Those distortion players give other distortion users a bad name, I personally pair distortion with We'll Make It, to give fast heals so we can both, hopefully, make a quiet get away. But ofc that's just me.
I don't play killer a lot, but when I do I try not to tunnel, but this shit happens ALL THE TIME, so of course I end up tunneling because the teammate who unhooked disappears. Then they have the audacity to message me after the game shit talking me for tunneling......
@@tyler_keeble OMG Yes, I had this the other night playing Killer on Coldwind. Was trying my damnedest not to tunnel, but one of the survivors was running, Selfaware, Distortion, Urban and some other stealth perk that by the time I'd find them healing under hook, they'd had disappeared leaving the person who had been just unhooked to my mercy. Three times in a to this happened (all separate hooks) and I decided to let the unhooked survivor go (but hitting them if they were healed), because their teammate was being a stealthy asshole.
Quite frankly if the killer is close enough to be on your ass that quick, they no doubt saw the person who unhooked you. They actively chose to ignore them lol.
I always get anoyed when I'm hocked in solo, the killer turns around to leave and my team mate immediately unhocks me before he can leave. I can't even be mad when the killer targets me again since he's right in front of me. You're litteraly being served on a silver platter at that point.
Personally I started playing a little before the devs came out and said tunneling is a legit strategy and to not report it or something like that. So when I would "tunnel" someone as a new player people would just blatantly say reported and try to do the shame bullshit n have no issues on laughing at me "getting banned" or whatever. That experience alone cements me in tunneling just as a giant walking middle finger cause I can.
I am probably guilty of proxy camping, because a survivor on hook and a survivor unhooked are solid info, if i dont know where anyone else is when they get unhooked, i'll go back and try to chase the one who unhooked, and half the time the only one i can find is the one who was hooked. I can and sometimes do choose to ignore the one who was hooked if there's no other info, but if the game isnt going well, i literally have no one else to go after? And if that person also is going straight for a second unhook or a gen or something, i can't realistically ignore them at that point? at least without throwing.
As much as I find tunneling boring I'm starting to see it as more of a tool the killer can use when in a bad spot. No this does not include those killers that do it at like 5-4 gens.
I typically don’t tunnel. Certainly not to the point, that I hard-tunnel somebody out of the game early. I know, how annoying that can be to go against. Especially if you get several games of this in a row. When you get routinely reduced to a 1v3 early on in solo q (which is what I typically play, when I play survivor), that’s game! Especially if the next survivor sees it for what it is and just murders himself on hook. So you are left with unwinnable games, that just devolve into cobbling together a few blood points and pissing off to the next one. Rinse and repeat. Sessions like that can be brutal and get me back into the killer queue in no time.
Yeah, I get wanting survivors out of the game if gens are popping and you're in a bad spot. But most of the killers I come across that are tunneling do it from the get-go. It's their whole strategy. And there really isn't much you can do about it. It's just such a boring playstyle.
I play both sides but avoid survivor if ive been tunneled out a lot in a short period. Its not fun, plain and simple. I just want to get survivor archives done but its not usually possible if im getting out of the game at 5-4 gens. If i have a chase archive then yay, please do tunnel me actually im not bad at looping and youll probably regret it. But Im running out of those and need to participate in other aspects of survivior gameplay. Id call tunneling less toxic (unless the killer is making a show of it like hitting on hook) and more just disappointing/annoying.
Almost 8 years into DBD's lifespan and we're still being harassed and scrutinized both in and outside the game for not following the imaginary survivor rulebook. What the hell is wrong with people
@neonclouds9295 unfortunately almost every dbd player has a built in victim complex when it comes to this game, everything is always the other sides fault reguardless of the situation. Yes both survivors or killers have their own 'rulebook' they go by, all it takes is to look at this comment section and see how both sides are 100%, entitled and don't actually look at the game objectively for both sides. 😅
Sometimes I "tunnel" people with the intent of trying to FORCE someone else to take the fall or to protect the vulnerable survivor. I essentially threaten/pressure the unhooked survivor to try and draw out any unhooker or other players to take the chase. I do this mainly because a LOT of times I see an unhook happens and the unhooker is NOWHERE to be seen. I actually get quite annoyed when this fails and I just end up tunneling a guy out. I've had people moan at me for that and I've always said "blame your teammates, they made NO effort to help you"
exactly! if thats the only info i have and the only person i can find is the one who was just on hook, who is easier to track because they are bleeding all over, i can either ignore them and potentially be throwing the game, or go for them. And if i do go for them and no one even tries to take any aggro, well, sucks for them. And it does suck for that person, its one reason i dont play solo survivor.
I do This too, but instead of hooking, try slugging. This forces somebody to heal them off the ground, this makes 2 people not making gens 3 if you get a chase, and you get free information about at least 1 survivor all this time
I agree with you. Survivor Mains just need to play more Killer to understand why we do what we do. And the other way around. Some Killer Players really don't give a flying fuck for how the other Side feels.
@@neonclouds9295play surviver as a solo is miserable this is the reason I main killer I can talkeabout a topic without a spreadsheet on how often I play survivor or killer on a frequent basis
I don't give a flying fuck how survivors feel cuz they dont give a flying fuck how we feel and I've put at least 20 hours into survivor so I have played both sides and I dislike playing survivor it's boring as fuck
@@liandre9035 "Maybe leave pvp for people like you who just want to argue so they can have their little internet wars with each other." For somebody, who is so contrarian and vocal in this comment section, you are awkwardly quick to dismiss other opinions as "little internet wars". And labeling everybody as "annoying cry babies" is of course, the number one convenient calling card of every inconsiderate dickhead in existence. I personally find the notion to play a game, where you specifically interact with others, only to proudly not care about their experience whatsoever, straight up weird .... for reasons, that should be obvious enough. But then again, some people seem to have a strange sense of pride in being an abrasive edgelord for the mere sake of it .... and then they call others entitled. Which is just next level tone-deaf.
Seriously great video. No bias just straight facts.. The biggest fact is the "survivor induced" bit. Example, if you're a sabo gamer, you should expect me to target you a little more than the other 3. You're literally stopping me from doing the one thing I'm designed to do. So of course I'm going to get you out as early as I can because surprise surprise, I like winning 🤷🏿♂️
If survivors can gen rush then I can tunnel, Simple as that. It's 1v4, Even if the killer is stronger the survivors will always be able to get more things done faster than me. Of course this is killer and item dependent, I'm not even gonna touch the pertks side of the whole tunneling debate. If survivors can complete 2 gens while I just got into chase at the beginning of the match I feel tunneling makes the odds even. And of course survivors can counter tunneling by not saving their teammates and doing gens stealthy. They are called survivors, Not super heroes.
If taking one player out as early and aggressively as possible is an optimal strategy to win, that is *absolutely* a game design issue. Thats not saying killers are doing anything wrong by tunneling, thats BHVR being wrong by making it the best strategy. BHVR should absolutely implement measures to make tunneling *not* the best strategy. For instance, if we were to modify Dying Light a bit and make it basekit for all killers, that could do wonders for the issue. Something to the effect of "Whenever you hook a survivor, all survivors suffer -2%/3%/whatever% penalty to gen repair speeds, stacking. When any survivor dies, lock in this penalty at its current value." Or something like that. The point is to make tunneling not the optimal way to win, and players will quit doing it.
Even that wouldn't solve it. Because if you kill one survivor, that is a whopping 25% deduction on everything. Possibly even more, if the eliminated survivor had better understanding of the macro gameplay or was the designated healer.
Nah, on this one we depart. 3 points. 1.Over the years I've tried to get almost everyone to try this game. Of those who enjoyed it, most quit before 200 hours over tunneling/camping/bleed outs. If you get tunneled in like 7 out of 10 games, earning 8k BP and depipping everytime, then having to wait for the game to end, the answer "just get good" or "just grind for perks" isn't cutting it for that player. I think that's a game design issue. Implement a minimum BP gain for survivors who are hooked multiple times, remove depipping, and make OTR a free perk. Fixes some of these issues. 2. Tunneling is counterable and to an extent, balanced. The strategy behind it is lopsided though. The killer can choose to tunnel anytime, but non-SWFs have to rely on the UI, incomplete map markers, and actual guessing to know what to do. In other games we can talk, but DBD loves limiting comms and info. If tunneling is to stay, every player should have the info needed to play around it. At least it'd be more interactive, then. 3. I dislike every discussion of tunneling it's this circular thing of who's at fault or what's proportional or how people cry wolf. Strong killers stacking slowdown and tunneling at 5 gens will insta-win most of their games. Public lobbies aren't built to accomodate them. Even aside from finding tunneling boring, I don't think that's good for the game. That's my issue.
Aye is pronounced as "eye".. so is that how u pronounce that? Nothing wrong if you do. Just don't make fun of how others say words differently from you
I don't get why survivors get so upset at tunneling. I thought getting chased was the best part of the game. Are they that excited to go and do gens? I guess they don't want to be chased while injured and on their own terms, but you are still being chased which is what everyone calls the best part of the game. Maybe they don't want to die early on but just get better. You're not going to get better at running from the killer sitting on a gen.
