"Copenhagenize" and Electric Bicycles place in Urbanism
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ค. 2024
- I just Read "Copenhagenize: The Definitive Guide To Global Bicycle Urbanism." I wanted to share my thoughts on the book and talk more about a part of the book where I disagree with the Author, Mikael Coleville-Anderson, on his criticisms of Ebikes.
Physical activity of electric bicycle users compared to conventional bicycle users and non-cyclists
www.sciencedirect.com/science...
E-Bikes are a God send in San Francisco where we have many steep hills. Now that I'm older E-Bikes have given cycling back to me.
That’s great! San Francisco is a really cool city. My parents are both getting older but they still go out riding a lot thanks to their e-bikes.
As a spoiled daily biking Dutchman I'm happy for you.
And you are right: for the elderly living in hilly areas the e-bikes is a God sent.😊
But here in (very flat) Holland it also is: My mother of 82 is somewhat overweight and cannot walk long distances anymore.
But she still is able to bike which keeps her healthy, mentally fit, socially active, and independent of other people having to drive her. 😊
I have to add that separate bike lanes make all the difference, especially for kids and elderly people.
Speed pedelecs and motorized transport have to use the road.
e-bikes are limited to 25km/h and therefore allowed on the bike lanes with the normal bikes that go 15-20 km/h.
But if you didn't have an e-bike, you'd have thighs the size of trees and a heart that could double as a municipal water pumping station.
Absolutely right. E-bikes have been successful in getting me back into cycling when I would not have done so otherwise. That in itself is what makes it worthwhile.
I love my eBike. I drive back and forth to work with it, 8 miles each way. To say you're lazy using an ebike, is like saying you're lazy for driving a car.
Yeah, I'd say someone is lazy for driving a car rather than using a bike if work is less than 8 miles away.
@@buckettraveler8398Eh it depends, even in 5 miles you can get properly sweaty on the bike
There are many who ride an ebike because they are not strong enough to ride a regular bike. We’ve got a massive number of aging baby boomers ( like myself) needing the electric assist because they love riding. Anything that gets people out of their cars is good in my book! And studies have proven that people riding E-bikes are getting a very good cardiovascular workout, so they are not just being lazy! They have to pedal! And for me the enjoyment factor has gone way up since I can get around all over town (and carrying a load of groceries) without the aching thighs that I used to get all the time when riding my old (regular) bike.
Good points. I have found that riding bikes with my parents in their older years to be way more fun because it doesn’t matter if there is a difference in fitness level when they are able to just increase the pedal assist
@@mattkenney3359 exactly!! I had a thyroid problem for many years and it weakened my muscles, especially my thigh muscles, so the ebike was a Godsend. It was blissful being able to ride down the long hill all the way to the farmers market on a Saturday morning, pack my bike full of fruit and veg, and maybe even throw in another errand or two AND STILL be able to get all the way back up the hill to home without the pain and exhaustion! Then the thyroid problem got fixed, but now I’m in my 60’s so, again, it’s a Godsend to have the assist!!
I'm a millennial with an e-bike! A regular bike commute to work would take me 45-60 minutes each direction, with certain hills where the route is so steep I have to get off my bike and walk. As a result, I was choosing to bike less and less. With an e-bike, I can get to work in 30 minutes without breaking a sweat. For me, it makes biking to work an actual option, and I save time by not having to worry about changing after my ride. (For context, driving that same route in rush traffic takes 25 minutes, and transit takes 35, so an e-bike becomes a logical choice that gets me moving).
@@raquels. perfect!
Pedal assist helps me build strength at 70 years old . My ebike can go anywhere any pedal bike can . The class can be adjusted or turned off . I welcome the local police and ranger to question if I need to remove the battery for non electric bike path .
A few points about e-bikes: My e-bike makes my 28-mile round trip work commute viable. I use a higher pedal assist going in to work so I'm not sweaty, then a low pedal assist going home for more exercise. I add miles to stay on the bike paths going home, so my commute consists of 11 miles going in to work and 17 miles going home. When I do ride to work, I split the rides between my Radwagon and my 1998 Gary Fisher, the only bikes I own which can carry panniers. A coworker rides his bike to work every day, about 7 miles each way. The e-bike allows he and his wife to only own one car-not a bad thing. If more people rode e-bikes and e-cargo bikes, I think we'll get more pressure on local municipalities to construct better and isolated bike infrastructure.
I’m 68 and have owned a class 3 ebike for years now. One day recently a jerk driving a van harassed me for riding in the street. WTF? My campus town has had bicycle paths for 50 years so this guy must have learned the rules if the road in a nearby small town. He refused to get out of his van to discuss it with me though I confronted him at the next two red lights. Don’t bully people like me. This road is mine too. I paid for it.
I agree, even it propably make no sense to argue with such selfish people. In conclusion - the more people go by bike, the more space is there for cars also. Your bike needs not even a quarter of the space on the streets that a car would need. There may be times where a car needs to wait a moment for a bike that is not so fast, but in the end if 100 people go by bike you safe space that 500 cars would have consumed on the streets. Car drivers should be happy for each bike they see on the streets.
Here, in the Kootenay region, we are stuck with ebikesand the people riding them are treating them as though they are motorcycles and are continually ignoring the rules of the road for both bicycles or motorcycles..a bunch of aging boomers who are to arrogant and to stupid yo see the risks and dangers they represent, all while maintaining the same asshole attitudes towards people who actually license their vehicles and motorcycles and have to pay attention to the laws.
Piss off until you can recognize that you are a hazard to yourselves and those around you that actually realize that there are laws and don't require that everyone on the road has to watch out for you arrogant deaf people who are trying to get your own way one last time before you kick the bucket.
Maybe it's different in your area....but here it is becoming a nightmare for legal behaviour that others have to follow while you go to your dunking donuts or our Tim Hortons and ignore others safety, your own safety and the future of other people's lives who will survive a collision with you because they are in a car and you don't want to have to pay attention to the roads and streets around you on something that is not licensed or at least registered as all OTHER road capable vehicles and devices are in this place..
Grow up you ol pricks...stop assuming that the sun shines out of your asses and pay attention to the roads and rules.
Stop behaving as though the entire population around you is non existent.
I'm sick of people who are childlike and ignorant of fact being able to force other members of society to continue to play nice while you break laws and create traffic hazards for others around you.
By the way, I am 60 plus years old, and you irritate me...as well as the motoring public in general...
Once again, grow the fu3k up.
Pay attention to the laws and where you are riding..
Pay attention to the traffic laws.
Pay attention to your surroundings...
Maybe insurance companies will realize that money you are going to cost in claims and start forcing you to pay for plates...and force you to follow the same rules as the children follow...
It is way too easy to pass a driving test in the United States.
I'm 66 and an e bike has helped me get to bicycling again.
Many pro mountain bikers exclusively train using ebikes now. You can set the assist level so that you're in your target heartrate, instead of overexerting on a climb like you could with a pedal bike. You also get the opportunity to get more runs in a day. If you're serious about fitness, you can actually improve your conditioning faster with an ebike.
That’s interesting!
Don't pro swimmers practice getting pulled along by a mini train? Athletes are weird, and what they do is not applicable in any way to regular people
@@phinhager6509 I actually was a college swimmer and we used really long resistance bands that wrapped around our waist and would be pulled by our teammates out of the pool to work on sprint work. Lots of fun!
@@phinhager6509I thought that was a joke. Apparently it’s a thing. Haha.
learning this myself but with wellness. Had hip surgery at 18. So it’s really something to get out there and feel the difference day to day. Less pain and my attitude is if i am sore least i have good reason!
Love the information. I have a disability called cerebral palsy. I got a e-bike recently. It has a throttle but the max speed with the throttle is only 16mph, which I like, not too fast but not too slow. I wouldn’t be able to go to half the places I go without it. Ppl thinking it’s “lazy” to ride a e-bike forget about folks like me and others that might have a physical disability or just can’t ride a normal bike. Loved the video.
Thank you I appreciate it!
I have developed a chronic illness depriving me, much of the time, of the energy to bike/run/walk. Getting an electric bike was a little like getting a chunk of my life back.
@@mudmug1 true. Same here.
I’m 74 and retrofitted my now 22 year old bike 5 years ago following major surgery. I am able to ride 100km a week and most years have a couple of bike camping trips covering about 300 miles, carrying all my gear. Perfect.
