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@@vinesthemonkey I understand where the question is coming from, but it makes me sad that people have to doubt whether a reviewer has morals. You can watch any of my reviews and you can tell me whether you think I'm telling the truth or not. I only make money off of products I like - that's been a dream business model of mine, instead of being pigeonholed into one company, doing sales for products/services I don't believe in. I have videos where I straight up tell you when the product is bad (one of my videos is called "Don't Buy These Chairs", another is the Branch Verve, and I did a standing desk comparison video where I straight up showed why a desk I could make a ton of money from, is bad). My best chair under $200 has 5 chairs that I straight up say don't buy (they cost me a total of $1,000!). Anyways, you decide who you want to believe!
As a fresh graduated designer student, i think (i would say i'm sure, but i always let the door open) that another reason why those chairs cost so much is, in one word, the investment. Take a recent high price chair, the cosm from herman miller: if i'm not mistaken they studied and produced prototypes for this chair for 7 years before launching it on the market; or the embody also, they designed it with the help of 20+ doctors, researchers, oculists, physiotherapists and more... so at the end of the chain, the buyer pays for all the studies and all the investments that the company made on that chair (on the opposide side, if you think about it, all those "gaming" chairs that cost 500$ at max, come out like mushrooms every year, but they are always pretty much the same, basically a racing seat with some added padding here and there... less research and investments, lower final price).
You know, im sitting in an old DX racer chair i had in storage because my IKEA Markus is making my lower back hurts. And you know what? This DX Racer at least doesnt make my lower back hurt even though its a very hard chair to sit in. Maybe these gaming chairs are somewhat ergonomic although comfort leaves a lot to be desired.
i actually make very little money but my expenses are also low and i bought an embody gaming -to your first reason: it's the first chair i've used in 30 years that hasn't made my bony butt hurt no matter how long i sit in it. for someone that sits at my computer for many hours this was life changing - to your second reason: the 12 year warranty is awesome - to your third reason: the reputation of herman miller and the price i paid (even if it's slightly inflated for psychological reasons) gives me peace of mind knowing that i probably got the best possible chair i could
I’m glad you addressed the “cushion” they add to the price to maximise their profits. Manufacturing costs for these chair are significantly lower than people think they are. The argument about “it’s cheaper than back surgery” although valid still allows these companies to overcharge and take advantage of peoples fears, same as the supplement industry. In US and UK chairs can be 5 times the price as abroad just because they know they are willing to pay that.
Still no reply, that's what I thought. You don't know a single thing about the manufacturing processes involved in the making of high end office chairs, especially with the critical R&D that comes before it. The cushion argument is a moot point, especially since chairs like the Leap v2 have a far longer lasting seats than any cheap chair on the market. You also seem to completely forget about where these high end office chairs are manufactured, because they're not made in China.
Well 12 year warranty and the fact that so many people buy these after they've been used in the office for a decade and they still work great is another reason, have you ever bought a 10$ staples chair that used to cost 100$? Probably not, because it was garbage. So if you think about how many chairs you may buy within 12 years too, that's also a factor.
Yes they are a bit more expensive but no where near what you say. Take México, they are only about 150 usd more. Heard Perú/Brasil aren't that much more than US price (somewhat yes but not that much). So your reply doesnt hold any fundamentals
I've had my Embody for a year now and it has cured my back pain, coming from a gaming chair. I think another great thing about these chairs is that they don't necessarily degrade over time and keeps a high resale value if you decide to not keep it a few years from now.
Purchased the Logitech Embody. No, I’m not rolling in the money over here, but working from home takes a completely different toll on your body. While some people are fine in whatever other chair, the DX Racer I had for 3 years was poor choice for a 40 hour work week. Was it fine for a playing games a couple hours a week? Sure. WFH for over year? Dear god no. I spent more at the chiropractor’s office (with good insurance, might I add) than the cost of the chair. My chiro confirmed a lot of my pain was due to sitting for extended periods of time / chair choice / & other factors. To clarify, he made no suggestions on a new chair, only to opt for an ergonomic one. I get it’s hard for people to understand why some of the chairs costs are expensive but it’s an investment. Can also vouch that HM’s customer service is nothing short of stellar. I appreciate this video & the other ones I’ve seen on this channel - thank you for sharing! Anyone who has doubts should just visit a showroom & see for themselves. 🤷🏻♀️
I wanna chime in with something I have learned after buying a used Aeron a couple of years ago. Whilst it does make it soooo much easier to get into and stay in a proper posture, it does not automatically fix back pain. Although slouching is not as comfortable as it would be on other chairs, it still is very much possible and I still have to unlearn all the years of mastering slouching. Exercise (!!!) helps drastically to improve posture and mitigate back pain, I would argue in my case much more than any of these chairs. In a nutshell, just be weary to have realistic expectations from your office chair. It can be a great improvement to your life, but that improvement does not need to come automatically and instantaneously...
Absolutely right. These chairs are meant to support your back and not let it get worse, instead of fixing any issues you already may have. The ppl who usually have unrealistic expectations from these chairs are 9/10 times are just offended by the price and want to find any reason to criticise it. I didn't buy an Aeron to magically fix my back pain, I'd have gone to a chiropractor for that lol.
@Ahnestly I solved my back pain mostly by ramping up on vitamin D3 (10K UI daily and always with K2), improving my overall health and circulation, sticking with olive oils for all dressings and cooking, no fried foods (other than in light olive oil), cutting out all sugars and most starchy carbs, and most of all, only eating things that naturally grow, walk, or swim (i.e., whole, real foods from the earth). I spent my 30's in constant severe back pain, have been taken out of my home on a stretcher, and back surgery only marginally helped. Even after surgery, I still always woke up incredibly stiff and it took hours to stand up straight and move around normally. If I ever overworked my back, I was out for a week, and I never noticed it until the next day after overstressing it. Now, 20 years later, I can do whatever I want, never take any meds of any sort, and I'm totally pain free and with a lot more flexibility. Have a look at Dr. Berg's videos on back pain. It changed my life.
Just the other day, I went to test out some Herman Miller chairs and as I sat in each one I realized that none of them really felt all that different from one another. They were all generally comfortable and I was kind of surprised and also let down. I suppose I was hoping to notice more differences that would make selecting the right chair form me, more clear, but it wasn't so. Now I'm seriously considering just buying an ordinary chair from Costco to replace my old beat up one. The price of the Herman Millers was also crazy and just made me think, "Man, what am I even paying for?" So yea... I would like to try out some Steelcase chairs though, like the Gesture for the Arm Package it has, but apart from that and a good headrest and recline, I think I'm pretty good.
That warranty is a big part of the expense. I have a Steelcase Gesture and 8 months into ownership the head rest popped off on one side. I contacted Steelcase and within a week a brand new chair was on my doorstep. They told me to keep the old one and do whatever I wanted with it, keep it, donate it, trash it. I kept it and later found a repair manual online and fixed the "broken" one in about 15 minutes. So my initial investment has actually paid for 2 chairs, and shipping on both. Shipping is NOT trivial on these, they come fully assembled and the box is HUGE. They are also VERY heavy. The cost of these is fully justified imo, maybe painful for most folks, but if you can afford one it's worth it.
Great points. The ppl who call these chairs "overpriced" don't seem to understand that cheaper chairs lack quality, and the companies who sell them don't offer full coverage on their warranties.
