I like these kind of reviews when they are not about silly comparisons. It's very informative to know how these controllers work. Sitting here having coffee and cake, perfect. 😊👍
@@MrSnooze I covet a Clipper. I have one modern controller, a Chinese made controller sold by Auscision. It's solid state and works very smoothly. The other one is a cheap Powermaster Junior that was left behind by a former flatmate in the 1980's. It's just for testing. I like the idea of half wave for slow running and I am sure I will get something better.
Good morning it was a great bonus to find this second video this morning. It’s held me up tremendously I should’ve been out gardening by now the Sun is out and it’s a bank holiday weekend. I’ve had terrific fun this morning thank you for taking the time to put this video together. Oscar
Hello Oscar, sorry to have disrupted your gardening activities but I think the soil still needs to warm up a bit. I'm pleased you liked seeing the controllers on the layout. I'm really looking forward to getting the RP-13's on the mainlines now. Best regards to you
I've never thought about controllers much before and this has certainly got me interested - thank you for doing it. I guess some of the older units would have been dealing with non-nickel track at the time - I wonder if that makes any difference. However, track of the period would have been newer and perhaps more conductive than it is now decades later. Lots of variables to consider and it all adds to the interest and fun. Thank you again.
Hello Peter, you are right to think about the track materials. On Hornby Dublo 3 rail I prefer the brass type track. To me it seems to work well. That could all be about conductivity. As you say it does make it all interesting to experiment about with. Take care, all the best to you
My triang contollers are the old black bakelite ones with the separate large grey transformer. I wish I could add a photo to this comment. Then, years later, I read an article in "Electronics Australia" using a thyristor control. They claimed it would run at 4mph scale and couple to a weighted 10 car train without stalling. The idea intrigued me but I wanted more. So I added a capacitor, a diode and a couple of different resistors to produce simulated inertia both under acceleration and braking. My ultimate plan was to have some automated sections and some manual ones. The controller added a lot of skill to driving. Most particularly to shunting. If you gave it a fist full of power to get it going you couldn't stop it in time. I was forced to add an unrealistic panic button to stop it from crashing through buffers and off the end of the track. But its low speed performance was equally amazing. Imagine it going along at a scale 5mph and you put your finger in front to stop the engine. Even with magnadhesion on clean track the wheels would continue to spin at low speed without stalling. The power for it was a 12 V battery charger. Giving 18V peak. Then using the thyristor in an emitter follower circuit so that it had automatic feedback from the reverse emf generated by the motor during the OFF part of the cycle. It added a whole new layer of skill. Particularly when we used a sped up clock to attempt to run trains to a "timetable" so that you had to be able to accelerate to a reasonable speed but ALSO needed to judge the braking distance finely or you simply overshot the platform and had to set back. Completely trashing the timetable and getting a black mark on your driver's record. The fun of youth.
Hello, thanks for looking at the video. It sounds like you have some nice old units there. I don't think I've seen those early Bakelite ones. Someone told me about an Australian P5 with transistor construction. We never saw them in the UK. The circuit you constructed with inertia etc sounds fascinating and I bet it was fun timing loco movements. I hope you still have it. I'm wondering if the operations with the hastened clock were at a club. It must have been great to compete with friends. Do you have a circuit diagram for the unit, if so I would really like to see it. Take care, all the best to you
I was watching another channel, he was doing slow running and used the term" cogging ". It was to do with poles on the motor. I haven't seen your diesel shunter behaving like that. I take my hat off to you for dreaming up the test 😁
Hello Tim, thanks for watching. Too much cogging can be a problem you get with the newer Neo Magnets. In my opinion they are too strong and impair performance, especially at slow speed. Nothing beats a proper remag of the original magnet in my experience. Best regards to you
About 30 years ago I gave a friends daughter an RP13 controller for her HST Hornby train set. I think at the time the complaint was it did not go fast enough!