My ebike kit helps me with reataining fluids in the southern usa which is extremely hot and humid. I run wider tires with tire liners and puncture resistant tubes at a lower pressure so i dont get flats. If i was using a road bike in my medium size city I'd be getting flats constantly from all the road debris. With the wider tires, lower pressure and the fact that im 230lbs I could only maintain 16-18mph with no wind. With the pedal assist i can travel at 22-26mph and get where im going a little less sweaty and feel less run down. Then there's the wind, I'm 6'2 so the wind catches me like a sail, a strong headwind and im going 10mph, with the ebike kit im going 20mph.
I bought my ebike in 2020 and have ridden 3,500 miles on it. From achieving round trips of 25 miles on my non motorised bikes I can now do great trips of 60 miles. I’ll do shopping trips with a good weight of groceries and have cut my van usage from 10-12,000 miles a year to 8,000.
Not bad for 68 having had two big bouts of colon cancer and one episode of kidney cancer. Even in the pouring rain it just makes me smile. Thanks for the video.
It does seem like his arguments are sort of like having concerns about bikes from someone who only walks. Bikes are faster, less green, and more expensive than walking. E-bikes are certainly this way to bikes, but when the main obstacle in our cities is the many issues of auto-centric design and infrastructure, there is room to build a better city with e-bikes if it helps move more trips away from driving a car. That isn't to say there needs to be a discussion on how to view and incorporate e-bikes and their higher speeds into our transportation network, but pitting them against bikes seems like the wrong way to go about it.
Yes! In phoenix with car centric design and weather that makes non e-bikes a health risk they are a god send and great for reducing car trips
For several years I gave up bicycling because I was no longer comfortable riding. Then the E-bike came along, and I bought a Blix Aveny, for $1600. When the Texas heat allows, I ride a 13-mile route that gives me exactly the amount of aerobic exercise that I need. I feel safe and comfortable on the bike. I am now eighty, and I will not give my bike up because some asshole thinks it is "elitist." As for expenses, I just took a quick search and found dozens of (non-electric) road bike models priced around $15,000. I always move over and let the riders of these bicycles pedal past me in their $3,000 worth of fashion bicycle wear. I just keep pedaling along, seventh gear, power level three, 15 mph. Fast electric or otherwise motorized bicycles should not be on bike paths, period.
Here here!
Why did you feel it necessary to comment about someone else's "fashion bicycle wear"? What difference doers it make to you, unless of course your comment disguises your jealousy. I wear normal clothing with the colors on the bright side. So what? Are you the judge who can wear what and when?
@@williamramey1959No wear whatever you want just don't expect us not to laugh when you look ridiculous or apply your chamois butter.
Don't lnow what a "fast ebike" is to you but a class 3 e-bike should be allowed on multi-use paths. We allow cars that can break speed limits on the road punish bad behavior not capability for bad behavior.
When I'm on a multi-use path I keep the assistance level down to go 15 mph.
When I'm on a road I want the 28 mph to be closer to the speed limit, does that mean I shouldn't be allowed the same capability to use a path just because I could possibly go faster than acceptable. Post a speed limit.
They need to start impounding these bikes they catch going 35-40 mph
My wife who is disabled is unable to pedal a regular bike due to chronic back pain, she bought a folding e-bike many years ago. It has been a godsend for her to be able to get out and travel the trails and still be able to make the pedaling motions.
I'm going to pick up a $10k (CAD) bike today, and I am by no means upper class; family of 4 living in a one bedroom basement suite. We've been using a cheaper e-cargo bike for over a year and it's falling apart. I take two young children to school and daycare every day rain or shine on that thing, plus regular grocery trips. We can't afford a car, and while public transportation is actually not bad here, a 15min bike trip is still usually a 30min bus trip with connections and potential for missed busses that can easily add 10-15min to the trip. When you have to make multiple stops in a morning commute, that's just not workable.
10k is CHEAP, and maintenance and insurance is also a fraction of the same for a car (i'm lucky that we can get bike insurance here, and you bet if im riding a 10k bike im getting it insured.) plus im getting a top of the line vehicle instead of a crappy used almost dead junker.
Wow that’s awesome. I really want to move more towards a car free/light lifestyle mostly for the financial savings. 10k might sound like a lot to some but if you added all the expenses up that go into owning a car the average car owner probably spends $10k A YEAR on owning a car. I think public transportation is great and we should definitely invest in it but I personally think bikes are the perfect balance between the freedom of going where you want and doing so without breaking the bank.
@@mattkenney3359Has it ever occurred to you that many people PREFER to use their cars. Public transport is little help to the aged and infirm. I am nearly 92, and still a keen road cyclist - Lycra and all - and 18 months ago I added an e-assist kit to my road bike to help with the hills. I only ride for fitness and leisure though, and would never dream of getting rid of my car, which is used for all utility or social journeys. I wish people would stop preaching to others as to what is good for them - just let people do what they prefer.
playground. You think 10k is CHEAP? For a bike? What planet are you on? You can buy a decent second hand car for much less.
@@vincekerrigan8300 I know 10k for a bike sounds expensive but I think it’s important to remember that these expensive electric cargo bikes are meant as car replacements for people living in more dense walkable/bikeable places. You could buy a brand new electric cargo bike every year for the cost of owning a new car when the average price of a car is around 50k plus all the additional costs of maintenance, insurance, gas, etc.
@@vincekerrigan8300 it's cheap compared to a car? yes, where i am, a used clunker is at least 10k, insurance, gas, maintenance is 500+ a month, and my work is in a hospital where parking is like 150 a month with staff discount. and congestion is so atrocious in this city, it would actually take longer to make all my morning stops by car vs bike
Even as an U23 national cyclist I do love the versatility and accessibility of an ebike. It means my commute can be more of a recovery ride.
I'm 62 and found that my newly purchased Turbo Vado ebike removes most of the 'torque', yet leaves me with the cardio workout. It's allowed me to ride about every day as opposed to about 3x/wk on my Sirrus. I now take on tasks that I otherwise would have taken the car. For reference, I live in a swanky 'edge city' that fortunately is somewhat bike friendly. Around here, ebikes have added people who would never have otherwise been on bikes.
I'm 61 and also love my e-bike. I go to work and back(8.4 kilometeres each way), to the store, to my daughter's, ... I just took the insurance off my car as I'm not driving it.
Just enjoy cycling or ebiking (whatever gets you going) , that’s the important thing to do
In regards to physical activity, you are citing a study done in "seven European cities" so those are bikes with limited power output, pedal assist only, etc We can not translate that to the American experience where the biggest selling point of an ebike for most people is "you don't have to pedal"
Yes you are probably right. It would be interesting to see a similarly conducted study done in the US but also examined the activity levels of riders using the 3 different classes of e-bikes.
You are probably right: in Holland only pedal assist is considered an e-bike and allowed on the bike lanes.
There is merit to this statement. For a lot of Americans, e-bikes in various configurations mean you've got something to skate with. Skating is slang for goldbricking. You could say that it's more like that when they ride them like scooters of whatever kind. I think there is a lot of marketing connected to that. In fact it's because of that that I get a little self-conscious when I'm riding mine. I make a point of using zero electric motor power for some of the ride, like for warming up, and riding with pretty high physical output most of the time so that no one can say that about me.
Anyone who comments about lack of exercise on an Ebike completely misses the point. Ebikes are about FUN and ALTERNATIVE TRANSPORTATION. Think of it more like a snowmobile in nicer weather. I use my Ebike to commute to work on nicer days. It's a 15 mile ride each way, most of it on a bike path. People who comment about how much exercise I'm getting quickly shut up when I tell them I'm commuting to work. Then they get a little envious. My biggest concern for the Ebike community is that there are way too many reckless riders that are going to ruin it for the rest of us. Ebikes are great for getting people back on bikes who've been unable to ride do to physical limitations. Hopefully, Government regulations won't get carried away and take the fun out them.
In the UK we generally have pedelecs (pedal assists|), class 1& 2, that can be ridden on cycle ways, multiuse paths, greenways and roads. Anything else is classed as a scooter that you must carry a valid driver's licence when using and have it ensured accordingly for road use only. Mis-use of such scooters is an issue but mustn't be lumped together with pedelecs used correctly.
Pedal assists are great for those who struggle up hills especially for those with physical problems making it hard for them to use a regular bike most times. It becomes a mobility aid which is cheaper and easier that getting a car every time they need to go out. It's a survival and freedom machine used this way.
I'd say ebikes are good introductory aids for places in the USA trying get used to biking as part of daily life. It can train up couch potatoes in no time and it's useful for longer distances. People just have to learn to chose their e-bicycles carefully for their specific purpose. There's no need to go for the most expensive ones either and heavier and bigger isn't always the best either. Those smaller, shorter etc need the lightest simplest bike to manage.
Interesting points!
