There are so many factors that make a drum sound pleasing: heads, tensioning, muffling, shell, rims, sticks, suspension, bearing edges, reinforcement rings, environment, etc. But I think the factor that far out shadows everything is who's playing the drum.
...the die-casts dry out the tone of the drum which is most noticeable off-center - so you are right with your observations. The biggest differences are of course the rimshots...
A good video, I can understand why many wouldn't notice the difference. But with decent headphones you can notice a difference... Die cast rims very slightly choke the high pitched over tones, Its like a very slight trim in the EQ. It's only small though... Where I really noticed the real difference is in tuning my drums and keeping them tuned. (I tune to notes... G, E, C, A F) (C and E for snare drum) so I notice pretty quickly if a drum head slips out of tune. Die cast rims are a pain in the butt to tune with when you first put a new head on, but once the drum is tuned they stay tuned for ages and don't move or flex. This is great if your moving the drums regularly and bumping the rims by handling them / packing them up, playing in different places all the time etc. (Any need to retune is minimal) Triple flanged rims make a drum easier to tune first up when replacing a head and are quicker to tune when you do need to retune on a gig because you can tighten one or two lugs without it affecting others as the flex in the rim can manipulated if you know how to. However triple flanged rims tend to go out of tune quicker through handing, temperature changes etc. It depends on where you want to spend your time. Do you want to spend time tweaking and tuning at home before the gig and then have nothing to do at the gig OR do you spend less time at home tuning pre gig and a little bit in between sets or songs at the gig. I have two gigging kits, one has die cast rims the other has triple flanged rims... I use the die cast for major shows where I can't get access to the kit to tune (like theatre shows or noisy venues where tuning is hard with back ground noise.) Triple flanged are cool for rushing to the gig after work or sudden sit in gigs, where I can tune / re tune easily between sets because I didn't get time to tune properly before the show. Thanks for the video.
Gary McDonald I tune my kit at the venue every time just because different rooms can create different sounds. Plus the changes in temperature/humidity can affect the way the heads sound.
@mitchmitchells ...it was the diecast hoop on the reso side in all examples (as I didn't have a flanged one for the reso side). You can change the batter side only - it will have more impact on the sound than the reso side - especially for the rimshots! Just want to mention that the subtle changes here in this video may be a result from using the Genera HD Dry as batter head - a G1 or Ambassador would reveal the differences much more.
Come on folks - I was urged recently to delete several comments here because it was not a discussion going on there but throwing bad words to each other. If this doesn't stop I'm forced to block people from commenting here or shut down the discussion at all.
They sound different, but I'm not sure I would say one is better than the other. If I had to choose though, I would choose die cast, because I think they look badass.
thanks for the comparison man. what hoop did you have on the bottom in both cases? im thinkin of changing to die cast but not sure if u can just change the top or if you have to do both
when just hitting the center of the drum, I don't really notice a difference between the two. It wasn't until you did the cross stick stuff where I noticed the difference...but die cast seems to keep a very evened out tone to the drum, I noticed less of an extreme in tone change when playing in the center and then going to the outer edges. Which was the opposite in the case of the flanged hoop...does that fall in line as to what the established/known differences are?
That,s a great demo..good to see both have different flavours...Stuart Copeland used a diecast hoop on top of his pearl cob for a dryer sound.. to my ears the diecast is crackier..and the flanged more open sound. fantastic!!!!
Good demo! After reading some comments i will trie to ventilate my Dutch view on it:). At first, please figure out what sound you're looking for. In most cases you'll find the die-cast hoops are worth trying because of the more overtones lacking and more focussed (tied if you like) sound. Also the blurred spectrum of flanged looses you on volume. When you are just like me deleting unwanted rings and humble in your drum, this is one of the first things you'll have to do. Other things i did is nylon washers between rods and hoops and Evans clear controlled tom resoheads and EC2 frosted batterheads. In my case my 10"racktom resohead was disturbing my snaresound so i went looking for things and i found it... Oh, my drumkit is miked-up with Beyerdynamic condenser microphones so i notice every bleeding and rings en buzzthings... I can imagine that a jazzdrummer prefers flanged above die-cast but then a rockdrummer loves the die-cast.
Reality... and lets be honest... most of this crap doesn't matter once you've to 2 guitarist, bass player and vocalist whaling over top of it. There's also mic selection, eq, fx, crowd noise, etc... The most important factor is who is hitting it.
Thank you... I've grown tired of listening to musicians who point out these ridiculously minute details as "golden" or "magical"... If you LIKE it, buy it... otherwise its a waste of money.
