproof IS Always in order & in clarification unto Biblical Doctrine. & heres my proof not because i say so, but unto Gods say so ! >>
2 John 10 King James Version (KJV)
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2 John 9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
The world has division (because) only few are "reproofed" in/through Biblical Doctrine, in what do i mean by this you may ask. The secular pagan churches have water downed the Gospel so much that Gods Spirit has left those churches because the church itself or in its appointed of who teaches/preaches at it does not Exhort Biblical Doctrine & thus people go to church as a "self ritual/feel good" thing Versus being seared by The Gospel Sword thereof unto the piercing of The Gospel in/through Biblical Doctrine of Ordinance unto Repentence, blood of Christ, confronting sin/s & dealing with sin/s, being "convicted of sin/s > by Holy Spirit, obtaining Gods Righteousness that IS holy spirit of God, & is new creature in this life in doing the will of God through Christ "made manifested" by the John 3:3 "conclusion" of being Born Again!
Not pointing at anyone or anything in particular , just clarifying as to "why" Biblical Doctrine is so important in coalition to your response in that not everything is fairy dust, unicorns, & happy meals.... When dealing with something as serious as any persons "Eternal Salvation" & (why) in Totally unto > Gods Supreme Ordinance/Requirement/Doctrine of Gods Sovereign Diety Power of Existence. & this IS why the world is fallen & theres a "broad path" to the place of the gnashing of the teeth!
Jamie Paull
I understand what you’re saying and I think you have the truest intentions of not wanting division in the church. However, every Christians must be rooted in the word. We must guard our thoughts and bring it captive under the feet of Jesus. You must test every beliefs to see if it’s worthy of the kingdom of God. This is why doctrine matters - it’s not about getting it right but by dying to ourselves and our cultural beliefs and carrying the cross after Jesus in obedience to the Father’s will.
I don't know wether to laugh or cry. Pathetic and shallow so called leadership.
Driscol , Perry, and Jmac all have devastated the congregations they were pastors of. I attended Harvest in Riverside for over 22 years. I've seen that church turn into a seeker sensitive church. They have been always building new buildings now new campuses. One year when the economy was crashing and I was struggling to make mortgage they started a fundraising program to buy more property on adjacent streets and one large plot on the east side of the existing school. They put up a "thermometer" sign to show their progress in raising $14M for a parking lot there. The construction was just about done when one week I noticed yellow caution taping off about a third of the completed lot. Then the next week all that area was demoed. I was astonished! Found out later there was a construction code snafu and the inspector yellow tagged it. That was over 8 years ago. It still is only half finished on what they told us was the plan. Instead they opened campuses in Corona, Orange county, Woodcrest, and maui. I left over three years ago.
Ok, I don't care much for this... competitive debating in the body of Christ. If we're real, please let's build each other up.
That is building each other up....
@@cxx1953 Seriously?
@Nathanael Inman, we don't need this to drag on. I'm not sure where you got the word "debate" because it's not in scripture. Yes, they discussed. These gentlemen are:
a) criticizing each other
b) doing it in front of everyone.
According to 1 Corinthians 6, if the objective is building each other up, the approach should be more discreet.
Now, lest I drop to the level of gossip and slander myself, I'm dropping this.
@@blazeovich
Acts 15:2,7 mentions debate.
When Paul opposed Peter in Galatians 2, a benefit of doing it publicly was that those around would also know the error. We're told to refute those with bad doctrine in Titus 1:9.
So long as the men are respectful and not purposefully slanderous or leaning on ad-hominem attacks, biblically-based debate can be wildly helpful for those listening to see truth.
@@reformedtraining Fair enough.
Nauseating. Like seriously. My heart is breaking for people who I once thought were wise and mature Christians who have jumped on this cult of personality bandwagon. This just furthers my disdain for the Americanized church in general.
TKfamily 96 honestly! I don't even go to church anymore. I hardly trust people when they say they are Christian nowadays which is kinda sad...but at least I trust God.
Very judgmental of you..