And of course this means that a regular bike can go faster than an ebike in the UK. I can manage 22 miles an hour on my regular bike (for very short periods), but the pedal assist will drop out at 15.5 miles per hour.
I built an electric skateboard and used that to commute to my work office and back for 5 years with about 12000km (~7200 miles) logged. I could only use it during when there wasn't snow on the ground and living in Finland that meant about 4-6 months of not being able to ride my esk8 in a year. I then decided to build an ebike instead and got an old bike chassis from a colleague, which he wasn't using, for free, and he also sold me a rear wheel hub motor, which he also wasn't using, for 100€. The bike needed some maintenance (didn't have a chain for example and the gear levers were broken), but it was generic non-premium consumer model, so I could get all the needed parts cheaply from local stores. I reused my battery pack and motor controller from the esk8 for the bike. I have after that used that bike from the start of 2023 in the mid winter (couple cold days of -14C, but winter cycling is more about just getting your riding clothes correct) to this day in August 2023 and have done about 2500km so far. I have used the electric motor (I have a finger throttle) less and less as time has passed, as my fitness has improved I have improved the ergonomics of the bike and I have learned to love pushing while pedaling. I haven't charged the battery for 2 weeks and it's still nearly full although I have cycled 200km, usually I only use the assist on some of the steeper hills these days, but feel like pedaling on a flat terrain isn't hard enough for it. I haven't owned a car for 3 years and the local public transportation is also excellent and affordable, so I can use that if weather is terrible for example.
Ebikes are awesome in suburbia. I bought myself a mid-drive fat tire ebike with 1.6kWh in battery capacity and it is a dream. Definitely fair to compare them with cars because they absolutely compete. I can leave my car at home for lots of trips. I do think you need to be a skilled cyclist to use them safely though. Just hoping the idiots don't ruin it for the rest of us so we get to the point where we need licenses and insurance for them because that would really kill a lot of the appeal...
If e-bikes ever require licensing, registration and insurance might as well get a motorcycle
In our city we have rentable e-scooters and e-bikes. Some areas of the city have much higher poverty levels, and these machines offer people a lot of mobility options when they can't afford a personal car. I see tons of use in these areas.
I love my E bike. I'm 50 years old and have bad arthritis it gets me out and about more than without...
Ebikes commercially available are divided into 3 classes. Class 1 & 2 top out at 20mph and class 3 at 28. If you have an ebike that's faster then in my opinion it needs to be considered an electric motorcycle and licensed and insured as such. These are the kinds of vehicles that give ebikes a bad reputation. The benefit of ebikes is really torque and not speed.
The history of bicycles reveals that bicycles in the beginning were the play toys of the upper class. Because they wanted a nice surface to ride on paved roads were developed, which had been left to deteriorate with the advent of railroads. Mass production brought down the price of bicycles so that the middle class could afford them.
If ebikes are considered hype how does Mr. C-A feel about carbon frames, multi-gear systems, spandex riding costumes and skinny tires?
Mr. Coleville-Anderson is welcome to his opinions, but his criticisms don't hold water.
I think the e-bike class system we have is good but one of the reasons I went with the e-bike I did was because I could buy a motor and battery kit for cheaper than if I were to buy a premade e-bike with similar specifications as the bike I have now. This was because I used a bike that I already owned and converted it to electric which made the overall cost about $1000 cheaper and gave new life to a bike I didn’t use much. I also like that the makers of the motor allow for customization of the bikes performance such as putting in your own speed restrictions, pedal assist output, etc. I’m not sure if I would agree about requiring everyone who has these types of bikes to get a motorcycle license and insurance. Even though the bike is capable of getting up to 35mph at top speed. My average speed on it is usually less than 20 because I prefer to use it like a regular bike with pedal assist because it has a longer range that way. I see your point though and I’m sure there are plenty of people out there who ride too fast and use the excuse of it having pedals to justify it.
Yes I thought that was very interesting. I just read “Two Wheels Good” by Jody Rosen and thought his chapter on how bicycles were mostly used by the rich elite at first was very funny. Highly recommend that book.
I think Anderson would also find that in the U.S. we focus way too much on the sport of cycling instead of treating bikes like a tool for transportation. I’m sure he would find it silly that most bikes you find at a bike shop are all thousands of dollar go fast machines and expensive mountain bikes.
@@mattkenney3359 I agree with you that just because you can ride 35 mph doesn't mean that you always ride at that speed. If that were the criteria cars would have to be banned because some (like Teslas) can drive as fast as 145 mph. How it is we can put limits on ebikes and e-scooters and yet cars are as free to travel as fast as they can shows a disconnect in our thinking. I would rather have fast ebikes classed as electric motorcycles and ebikes within the three classes than see ebikes banned because of the faster ebike/motorcycles. The fast ones make the news when someone gets hurt or killed. The slower ones which people use to get around and make deliveries don't make the news.
I have two ebikes. The older one a class 2 and my new one a class 3. They ride completely differently. The first has a cadence sensor and the second a torque sensor. I'm put almost 5,500 miles on them and don't drive a car unless I'm taking someone else with me or going far out of town.
I'm surprised hearing his critique about ebikes especially without special mention of e cargo bikes and their popularity in Copenhagen. When visiting last fall I noticed practically every front loader cargo bike hauling groceries or kids had a little battery tucked into the rear rack. The trip convinced me to get a ecargo bike myself. It makes taking kids around and doing chores so much more fun, without the pedal assist theres no way I'd be able to fit picking up my daughter with a bike into my schedule. I've gotten more exercise and it's made it easier to make connections on my commute to my daughter's school.
From what I can see the critique is mainly of E-motorbikes, that is those with assist above 25kph.
On the speed point, I can go faster on my traditional gravel bike on flat ground and downhill than I can on my e-bike. My level one e-bike is limited to 20mph and it’s a beast to pedal faster. Sure it can go 20mph uphill if I push it. Also I can go farther on my e-bike so it encourages me to ride into town for quick trips when I normally would drive. I agree with you on the exercise part. I am way better shape with my e-bike. I ride more often and further now.
On elitism. You can walk into your local bike shop and pick up a $10k acoustic mountain bike as well. My e-bike was $3600 and it has almost paid for itself in lowering the miles on my car in a year.
Another point on elitism. Older people are more likely to use an e-bike and if they planned their life well they should have more money to spend on something like an e-bike. It’s not an elite that has enough income to afford a $4000 bike. It’s someone who has made good life decisions.
That’s a good point about acoustic bikes also being able to go 20mph+. Modest regulation may be necessary but a big part of it is just designing encouraging people to be considerate to other people on bikes traveling at different speeds. I think there are so many more benefits from e-bikes than their are drawbacks
@@mattkenney3359 another thing I have found is I can replace a lot of use of my ATV with my emtb. We are land surveyors and sometimes need a 4 wheeler to get places. With a cargo trailer on my bike I can do most of the things I can do with an ATV and it’s more fun.
@@MattnUska interesting! E-bikes are probably a lot cheaper than ATVs and less maintenance too
I used to ride my ebike with just the bare minimum of throttle to make sure I wasn't getting lazy on it. Then one day after work, i was super tired and for once decided to not pedal and just use the throttle on full. When I got home, i realized that i was super sweaty and felt like i had a full workout...because I had.
Although I'd leaned on the throttle, my legs weren't content to just sit on the pedals, and i had subconsciously kept up with the motor. It was a fun ride, fast, and great cardio, knowing that I could stop pedalling if I got too tired. From then on, I went full bore on the ebike (where safe).
Now, I've built up enough leg power that regular biking is fun again, and the ebike is gathering dust. But it's done its part to get me out of the car, at least for the summer.
Why does it need to be ebike or bike? I have and enjoy both.
I use my ebike to commute, where I need to integrate more with cars and also don't want to arrive sweaty. The ebike has a higher sustained speed (even up hills) as well as take off at intersections. I also prefer it for distance or for riding for fun with my wife (who wouldnt bike otherwise). We are both in our 50s, eat healthy, and are active.
I do appreciate that some people will be reckless with ebikes due to their performance.
I don't agree with the "laziness" argument, however. Not at all. Ebikes open biking to a much broader group, especially older people. These folks mostly wouldn't ride a normal bike at all. Also, pedal assist ebikes involve a cardio level effort. Every bike ride (ebike or not) is one less car ride.
Finally, ebikes arent necessarily upper class toys. Get real. Expensive sports cars are.
great points! Haha yes sports cars and massive trucks that never go off-road and only haul groceries
I've got an ebike waiting for my at the shop. I've lost a lot of the strength I used to have, especially after getting covid. My ebike is going to help me out so much by allowing me to get around our hilly city without exhausting myself on the uphills. I'll have more control of my schedule and be able to save more energy for other things in my life, versus the ridiculous amount of steps I get in at the moment that leave me exhausted.
