Thanks Scott and Nate. My family history tracks close with the Comanche. My great-grandmother, Annie (Hebert) Gomez was just a teenager when she was sent to Oklahoma from Minnesota to serve on a Mennonite mission at Post Oak, near Quanah's "Star House." She lived there for the rest of her life, almost 80 years, working with the Comanche. She delivered hundreds of Comanche babies over multiple generations. When we buried her eldest daughter, my grandmother, Josephine Magdalena (Gomez) Knox, in the mission cemetery in 2014, my uncle asked the fairly large contingent of Comanche in attendance, how many of them had been assisted in birth by Annie Gomez. Everyone over about 40 raised their hand. Several of the women said that Grandma Gomez had delivered them and delivered their children, and at least one woman said she had delivered her, her children, and all of her grandchildren as well. My grandmother was 100 when she died in 2014, and was sharp as a tack. I wrote several emails to academics encouraging them to send some grad students out to record her memories, but sadly never got any response. Grandma Gomez and Quanah's daughter, Ms. Birdsong, were good friends, and the family rented a house and fields from her. By the way: The Texans won the Battle of San Jacinto, so it's pronounced San-djah-sent-a. If Santa Anna had won, then it would be pronounced San Hahs-seen-toe. Blessings.
It always makes me happy to see people talking about this story. Quanah Parker Cynthia Ann Parker and i are all directly descendant of Elder John Parker who established the Fort Parker where Cynthia Ann was abducted, and I grew up listening to stories about them.
I read all this book and I loved it!!!! Lots of details on the Comanches story and settlers of the American west. Fabulous book!!!! A must reading !!!!
I would also recommend Dee Brown's Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee. Wounded Knee did not happen in a vacuum. It was preceded by numerous injustices, most notably the Sand Creek Massacre. Also, fascinating is his book Hear That Lonesome Whistle Blow, the story of building railroads throughout the Midwest. Finally, Maria Sandoz's Crazy Horse is a fascinating insight into a enigmatic warrior. And, for an interesting read try the diary of Lewis and Clark's expedition. Talk about tough and resourceful men.
A few observations from the book. Like Scott observed, the Comanche did weaponize the horse. Once mounted, they became a formidable unit. Interestingly, it was the Rangers who learned the first rule of Indian fighting - Never Get Off Your Horse. A lesson learned by earlier generations of Rangers, then typically relearned at great cost by their successors. It was also the Comanche’s utility of the horse. Their ability to range such great distances was unknown to the anglos of the day. The author mentions how that someone sitting down to dinner in San Antonio on Friday evening was in mortal danger of a brutal death by Monday morning from a Comanche warrior simultaneously dancing around a fire from as far off as Oklahoma City. The author notes that the gap in civilizational development between the opposing sides spanned roughly four thousand years. I found that number interesting. Nate and Scott make the point about Quanah’s remarkable ability to not only adapt in difficult circumstances, but to thrive. Which, not to make too fine a point about it, Cynthia must’ve taught him from personal experience. Not only that, but as the book’s author notes, Cynthia made the four thousand year leap across civilizations not only once but twice. That is an incredibly interesting consideration to flesh out. And the span of conflict from the time of early years of the Texas Republic coinciding with Cynthia’s abduction until Quanah’s surrender was approximately forty years. I’d never appreciated the length of the ongoing clash, but also the coincidence that it ultimately centered around the one family.
oh ho! got a wide grin outa me this morning! like Scott, I lived and breathed "Indian" when I was a boy. (I'm 69) so I beat him by a few years. son-in-law now has another book that deals with Comanche Nation....."Comanche Empire" by Pekka Hamalainen; so everything on this podcast was like coming home for me. Great first review.....made intriguing enough to capture attention and new readers. well done fellas! Darrell
The Old Fort Parker Historical site is a few miles North of Groesbeck, Tx. The actual fort was rebuilt by the Civilian Conservation Corps in the 1930s as they were building the nearby Ft. Parker State Park. I had been to the old fort several times as a kid and somewhat knew the history surrounding Cynthia Ann and Quanna Parker but the book really brings the whole events into light.
The loop of the rope halter which went around the horses nose/muzzle may have been referred to as a 'Choke". from memory of spending time with my dad around horses & cattle.