Hello Andrew, ah, the search for ultimate speed, something I remember from childhood too. There is no doubt that the RP-13 is a great controller, she was lucky to get that from you. All the best to you
I am pleased the Marshall 3 did reasonable as had one with my first trainset at the age of 5! Think they are all variable resistance controllers what would be really interesting is if you had a variable transformer controller such as the H&M Powermaster or Safety Minor.
Hello Andrew, That Marshall 3 is a very well built and capable controller. I may investigate the actual controller mechanism at some point. I agree about trying the other types, maybe I'll come across one of those models someday. All the best to you
Great video, some interesting older controllers, I've also got a H&M Duette that runs my 2 rail layout, not sure what the settings mean though on the centre switch's Thanks again J
Hi. Nice comparison of older controllers. I have the P5A controller. You used this first and noted that the engine sped up as it went along. All my engines are 1950's engines. I've noted that they all speed up as they warm up from cold. I tend to run mine quickly to start with to warm up the motors... Then set them to a constant speed. You may find that this works with the P5 controller. Worth trying. Mon, from Brisbane
Hello Mon, thanks for the information. I think you are right about giving them a warm up first. I really like the P5. As you're in Australia have you ever come across the transistorised P5 that was only available in your country? I've heard about them and I bet they would work really well. All the best to you
That was amazing Jonathan. I must run a similar test with all of my controllers I do have a P5 and an RP 14. I have had great results from both. I also have a H&M Electran? which has a 110volt input but I haven't tried that and I have a Meccano A2 model also a 110 volt input which I have not tried. Although both the controllers and locos were marketed to a generation that loved speed this proves that these trains and controllers were good for the scale modeler too. Thank you for this great video demonstration. Regards, David.
Hello David, I'm pleased you enjoyed this controller testing. I shall have to look up about the Electran as I have not heard of that one. I assume you are indeed on a lower mains voltage over there? Sounds like your A2 is a correct export model. Best regards to you
Great to see those old controllers in use probably 60yrs old or older, my four rp14 run my layout quite well, but to see a servicing of your rp13 would be fantastic, all the best
Hello Bob, I don't have one of the RP-14's but I think the variable controller is the same as the RP-13. I'm looking forward to seeing inside this controller too. All the best to you.
@@MrSnooze yes inside controller is quite amazing all I've done is clean printed circuit board with the cut and moved slightly centre contacts as they had worn a circular Groove right through the silver contact strip all the best to you
Hi Mr Snooze. Great comparison test. What a pity you didn't include the Gaugemaster. It would have been very interesting to compare a modern day controller to the older variety. Paul. 👍❤
Had to be the H&M Clipper! I had a Duette as my first controller as a kid and I still have it - though one "channel" conked out a long time ago. I'd love to get it repaired but have no idea how to go about it. I replaced it first with a Gaugemaster which died after about 10 years, then I bought a Hornby HM2000. It's still mint in its box. I've only used it about twice as it's so plastic and generally horrid. I then found a secondhand Clipper and a Duette on Ebay (both were pretty much unused) and I don't think I'll ever use anything else again. They are brilliant controllers. I also have a couple of H&M Walkabouts which with their 3 levels of inertia and "brake simulator" are great fun. Worth checking out if you see one for sale.
Hello Robin. Good to hear you are you are sticking with your Clippers. Getting one of those excellent walkabouts is on my list but I am yet to see one available. All the best to you
Interesting experiment, great to see the old tech hold its own. Though a word of caution ⚠️ to anyone thinking of getting one, the mains flex on those old controllers will probably need replacing as they dry up and crumble with age.
Hello Rob, Great words of advice there, older power leads can become a hazard with cracked or missing insulation. Get an electrician to check always. Thanks for watching, best regards to you.