If you're talking about 95% of the shit music out there now, you're right, it doesn't matter. Most drummers I've had to deal with since the 90 have their kits covered in tape and play at one of two volumes - like guitar players who have their quiet clean tone and their overdrive at the click of a pedal - night and day. I mean, if we're talking about a $12k 1962 SG but you're playing it through a JCM 800, cranked and through a few pedals, of course no one is going to be able to tell difference between that and some $600 Epiphone SG you just pulled off the wall from Guitar Center. But if you're dealing with players who understand dynamics and are creating music that takes advantage of that sort of nuance, it makes *all* the difference. Granted, this video doesn't do the best job of demonstrating the difference between these two (largely due to the recording) hoops absolutely *can* make a massive difference in drum tone.
I think it depends on your style of playing. I tried die cast hoops and found them to be perfect for powerful rock style playing. However, I play lighter jazz in small venues and the flanged hoops give me the sound I want. I replaced my factory 1.6mm hoops with Gibraltar 2.3mm Power Hoops for better head control while still giving me the unstifled sound I want.
thanks for the video, I'm late to the party by 6 years! Anyway just wanted to share my story. I love Die-Cast hoops I have Gretsch Drums a Stewart Copeland Snare and a Tama SLP 13"x7" snare which have Die Cast hoops (love the drums love them!) and I have a Pork Pie Pork rub finish 6.5 snare that I thought I would try putting a die cast hoop on replacing the triple flanged...I changed it back and forth 3x! and I just didn't like how it sounded on that drum plus the lugs were slightly off and the threads were real tight, so it's a preference for certain drums I guess. My next venture ha!.... I ordered an 8 hole Die-Cast hoop for my 14" Remo Roto Tom not sure how that will work but like I said I love Die-Cast hoops but sometimes it just doesn't work out right, I'm hoping I love the Roto even more than I do now but it's an experiment which is fun!
I don't know, they came from factory with the drum. Obviously they are not as bulky as some of the 80's Sonor designs. The rimshots were painstaking loud with these on, the whole drum was loud as hell... She left the house after some years.
OSDrum Some Sonor Chinese made snare drums had those type on them - killer drums regardless - but get your hands on them big chunky german hoops. Better have some money left over because the sound will shatter all the windows in your house! Haha
Good video, OSDrum. It actually confirms my suspicions: flanged hoops allow for a bit more tonality, which - to my ears - translates to more presence in the mix. It's a totally subjective matter of taste, of course; for me, flanged = better. Well done, man - this should have been done long ago. Gonna do one on toms?
I have sold this drum long ago! I use an S-Hoop on my DW 6.5*14 Maple Snare and love it for the sound and feel! The perfect protection for the edge on the batter side is a nice extra feature.
Duuude one of my buddies had an S-hoop in his snare and sounded soooooo crisp and beautiful! I now want to invest in the s-hoops!!! No moongel needed either!
Nice video, haven't seen much focus on the rims even though it is a huge difference - I totally favor die-cast. However, you should practice your buzz and single stroke - rolls ;)
Thank you for tuning each to the same exact pitch for a good comparison. A little less overtones with the diecast.
There are so many factors that make a drum sound pleasing: heads, tensioning, muffling, shell, rims, sticks, suspension, bearing edges, reinforcement rings, environment, etc. But I think the factor that far out shadows everything is who's playing the drum.
die cast just makes your snare look like a tank
So true, I don’t like that look either.
It looks amazing!
newboldspawn I like the way it looks
With no rim hits: the die cast sounds dead while the flanged "speaks". Excellent demo. Thank You!
...the die-casts dry out the tone of the drum which is most noticeable off-center - so you are right with your observations. The biggest differences are of course the rimshots...