@@uniqoEnEsp if you are close to God and ask him what church to go to "HE WILL" guide you. Just not going to church period because of a bad experience is foolish.
Tim Cox I know, I haven't done enough of that. It's just hard because you meet people that seem to teach the truth but then you start to find out they also teach false things. I trust God will lead me to the right church once the times is right. He's always lead me away from the false ones and towards the truth.
@@uniqoEnEsp Its definitely draining! All the false preaching churches you and "I" have attended were apart of Gods plan to give us better discernment over false preachers! That's how you gotta look at it brother, God bless you and good luck with the plan that God has for you!
Why is everyone criticizing? I don’t know Matt chandler tbh but I frequently listen to Furtick. He’s constantly talking about the death and resurrection of Christ, and consistently pointing people to the cross, which is the role of every single Christian. His style might not be for you, and that’s okay. But please notice the irony in how Chandler sits there and mentions a sound bite and how things can get wildly taken out of context, and that’s exactly what’s happening in this 5 minute video. Debates can be good. Arguing to be right or dominate others is not good. And nowhere in this video do I see any hatred, just health, peace, and love while discussing points of views.
Also, please realize, these men are on a timer. They’re trying to speak as quickly to get their points across. I see a lot of comments putting Furtick down for saying “my church.” It’s clear he’s just trying to speak quickly. If you listen to his sermons, he ALWAYS gives the glory to God and talks about how he’s just a vessel.
We are one body. The hand will be comfortable with fingers but not toes. There’s going to be different styles of churches. But as long as it preaches the true gospel, preaching the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the forgiveness of sins, and the gifts God gives (grace, the Holy Spirit, eternal life)...then thats that.
There’s more I’d love to say, but I doubt anyone will have made it this far in the comments (: No matter what, we’re family in Christ.
AMEN!
He is consistently theologically incorrect. He builds on emotion and puts the individual before Christ. He lifts us selp and self-help instead of only Jesus. It is just Jesus. When asked about things he said that are completely wrong, he uses words like hyperbole or painting a picture... and disregards accuracy in teaching the WORD OF GOD. Mentioning Jesus and His resurrection is not all it takes to be a pastor or even an evangelist. You have to respect it and only teach the truth in the context of the entire book. One popular criticism is his sermon where he said Jesus broke the law for love. Jesus can not break the law and said specifically that He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it. When God makes a promise, He can not break it. Not because He is limited, but because of it is not His character. If Jesus could break the law then what promise of God can we stand on? None because if He broke the first covenant He made with Abraham, He can break the one He made with us. Furtick gives people sweetened condensed milk, not healthy milk for babies in Christ, not meat that mature Christians need, sweet milk that will keep some coming back time after time for their dessert. Depth in scripture isn't meant to be confusing or an excuse not to talk to our neighbors. It is realizing that we will never ever reach the bottom of who God is but being desperate for as much as we can get in these earthly bodies. The sheep in Furtic's church were starving to death and cried out for sustenance and he turned away from them. A good shepherd points to the savior and leads their sheep to good pasture.
th-cam.com/video/ocHm18wUAGU/w-d-xo.html
Amen brother!
+Meaghan Linhart --Criticizing? Jesus says to BEWARE of false teachers, which is what Chandler has fallen into since hooking up with the Gospel Coalition, and Furtick writes himself into the Bible in every "sermon" AND says that if one is born again in Christ, his church is no longer for you.. THAT says a lot.. Research the characters before calling us "all one body". We're WARNED in the Bible to MARK and AVOID false teachers, to NOT participate in their evil in 2 John 1:9-11
I remember the disciples doing this type of stuff in 2nd Opinions 3. Right on modern church leaders.
A "creative meeting", are you kidding me? What happened to simply preaching the Bible, verse by verse?!
2:47 is a problem. He said "cycling through MY church" bro it ain't your church, it's GOD'S church
It is their church if they are running it under the guise and name of Jesus only.