The problem is that they want to take chase and loop you forever while gens get cranked. If they keep going down and/or gens arent being worked on, they suddenly dont want to be chased anymore
As a killer i personally only tunnel early on if the survivor is pissing me off in some way and clearly wants attention, then i give it to them. As a survivor i love being tunneled, means that Instead of holding left click on a gen and doing nothing else i can run the killer around, contribute to the team and maybe finish it early then hell yea i love that.. The chase is the funnest part of the survivor experience... That's why i Tbag killers so that they can focus me whenever possible. Also i agree with that statement that the fault of tunneling is on the unhooker sometimes... If im a killer and someone unhooks 5 seconds after i hook them, and all i see is the injured person and the unhooker isn't in sight, im chasing the injured.. As you say, im not losing my game for these randoms.
For me, tunneling should be used only if necessary as last resort. Lately, I've had matches where the Survivors pop two gens instantly, thus I've had to go on defense. Especially with SWFs and bully squads. Since Sable's arrival into the realm, Territorial Imperative has been very useful. But back to the topic, I think that you should only tunnel as last resort. Am I wrong?
If you are tunneling on purpose, sure last resort. But if you just happen to be running into the same survs because sally silhouette harry hides all game are born in darkness while barry the gen bomber blows his and freddy face tank's cover every two seconds, then there is no reason to let barry or freddy live. Most of the time the survs that get tunneled do it to themselves. I'll be mid chase of never down ned and round the corner to cut ned off and suddenly I'm smacking terry trips a lot fresh off of two tabs with no idea where terry came from or where ned went. Do I let terry go because I feel bad? Hell no! I'm a hairy hooker... I mean Harry the god damn hooker and terry has two extra holes already and sabrina sky spider is hungry for thrice punctured people punch.
I think the most important part is to stop crying and get better. Sure, when you play Solo tunneling feels bad but when I play with friends its so important to focus on your chase. Make the killer regret that he is trying to tunnel you out of the game and when you friends split up on gens and genrush that killer it doesnt feel bad when you die at the end and your teammates get out. I'm not a fan of tunneling but it feels so good when you try your best and the killer gets only one kill when you did everything right. Because most of the killer who tunnel are just bad at the game and doesn't know how to bring up pressure.
@@jaydonarchuleta5691 Thats what I said - it feels really bad when you play solo - but solo always feels bad when your teammates are allergic to gens, the killer doesnt even need to tunnel in that case to make the match horrible.
I find a lot of P50+ survivors accuse me more for tunneling. But if they run into me and tank a hit after hook ofc im gonna go for them… why would I go for the full health one if they give me the free hit?? Or when the designated runner is mad that I didn’t tunnel them all game and went for the genjokeys (weakest link) Why would I go for the one I can’t seem to catch when I win if I kill the other 3? And usually the ones that tank gens are not as good at looping. Win in my book is a 3K (4 is just a bonus) :)
Run away to save yourself after getting unhooked=gets yelled at by teammate for not taking a hit Takes hit after getting unhooked=gets tunneled WTF AM I SUPPOSED TO DO BRO THERES NO RIGHT ANSWERS
It's a huge problem in solo queue. The sweaty killers will go after your dogshit teamates who brought meme perks instead of anti-tunneling stuff and the other three survivors can be comp gods but a 3v1 against a high tier killer with pain res/pop is almost unwinnable. Otz said it best a while back, (I don't usually parrot content creators but it's still a good point.) To counter tunneling every survivor needs to make a coordinated effort, bring anti tunnel perks, and be decent in chase. It's too much to ask of casual players.
I can get behind an 'invulnerability' timer for Survivors when they got unhooked, but I would have demand one condition, and request another. The demand would be to make it like Sadako's Demanifest so you can walk threw them, so that they can't use that time to body block you -- because they will. The request is that the feature is canceled after three gens, if for no other reason than -- yes -- Tunneling is actually a strategy that is sometimes needed to pry victory from the Survivors' sweaty, flashlight clicking hands. I wouldn't be too upset in the long term if it didn't get canceled: there'd be the kneejerk response of anger at the decision, but I'd probably get over it after a few games.
@@neonclouds9295 this is probably gonna be a massive shock to you, but killer has more powerful stuff than survivor because there's one killer and four survivors. This is an asymmetrical game and that's just basic design.
My code for tunneling (when I do it) 1. Body block for unhooker, your basically asking for it at this point 2. I happen to find you alone, especially if you’re working on a gen. If your with another teammate I’ll go after them but if your alone tough luck 3. Hook sabo build. I hate these survivors, they must be removed from my game
@@hcctendeep7047 so you get mad at the killer for killing? There, fixed it for you. I’m not even trying to defend one side over the other, I’m saying this stupid tired argument that survivors use can easily be used against them.
@@hcctendeep7047i mean you can also say that tunneling is just playing the game the way that it's supposed to be played since it's one of the best strategies
@@neonclouds9295I’m not gonna waste 2 perk slots if I try to get a hook and this one sabo gamer keeps sabotaging the hooks you best believe their target number 1 if they are actively preventing me from getting hooks then I must solve the issue which is killing them ie tunneling
if they went with ur invincibility idea they would have to disable that survivor’s collision for those 10 seconds. also i would absolutely love 12 hooking every game but its just not possible in equal skill matches and some people can’t accept that unfortunately.
Now that we'll opened the discussion of Tunneling; I would like to suggest that if the Killer could see the Survivors Hook Count individually, ironically, that would make it easier for the Killer not to Tunnel when the Killer is actually trying not to do so.
Especially since not having that really just only hinders new players who haven't gotten used to tracking the hook states of the survivors, and neurodivergent players who kinda physically can't- Or, at least, struggle with multitasking so much? Because literally any good killer main with tens of thousands of hours will be able to just mentally track the hook states of survivors on their own by memorizing who they've hooked, how many times, and taking note when a survivor goes down a hook state while on hook. All making it visible to killers would do, would be opening it up as a feature for all to use, rather than just leaving it exclusive to people like Otzdarva who have trained themselves to do it on their own. It won't really give good killers an advantage, considering it's something good killers would already have- It'd just help new killers, and give killer mains one less unnecessary thing to learn to keep track of.
I think the "people at some point just wanting you to throw the game for them thing" kind of goes hand in hand with people wanting you essentially make sure they are having fun. However, you shouldn't have to play for the other side's fun you should play for your own and that is where some people like to win and winning/playing to win is their way of enjoying the game so if some people don't find that fun to play against then oh well.
I've been working on an idea for an anti-tunnel mechanic that I'm hoping can alleviate the problem immensely. Any numbers I've put in here aren't concrete and can be tweaked if necessary. I want to know if there are any potential problems for these mechanics because I want to account for anything that could make this problematic (like how the anti-slug was problematic) The Immunity Status Effect: - Survivors become "immune" when unhooked - Immune survivors glow in white when they are immune (like in Dredge's nightfall) - Immune survivors have no collision with the killer whatsoever, including projectiles and killer lunge - Survivors lose immunity when they perform a conspicuous action or when the killer hooks another survivor. If the killer hooks a survivor within 15 seconds after a survivor is unhooked, they are granted immunity for 30 seconds (This is to account for hook trades) - When 2 generators remain, the immune effect is put on a timer of 30 seconds, so the killer has more of a window to tunnel to secure a kill before endgame. - When the last gen is completed, the immune status effect is disabled for the rest of the trial, leaving only the traditional endurance effect from unhooks. To help killers with this sort of "play nice" system would be introducing a new base mechanic that I don't have a name for yet, but I'm sure someone can find a cool name for it. - When a killer hooks a survivor, the survivor with the least amount of hook states will have their aura revealed in yellow. This aura reveal can be programmed differently from traditional aura reading so Distortion rats can't avoid it. This aura remains on the survivor until either the killer is within 32 meters of that survivor or they hook another survivor. - If multiple survivors have the same number of hook states, then this effect will apply either to a random survivor or the survivor who hasn't been hooked as recent as the other ones. - If the killer hooks the survivor who was most recently revealed through the yellow aura, then they are granted a stackable 20% blood points per time they successfully hook each yellow aura survivor. - If this seems too strong if the survivor is unaware of this, then maybe add either a sound cue or something on the HUD to let them know they are potentially next. Ideally, this could help killers get into chases quicker, and reward them if they can successfully end those chases, while spreading hooks out evenly.
Oh they could just make killers not have collision while carrying a survivor and make survivors have no collision and be immune to basic attacks after being hooked. Solves tunneling and body blocking.
@@liandre9035 That I can understand. However, my problem with hook trades is that the unhooked survivor has little to no agency if the killer decides to tunnel them. Why should they be punished for someone else's mistake?
@@liandre9035 how would the killer be punished? Not only do they have a clear sight of who to chase next, but they can also go for the unhooker who did a bad play to begin with. If anything, the unhooker should be the one punished overall.
@@liandre9035 that's the problem. No one wants to play to get better anymore. It's always optimize, optimize, optimize. It's unfun strategies for the sake of winning almost all of the time. I understand needing to secure a kill the closer it gets to endgame, that's why I added a timer once there are a couple gens remaining. But tunneling at 4-5 gens is just flat out unnecessary because you don't know how the match will go that early on. It's worse for newer players who are playing with more experienced friends who spend more time spectating than playing the game because they are the weak link that got tunneled out early. I've had many friends leave this game because of this "optimal" play style, along with other reasons, because it gets boring after awhile.