Very well said. I wrestled with buying a more expensive chair for a while. I work remote though and often game in my chair after work so I spend a lot of time in it which translates to a lot of wear & tear, that's one area you didn't really mention (kind of alluded to it with the phone example though); budget/cheap chairs don't have the same build/material quality (or, more importantly, lifespans) as these high-end chairs so you can easily end up running through enough budget chairs, over the 12 years that the warranty represents, to equal or surpass the cost of one of these more expensive chairs (I had one budget chair die in a year and the other seriously started degrading after just 6 months; if we say they last an average of a year then 12 chairs at ~$150 equals $1800.. 👀). P.s. I actually made the decisions to buy one (am sitting in it now) after finishing up my research then watching some of your reviews (and your videos about the upcoming headrest from Atlas)
@@samuri7185 I got the Harmen Miller Gaming Embody; Herman Miller is doing a big sale (25% their gaming chairs) so it made it a lot easier to pull the trigger. And Ahnesty has a video about an upcoming 3rd party Headrest for it (he actually has a prototype installed on the Gaming Embody chair in this video, the blue backed one), probably wouldn't have gotten this one if the headrest wasn't coming out (a bit too tall for it otherwise). It's crazy comfortable though : )
@@Ahnestly Definitely, thanks for the great vids! I don't know if you've done or considered it but any experience/s you've had with these companies (especially in regards to warranty claims but anything in the realm of customer service really) could potentially make a good video (one that'd likely be very useful to potential buyers); just a thought! Thanks again : )
Cuz it's actually surprising expensive to make quality stuff and for people to care about build quality. Also you can spend like 1k on a chair today, and use it for 20 years and sell it for 250.
yes thats the point.. the money is not lost instantly. and think about the money and time spend for owning multiple crappy chairs as well in the meantime.
I am wondering if you'll ever check out the Hinomi H1 PRO? It seems like a very nice mid range chair with a bunch of features that no other chairs have.
I'm literally about to buy an Aeron right now, was doing some last minute research. I keep talking myself out of it but with this sale, it's probably the best time to do it.
Nice! Please consider using my link! Helps the channel a LOT! Let me know how it goes! Also, you may want to hold off until Friday...I have a shiny new mesh chair that I'm reviewing that I think is the best mesh chair on the market.
@@Ahnestly Well it's a bit late for the shiny one I'm afraid lol I did use your link in the description though. I've had my eye on this for a really long time, unless it really dissapoints me for some reason, I think I'll be happy. I will watch the review though just so I can second guess myself haha
@@ruffastoast8570 HAHA i love it. My channel slogan should be "Creating mass chair FOMO since 2019". Thank you for using my link and supporting the channel. Means the world to me!!
@@sonderevokingbuns It's very pricy, especially with the Black Friday sales going on, I'd think it would be cheaper over there. I can get one for £1130 over here in the UK, which is a bargain, considering that it usually sells for £1496.
@@sonderevokingbuns I'm talking about a brand new one from an authorised dealer/directly from HM's online store. Of course I can also find a much cheaper one from other places, although it's a lot rarer here, since we don't see many big offices go out of business that often.
I received my Embody monday this week, I’m still in the honeymoon phase it’s a dream to si on it every day !!! One of the best investment I made for myself.
Can you test the new Knoll Newsom Task Chair? It’s been getting a lot of attention in the design circle and is meant to compete with the likes of the Aeron! Thanks!
Whether HM's office chairs are worth it or not, what doesn't do them any favours is the Eames lounge chair. That thing is outrageously priced and costs around what some people make in an entire year. And personally, I didn't even find it that comfortable. It feels like that chair's main purpose is its vintage look and being a symbol of wealth. When HM's selling something like that right beside $2000 office chairs, it's easy for someone to look at it and think they're just spending money on a name, rather than a quality product.
Wow, this is really insightful. I made a video on the Eames lounge chair a while back comparing it to some replicas that I was asked to remove, and I had the same impression. The blind test we made on my other channel is still up though! th-cam.com/video/NoNXdIkhyjo/w-d-xo.html
Eames has a very interesting history, it was never intended to be a lounge chair that is a symbol of wealth. But with how cheap manufacturing has become, largely thanks to factories in China, a lot of traditional products are ridiculously more expensive nowadays.
i appreciate your videos. it has helped me choose a chair i want for gaming and so far its aeron vs embody.. but most likely embody.. im 300lbs weightlifter 5 10"
Now that I work from home, and make gaming videos, I'm ALWAYS sitting throughout the day! Wrestled for a year about getting the Gaming Embody. After seeing this sale, which is the biggest I ever seen, I decided to cough up the money and get it. It's coming Monday. Looking forward to it as I ALWAYS hear good things. If it's a worthy investment for my back, then I can't complain. Used your link too my friend 💪🏾
@@jcortes1791 absolutely love it! Don't get me wrong, as much as I hate the price on the chair lol it is a very good one. I will say however, because I'm 5'7 it's very comfortable for me. I can't speak on the ones who are in the taller category. All in all though, definitely a good product if you have the funds for it
These are probably the best 3 chairs on the market. That saying they're still incredibly overpriced and it's the obvious choice to buy them used for half the price on Facebook
My $550 DxRacer gaming chair broke 2 times in 2 years, with INSANELY difficult fixes and a crummy warranty I was left fixing it myself, sweating every time, banging loud hammers trying to get the base off, etc. I got a new one and it broke 2 times in the next 2 years, also. F "gaming" chairs, man. I want that12 year warranty, that's why I'm paying so much. That's why I'm getting Herman Miller, so the technicians can do the fixes if it breaks, because fixing your broken chair SUCKS.
I love my Herman Miller Embody chair but will admit that my secret lab titan chair and a third of the price is 95% is good. However, for absolute 100% perfection go with one of these three aforementioned brands.
@@Prxsumo The Titan is regarded as the best gaming chair on the market, although I consider the Interstuhl Backforce to be far superior, but the Embody is on a different level. It's not built in China, the design is backed by years of ergonomic research and it's truly unique.
nice vid. my brain just cannot process the comparison between something with electricity, batteries, internet, silicon, wifi, gps, a screen, speakers etc with something you only just sit on top of. its not a fair comparison imo and thus shouldn't be priced comparatively
Good point! I had another section that I decided to scrap last minute but maybe I should have kept it in. It was basically that in addition to phones, many of us also have laptops, which overlap a LOT in functionality with a phone, and if laptops cost $1,000 and we upgrade every 5 years, then we spend almost $4,000 every 12 years. And often times, we don’t need the upgraded hardware (if you did, you’re spending MUCH more than $4k), just that our stuff breaks. So now compare that to $1,800 for a chair you’ll use for at least 12 years!
No doubt a phone has cutting edge tech packed into a very small footprint and can do so many things, but the pricing of a high end office chair is dependent on other factors. Yes, you can only sit on a chair, but clearly there are only a handful of chairs that you can sit on for 8+ hours a day and not be in pain. It's also about the longevity and guarantee that any issues with the product itself can be taken care of. Many cheap office chairs fail to tick all the boxes and often have some sort of compromise to accept.
Really struggling to find a chair for me. Every chair seems to fall short in some term. HM Embody seems to come close, but the non-adjustable lumbar support and the weird armrest adjustion makes me doubt it. Maybe for a next "best chairs for you" episode: I'm a bit taller than 180cm, weight shifts between 90 and 110kg (yea, ik lol). I like (aggressive?) adjustable lumbar support as i suffer from back pain and bad posture. Vertical and horizontal adjustment would be a ++++. I have a very broad frame and feel like a turtle in a way too small shell in racing chairs (my shoulders do not even remotely fit in there) I want the chair to adjust to my setup, not the other way round, so armrest adjustment is fairly important I sometimes go ergonomic rebel mode, though only "one leg over the other", never crosslegd I would want a headrest but from the reviews it seems every headrest is pretty much trash (looking at BTODtv) and i am not able to get an atlas headrest in Germany. I never sat on a high quality mesh chair, but my impression from 200-300€ mesh chairs is that mesh isnt as comfortable as other materials, so i'd like "classic" cushioning (i guess?). But I'm a sweater so i'd be ready to try high quality mesh. I sit in my chair between 10 and 12 hours a day (full time job + self employment). I dont care about budget, but would like a recommendation for different budgets, because: buying a 300€ chair every 3 years averages to roughly the same when buying a 1500€ chair every 12 years. So a recommendation for a 400-800, and another one for anything above would be nice. Steelcase, autonomous, haworth and Herman Miller seem to be available. The Fern v1 (so without the newer digital knit) seems to be around 800-1100€ here. Oh and my name is Andre. Currently sitting in a 13 year old (bought from a very light individual) steelcase leap that doesnt have 4D armrests and the 2d armrests really annoy me. It also doesnt have the lumbar support inlay and without it it seems the lumbar support isnt aggressive enough, or in other words: the upper back portion pushes more forward than the lower back portion, which feels sooo weird. And the lumber support is a few hairs too low + the seating pad being a few mm too short in the back.