Ana A. It’s not
@@user-ck5hp1cy8o Don't know if you understood my comment. I'm basically saying any church that is run by man (God has left that church) even though that church may ' profess' to be the church of Christ, it isn't the church of Christ since they have rejected God and His Word, He no longer is there.
Ana A. I understood you. You’re just wrong.
I think when he says “my church” he just means the congregation he is in charge of ministering to. He’s just differentiating between the church he is the head pastor of verses the church that Matt Chandler is the head pastor of. If they both were to specifically say “God’s church” or “the Church” it would be really confusing to understand their conversation as a listener. But I totally agree with you! It is God’s church and it should be lead as such, with God in it and not with their own selfish ambition.
That's what Stephen does now.
Weird.
Steven
I don’t see a debate here. What I see is two parts of the Body of Christ doing what they was called to do. I believe Chandler speaks to the mind of the people who what more knowledge about God and Furtick speaks to the heart of the people who need to change. Neither one is more important than the other.
“ The human body has many parts, but the many parts make up one whole body. So it is with the body of Christ.”
1 Corinthians 12:12 NLT
Furtick preached thru the new testament in 30 days while John Macarthur spent, was it 42 years? Preaching through the new testament. There’s a contrast in depth for ya
Augustine. C hello. Just a few thoughts. He never said he “preached” through the NT in 30 days. No preacher (including MacArthur) is preaching every day for 30 days to their congregation. He said he led them through it, like in a daily bible reading. Be a better listener.
@@aaronwatson4832 It's better to NOT hear what this satanic freakshow Furtick says
Are we criticizing preachers for the TEMPO with which they preach through Scripture now? That's just sad. If you can't find it in your heart to bless him, at least leave him alone.
I wonder why people are so hostile on this page. It think it is obvious that both men Lord God and have a passion for reaching the lost. They just go about it differently and are passionate about how they do it! Their passion is evident in their intensity for their position. But haven't we seen this before? Remember Paul and Barnabos had a HUGE falling about about John Mark, so much so, they went their separate ways. Read Acts 15:35-41 and tell me if this isn't similar. Disagreements will happen in the church. Its a consequence of diversity. Both men have different approaches and both men win souls for Christ. We, as the ones reading and commenting, have to realize this and not escalate a disagreement in point into something that isn't glorifying to God.
Sounds like a bunch of emptiness
It is. Fruitless chatter
Love his response...”did you watch the whole sermon”?
Should it matter if he watched the whole sermon?
@@Tater1722 yes, because people tsoe snippets from a sermon and cite it out of context. I'm speaking in general, not just this particular situation.
@Forg1ven S1nner More likely than not, so are you. It just depends by which doctrine you judge by.
@Forg1ven S1nner According to Orthodox and Catholic Christians, all protestants are heretics. And Catholics and Orthodox believe each other to be schismatics. Some protestants probably believe the former two to be heretics as well. So everyone is a heretic to someone else. The word has lost its meaning to me.
@Forg1ven S1nner But you just called Steven Furtick a heretic...
Steven Furtick also has a celebration for reaching a million subscribers on Instagram. What is wrong with these pastors today praising themselves.
Pulpit drives the church? Really? How about The Holy Spirit lead the church
Completely missed the point. A church will only be as biblical as the preaching. Biblical preaching is led by the Holy Spirit. Unbiblical churches are led by wanna be rock stars like Furtick.
Holy Spirit drives the pulpit, the pulpit drives the church
Come on - you must be able to understand that language in the context of a church
Da'hell is this?? Evangelicals made a game show debating who's the better preacher?
God help them...
SCATESKIN comments here are hilarious!
Amen. It's was disturbing to watch
I burst into laughter at your comment! Yes!!!!!
@Trey Fontenetthe word "hell" is in the bible
@Trey Fontenet I thought you were saying the commenter was cursing.. the only word I can see in the comment that can be mistaken for a cuss word would be "hell". So I was just clearing that up. It wasn't really a big deal I was just clearing that up for some who may come across this comment.