Good work! I am enjoying this EC2 format and have now read several books mentioned by others in the comments and find them all very interesting. Thanks again Nate and Scott
Thank you for the review. You shared your perspectives well, while appreciating other perspectives. I have added Empire of the Summer Moon to my reading list. I enjoy your channels and videos. Thank you very much for the excellent content. I'd like to suggest the Hospital Construction channel to you both: Scott, I think you will appreciate and enjoy the logistics involved, Nate, I think you will enjoy and appreciate the photography and editing. Thanks, take care, be well!! ; -)
From a first book review you did great!!!! Loved to hear the account, saved the book on my Amazon wish list, I mean... Awesome episode all around! Thanks!
Great subject and great story telling..I will definitely buy the book and read. I would recommend in the future the book Crazy Horse & Custer by Stephen E. Ambrose. He tells the story of both leaders and how the lived parallel lives and clash at Little Big Horn. Ambrose is a great storyteller and delivered information I did not know about the native Americans at that time.
Fascinating review, and found the book in my local library today. Partway through, and am just blown away at the ... "lack" of governance in the bands of Comanche's, the food preferences and practices, and like those that came up against them, a complete "bogglement" of my mind in the rules of morality.... or lack thereof. Seems like it's based on... pleasure, entertainment, minimalist functionality... and that's it. It's what works, and I'm happy with it... Next! And perhaps it's my aging brain, but despite the "simplicity", there's a LOT of complexity here in the presentation of the dynamics of the time, the conflicts in lives, lifestyles, between other "bodies" (tribes, governments, settlers, hustlers, traders, etc), and the clash of rules as we accept them (governance) against a group of people who don't play by the same values/rules. Thank you for your review, and I'm continuing to dig in... I knew a SMALL portion of it (different tribe) as I have done research in the Dawes County, Nebraska area where my ancestor was a doctor in a small town (Crawford), situated 3 miles from Fort Robinson, a horse-based military establishment that was established to help "keep the peace" amongst Indians and white settlers, and... turning their heads when white settlers didn't honor the restrictions of settlement. It truly was a wild west. And people who were hardy (crazy) enough to tackle it have a great deal of respect from me for the constant dangers they were in with trying to make it on the land (often devoid of buffering components to shield from weather extremes) and the dangers of indians.
Well, I stopped the review midway and bought the book. I had already read her book about Stonewall Jackson, and decided I'd read this one; then come back for the rest of your review. Many thanks for the motivation! Keep doing good work - and bless you both! 🤠
On your endorsement I bought and read this book. An addicting read into the history of the American West. Like Nate my knowledge of the Comanche Nation was zero. A fabulous book that I can only endorse and have recommended to many since completing the read of what can only be described as a tomb.
I went from wanting to go right now to buy the book to not wanting to buy it and back and forth several times. I sat many an evening listening to my Dad's mother tell stories of her childhood growing up in a culture of what is being described in this book review. I think the "village" life was coming to an end by the time she was growing up but a lot of it was still like the old days from what I remember from her stories...
Terry C. Johnston also wrote several similar novels based on true events of the Bozeman trail in Montana & Wyoming as well as books about the mountain man. Good books but I cant read about the Native American conflicts anymore. It shook me to the core. Thanks for the review.
That battle you could not remember nate was the first or 2nd battle of adobe walls. The guy leading the troops was kit carson. Its covered from his perspective in blood and thunder.
In the novel "Dances with Wolves", the tribe IS COMANCHE. The characters of Ten Bears and Kicking Bird were actually real life Comanche and Kiowa chiefs.
I grew up in walking distance of the old Comanche base, Palo Duro Canyon. I have to really admire the Comanche warriors. Certainly, my ancestors that lived near Dallas 175 years ago had no enthusiasm for Comanche. While I am most sympathetic with the natives, they definitely drew their share of blood during colonization of Texas. The natives could be cruel beyond your imagination. Thanks for the review. Now, wanting to go back and reread.
I'm a big fan of Ridley and his writing style. I was gifted Empire of the Summer Moon not too long ago and haven't opened it yet. I will do so tonight - thank you!
Fascinating! I’ll definitely look for this book and Joe Rogans interview with the author. I grew up in the days when ‘Cowboys and Indians’ was probably the most popular game we played as boys. My grandfather had shelves full of Louis L’amour books and loved to spin yarns of the old cowboy days, as told to him by his father including an alleged [friendly] encounter with the infamous James Gang back in Kansas. And yes, I’m aware that there’s about as many family Jesse James tales as there where attendees to the Woodstock Festival but...we like to believe it’s true and we pass the stories on to our yungins as well. Not to get political but I thought it was interesting that you brought up the fact that the Comanche ‘acquired’ lands from other tribes, that ‘acquired’ it from tribes before them and so-on and so-on. But the anglos that eventually ‘acquired’ the land to the present day are looked at as the bad guys. When all they did was the same thing their predecessors had done before them. Oh well, I guess that’s an argument for another day. 🤷♂️
Some of my ancestors were Chickasaw, and the Comanche raided them mercilessly in Oklahoma. When scouts spotted their horse dust, everyone had to go hide in the woods while they looted and killed anyone unlucky enough to still be around.