An electric powered, throttle-controlled, two-wheeled vehicle that can do 35 mph is definitely a scooter. They’re technically illegal on our greenway.
I was teaching my 5yo grandson how to ride there, running alongside to help hold him up, and some jerk, throttle boy blew past us at about 35 mph. I hate those things.
That said, my wife owns an actual electric bike, which gives an assist up to 20 mph. The easy road to my house hits an 18% grade. The shortcut has a 24% section. I ride normal bikes, but for shopping, I borrow her electric.
So, I’m fully against scooters. They make kid-friendly bike infrastructure intimidating - just like the cars we work so hard to get away from! On flat areas, they aren’t even needed, except in areas with very hot weather, if you don’t want to end up sweaty. But in hilly areas, they can make cycling possible for those who couldn’t otherwise navigate the hills.
I totally agree. Whenever I see videos of very large Surron type e-bikes on cycle ways I think that is obnoxious and unnecessary. Those types of e-bikes are closer to motorcycles than they are bikes
Yes, here in California, assist power above 28mph makes it a moped, 35mph may possibly make it a motorcycle (I don't recall the motorcycle classification speed of the top of my head). To still be considered a bicycle, it can't have electric assist beyond 28mph and cannot have a throttle. A throttle is allowed with an electric assist max of 20mph. Otherwise, it's a motor vehicle classed as a moped or light motorcycle and requires an M2 motorcycle license, vehicle registration, and insurance.
Some people complain that the law is restrictive. I say it's inclusive. It says that the state law will still treat this powered vehicle just like a bicycle as long as it doesn't exceed these parameters.
I was an avid cyclist and runner. Despite a healthy lifestyle, I developed cancer and the chemo treatments damaged my heart muscle. It is what it is, I'm just glad to be alive. However, I can no longer sustain a HR above 135 bpm or zone 3. An eBike allows me to safely get out there and enjoy life.
I agree that e-bikes can help reluctant people ditch their cars for a bike in areas with steep hills or for older people. Where I live, biking uphill is almost impossible for the average people, plus e-bikes can help carry more load and replace a car 75% of the time, for things like grocery etc. However, like the author, I'm also raising my eyebrows when I see too much hype around e-bikes without the rest (and the most important part) following: infrastructure. If you risk your life every time you ride a bike, no matter if it's an e-bike or not, you're not going to do it. The e-bike hype can't replace good cycling infrastructure. For example, my local government is offering a subsidy for the purchase of an e-bike but at no point they seem to be considering to change the road legislation to make it more bike friendly. So, what's the point? The e-bike people will purchase will be a gadget if it's not meant to be used everyday. Most people already have perfectly good bikes that they can use, the problem is not that they don't own an e-bike, that they don't have a smart bike connected to an app or whatever. It's simply that it's unsafe to ride next to cars and trucks almost everywhere.
That’s a good point. We definitely need the infrastructure in place first and that on its own will probably incentivize more people than an e-bike credit.
Getting more people willing to try biking is going to build a bigger coalition for making those infrastructure improvements. They reinforce one another
A lot of people go into these loops about land use/density and transit, like, “we can’t build a rapid transit network without better land use”, or conversely “we can’t upzone without building additional transit.” It’s a trap, we need to do both ultimately, they’re mutually reinforcing, and it doesn’t matter which one we do first
The biggest problem I've noticed with Ebikes in my city is there's a certain faction of people who have zero regard for people walking on trails and/or regular bikes, and they wiz by them at 30mph without saying a word. I think these people will ultimately get ebikes banned from our trails here. It's really unfortunate but another example of a few bad apples ruining an overall good thing. Cities should definitely be investing in bike lanes as much as EVs etc, if not more. It's a great return on investment and a boon to local shops and businesses too if those lanes are an artery to a business center.
It’s been really interesting hearing more about this. The vast majority of comments have been talking about how positive e-bikes are but there are quite a few people voicing concern about reckless or inconsiderate e-bike riders that ride too fast by other pedestrians or cyclists. It’s opened my mind a bit more about the criticism of e-bikes being too fast. Thanks for sharing!
The speed is mainly an issue when you can just push a button and go. My e-bike is pedal assist. If I don't pedal then I don't go.
I recently took a train trip through Norway and wanted to see Saltstraumen, the world's strongest tidal current. My choices to get there (32 km from the city I was staying in) were rental car or rental e-bike. I went for the e-bike, and I enjoyed it sooo much. I never would've had as much fun riding a regular, non-e-bike for those 2 hours, as I'm not a very physically strong person. I would've had to push a regular bike several times when the road got fairly steep, and I would've needed wayy longer. Now I'm thinking of getting my own e-bike in due time, which will be a major improvement to my otherwise pretty sedentiary office lifestyle. Getting to work on a regular bike (tried it multiple times) takes me 50 minutes one way and my day starts sweaty and exhausted already. By car, it takes 12 minutes. An e-bike'll be somewhere in the middle and allow me to take a steep shortcut that I just physically can't do with a regular bike. E-bikes are a huge win for people like me ❤
Having thought about it, i think Anderson's 1st point is fair: an e-bike with a throttle that goes over 25 mph without having to pedal is more like a scooter than a bike.
In Holland these vehicles need to drive on the road and people need a driver's license and helmet for it. It would become literally become a bloody mess if they were allowed on our crowded separate bikelanes. The difference in relative speed with bikes is simply too big.
😊😊
Yes I think this is a more understandable argument
I love the irony of bike 'purists' that look down on e-bikes and say they are toys of the elite 😂
3:20 "...a little moped with pedals." It's funny how words changed. The original mopeds had pedals, the name is a combination of MOtor and PEDals. A moped was originally a bicycle with a "helper motor", even though it was usually a small motorcycle with helper pedals. Somehow the word seems to have morphed into a very small displacement motorcycle (50cc-100cc) which has less stringent licensing requirements.
That’s interesting! Some things come full circle I guess.
E-bikes, essentially low-powered motorcycles, have taken over our local trails. These inter-town railway conversions, whose trailheads are posted "NO motor vehicles," are now filled with motor vehicles. I don't really mind; they get lots of folks out on the trail who'd ordinarily stay home--I'm thinking of the very old and infirm. For those who have the ability to pedal a regular, human-powered bicycle but opt to go electric, E-bikes are a great way to avoid exercise. Last week, I saw an E-biker actually smoking a cigarette. hahaha ...at least he wasn't trying to pretend he was any kind of cyclist! 👍
As a bike messenger in DC in the 1980's I rode Pennsylvania avenue at high speed many times. The gridlock was so slow, bikes were much faster total.
Purchased my Trek Allant Plus S7 pedal-assist bike in June 19th, 2021, and almost have 5000 miles on it. Haven't fueled my vehicle in 3 months!
I have been riding bikes my whole life. I'm 65. Love my E bike, and learned the best type for me is a lower powered, lighter weight E bike.... But changing America to a accommodating traffic environment is going to be a monumental uphill battle...
Agree with you about Michael and E-Bikes. I really like his philosophy, but his position on E-Bikes is, I believe, not relevant to the US, Canadian and Australian (where I'm from) context. My E-Bike is used for covering the large distances necessitated by living in a sprawling city, and, being able to go a decent speed is also safer where the infrastructure is woefully insufficient.
I live in a fairly small area that gets crowded with vacationers and tourists.. my E-bike is a great solution to occasional
jam-ups or if I just want to go riding and want the option of power or not.
Bravo! Well argued sir! This is a very convincing analysis. All the arguments regarding E-bikes are accurate- while they are worse than push bikes in almost every case, they are still way better than cars. So from that standpoint, it is a no-brainer.
Here in central Europe, E-bikes are exploding - not literally, but in the terms of how many we suddenly see on the roads, and yes, mainly by older people. I don't know if they are cheaper here, but the bike shops are chock full of them, and apparently they are cheap enough that seemingly everyone can afford them.
As much as I despise E bikes personally, I have to admit, on an ecological level, they are far preferable to so many people driving cars- less pollution in both creating and maintaining and running them, less noise, less danger. Older people are less intimidated than trying to ride a push bike all the way to work or carry heavy shopping. So they are simply more likely to be used and thus to reduce carbon footprints.
I hope I never have to use an E-bike myself. But I applaud those who use E-bikes instead of cars!
I am 62 and have a bad leg since birth, I was always limited with how far I could ride, now with an ebike I can truly enjoy bike riding. I get more exercise also!
I'm not old, disabled or suffering from a long term injury. I just fancy an ebike because it sounds FUN!