Hello Pauline, I have opened it up but not featured it. Amazingly simple, a transformer and a printed circuit board with a wiper across the track. Flat diodes riveted to the circuit board so when wiper on control knob passes a certain point it is on half wave. Lots of exposed live mains inside so will probably not show in video but an absolutely lovely simple item that works superbly. Best regards to you
Hi, you even have the same calculator as me lol, great video. I think it speaks a lot of the quality of your 350 shunter. I am very surprised the GM can't produce comparable slow speed. The output wave form is 100Hz DC which should be the same as all the others on full wave. Also, because it is not a resistance controller the current will be even across all speeds. Half wave as I am sure you know would cause damage to more modern designs, it simply cuts out half the diodes leaving 50Hz through to the track. Indeed older motors need a bit of noise to get over the 'stickation' on starting, but even they will run hot after a time. Would be most interested in the insides of the RP13, sounds like it starts off with half wave then moves to full wave. I love the look of the Marshall controller, the notches might be set resistances??? Great video right up my street
Hello Mike, Thanks for watching. Funny about those calculators, I have a couple and they just go on and on and no batteries to worry about. I was surprised about the Gaugemaster. I think for modern low current consumption can type motors the solid state circuitry is perfect but when it comes down to more vintage items old fashioned wire resistances etc seem to work well as do the older types of rectifiers. I have read about some motors heating with Half Wave but the X04 seems to cope. Actually after considerable slow running I used my infra red thermometer and could detect no discernible difference in operating temperature. I was wondering if the Marshall 3 had stepped resistances too so I think Ill have to peak inside. I'll be looking inside the RP-13 too so I'll let you know what I find. Maybe even do a video. Thanks for the positive comments about this video, all the best to you
@@MrSnooze The thing with half wave is that to get the same torque you need to draw twice the current for half the time in each cycle. Now as the heat produced goes according to i^2 then it is producing 4 times the heat for half the time ie an average of double the amount of heating. Which may or may not be significant. Depending on the amount of loading given to the motor.
Hello Bertie, thanks for watching. I do have a three rail test track operating at the moment, is there anything in particular that you would like to see? I must say that I don't have all the three rail locos but I do have a have a fair variety. Unfortunately no AL1 or Co-Bo in three rail. Best regards to you
I don't have a 5a but I think they are just a slightly developed P5. The really interesting one is a 5T, only in Australia and transistorised. These are great for basic running of vintage items so if it's not to expensive would be a nice item. it would need to be checked by a qualified electrician for damage as mains electricity and a metal case could be an issue if someone has been at it or its damaged. Take care, all the best to you
The thing is that the Triang R.152 is model of an LMS/BR Armstrong Whitworth inside framed jackshaft 350 HP Diesel Electric shunter, NOT and English Electric class 08. Though the body shell is 100% accurate for the AW shunter, th wheel spacing plus lack of jackshaft drive is not. This is what the real life R.152 looks like: c2.staticflickr.com/4/3950/33696252546_8861192bf8_b.jpg www.derbysulzers.com/aw883cabendbw.jpg
Hello Andy, thanks for watching. That is interesting information. I think I shall get down my Pat Hammond Story Of Rovex books and read up on this. It will be interesting to see what's written. I enjoyed seeing those pictures. The Jackshaft drive looks great. Best regards to you
I like these kind of reviews when they are not about silly comparisons. It's very informative to know how these controllers work. Sitting here having coffee and cake, perfect. 😊👍
Hello Pauline, It's good to hear you found these tests interesting. What sort of controller do you use? Best regards to you
@@MrSnooze I covet a Clipper. I have one modern controller, a Chinese made controller sold by Auscision. It's solid state and works very smoothly. The other one is a cheap Powermaster Junior that was left behind by a former flatmate in the 1980's. It's just for testing. I like the idea of half wave for slow running and I am sure I will get something better.
@@PaulinesPastimes Sounds like your Auscision is a capable item. Maybe you will see a Clipper available at some point. All the best to you
Brilliant, a remarkable show of wonderful technology. Thank you!
Hello Drew, Thanks for watching, It is fun to see how older items compare to new. Maybe new doesn't always mean better. All the best too you
Good morning it was a great bonus to find this second video this morning.
It’s held me up tremendously I should’ve been out gardening by now the Sun is out and it’s a bank holiday weekend. I’ve had terrific fun this morning thank you for taking the time to put this video together.