A great book. I enjoyed listening to your discussion. One of my favorite parts of the book is when the buffalo hunters are attacked in Colorado in the saloon and teach the Comanche a hard lesson about .54 caliber rifles that can shoot accurately a long distance. The entire book is excellent and deserves all the accolades it has received. I really enjoyed it and listening to you two react to it.. Most excellent.
Great topic especially given what is currently happening. Our local tribes are Mohawk, Sioux and Shawnee and I have always found them amazing people. I would research Tecumseh - a military genius and a philosopher way ahead of his time. Again love your book reviews and your unique perspectives. Keep up the good work.
You should check out the book “And Grandma Said...” by Tom Porter. He talks about many fascinating things about the Kaniehkehaka Rotinonshoni (Mohawk) (Iroquois) people.
I will be honest, I’m not a book reader really, it’s just not my thing, so I wasn’t going to watch this episode. But as usual, you captivated me and I’ve watched it all with great interest! Keep up the good work 👍
Here in Illinois the libraries are still closed because of the pandemic. I think I'll wait a while longer before buying the book outright. I have enjoyed the previous books you have reviewed. Thank you
Really enjoyed listening to the talk! If you were impressed/in doubt about shooting multiple arrows before the first one hit, check out a guy named Lars Anderson on TH-cam. He shows the lost ways of bow and arrow techniques! After watching that Im sure you'll agree that its possible! I'll be checking out your other videos!!
Thanks for the review - I've just ordered my copy. May I suggest Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond as a book worth reading and reviewing. It sounds like something you'd find fascinating.
I grew up in Kentucky and read everything I came across about the early days. Native Americans and settlers were matter of fact about living. Killing was part of life. To condemn any of the participants in the early movement of people's in this country means we all are connected. Violent and stomach turning acts happened often and by all sides. We must never take for granted the hard and costly lessons our forefathers/mothers have left us. History is truly written in blood. May we not repeat.
This is a great book. Another that is equally as good is The Heart of Everything That Is: The Untold Story of Red Cloud, an American Legend by Bob Drury and Tom Calvin. Highly recommended.
Now having read the book, and re-watched your review, I want to commend you both for a wonderful book selection, and for your wisdom and insights in your comments. The story of Ranald Mackenzie was also a fascinating story within the book and I don't want to spoil anything more about it. I have to say that (as you pointed out), there's nothing held back, no political correctness here. It's brutal, it's eye-opening, and ultimately, reverent in how it deals with the main people in this story, and the brutal dynamics at play in so many ways. Life is so messy, and it's easy to judge people by what they've done in the past, but it's not so simple. And there is redemption in how you choose to embrace and live life as best you can. I couldn't help but shed a tear for Quanah Parker, Cynthia Ann, his mother, and Ranald, the one who helped bring an end to the Comanche's... and befriended Quanah. (THAT is a remarkable story too!) It is probably a bias... but to read about J M Chivington and the way he massacred the indians.. I get that the indians did similar things... but I was saddened to see a white military officer descend to the level he had as well, and even more shocked to see how much of the public supported it, and who opposed it on moral terms, because it was truly a choice in two evils. Kit Carson's role and condemnation against Chivington was amazing to read. Kit's description, as well as those of the Rangers certainly opened my eyes about how truly tough you had to be to survive in the west. Street smart tough (without the streets!). This book is timely in that it provides some stark similarities and contrasts to the events of today with riots and media persuasion for shaping the perception by the people, and the resulting movements of the day. If anything, it shows that it takes courage to do the right thing, and in doing so, you're likely to pick up some scars that will define you for the rest of your life. I hope I can track down that interview of S.C. Gwynne with Joe Rogan (put it in the notes?). And I hope to make a stop in Cache, Oklahoma.. to pay tribute to Quanah... and his mother. AMAZING stories! Thank you gentlemen!
Summary: Don't mess with Texas! Looking forward to reading this book, gentlemen. Also the comment on 'unique and different people-tough, when those cultures collided, it is no surprise these things happened!' Thanks, men.