I'm in my early 50's, and if it wasn't for my Class 3 foldable e-bike, then my mobility would be severely restricted. I'm on throttle the vast majority of the time, so exercise isn't a factor (and that's my own business regarding fitness goals as they relate to my transportation needs).
My e-bike is a fun means to an end, of getting out of the house and going to point b (my nearest metro station) so I can continue my multimodal travels in Southern California. Other times, it's running errands, going to the movies, seeing friends, etc.
There is a place for all 3 classes of e-bikes. While i usually go no faster than 21mph, even while dealing with city street traffic, it's good to have that extra performance for things like emergencies, or when it's safe to utilize them (like clear bike paths), that a class 3 (with a factory installed throttle) provides me.
I commute on my bike 6 miles through country lanes with drains potholes and crumbling verges. My road racer was almost as fast but I'd average a puncture a week . I've now upgraded to a fat tyre full suspension heavy e bike . It handles the bad riding surfaces much better. I don't have to cut into the road to avoid the increasing number of small obstacles to safe cycling with weaker wheels. The extra weight of the bike wouldn't make it viable to ride efficiently without power assist.... It keeps me out of my car . It's doable even wrapped up warm and in waterproofs when I use more power to avoid soaking in sweat. . I now cycle the route all year round. It's the opposite of lazy.
If not for an ebike, my life, health, and mobility would be greatly diminished. I'm 73 with a body full of common osteoarthritis and a damaged left knee. Riding a conventional bike even around the relatively flat terrain of southeastern Michigan is completely out of the question. My Sondors LX ebike, purchased as pre-production for about $2,000 US has been a godsend. I get a much needed cardio workout with near zero impact exercise of my knees. I compare it to swimming. Equipping my Sondors LX bike with large folding saddle baskets has made the 6 mile round trip to town to the local grocery store fun.
I feel the same way about my grocery trips now too. I love being able to pull right up to the front of the store on my bike!
I think the pros well outweigh the cons with e-bikes, especially if we apply some common sense rules on multi-use paths. First, I have no problems with Class 1 and 2 e-bikes on bike/multi-use paths since they can match normal bike speeds (up to 20 mph with assist modes). You still need to be careful since you are sharing the way with walkers/runners/etc. Class 3 and above is where we get into interesting territory, I think we should restrict Class 3 to dedicated bike lanes and anything beyond to roads.
I'm not going to judge those on e-bikes. My family owns 2 in addition to my non-electric hybrid bike. You _can_ use an e-bike for fitness, but is it really easy to let it do most of the work. I use it for long distance (10+ miles) rides at altitude since I live in Colorado Springs. For a true workout, I go with my non-electric bike, especially when going solo and under 10 miles (we have a lot of hills). I'm still building up to longer and more challenging rides.
I originally got the e-bikes for my daughters and wife that are still adjusting to the higher elevation. One is asthmatic, so she loves the e-bike. It allows her to get outside and keep up with me without triggering an attack.
An e-bike _can_ very green _if_ you use them for transportation _instead_ of a car, it really isn't a valid point if only using them for recreation. Of course, a non-electric bike would be even greener, but depending on the commute, that might be outside the range folks are willing to ride without assistance. It also depends on the power generation of your electric grid - regardless, moving a huge mass like a car for just one person (majority of commuters) is going to be less efficient.
Thank you for putting out this extremely good video. I'm very happy TH-cam's algorithm is recommending it and it's getting views. Hopefully people outside the "bike loving" bubble are watching this and it's triggering them to start biking more. I have an e-bike which I ride rarely, mostly for running choirs, but it got me back to cycling after 20+ years of not riding. Now I almost always get around by bike instead of by car.
Thank you so much I appreciate it! Glad to hear your e-bike brought you back to being able to ride more regularly. I love mine too and use it more often than my car now.
Good, thoughtful video.
I am a strictly self-powered cycling commuter. My bicycle is the main leg of my multi-modal commute (car to get to train, train to get to start of my cycling route, then bike to my destination. Reverse order to get home). 30 years ago when still establishing my career, an e-bike would have been the perfect solution to the problem of not earning enough to afford a car, having most employment opportunities out of range of cycling, and having poor choices for public transit. My circumstances have changed, but i think people today need affordable transportation options even more. E-bikes definitely fill a crucial niche in sustainable, affordable, and accessible transportation. Having said that, municipalities need to work harder to regulate the integration of e-bikes of all stripes into their cycling infrastructure. Operators of e-bikes need to be aware of the increased risks they pose to pedestrian traffic due to they're greater speed and mass, especially on shared trails. In a short amount of time, e-bikes have garnered a reputation for being ridden by reckless scofflaws. I won't wholly disagree with that, but I think responsible regulation would go a long way to alleviate that friction.
I'm riding an e-bike about 15mi to commute back from work now and it makes a load of difference when you're traffic cycling. You get up to 20mph and stay there without having to pound pedals constantly and being mindful of traffic zipping by over your shoulder is easier. Also the quicker acceleration you can get with full assist and pedaling is a big game changer. But the best part is I can do that 15mi commute 5 times each work week without hating my life.
I had to regularly do a 10mi commute both ways 5 days a week and I felt horrible. My legs were always killing me and I still wasn't in a very fit state. But I've noticed with my 1 speed at least I can just crank down the assist and get some cardio if I ever wanna work for more range. I'd say in the crappy urbanism most of the US has, e-bikes are going to be a big gateway for people who would have never considered biking.
Class 3 e-bikes that are going up to 30 are going to really fill a gap somewhere between cars and bikes - closer or further from motorcycles but also likely much, much less dangerous than motos. Mind you motos are cool but I think they are more sporty and badass where e-bikes are versatile, useful and safer (in the right hands.)
I switched from a Emountain bike back to an analog mountain bike for a while because i felt the ebike too easy. I then switched back to just a hard tail emountain bike and found the sweet spot between effort and ease. I then switched to an electronic road bike, and like so many other reviewers, found how much it brings the fun back on long rides. I'm still working hard, tired, and sweaty at the end, but not cramping or in pain😊. After riding almost 50 years ebikes help me enjoy riding again and keep going, especially with riders like 20 years younger.
I've taken my ecargo bike which cuts off assist at 15.2mph a little over 20 mph on a flat, momentum is great at fighting wind resistance 😅
I've seen a few of Anderson's videos. He's a very smart and interesting guy. I 've got mixed feelings about e-bikes and he's right about it to a degree. I question sometimes my decision to have one, but there's value there. It's in how you organize it. For very hot days, like 100 plus. For very windy days, like heavy winds. Both at the same time is common here. For winters, we'll see, but I expect the value is there too considering heavy clothes and boots, the awkwardness from that especially on a more athletic bike, and mitigated effort. If you're someone who rides bikes generally, you can organize in roles for the e-bike you buy. It's not the whole ball of wax. When you consider how winters can chill bicycling down to nothing, in places like where l live at high elevation, what you have is cycling when there would be nothing otherwise. It depends on the winters and the individual. I think Anderson is correct about the lazy people and the well-to-do, especially when the people involved never ride conventional bicycles and maybe haven't since they were children. There's that lack of experience as a factor. But if you're geared towards bike exercise and exercise in general, the e-bike as a concept is just one aspect of that and serves a bigger role in necessary errands. I've been biking my groceries with all three of my bikes this summer, with a backpack. It boils down to the individual guy.
Sometimes I wonder if I even need my e-bike anymore too. I Have a gravel bike that I love for road riding and exploring light off-road trails and I find more satisfaction knowing every mile I put on it is 100% my own effort. But I still really value my e-bikes. It’s really nice to use it for short errands cause it can haul so much more cargo and my girlfriend loves hers cause it makes it easier for her to bike without getting tired quickly. It is a Luxury but I still think Anderson was a bit harsh saying that they are the “Chariots of the privileged” haha.
@@mattkenney3359 In my city (Quebec City), you can rent a e-bike for 5,25 $CAN for a ride or get a subscription for a month (31$) or the year (114$ from May to October). They are still expending it but so far they have 780 e-bikes and 74 stations. One of my co-worker ditches the bus (94,50$/month) for half the year to go fully on e-bike. I might do the same when they'll open stations closer to my home. So, having a good fleet of rental e-bike makes it very accessible, even for people with lower incomes.
Are you phoenix? Cuase haboobs on the canals can be a bitch
I rode an e-bike until I built up the stamina and fitness to be able to ride a standard bike. I barely use my e-bike these days. Took it out recently after 12 months of it sitting there. I don’t think I need it anymore but I am nearly 54 and so I think I will keep it. I just ride my mini velo everywhere these days (unassisted). My concern with e-bikes these days is the inexperienced people on them taking wide corners, and generally unsafe riding.