Honestly I only tunnel for a couple of reasons 1: If you use basekit bt for body blocking, it’s meant to be an anti tunnel mechanic not a free mettle of man protection hit. 2: If it gets down to 2 gens and I don’t have at least 5-7 hooks. 3: If your teammate unhooks and then leaves, sorry but I have to build pressure and slowdown by hooking and you’re the only one in sight. 4: If you sabo, you’re just annoying like why wouldn’t I tunnel you. 5: If it’s endgame. 6: If you t-bag, you obviously want to be chased if you t-bag. 7: You all switch to one character and all have a flashlight, you’re obviously a swf so ima play dirty.
Am I the only one that feels like basekit BT is good enough? Tunneling is more often than not a Survivor induced problem. Unhooking right next to the Killer, running head on at the Killer to give him a kiss, or knowing the Killer is going to come back so you sit under hook waiting for me to heal you when I have zero stacks of Autodidact. I think it's truly a skill issue, and nothing more.
OTR. It is BY FAR the best perk for you if you have this problem. If you don't use OTR, your complaints about tunneling are void. It's that simple. It's one of the strongest killer strategies if used correctly, there is absolutely no denying that. That's what makes OTR beyond S-Tier. Use it, or never speak of tunneling.
Omg I too am still in my infancy of killer and ghostface is also my number 1. Love it!! Lol I always tell people hey I just go for whoever is in front of me. If I'm within range of the hook still and they pull within range then yeah I'm circling back towards hook to see if they are healing under hook if they aren't I'll use my bbq knowledge and go elsewhere. But! If someone insta pulls off hook and then that unhooked survivor body blocks with endurance sure now you're right in front of me I'm going for the down. Usually USUALLY I'll let them stay slugged. Lol but if I can't find someone I'll just go back to where I know people are. The hook. Also if I find someone new and they are juicer survivors I'll drop chase when I know I am not qualified. I'll go find the weaker links. I'm also at that phase of killer where p100's scare me so I won't dodge the lobby but I will target them if I can early on. That's a me thing I'm working on lol p100's still scare me hahahaha
I almost tunneled a guy a few days ago. Got him hooked twice, then downed. They had 0 gens done. And I realized this guy had been screwed over by his teammates. So I let him wiggle free on purpose. He ended up being the last alive and I let him have hatch
The fact that Borrowed Time is now basekit for survivors only means that tunneling has been dealt with and survivors have zero right to complain about tunneling. Also, bully squads are going to bully. I'm sorry that they took it further than the usual bully squads, but seriously, fuck those guys. They are the reason that DBD is so toxic right now.
I dont understand why some group would want to bully the killer expecting a salty killer, then those same players get salty about tunneling.. like... If you're gonna bully the killer, dont complain if they outsmart you turning the salt around
Great video, i think 1 thing that was missed however is the toxic tunneler. I cant confirm this 100% but worth saying im a claud main and i have had probably 5-81 games recently where i have been tunneled from min 1 relentlessly until death. Then the killer suddenly has a change of heart and is friendly to the other survs. Only recently i began to think does this have a hidden racist motivation. Im white too so that isnt usually in my thoughts but since i did think about it i cant get it out of my head haha!
In my view, tunneling is only a problem when the killer clearly came into tunnel. There is nothing you can do at that point. I have tunneled players out in games I have played, both intentionally and unintentionally. I am photosensitive so when I get a bully survivor that is constantly trying to flashlight me, I will tunnel them out. And honestly, if you are a bully survivor, imo, you should expect to be tunneled. There are a lot of anti-tunnel perk already in the game. I think slugging is often more problematic than tunneling personal. But, it is also part of the game and sometimes the only way for a killer to win.
Focusing a survivor and tunneling are different things. Tunneling is three hooking someone to the exclusion of anyone else. Focusing someone is noticing at three gens that these geks are popping too quick, and you gotta take out whoever has already been hooked most. Any bitching about focusing should not be taken seriously.
Had an experience very similar with Myers on Yamaoaka Estate. Ended up having to bleed three of the four out. They never touched a single gen, they did nothing but flashlight and head on.
I've always thought the devs went in the wrong direction with camping,tunneling,slugging, etc. I think they should make it a fair way to still use instead of shunning them and encourage them to use them When i joined as a brand new person, those were some of the best tactics as i had not read on any of the forums, so i was blind to the "survivors rule book for killer" and i could use these tactics to win i wasnt reliant on them but it did help to have. But after i found out that ppl disliked that, i stopped using them altogether and started losing a lot more to really good survivors as i no longer had ways to bring back unfavorable matchups that i could have won if i decided to slug a bit harder (i liked to slug someone and use them as bait by hiding close by while cloaked as wraith) or tried to buy myself some time and maybe one or two more hook states by camping a hook to get survivors to get off gens and bring them to me or if i had tunneled out that good looper or weak link of the team at three gens instead of 2
Honestly, I don't care who I'm going after. If I go around the map and I see someone's injured, I'm going after the injured person even though I just hooked them.
This video sums up my experience with tunnelling the amount of rage messages I get on PS5 for tunnelling when majority of the time they ran into me is ridiculous but also quite funny to see people moan at me constantly
I doubt tunneling is intended, since the developers regurarily add perks and mechanics to encourage people to target different survivors over the one you just hooked. The developers clearly don’t want people to tunnel. Body blocking however has multiple perks that encourage it
As a killer main, I see your point. However, you can't deny that tunneling at 5 gens is a powerful strategy. too powerful even. As you said, a dead player is the best slowdown you can get. if you get it early, the game becomes a downhill battle. It's strategically sound, but utterly ruthless. In other words, it's a broken strat. Furthermore, you're point about perks is flawed. In order to fully prevent a tunneling, you need every player to run an anti tunneling perk. if even one of them doesn't, the killer can just tunnel that player.
Tunneling at 5 gens is only a ppwerful strategy if you can successfully down the person. If not it does nothing but cost you the game. Furthermore my point about perks isnt flawed because if the person getting tunneled has anti tunneling perks then they are just wasting more time than normal. Which leads into the first point of tunneling at 5 gens isnt as good as people think it is. Gens only take 90 seconds man, without toolboxes, greatskill checks or perks, the avg chase lasts 30 seconds. If you can extedn that by even a little bit then the killer has lost the game because they over commited
Yeah thats fine, Its just not necessarily fun for all parties. Survivors need to stop taking it personally but its still demotivating getting hooked three times in a row before anyone else
Dead hard and off the record are completely worthless when killers always hit u right after you get unhooked. They are not anti-tunnel and neither is trash bag decisive strike
Best part about the tunnelling discussion is when complaining about "being tunnelled at 5 gens" which either the survivor is so bad that they go down like flies, the unhooks are ultra fast and unsave or survs are literally not doing gens. If you do the math if it comes to 1 person out at 5 gens it is on the surv 100% of the time, either partially not contributing or sucking, and with no reason to playing fair (because bhvr after years has yet to implement an actual incentive to go for multiple ppl) why wouldnt the killer capitalise?
I do agree with every point you just said, and when we talk about survivor enduces tunnelling, I wanted to bring up 2 scenarios of survivors enduce tunnelling where a survivor brings 2 different perk combos one is being a Distortion and Calm Spirit gamer and the other one is the FTP and Buckle Up user, The Distortion and Calm Spirit gamer it mainly boils down to Distortion, cuz your looking for a survivor with BBQ and chili but you cannot find the Distortion gamer and you end up tunnelling the person that just got off hook 30 seconds ago and then it happens again and again and again, and your basically just forced to tunnel someone cuz their hiding their aura cuz the one that hides their aura is terrible in chase and he wants to escape through hatch by just hiding and letting their teammates die. Buckle Up+FTP on the other hand, killers catch one of these little shits using the most busted and broken combo, they tunnel the player that has the combo just so they don't ever pull off the combo in their faces again.