A good video, I can understand why many wouldn't notice the difference. But with decent headphones you can notice a difference... Die cast rims very slightly choke the high pitched over tones, Its like a very slight trim in the EQ. It's only small though... Where I really noticed the real difference is in tuning my drums and keeping them tuned. (I tune to notes... G, E, C, A F) (C and E for snare drum) so I notice pretty quickly if a drum head slips out of tune. Die cast rims are a pain in the butt to tune with when you first put a new head on, but once the drum is tuned they stay tuned for ages and don't move or flex. This is great if your moving the drums regularly and bumping the rims by handling them / packing them up, playing in different places all the time etc. (Any need to retune is minimal) Triple flanged rims make a drum easier to tune first up when replacing a head and are quicker to tune when you do need to retune on a gig because you can tighten one or two lugs without it affecting others as the flex in the rim can manipulated if you know how to. However triple flanged rims tend to go out of tune quicker through handing, temperature changes etc. It depends on where you want to spend your time. Do you want to spend time tweaking and tuning at home before the gig and then have nothing to do at the gig OR do you spend less time at home tuning pre gig and a little bit in between sets or songs at the gig. I have two gigging kits, one has die cast rims the other has triple flanged rims... I use the die cast for major shows where I can't get access to the kit to tune (like theatre shows or noisy venues where tuning is hard with back ground noise.) Triple flanged are cool for rushing to the gig after work or sudden sit in gigs, where I can tune / re tune easily between sets because I didn't get time to tune properly before the show. Thanks for the video.
Gary McDonald I tune my kit at the venue every time just because different rooms can create different sounds. Plus the changes in temperature/humidity can affect the way the heads sound.
Thanks for doing all the work and posting this video... Very helpful!
Great video man. It's refreshing when a comparison video uses good mics and editing. Well done.
@mitchmitchells ...it was the diecast hoop on the reso side in all examples (as I didn't have a flanged one for the reso side). You can change the batter side only - it will have more impact on the sound than the reso side - especially for the rimshots! Just want to mention that the subtle changes here in this video may be a result from using the Genera HD Dry as batter head - a G1 or Ambassador would reveal the differences much more.
Never thought hoops could make so much difference. Holy shit!
Come on folks - I was urged recently to delete several comments here because it was not a discussion going on there but throwing bad words to each other. If this doesn't stop I'm forced to block people from commenting here or shut down the discussion at all.
They sound different, but I'm not sure I would say one is better than the other. If I had to choose though, I would choose die cast, because I think they look badass.
thanks for the comparison man. what hoop did you have on the bottom in both cases? im thinkin of changing to die cast but not sure if u can just change the top or if you have to do both
just played on one of those sonor artist series snares... best snare i've ever heard..
when just hitting the center of the drum, I don't really notice a difference between the two. It wasn't until you did the cross stick stuff where I noticed the difference...but die cast seems to keep a very evened out tone to the drum, I noticed less of an extreme in tone change when playing in the center and then going to the outer edges. Which was the opposite in the case of the flanged hoop...does that fall in line as to what the established/known differences are?
Well done! Thanks for the comparison.
That,s a great demo..good to see both have different flavours...Stuart Copeland used a diecast hoop on top of his pearl cob for a dryer sound.. to my ears the diecast is crackier..and the flanged more open sound. fantastic!!!!
great vid. can i find a 13" die-cast hoop to put on a benny greb sig sonor snare?
Good demo! After reading some comments i will trie to ventilate my Dutch view on it:).
At first, please figure out what sound you're looking for. In most cases you'll find the die-cast hoops are worth trying because of the more overtones lacking and more focussed (tied if you like) sound. Also the blurred spectrum of flanged looses you on volume.
When you are just like me deleting unwanted rings and humble in your drum, this is one of the first things you'll have to do. Other things i did is nylon washers between rods and hoops and Evans clear controlled tom resoheads and EC2 frosted batterheads. In my case my 10"racktom resohead was disturbing my snaresound so i went looking for things and i found it...
Oh, my drumkit is miked-up with Beyerdynamic condenser microphones so i notice every bleeding and rings en buzzthings...
I can imagine that a jazzdrummer prefers flanged above die-cast but then a rockdrummer loves the die-cast.
Reality... and lets be honest... most of this crap doesn't matter once you've to 2 guitarist, bass player and vocalist whaling over top of it. There's also mic selection, eq, fx, crowd noise, etc...
The most important factor is who is hitting it.
But... I am glad you posted it... because I've always wondered if there was a difference. Now I know... not much.
Thank you... I've grown tired of listening to musicians who point out these ridiculously minute details as "golden" or "magical"...
If you LIKE it, buy it... otherwise its a waste of money.
People might not know WHY they like your sound, but these details do add up.
You are wrong witzerdog. It does matter.
If you're talking about 95% of the shit music out there now, you're right, it doesn't matter. Most drummers I've had to deal with since the 90 have their kits covered in tape and play at one of two volumes - like guitar players who have their quiet clean tone and their overdrive at the click of a pedal - night and day.
I mean, if we're talking about a $12k 1962 SG but you're playing it through a JCM 800, cranked and through a few pedals, of course no one is going to be able to tell difference between that and some $600 Epiphone SG you just pulled off the wall from Guitar Center. But if you're dealing with players who understand dynamics and are creating music that takes advantage of that sort of nuance, it makes *all* the difference.