Thank you for bringing this book to my attention. I'm definitely going to pick it up. My city is, at best, ambivalent about bike infrastructure.
E-bikes are definitely a point of some controversy. I'm a non-electric bike rider while one of my best friends loves is an e-bike only rider. My friend makes the same argument as you with regard to exercise -- you go farther and ride more. Thus, more exercise. The problem with this assessment is that for many people we are constrained for time. If you have only an hour or two for a bike ride during your busy day you will get more exercise on a human powered bike as opposed to spending that time on an e-bike.
My biggest problem with e-bikes is that their manufacturers and advocates are seeking federal tax credits the same as electric cars. I don't necessarily see a problem with that. There is an argument to be made for electric bikes as an alternatives to cars. But, where I live, there is a (slowly) growing infrastructure that is dedicated to pedestrians and bicycles with a speed limit of 15mph. These bike/ped only paths are heavily used by people as a car free environment. Lately, the number of e-bikes zipping through this trail network has been growing. If e-bike advocates want a tax credit the same as electric cars, they should be treated like cars and motorcycles and kept out of the bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure.
I have yet another question: in the video you show an e-bike doing 20mph breaking hard. It looked the bike had v-brakes. Don't these fast bikes need disc-brakes? If not, I can surely recommend them. Especially the hydraulic ones can be real life savers at higher speeds or wet conditions.
Yes you are right. That bike does have V brakes. Disc brakes are better but I have found that the rim brakes work fine as long as they are adjusted correctly
In the state I live in, your E-bike, if it can go over 28 mph(with power assist), it's considered a motor cycle and you need a motor cycle license to operate it.
I do have a motorcycle license but I pretty much only every use a little pedal assist. Although it’s capable of going faster than 28 mph I’m usually riding around 20mph or much slower. I have never had an issue with police because usually I’m am using it like a regular bicycle with some pedal assist.
I didn't understand the appeal of e-bikes in the US for the longest time, until I realized that it's more about keeping up with fast-moving traffic, i.e. safety in a car-dominated landscape, than it is about being lazy. Here in Japan e-bikes are occasionally used my moms with kids, especially with 2 kids to carry around at the same time, but I hardly seem them otherwise. I see a lot of people in their 70s cycling to the store for groceries here without even getting their heartrate up, but in general we are talking about a 5 minute ride. I would rather see more urbanism and less need for going vast distances at high speeds, but e-bikes may help bridge the gap in the meantime, as preferences and policies change.
America is obese on average. The guy who wrote the book has great ideas but does not get that most Americans need to go further than two or three miles which is about all the further an obese or aged person wants to go without just throttling it. I am aged and can go 20 or so miles fairly comfortable on my e-bike peddling the whole way. By moving off pedal assist one on steeper inclines or hills when needed only, I get back from a long ride and still have four bars out of five. I coast whenever I can to get free mileage. It gives me a great workout and distance without killing myself. People need to make up their own minds on e-bikes and not take other peoples opinions as gospel. Long live the e-bike.
Good points and good video. I suggest that we cap bike lane speeds to 20mph so that ebikes and pedal bikes can coexist in the same infrastructure.
And the issue with ebikes right now is that our society is so heavily geared towards the car that I'm guessing that are large number of owners buy them in addition to having a car, not as a replacement for a car. And within that context, they are expensive.
Thanks for making this video.
I appreciate it! Thanks for watching!
That's exactly what they do in most eu countries, max 25 kph and 250 watt motor is considered an ebike, above that it's a motorcycle and isn't allowed on bike and walking infrastructure.
There are a lot of e-scooters around nowadays where I live, and couriers on 250 watt ebikes. Regular people on an ebike though is a big rarity, and when I do see it, it's just someone riding for fun, not using it for transportation .
Love your color grading on this video
Thank you!
Thanks Matt!
I'm 70 yrs. old and holding. I also have multiple motorized bicycles, gas and electric all are DIY. I use the 4 stroke gas bike for the road and the electric bike for bike trails, gas bike is a bit of a grey area for the trails. Without these motorized bikes I wouldn't be able to ride anymore. Can't make the hills with out help, couldn't even walk the hills either. As for the gas bike on the road my bike has plenty of power for hills and to get out of the way of rude and dangerous vehicle drivers. My Gbike can do 40mph but I generally go 20-25mph tops. My Ebike can do the same but I generally do 10-15 mph. Our trails are 15mph limit, but I am often passed by road and gravel bikes. Cant say how fast they are going but they fly by me with no warning! Scare the C out of me sometimes. I often think to myself what if I swerved to avoid something at the same time one of these bikers are passing me.
As for the bike laws that are probably made by fat cat politicians that cant get their leg over a bike seat (our governor) make unsafe laws. Restricting power limits instead of just enforcing speed limits and not having bicycle laws in motor vehicle driving tests. Cars can have 400hp no problem but a gas bike restricted to 1hp is dangerous! Since I live in a rural area bike lanes are non existent. Thank goodness I have the power to duck into a driveway or mailbox area. When I have to go to town I'm forced to use the sidewalk. I go very slow here and when I come across a pedestrian I go very slow or hit the grass to go around them.
Well so far I haven't had problems with the police (we don't have many out here) but I have passed and been passed by them and give and get a wave. Probably because I'm being mellow and look older that dirt.
On that note, you all keep the shiny side up! 🚴💥💨💨💨
Good point about cars not having to have speed or power restrictions when they pose a greater threat to safety when drivers drive to fast. I love seeing gas powered bicycles. I used to see them a lot growing up and I always thought they were neat! Thanks for sharing and stay safe out there friend!
Wait you have a throttle? Where i am from i only saw pedal assisted e-bikes. Very curios how Eastern Europe has this category as the most popular for e-bikes.
Good vid mate. I'm a 53-year-old who has always used my bikes for sport, leisure and transportation. Basically, I've never really been one to leave my house without chucking my leg over a crossbar!
Here in London, England there are loads of people getting about on ebikes and it's definitely not just posh people riding them in fact from what I see they're the biggest innovation in getting ordinary working/poor folk like myself onto two wheels since London started taking cycling infrastructure seriously.
I don't have an ebike although I can see me getting one when I inevitably lose a bit of strength and still want to go further.
Thanks I appreciate it. I love both my e-bike and my gravel bike and have really been enjoying replacing most of my car trips with my bikes. Glad to hear your city is improving its infrastructure. I’ve seen videos and it looks lovely over there.
I gave up my car over a year ago. I know commute by e-bike 20 miles a day year round and Chicago winters are no joke. I have a road bike and love it, but I would not use it to commute to work and back. The criticism of e-bikes is absolutely ridiculous. My e-bike doesn't replace my bike; it replaces my car. And is a much greener, healthier alternative to driving. My class-3 e-bike tops out at 28 mph and I easily travel safely with car traffic. They simply do not pose a safety threat to cyclists. E-bikes should be incentivized in urban environments with tax subsidies to make them an affordable alternative to car transportation. they are great and the more people e-biking and not driving the better.
America has a special problem that effects all bikes, but especially normal bikes. most people poor or rich have been dependent on cars so long, that expending energy at all to transit anywhere is very off-putting. When we combine that with lower income people having already stuck themselves with an expensive car payment and wanting to get every cent out of it, and than start pilling on the obesity epidemic and general health epidemic, it becomes clear that Americans will only come to the bicycle, AFTER public transit replaces cars. I've been examining the politics of transit in my own rust belt city, and its clear that people representing the majority of the lower income residents of my city, clearly want to discuss and prioritize public transit and its costs and are very skeptical of bikes for both their utility and the notion that the infrastructure will be distributed equitably. Its a valid perspective, to most people they will only stop sitting and pushing a gas pedal, if they can stand or sit and do nothing instead.
Americans love their petrol vehicles--but not for long: No longer will the cars last an assumed 10+ years--nor will owners be able to fix them.
The appliance industry's import fridges don't hold up anymore--the auto industry has become the same way. And, that includes vaunted Japan makers
No longer does the auto industry care--especially concerning petrol-fueled vehicles.
A collect-call--from reality....
@@GeoffreyMorrison-xh2eo true, but the way the auto economy works The industry doesn't need longevity of the product, its doesn't even want it. The lower income people in the majority can control urban policy, and they are manipulated by that industry to stay poorer and depend on cars, for the real convenience of not having to exert much energy when they transit around. we cant jump to Bike infrastructure and tell everyone to start peddling, we need to focus on available public transit and get people out of cars first.