I'm used to being tunneled, because sometimes I understand that it's the most logical thing, killer can do in some situations. They are at 2 gens, and there is only one person who was hooked twice. And the unhooker was never hooked at all. Wo it's logical for killer to target someone dead on hook. But my friend, who I constantly play with, truly believes, that if you tunnel, then you simply bad at the game. You don't know how to pressure everyone equally, so you target weak link instead of learning how to play killer properly
dead hard is literally a free perk every survior can spend blood points on to have as an anti tunnel perk, and as an unhooker you can bring bowwered time which can mess with killers who count down the endurance timer off hook, making the unhooked survior safer over all. And again, the best anti tunnel the team can bring is gen rushing. I cant count the amount of times ive played solo q, only to either be tunneled, have a team mate who is being tunnneled, and the ENTIRE team is trying to get flashlight saves, sabo saves, and body blocks, and no gens are being progressed execpt maybe one. Again, rushing gens hurts the killer for tunneling. Its fine if one other survior is there to help out and get saves and body block, but when you have two or three of them....the match stalls and the killer gains easy pressure
3:14 I wouldn’t even call that stupid… well ok it is pretty stupid. but beyond that, it’s just called a chase. The killer threw the game for a 5 gen chase lol I agree, they should change the base kit endurance to just remove collision/interaction so that they can’t get hit by the killer for 10s this reminds me of the hot take that said “casual” players complain about camping, tunneling, and slugging infinitely more than comp players. It’s actually kinda funny how true that is 😂
tunneling is a problem unless ur 4men sadly thats how it is. randoms gets tunneled and downed in 2 taps, if u build a build to save randoms then u will throw the game by not doing gens etc. ofc u will win games, but lets be honest, u have a lot of cheesy ways to win as a killer. feels bad for soloq players which are majority in the game, game currently is balanced around 4men, and just because some people that play comp use 1 perk slot each doesnt mean that is much weaker than 4 second chances perks, and it goes the same for the killers, if killer use 4gen perks but cant down people quick then they will lose the game anyway, some chase perks can solve that issue tho, game is very situational, around the highest levels a good killer can beat a good team, same opposite, dont buy into those people who think that if every1 have dh and off the record then thats the only viable option, trust me a comp billy/blight/nurse/spirit/huntress etc, can still demolish comp teams even if they were stacked with the best items/perks. both sides have them broken stuff to use. both sides are restricted in comp games, the idea of using 1 perk each can make games unpredictable for killers which can cause them to lose games which they would normally win if they expected everyone to run the same perks lol. tunneling will always be a problem for casuals tho and majority are casuals, i will give u an idea, find a good team to play with often, the moment u do, u will gain mmr quickly, then u will drop the games with ur team and go for soloq games, now that ur in soloq ur mmr is still high, u will get better killers but shity teams and u will notice how shit the game is, because if u want to have fun with friends u will gain mmr then u will be screwed if u soloq, mostly if u want to play soloq if u want and some people wont care, but many would. u will find tunneling an issue when u will be the one that is getting 2 tapped by blights with iri tags. lol
The invulnerability would help against tunneling the best we don't need no more second chance perks 😂. OTR, dh, ds and adrenaline together can extend chases by 2-3 mins so if the survivors don't like tunneling then there's your build. Yes they shouldn't be forced to use the perks but players can say that about killers that they shouldn't be forced to use gen perks. But ye invulnerability would work the best but I would berf OTR to 40 seconds so survivors don't get fre distance or try to take a body block hit and I would disable invulnerability at endgame
Yea most of the time when I get tunneled I‘m not mad at the killer, I‘m mad at my teammates. Because tunneling actually has counterplay. If you play against a coordinated team and you start tunneling someone, they will do everything in their power to make you not succeed at that. But survivors not being coordinated is just another soloQ issue…
Tbh as killer I tunnel cause sometimes as u said it happens cause bad choice on survivors end or no other option. Playing survivor I remember my fourth game playing and the doctor I was against was coming after me chasing me right after unhooked and I left the hook to heal as he saw teammates chase for five seconds then left quick to find me at 5 gens it happens
When I get tunneled as surv I’m a killer main so I can’t get mad when I understand why they’re tunneling, it’s never malicious, they need pressure, 3 gens and only hooked me and needs that out, or I was unhooked in their face which is asking for me to get farmed so I never get mad at tunneling at most maybe slightly annoyed but I get it
If they were to add the invincibility off hook then it should have no collision with the killer otherwise people will just body block the killer off hook. But I totally agree with what you say in this video. Tunneling isn’t this cardinal sin people make it out to be😅. I personally don’t do it because i value the happiness of other people but there is nothing wrong with tunneling to win or tunneling as a whole. There are systems in place to help you, perks that can make it harder to tunnel, loops to run around etc. Sure you might be injured off hook but that’s no different then playing against for example plague, or legion (if you are smart enough to not heal). Being injured should not be a deathsentence for you (for me it is because i suck 😅, but i know that so I don’t complain about tunneling)
I usually get 6 hooks about before I kill someone but I also see something inherently wrong that killers like hillbilly immediately wait to go to the hook and tunnel out. I wish the game would wait five seconds to notify when someone’s unhooked(as a oni,bubba, and artist main)
I dont normally tunnel, but when 2 gens pop in the first 30 seconds and I just got done being bully-squaded the last game? TUNNELMAINA BROTHER! What you gonna DOOO? When my Oni's 56 inch pythons come for YOUUU, Brother??
to be fair getting tunneled by omega nurse back in the day with map offering was pretty toxic, not that i cared. but it kinda wasnt fun for nobody lmao
I still stand by basekit ds but not as strongly as before i think we need to do it in a ptb to how it will effect the game otherwise I think as well as invulnerability you should get a 50% haste for 10 sec instead of 10% haste that way you can get even further but if they did this they would either need to remove it interlay in end game or at least the invulnerability
I said this in Mr headaches chat the other day but I think they should add the no collision thing like u said make it where survivors cant abuse so they can’t body block and if u touch a gen or heal u know it goes away there would be no literally way to tunnel at that point and if the killer waits it out it should kinda be near off the record time so they would legit throw the game would need tweaking but I think they could make it work lmk what y’all think
@@misterpinkandyellow74 maybe going against swf but they usually throw the game anyway trolling the killer and I wouldn’t say solo Q is survivor sided by no means just my thoughts
@@misterpinkandyellow74 u saying the game is survivor sided has nothing do for balance if your killer sided that really doesn’t help on how to balance the game
I say all the time if a survivor is always whining and complaining about being tunneled it’s most a issue on the survivor side I’ve gotten so many DMS from survivors because I so called tunneled when in reality they got outplayed and just need to get better and also when i tunnel a survivor majority of the time I do it because either 2 reasons they’re getting gens completed at light speed or I’m doing it because it’s a strategy not to be toxic survivors are just whiny babies and BHVR constantly panders to them
you know its bad when you are forced to equip perks against it and even those perks either arent strong enough due to the killer or cuz of the design itself being poorly made, or dont equip and lose
Well...no. like the entire point of perks is to enhance your abilties within the game. If tunneling was a product of bad design Id agree with you but its not. Its a product of win conditions. You equip perks to help counter the win conditions of the opponent or help you be stronger and have advantages. You can always just learn how to loop better. Thats a viable counter to tunneling. If the killer cant catch you, they cant tunnel you. Is it sometimes completley out of your control? Sure but what is ALWAYS in your control in this game. Your own actions being the only thing.
yeah my arguement is thats how the game is made... its like saying in chess on you cant take my piece even though stratigically you would be winning but it would be toxic like it doesnt make sense it is just a dbd specific problem tbh
The worst part about tunneling is the distortion teammates who will unhook you near the killer and leave you to the wolves.
Those distortion players give other distortion users a bad name, I personally pair distortion with We'll Make It, to give fast heals so we can both, hopefully, make a quiet get away.
But ofc that's just me.
I don't play killer a lot, but when I do I try not to tunnel, but this shit happens ALL THE TIME, so of course I end up tunneling because the teammate who unhooked disappears. Then they have the audacity to message me after the game shit talking me for tunneling......
@@tyler_keeble OMG Yes, I had this the other night playing Killer on Coldwind. Was trying my damnedest not to tunnel, but one of the survivors was running, Selfaware, Distortion, Urban and some other stealth perk that by the time I'd find them healing under hook, they'd had disappeared leaving the person who had been just unhooked to my mercy.
Three times in a to this happened (all separate hooks) and I decided to let the unhooked survivor go (but hitting them if they were healed), because their teammate was being a stealthy asshole.
I'm personally super aggressive when running distortion
Quite frankly if the killer is close enough to be on your ass that quick, they no doubt saw the person who unhooked you. They actively chose to ignore them lol.
I always get anoyed when I'm hocked in solo, the killer turns around to leave and my team mate immediately unhocks me before he can leave. I can't even be mad when the killer targets me again since he's right in front of me. You're litteraly being served on a silver platter at that point.
Personally I started playing a little before the devs came out and said tunneling is a legit strategy and to not report it or something like that. So when I would "tunnel" someone as a new player people would just blatantly say reported and try to do the shame bullshit n have no issues on laughing at me "getting banned" or whatever. That experience alone cements me in tunneling just as a giant walking middle finger cause I can.
@@11Eighty6 They were probably the type to cry to their parents after losing a game on split screen halo too lmao.
I agree. Most people don't understand tunneling. It's also like complaining about Gen rush yeah it sucks but it's how they win.
I am probably guilty of proxy camping, because a survivor on hook and a survivor unhooked are solid info, if i dont know where anyone else is when they get unhooked, i'll go back and try to chase the one who unhooked, and half the time the only one i can find is the one who was hooked. I can and sometimes do choose to ignore the one who was hooked if there's no other info, but if the game isnt going well, i literally have no one else to go after? And if that person also is going straight for a second unhook or a gen or something, i can't realistically ignore them at that point? at least without throwing.
As much as I find tunneling boring I'm starting to see it as more of a tool the killer can use when in a bad spot. No this does not include those killers that do it at like 5-4 gens.
I typically don’t tunnel. Certainly not to the point, that I hard-tunnel somebody out of the game early. I know, how annoying that can be to go against. Especially if you get several games of this in a row. When you get routinely reduced to a 1v3 early on in solo q (which is what I typically play, when I play survivor), that’s game! Especially if the next survivor sees it for what it is and just murders himself on hook.