Really good podcast. I have been interested in Indian culture my whole life, being from Cherokee country. I recommend you to read about Sequoia. It's fascinating what he did. He developed the Cherokee syllabary after seeing and not understanding what written agreements even were between white men and Indians! (Spelling of syllabary is probably not correct) Regardless, he elevated himself as much as any native American and was still lied to by the American military and government as he was assisting them in their new world. His life is amazing. There is a museum in Tennessee that very definitively describes his life as a Cherokee. It is very well done. I went there recently and was surprised how little I knew about Sequoia and his accomplishments for his people.
Very enjoyably presented and nicely insightful, You probably have already read it but as a result of this review, you may enjoy Undaunted Courage by Stephen Ambrose. It is wonderfully researched and extremely enlightening as to Louis and Clark which you mentioned briefly in your review. Hope you keep up with these. Thank you both! I intend on reading this for sure.
Great review gents! If you appreciate Native American history, I would reccomend the book "Code Talker" by Chester Nez, which goes over the history of the Navajo and their contributions to the U.S during WW2.
You and Nate would enjoy Bill Bryson's book "A Brief History of nearly Everything"...It's a fascinating book and also ties in the importance of horses.
If you guys get a chance watch the( Dream Keeper )great mini series . I think you'll will love it .You sold me I'm dipping out early I want to read the book. You might have this in the section that I did not watch but announce the book before you review so we have a chance to read it before so we can have a online book club .
That was a great book. Read it sometime this past winter and then started picking up other books on Plains Indians. Definitely fascinating cultures Regarding the rapid arrow shooting. Check out Lars Andersen on TH-cam. The guy is incredibly fast AND incredibly accurate. The "Jerry Miculek" of archery if you will.
I played little league with Quanah, he was a bit of a ball hog but obviously he grew out of that eventually. The boys on our team always thought he was destined for greatness. Dude had an arm...used to throw out runners trying to go 1st to 3rd on singles all the time until word got out on him.
As I was looking for the interview you mention in the review, I came across this excerpt from it: th-cam.com/video/USHBsIjRaNI/w-d-xo.html in which S. C. Gwynne speaks about a possible movie about this... focused on the background and interaction of Quanah Parker and Ranald Mackenzie. I hope that comes about! The full interview is here: th-cam.com/video/Iq8Ss9yg6bo/w-d-xo.html
Ok I had to press stop when they said they knew nothing about native history but pocahontas and dances with wolves. I don't have the patience for some first time mindblown b.s.....I want experts
Try the Maya, the Inca, the Toltec, etc that those Jesuit/Catholic Spaniards destroyed almost entirely and dismissed their entire cultures and never tried to treat them as human. At least the Comanche proved that you can't always win through declaration of superiority and hauteur.
We went through a phase of that, but American Indians have, by and large, reclaimed the name Indian. It's still a bit touchy among some people, but mostly Anglo SJW types. As long as the person using the term is doing so respectfully, it's generally acceptable.
Ian Douglas I’m assuming your in Canada. Being native in Canada it’s hard to get mad at people for using the word “Indian”. Considering I have to carry around a government card that says. “Certificate of Indian status”. But still many people prefer to be called First Nations
Thanks Scott and Nate. My family history tracks close with the Comanche. My great-grandmother, Annie (Hebert) Gomez was just a teenager when she was sent to Oklahoma from Minnesota to serve on a Mennonite mission at Post Oak, near Quanah's "Star House." She lived there for the rest of her life, almost 80 years, working with the Comanche. She delivered hundreds of Comanche babies over multiple generations. When we buried her eldest daughter, my grandmother, Josephine Magdalena (Gomez) Knox, in the mission cemetery in 2014, my uncle asked the fairly large contingent of Comanche in attendance, how many of them had been assisted in birth by Annie Gomez. Everyone over about 40 raised their hand. Several of the women said that Grandma Gomez had delivered them and delivered their children, and at least one woman said she had delivered her, her children, and all of her grandchildren as well.
My grandmother was 100 when she died in 2014, and was sharp as a tack. I wrote several emails to academics encouraging them to send some grad students out to record her memories, but sadly never got any response. Grandma Gomez and Quanah's daughter, Ms. Birdsong, were good friends, and the family rented a house and fields from her.
By the way: The Texans won the Battle of San Jacinto, so it's pronounced San-djah-sent-a. If Santa Anna had won, then it would be pronounced San Hahs-seen-toe.
Blessings.