Matt coming at Furtick with that amazing combo of grace and discipline. Can't think of a better role model!
Whole heartily agree Luke!!!
Luke Price Please watch...
“True vs False Christianity”
th-cam.com/video/JAGsb7cu6Co/w-d-xo.html
WRONG, his anti-Christ Statement was made earlier this year. If you think that this tool of satan has progressed in the image of Christ, it's apparent that you have not, declaring the reality that you are as damaged and lost as furtick.
@@Testifydesignfactory who's anti christ statement and what was said? direct us to a link!
+Luke Price --Perhaps BEFORE he got mixed up with the (Social Justice) Gospel Coalition............
Where's the debate?? A house divided can't stand, I was expecting to much. Shame on me.
Full video: th-cam.com/video/JOKceYR4lyE/w-d-xo.html
You're not going to get much depth on anything Scriptual from these guys.
Mordechai Jones lol true
I think I'm gonna stick with my Bible and prayer and ask God to show me His truth and not depend on any man and their version of the truth, even with their best intentions.
When Furtick makes the statement that 'if what you mean by Doctrine is teaching something so abstract that you don't even know how to go home and treat your wife...' is a Knee-jerk, misdirection answer. Though I don't call myself a Reformer I hold more to what they believe far more than Emergent Church, feel-good, watered-down gospel. Most good reformed churches preach on many deep and important things such as What is Salvation and what is it Not, the Holiness of God, living the Christian life by following & obeying Jesus, what does it mean to be Sanctified (to be set apart), dying to self, fleeing from sin, trusting in the Lord during the Peaks & the Valleys and so on. And they don't ignore how husbands should treat their wives either.
We just live in an age where Hyper-growth churches are all about the Numbers and little or no concern on The Whole Counsel of God, Making Disciples, emphasizing Holiness, putting on the Mind of Christ and so many Big Doctrines that cause Transformation. We are to be Renewing our Minds every week, not seeking man-invented angles on Solving the Problem of the day. Did God say to Job when he lost it all and was filled with sores 'here take this sap from a plant or tree and all your problems will go away instantly'? By no means, he wanted Job to trust him through the Valley and learn who he (Job) was and learn who the Lord God is first.
scot pederson bingo! Boom baby!
Furtick wants to dumb-down the gospel to reach a wide audience. But, he ends up selling short since people can digest the hard things if the preacher is willing to preach it.
There’s a difference between dumbing it down and wanting to give people the simple truth.
@@zachjones8996 I agree. I don't think people should have to digest AND apply sermons to their lives. Steven presents simple ideas with God at the center, and it is up to the individual listening to take the message to heart and apply it to their life.
@@zachjones8996 Furtick takes so much from the Bible out of context and apply s it wrong to people's lives
Tristan Bel do you have an example in mind?
@@zachjones8996 th-cam.com/video/bQ_m4JdguwQ/w-d-xo.html
Right so Chandler takes issue with Furtick’s false dichotomy, and Furtick takes issue with Chandler’s straw manning. Cool beans. 🤘🏼
There was no straw man. The critique of Furticks unbiblical church model are spot on
@@TheJpep2424 it was a textbook definition of straw man.
It took John MacArthur almost 50 years to preach through the NT and you did it in 30 days????????....
I literally know nothing about this youth pastor looking guy, but your comment is kind of unfair, he doesn't claim to have made a deep study to the level that MacArthur did, I mean, I took a semester of NT overview classes in college, is that bad cause it's not 30 years ?
@@LucasDZurita Nothing he preaches is deep in scripture.
Elijah th-cam.com/video/J2LBfIMfSVI/w-d-xo.html
@@chopperdave43 GOOD video.. You Tube Search John MacArthur Blood of Christ and MacArthur Mark of the Beast. May want to keep those handy too.. ALSO Check out Ray Comfort's new video about Hollywood - watch carefully and see what I mean.. especially Ray's hands.. That *flattened* me!
