Saluda Grade - The Final Months of America’s Steepest Mainline Route
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ต.ค. 2023
- In this video, C. Vision Productions takes you to Norfolk Southern’s famous Saluda Grade in North Carolina, to view trains operating over the astonishing four to five percent grades between Saluda and Melrose. This section of track had the distinction of being the steepest standard-gauge mainline railroad grade in the United States. Trains battled Saluda for 123 years, from 1878 until 2001. Today, the portion of track over the Saluda Grade sits in disuse. Formerly operated by the Southern Railway, this was Norfolk Southern’s “W Line”, between Asheville, North Carolina, and Columbia, South Carolina, via Spartanburg. Videographer Dan Hadley visited Saluda during the final years of operations over this historic stretch of track, allowing you to see what the trains and physical plant looked like shortly before train traffic ceased.
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As a railfan I can't help but to feel sad at the loss of so much railroad history in Western North Carolina since I was a kid. We have lost Saluda, Thermal Belt, Hendersonville to Brevard and part of the Carolina and Northwest just to name a few I know of. At least they have been converted to rail trails and not totally erased.
You speak the truth my Friend. I'm 47 years old, lived in WNC(Edneyville) all my life. I was always found trackside at Melrose, Saluda, Hendersonville, etc. to watch Southern Railway and NS move these trains like artists. Now, it's almost all gone. Wonderful memories!
It’s hard to see so many lines lost. All we can do is try to keep the memory of these routes alive through photos and video. Preserving the right-of-ways by converting them into trails is always a plus. Old railroad grades make beautiful trails. Thank you for the comment.
Noted guys. Just too dicey a run.
@@grandcrappy what do you mean too dicey of a run?
@@CVisionProductions1 rail trails are a scam honestly
Those railroaders had nerves of steel.... on a legendary feat of engineering! WOW!
It was incredibly impressive just to see the track profile when visiting the grade. Standing in downtown Saluda, it appeared that the tracks dropped off the face of the earth!
Seeing those Dash 8 locomotives kind of miss them in service now that they’re all retired by this point in the 21st-century
NS had quite the impressive collection of locomotives back then! Their fleet has become rather homogeneous today. Thank you for the comment.
Those are standard cab Dash-9s (C40-9), nicknamed "Top Hat", they along with the first order of brazilian BB40-9M's were the only Dash-9 models built with "spartan" cabs.
Nice to see an old B30-7A in there too. I alway thought they were funny looking locomotives, but in a nice way. I definitely have a soft spot for high hoods. As always, a great video - thanks for posting!
Thank you very much!!! And, yes. Those high hoods were absolutely awesome. We appreciate the comment.
heck yeah 3:00
I adore the SD40-2 High Hood
One day they will wish the tracks were still their.
There is always that possibility, yes. NS wanted nothing to do with that grade, however. Thank you for watching.
No, no they won’t. And it’s *there
@@SantaFe5811ohhh grammahhh poleese
*There
Will I be a SOB.@@liammetzger534
Beautiful Nathan K5 horn
Yes, sir! NS had some nice ones, for sure.
We used to set and watch the trains cross the mountain every day, really miss it .
It’s tough to lose something like this. We absolutely miss Saluda. It’s very unfortunate that traffic around Asheville has dropped so significantly. Anyway, thank you for watching and for your comment.
There used to be special engineers to take the trains down the mountain like harbor captains in ships.
That is correct. The Road Foreman of Engines would be the designated employee to fulfill that role. Thank you for the comment.
Melvin Warren was the master of that hill for years@@CVisionProductions1
Saluda Grade was even more severe than Tennessee Pass in Colorado! I can imagine a triple header on Saluda Grade!
Oh, yes! Saluda was significantly steeper than Tennessee Pass. We can only imagine what Saluda was like in the steam days. Especially in the fall when leaves covered the rails! Thank you for the comment, MJ.