Oscar
Hello Oscar, sorry to have disrupted your gardening activities but I think the soil still needs to warm up a bit. I'm pleased you liked seeing the controllers on the layout. I'm really looking forward to getting the RP-13's on the mainlines now. Best regards to you
I've never thought about controllers much before and this has certainly got me interested - thank you for doing it. I guess some of the older units would have been dealing with non-nickel track at the time - I wonder if that makes any difference. However, track of the period would have been newer and perhaps more conductive than it is now decades later. Lots of variables to consider and it all adds to the interest and fun. Thank you again.
Hello Peter, you are right to think about the track materials. On Hornby Dublo 3 rail I prefer the brass type track. To me it seems to work well. That could all be about conductivity. As you say it does make it all interesting to experiment about with. Take care, all the best to you
Good job, great to see the old tech, and their impressive performance. I have an old H&M Duette that I like using.
Great to hear you still use your Duette, they are such a good item. Thanks for watching, all the best to you
My triang contollers are the old black bakelite ones with the separate large grey transformer. I wish I could add a photo to this comment.
Then, years later, I read an article in "Electronics Australia" using a thyristor control. They claimed it would run at 4mph scale and couple to a weighted 10 car train without stalling.
The idea intrigued me but I wanted more. So I added a capacitor, a diode and a couple of different resistors to produce simulated inertia both under acceleration and braking.
My ultimate plan was to have some automated sections and some manual ones. The controller added a lot of skill to driving. Most particularly to shunting. If you gave it a fist full of power to get it going you couldn't stop it in time. I was forced to add an unrealistic panic button to stop it from crashing through buffers and off the end of the track.
But its low speed performance was equally amazing. Imagine it going along at a scale 5mph and you put your finger in front to stop the engine. Even with magnadhesion on clean track the wheels would continue to spin at low speed without stalling.
The power for it was a 12 V battery charger. Giving 18V peak. Then using the thyristor in an emitter follower circuit so that it had automatic feedback from the reverse emf generated by the motor during the OFF part of the cycle.
It added a whole new layer of skill. Particularly when we used a sped up clock to attempt to run trains to a "timetable" so that you had to be able to accelerate to a reasonable speed but ALSO needed to judge the braking distance finely or you simply overshot the platform and had to set back. Completely trashing the timetable and getting a black mark on your driver's record.
The fun of youth.
Hello, thanks for looking at the video. It sounds like you have some nice old units there. I don't think I've seen those early Bakelite ones. Someone told me about an Australian P5 with transistor construction. We never saw them in the UK.
The circuit you constructed with inertia etc sounds fascinating and I bet it was fun timing loco movements. I hope you still have it.
I'm wondering if the operations with the hastened clock were at a club. It must have been great to compete with friends. Do you have a circuit diagram for the unit, if so I would really like to see it. Take care, all the best to you
I was watching another channel, he was doing slow running and used the term" cogging ". It was to do with poles on the motor. I haven't seen your diesel shunter behaving like that. I take my hat off to you for dreaming up the test 😁
Hello Tim, thanks for watching. Too much cogging can be a problem you get with the newer Neo Magnets. In my opinion they are too strong and impair performance, especially at slow speed. Nothing beats a proper remag of the original magnet in my experience. Best regards to you
@@MrSnooze I agree 👍
About 30 years ago I gave a friends daughter an RP13 controller for her HST Hornby train set. I think at the time the complaint was it did not go fast enough!
Hello Andrew, ah, the search for ultimate speed, something I remember from childhood too. There is no doubt that the RP-13 is a great controller, she was lucky to get that from you. All the best to you
I am pleased the Marshall 3 did reasonable as had one with my first trainset at the age of 5! Think they are all variable resistance controllers what would be really interesting is if you had a variable transformer controller such as the H&M Powermaster or Safety Minor.
Hello Andrew, That Marshall 3 is a very well built and capable controller. I may investigate the actual controller mechanism at some point. I agree about trying the other types, maybe I'll come across one of those models someday. All the best to you
Great video, some interesting older controllers, I've also got a H&M Duette that runs my 2 rail layout, not sure what the settings mean though on the centre switch's Thanks again J
Hello, those H & M Duette's are excellent. Thanks for looking, best regards to you
Great review and test of some great old controllers,I'm going to look on eBay for an HM clipper.