Jeff!!! You make a powerful contribution once again!!! Your family’s Matriarch Gramma Gomez was a giant!
It always makes me happy to see people talking about this story. Quanah Parker Cynthia Ann Parker and i are all directly descendant of Elder John Parker who established the Fort Parker where Cynthia Ann was abducted, and I grew up listening to stories about them.
That was my great grandfather
Along the same lines, one of my favorites is Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy. I would highly recommend.
I read all this book and I loved it!!!! Lots of details on the Comanches story and settlers of the American west. Fabulous book!!!! A must reading !!!!
I'm off to go and buy that book now. Brilliant video, keep up the good work.
I would also recommend Dee Brown's Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee. Wounded Knee did not happen in a vacuum. It was preceded by numerous injustices, most notably the Sand Creek Massacre. Also, fascinating is his book Hear That Lonesome Whistle Blow, the story of building railroads throughout the Midwest. Finally, Maria Sandoz's Crazy Horse is a fascinating insight into a enigmatic warrior. And, for an interesting read try the diary of Lewis and Clark's expedition. Talk about tough and resourceful men.
A few observations from the book. Like Scott observed, the Comanche did weaponize the horse. Once mounted, they became a formidable unit. Interestingly, it was the Rangers who learned the first rule of Indian fighting - Never Get Off Your Horse. A lesson learned by earlier generations of Rangers, then typically relearned at great cost by their successors.
It was also the Comanche’s utility of the horse. Their ability to range such great distances was unknown to the anglos of the day. The author mentions how that someone sitting down to dinner in San Antonio on Friday evening was in mortal danger of a brutal death by Monday morning from a Comanche warrior simultaneously dancing around a fire from as far off as Oklahoma City.
The author notes that the gap in civilizational development between the opposing sides spanned roughly four thousand years. I found that number interesting. Nate and Scott make the point about Quanah’s remarkable ability to not only adapt in difficult circumstances, but to thrive. Which, not to make too fine a point about it, Cynthia must’ve taught him from personal experience. Not only that, but as the book’s author notes, Cynthia made the four thousand year leap across civilizations not only once but twice. That is an incredibly interesting consideration to flesh out.
And the span of conflict from the time of early years of the Texas Republic coinciding with Cynthia’s abduction until Quanah’s surrender was approximately forty years. I’d never appreciated the length of the ongoing clash, but also the coincidence that it ultimately centered around the one family.
Why Texas is different from, any other American state.
oh ho! got a wide grin outa me this morning! like Scott, I lived and breathed "Indian" when I was a boy. (I'm 69) so I beat him by a few years. son-in-law now has another book that deals with Comanche Nation....."Comanche Empire" by Pekka Hamalainen; so everything on this podcast was like coming home for me. Great first review.....made intriguing enough to capture attention and new readers. well done fellas! Darrell
The Old Fort Parker Historical site is a few miles North of Groesbeck, Tx. The actual fort was rebuilt by the Civilian Conservation Corps in the 1930s as they were building the nearby Ft. Parker State Park. I had been to the old fort several times as a kid and somewhat knew the history surrounding Cynthia Ann and Quanna Parker but the book really brings the whole events into light.
The loop of the rope halter which went around the horses nose/muzzle may have been referred to as a 'Choke". from memory of spending time with my dad around horses & cattle.
Good work! I am enjoying this EC2 format and have now read several books mentioned by others in the comments and find them all very interesting. Thanks again Nate and Scott
Thank you for the review. You shared your perspectives well, while appreciating other perspectives. I have added Empire of the Summer Moon to my reading list.
I enjoy your channels and videos. Thank you very much for the excellent content.
I'd like to suggest the Hospital Construction channel to you both: Scott, I think you will appreciate and enjoy the logistics involved, Nate, I think you will enjoy and appreciate the photography and editing.
Thanks, take care, be well!!
; -)
From a first book review you did great!!!! Loved to hear the account, saved the book on my Amazon wish list, I mean... Awesome episode all around!
Thanks!
Reading this right now. Spot on review with where I’m at in the book. American history is so interesting that fiction isn’t needed to draw one in.
Great subject and great story telling..I will definitely buy the book and read. I would recommend in the future the book Crazy Horse & Custer by Stephen E. Ambrose. He tells the story of both leaders and how the lived parallel lives and clash at Little Big Horn. Ambrose is a great storyteller and delivered information I did not know about the native Americans at that time.