Sounds like the gesture would be really good for you. Crazy arm rests, nice backrest sloping to allow shoulder movement, comfy foam seat, aggressive lumbar, and an actually decent headrest. Highly recommend. Also, the fern might be nice too, and at 180 you might not need a headrest on the fern with its high back. But seriously try out the gesture, sounds like a top fit for you imo.
Hey. You should try some german brands. The Internet is full of reviews of american brands, but there are some pretty good ones in germany (maybe even better than the usual mentioned in the US chair influencer videos). You have to try haider bioswing (360 or above) and sedus. Also have a Look at dauphin, they are a bit cheaper than the ones mentioned before. Wilkhahn and löffler should be mentioned here too. Good luck finding one thats suits your needs :)
Thanks for the reviews, the Chairs are OK but I really think they are geared toward the office as opposed to the home, hence the inflated prices... Guess I'll keep looking, perhaps more in the direction of Secret Labs Titan or something similar.
Have you actually tried any of these chairs out? If you're not planning on working/gaming for long sessions at a time, then any chair will do, otherwise you're going to feel the pain.
@@pip5461 Inflation is the real killer, so many of these high end office chairs weren't that expensive prior to the pandemic. I wouldn't recommend buying a single gaming chair for long work sessions, they're nothing more than a silly gimmick. The smart thing to do would be to pick up a refurbished chair from any of the top brands, but it's your choice lol.
I wouldn't be surprised if half the price is the cost of the 12-year warranty and the free shipping and return shipping if you were to return after the trial period. We all know free shipping is not really free, It's already factored into the price of the item. The fact that these chairs come fully assembled in large boxes, the shipping, and possible return shipping can't be cheap.
Quick question I am thinking between fern (1160 euros) and embody (1560 euros). I am more leaning toward fern because I am 188cm (6ft 2") and fern's backrest is higher. But only thing that I hate and when I tried in saloon is 4d armrests. They didn't hold position quite well. I don't know is it like that because it was show room example and it was beaten by customers. But what is your experience with armrests? If that is something that would be a problem I would in that case take additional financial hit but I am afraid that embody's backrest is not high for by upper back.
Been in the market for a new office chair ever since I started working from home and that is how I found your channel. It seems most sites do not offer the "high" backed Embody, did they do away with it (I'm 6'1", narrow shouldered, overweight (250lbs))? Does the Embody support my fat as*?! I used to think $500 was a lot but buy once, cry once. Also, I wish I only spent $500 on a new phone...
Hi Dan, I watched almost all of your Videos and i really want buy one, but i cant decide what to buy. Can you give me your opinion maybe. I am 178 cm tall and i weigh around 65kg. I can buy a fully loaded embody for 1230€ a fern with no headrest and no lumbar for 799€ and a gesture without headrest for 869€ and with headrest for 970€. Do you think the embody is worth the plus 450€ investment, or should i just get a Fern or a Gesture. And btw i am from germany and steelcase only gives 5 years Warranty.
Hi! It's hard to tell what would be best for your needs. For me personally, and a lot of folks, the Embody is the best, followed very closely by the Fern.
@@Ahnestly I sit almost every day between 5-7 hours sometimes more. And i just found a new aeron remastered size b fully loaded with leather armpads for 1270€. Maybe the aeron would be better for me ? I have lower back pain and sometimes shoulder pain. When i go to sleep i feel the pain even more. I really want chair that does help with my back problems and doesnt waste money. I know that the herman miller keeps his value much more especially in germany and has a better warranty. Would you say the aeron is a safer pick than the embody? For some reason the aeron is more expensiv than the embody here in germany.
I've got a Balance Embody and the gaming Sync Embody, but if you want a headrest, which is coming early 2023 by a company called Atlas Headrest (I've made a few videos on it), I highly recommend you go with one of the following, because these are the ones that are guaranteed to get a match! Sync - Black, Nightfall, Dark Carbon, Medley - Pewter, Charcoal, Khaki, Blueberry Rhythm - Black Balance - No guarantees Hope this helps! If you decide to pick up, please consider using my links and use the code for an extra 5% off! Helps the channel a LOT! Let me know what you choose!!!
Yeah this is the toughest question. My wife loves the gaming, and I like the regular! But I find the gaming comfortable as well. Tbh, I would go for gaming bc you’re getting an extra $180 off right now on it and it’s guaranteed to get a matching headrest when it comes out!
Hey Dan your SteelCase code doesn't work for the Amia ! It doesn't say invalid code it says "your discount code was not applied as you already have the biggest discount possible"....and yet this happens even when ordering Amias that are NOT on sale (no red price or anything). What gives???? Amias have went WAY up in price too!
That’s weird that that’s happening…as an alternative, maybe get a authorized return from Crandall office? I think I have a link there for that (using it helps my channel a LOT!). Authorized returns are basically chairs returned within the return window and you get a good discount + an extra discount using my codes!
@@Ahnestly Looks like maybe your code doesn't work at all now? Does the same thing with regular priced Gestures. You may want to ask SC what is going on?
I just found your channel today and I'm going on a watching binge as I'm currently trying to find a new chair. I bought a gaming chair a few years back and realized it is NOT helping my back problems lol... So I use my chair 10-16 hours a day. I do a bit of gaming(runescape), but my gaming isn't usually leaned forward high attention gaming, 90% of it is leaned back relaxed grinding on the game while doing other work on other monitors. So I need a chair that is comfortable while leaning back kind of laying in the chair with my hand up on the mouse, sometimes on the keyboard. But that can also be comfortable leaned forward when doing high-attention stuff like bossing/quests etc. I also do a lot of tinkering/building/soldering on my desk. (DIY drones, RC cars, 3D Printers, Gunsmithing, PC building, etc, etc). So which chair would you suggest is the best option for me? Btw, I am 5'10" and my weight fluctuates a lot between 200-250 depending on how active I am at the time due to my back issues.
I’d recommend anything with a headrest, and in general, the higher end chairs do better for folks with back pain. I’ve got a 2022 chair buying guide - use the time stamps and budget to help find a chair! Please consider using my links as it helps the channel a LOT! The ULTIMATE Chair Buying Guide for 2022 th-cam.com/video/dENnkLM1QB0/w-d-xo.html
@@Ahnestly I really appreciate your response!! and so fast! I did forget to mention one of my favorite ways to sit is crossing my legs in the chair like I've seen you do in some of your videos... I plan to use your links 100% btw, and i was looking at either the Aeron or the Embody, which chairs would you say for my size work best to be able to cross my legs like that?
Can anyone tell me the color of the fabric on that Gesture? It looks like Lagoon or Peacock but I can't tell which. The lighting is making a huge difference,
Why you not ask me?? You don’t think I read my comments?!?! :D it’s the cogent connect lagoon! If you decide to pick up, please consider using my links! Helps the channel a LOT!
@@Rave.- huh? You didn’t ask me because steelcase didn’t give me a code? Haha. I got mine from crandall office - maybe check there and get a authorized return for 20% off using my link+code!
Hope Herman Miller Embody get 4D-arms, or at least some good armrest depth adjustment. I like being able to get the armest right under my arms on height with the table, while getting very close to the table.
At the moment, I have saved up $500 for a refurbished steelcase amia or a refurbished leap v2. My current gaming chair is a gtracer I’ve had for 2 years and it makes my butt hurt so much. I even have my butt prints (from being very slim and having no ass) on the chair. 2hrs of gaming hurts so much, so hopefully the chairs will help resolve my sitting problem and posture.