Lived in spartanburg and used to visit Hayne yard...spent many evenings with "Walt" the 2nd trick refueler sander in late 80s early 90s. Lol..got to point where he had me move the units shoving forward on fuel racks. Loved the old High nose 3500 and 3900 GE uboats. Was able to talk my way in and Snagged a ride on 3279 HN Sd40-2 to Saluda as talked to few of the line crews..got off in Saluda on first triple up hill, and wife met me there..pretty awesome and memorable day.
Wow! Those are awesome stories! Back when railroading was far more open to railfans “sharing” the property. Good stuff. Thank you for watching the video.
@@CVisionProductions1 yes..totally different today for railfan "foamers". Used to spend evenings in spartanburg CSX yard office ( ex clinchfield terminus in spartanburg)...array of clinchfield..family lines..b&o..GE ugly duckling CQBs were actually pretty frequent there. Lot of evenings wife and kids just train watching...got to ride into spartanburg from Ora on new wife nose Dash-8 on one of the evenings..they were sitting in ora siding waiting for south bound coal drag. Or riding with switcher crew in spartanburg on CSX south of town through tunnel under NS main.. now all fenced off and now trespassing...not sure any of this possible for anyone anymore.
It’s nice that you were able to do that when you did. In the era of inward-facing cameras and increased supervision, it’s probably not possible on any of the larger railroads today.
So nice seeing train cars without graffiti all over them.
My idea:
License spray paint..
Customer must display a laminated card at paint store proving he paid say, $20 at DMV for the card...At that cost, at least it would deter teens and younger to go get the card which would be awarded to 18 and above..Older people needing sprays will not likely be using it for graffitti purposes..Fee goes to clean up in towns.
It would not be 100% effective but might cut it way way down.. Tell a friend....
I remember watching trains around this time. The graffiti had already started. Just not out in Appalachia yet. I grew up seeing cars with graffiti so I never really minded it. Actually some of the tags looked cool. But then I remember going on a vacation in California and seeing UP and BNSF engines with graffiti on them. On the east coast it was very rare to see spraypaint on engines but in Cali it’s quite common. That bothered me.
I love those NS dash 8 and C40-9 also there was some extremely old tanks at the end of the train most likely the date back to the steam era!
We’re a fan of those standard cab GEs as well. Really neat locomotives. And yes, those were some very old tanks! Thank you for the comment.
I've still got a Southern timetable with this mainline in it. The special instructions within for traversing that 5-6 mile stretch of track alone takes up seven whole pages. I hate that it's now gone, but I'm also surprised it lasted as long as it did.
Awesome video C Vision!!! Thanks for posting.
Thank you so much!!! And you’re very welcome. We appreciate you watching the video.
Growing up in Spartanburg S.C in the 60’s and having a dad who worked for Southern Railway I was familiar with Saluda.
That would have been an incredible era to grow up in. The Southern was a fascinating railroad. We are certain that your father had some great stories to tell. Thank you for watching the video, and also for sharing a little bit of your history.
I rode the Piedmont, the Royal Palm, the Carolina Special, and of course the Southern Crescent.
What great journeys those must have been. You’re quite lucky to have ridden those trains. Long live the Southern!
Fantastic coverage! Those MW tanks are incredible…
Thank you very much!!! We thought those tanks were pretty awesome as well…
A few years ago , while reading a railway modeling magazine, an article about Saluda appeared. It was my inspitation to to get started in railway modeling and to this day I enjoy this type of reports and videos. Thank you very much. Greetings from Chile.
Thank you so much, Carlos! Saluda is absolutely fascinating. We can see how it became your inspiration for model railroading. We appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment. Greetings from the C. Vision Studios!
I run up and back down that hill every week in a truck (I take tires from Michelin in Greenville to Ford in Louisville and bring rubber back to Michelin) and that hill is no joke. You need to have your ducks in a row just hauling 45k lbs down the hill, couldn’t imagine taking whole train up or down that grade. 😳
We appreciate you sharing that! It sounds like you have an interesting and challenging run. Those mountains certainly present a formidable obstacle to all modes of land transportation.