Fascinating review, and found the book in my local library today. Partway through, and am just blown away at the ... "lack" of governance in the bands of Comanche's, the food preferences and practices, and like those that came up against them, a complete "bogglement" of my mind in the rules of morality.... or lack thereof. Seems like it's based on... pleasure, entertainment, minimalist functionality... and that's it. It's what works, and I'm happy with it... Next!
And perhaps it's my aging brain, but despite the "simplicity", there's a LOT of complexity here in the presentation of the dynamics of the time, the conflicts in lives, lifestyles, between other "bodies" (tribes, governments, settlers, hustlers, traders, etc), and the clash of rules as we accept them (governance) against a group of people who don't play by the same values/rules. Thank you for your review, and I'm continuing to dig in...
I knew a SMALL portion of it (different tribe) as I have done research in the Dawes County, Nebraska area where my ancestor was a doctor in a small town (Crawford), situated 3 miles from Fort Robinson, a horse-based military establishment that was established to help "keep the peace" amongst Indians and white settlers, and... turning their heads when white settlers didn't honor the restrictions of settlement. It truly was a wild west. And people who were hardy (crazy) enough to tackle it have a great deal of respect from me for the constant dangers they were in with trying to make it on the land (often devoid of buffering components to shield from weather extremes) and the dangers of indians.
Well, I stopped the review midway and bought the book. I had already read her book about Stonewall Jackson, and decided I'd read this one; then come back for the rest of your review. Many thanks for the motivation! Keep doing good work - and bless you both! 🤠
On your endorsement I bought and read this book. An addicting read into the history of the American West. Like Nate my knowledge of the Comanche Nation was zero. A fabulous book that I can only endorse and have recommended to many since completing the read of what can only be described as a tomb.
I just started reading this book and I"m hooked. It's very well written and I'm learning things I didn't know. Great book so far.
Great insights. You all have a true appreciation of historical reality.
I went from wanting to go right now to buy the book to not wanting to buy it and back and forth several times. I sat many an evening listening to my Dad's mother tell stories of her childhood growing up in a culture of what is being described in this book review. I think the "village" life was coming to an end by the time she was growing up but a lot of it was still like the old days from what I remember from her stories...
Terry C. Johnston also wrote several similar novels based on true events of the Bozeman trail in Montana & Wyoming as well as books about the mountain man. Good books but I cant read about the Native American conflicts anymore. It shook me to the core.
Thanks for the review.
That battle you could not remember nate was the first or 2nd battle of adobe walls. The guy leading the troops was kit carson. Its covered from his perspective in blood and thunder.
In the novel "Dances with Wolves", the tribe IS COMANCHE. The characters of Ten Bears and Kicking Bird were actually real life Comanche and Kiowa chiefs.
I grew up in walking distance of the old Comanche base, Palo Duro Canyon. I have to really admire the Comanche warriors. Certainly, my ancestors that lived near Dallas 175 years ago had no enthusiasm for Comanche. While I am most sympathetic with the natives, they definitely drew their share of blood during colonization of Texas. The natives could be cruel beyond your imagination.
Thanks for the review. Now, wanting to go back and reread.
I'm a big fan of Ridley and his writing style. I was gifted Empire of the Summer Moon not too long ago and haven't opened it yet. I will do so tonight - thank you!
Fascinating! I’ll definitely look for this book and Joe Rogans interview with the author.
I grew up in the days when ‘Cowboys and Indians’ was probably the most popular game we played as boys. My grandfather had shelves full of Louis L’amour books and loved to spin yarns of the old cowboy days, as told to him by his father including an alleged [friendly] encounter with the infamous James Gang back in Kansas. And yes, I’m aware that there’s about as many family Jesse James tales as there where attendees to the Woodstock Festival but...we like to believe it’s true and we pass the stories on to our yungins as well.
Not to get political but I thought it was interesting that you brought up the fact that the Comanche ‘acquired’ lands from other tribes, that ‘acquired’ it from tribes before them and so-on and so-on. But the anglos that eventually ‘acquired’ the land to the present day are looked at as the bad guys. When all they did was the same thing their predecessors had done before them. Oh well, I guess that’s an argument for another day. 🤷♂️
The thing is we can all be assholes is someone else’s story, we humans are a very complex & full of grey.
Some of my ancestors were Chickasaw, and the Comanche raided them mercilessly in Oklahoma. When scouts spotted their horse dust, everyone had to go hide in the woods while they looted and killed anyone unlucky enough to still be around.