+Elijah Rose - You Tube Search John MacArthur Blood of Christ and MacArthur Mark of the Beast. He's a FALSE teacher!
To all the Furtick haters I see here in the comments: you have every right to your opinion (for whatever it’s worth). However, instead of criticizing him for preaching what you feel like is “incorrect,” why don’t you consider how many people have been brought to Christ because of him. No preacher is perfect, and no doctrine is perfect. That’s simply because any doctrine is filtered through the eyes of our humanity and personal experience with the Word of God and the Holy Spirit. The Bible doesn’t say judge judge judge-that’s God’s job. But, it does say to love (in fact, it repeats this instruction over and over and over again). So I’m not trying to be a hater of the haters here. I’m just hoping we can put it in perspective. Tons of people go to his church, tons don’t stay. They’re in and out. But, if they meet Christ, if God uses that moment to save a soul, then GOOD! In fact, it was at Elevation that I was saved more than 5 years ago. I’ve been an avid follower of Christ and student of the Word ever since. I no longer go to Elevation, but I do give them the credit they’re due. And if nothing else, God can use such an institution to reach the lost and transform lives. I say that’s a GREAT thing!
Not every one that says Lord, lord will be saved.
1 Corinthians 5:12-13 English Standard Version (ESV)
12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church[a] whom you are to judge? 13 God judges[b] those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”
John 7:24 ESV / 26 helpful votes
Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”
1 Corinthians 6:1-20 ESV / 8 helpful votes
When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers,
Hominem I don’t know exactly what you’re trying to imply with your scripture reference. I don’t feel like it’s fair to take it out of context. The verse and those surrounding it are simply saying don’t just talk the talk, you have to walk the walk. So, I don’t really see the relevance here since that has nothing to do with Furtick. It’s up to the individual to search the scriptures and live a life according to God’s will as laid out in the Word and from the Holy Spirit.
Kris Hanke
Matthew 7:1-5 King James Version (KJV)
“7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.”
--
Here’s my problem with both of these responses. They seek to undermine the true intention of my comment with scriptures taken out of context. Was it not possible to seek what I was truly trying to say? All I wanted to express was that people are doing a disservice to the church (as a whole, not Elevation) by talking bad about a man of God in a comments section on TH-cam when they themselves aren’t perfect either. None of us are perfect except within His perfection, it’s not something we can be on our own. And instead of seeing my point and trying to find common ground, all that was done here was listing of irrelevant scriptures, which just makes this whole thread look like a great example of a silly Christian fight. Not that we’re fighting. I hope we’re not! That’s not my intention. If there are any further responses, I won’t be responding. I’ve spoken up according to what the Holy Spirit unctioned, and that’s all that needs saying. Farewell 💙
--
1 Corinthians 6:1-20 just proves my point. Paul is essentially saying that they should do right by their brother, not sue them in court. The verses weren’t talking about social judgement like I was in my original comment. I was talking about judging in the sense of Matthew 7:1-5 (see above).
John 7:24
Here Jesus was talking about judging with wisdom because He healed a man on the sabbath. For goodness sake, He was defending Himself against those who were accusing Him of wrongdoing, and accusing Him of being demon possessed. Again, He was not talking about social judgement. We have to keep scripture in the context of its meaning.
1 Cor 5:12-13
Even this one is taken out of context. Here Paul is saying that believers should be careful not be corrupted by people who aren’t of the faith. “A little leaven leavens the whole lump.” He’s encouraging them to be sincere and truthful, and warning them against those that aren’t. He’s trying to protect them.