@@StardustLegacyFighter i was debating on those two. I have seen so many reviews to help pick the best one but they’re all great reviews and it’s difficult to pick. I went with the Amia for the more padded seat. I even saved $30 and was able to add the 4-way adjustable arm rests :)
LOL these kinds of comparisons are always kind of sketchy. As someone who has very expensive furniture and chairs I buy them mostly because they look good, have some cachet and have good resale value. I don't necessarily subscribe to the whole sitting on a $1,000+ chair will ease back pain etc. My brother is cheap and sits on an IKEA Markus for years and he's just fine and honestly it's pretty comfortable. My neighbor is about as good an authority as it gets, he's an physical medicine doctor, an Olympic doctor, he has a Steelcase Amia he uses but he didn't buy it because of any medicinal reasons, his clinic just had a ton of them bought for it and he took one home. He's never once said you need to have an expensive chair over one that was cheaper. Another friend, another physician, when he sold his office had 10 Aerons, sold them all and he nor his wife or kids wanted any of them and didn't take a single one. My father before he retired had a Gunlocke Washington chair that was amazing but even he didn't take it with him (kind of wish I did). I have/had chairs and furniture that cost thousands to virtually nothing each and honestly never anything that needed warranty done. Cheap leather chairs the "leather" wears off, expensive ones they don't, that's it really, foam is better too and will last much longer, but realistically better foam cost what, $20, $50 for the manufacturer to use? These chairs honestly probably have maybe $300 retail's worth of better materials, that's why on the secondary market their values fall precipitously. For example I have been keeping my eye on a Steelcase Leap Worklounge for months on Marketplace. It's a what, $4,000 chair give or take? The guy is in the $700 range now and I might bite at around $500 and it's mint.
Again, not everyone is built the same. I would say the best authority is not a doctor. The best authority would be people with back pain, right? Like you would have to take several people with back pain and test them on cheaper chairs versus more expensive chairs and see what the result is then!
@@Ahnestly The best authority isn't a physical medicine doctor with decades of experience that also treats Olympic athletes, really? 😂OMG I can't wait until he gets home so I can go over there and tell him that. He's going to die laughing.
You’re making your doctor friend sound like an asshole. Does my suggestion not have merit? Put people who experience back pain in 2 different kinds of chairs and see if the expensive chairs have a higher rate if relieving back pain. But sure, let’s ask leading experts on whether chairs relieve back pain instead of going directly to the source. What’s hilarious about your response is that it aligns exactly with Malcolm gladwell and the freakonomics take on doctors. Did you know that doctors are extremely prone to overconfidence? And overconfidence is more deadly than incompetence, bc dummies like you believe every word they say instead of stepping back with healthy skepticism like they would with someone incompetent. And what’s scarier is, the older the doctor gets, the higher the death rate of their patients have. Why? Bc they misdiagnose all the time, bc they become even more plagued with overconfidence thinking they know it all, instead of actually listening to the patient or bothering to study the most recent findings in medicine. but doctors never know how shitty they are or how shitty they’ve become because doctors never follow up with their patients.
One final note: Your attitude is exactly why world war 2, the war in Iraq, and the Vietnam war went as shitty as it did, costing unnecessary thousands upon millions of lives. Bc experts claimed to know everything about war, were overconfident, and ROYALLY screwed things up. Don’t be an asshole. Educate yourself.
Hey Dan, I was wondering if you had any office chair recommendations for extremely tall people? My budget is 1,500 and I'm 6' 8". I was thinking maybe the Fern because the back is so tall?
Man, 6’8 is just so tall, I really don’t have certain chairs in mind. The fern does have a tall back, but the seat pan rolls out and I’ve heard taller guys suffer because of it (can feel gap at their butt). I’ve heard of taller guys giving up on office style chairs and opted for a racing car style gaming chair bc it was the only thing that offered back support that goes that high. One day, I’d like to get some 6’8 people in to test all my chairs, but statistically, not sure if I could even find any near me :-/ The only thing I can think of right now, although highly recommend you wait, would be an Embody with a headrest (when the headrest releases). The headrest is fantastic and could give you the extra support that you need with the extra long torso y’all have!
@@Ahnestly I got a refurbished Fern Digital Knit (felt seat cushion) for 305$ from the Haworth Outlet, it's great! The lumbar height isn't as adjustable as I expected, but it's still a much better fit than the Autonomous ErgoChair Pro+ I was using before. The back of the chair goes to the top of my shoulder blades. I really like the tension mechanism for the back. The arm rests are about 2 inches too short, so I'm using extenders (I don't know what chair's arm rests would extend high enough). The seat isn't as short as I thought, but it could be a touch longer (I have a 36 inch inseam). The syncro-tilt mechanism is amazing. All in all, I'm extremely happy with the chair. I'd definitely like to try an embody with the headrest but I don't think there are any herman miller dealers in my area to try them out in.
I bought my embody off of craigslist, still had the tags attached to the chair (was assembled 4 months prior to my purchase) for $350. I bet with all the layoffs taking place at tech companies, more of these will be flooding the aftermarket! I'm paying .08 cents per day to own this bad boy for the next 12 years, and I'm sure it'll last longer than that if I don't buy something else!
@@evanyeager No warranty with HM are for the original buyer only you can't transfer it . But if he is not lying for 350$ it really doesn't make a difference you take that chair and you use it or sell it for 900$ easily .
Don't pay 1800$ for an Embody. A new one should come in at ~1100$ incl. balance fabric and shipping after negotiations. Trust me, I bought mine like that. Bought a fully fledged Aeron for ~1000k for my wife as well. Both brand new with warrenty from a Herman Miller dealer.
So here is my take, if these chairs are overpriced, why are there no real low cost alternatives? Because build quality cost money. And yes, i bet they have a good markup. But why are there no chairs that are 30% of the price of these and same quality?
I love your channel, but idk about this one. Grab a Hyken and grab an Embody or Aeron and compare the quality difference and the feature differences. The embody weighs a ton and has an absolutely bonkers design with some of the best recline out there. Compare that to the Hyken or the Allsteel Relate which is hands down one of the worst chairs I've ever sat in. That, imo, is the difference. I feel like this short changes these amazing pieces of design.
@@Ahnestly sure, but I think these are more empirical reasons whereas the first one you listened isn't necessarily based on any real data (I could send somebody a $1,400 Humanscale Liberty Task and it could cause them discomfort, but they might feel very supported by an Omega, so price doesn't necessarily correlate to long term back health) and the second one is true but I'd never actually consider it when making a buying decision. It's just my opinion. Keep up the awesome work! I am a huge fan.
@@nat2r ah that makes sense! Ahnestly (ha, so cringe), I was so burnt out from last weeks video that I wanted a fun food for thought video that would be fun to think through and easy to edit, so def lots I probably missed! Appreciate your input!
I think the comparison between 3 phones vs 1 chair in 12 years is really not ideal. Every phone change, you get a new one. But a chair to last 12years, you need to be very careful with it. Especially, the warranty has limitations. The common problem of chairs are the seat foam that loses its original state, every screw gets loose (and the rotation of the hand rest gets even looser). These all are not covered under warranty, because of normal use defect. So to me, a big chunk goes to the branding, another big chunk goes to every additional year of warranty, like for instance 50bucks a year so 12 years => 600. But statistically, not many people will return such a chair for small issues and return fee is crazy high because its heavy.
For high-end chairs from brands like Herman Miller, their chairs can still feel, function and look very close to brand new even after the end of their 12-year warranty. Mind u that HM Aeron chairs can typically last 20 to 30 years which is double their already amazing 12-year warranty. And also keep in mind that they will take good care of your back and health for the entirety of those many years. So, IMHO, it's definitely a fair comparison to phones.
if these chairs will solve back pain then I have some magic beans to sell you. I have a steel case chair that was $700 about ten years ago, undoubtedly more now, and the build quality isn't any better than a much cheaper chair.
I mean...I own pretty much every popular chair, and I can tell you that the build quality is better, but there's always going to be a point of diminishing returns. The additional add-ons would be the excellent customer service and the 12 year warranty.
Or, it’s not primarily about appreciation. Many people don’t know better or have a tight budget they buy many items for. Chasing marginal gains do the top 10% well-compensated (or sth. like that) who could buy many chairs, but have no use for more than a few. Classic rich-poor gap that becomes increasingly apparent.
your reasons make sense but it's not all or nothing. There are plenty of chairs that cost much less too. So the question is more if those chairs are worth the extra 500-1000$ over the competition. Because if those midrange chairs still allow you to avoid having back surgery, then the reasoning is gone.