A great book. I enjoyed listening to your discussion. One of my favorite parts of the book is when the buffalo hunters are attacked in Colorado in the saloon and teach the Comanche a hard lesson about .54 caliber rifles that can shoot accurately a long distance. The entire book is excellent and deserves all the accolades it has received. I really enjoyed it and listening to you two react to it.. Most excellent.
Great topic especially given what is currently happening. Our local tribes are Mohawk, Sioux and Shawnee and I have always found them amazing people. I would research Tecumseh - a military genius and a philosopher way ahead of his time.
Again love your book reviews and your unique perspectives. Keep up the good work.
You should check out the book “And Grandma Said...” by Tom Porter. He talks about many fascinating things about the Kaniehkehaka Rotinonshoni (Mohawk) (Iroquois) people.
Enjoying the read👍👍👍👍 and review
I will be honest, I’m not a book reader really, it’s just not my thing, so I wasn’t going to watch this episode. But as usual, you captivated me and I’ve watched it all with great interest!
Keep up the good work 👍
And both very easy on the eyes -
Here in Illinois the libraries are still closed because of the pandemic. I think I'll wait a while longer before buying the book outright. I have enjoyed the previous books you have reviewed. Thank you
Need to read " Comanches ". Great read
Really enjoyed listening to the talk! If you were impressed/in doubt about shooting multiple arrows before the first one hit, check out a guy named Lars Anderson on TH-cam. He shows the lost ways of bow and arrow techniques! After watching that Im sure you'll agree that its possible! I'll be checking out your other videos!!
Thanks for the review - I've just ordered my copy. May I suggest Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond as a book worth reading and reviewing. It sounds like something you'd find fascinating.
I grew up in Kentucky and read everything I came across about the early days. Native Americans and settlers were matter of fact about living. Killing was part of life. To condemn any of the participants in the early movement of people's in this country means we all are connected. Violent and stomach turning acts happened often and by all sides. We must never take for granted the hard and costly lessons our forefathers/mothers have left us. History is truly written in blood. May we not repeat.
Keep up the good work!
This is a great book. Another that is equally as good is The Heart of Everything That Is: The Untold Story of Red Cloud, an American Legend by Bob Drury and Tom Calvin. Highly recommended.
Now having read the book, and re-watched your review, I want to commend you both for a wonderful book selection, and for your wisdom and insights in your comments. The story of Ranald Mackenzie was also a fascinating story within the book and I don't want to spoil anything more about it. I have to say that (as you pointed out), there's nothing held back, no political correctness here. It's brutal, it's eye-opening, and ultimately, reverent in how it deals with the main people in this story, and the brutal dynamics at play in so many ways. Life is so messy, and it's easy to judge people by what they've done in the past, but it's not so simple. And there is redemption in how you choose to embrace and live life as best you can. I couldn't help but shed a tear for Quanah Parker, Cynthia Ann, his mother, and Ranald, the one who helped bring an end to the Comanche's... and befriended Quanah. (THAT is a remarkable story too!) It is probably a bias... but to read about J M Chivington and the way he massacred the indians.. I get that the indians did similar things... but I was saddened to see a white military officer descend to the level he had as well, and even more shocked to see how much of the public supported it, and who opposed it on moral terms, because it was truly a choice in two evils. Kit Carson's role and condemnation against Chivington was amazing to read. Kit's description, as well as those of the Rangers certainly opened my eyes about how truly tough you had to be to survive in the west. Street smart tough (without the streets!).
This book is timely in that it provides some stark similarities and contrasts to the events of today with riots and media persuasion for shaping the perception by the people, and the resulting movements of the day. If anything, it shows that it takes courage to do the right thing, and in doing so, you're likely to pick up some scars that will define you for the rest of your life.
I hope I can track down that interview of S.C. Gwynne with Joe Rogan (put it in the notes?). And I hope to make a stop in Cache, Oklahoma.. to pay tribute to Quanah... and his mother. AMAZING stories!
Thank you gentlemen!
Great feedback and perspective - thank you for sharing!!
Summary: Don't mess with Texas! Looking forward to reading this book, gentlemen. Also the comment on 'unique and different people-tough, when those cultures collided, it is no surprise these things happened!' Thanks, men.
Really good podcast. I have been interested in Indian culture my whole life, being from Cherokee country. I recommend you to read about Sequoia. It's fascinating what he did. He developed the Cherokee syllabary after seeing and not understanding what written agreements even were between white men and Indians! (Spelling of syllabary is probably not correct) Regardless, he elevated himself as much as any native American and was still lied to by the American military and government as he was assisting them in their new world. His life is amazing. There is a museum in Tennessee that very definitively describes his life as a Cherokee. It is very well done. I went there recently and was surprised how little I knew about Sequoia and his accomplishments for his people.