Granted, this video doesn't do the best job of demonstrating the difference between these two (largely due to the recording) hoops absolutely *can* make a massive difference in drum tone.
The flanged sounded more like Bonhams snare if your trying for that sound. The old inside dampener was the best for custom sound.
I think it depends on your style of playing. I tried die cast hoops and found them to be perfect for powerful rock style playing. However, I play lighter jazz in small venues and the flanged hoops give me the sound I want. I replaced my factory 1.6mm hoops with Gibraltar 2.3mm Power Hoops for better head control while still giving me the unstifled sound I want.
Die Cast ROCKS!!!
The difference between die-cast and flanged hoops are much more obvious on wood snares.
thanks for the video, I'm late to the party by 6 years! Anyway just wanted to share my story. I love Die-Cast hoops I have Gretsch Drums a Stewart Copeland Snare and a Tama SLP 13"x7" snare which have Die Cast hoops (love the drums love them!) and I have a Pork Pie Pork rub finish 6.5 snare that I thought I would try putting a die cast hoop on replacing the triple flanged...I changed it back and forth 3x! and I just didn't like how it sounded on that drum plus the lugs were slightly off and the threads were real tight, so it's a preference for certain drums I guess. My next venture ha!.... I ordered an 8 hole Die-Cast hoop for my 14" Remo Roto Tom not sure how that will work but like I said I love Die-Cast hoops but sometimes it just doesn't work out right, I'm hoping I love the Roto even more than I do now but it's an experiment which is fun!
I chose die cast for durability. I rim shot a lot and with oak sticks, you’ll bend a flange batter hoop in a month.
Plus the side stick sounds great.
The more comparison videos I watch, the less I want die-cast hoops 🤨
Idk idk idk i keep wanting to hear the difference but if i dont look i can't hear it idk i might be def
If my observations are correct, those die cast hoops are not of the German Sonor origin, but of perhaps their Chinese factory offerings?
I don't know, they came from factory with the drum. Obviously they are not as bulky as some of the 80's Sonor designs. The rimshots were painstaking loud with these on, the whole drum was loud as hell... She left the house after some years.
OSDrum Some Sonor Chinese made snare drums had those type on them - killer drums regardless - but get your hands on them big chunky german hoops. Better have some money left over because the sound will shatter all the windows in your house! Haha
That snare was an Artist Model made in Germany. But I don't care, the drum is sold long ago!
Good video, OSDrum. It actually confirms my suspicions: flanged hoops allow for a bit more tonality, which - to my ears - translates to more presence in the mix. It's a totally subjective matter of taste, of course; for me, flanged = better. Well done, man - this should have been done long ago. Gonna do one on toms?
wow, that explains a lot.
Thanks!
Flanged hoops make you play a little faster?:)
I think this effect needs some thorough investigation. :-)
Don't know if it's a poor tuning mistake, but the flanged hoops seem like they got nasty over tones.
@Brok3nCarlos ...why not ask Sonor directly - they are open to questions like this and they probably have what you search for...
The difference would be bigger, if the reso side would change too. I like diecast on metal snares and triple flanged or s-hoop on my wood snares.
What size hoops? 2.3? 1.6?
The flanged hoop was 1.6 mm.
Die casts ring like a bell
Pearl Super Hoops
Id take that beautiful sonor snare and u guys keep tha hoops
I actually prefer the Flanged sound
Die cast are always better!
Imagine an S-hoop?
I have sold this drum long ago! I use an S-Hoop on my DW 6.5*14 Maple Snare and love it for the sound and feel! The perfect protection for the edge on the batter side is a nice extra feature.
Duuude one of my buddies had an S-hoop in his snare and sounded soooooo crisp and beautiful! I now want to invest in the s-hoops!!! No moongel needed either!
Flange sounded better to me
Sounds like you’re gating the audio
As mentioned in the description: no FX, no EQ, no dynamics. Just the raw signal from the mics…
Nice video, haven't seen much focus on the rims even though it is a huge difference - I totally favor die-cast. However, you should practice your buzz and single stroke - rolls ;)
Det, vi plejer at kalde "ryk-hvirvler"! God plads ti forbedring :-D
bello mi piace suono del rullo squillante
There is no great difference in sound to make it worth buying die cast hoops.
Not that great difference. We'll tuned snare will provide a great sound
Both sound the same lol
Sounds the same