Genuine justice is not an entity governed by a series of pre-established rules; this is only what seeks to get closer to it. A better way to express what Clover represents is to instruct it as judgment, just as Flowey says it. In the end, one of the main precursors of justice is subjective legitimacy. Clover received and granted justice by following his judgment, even knowing that he could have decided other paths. Simple and susceptible to be considered pretty.
This isn’t Justice this is a kid paying the price way to early when he could have lived a (mostly) happy life Seeing the other characters outside shows how important the kid’s sacrifice was but it was far to premature Martlet looks like she’s accepted it but we can’t act like there isn’t turmoil inside her she told clover she wouldn’t stop him but she just assisted a kid who was (probably) not in the best state of mind to essentially end their time Ceroba is just looking forward she’s just there and it’s an injustice she got to survive because the same kid she just (ASSISTED) spared her life and she looks unbothered but I can’t genuinely say I think she feels much guilt to clover she was willing to kill him and she did I believe she feels extremely odd because she technically achieved her goal but has no reward but I see Starlo and he knows and feels the weight of his actions he knows he just helped a kid end his time he didn’t know much of the kid but anyone can deduce a kid willing to do that so quickly and abruptly has to have been in a dark place and now they are dead not gone but damaged beyond repair Starlo probably feels the guiltiest in the moment cause he was willing to take the kid in give him a home shot a family being his deputy The worst part is that clover was doomed from the second he fell in cause of flowey clover could never escape his fate and if flowey had done nothing from the start clover would have lived probably years with toriel and been as much of a symbol of hope as Chara was the best outcome ever for clover would be the genocide run the only one he becomes free and lives In conclusion clover was damned ifrom the start
Clover complied with his wishes, regardless of whether he was in an "unfavorable" state of mind to decide it, what makes it justice is that there was judgment on Clover's part, and that is what happened. Remember justice is a subjective concept and not necessarily what the majority's hegemony wants. Anyway, it's subject to diverse interpretations.
@@TomTheWretched in my personal opinion giving up your soul to a king that has promised to eradicate humanity and to a race of monsters that have completely bought into that promise is pretty morally questionable if not straight up unjustified
Sometimes, I wish the Genocide ending in Undertale never existed. Cus it makes Clover’s sacrifice meaningless. As well as the other humans too. Can’t save monsters if the world is destroyed right?
@@shockmaster0792 First, um, what? I'm pretty sure I was talking about "saving" and not existence, as monsters do exist underground. Secondly: what about clover's right to exist? Didn't asgore, axis and others violate his right and try to kill him? Yes i know that in neutral clover is killed by flowey but if it wasn't for him clover would have been killed by asgore or ceroba anyway.
@@alex87930 That's on me, I didn't write my comment well and misunderstood what you were saying. I think its important to remember that monsters as a race do deserve to be able to see the surface and actually thrive. its heavily implied no only in Undertale but also Undertale yellow that the Underground is slowly killing the monster race due to the fact that its the only place they can ever be due to the barrier preventing their exit. Monsters don't deserve to be trapped for the rest of their race's existence underneath a mountain just because they went to war with humanity a long time ago. Clover did deserve to live as well, and it is Asgore's fault that they can't even try to live out their full life underground without being hunted for their soul, but this doesn't mean that monsters deserve to be condemned to remain in the underground forever. It also absolutely doesn't mean that a genocide of their entire population and ERASURE OF THE ENTIRE WORLD is something they deserve. they are an intelligent race that humanity beat out in an earlier time in history. They are people at the end of the day and they don't deserve to just be made extinct. they do deserve freedom. We might now know of anything they did during or before the war, but from what we DO know, they have been stuck in the Underground for too long. they just want to have the opportunity to see the sun and be free once more. It's an Injustice that they have been forced into this position by Humanity just because they fought against them in a war. Thats how I see it and why I think that the monsters deserve to be saved. (also because I like them, I don't like seeing them suffer man ): )
@@shockmaster0792 That's an adequate opinion I'm not judging you. But I did not say that every Monster deserves to die, ordinary monsters retreat and can be spared after the first blow, so only the royal guards (or rather those of them who do not surrender) asgore, and ceroba on the pacifist route deserve to die. Axis and mettaton don't count, because axis is a robot and technically does not die but breaks, and mettaton does not merge with his body and will become a ghost again, although I'm not 100% sure of this. flowey is not a monster at all anymore. That's just my opinion, I'm not imposing it. If you like monsters but you don't deny asgore's guilt, that's a valid opinion like I said.