Very enjoyably presented and nicely insightful, You probably have already read it but as a result of this review, you may enjoy Undaunted Courage by Stephen Ambrose. It is wonderfully researched and extremely enlightening as to Louis and Clark which you mentioned briefly in your review. Hope you keep up with these. Thank you both! I intend on reading this for sure.
Thanks for sharing and take care. 👍
Thanks for the recommendation!
I’m strangely fascinated by all of this information I just absorbed. Very cool.
Truly an “impressive” way to “break” a horse. I had no idea
I enjoyed this episode. Added those books to my wishlist
Great review gents! If you appreciate Native American history, I would reccomend the book "Code Talker" by Chester Nez, which goes over the history of the Navajo and their contributions to the U.S during WW2.
Had never head of Louis L'Amour untill I heard his name in a Ray Wylie Hubbard song.
You and Nate would enjoy Bill Bryson's book "A Brief History of nearly Everything"...It's a fascinating book and also ties in the importance of horses.
If you guys get a chance watch the( Dream Keeper )great mini series . I think you'll will love it .You sold me I'm dipping out early I want to read the book. You might have this in the section that I did not watch but announce the book before you review so we have a chance to read it before so we can have a online book club .
That was excellent and fascinating!
Its a fantastic book. Blood and thunder by Hampton sides and undaunted courage by Stephen Ambrose are very good as well.
Yes this is a great book, I was able to listen to this book on "Audible" since my eyes are getting bad even with reading glasses.
Heck yes, more book reviews
Lonesome Dove is a must read for both of you.
My great grandfather was quanta parker
wow awesome!!!
That was a great book. Read it sometime this past winter and then started picking up other books on Plains Indians. Definitely fascinating cultures
Regarding the rapid arrow shooting. Check out Lars Andersen on TH-cam. The guy is incredibly fast AND incredibly accurate. The "Jerry Miculek" of archery if you will.
I wouldn't worry about revealing things from a non-fiction book. we read the book, you read the book, discuss the book.
I played little league with Quanah, he was a bit of a ball hog but obviously he grew out of that eventually. The boys on our team always thought he was destined for greatness. Dude had an arm...used to throw out runners trying to go 1st to 3rd on singles all the time until word got out on him.
As I was looking for the interview you mention in the review, I came across this excerpt from it: th-cam.com/video/USHBsIjRaNI/w-d-xo.html in which S. C. Gwynne speaks about a possible movie about this... focused on the background and interaction of Quanah Parker and Ranald Mackenzie. I hope that comes about! The full interview is here: th-cam.com/video/Iq8Ss9yg6bo/w-d-xo.html
I need to get reading this I’ve heard Joe Rogan talk about this book before
I am on the side of the Calvary 🤗😎
Native people are still fighting colonialism to this very day
This book will knock your socks off. Cynthia Parker isn't known because it blows up so many popular narratives. It is about culture, NOT color.
Our land was fought for in blood. To say it was stolen is an insult to all the tribes that lost.
Great book on the horse culture of the great plains
Realize though that it only lasted for a relatively short period of time
Ok I had to press stop when they said they knew nothing about native history but pocahontas and dances with wolves. I don't have the patience for some first time mindblown b.s.....I want experts
Great book.... thanks joe rogan
Anybody who likes this book should read Carbine and Lance
Our education system is so crappy. It is agenda driven and not really an education. A true clash of cultures. Thank God for Oklahoma
Try the Maya, the Inca, the Toltec, etc that those Jesuit/Catholic Spaniards destroyed almost entirely and dismissed their entire cultures and never tried to treat them as human. At least the Comanche proved that you can't always win through declaration of superiority and hauteur.
I hate to bring this up, and maybe it's different in the US. But the term 'indian' is pretty derogatory up here in reference to first nation's.
We went through a phase of that, but American Indians have, by and large, reclaimed the name Indian. It's still a bit touchy among some people, but mostly Anglo SJW types. As long as the person using the term is doing so respectfully, it's generally acceptable.
Ian Douglas I’m assuming your in Canada. Being native in Canada it’s hard to get mad at people for using the word “Indian”. Considering I have to carry around a government card that says. “Certificate of Indian status”. But still many people prefer to be called First Nations
Have you guys read about other tribes? Many groups on the plains had good horsemen. Stop hyping the Comanches.
first?