So you are left with unwinnable games, that just devolve into cobbling together a few blood points and pissing off to the next one. Rinse and repeat. Sessions like that can be brutal and get me back into the killer queue in no time.
2 times where i tunnel as killer: get pressure off gens or if some makes themselves a target
Yeah, I get wanting survivors out of the game if gens are popping and you're in a bad spot. But most of the killers I come across that are tunneling do it from the get-go. It's their whole strategy. And there really isn't much you can do about it. It's just such a boring playstyle.
Once again love the video
I play both sides but avoid survivor if ive been tunneled out a lot in a short period. Its not fun, plain and simple. I just want to get survivor archives done but its not usually possible if im getting out of the game at 5-4 gens. If i have a chase archive then yay, please do tunnel me actually im not bad at looping and youll probably regret it. But Im running out of those and need to participate in other aspects of survivior gameplay. Id call tunneling less toxic (unless the killer is making a show of it like hitting on hook) and more just disappointing/annoying.
Almost 8 years into DBD's lifespan and we're still being harassed and scrutinized both in and outside the game for not following the imaginary survivor rulebook. What the hell is wrong with people
@neonclouds9295 unfortunately almost every dbd player has a built in victim complex when it comes to this game, everything is always the other sides fault reguardless of the situation.
Yes both survivors or killers have their own 'rulebook' they go by, all it takes is to look at this comment section and see how both sides are 100%, entitled and don't actually look at the game objectively for both sides. 😅
@@neonclouds9295you forget it’s 4v1.
the answer is yes
the way u say ada is funny
You gotta look up how to pronounce Ada. The first A is a hard A
It’s how he talks.
Sometimes I "tunnel" people with the intent of trying to FORCE someone else to take the fall or to protect the vulnerable survivor.
I essentially threaten/pressure the unhooked survivor to try and draw out any unhooker or other players to take the chase.
I do this mainly because a LOT of times I see an unhook happens and the unhooker is NOWHERE to be seen. I actually get quite annoyed when this fails and I just end up tunneling a guy out. I've had people moan at me for that and I've always said "blame your teammates, they made NO effort to help you"
exactly! if thats the only info i have and the only person i can find is the one who was just on hook, who is easier to track because they are bleeding all over, i can either ignore them and potentially be throwing the game, or go for them. And if i do go for them and no one even tries to take any aggro, well, sucks for them. And it does suck for that person, its one reason i dont play solo survivor.
I do This too, but instead of hooking, try slugging. This forces somebody to heal them off the ground, this makes 2 people not making gens 3 if you get a chase, and you get free information about at least 1 survivor all this time
I agree with you.
Survivor Mains just need to play more Killer to understand why we do what we do.
And the other way around. Some Killer Players really don't give a flying fuck for how the other Side feels.
@@neonclouds9295play surviver as a solo is miserable this is the reason I main killer I can talkeabout a topic without a spreadsheet on how often I play survivor or killer on a frequent basis
I don't give a flying fuck how survivors feel cuz they dont give a flying fuck how we feel and I've put at least 20 hours into survivor so I have played both sides and I dislike playing survivor it's boring as fuck
@@liandre9035 "why would the killer give a fuck about "feelings"?"
Then go ahead and just play against bots. They will never complain about a thing.
@@liandre9035 "Maybe leave pvp for people like you who just want to argue so they can have their little internet wars with each other."
For somebody, who is so contrarian and vocal in this comment section, you are awkwardly quick to dismiss other opinions as "little internet wars". And labeling everybody as "annoying cry babies" is of course, the number one convenient calling card of every inconsiderate dickhead in existence.
I personally find the notion to play a game, where you specifically interact with others, only to proudly not care about their experience whatsoever, straight up weird .... for reasons, that should be obvious enough.
But then again, some people seem to have a strange sense of pride in being an abrasive edgelord for the mere sake of it .... and then they call others entitled. Which is just next level tone-deaf.
Seriously great video. No bias just straight facts..
The biggest fact is the "survivor induced" bit. Example, if you're a sabo gamer, you should expect me to target you a little more than the other 3. You're literally stopping me from doing the one thing I'm designed to do. So of course I'm going to get you out as early as I can because surprise surprise, I like winning 🤷🏿♂️
Sabo gamer?
@@knightsaber3155 people who play with the intent to sabo hooks when you're trying to hook all game
If survivors can gen rush then I can tunnel, Simple as that. It's 1v4, Even if the killer is stronger the survivors will always be able to get more things done faster than me. Of course this is killer and item dependent, I'm not even gonna touch the pertks side of the whole tunneling debate. If survivors can complete 2 gens while I just got into chase at the beginning of the match I feel tunneling makes the odds even. And of course survivors can counter tunneling by not saving their teammates and doing gens stealthy. They are called survivors, Not super heroes.
If taking one player out as early and aggressively as possible is an optimal strategy to win, that is *absolutely* a game design issue.
Thats not saying killers are doing anything wrong by tunneling, thats BHVR being wrong by making it the best strategy. BHVR should absolutely implement measures to make tunneling *not* the best strategy.
For instance, if we were to modify Dying Light a bit and make it basekit for all killers, that could do wonders for the issue. Something to the effect of "Whenever you hook a survivor, all survivors suffer -2%/3%/whatever% penalty to gen repair speeds, stacking. When any survivor dies, lock in this penalty at its current value."
Or something like that. The point is to make tunneling not the optimal way to win, and players will quit doing it.
Even that wouldn't solve it. Because if you kill one survivor, that is a whopping 25% deduction on everything. Possibly even more, if the eliminated survivor had better understanding of the macro gameplay or was the designated healer.
That's completely unfair and this game would get a lot of hate
@@hiidopovs9871 How do you mean itd be unfair? It might require some rebalancing of certain things, but thats how literally any change works.
The audacity of a bully squad to complain about the way somebody is playing. Squads like that ruin this game for people
Awduh
Nah, on this one we depart. 3 points.
1.Over the years I've tried to get almost everyone to try this game. Of those who enjoyed it, most quit before 200 hours over tunneling/camping/bleed outs. If you get tunneled in like 7 out of 10 games, earning 8k BP and depipping everytime, then having to wait for the game to end, the answer "just get good" or "just grind for perks" isn't cutting it for that player. I think that's a game design issue. Implement a minimum BP gain for survivors who are hooked multiple times, remove depipping, and make OTR a free perk. Fixes some of these issues.
2. Tunneling is counterable and to an extent, balanced. The strategy behind it is lopsided though. The killer can choose to tunnel anytime, but non-SWFs have to rely on the UI, incomplete map markers, and actual guessing to know what to do. In other games we can talk, but DBD loves limiting comms and info. If tunneling is to stay, every player should have the info needed to play around it. At least it'd be more interactive, then.
3. I dislike every discussion of tunneling it's this circular thing of who's at fault or what's proportional or how people cry wolf. Strong killers stacking slowdown and tunneling at 5 gens will insta-win most of their games. Public lobbies aren't built to accomodate them. Even aside from finding tunneling boring, I don't think that's good for the game. That's my issue.
I mean disagreeing with me is fine go for it, by why does your first sentence sound like youre breaking up with me
I want a divorce
I cringe everytime you say Ah-da, it’s Aye-da (Ada Wong)
For real though 💀💀💀 like it’s not hard to say her name?? All I heard was Ah DAh or Oda
he also pronounces Nea "nay" 😭
@blehwhatever4890yeah I said fENG min lol
Aye is pronounced as "eye".. so is that how u pronounce that? Nothing wrong if you do. Just don't make fun of how others say words differently from you
I don't get why survivors get so upset at tunneling. I thought getting chased was the best part of the game. Are they that excited to go and do gens? I guess they don't want to be chased while injured and on their own terms, but you are still being chased which is what everyone calls the best part of the game. Maybe they don't want to die early on but just get better. You're not going to get better at running from the killer sitting on a gen.
The problem is that they want to take chase and loop you forever while gens get cranked. If they keep going down and/or gens arent being worked on, they suddenly dont want to be chased anymore
As a killer i personally only tunnel early on if the survivor is pissing me off in some way and clearly wants attention, then i give it to them.
As a survivor i love being tunneled, means that Instead of holding left click on a gen and doing nothing else i can run the killer around, contribute to the team and maybe finish it early then hell yea i love that.. The chase is the funnest part of the survivor experience... That's why i Tbag killers so that they can focus me whenever possible.
Also i agree with that statement that the fault of tunneling is on the unhooker sometimes... If im a killer and someone unhooks 5 seconds after i hook them, and all i see is the injured person and the unhooker isn't in sight, im chasing the injured.. As you say, im not losing my game for these randoms.
For me, tunneling should be used only if necessary as last resort. Lately, I've had matches where the Survivors pop two gens instantly, thus I've had to go on defense. Especially with SWFs and bully squads. Since Sable's arrival into the realm, Territorial Imperative has been very useful. But back to the topic, I think that you should only tunnel as last resort. Am I wrong?