Happy to see old footage of standard cab Dash 9s! They were exclusive to NS, and sadly none were saved from being rebuilt.
And now, Dash 9s on NS have slowly been decreasing in numbers thanks to the AC44C6M rebuilds. I have grown to like them just as much as their Dash 9 predecessors.
Those C40-9s were neat units. They had a great design. Norfolk Southern’s “motive power evolution” over the past few years has been fascinating. Thank you for the comment, Alik! We appreciate you watching.
We see the DC to AC Dash 9's on run through grain trains, oddly the NS variants are the best put together in my opinion.
We had a few standard cab Dash 9's, much easier to get in and out of.
This is totally awesome to watch
Thank you so much, Michael! We’re happy that you enjoyed the video.
I wish instead of the line being leased off to the rails to trails people it could of been used for some sort of tourist railroad. Would of been a great idea if done properly.
A tourist operation based in Saluda could have been very popular with railroad enthusiasts. Operating over the grade itself may have been an issue, however. This is just speculation, but the insurance costs for a railroad like that may have been prohibitive. Thank you for watching, and for your comment.
@@CVisionProductions1 I was about to post exactly the same speculation about prohibitive insurance costs.
@beeble2003 Would love to see a 2023 quote for that policy!
@@beeble2003 a tourest railroad would cost a LOT to make especially with the steepness of the grade. I think it would be a lot of effort to put a tourest operation on the grade and get the specialized crews for the operations. But if it could of been done it would of been great. You never know, theres always that super small chance.
@@milepost26.69 It's _running_ the railroad that would be prohibitively expensive. If a train ran away, there's a very high chance that passengers and crew would die, and the railroad would be 100% liable for that. A runaway is relatively likely, since the crews would be relatively inexperienced -- even if they hired ex-NS engineers who worked the route, none of them has driven a train up or down that grade in 20 years. Because of the relatively high likelihood of catastrophic accidents, the railroad would need to pay an absolute fortune in insurance premiums. Probably so much that the idea is completely impossible from a financial point of view.
I had seen photos of the line in use during the steam era the Southern had two 2-10-2s on the front and on the back of the train going uphill.
That sounds right. They needed plenty of power to conquer this grade! Thank you for sharing that with us. We appreciate you watching.
Great Video!
Thank you very much! We appreciate you taking the time to watch it.
Great video of the old Saluda Grade. Soon to become a Rail Trail. Those were some very old tank cars.
Thank you kindly! And yes, those tank cars were ancient. They were neat to see in service. We appreciate the comment.
Love those old tanks. I know around that same era there were some that were filled at Camp Croft in Spartanburg and brought to Hayne Yard to be used for fuel for locomotives. I wonder if these are being sent to Asheville for the same purpose? They were on both the up and downgrade trains.
Very interesting, Allen. That very well could be what they were used for. Although, they were marked maintenance of way. We appreciate that information. Looks like there’s more to research! Thank you for the comment.
Great video!!!
Thank you very much! We’re happy to hear that you enjoyed it. More on the way.
Hi very well explained thank you
You’re welcome. We’re glad that you found the explanation to be informative.
Great video! As a rail fan I am saddened to here that they are going rip up the tracks soon. But it’s for a good cause. I love your content and I hope you keep doing it. ❤
Thank you so much!!! We appreciate your support. We hope to continue creating these videos well into the future.
@@CVisionProductions1 That’s great! And your welcome 👍.
Unfortunately pulling up the rails is not a good cause, once pulled up, they will never be replaced
Very Nice Clips
Thank you very much, AMP Productions!
What an amazing video
Thank you so much! We appreciate you taking the time to watch the video. It’s always nice to receive friendly comments like yours.
@@CVisionProductions1
My pleasure, us rail fans have to stick together. The grade is part of our American 🇺🇸 history brother
It absolutely is. Thanks again!
Imagine the PSR monsters of today going over this line! 😳 would be crazy to see!