Hello Peter, I hope you get a good Clipper, once you get used to them they are a fantastic DC controller. All the best to you
Hi. Nice comparison of older controllers.
I have the P5A controller.
You used this first and noted that the engine sped up as it went along.
All my engines are 1950's engines.
I've noted that they all speed up as they warm up from cold.
I tend to run mine quickly to start with to warm up the motors...
Then set them to a constant speed.
You may find that this works with the P5 controller.
Worth trying.
Mon, from Brisbane
Hello Mon, thanks for the information. I think you are right about giving them a warm up first. I really like the P5. As you're in Australia have you ever come across the transistorised P5 that was only available in your country? I've heard about them and I bet they would work really well. All the best to you
@@MrSnooze my P5A is built here in Aus, but I have no idea of it is transistorised.
That was amazing Jonathan. I must run a similar test with all of my controllers I do have a P5 and an RP 14. I have had great results from both. I also have a H&M Electran? which has a 110volt input but I haven't tried that and I have a Meccano A2 model also a 110 volt input which I have not tried. Although both the controllers and locos were marketed to a generation that loved speed this proves that these trains and controllers were good for the scale modeler too. Thank you for this great video demonstration.
Regards, David.
Hello David, I'm pleased you enjoyed this controller testing. I shall have to look up about the Electran as I have not heard of that one. I assume you are indeed on a lower mains voltage over there? Sounds like your A2 is a correct export model. Best regards to you
Great to see those old controllers in use probably 60yrs old or older, my four rp14 run my layout quite well, but to see a servicing of your rp13 would be fantastic, all the best
Hello Bob, I don't have one of the RP-14's but I think the variable controller is the same as the RP-13. I'm looking forward to seeing inside this controller too. All the best to you.
@@MrSnooze yes inside controller is quite amazing all I've done is clean printed circuit board with the cut and moved slightly centre contacts as they had worn a circular Groove right through the silver contact strip all the best to you
@@shedhead00 thanks Bob, that's useful info I'll bear in mind when I work on mine.
Hi Mr Snooze.
Great comparison test. What a pity you didn't include the Gaugemaster. It would have been very interesting to compare a modern day controller to the older variety.
Paul. 👍❤
Thanks for looking, maybe I'll do another comparison and include the newer controller in the future. All the best to you
Had to be the H&M Clipper!
I had a Duette as my first controller as a kid and I still have it - though one "channel" conked out a long time ago. I'd love to get it repaired but have no idea how to go about it. I replaced it first with a Gaugemaster which died after about 10 years, then I bought a Hornby HM2000. It's still mint in its box. I've only used it about twice as it's so plastic and generally horrid. I then found a secondhand Clipper and a Duette on Ebay (both were pretty much unused) and I don't think I'll ever use anything else again. They are brilliant controllers. I also have a couple of H&M Walkabouts which with their 3 levels of inertia and "brake simulator" are great fun. Worth checking out if you see one for sale.
Hello Robin. Good to hear you are you are sticking with your Clippers. Getting one of those excellent walkabouts is on my list but I am yet to see one available. All the best to you
Very interesting results Mate. I was toying with upgrading to a modern controller, I shall stick to my Clippers.
Hello Steven, I think you would find it hard to beat your clippers. Thanks for watching. All the best to you
Interesting experiment, great to see the old tech hold its own. Though a word of caution ⚠️ to anyone thinking of getting one, the mains flex on those old controllers will probably need replacing as they dry up and crumble with age.
Hello Rob, Great words of advice there, older power leads can become a hazard with cracked or missing insulation. Get an electrician to check always. Thanks for watching, best regards to you.
Watching this again. Did you ever investigate the RP13 and reveal it's mysteries?