Cycling of any sort either electric or conventional is a great way to get around but here in the UK the weather plays a big part, people may be happy to ride on warm summer days but few will do so through the cold, dark, wet winters we get and retreat to a warm car.
I have a strong opinion about this topic. Ebikes, especially the fastest ones that really challenge the definition of the term (45mph/70kph Surrons, Talarias, Stealth Bombers etc) are our best possible chance to replace cars for a simple reason: these bikes are FUN!
Even electric unicycles can go 45mph. We can either embrace these vehicles (PEVs in general) and have a much smoother transition from fossil fuel or we can downgrade ebikes to the realm of niche product.
To me, and I know this will be a polemic opinion, it's acoustic bikes that should be treated as leisure items since ebikes are more pragmatic. Yes, an ebike will be more expensive upfront but it will simply allow you to travel further on a shorter (or should I say reasonable) amount of time.
can we talk about sharing the road and path with EUC's and scooters that go 60mph+?
How can the bike replace the car for shopping, well what I've seen is that your taking a chance leaving the bike and baggage carriers in some place off the side even if you can lock it, hope it's still there when you come out of the store?
I have replaced many cars trips to the grocery store with my e-bike bike. It’s great! Saves me gas money and wear on my car while also making grocery shopping more fun! I’ve also been commuting to work more on my road bike.
I usually lock my bike in a very visible location outside the store so I can still see it while I’m inside.
I think not a single one of Coleville-Anderson's arguments against e-bikes hold any merit and you perfectly dismantled his criticisms. Regarding the speed: in EU e-bikes (or "Pedelec" as most of them are) limited to 25km/h for electrical assist. Everything faster you have to pedal youself. And this isn't too fast in general as many cyclists reach these speeds completely on their own. The incredibly stupid "classist" argument is easily debunked if you just look around in any european city and if you ask bike dealers who will happily confirm that most bikes they sell are e-bikes now.
In my country, the Netherlands, cycling infrastructure is almost perfect. Only streets are shared by cars and bikes. (Nearly) all roads have dedicated bike lanes. However this cycling infrastructure was designed with pedaling speeds in mind, of about 17km/h. The speed of e-bikes is really an issue. Legally e-bikes may only assist up-to 25km/h, and that speed difference is okay for normal pedalling bikes and e-bikes sharing the same bike path. However most young people think 25km/h is not enough and modify their e-bikes, while for some elderly people 25km/h is too much and they get into accidents. For non-electric cyclists, who are still the majority, the ramped up bikes are a real nuisance.
Yes I definitely see how e-bikes would cause problems in that situation. I visited your country a few months ago and was in awe of your amazing bike infrastructure and beautiful country. Here in the U.S our bike infrastructure is really lacking. I think you are right about speed being an issue but when I am trying to ride on roads where massive cars travel 50mph+ (80kph) right next to bicycles, it can be really nice to have a little extra speed to keep up with cars or get to safer roads sooner. I know the real answer to the problem is safer infrastructure though. Thanks for commenting!
Problems always occur when vehicles are sharing the same space, but going different speeds. It is very easy to blame "the politicians, and the infrastructure." But there is a lot of personal responsibility in using public roads and driving a vehicle.
In the UK we have a 250w/16mph assist limit for ebikes. A lot of people decry this but apart from the wattage which is a very area in the small print & I suspect ignored by the main manufacturers, the speed limit is absolutely fine for urban riding. As you say, your ebike at speed is essentially a moped. I love Mikael & I get much of where he stands but ebikes had a lot going for them for utility cycling, in hilly environments especially
* ...a very grey area...
* ...but ebikes have a lot going for them...
(apologies, kindle fire autocorrect is not the best!)
Good points! Yes I really did enjoy his book and agree with just about everything in it. I do understand his skepticism of e-bikes but felt that some missed the mark a bit
also, you should compare e-bikes to scooters... the nearest private vehicle to the e-bike... if more people rode 50cc scooters, there would be less traffic, less waste less everything.. the only difference is they are not getting the exercise. But they are also insured, require safety equipment and are regulated and licensed... and if your goal is to get people who have a license already out of their car... paying $50 (however much it costs in your area) and getting your M so they can scoot around on a Honda Ruckus or some Italian scooter named Geogio... it will be better for the inevitable people that will be injured.
ebikes are not for older people or for the upper class. Ebikes making sense for alot of different people, also for older people because of the motor but what many people not understand is that EBikes are mostly a tool/vehicle to get from A to B and it can be used to replace for example a car in the city or a classic scooter. So the argument with lazy makes no nense because a car or a scooter would be even more lazy and with a scooter nobody comes with the "lazy"argument. For example in big cities Ebikes have replaced Scooters used from Pizza delivery companies. If you wanna workout and make kardio get a classic "Fitnessbike", if you want a vehicle that expand your range without the need of a car or scooter, buy an Ebike. I do think Ebikes are to expensive when you compare the prices of small cars here in europe or scooters. Some Ebikes cost 10K Euro which is the price of an Hyundai i10. The prices need to go down for sure.
In my city, I use my normal bicycle for anything below 25-30 minute rides. But because we are so heavily sprawled and have such awful bike infrastructure, it’s nice to use an e-bike to ride further and faster on sidewalks.
And yes I know I shouldn’t be riding on sidewalks, but if you say how dangerous Winnipeg streets are you would be on the sidewalk too.
This is funny because I feel like I can never win when it comes to riding on sidewalks or riding on the street. A lot of places it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk yet a lot of motorists get mad at me for “taking up the whole road” when I’m riding as far right as possible on a 25mph road and yell at me to “get on the sidewalk!”
@@mattkenney3359 I’ve never been yelled at thankfully, but I’ve nearly been run over by wreck-less drivers. I’m sure you have as well, it sounds like a common occurrence for most cyclists.
I think I’d be hard pressed to find a cop who would ticket a cyclist on the sidewalk as well. All I know is that if I had kids, I would tell them that roads weren’t safe, and to stay on the sidewalk if there wasn’t any bike lanes.
What I would like actually would be a specific kind of e-bike that (maybe I'm mistaken, but) I don't believe currently exists. I would like an e-bike that specifically acts like a bicycle version of a Toyota Prius. I would like an e-bike that doesn't have a significant electric-only range but can do regenerative braking to capture energy when coming to a stop or while rolling down a hill to provide an assist with starting from a dead stop or help climb a hill. That way, I as "the engine" still have to do a majority of the work, but I get assistance when I'm climbing a steep hill or taking off from a dead stop at an intersection. A good squirt from the electric motor from 0 to 5 mph or a modest assistance that would allow me to be a gear 2 higher when I'm climbing a hill would be very nice.
With a low capacity battery and a small lightweight motor, this would greatly reduce the complexity and the weight penalty that having this equipment on my bike would create. Even if it only had a 1 mile electric-only range without recharging. Because its primary objective would be just to capture energy during deceleration and use it to assist me with a brief boost of power when I need it the most.
Interesting idea! I feel like you could get the same effect just by using an e-bike but turning on the assist during stop/starting but turning off pedal assist once you are moving. I never get range anxiety with my e-bike like I imagine i would with an electric car because whenever I feel like I’m running low on battery all I have to do is turn the pedal assist lower or off and just pedal more. Very interesting idea with the regenerative brakes for bikes. I imagine it won’t be long before that becomes more common.
i'm someone who has actually switched from a ebike to regular bike, specifically 'cause i have better range on a regular bike, 'cause i don't need to worry about charge levels. some things to note, even in the vast majority of the US, ebikes that can go over 28mph, (and in many american states or cities over 20mph) are not legal as bikes. these speeds are higher than most people on regular bikes, but still in bike range. the ability to hold over 15mph on hills near cars is very important in places where there is little to no bike infrastructure. when i was on a ebike i would get passed by a car in a dangerous manner 2-3 times a day. now, on a regular bike on the same route it's closer to 10-15 times a day. and the most common ebike usage in US cities is delivery drivers, who are not "the privileged upper middle class". they are riding cheap ebikes for the real cargo carrying benefit of the electric assist.
You can still pedal an ebike when the battery runs out, ya know.
And you're then pedalling the weight of the battery too, even more workout!
@@worldcomicsreview354 yeah, it's such a trash experience that i refuse to do it a second time.
Why not a higher range ebike? Along with tire inserts
@@fgh2756 i'd still have to charge every single day, and it would cost more than double versus a non-electric bike on which every other component is nicer. i'm not saying ebikes are bad, just that they're worse than regular bikes for me personally. i got a very nice commuter non-electric bike for 1k. to get an ebike with similar features, plus the range to do my commute round-trip is about 3k (and many ebikes in that price range still don't have either the range or features). (in general i think regular bikes actually would work for quite a few people who are sacred of the prospect, and i do think it is a good thing that ebikes make people less scared to try something other than a car.)