True Justice has been served...but justice goes on...But it will never disappear and will remain strong ...until you receive a call for help....and you answer the call 💛
The day is done, the time has come You battled hard, the war is won You did your worst, you tried your best Now it's time to rest.. Now it's time to rest..
As for those who wonder about Clover's condition in the path of genocide after decades of crimes committed against monsters, after a short period he became a homeless person sleeping on the streets, and after that he became a human moving in trains and different places, he became 25 years old and grew a beard and red hair, and his gun, whose power is beyond description, has been eroded and damaged, and his power level has increased to lv70, with the laser he uses to vaporize enemies has become invincible and it is perhaps impossible to arrest Clover legally, however he has a good reputation in many areas so he may have eliminated some criminals who deserved to be killed, Clover's psychological state has become deplorable, his face has become shaded because he is a bandit, his eyes are terrifyingly yellow to the viewer, he has reached the point where he sees dust covering his clothes as if they are just illusions and it did not stop there, he became a disturbed person because of the nightmares he sees while he sleeps, and the worst part is that there is something he has not been able to forget for all this time, Zenith Martlet who tried desperately Clover's madness was stopped by her turning into dust and mud, and her ghost haunts Clover when he is alone to remind him of what he did until he dies.
@potatoheadpokemario1931 This is a point of view, when Clover sacrificed himself, changes happened in the underground, including that Mo felt bored and no longer had a reliable customer, at least Mo had a profitable trade with a human
that's why i believe the genocide rout is closet to true justice, as everyone he killed aside from Marlot deserved it. the random encounters all attacked Clover first, Dalv attacked integrity, Starlo frightened his town and when everyone hated him for it instead of apologizing he attacks Clover, Ceroba tries to take Clover's soul, Axel killed Integrity, Flowey is well Flowey, and Asgore killed all the other kids and took thier souls
@@potatoheadpokemario1931 Don't forget what chujin said about the incident where one of the man's children almost killed his daughter. And besides, people are really cruel and blame everything on monsters and say that they deserve death is stupid. Ceroba lost her daughter and father and basically just wanted the monsters to be free, and without a soul it's impossible. Martlet thought all her life that people were enemies, but she tried to think differently. Think about it all..
@@ОлегПигулевский-у8з I have to admit I didn't do the pacifist run, and honestly even on a neutral run I felt a little betrayed by Marlet saying what I did was wrong. what I did that route was 100% self defense even excluding the world reset argument
@@soul-of-justice--utyThe killing of Ceroba is not entirely justified but is in a way. Clover should not be suffering because of the mistake Ceroba herself committed. I wouldn’t say Ceroba deserves to die but Clover dying is not justified either, it’s an unjustifiable situation in general.
@@soul-of-justice--utyAnd the fact that Seroba tries to kill Clover is justice? By the way, then she asks him to kill her. How is that not justice? From the point of view of an insane pacifist, but only when it comes to monsters?
I biggest gripe with undertale yellow is how genocide leads to victory and pacifism leads to death. They pretty much made a pro-genocide message that ruins the original story
you're viewing undertale yellow the wrong way. in undertale, we see that the yellow soul has already been collected, which means canonically clover either did neutral or pacifist (although i guess the TRUE canonical route would have to be pacifist since in neutral flowey just stops you from continuing), because if he did genocide then in undertale thered be way less monsters and no asgore and no souls, so either way clover has to die so we can reach undertale, and then in genocide he doesnt die because of the overwhelming power hes gained through his selfish actions of vengeance, he overcomes his fated death through LV and kills asgore and takes the souls, sure, but that doesnt mean he "won" nor that it was a good victory. in genocide he gets out of the underground with the souls and finishes his mission but at the cost of a whole civilization being eradicated for the sake of 5 souls and someones revenge, also now that clover has LV hes probably mentally unstable and distant from other people, he wont get to live a normal life and will be haunted by his actions forever. both sides lost, clover is alive, but is likely not living a good life. the game never intended to portray genocide in a positive light you just understood it wrong.