I would say kind of. It gets rid of the first and second, but not the third. And the third is a powerful third. How many people settle for a tissot when they could get a Rolex? Also, I scripted this part, but decided not to include it. Let’s say you get a $500 chair and replace every 4 years, you’re still saving money, but if your time is worth $30/hr and you spend 8 hours every time researching the next best $500 chair, then that’s an extra $240 of your time spent every time you buy a chair, bringing the total price closer or even higher than just getting one and never thinking about it again for 12 years
Well, for those midrange chairs, you'll probably buy them at least 3 times over a single lifetime of a higher-end chair like a Herman Miller. And you'll also with those high-end chairs, you'll be using a much higher quality product (better comfort/ergonomics, better build quality, and probably better/more features/adjustments) over those same number of years that u will spend by buying 3 midrange chairs.
A better comparison would be a cheap matteress vs an expensive one. I did quite a bit of research on matteresses before I bought my $920 all natural latex twin xl matteress. PS. My Latex matteress has a 20 year waranty vs the standard 10.
@@Ahnestly I got mine directly from SleepEZ I went to the showroom and tested out their matteresses before buying mine. the company is from Arizona, that's where I am from. :)
@@Ahnestly Sorry to hear that. :( I love mine I have no aches or pains after I got mine. BTW if you ever want to visit Arizona I would love to meet you. You are one of the very few youtubers that I REALLY like and would love to get to know I mean it I don't say it lightly.
@@ghardt91 hahaha that’s flattering! I hear great things about Arizona! If I ever make my way, I’ll hit you up! Email me at ahntouragemedia@gmail.com so I have some way to searching for you if I come that way!
Been a while since I reviewed tech, but from what I understand, no one uses a phone as a phone. It’s a social media / camera focused device. To have a phone with a solid camera gonna run you $300-400
just have an embody and aeron C behind me and and now sit on a fern and man 1 day and I wanna send it back.. like I know you have to give it time. But this chair doesn't feel size wise right at all. and hurts. And after this chair I officially hate HATE arm rests that are this moveable like on the fern (or leap v2) they just never are in the same position and move ALL trhe fucking time. worst thing ever design on chairs.
So here is my take, if these chairs are overpriced, why are there no real low cost alternatives? Because build quality cost money. And yes, i bet they have a good markup. But why are there no chairs that are a third of the price of these and same quality?
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how can you provide an honest review if you receive commission for these expensive chairs
@@vinesthemonkey I understand where the question is coming from, but it makes me sad that people have to doubt whether a reviewer has morals. You can watch any of my reviews and you can tell me whether you think I'm telling the truth or not. I only make money off of products I like - that's been a dream business model of mine, instead of being pigeonholed into one company, doing sales for products/services I don't believe in. I have videos where I straight up tell you when the product is bad (one of my videos is called "Don't Buy These Chairs", another is the Branch Verve, and I did a standing desk comparison video where I straight up showed why a desk I could make a ton of money from, is bad). My best chair under $200 has 5 chairs that I straight up say don't buy (they cost me a total of $1,000!).
Anyways, you decide who you want to believe!
My Gesture gives me the added confidence to feel like the King of the office. I'm the only one in the office, but still...
Lol
ELITE
#SigmaGrindset
As a fresh graduated designer student, i think (i would say i'm sure, but i always let the door open) that another reason why those chairs cost so much is, in one word, the investment. Take a recent high price chair, the cosm from herman miller: if i'm not mistaken they studied and produced prototypes for this chair for 7 years before launching it on the market; or the embody also, they designed it with the help of 20+ doctors, researchers, oculists, physiotherapists and more... so at the end of the chain, the buyer pays for all the studies and all the investments that the company made on that chair (on the opposide side, if you think about it, all those "gaming" chairs that cost 500$ at max, come out like mushrooms every year, but they are always pretty much the same, basically a racing seat with some added padding here and there... less research and investments, lower final price).
You know, im sitting in an old DX racer chair i had in storage because my IKEA Markus is making my lower back hurts. And you know what? This DX Racer at least doesnt make my lower back hurt even though its a very hard chair to sit in. Maybe these gaming chairs are somewhat ergonomic although comfort leaves a lot to be desired.
i actually make very little money but my expenses are also low and i bought an embody gaming
-to your first reason: it's the first chair i've used in 30 years that hasn't made my bony butt hurt no matter how long i sit in it. for someone that sits at my computer for many hours this was life changing
- to your second reason: the 12 year warranty is awesome
- to your third reason: the reputation of herman miller and the price i paid (even if it's slightly inflated for psychological reasons) gives me peace of mind knowing that i probably got the best possible chair i could
I’m glad you addressed the “cushion” they add to the price to maximise their profits. Manufacturing costs for these chair are significantly lower than people think they are. The argument about “it’s cheaper than back surgery” although valid still allows these companies to overcharge and take advantage of peoples fears, same as the supplement industry. In US and UK chairs can be 5 times the price as abroad just because they know they are willing to pay that.
Which chairs in the UK are significantly more expensive, when compared to the price abroad?
Still no reply, that's what I thought.
You don't know a single thing about the manufacturing processes involved in the making of high end office chairs, especially with the critical R&D that comes before it.
The cushion argument is a moot point, especially since chairs like the Leap v2 have a far longer lasting seats than any cheap chair on the market.
You also seem to completely forget about where these high end office chairs are manufactured, because they're not made in China.
Well 12 year warranty and the fact that so many people buy these after they've been used in the office for a decade and they still work great is another reason, have you ever bought a 10$ staples chair that used to cost 100$? Probably not, because it was garbage. So if you think about how many chairs you may buy within 12 years too, that's also a factor.
Yes they are a bit more expensive but no where near what you say.
Take México, they are only about 150 usd more.
Heard Perú/Brasil aren't that much more than US price (somewhat yes but not that much).
So your reply doesnt hold any fundamentals
I've had my Embody for a year now and it has cured my back pain, coming from a gaming chair.
I think another great thing about these chairs is that they don't necessarily degrade over time and keeps a high resale value if you decide to not keep it a few years from now.
These aren't reasons why they are expensive though. They are reasons why people are willing to pay high prices.
Purchased the Logitech Embody. No, I’m not rolling in the money over here, but working from home takes a completely different toll on your body. While some people are fine in whatever other chair, the DX Racer I had for 3 years was poor choice for a 40 hour work week. Was it fine for a playing games a couple hours a week? Sure. WFH for over year? Dear god no. I spent more at the chiropractor’s office (with good insurance, might I add) than the cost of the chair. My chiro confirmed a lot of my pain was due to sitting for extended periods of time / chair choice / & other factors. To clarify, he made no suggestions on a new chair, only to opt for an ergonomic one.
I get it’s hard for people to understand why some of the chairs costs are expensive but it’s an investment. Can also vouch that HM’s customer service is nothing short of stellar. I appreciate this video & the other ones I’ve seen on this channel - thank you for sharing! Anyone who has doubts should just visit a showroom & see for themselves. 🤷🏻♀️
I wanna chime in with something I have learned after buying a used Aeron a couple of years ago. Whilst it does make it soooo much easier to get into and stay in a proper posture, it does not automatically fix back pain. Although slouching is not as comfortable as it would be on other chairs, it still is very much possible and I still have to unlearn all the years of mastering slouching. Exercise (!!!) helps drastically to improve posture and mitigate back pain, I would argue in my case much more than any of these chairs. In a nutshell, just be weary to have realistic expectations from your office chair. It can be a great improvement to your life, but that improvement does not need to come automatically and instantaneously...
Absolutely right.
These chairs are meant to support your back and not let it get worse, instead of fixing any issues you already may have.
The ppl who usually have unrealistic expectations from these chairs are 9/10 times are just offended by the price and want to find any reason to criticise it.
I didn't buy an Aeron to magically fix my back pain, I'd have gone to a chiropractor for that lol.
@Ahnestly I solved my back pain mostly by ramping up on vitamin D3 (10K UI daily and always with K2), improving my overall health and circulation, sticking with olive oils for all dressings and cooking, no fried foods (other than in light olive oil), cutting out all sugars and most starchy carbs, and most of all, only eating things that naturally grow, walk, or swim (i.e., whole, real foods from the earth). I spent my 30's in constant severe back pain, have been taken out of my home on a stretcher, and back surgery only marginally helped. Even after surgery, I still always woke up incredibly stiff and it took hours to stand up straight and move around normally. If I ever overworked my back, I was out for a week, and I never noticed it until the next day after overstressing it. Now, 20 years later, I can do whatever I want, never take any meds of any sort, and I'm totally pain free and with a lot more flexibility. Have a look at Dr. Berg's videos on back pain. It changed my life.