If you are tunneling on purpose, sure last resort. But if you just happen to be running into the same survs because sally silhouette harry hides all game are born in darkness while barry the gen bomber blows his and freddy face tank's cover every two seconds, then there is no reason to let barry or freddy live. Most of the time the survs that get tunneled do it to themselves. I'll be mid chase of never down ned and round the corner to cut ned off and suddenly I'm smacking terry trips a lot fresh off of two tabs with no idea where terry came from or where ned went. Do I let terry go because I feel bad? Hell no! I'm a hairy hooker... I mean Harry the god damn hooker and terry has two extra holes already and sabrina sky spider is hungry for thrice punctured people punch.
@@6ToesHeACreature So am I 100% wrong or are you agreeing with me?
@@6ToesHeACreature Agreed. I've been playing since September last year, so I am not a high MMR player.
I think the most important part is to stop crying and get better. Sure, when you play Solo tunneling feels bad but when I play with friends its so important to focus on your chase. Make the killer regret that he is trying to tunnel you out of the game and when you friends split up on gens and genrush that killer it doesnt feel bad when you die at the end and your teammates get out. I'm not a fan of tunneling but it feels so good when you try your best and the killer gets only one kill when you did everything right. Because most of the killer who tunnel are just bad at the game and doesn't know how to bring up pressure.
Yeah no say good luck with that for solo survivors. Especially when teammates are allergic to gens. Swf just got it better
@@jaydonarchuleta5691 Thats what I said - it feels really bad when you play solo - but solo always feels bad when your teammates are allergic to gens, the killer doesnt even need to tunnel in that case to make the match horrible.
I find a lot of P50+ survivors accuse me more for tunneling.
But if they run into me and tank a hit after hook ofc im gonna go for them… why would I go for the full health one if they give me the free hit??
Or when the designated runner is mad that I didn’t tunnel them all game and went for the genjokeys (weakest link)
Why would I go for the one I can’t seem to catch when I win if I kill the other 3? And usually the ones that tank gens are not as good at looping.
Win in my book is a 3K (4 is just a bonus) :)
Run away to save yourself after getting unhooked=gets yelled at by teammate for not taking a hit
Takes hit after getting unhooked=gets tunneled
WTF AM I SUPPOSED TO DO BRO THERES NO RIGHT ANSWERS
Youre supposed to tell your teamate to eat shit. Basekit BT is NOT for taking body blocks unless its the end game
@@KaiserDaGaemer I'll keep this in mind big time
It's a huge problem in solo queue. The sweaty killers will go after your dogshit teamates who brought meme perks instead of anti-tunneling stuff and the other three survivors can be comp gods but a 3v1 against a high tier killer with pain res/pop is almost unwinnable.
Otz said it best a while back, (I don't usually parrot content creators but it's still a good point.) To counter tunneling every survivor needs to make a coordinated effort, bring anti tunnel perks, and be decent in chase. It's too much to ask of casual players.
I can get behind an 'invulnerability' timer for Survivors when they got unhooked, but I would have demand one condition, and request another. The demand would be to make it like Sadako's Demanifest so you can walk threw them, so that they can't use that time to body block you -- because they will.
The request is that the feature is canceled after three gens, if for no other reason than -- yes -- Tunneling is actually a strategy that is sometimes needed to pry victory from the Survivors' sweaty, flashlight clicking hands. I wouldn't be too upset in the long term if it didn't get canceled: there'd be the kneejerk response of anger at the decision, but I'd probably get over it after a few games.
@misterpinkandyellow74 that sounds insanely biased. Not every game should end in a 4k.
No.
@@neonclouds9295 killer has been broken for the last year even though mft was a thing for a lot of last year
@@neonclouds9295 this is probably gonna be a massive shock to you, but killer has more powerful stuff than survivor because there's one killer and four survivors. This is an asymmetrical game and that's just basic design.
My code for tunneling (when I do it)
1. Body block for unhooker, your basically asking for it at this point
2. I happen to find you alone, especially if you’re working on a gen. If your with another teammate I’ll go after them but if your alone tough luck
3. Hook sabo build. I hate these survivors, they must be removed from my game
So you tunnel people for playing the game the way its meant to be played?
@@hcctendeep7047 so you get mad at the killer for killing?
There, fixed it for you. I’m not even trying to defend one side over the other, I’m saying this stupid tired argument that survivors use can easily be used against them.
Hes playing the game by tunneling whats ur point @hcctendeep7047
@@hcctendeep7047i mean you can also say that tunneling is just playing the game the way that it's supposed to be played since it's one of the best strategies
@@neonclouds9295I’m not gonna waste 2 perk slots if I try to get a hook and this one sabo gamer keeps sabotaging the hooks you best believe their target number 1 if they are actively preventing me from getting hooks then I must solve the issue which is killing them ie tunneling
Hey sometimes you don't tunnel at 5 gens and lose the match. Sorry you pop 2 gens within a 30 sec chase? I get that tunnel vision.
Insecure comment
@Jenny_Myers Hey, if the opportunity is there, I might as well take it. 🤷♂️
@@Jenny_Myers run anti tunnel 🤷♂️
@Jenny_Myers nothing wrong with being sweaty. It's why sbmm is in the game, right? So I can play with sweats because I'm sweaty, correct?
@@imtheweirdo9377 you proved my point, look how many times you responded
if they went with ur invincibility idea they would have to disable that survivor’s collision for those 10 seconds. also i would absolutely love 12 hooking every game but its just not possible in equal skill matches and some people can’t accept that unfortunately.
Now that we'll opened the discussion of Tunneling; I would like to suggest that if the Killer could see the Survivors Hook Count individually, ironically, that would make it easier for the Killer not to Tunnel when the Killer is actually trying not to do so.
Especially since not having that really just only hinders new players who haven't gotten used to tracking the hook states of the survivors, and neurodivergent players who kinda physically can't- Or, at least, struggle with multitasking so much?
Because literally any good killer main with tens of thousands of hours will be able to just mentally track the hook states of survivors on their own by memorizing who they've hooked, how many times, and taking note when a survivor goes down a hook state while on hook. All making it visible to killers would do, would be opening it up as a feature for all to use, rather than just leaving it exclusive to people like Otzdarva who have trained themselves to do it on their own. It won't really give good killers an advantage, considering it's something good killers would already have- It'd just help new killers, and give killer mains one less unnecessary thing to learn to keep track of.
I think the "people at some point just wanting you to throw the game for them thing" kind of goes hand in hand with people wanting you essentially make sure they are having fun. However, you shouldn't have to play for the other side's fun you should play for your own and that is where some people like to win and winning/playing to win is their way of enjoying the game so if some people don't find that fun to play against then oh well.
Started getting tunneled more when they started putting Prestige numbers next to our names in the lobby :/
Killer's are players too, and deserve to be able to make their points too. Survivors are gaslighters looking for an advantage in everything.
I've been working on an idea for an anti-tunnel mechanic that I'm hoping can alleviate the problem immensely. Any numbers I've put in here aren't concrete and can be tweaked if necessary. I want to know if there are any potential problems for these mechanics because I want to account for anything that could make this problematic (like how the anti-slug was problematic)
The Immunity Status Effect:
- Survivors become "immune" when unhooked
- Immune survivors glow in white when they are immune (like in Dredge's nightfall)
- Immune survivors have no collision with the killer whatsoever, including projectiles and killer lunge
- Survivors lose immunity when they perform a conspicuous action or when the killer hooks another survivor. If the killer hooks a survivor within 15 seconds after a survivor is unhooked, they are granted immunity for 30 seconds (This is to account for hook trades)
- When 2 generators remain, the immune effect is put on a timer of 30 seconds, so the killer has more of a window to tunnel to secure a kill before endgame.
- When the last gen is completed, the immune status effect is disabled for the rest of the trial, leaving only the traditional endurance effect from unhooks.
To help killers with this sort of "play nice" system would be introducing a new base mechanic that I don't have a name for yet, but I'm sure someone can find a cool name for it.
- When a killer hooks a survivor, the survivor with the least amount of hook states will have their aura revealed in yellow. This aura reveal can be programmed differently from traditional aura reading so Distortion rats can't avoid it. This aura remains on the survivor until either the killer is within 32 meters of that survivor or they hook another survivor.
- If multiple survivors have the same number of hook states, then this effect will apply either to a random survivor or the survivor who hasn't been hooked as recent as the other ones.
- If the killer hooks the survivor who was most recently revealed through the yellow aura, then they are granted a stackable 20% blood points per time they successfully hook each yellow aura survivor.
- If this seems too strong if the survivor is unaware of this, then maybe add either a sound cue or something on the HUD to let them know they are potentially next.
Ideally, this could help killers get into chases quicker, and reward them if they can successfully end those chases, while spreading hooks out evenly.
Oh they could just make killers not have collision while carrying a survivor and make survivors have no collision and be immune to basic attacks after being hooked. Solves tunneling and body blocking.
So survs can get one more base kit immunity but the killers would only get vision of another dude a few meters away?
@@liandre9035 That I can understand. However, my problem with hook trades is that the unhooked survivor has little to no agency if the killer decides to tunnel them. Why should they be punished for someone else's mistake?
@@liandre9035 how would the killer be punished? Not only do they have a clear sight of who to chase next, but they can also go for the unhooker who did a bad play to begin with. If anything, the unhooker should be the one punished overall.