@@venade9997 actually they only needed to changed 2 things to make genocide fit into canon. remove flowery and have Clover save the game by his own power, and make it so Asgore wins the fight, as in genocide Clover doesn't kill anyone from Undertale Red aside from those 2
They didn’t. What Undertale Yellow provides, in contrast to Undertale, is a road to redemption. To correct things, even after unspeakable evil. Whatever reason Clover made up for ripping through every Monster in their way- be it a real desire for brutish Revenge, or a desperate attempt at becoming strong enough to finally escape the Flower- they inevitably come to regret their actions. Pacifist is the true ending of Undertale Yellow, it outlines the events that follow in Undertale. That means that Clover must have Reset, undoing not only the suffering they delivered upon Monsterkind, but also their hard-fought freedom, after hundreds of brutal deaths with seemingly no escape. In an attempt to atone for what they did, they completely accept their fate and give their life for monsters to have the hope that they couldn’t find. It doesn’t excuse, it doesn’t mean immediate forgiveness, but it shows resolve, the will to go beyond past mistakes and atone. And I think that is even better than the unwavering punishment of Undertale‘s Genocide Route.
@RiiftApart The fact that said main protagonist sacrificing their life for the freedom of an oppressed race all to possibly atone for the actions of violence they have previously committed in another timeline is a literal child in a cowboy outfit that's like 9 or 10 years old, this kid felt so awful for murdering an entire race that they reset and instead give up their life to the monsters in the hopes of them being closer to freedom as at least they get to have the chance to be free that Clover never got, which is pretty freaking dark, also just wanted to let you know I'm not complaining at all :3 It's insane to me that some really say genocide is the good ending, like bro what!? It makes me feel really concerned and scared for those people.
@ The fact that Clover is just a kid is the absolute worst part about this. They have become one of my favorite characters in all of fiction because of their struggle against their fate, but the whole story of Undertale Yellow is so messed up when you think about it, and you just don’t consider things that way at all when you first play it. This innocent kid jumps down a chasm completely alone to save five kids, and in the best outcome of events, their reward is *fucking dying* in the end. That and having the chance at living a happy life with a loving parent ripped away repeatedly and being cast out into a world of hostile monsters. This kid is going to need all the Gunpowder they could ever want if they come back to life. And therapy. Lots of therapy. Also, yes, the people who unironically say that Geno Clover did the right thing either have something *profoundly* wrong with them, or, well, are no older than 12.
![[DELTARUNE: Chapter Rewritten] Snowstorm](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oF9i0UOkIjc/mqdefault.jpg)
I know that it is obvious, but...patience soul waited until others said their line and than do it itself. Cool
Genuine justice is not an entity governed by a series of pre-established rules; this is only what seeks to get closer to it. A better way to express what Clover represents is to instruct it as judgment, just as Flowey says it. In the end, one of the main precursors of justice is subjective legitimacy. Clover received and granted justice by following his judgment, even knowing that he could have decided other paths. Simple and susceptible to be considered pretty.