.
Just the other day, I went to test out some Herman Miller chairs and as I sat in each one I realized that none of them really felt all that different from one another.
They were all generally comfortable and I was kind of surprised and also let down.
I suppose I was hoping to notice more differences that would make selecting the right chair form me, more clear, but it wasn't so.
Now I'm seriously considering just buying an ordinary chair from Costco to replace my old beat up one.
The price of the Herman Millers was also crazy and just made me think, "Man, what am I even paying for?" So yea...
I would like to try out some Steelcase chairs though, like the Gesture for the Arm Package it has, but apart from that and a good headrest and recline, I think I'm pretty good.
Agreed, I was at the Herman Miller store in DC; I sat in the Embody, Mirra 2, and Aeron Remastered, all of the chairs felt similar.
That warranty is a big part of the expense. I have a Steelcase Gesture and 8 months into ownership the head rest popped off on one side. I contacted Steelcase and within a week a brand new chair was on my doorstep. They told me to keep the old one and do whatever I wanted with it, keep it, donate it, trash it. I kept it and later found a repair manual online and fixed the "broken" one in about 15 minutes. So my initial investment has actually paid for 2 chairs, and shipping on both. Shipping is NOT trivial on these, they come fully assembled and the box is HUGE. They are also VERY heavy. The cost of these is fully justified imo, maybe painful for most folks, but if you can afford one it's worth it.
Great points.
The ppl who call these chairs "overpriced" don't seem to understand that cheaper chairs lack quality, and the companies who sell them don't offer full coverage on their warranties.
Very well said. I wrestled with buying a more expensive chair for a while. I work remote though and often game in my chair after work so I spend a lot of time in it which translates to a lot of wear & tear, that's one area you didn't really mention (kind of alluded to it with the phone example though); budget/cheap chairs don't have the same build/material quality (or, more importantly, lifespans) as these high-end chairs so you can easily end up running through enough budget chairs, over the 12 years that the warranty represents, to equal or surpass the cost of one of these more expensive chairs (I had one budget chair die in a year and the other seriously started degrading after just 6 months; if we say they last an average of a year then 12 chairs at ~$150 equals $1800.. 👀).
P.s. I actually made the decisions to buy one (am sitting in it now) after finishing up my research then watching some of your reviews (and your videos about the upcoming headrest from Atlas)
Which chair did you end up going with?
@@samuri7185
I got the Harmen Miller Gaming Embody; Herman Miller is doing a big sale (25% their gaming chairs) so it made it a lot easier to pull the trigger. And Ahnesty has a video about an upcoming 3rd party Headrest for it (he actually has a prototype installed on the Gaming Embody chair in this video, the blue backed one), probably wouldn't have gotten this one if the headrest wasn't coming out (a bit too tall for it otherwise).
It's crazy comfortable though : )
I’m really glad you like it!!!
@@Ahnestly
Definitely, thanks for the great vids! I don't know if you've done or considered it but any experience/s you've had with these companies (especially in regards to warranty claims but anything in the realm of customer service really) could potentially make a good video (one that'd likely be very useful to potential buyers); just a thought!
Thanks again : )
Cuz it's actually surprising expensive to make quality stuff and for people to care about build quality. Also you can spend like 1k on a chair today, and use it for 20 years and sell it for 250.
yes thats the point.. the money is not lost instantly.
and think about the money and time spend for owning multiple crappy chairs as well in the meantime.
I am wondering if you'll ever check out the Hinomi H1 PRO? It seems like a very nice mid range chair with a bunch of features that no other chairs have.
I'm literally about to buy an Aeron right now, was doing some last minute research. I keep talking myself out of it but with this sale, it's probably the best time to do it.
Nice! Please consider using my link! Helps the channel a LOT! Let me know how it goes! Also, you may want to hold off until Friday...I have a shiny new mesh chair that I'm reviewing that I think is the best mesh chair on the market.
@@Ahnestly Well it's a bit late for the shiny one I'm afraid lol I did use your link in the description though. I've had my eye on this for a really long time, unless it really dissapoints me for some reason, I think I'll be happy. I will watch the review though just so I can second guess myself haha
@@ruffastoast8570 HAHA i love it. My channel slogan should be "Creating mass chair FOMO since 2019". Thank you for using my link and supporting the channel. Means the world to me!!
@@Ahnestly I got the chair today btw, no regrets. Hope using your links worked.
Thanks bud, I used your links to buy the Embody couple days ago. Paid $1495 after tax. Good discount thanks to you
Woot woot!! Thank you and glad you love it!!!
I can't imagine paying full price for this chair. lol it's nice, but it's not 1500 nice.
@@sonderevokingbuns It's very pricy, especially with the Black Friday sales going on, I'd think it would be cheaper over there.
I can get one for £1130 over here in the UK, which is a bargain, considering that it usually sells for £1496.
@@StardustLegacyFighter uh, I paid 350 for mine.
@@sonderevokingbuns I'm talking about a brand new one from an authorised dealer/directly from HM's online store.
Of course I can also find a much cheaper one from other places, although it's a lot rarer here, since we don't see many big offices go out of business that often.
I received my Embody monday this week, I’m still in the honeymoon phase it’s a dream to si on it every day !!!
One of the best investment I made for myself.
My marketing professor would foam at the mouth watching this. Loved it.
Can you test the new Knoll Newsom Task Chair? It’s been getting a lot of attention in the design circle and is meant to compete with the likes of the Aeron! Thanks!
Curious about Newson as well, hope there's an option to recolour that ugly red boil of a knob.
Whether HM's office chairs are worth it or not, what doesn't do them any favours is the Eames lounge chair.
That thing is outrageously priced and costs around what some people make in an entire year. And personally, I didn't even find it that comfortable. It feels like that chair's main purpose is its vintage look and being a symbol of wealth.
When HM's selling something like that right beside $2000 office chairs, it's easy for someone to look at it and think they're just spending money on a name, rather than a quality product.
Wow, this is really insightful. I made a video on the Eames lounge chair a while back comparing it to some replicas that I was asked to remove, and I had the same impression. The blind test we made on my other channel is still up though! th-cam.com/video/NoNXdIkhyjo/w-d-xo.html
Eames has a very interesting history, it was never intended to be a lounge chair that is a symbol of wealth.
But with how cheap manufacturing has become, largely thanks to factories in China, a lot of traditional products are ridiculously more expensive nowadays.
i appreciate your videos. it has helped me choose a chair i want for gaming and so far its aeron vs embody.. but most likely embody.. im 300lbs weightlifter 5 10"
Now that I work from home, and make gaming videos, I'm ALWAYS sitting throughout the day! Wrestled for a year about getting the Gaming Embody. After seeing this sale, which is the biggest I ever seen, I decided to cough up the money and get it. It's coming Monday. Looking forward to it as I ALWAYS hear good things. If it's a worthy investment for my back, then I can't complain. Used your link too my friend 💪🏾
Thank you! And I really hope you love it!!!
How have you liked the chair??
@@jcortes1791 absolutely love it! Don't get me wrong, as much as I hate the price on the chair lol it is a very good one. I will say however, because I'm 5'7 it's very comfortable for me. I can't speak on the ones who are in the taller category. All in all though, definitely a good product if you have the funds for it
These are probably the best 3 chairs on the market. That saying they're still incredibly overpriced and it's the obvious choice to buy them used for half the price on Facebook
My $550 DxRacer gaming chair broke 2 times in 2 years, with INSANELY difficult fixes and a crummy warranty I was left fixing it myself, sweating every time, banging loud hammers trying to get the base off, etc. I got a new one and it broke 2 times in the next 2 years, also. F "gaming" chairs, man. I want that12 year warranty, that's why I'm paying so much. That's why I'm getting Herman Miller, so the technicians can do the fixes if it breaks, because fixing your broken chair SUCKS.
I love my Herman Miller Embody chair but will admit that my secret lab titan chair and a third of the price is 95% is good. However, for absolute 100% perfection go with one of these three aforementioned brands.