I was, unfortunately, only about 4 years old when NS quit using the grade. Wish I could've seen it in action!
Also, this was a fantastic video!
Thank you very much! We’re glad to hear that you enjoyed the video. Operating a 10,000 foot monster over this route would have been an extreme challenge! The idea of NS doing that is interesting to contemplate.
They would probably have a lot of helpers or split the trains into two.
It would have been a trip! Like they might had to cut down tonnage, or basically just have like 6-8 locomotives on a 120 car train! Well PSR would have probably moved traffic to Atlanta or Roanoke, making the line see much less activity if it didn’t close in 2001, or abandoned in like 2020.
Nice video 📹
Thank you, Rich! We appreciate you watching.
Cool!
We’re glad that you enjoyed it! Thank you very much.
Sadly
Saluda Grade is all now Abandoned and NS sold Saluda Grade to the Saluda Grade Rail Trail Group that is Going to Remove the Rails and Replace it with a Hiking/Biking Trail
Shame on Norfolk Southern
PSR has hurt the Railroad Industry
Awesome Footage of the long Gone Saluda Grade
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥
Thank you very much, Alex! And yes, Saluda is facing a sad end. It’s too bad that they couldn’t keep the line operating in some capacity. At least the right-of-way will be preserved for public use. It will undoubtedly be a very popular trail.
Love seeing the classic standard cabs but more than that the awesome k5la that NS used to have instead of the awful sounding k5hl of today
We’re happy that you enjoyed seeing what NS had to offer back in those days. Classic stuff, for sure! Thank you for watching and commenting.
Nice to see 8-40c and B23-7 standard cabs instead of the monstrosities we have now days
We’re glad that you enjoyed seeing the older power. We prefer those classic standard cab units as well. Thank you for watching!
Actually, the units were that of C40-9 standard cabs and a B30-7 high hood locomotive.
@@daniellucas6573 living in the UK, they all looked familiar, still nice to see though
I had no idea those old tankers were still used in MOW service as late as 2001. What were they used to transport?
We’re not sure what they were used for, but it certainly was neat to see them! Hopefully someone else will chime in with additional information. Thank you for watching and commenting.
They're carrying hazmat placards for flammable liquids -- video resolution's too low to read the numerical code. But maybe fuel for MOW vehicles?
@beeble2003 Ahhhh, very well could be. Thank you!
Were any saved
Wow old is style 20th century dome top tanker cars that is very interesting that they were used until the 21st century
This channel is was too underrated for a railfan channel
We appreciate that! We’re just happy that people like you are enjoying the videos. That’s what matters to us. Thank you for watching.
Sure is sad to see the line over Saluda Grade no longer used.
We agree, Andrew. It was a very useful shortcut for traffic between Asheville and Spartanburg. Unfortunately, Norfolk Southern didn’t have enough traffic to justify the continued operation of Saluda. From the way it sounds, they were looking for any reason to end operations over that grade to reduce risk. And they did exactly that in December of 2001.
It's in the process of being turned into a trail
we salute saluda!!
Yes we do! It was quite the impressive piece of railroad. Thank you very much for watching.
Sad to see it disappearing.😢😢
It really is unfortunate that Saluda has reached the end. Hopefully there will be a nice trail that comes out of this. Exploring the old right-of-way on a well-maintained trail wouldn’t be that bad. Thank you for the comment.
@CVisionProductions1 You're welcome. I live where the old Pennsy used to run. It is a trail now but I miss seeing the trains.☹️
Excellent video. You didn't show that they had to chop up the train into segments to do the grade, and take one segment up at a time; Was this a correct datum ? I notice that the backs of the trains didn't have FRED (Flashing Rear End Device); is that because only one of the segments had the FRED ? Aarre Peltomaa of Mississauga, Ontario
First of all, thank you very much! As for the trains themselves, believe it or not, they were complete. But you are correct, Norfolk Southern often split upbound trains into sections to obviate the use of helpers. Regarding rear end devices, both trains featured in the video were so equipped. We appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment.