@@liandre9035 that's the problem. No one wants to play to get better anymore. It's always optimize, optimize, optimize. It's unfun strategies for the sake of winning almost all of the time. I understand needing to secure a kill the closer it gets to endgame, that's why I added a timer once there are a couple gens remaining. But tunneling at 4-5 gens is just flat out unnecessary because you don't know how the match will go that early on. It's worse for newer players who are playing with more experienced friends who spend more time spectating than playing the game because they are the weak link that got tunneled out early. I've had many friends leave this game because of this "optimal" play style, along with other reasons, because it gets boring after awhile.
I believe There’s a time and a place
Just like any other strategies in the game
Honestly I only tunnel for a couple of reasons
1: If you use basekit bt for body blocking, it’s meant to be an anti tunnel mechanic not a free mettle of man protection hit.
2: If it gets down to 2 gens and I don’t have at least 5-7 hooks.
3: If your teammate unhooks and then leaves, sorry but I have to build pressure and slowdown by hooking and you’re the only one in sight.
4: If you sabo, you’re just annoying like why wouldn’t I tunnel you.
5: If it’s endgame.
6: If you t-bag, you obviously want to be chased if you t-bag.
7: You all switch to one character and all have a flashlight, you’re obviously a swf so ima play dirty.
Am I the only one that feels like basekit BT is good enough? Tunneling is more often than not a Survivor induced problem. Unhooking right next to the Killer, running head on at the Killer to give him a kiss, or knowing the Killer is going to come back so you sit under hook waiting for me to heal you when I have zero stacks of Autodidact. I think it's truly a skill issue, and nothing more.
OTR. It is BY FAR the best perk for you if you have this problem. If you don't use OTR, your complaints about tunneling are void. It's that simple. It's one of the strongest killer strategies if used correctly, there is absolutely no denying that. That's what makes OTR beyond S-Tier. Use it, or never speak of tunneling.
Omg I too am still in my infancy of killer and ghostface is also my number 1. Love it!! Lol I always tell people hey I just go for whoever is in front of me. If I'm within range of the hook still and they pull within range then yeah I'm circling back towards hook to see if they are healing under hook if they aren't I'll use my bbq knowledge and go elsewhere. But! If someone insta pulls off hook and then that unhooked survivor body blocks with endurance sure now you're right in front of me I'm going for the down. Usually USUALLY I'll let them stay slugged. Lol but if I can't find someone I'll just go back to where I know people are. The hook. Also if I find someone new and they are juicer survivors I'll drop chase when I know I am not qualified. I'll go find the weaker links. I'm also at that phase of killer where p100's scare me so I won't dodge the lobby but I will target them if I can early on. That's a me thing I'm working on lol p100's still scare me hahahaha
I almost tunneled a guy a few days ago.
Got him hooked twice, then downed. They had 0 gens done. And I realized this guy had been screwed over by his teammates. So I let him wiggle free on purpose. He ended up being the last alive and I let him have hatch
The fact that Borrowed Time is now basekit for survivors only means that tunneling has been dealt with and survivors have zero right to complain about tunneling.
Also, bully squads are going to bully. I'm sorry that they took it further than the usual bully squads, but seriously, fuck those guys. They are the reason that DBD is so toxic right now.
I dont understand why some group would want to bully the killer expecting a salty killer, then those same players get salty about tunneling.. like... If you're gonna bully the killer, dont complain if they outsmart you turning the salt around
Great video, i think 1 thing that was missed however is the toxic tunneler. I cant confirm this 100% but worth saying im a claud main and i have had probably 5-81 games recently where i have been tunneled from min 1 relentlessly until death. Then the killer suddenly has a change of heart and is friendly to the other survs. Only recently i began to think does this have a hidden racist motivation. Im white too so that isnt usually in my thoughts but since i did think about it i cant get it out of my head haha!
In my view, tunneling is only a problem when the killer clearly came into tunnel. There is nothing you can do at that point. I have tunneled players out in games I have played, both intentionally and unintentionally. I am photosensitive so when I get a bully survivor that is constantly trying to flashlight me, I will tunnel them out. And honestly, if you are a bully survivor, imo, you should expect to be tunneled. There are a lot of anti-tunnel perk already in the game.
I think slugging is often more problematic than tunneling personal. But, it is also part of the game and sometimes the only way for a killer to win.
if the hooked survivor interacts with the killer after the unhook (basically not running away to heal/do gens), its not tunneling anymore
Focusing a survivor and tunneling are different things. Tunneling is three hooking someone to the exclusion of anyone else. Focusing someone is noticing at three gens that these geks are popping too quick, and you gotta take out whoever has already been hooked most. Any bitching about focusing should not be taken seriously.
Had an experience very similar with Myers on Yamaoaka Estate. Ended up having to bleed three of the four out. They never touched a single gen, they did nothing but flashlight and head on.
I've always thought the devs went in the wrong direction with camping,tunneling,slugging, etc. I think they should make it a fair way to still use instead of shunning them and encourage them to use them
When i joined as a brand new person, those were some of the best tactics as i had not read on any of the forums, so i was blind to the "survivors rule book for killer" and i could use these tactics to win i wasnt reliant on them but it did help to have. But after i found out that ppl disliked that, i stopped using them altogether and started losing a lot more to really good survivors as i no longer had ways to bring back unfavorable matchups that i could have won if i decided to slug a bit harder (i liked to slug someone and use them as bait by hiding close by while cloaked as wraith) or tried to buy myself some time and maybe one or two more hook states by camping a hook to get survivors to get off gens and bring them to me or if i had tunneled out that good looper or weak link of the team at three gens instead of 2
0:39 "Aah-duh" 😂
THEY'VE BEEN SAYING /ADA/!? THIS WHOLE TIME?! I was like 'Who tf is ah-duh'...
Honestly, I don't care who I'm going after. If I go around the map and I see someone's injured, I'm going after the injured person even though I just hooked them.
This video sums up my experience with tunnelling the amount of rage messages I get on PS5 for tunnelling when majority of the time they ran into me is ridiculous but also quite funny to see people moan at me constantly
Play how you want as long as you're not cheating, I'm a survivor main. There are anti tunneling and anti camping perks.
As someone who plays both sides, I'd say tunneling directly off hook at 4 or 5 gens is the only time it irritates me
If tunneling is toxic, body blocking is toxic. They're both intended mechanics of the game that help one side.
I doubt tunneling is intended, since the developers regurarily add perks and mechanics to encourage people to target different survivors over the one you just hooked. The developers clearly don’t want people to tunnel. Body blocking however has multiple perks that encourage it
Tunneling is a great strat. Pick the weakest link and get them out so they have less resources
Playing killer I love tunneling. Playing survivor I hate it. Not strange is it?
As a killer main, I see your point. However, you can't deny that tunneling at 5 gens is a powerful strategy. too powerful even. As you said, a dead player is the best slowdown you can get. if you get it early, the game becomes a downhill battle. It's strategically sound, but utterly ruthless. In other words, it's a broken strat.
Furthermore, you're point about perks is flawed. In order to fully prevent a tunneling, you need every player to run an anti tunneling perk. if even one of them doesn't, the killer can just tunnel that player.
Tunneling at 5 gens is only a ppwerful strategy if you can successfully down the person. If not it does nothing but cost you the game.
Furthermore my point about perks isnt flawed because if the person getting tunneled has anti tunneling perks then they are just wasting more time than normal. Which leads into the first point of tunneling at 5 gens isnt as good as people think it is.
Gens only take 90 seconds man, without toolboxes, greatskill checks or perks, the avg chase lasts 30 seconds. If you can extedn that by even a little bit then the killer has lost the game because they over commited
Idk, I like to tunnel, it’s fun as well as slugging. There’s nothing in the game that says I can’t
Yeah thats fine, Its just not necessarily fun for all parties. Survivors need to stop taking it personally but its still demotivating getting hooked three times in a row before anyone else
@@simonlalonde4136 will you play with me?
There's nothing in the game says you can't shit your pants, but for some reason you don't do that
@@feilkate5892 if the game doesn’t stop me, I’m doing it 🤷♂️
You need to get good
I think I get tunneled 2 to 3 times a month.
I think it loses you the game and more so worse for you to do
Dead hard and off the record are completely worthless when killers always hit u right after you get unhooked. They are not anti-tunnel and neither is trash bag decisive strike
U seam very kind for a dbd player
This has nothing to do with the meat of the video, is there is a reason you say "Ah-da" instead of "Ayy-da" just wondering lol
its just the way I talk
@@KaiserDaGaemer Fair enough!
Best part about the tunnelling discussion is when complaining about "being tunnelled at 5 gens" which either the survivor is so bad that they go down like flies, the unhooks are ultra fast and unsave or survs are literally not doing gens. If you do the math if it comes to 1 person out at 5 gens it is on the surv 100% of the time, either partially not contributing or sucking, and with no reason to playing fair (because bhvr after years has yet to implement an actual incentive to go for multiple ppl) why wouldnt the killer capitalise?
but who is Odda?? I'm still confused...