So the secret lab is just as good as the Herman Miller embody I see the embody is 1400 and the secret lab chair I want is $700
@@Prxsumo yes, I have the $600 version of titan chair and it’s amazing 👌🏽in some ways I like it more than the embody
@@Prxsumo The Titan is regarded as the best gaming chair on the market, although I consider the Interstuhl Backforce to be far superior, but the Embody is on a different level.
It's not built in China, the design is backed by years of ergonomic research and it's truly unique.
@@StardustLegacyFighter I'm getting the embody gaming hopefully it's worth the price
nice vid. my brain just cannot process the comparison between something with electricity, batteries, internet, silicon, wifi, gps, a screen, speakers etc with something you only just sit on top of. its not a fair comparison imo and thus shouldn't be priced comparatively
Good point! I had another section that I decided to scrap last minute but maybe I should have kept it in.
It was basically that in addition to phones, many of us also have laptops, which overlap a LOT in functionality with a phone, and if laptops cost $1,000 and we upgrade every 5 years, then we spend almost $4,000 every 12 years. And often times, we don’t need the upgraded hardware (if you did, you’re spending MUCH more than $4k), just that our stuff breaks. So now compare that to $1,800 for a chair you’ll use for at least 12 years!
No doubt a phone has cutting edge tech packed into a very small footprint and can do so many things, but the pricing of a high end office chair is dependent on other factors.
Yes, you can only sit on a chair, but clearly there are only a handful of chairs that you can sit on for 8+ hours a day and not be in pain. It's also about the longevity and guarantee that any issues with the product itself can be taken care of.
Many cheap office chairs fail to tick all the boxes and often have some sort of compromise to accept.
1-. Pain Reason...yup that's the reason I bought one of these chairs
Really struggling to find a chair for me.
Every chair seems to fall short in some term.
HM Embody seems to come close, but the non-adjustable lumbar support and the weird armrest adjustion makes me doubt it.
Maybe for a next "best chairs for you" episode:
I'm a bit taller than 180cm, weight shifts between 90 and 110kg (yea, ik lol).
I like (aggressive?) adjustable lumbar support as i suffer from back pain and bad posture. Vertical and horizontal adjustment would be a ++++.
I have a very broad frame and feel like a turtle in a way too small shell in racing chairs (my shoulders do not even remotely fit in there)
I want the chair to adjust to my setup, not the other way round, so armrest adjustment is fairly important
I sometimes go ergonomic rebel mode, though only "one leg over the other", never crosslegd
I would want a headrest but from the reviews it seems every headrest is pretty much trash (looking at BTODtv) and i am not able to get an atlas headrest in Germany.
I never sat on a high quality mesh chair, but my impression from 200-300€ mesh chairs is that mesh isnt as comfortable as other materials, so i'd like "classic" cushioning (i guess?). But I'm a sweater so i'd be ready to try high quality mesh.
I sit in my chair between 10 and 12 hours a day (full time job + self employment).
I dont care about budget, but would like a recommendation for different budgets, because: buying a 300€ chair every 3 years averages to roughly the same when buying a 1500€ chair every 12 years. So a recommendation for a 400-800, and another one for anything above would be nice.
Steelcase, autonomous, haworth and Herman Miller seem to be available. The Fern v1 (so without the newer digital knit) seems to be around 800-1100€ here.
Oh and my name is Andre. Currently sitting in a 13 year old (bought from a very light individual) steelcase leap that doesnt have 4D armrests and the 2d armrests really annoy me.
It also doesnt have the lumbar support inlay and without it it seems the lumbar support isnt aggressive enough, or in other words: the upper back portion pushes more forward than the lower back portion, which feels sooo weird. And the lumber support is a few hairs too low + the seating pad being a few mm too short in the back.
Sounds like the gesture would be really good for you. Crazy arm rests, nice backrest sloping to allow shoulder movement, comfy foam seat, aggressive lumbar, and an actually decent headrest. Highly recommend. Also, the fern might be nice too, and at 180 you might not need a headrest on the fern with its high back. But seriously try out the gesture, sounds like a top fit for you imo.
@@nbkedd 6'4 dude here, fern is not it. The high back was what sold me, but it promotes awful neck posture for me.
Hey. You should try some german brands. The Internet is full of reviews of american brands, but there are some pretty good ones in germany (maybe even better than the usual mentioned in the US chair influencer videos). You have to try haider bioswing (360 or above) and sedus. Also have a Look at dauphin, they are a bit cheaper than the ones mentioned before. Wilkhahn and löffler should be mentioned here too. Good luck finding one thats suits your needs :)
Thanks for the reviews, the Chairs are OK but I really think they are geared toward the office as opposed to the home, hence the inflated prices... Guess I'll keep looking, perhaps more in the direction of Secret Labs Titan or something similar.
Have you actually tried any of these chairs out?
If you're not planning on working/gaming for long sessions at a time, then any chair will do, otherwise you're going to feel the pain.
@@StardustLegacyFighter I do research, which is quite intense, but I'm against paying for ergonomic office chairs that are over priced.
@@pip5461 Inflation is the real killer, so many of these high end office chairs weren't that expensive prior to the pandemic.
I wouldn't recommend buying a single gaming chair for long work sessions, they're nothing more than a silly gimmick.
The smart thing to do would be to pick up a refurbished chair from any of the top brands, but it's your choice lol.
You can't seriously do task intensive work in a gaming chair, terrible choice imo. Especially, if you're someone who leans forward.
I wouldn't be surprised if half the price is the cost of the 12-year warranty and the free shipping and return shipping if you were to return after the trial period. We all know free shipping is not really free, It's already factored into the price of the item. The fact that these chairs come fully assembled in large boxes, the shipping, and possible return shipping can't be cheap.
Shipping probably costs about $200, and that assumes one way! So $400 for a potential return
Quick question I am thinking between fern (1160 euros) and embody (1560 euros). I am more leaning toward fern because I am 188cm (6ft 2") and fern's backrest is higher. But only thing that I hate and when I tried in saloon is 4d armrests. They didn't hold position quite well. I don't know is it like that because it was show room example and it was beaten by customers. But what is your experience with armrests? If that is something that would be a problem I would in that case take additional financial hit but I am afraid that embody's backrest is not high for by upper back.
Been in the market for a new office chair ever since I started working from home and that is how I found your channel. It seems most sites do not offer the "high" backed Embody, did they do away with it (I'm 6'1", narrow shouldered, overweight (250lbs))? Does the Embody support my fat as*?! I used to think $500 was a lot but buy once, cry once. Also, I wish I only spent $500 on a new phone...
I'm almost your mesurements, my embody is just fine
Have you ever tried the HBADA E3 ergonomic chair from Amazon? I would really like to see a review from you of this chair.
Hi Dan,
I watched almost all of your Videos and i really want buy one, but i cant decide what to buy. Can you give me your opinion maybe.
I am 178 cm tall and i weigh around 65kg. I can buy a fully loaded embody for 1230€ a fern with no headrest and no lumbar for 799€ and a gesture without headrest for 869€ and with headrest for 970€.
Do you think the embody is worth the plus 450€ investment, or should i just get a Fern or a Gesture. And btw i am from germany and steelcase only gives 5 years Warranty.
Hi! It's hard to tell what would be best for your needs. For me personally, and a lot of folks, the Embody is the best, followed very closely by the Fern.
@@Ahnestly I sit almost every day between 5-7 hours sometimes more. And i just found a new aeron remastered size b fully loaded with leather armpads for 1270€. Maybe the aeron would be better for me ? I have lower back pain and sometimes shoulder pain. When i go to sleep i feel the pain even more. I really want chair that does help with my back problems and doesnt waste money. I know that the herman miller keeps his value much more especially in germany and has a better warranty. Would you say the aeron is a safer pick than the embody? For some reason the aeron is more expensiv than the embody here in germany.
@@darex1844 Recommend you test it. Can't know without testing. And if Germany is similar to USA, should be free returns!
Hey man, have you tried each of the fabric choices for the embody? I am TORN on which material
I've got a Balance Embody and the gaming Sync Embody, but if you want a headrest, which is coming early 2023 by a company called Atlas Headrest (I've made a few videos on it), I highly recommend you go with one of the following, because these are the ones that are guaranteed to get a match!