Euroflower Yeah I think will have to disagree. I think if you read the context of the very first verse that is talked about just at least ye be judged. You’ll see that it’s actually telling you how you should judge that you shouldn’t have That same sin or guilty of the same thing to remove it before you approach your brother don’t forget those last verses.. The problem is is that the worldview of judgment is that we look down upon them. Scriptural and righteous judgment is that we understand and that we go to them and explain to them that what you’re doing is wrong. There’s a very different approach and understanding of biblical judgment. There’s also different kinds of judgment one would be Salvatory the other might be disciplinary and punishment for something that you’ve done against worldly laws or the laws set forth by state and government. The point of the first verse is to restore your brother. In the same with a lot of the other passages the whole point is that we’re reaching out in love. But we also need to be cautious that we are guilty of the same thing. So to say the Christians are not to judge is completely anti-biblical because over and over again it is talked about in restoring others
So shallow, Gods word should be high and lifted up, not whatever this was. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
This is not okay to me. Both going back and forth about each other’s preaching, first off this should’ve been done privately not on the internet.
Where's the rest of this dialogue? I think it's good for the body to respectfully work through differences and dare I say, grievances in this way. They're not tearing each other down personally, but focusing on teaching, which is good. I would love to see what comes next and whether they respond gracefully to one another.
For everyone saying “There is no glorifying God here” . These a guys are basically broadcasting their coffee talks. This was from a series called The Elephant Room. Where they all debate. Iron sharpens iron. In way, it does glorify God and it gives you an interesting perspective on what they believe and how they present it. In my opinion, Driscoll is on.
Amen bro! Iron sharpens iron! I think, according to scripture, that this exactly what we need in the body of Christ. We all need to set put our “denominations” and bias’ aside and just come together to build on the Christ as our true foundation.
It’s unfortunate that Furtick so believes that any Biblical doctrine is so abstract that it cannot be applied. The knowledge of God is the most fundamental character of the Christian life. This is why Peter’s wish is that his readers grow in grace and in the knowledge of God (2 Pet. 3:18). In fact, John equates the knowledge of God with our ability to stop sinning (1 John 3:6). The knowledge of God is immanently applicable, and is the foundation of any righteousness that we have. The problem isn’t the preaching of abstract theology, it is the failure to show how it may sink to our hearts and consume our affections. Furtive preaches application upon application, but what good is this when it is divorced from the knowledge of God, the very foundation of any Biblical application? Christian living in the truest sense cannot be divorced from the knowledge of God in the way that he’s doing here.
You took it out of context then take Ezekiel 37 out of context
"the pulpit drives the church,"
Pretty much sums up this version of gathering to me, nothing more need be stated
Sad... So sad isn't it...
This is the New Culture in churches today.
Really Sad.
@@josephdesouza4128 Sad indeed ..many of these Pastors are out because they got themselves in trouble..McDonald, Mark Driscoll, then Matt Chandler is with the apostate Southern Baptist bunch, Steven Furtick adds himself to the Bible every time he preaches, it is SAD, and what's SADDER is that TOO MANY listen to the ones still "Pastoring" -- like Steven Furtick.. We WERE warned in Scripture though about the "falling away" of the church into apostasy, and here we are! Jesus is coming for His Church/Bride SOON! Watch.. our redemption draws ever so nigh! \o/
Mary Mclocke what do you mean the apostate southern baptist?
yep, make the crowd go nuts.
Luke Hanson Please don’t take this like I’m trying to be too sarcastic or hateful. This is my perspective over the years as to what I feel like God has shown me personally when it comes to modern day church culture. By no means am I saying all churches are like this either - so there’s that. I think they mean apostate by the fact that these pastors and churches care more about image, having a Facebook marketed ministry, and being hip cool and relevant in today’s world and trying to draw in as many numbers as possible for what seems to be for the sake of their own ego. Not to mention that a lot of them in this group are reformed Calvinist which is a gross error when it comes to interpreting God’s character and colors everything else they believe and how they think (thus fully disabling the importance of human free will in our daily walks) I don’t hate them by any means, but when these churches should be teaching on stuff that The Fuel Project covers here on TH-cam in the series called Know Your Enemy, they just keep preaching the basic 2+2 equals 4 theology and never press into more depth because they only know what their religion of men theological seminaries taught them. A lot of the big churches are popular culture obsessed, cappuccino latte, “getting my house remodeled so please pray for me that it goes well” type churches these days. I think this is what they meant by apostate southern Baptist circuit
Man. A room with Noble, Driscoll, and MacDonald....must be a fun party.