This isn’t Justice this is a kid paying the price way to early when he could have lived a (mostly) happy life Seeing the other characters outside shows how important the kid’s sacrifice was but it was far to premature Martlet looks like she’s accepted it but we can’t act like there isn’t turmoil inside her she told clover she wouldn’t stop him but she just assisted a kid who was (probably) not in the best state of mind to essentially end their time Ceroba is just looking forward she’s just there and it’s an injustice she got to survive because the same kid she just (ASSISTED) spared her life and she looks unbothered but I can’t genuinely say I think she feels much guilt to clover she was willing to kill him and she did I believe she feels extremely odd because she technically achieved her goal but has no reward but I see Starlo and he knows and feels the weight of his actions he knows he just helped a kid end his time he didn’t know much of the kid but anyone can deduce a kid willing to do that so quickly and abruptly has to have been in a dark place and now they are dead not gone but damaged beyond repair
Starlo probably feels the guiltiest in the moment cause he was willing to take the kid in give him a home shot a family being his deputy
The worst part is that clover was doomed from the second he fell in cause of flowey clover could never escape his fate and if flowey had done nothing from the start clover would have lived probably years with toriel and been as much of a symbol of hope as Chara was the best outcome ever for clover would be the genocide run the only one he becomes free and lives
In conclusion clover was damned ifrom the start
which is my biggest gripe with UTY
@@potatoheadpokemario1931 I KNOW RIGHT
Too much text, it makes me lazy.
Clover complied with his wishes, regardless of whether he was in an "unfavorable" state of mind to decide it, what makes it justice is that there was judgment on Clover's part, and that is what happened. Remember justice is a subjective concept and not necessarily what the majority's hegemony wants. Anyway, it's subject to diverse interpretations.
@@TomTheWretched in my personal opinion giving up your soul to a king that has promised to eradicate humanity and to a race of monsters that have completely bought into that promise is pretty morally questionable if not straight up unjustified
Sometimes, I wish the Genocide ending in Undertale never existed.
Cus it makes Clover’s sacrifice meaningless. As well as the other humans too.
Can’t save monsters if the world is destroyed right?
What makes you think they deserve to be saved?
@@alex87930the fact that they have the right to exist just as any other living being does?
@@shockmaster0792 First, um, what? I'm pretty sure I was talking about "saving" and not existence, as monsters do exist underground.
Secondly: what about clover's right to exist? Didn't asgore, axis and others violate his right and try to kill him?
Yes i know that in neutral clover is killed by flowey but if it wasn't for him clover would have been killed by asgore or ceroba anyway.
@@alex87930 That's on me, I didn't write my comment well and misunderstood what you were saying. I think its important to remember that monsters as a race do deserve to be able to see the surface and actually thrive. its heavily implied no only in Undertale but also Undertale yellow that the Underground is slowly killing the monster race due to the fact that its the only place they can ever be due to the barrier preventing their exit. Monsters don't deserve to be trapped for the rest of their race's existence underneath a mountain just because they went to war with humanity a long time ago. Clover did deserve to live as well, and it is Asgore's fault that they can't even try to live out their full life underground without being hunted for their soul, but this doesn't mean that monsters deserve to be condemned to remain in the underground forever. It also absolutely doesn't mean that a genocide of their entire population and ERASURE OF THE ENTIRE WORLD is something they deserve. they are an intelligent race that humanity beat out in an earlier time in history. They are people at the end of the day and they don't deserve to just be made extinct. they do deserve freedom. We might now know of anything they did during or before the war, but from what we DO know, they have been stuck in the Underground for too long. they just want to have the opportunity to see the sun and be free once more. It's an Injustice that they have been forced into this position by Humanity just because they fought against them in a war. Thats how I see it and why I think that the monsters deserve to be saved. (also because I like them, I don't like seeing them suffer man ): )
@@shockmaster0792 That's an adequate opinion I'm not judging you. But I did not say that every Monster deserves to die, ordinary monsters retreat and can be spared after the first blow, so only the royal guards (or rather those of them who do not surrender) asgore, and ceroba on the pacifist route deserve to die. Axis and mettaton don't count, because axis is a robot and technically does not die but breaks, and mettaton does not merge with his body and will become a ghost again, although I'm not 100% sure of this. flowey is not a monster at all anymore. That's just my opinion, I'm not imposing it. If you like monsters but you don't deny asgore's guilt, that's a valid opinion like I said.
A-Am not crying I swear...I-I just catched some sand in my eye 😭
It's ok, pardner, sometimes it's ok to cry and hide it. .