I'm a 61 yr old vet and ex law enforcement (not lazy) would you say this to me having fun with bad knees
Some guy here mentioned walking--well, that's great.
Unfortunately, every activity and endeavour has its limits, as you indicate--succinctly and well!
What's with some of these guys?: They tend to consider themselves as invincible, invulnerable, and immortal....
i fix e-bikes for a living and can tell you for sure and for certain, people have become dependent on ebikes for reliable transportation and it is making a difference with less cars on the road! My only wish is most cities are not equipped for massive ebike traffic and sidewalks are in poor repair. The new wider sidewalk standard is a huge upgrade and should be supported EVERYWHERE.
Yes that central lane down pennsylvania avenue looks a bit dangerous... I was a courier in dc in the last century, and those big black suburban official vehicles would go racing at high speed down that central "lane"... There's no barriers there to keep cars from using it to pass, or to make a sudden u turn across it... which is exactly what happened to me once, some tourists from indiana decided to make a sudden illegal u turn right in front of me and i ran into the side of their car...
Some have pointed out that Ebikes have a higher MPG equivalent than regular bikes since the battery and motor converts energy more efficiently than your body.
I’m not “against” e-bikes and esp for older people and unhealthy/inactive people they are useful.
I ride my bike every day and e/bike riders stand out to me as being more inconsiderate and dangerous than conventional cyclists on greenways.
Not staying to the right and using the middle of the trail, not moving over for people coming the other direction or allowing faster cyclists pass. My experience has been e-bikes riding too slow and not letting me pass even with my bell and verbal requests to pass.
Also not using bells and not being focused on the other people using the trails.
It would be nice to see a change in the e-bike culture
My commute is 25 mi (40 km) each way. It's impractical on a regular bike, but my ~$1700 e-bike has almost entirely replaced my gasoline-powered commuting. And yes, it's much more exercise than sitting in my truck!
Back in 2020 I had bought a Sur Ron and it got stolen. I got paid from the home owners insurance and never bought another one as I just couldn't justify why I would need one. Two weeks a police department 2 hours away from me here in Southern Calif and told me my sur ron was recovered and I could come an pay the $298 impound fee and take it home. I was in pretty good condition just needing some minor plastic parts that I got from Luna Cycles. Now I have an ebike that did not cost me a lot and I can just have fun with.
Dutchie here with a serious question: you show images of a bikelane on Pennsylvania Avenue. It is insane planning, or it would be if there was much traffic...
And that's my question: why is this avenue virtually empty during daytime? A total of 6 lanes for so few motorized vehicles seems even more insane and a huge waste of money, materials and space.
What am I missing here?😮
Yeah I agree it’s pretty bad planning. Not sure how they missed the mark on it so bad. It is pretty crazy too because DC is also known for having bad traffic. Sometimes it’s empty and other times it’s a traffic jam. Which leads to more frustration from motorists because travels times are so variable.
Thanx for your answer. I simply cannot grasp how such a wide road is used so inefficiëntly. I always thought they were congested like their European counterparts.
So if I understand correctly, most inhabitants all step into their cars at the same time, causing a huge traffic jam, while for the rest of the day the main streets are virtually empty?
No spreading of work hours? No separate bus lanes for public transport during traffic jams? No separate bike lanes? No alternatives whatsoever for frustrated drivers?😮
@@user-vw4ui5gz6b you got it.
Well, after WWII, government leaders were concerned that the 30s depression would return--they figured that was inevitable--without immediate action.
So, we have this crazy car infrastructure--the maintenance of which we can no longer afford to maintain--much less enhance.
The Chinese recently erected insanely large buildings and cities--which have no chance of inhabitation: Similar reasoning. So, they suffer also--as well.
People here seem to assume that "fixing" our infrastructure is no big deal.
I suggest "Not Just Bikes" and "Strongtowns." Will it matter, though?
Personally I disapprove of urbanism. In my opinion I think that any free American (USA) should be able to own property with their own residence on it and not be enslaved paying high cost rents and owning little. Also I am against Homeowners associations dictating what one legally can do on their property or home. I enjoy growing my own food and other useful crops right in my very well protected ,multi fenced,sensored and with video surveillance backyard with multiple fruit trees and other shrubs and plants. I don't waste my property on a useless unproductive lawn. I live symbiotically with my pollinating insects,fertilizing birds and provide for them in my private environment. They need me and I need them. I essentially have a home victory garden in case of food disruptions. I also have several greenhouses to extend my crops most of the year. I disagree with urbanism because I can easily travel quite far and fast by bike or ebike and the rare large goods and construction materials I can order online and have them delivered right to my private residence. The USA (Union) desires that most Americans will live in densified buildings mostly as renters and is actively eliminating private homes for Americans (USA). I strongly disagree so much to the point that I won't allow a Stars and Stripes Flag of that country anymore on my property. I fly the Stars and Bars and the Bonnie Blue Flag peacefully in opposition to the rental slavery of the Union (USA). You don't need a car if you live in a suburban environment. That's a myth to deceive, fool,enslave and trap you away from being free. Either a light bike or ebike can take a person very far fairly quickly.
In Europe e-bike battery assistance is limited to 15mph, so the speed difference with normal bikes here is negligible to be honest - and it means the physical effort needed to ride one is pretty much the same for riders doing an average speed. Old people can tootle around slowly on their ebikes with lots of assistance from the battery if they choose, but most riders are going too quickly most of the time for the assistance to provide a significant advantage. I find the danger comes from from bikes with a throttle in busy city centres, as they can accelerate more quickly and riders can easily shoot forward by mistake.
Ebikes in the USA are entirely different, with class 1 and 2 bikes limited to 20mph and class 3 ones to 28mph - nearly twice the speed of bikes here in Europe. That is much too fast for safe riding in a busy urban environment!
Lots of distance and hills in North America.
I finally bought an ebike last year to ride to work. Since then, I've put more miles on the ebike than my truck. I show up to work happier & actually look forward to the trip as opposed to showing up grumpy because I had to deal with traffic. It's too far to ride my analog bikes, and I don't have to show up all stinky. If it's replacing a car, everybody wins.
I am a life long road cyclist. 7 years ago i started using a ebike to commute to work so i didn't arrive hot a sweaty riding up and down the 10% hills on route. I am retired now but still use it for shopping trips. Ebikes are superb for hilly towns.
I still ride my regular road bike for fitness though. Saying ebikes are for lazy people is stupid, are motorcyle riders and car drivers lazy?
A friend of mine, and me to a point, kind of need to use ebikes to be able to ride because of heart complications. I personally have heart problems, while not serious, do impact my overall health and well being... And I am not even 40 yrs old yet. Riding a regular bike, I struggle to take long rides and keep up pace without sometimes getting disoriented from the constant strain and exertion of just pedaling. So an ebike helps me out but lessening the force required to take said ride, keep pace around others and with my friends. I have no issues taking long rides, up and down hills, and back to back trips because of my new ebike. So ebikes need better treatment, and thought put into their integration into cities and parks. And conversely, people need to treat them more carefully. I have seen soo many idiots act a nuisance because they are on an ebike and can make a quick getaway. And that is absolutely not ideal.
Over here in the “flat” Netherlands almost everyone moved to an E-bike. What I see is that most of the E-bike riders are former bike riders. Hardly nobody stept from a car to an E-bike. Also you notice a great decline in body strength when when you for some reason are forced to ride a “normal” bike again. It's just a given that people tend to take the eazy path. At this moment we are where the US was 30 years afo, 70% of the adults are overweight.
All I can say is there a lotta fun I rode about 6 miles yesterday on an ebike basic very little exercise but fun.
Perfectly said. More people need to be honest about this. If you want the maximum exercise and are capable, ride a regular bike hands down. If you have limitations or just want to have fun ride an ebike. I have read articles actually trying to convince people that an ebike provides as much or MORE exercise than a regular bike. Obviously these articles were written by folks from the ebike industry lol.
The big point here is that even if half the planet decided to ride an e-bike, the amount of batteries and energy needed is negligible and therefore a very good option. Surely there will always be people asking why you can´t just ride a normal bike, but we have decades of proof now that this will not get people out of their cars. In comparison electric cars for everyone are still a pipe dream as we neither have the resources nor the amount of green electricity to power large amounts of electric cars, so we should probably go for the best valid option and that´s a mix of bikes, e-bikes, scooters and other low weight electric micro mobility vehicles that should ideally be used by a lot of people through sharing.