Bunch of heretics!
Demoss Negmorne
Exactly.
@@banditlegal7452 Don't throw out "heretic" like that. Heresy is always revolved around how Christ is taught. Is he God? if not...then it's heresy. Everything else is up for debate. I don't believe they are heretics. I do believe these 3 guys specifically are unqualified for Pastoral Ministry.
@@evansavage7955 there are many ways to qualify teachers as heretics! You can find them out by what they they teach or what they don't teach for example, charismatic preachers replace the gospel of Christ as on to receive to through repentance and Faith in Jesus, then walk in obedience and sanctification by the guidance of the Holy Spirit in the word, but the charismatic preachers Preachers deliver wealth and health gospel. They said God wants to be wealthy and healthy.
Demoss Negmorne No, I agree with the OP that definition of heresy is ahistorical. Everything you mentioned is important, but are 2nd or 3rd order matters of debate. The word heresy is reserved for matters of first importance (theology proper, Christology). Don’t know as much about Noble, but the other two didn’t preach anything heretical. They are bad men, disqualified, liars, whatever you want to say about that is probably true. However I’ve had the word heretic thrown at me for not being a dispensationalist, which of course is asinine. Doesn’t do our core and mutual doctrinal beliefs any good by throwing that word around so casually. You mentioned their actions. their actions are certainly hypocritical, but not heretical as it’s defined throughout church history
Furtyck has gone even further into heresy, as he announced recently that he denies the trinity and embraces modalism.
Not a fan of his but please provide a link that leads to where you're getting this information. Thanks
You can't make this huge claim without evidence, otherwise what you said has no meaning.
@@harrykellett2061 camlhyde.com/blog/2020/3/5/its-time-to-walk-away-from-steven-furtick. You can find his clip here... He is a protégé of TD Jakes a well known modalist.....he says Jesus is changing forms at minimum he is denying Hebrews 8. But given his history and other comments he is a modalist.
@@tannermoldenhauer5876 1st John 5:7 & 5:8 is crystal clear on the 3 bearing witnesses & unto the linkage to also John 1:14. As word became flesh & dwelt among us.
In conclusion someone should educate furtick on the "separation" when God forsake Christ on cross for our sin/s , as God can not come into contact with sin/s. I wonder what "form" answer Furtick would reply too if he was asked what "form" Jesus bore on cross when God "separated" from Christ. Good video on catching that as I pulled it up to see. They are "heretics" everywhere now days.
God bless.
@The Simplicity of Autism Amen. Follow the money & it will always lead to a heretic sellout.
When we build and center the local church around one church role (a single teacher/pastor), this will always give the body of believers less and not more. To borrow a term I've heard, this will always yield a stunted expression of the Body of Christ. This comment isn't directed at these gentlemen. I just feel sad at the current state of the modern church.
You have wisdom
Mark Witmer Couldn’t agree more. When chuck missler was asked a question in one of his Q&A’s about 10 years ago as to what the biggest challenge new pastors coming into the churches would face, his answer: EGO.
He nailed it
5:00 min mark Furtick: “we fasted for 11 days”
Jesus: ““When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.”
Matthew 6:16 NIV
Just one of the many examples of furticks nonsense on full display
I’m confused is Steven saying he makes his sermons confusing so that the people who don’t really listen end up leaving?
i wish these gentlemen meet today and assess each other's theology
Furtick is a heretic, Chandler is right to call him out, but I wouldn’t share a room with Driscoll.
Honestly asking this question as I have found a few of furticks sermons to be very helpful in getting back on the right path.
Can you elaborate more on how furtick is heretical?!
Kyle Wilson Jams sure, in a broad sense he distorts the Word of God in each of his sermons to be about us, instead in the true context of its written form. God is for His glory, not ours. He’s also said that God broke the law. He does not exegete the scripture, he distorts it.
Where is the the full interview with the other pastors?