True Justice has been served...but justice goes on...But it will never disappear and will remain strong ...until you receive a call for help....and you answer the call 💛
Nice reference to the omega flowey fight.
TRUE JUSTICE HAS BEEN SERVED
May the our young sheriff rest now, slumber peacefully… in the light of heaven.
The day is done, the time has come
You battled hard, the war is won
You did your worst, you tried your best
Now it's time to rest..
Now it's time to rest..
Yet again, another fire animation
As for those who wonder about Clover's condition in the path of genocide after decades of crimes committed against monsters, after a short period he became a homeless person sleeping on the streets, and after that he became a human moving in trains and different places, he became 25 years old and grew a beard and red hair, and his gun, whose power is beyond description, has been eroded and damaged, and his power level has increased to lv70, with the laser he uses to vaporize enemies has become invincible and it is perhaps impossible to arrest Clover legally, however he has a good reputation in many areas so he may have eliminated some criminals who deserved to be killed, Clover's psychological state has become deplorable, his face has become shaded because he is a bandit, his eyes are terrifyingly yellow to the viewer, he has reached the point where he sees dust covering his clothes as if they are just illusions and it did not stop there, he became a disturbed person because of the nightmares he sees while he sleeps, and the worst part is that there is something he has not been able to forget for all this time, Zenith Martlet who tried desperately Clover's madness was stopped by her turning into dust and mud, and her ghost haunts Clover when he is alone to remind him of what he did until he dies.
If the gun was made by monsters I don’t think it can break
Martlet was Clover's only true friend in the underground, beside Mo
Bro I saw this on Reddit but still happy to see it be spread please give credit
@potatoheadpokemario1931 This is a point of view, when Clover sacrificed himself, changes happened in the underground, including that Mo felt bored and no longer had a reliable customer, at least Mo had a profitable trade with a human
@BrandonOConnell-vm6mp don,t know WHO IS the owner, and besides (don,t call me bro please)
Happy birthday, Undertale yellow 💛
And that why Undertale yellow pacifist is a masterpiece.
Don't worry Cloverbros! He will be back on Deltarune Chapter 3! My cowboy prince is not dead!
Gunhat lives on.
What kind of 'true' justice is this? Kid who did nobody any wrong is dead. There was no justice for Clover in the end
that's why i believe the genocide rout is closet to true justice, as everyone he killed aside from Marlot deserved it. the random encounters all attacked Clover first, Dalv attacked integrity, Starlo frightened his town and when everyone hated him for it instead of apologizing he attacks Clover, Ceroba tries to take Clover's soul, Axel killed Integrity, Flowey is well Flowey, and Asgore killed all the other kids and took thier souls
@@potatoheadpokemario1931
dude, don't let a game make you justify killing someone, much less wiping out an entire race.
@@potatoheadpokemario1931
Dalv didn't really attack Integrity, they attacked Kanako and Dalv wanted to help her in the first place
@@potatoheadpokemario1931 Don't forget what chujin said about the incident where one of the man's children almost killed his daughter. And besides, people are really cruel and blame everything on monsters and say that they deserve death is stupid. Ceroba lost her daughter and father and basically just wanted the monsters to be free, and without a soul it's impossible. Martlet thought all her life that people were enemies, but she tried to think differently. Think about it all..
@@ОлегПигулевский-у8з I have to admit I didn't do the pacifist run, and honestly even on a neutral run I felt a little betrayed by Marlet saying what I did was wrong. what I did that route was 100% self defense even excluding the world reset argument
That's what he does all day long 😵💫
True Justice
Yellow-coded
Justice has be done 💛
NOOOOOO MY CHILD
💛
What an animation.... but tbh isnt smooth sometimes
siigh.. crying over pixels again 😭
Flawed pacifist is the closest to true justice actually
Clover tries to do the right thing and kill Asgore, but fails.
but clover killed ceroba too, that ain't justice.
@@soul-of-justice--utyThe killing of Ceroba is not entirely justified but is in a way. Clover should not be suffering because of the mistake Ceroba herself committed. I wouldn’t say Ceroba deserves to die but Clover dying is not justified either, it’s an unjustifiable situation in general.