What's the new route since that line has been shut down? Thxs
Hello, George. From information posted shortly after the shutdown, it looks like general freight traffic was rerouted via Salisbury and the S-Line. Coal traffic that formerly operated over Saluda stayed to the east, and didn’t come anywhere near Asheville. If anyone has any corrections or additional information, please feel free to share it.
Amazing how fast railroads go to crap once they stop being used.
That’s for sure! Nature and the elements really take their toll on unused track, equipment, and structures. We appreciate you bringing that up, considering the current condition of the territory featured in this video.
Will this be a video available for purchase?
Hello, Ryan. This is the complete video. There isn’t enough footage for a full DVD, but we’ll see what happens in the future. It could be combined with something else. Thank you for asking.
So cool!!!
Thanks, Drayton!
How busy was this line before it closed?
Saluda hosted around four trains per day before its closure in 2001. Thank you for watching.
anyone know how many trains a day would come through saluda ?
Our estimate was around four trains per day. That number would have varied over time. Thank you for watching.
When was this, if you mind me asking
Well, we don’t have an exact date for you. The newest locomotive in the video was built in May of 1998, and Saluda closed in December of 2001. This was later than 1998, so it would be somewhere in the 1999-2001 timeframe. We appreciate the question.
Not bad at 6:32 you see the truck and 2 cars run across the tracks with the red warning lights flashing.
At least everybody else was smart enough to stop.
Stop, look, and listen. Words to live by. Thank you for watching the video.
What is a 5% grade in British terms where 1 in 10 or 1 in 30 grades are discussed?
Hello, John. The formula is as follows. The “percentage” figure is the number of feet gained (or lost) in elevation per 100 feet traveled. So, in this case, a five percent grade would mean that for every 100 feet traveled forward, the elevation has changed five feet. Hopefully that explains it! Thank you for watching the video.
Helpful but please give me the 5% in the British system. In Australia we use that British system, such as 1 in 100 or, say, 1 in 33 to explain the fall or rise in the grade, I was just trying to visualize that grade using the system I have outlined.
@@CVisionProductions1
We believe that a 5% grade would be expressed as “1 in 20” using your system. Please let us know if you have any further questions. We’re always happy to answer them.
What is a retainer...that they set?
Every car has a retainer valve on it so they can be set for step grades
There are 3 positions for a retainer valve
@@ThomasEKouri thanks
Hello, Dave. As Thomas mentioned, retainers are generally used for the descent down steep grades and have three positions. “EX” (Direct Exhaust), which is the normal direct release position. This is the position that the valve should be in for normal operation. “SD” (Slow Direct), which releases the brakes slowly, to allow time for the train’s brake system to be recharged for another application of the brakes. And finally, “HP” (High Pressure Retain). The high pressure position keeps the brakes applied on those cars, even when the engineer releases the train brakes. Some older cars had a four-position retaining valve that included the “LP” (Low Pressure) position. Retainers are set or “turned up” manually. As in, someone has to go back to the cars themselves to change the valve position. Retainers allow the train brakes to be released without causing a runaway down a steep grade. It also can prevent a downgrade stall if the engineer has too much air set. He can release his brakes, wait for the brake pipe to recharge, then make another application that better suits his needs. All the while, the cars with retainers set help to keep the train’s speed under control. Hopefully that covers it!
@@CVisionProductions1 thanks...my upstanding is...that the valve...should retain air at all time...untill the engineer releases it...
I wish saluda will see train traffic again but unfortunately it will never happen😥
Yes, unfortunately you’re right about that, Alex. There’s no hope for rail traffic to return to Saluda. It was an impressive piece of railroad. Hopefully it can be enjoyed as a recreation trail in the future. Thank you for watching the video.
I live by the Saluda river.
Very cool! That are is quite beautiful. Thank you for watching the video.
Fun Fact: I think if you go to one of the signals near Saluda, NC, one of the track signals are still working, and you can see a faint red light.