If you can go through the NT in 30 days then you don’t know the NT....so much doctrine needs to be understood there
Are we criticizing preachers for the TEMPO with which they preach through Scripture now? That's just sad. If you can't find it in your heart to bless him, at least leave him alone.
Steven furtick is legit! I’m glad God uses him and brings people to Christ! That’s all that matters!! Cmon folks! Ok, it’s nice to have an understanding of the Bible but cmon! People need to get of their high horse with all their doctrinal knowledge and their exegetical baggage! All it creates is a Mr/Mrs know it all! Let me tell you! That doesn’t build people up! Jeez! Even Christ said you read the scriptures and yet you fail to see that it’s all about him!Pointing people to Christ and letting God do the work is what helps people experience the Holy Spirit to build kingdom people for Gods Glory!!
Whats a shame is half the pastors in this video have been removed or fired by their church
This seems to be a pretty old clip, but Furtick is still saying all the same things without tying in much scripture or doctrine. His church blends a lot of "feel good" messages and about self-discovery. Where is the Gospel in that?
Steve is the best ever and is the first pastor I ever kept watching. everyday I watch. 💯💯
A lot of pride on both sides. Why is this event even happening?
I for one thought it was really good. I have always thought down on Furtick and it was good to hear his side of things. It seemed like they were addressing their issues to make peace. (Beatitudes say they will be called children of God right?) It seems to be following scripture because we are supposed to address people we have a problem with and since these are public issues they need to be dealt with publicly. (According to scripture)
Must seem very weird to the outside world looking in on the church.
Lee Higginbotham i see a clown 😎
Because Jesus wants us to see these people for what they really are. Wolves and goats. Stay grounded in the word brother!
Chazz Ascoli spot on!!
Man that’s just a weird post. The clip is too short to create a substantial point. It’s just looks like two preachers going at each other.
Why did it go mute at the end ?
Steve Furtick would make a great sales man, lobbying agent or any kind of negotiator or diplomat, but definitely not a good Biblical preacher
Judge not, lest ye be judged.
@@azzo3050
...Twist not Scripture, lest ye be like Satan...
Read that text in context before quoting it, i.e the whole chapter Matthew 7 and you'll clearly see that it actually talks about correct judgment and not condemnation of judging which is what you seem to believe
BTW By quoting it you just judged me incorrectly which is exactly what that text talks against
Dude when was this debate, when I clicked on this I thought it was some other furtick I didn't think it was THE STEVEN FURTICK of elevation church, and Steven looks a lot different from what he looks like now, how old was he in this video and what year was this video
I want to say this debate, called the Elephant Room, was in 2011
@@nathancoppinger6484 yeah as soon as i put this comment, I saw the actual debate in the next recommendation for after the video, and watch that, was pretty cool
This was YEARS ago... I think Furtick has grown alot over the years, there’s still some things that I don’t agree with all the time, but I’ve seen growth.
+Dani Jackson - Where? He writes himself in to EVERY sermon and his church worships HIM.. Pay attention more, you'll catch it.
I don't like the spirit of this at all
This whole forum is the problem with The American Church.
Bruce Jolly amen. I’m both extremely repulsed and saddened by this.
I’m curious, by forum do you mean this debate?
there is a lot wrong with the american church, i don't think holding a forum to discuss issues with one another is one of them.
Why does Chris angel here keep flicking his eyes towards the camera. I’m honestly having a hard time pinning down what dudebro is trying to argue.
This interaction is so disappointing. I don't see how this models how to lovingly bring correction to a BROTHER. Rather it appears to polarize people as enemies in the pastor-celebrity culture.
I listened to a few furtick sermons on my drive to work and my first thought was, seems more like a motivational speaker/life coach vs pastor. Is that accurate or no?
Yes plus he's mixing with known False Teachers like TD Jakes and Joel Osteen.
Inaccurate
Horrible, very sad my heart hurts for them. The wheat among the tares.
Didn’t see any wheat here... ALL tares...
Furick is so false his facing backwards.