@@soul-of-justice--utyAnd the fact that Seroba tries to kill Clover is justice? By the way, then she asks him to kill her. How is that not justice? From the point of view of an insane pacifist, but only when it comes to monsters?
@@alex87930 oh.
I biggest gripe with undertale yellow is how genocide leads to victory and pacifism leads to death. They pretty much made a pro-genocide message that ruins the original story
you're viewing undertale yellow the wrong way. in undertale, we see that the yellow soul has already been collected, which means canonically clover either did neutral or pacifist (although i guess the TRUE canonical route would have to be pacifist since in neutral flowey just stops you from continuing), because if he did genocide then in undertale thered be way less monsters and no asgore and no souls, so either way clover has to die so we can reach undertale, and then in genocide he doesnt die because of the overwhelming power hes gained through his selfish actions of vengeance, he overcomes his fated death through LV and kills asgore and takes the souls, sure, but that doesnt mean he "won" nor that it was a good victory. in genocide he gets out of the underground with the souls and finishes his mission but at the cost of a whole civilization being eradicated for the sake of 5 souls and someones revenge, also now that clover has LV hes probably mentally unstable and distant from other people, he wont get to live a normal life and will be haunted by his actions forever. both sides lost, clover is alive, but is likely not living a good life. the game never intended to portray genocide in a positive light you just understood it wrong.
@@venade9997 actually they only needed to changed 2 things to make genocide fit into canon. remove flowery and have Clover save the game by his own power, and make it so Asgore wins the fight, as in genocide Clover doesn't kill anyone from Undertale Red aside from those 2
They didn’t.
What Undertale Yellow provides, in contrast to Undertale, is a road to redemption. To correct things, even after unspeakable evil.
Whatever reason Clover made up for ripping through every Monster in their way- be it a real desire for brutish Revenge, or a desperate attempt at becoming strong enough to finally escape the Flower- they inevitably come to regret their actions.
Pacifist is the true ending of Undertale Yellow, it outlines the events that follow in Undertale. That means that Clover must have Reset, undoing not only the suffering they delivered upon Monsterkind, but also their hard-fought freedom, after hundreds of brutal deaths with seemingly no escape.
In an attempt to atone for what they did, they completely accept their fate and give their life for monsters to have the hope that they couldn’t find.
It doesn’t excuse, it doesn’t mean immediate forgiveness, but it shows resolve, the will to go beyond past mistakes and atone. And I think that is even better than the unwavering punishment of Undertale‘s Genocide Route.
@RiiftApart The fact that said main protagonist sacrificing their life for the freedom of an oppressed race all to possibly atone for the actions of violence they have previously committed in another timeline is a literal child in a cowboy outfit that's like 9 or 10 years old, this kid felt so awful for murdering an entire race that they reset and instead give up their life to the monsters in the hopes of them being closer to freedom as at least they get to have the chance to be free that Clover never got, which is pretty freaking dark, also just wanted to let you know I'm not complaining at all :3
It's insane to me that some really say genocide is the good ending, like bro what!? It makes me feel really concerned and scared for those people.
@ The fact that Clover is just a kid is the absolute worst part about this. They have become one of my favorite characters in all of fiction because of their struggle against their fate, but the whole story of Undertale Yellow is so messed up when you think about it, and you just don’t consider things that way at all when you first play it. This innocent kid jumps down a chasm completely alone to save five kids, and in the best outcome of events, their reward is *fucking dying* in the end. That and having the chance at living a happy life with a loving parent ripped away repeatedly and being cast out into a world of hostile monsters. This kid is going to need all the Gunpowder they could ever want if they come back to life. And therapy. Lots of therapy.
Also, yes, the people who unironically say that Geno Clover did the right thing either have something *profoundly* wrong with them, or, well, are no older than 12.
💛
Why u attack the can of coke
@nicolassteckert7149 I'm really sorry for that, but at that moment it felt like I was being controlled.