Hello Pauline, I have opened it up but not featured it. Amazingly simple, a transformer and a printed circuit board with a wiper across the track. Flat diodes riveted to the circuit board so when wiper on control knob passes a certain point it is on half wave. Lots of exposed live mains inside so will probably not show in video but an absolutely lovely simple item that works superbly. Best regards to you
@@MrSnooze Thank you. I have never seen one and was curious. Simple and robust design, no wonder it still works well. :-)
Hi, you even have the same calculator as me lol, great video. I think it speaks a lot of the quality of your 350 shunter. I am very surprised the GM can't produce comparable slow speed. The output wave form is 100Hz DC which should be the same as all the others on full wave. Also, because it is not a resistance controller the current will be even across all speeds. Half wave as I am sure you know would cause damage to more modern designs, it simply cuts out half the diodes leaving 50Hz through to the track. Indeed older motors need a bit of noise to get over the 'stickation' on starting, but even they will run hot after a time. Would be most interested in the insides of the RP13, sounds like it starts off with half wave then moves to full wave. I love the look of the Marshall controller, the notches might be set resistances??? Great video right up my street
Hello Mike, Thanks for watching. Funny about those calculators, I have a couple and they just go on and on and no batteries to worry about. I was surprised about the Gaugemaster. I think for modern low current consumption can type motors the solid state circuitry is perfect but when it comes down to more vintage items old fashioned wire resistances etc seem to work well as do the older types of rectifiers. I have read about some motors heating with Half Wave but the X04 seems to cope. Actually after considerable slow running I used my infra red thermometer and could detect no discernible difference in operating temperature. I was wondering if the Marshall 3 had stepped resistances too so I think Ill have to peak inside. I'll be looking inside the RP-13 too so I'll let you know what I find. Maybe even do a video. Thanks for the positive comments about this video, all the best to you
@@MrSnooze Would love to see inside them both, take care, Mike
@@MrSnooze The thing with half wave is that to get the same torque you need to draw twice the current for half the time in each cycle. Now as the heat produced goes according to i^2 then it is producing 4 times the heat for half the time ie an average of double the amount of heating. Which may or may not be significant. Depending on the amount of loading given to the motor.
I had a jouef transo normo controller as a kid in the 70s.no idea where it came from.
Hello, I believe Jouef was a French maker. quite a lot of their products were sold in various countries. Thanks for watching, All the best to you
Well done now get the Hornby 3 rail out and repeat for us 3 rail fans !
Hello Bertie, thanks for watching. I do have a three rail test track operating at the moment, is there anything in particular that you would like to see? I must say that I don't have all the three rail locos but I do have a have a fair variety. Unfortunately no AL1 or Co-Bo in three rail. Best regards to you
@@MrSnooze Any of the 3 rail engines would be great.0.6.2 Tank loco , 2.6.4 Tank loco, 4.6.2 Loco for example thanks.
@@bertiewooster3326 I'll see what I can do 3 Rail wise over the next couple of weeks. all the best to you
Is the Tri-ang P5.5 a improved P5 or a down grade as I'm thinking about getting a Tri-ang P5.5 controller on Monday?
I don't have a 5a but I think they are just a slightly developed P5. The really interesting one is a 5T, only in Australia and transistorised. These are great for basic running of vintage items so if it's not to expensive would be a nice item. it would need to be checked by a qualified electrician for damage as mains electricity and a metal case could be an issue if someone has been at it or its damaged. Take care, all the best to you
The thing is that the Triang R.152 is model of an LMS/BR Armstrong Whitworth inside framed jackshaft 350 HP Diesel Electric shunter, NOT and English Electric class 08.
Though the body shell is 100% accurate for the AW shunter, th wheel spacing plus lack of jackshaft drive is not.
This is what the real life R.152 looks like:
c2.staticflickr.com/4/3950/33696252546_8861192bf8_b.jpg
www.derbysulzers.com/aw883cabendbw.jpg
Hello Andy, thanks for watching. That is interesting information. I think I shall get down my Pat Hammond Story Of Rovex books and read up on this. It will be interesting to see what's written. I enjoyed seeing those pictures. The Jackshaft drive looks great. Best regards to you