It’s Ada Wong
I do agree with every point you just said, and when we talk about survivor enduces tunnelling, I wanted to bring up 2 scenarios of survivors enduce tunnelling where a survivor brings 2 different perk combos one is being a Distortion and Calm Spirit gamer and the other one is the FTP and Buckle Up user,
The Distortion and Calm Spirit gamer it mainly boils down to Distortion, cuz your looking for a survivor with BBQ and chili but you cannot find the Distortion gamer and you end up tunnelling the person that just got off hook 30 seconds ago and then it happens again and again and again, and your basically just forced to tunnel someone cuz their hiding their aura cuz the one that hides their aura is terrible in chase and he wants to escape through hatch by just hiding and letting their teammates die.
Buckle Up+FTP on the other hand, killers catch one of these little shits using the most busted and broken combo, they tunnel the player that has the combo just so they don't ever pull off the combo in their faces again.
It’s Ay-Dah bro w vid though 😭
I'm used to being tunneled, because sometimes I understand that it's the most logical thing, killer can do in some situations. They are at 2 gens, and there is only one person who was hooked twice. And the unhooker was never hooked at all. Wo it's logical for killer to target someone dead on hook.
But my friend, who I constantly play with, truly believes, that if you tunnel, then you simply bad at the game. You don't know how to pressure everyone equally, so you target weak link instead of learning how to play killer properly
dead hard is literally a free perk every survior can spend blood points on to have as an anti tunnel perk, and as an unhooker you can bring bowwered time which can mess with killers who count down the endurance timer off hook, making the unhooked survior safer over all. And again, the best anti tunnel the team can bring is gen rushing. I cant count the amount of times ive played solo q, only to either be tunneled, have a team mate who is being tunnneled, and the ENTIRE team is trying to get flashlight saves, sabo saves, and body blocks, and no gens are being progressed execpt maybe one. Again, rushing gens hurts the killer for tunneling. Its fine if one other survior is there to help out and get saves and body block, but when you have two or three of them....the match stalls and the killer gains easy pressure
3:14 I wouldn’t even call that stupid… well ok it is pretty stupid. but beyond that, it’s just called a chase. The killer threw the game for a 5 gen chase lol
I agree, they should change the base kit endurance to just remove collision/interaction so that they can’t get hit by the killer for 10s
this reminds me of the hot take that said “casual” players complain about camping, tunneling, and slugging infinitely more than comp players. It’s actually kinda funny how true that is 😂
tunneling is a problem unless ur 4men sadly thats how it is. randoms gets tunneled and downed in 2 taps, if u build a build to save randoms then u will throw the game by not doing gens etc. ofc u will win games, but lets be honest, u have a lot of cheesy ways to win as a killer. feels bad for soloq players which are majority in the game, game currently is balanced around 4men, and just because some people that play comp use 1 perk slot each doesnt mean that is much weaker than 4 second chances perks, and it goes the same for the killers, if killer use 4gen perks but cant down people quick then they will lose the game anyway, some chase perks can solve that issue tho, game is very situational, around the highest levels a good killer can beat a good team, same opposite, dont buy into those people who think that if every1 have dh and off the record then thats the only viable option, trust me a comp billy/blight/nurse/spirit/huntress etc, can still demolish comp teams even if they were stacked with the best items/perks. both sides have them broken stuff to use. both sides are restricted in comp games, the idea of using 1 perk each can make games unpredictable for killers which can cause them to lose games which they would normally win if they expected everyone to run the same perks lol. tunneling will always be a problem for casuals tho and majority are casuals, i will give u an idea, find a good team to play with often, the moment u do, u will gain mmr quickly, then u will drop the games with ur team and go for soloq games, now that ur in soloq ur mmr is still high, u will get better killers but shity teams and u will notice how shit the game is, because if u want to have fun with friends u will gain mmr then u will be screwed if u soloq, mostly if u want to play soloq if u want and some people wont care, but many would. u will find tunneling an issue when u will be the one that is getting 2 tapped by blights with iri tags. lol
The invulnerability would help against tunneling the best we don't need no more second chance perks 😂. OTR, dh, ds and adrenaline together can extend chases by 2-3 mins so if the survivors don't like tunneling then there's your build. Yes they shouldn't be forced to use the perks but players can say that about killers that they shouldn't be forced to use gen perks. But ye invulnerability would work the best but I would berf OTR to 40 seconds so survivors don't get fre distance or try to take a body block hit and I would disable invulnerability at endgame
Yea most of the time when I get tunneled I‘m not mad at the killer, I‘m mad at my teammates. Because tunneling actually has counterplay. If you play against a coordinated team and you start tunneling someone, they will do everything in their power to make you not succeed at that. But survivors not being coordinated is just another soloQ issue…
Tbh as killer I tunnel cause sometimes as u said it happens cause bad choice on survivors end or no other option. Playing survivor I remember my fourth game playing and the doctor I was against was coming after me chasing me right after unhooked and I left the hook to heal as he saw teammates chase for five seconds then left quick to find me at 5 gens it happens
When I get tunneled as surv I’m a killer main so I can’t get mad when I understand why they’re tunneling, it’s never malicious, they need pressure, 3 gens and only hooked me and needs that out, or I was unhooked in their face which is asking for me to get farmed so I never get mad at tunneling at most maybe slightly annoyed but I get it
If they were to add the invincibility off hook then it should have no collision with the killer otherwise people will just body block the killer off hook. But I totally agree with what you say in this video. Tunneling isn’t this cardinal sin people make it out to be😅. I personally don’t do it because i value the happiness of other people but there is nothing wrong with tunneling to win or tunneling as a whole. There are systems in place to help you, perks that can make it harder to tunnel, loops to run around etc. Sure you might be injured off hook but that’s no different then playing against for example plague, or legion (if you are smart enough to not heal). Being injured should not be a deathsentence for you (for me it is because i suck 😅, but i know that so I don’t complain about tunneling)
I usually get 6 hooks about before I kill someone but I also see something inherently wrong that killers like hillbilly immediately wait to go to the hook and tunnel out. I wish the game would wait five seconds to notify when someone’s unhooked(as a oni,bubba, and artist main)
I agree with everything you just said. I think invulnerability would be great if the killer could walk through the surviver so they can't body block.
I dont normally tunnel, but when 2 gens pop in the first 30 seconds and I just got done being bully-squaded the last game?
TUNNELMAINA BROTHER! What you gonna DOOO? When my Oni's 56 inch pythons come for YOUUU, Brother??
I would accept the invulnerability only if joints with a intangible effect where the survivor can't body block
DS after it’s impending buff + inner strength + unbreakable + soul guard
to be fair getting tunneled by omega nurse back in the day with map offering was pretty toxic, not that i cared. but it kinda wasnt fun for nobody lmao
Video about tunneling with Nemessis on the miniature? Hmm...
I still stand by basekit ds but not as strongly as before i think we need to do it in a ptb to how it will effect the game otherwise I think as well as invulnerability you should get a 50% haste for 10 sec instead of 10% haste that way you can get even further but if they did this they would either need to remove it interlay in end game or at least the invulnerability
The current weak ds would be nice to have as basekit. Help give solo survivors a tiny bit more time to waste for the killer before going down again.
I said this in Mr headaches chat the other day but I think they should add the no collision thing like u said make it where survivors cant abuse so they can’t body block and if u touch a gen or heal u know it goes away there would be no literally way to tunnel at that point and if the killer waits it out it should kinda be near off the record time so they would legit throw the game would need tweaking but I think they could make it work lmk what y’all think
@@misterpinkandyellow74 maybe going against swf but they usually throw the game anyway trolling the killer and I wouldn’t say solo Q is survivor sided by no means just my thoughts
@@misterpinkandyellow74 u saying the game is survivor sided has nothing do for balance if your killer sided that really doesn’t help on how to balance the game
I say all the time if a survivor is always whining and complaining about being tunneled it’s most a issue on the survivor side I’ve gotten so many DMS from survivors because I so called tunneled when in reality they got outplayed and just need to get better and also when i tunnel a survivor majority of the time I do it because either 2 reasons they’re getting gens completed at light speed or I’m doing it because it’s a strategy not to be toxic survivors are just whiny babies and BHVR constantly panders to them
@@neonclouds9295 it’s the same difference 🤣
@@neonclouds9295 DMS stands for Direct Messages it’s more of a quicker way of saying direct messages like a shortcut that’s all
When is camping next ?
Yes
Yes ,yes it to a certain degree
Nope it’s a strategy
0:53 correction
you can again
you know its bad when you are forced to equip perks against it and even those perks either arent strong enough due to the killer or cuz of the design itself being poorly made,
or dont equip and lose
Well...no. like the entire point of perks is to enhance your abilties within the game.
If tunneling was a product of bad design Id agree with you but its not. Its a product of win conditions. You equip perks to help counter the win conditions of the opponent or help you be stronger and have advantages.
You can always just learn how to loop better. Thats a viable counter to tunneling. If the killer cant catch you, they cant tunnel you.
Is it sometimes completley out of your control? Sure but what is ALWAYS in your control in this game. Your own actions being the only thing.
Its fine killers are forced into running slow down, swings and roundabouts
Skill issues
yeah my arguement is thats how the game is made... its like saying in chess on you cant take my piece even though stratigically you would be winning but it would be toxic like it doesnt make sense it is just a dbd specific problem tbh
Needs new modes man 1 v 4 so tiring now, from tunneling to gen rushing, to face camping is to bully squad annoying ass he'll to me