Hmmmmm, interesting. We’ll have to look into that. Could it be a similar situation to what has occurred on the Tennessee Pass line? Some of those signals have their backs open, allowing sunlight to shine through and “illuminate” the signals. Could that be what is happening near Saluda?
@@CVisionProductions1 idk, i saw a video of someone at saluda and the signal was still on.
Roger that. Thank you for letting us know. We’ll have to do a little investigating.
Just waiting for the ghost train ...
Looks like they are going to turn that section into a "Rails to Trails" Route. To bad the town of Saluda did not start in 2001 to exploit this as a tourism attraction. Would have brought in much $$$$. Saluda now is pretty sad.
Yes. That’s what we saw too. It’ll make for a beautiful trail. But it’s a shame that nothing else could be done to save the railroad. Either for a tourist operation, or for freight. That five percent grade was just too much. Thank you for the comment.
Both the locomotives and the tracks are gone
A lot has changed since this video was captured! Thank you for watching.
I thought it was shut down in 2006...🤔
It was. Such a shame. The whole line has had severe damage from rock slides and washouts.. This was a marvel and I wish they would put it back in service.
@ocsrc I kinda wish they would too. Would be a good place to put the dynamics on AC power to the ultimate test in my eyes.
Hello there. Every piece of information that we saw showed Saluda was shut down in December of 2001. If there is more to the story, we’d be interested in knowing.
@@CVisionProductions1 mainline trains quit going over the grade in 2001, local trains such as P-89 and a think one or two others quit going over the grade in 2003, i should know i remember it pretty well even though i was a kid, i remembered being told about the last train to go over Saluda was summer or fall of 2003 when the chip yard in Landrum no longer wanted to do business with NS so after that the line fully close, the only "traffic it would see would be the rare highrail truck, or a track geometry train until the washout got to bad for them to safely traverse the track.
@MASTERCHIEF1062 Interesting. Thank you for the information! Maybe someone can update the Wikipedia page on Saluda to reflect that piece of history, if it is indeed true. Having the full story out there is very important.
I'd build a new line with a less steep grade. This might need some tunnels.
That would definitely be a mighty undertaking. A 10-mile tunnel under Saluda just might do the trick! With unlimited resources, it could be a possibility ;) Thank you for the comment. It gave us plenty to think about.
They can stick that rail trail
It’s too bad that they no longer have any use for the line. We miss the days of trains battling that historic grade. Thank you for watching.
I have a NS c40-9 standard cab in HO scale!
Very cool! They were neat engines.
5% grade is why they no longer use this route...
Correct. Although the NS had a stellar safety record on Saluda, the risks were very well known. The railroad’s decision to close the line as a through route was understandable.
NS is such a garbage company(CORPORATELY); buy up property and then kill it, poorly maintain any line trackage they own or operate and poorly maintain the equipment they still have... Soon they'll go the ways of conrail and then get bought up or absorbed by CN, UP or BNSF at this rate.
I Commend The Trainmen from all walks however from NS or any company that ran this line ANY TIME; MAD RESPECT.
Such a shame; a waste of trackage and history.
Thank you, Shawn. It really was impressive what these railroaders accomplished, day in and day out. Saluda truly was the “Mountain of Challenge”. We appreciate you watching the video.
It completely baffles me how an entire industry is allowed to be subjected to vandalism. It has totally ruined my enjoyment and enthusiasm when a train passes by. I find it pathetic. Long live Saludia and her grand memory
When railcars set in any given place for so long, what do you expect??
Saluda was an impressive piece of railroad, that’s for sure. We hope this video can help keep the memory of Saluda Grade alive, even in a small way. Thank you for watching.
Cheers, NC
Thank you for watching! Greetings from Minnesota.
@@CVisionProductions1 Howdy from Texas. Good stuff. Enjoy your content. Appreciate the warm greetings.
You’re very welcome! We appreciate hearing that you’re enjoying our videos.