Sync - Black, Nightfall, Dark Carbon,
Medley - Pewter, Charcoal, Khaki, Blueberry
Rhythm - Black
Balance - No guarantees
Hope this helps! If you decide to pick up, please consider using my links and use the code for an extra 5% off! Helps the channel a LOT! Let me know what you choose!!!
@@Ahnestly Thanks!
Which chair do you consider more comfortable ? I know its a toss up because everyone is different
Yeah this is the toughest question. My wife loves the gaming, and I like the regular! But I find the gaming comfortable as well. Tbh, I would go for gaming bc you’re getting an extra $180 off right now on it and it’s guaranteed to get a matching headrest when it comes out!
Crazy how the top 3 chair manufacturers are all based out of Michigan
It's also crazy that Detroit is also in Michigan and a farcry from the other parts of the state.
no wonder their shit is so expensive. look at American car quality
Hey Dan your SteelCase code doesn't work for the Amia ! It doesn't say invalid code it says "your discount code was not applied as you already have the biggest discount possible"....and yet this happens even when ordering Amias that are NOT on sale (no red price or anything). What gives???? Amias have went WAY up in price too!
That’s weird that that’s happening…as an alternative, maybe get a authorized return from Crandall office? I think I have a link there for that (using it helps my channel a LOT!). Authorized returns are basically chairs returned within the return window and you get a good discount + an extra discount using my codes!
@@Ahnestly Thanks Dan....still looking at options and that is one I am looking at too!
@@Ahnestly Looks like maybe your code doesn't work at all now? Does the same thing with regular priced Gestures. You may want to ask SC what is going on?
Thanks for the heads up. Just shot them an email. I'll keep you posted!
@@Ahnestly No problem
I just found your channel today and I'm going on a watching binge as I'm currently trying to find a new chair. I bought a gaming chair a few years back and realized it is NOT helping my back problems lol... So I use my chair 10-16 hours a day. I do a bit of gaming(runescape), but my gaming isn't usually leaned forward high attention gaming, 90% of it is leaned back relaxed grinding on the game while doing other work on other monitors. So I need a chair that is comfortable while leaning back kind of laying in the chair with my hand up on the mouse, sometimes on the keyboard. But that can also be comfortable leaned forward when doing high-attention stuff like bossing/quests etc. I also do a lot of tinkering/building/soldering on my desk. (DIY drones, RC cars, 3D Printers, Gunsmithing, PC building, etc, etc). So which chair would you suggest is the best option for me? Btw, I am 5'10" and my weight fluctuates a lot between 200-250 depending on how active I am at the time due to my back issues.
I’d recommend anything with a headrest, and in general, the higher end chairs do better for folks with back pain. I’ve got a 2022 chair buying guide - use the time stamps and budget to help find a chair! Please consider using my links as it helps the channel a LOT!
The ULTIMATE Chair Buying Guide for 2022
th-cam.com/video/dENnkLM1QB0/w-d-xo.html
@@Ahnestly I really appreciate your response!! and so fast! I did forget to mention one of my favorite ways to sit is crossing my legs in the chair like I've seen you do in some of your videos... I plan to use your links 100% btw, and i was looking at either the Aeron or the Embody, which chairs would you say for my size work best to be able to cross my legs like that?
Aeron is designed for you to sit properly. The hard edges make it not viable to sit cross legged! Embody is my favorite chair of all the chairs!
Can anyone tell me the color of the fabric on that Gesture? It looks like Lagoon or Peacock but I can't tell which. The lighting is making a huge difference,
Why you not ask me?? You don’t think I read my comments?!?! :D it’s the cogent connect lagoon! If you decide to pick up, please consider using my links! Helps the channel a LOT!
@@Ahnestly Cause steelcase is stingy and they didn't give you a discount code to give people. Otherwise I'd use it.
Thanks for the color though
@@Rave.- huh? You didn’t ask me because steelcase didn’t give me a code? Haha. I got mine from crandall office - maybe check there and get a authorized return for 20% off using my link+code!
Hope Herman Miller Embody get 4D-arms, or at least some good armrest depth adjustment. I like being able to get the armest right under my arms on height with the table, while getting very close to the table.
At the moment, I have saved up $500 for a refurbished steelcase amia or a refurbished leap v2. My current gaming chair is a gtracer I’ve had for 2 years and it makes my butt hurt so much. I even have my butt prints (from being very slim and having no ass) on the chair. 2hrs of gaming hurts so much, so hopefully the chairs will help resolve my sitting problem and posture.
Great chairs, would recommend the Leap v2 if you want all the ergonomic adjustments, but the Amia has a better padded seat pad.
@@StardustLegacyFighter i was debating on those two. I have seen so many reviews to help pick the best one but they’re all great reviews and it’s difficult to pick. I went with the Amia for the more padded seat. I even saved $30 and was able to add the 4-way adjustable arm rests :)
LOL these kinds of comparisons are always kind of sketchy. As someone who has very expensive furniture and chairs I buy them mostly because they look good, have some cachet and have good resale value. I don't necessarily subscribe to the whole sitting on a $1,000+ chair will ease back pain etc. My brother is cheap and sits on an IKEA Markus for years and he's just fine and honestly it's pretty comfortable. My neighbor is about as good an authority as it gets, he's an physical medicine doctor, an Olympic doctor, he has a Steelcase Amia he uses but he didn't buy it because of any medicinal reasons, his clinic just had a ton of them bought for it and he took one home. He's never once said you need to have an expensive chair over one that was cheaper. Another friend, another physician, when he sold his office had 10 Aerons, sold them all and he nor his wife or kids wanted any of them and didn't take a single one. My father before he retired had a Gunlocke Washington chair that was amazing but even he didn't take it with him (kind of wish I did). I have/had chairs and furniture that cost thousands to virtually nothing each and honestly never anything that needed warranty done. Cheap leather chairs the "leather" wears off, expensive ones they don't, that's it really, foam is better too and will last much longer, but realistically better foam cost what, $20, $50 for the manufacturer to use? These chairs honestly probably have maybe $300 retail's worth of better materials, that's why on the secondary market their values fall precipitously. For example I have been keeping my eye on a Steelcase Leap Worklounge for months on Marketplace. It's a what, $4,000 chair give or take? The guy is in the $700 range now and I might bite at around $500 and it's mint.
Again, not everyone is built the same. I would say the best authority is not a doctor. The best authority would be people with back pain, right? Like you would have to take several people with back pain and test them on cheaper chairs versus more expensive chairs and see what the result is then!
@@Ahnestly The best authority isn't a physical medicine doctor with decades of experience that also treats Olympic athletes, really? 😂OMG I can't wait until he gets home so I can go over there and tell him that. He's going to die laughing.
You’re making your doctor friend sound like an asshole. Does my suggestion not have merit? Put people who experience back pain in 2 different kinds of chairs and see if the expensive chairs have a higher rate if relieving back pain. But sure, let’s ask leading experts on whether chairs relieve back pain instead of going directly to the source.
What’s hilarious about your response is that it aligns exactly with Malcolm gladwell and the freakonomics take on doctors. Did you know that doctors are extremely prone to overconfidence? And overconfidence is more deadly than incompetence, bc dummies like you believe every word they say instead of stepping back with healthy skepticism like they would with someone incompetent. And what’s scarier is, the older the doctor gets, the higher the death rate of their patients have. Why? Bc they misdiagnose all the time, bc they become even more plagued with overconfidence thinking they know it all, instead of actually listening to the patient or bothering to study the most recent findings in medicine. but doctors never know how shitty they are or how shitty they’ve become because doctors never follow up with their patients.
One final note: Your attitude is exactly why world war 2, the war in Iraq, and the Vietnam war went as shitty as it did, costing unnecessary thousands upon millions of lives. Bc experts claimed to know everything about war, were overconfident, and ROYALLY screwed things up. Don’t be an asshole. Educate yourself.
@@Ahnestly sheesh
Ahn, do ya think we could get a “Best 180° Full Recline Office Chairs?”
That would be stupid.
The answer couldn't be simpler, because we buy.
that blizzcon clip brought back some memories
Hey Dan, I was wondering if you had any office chair recommendations for extremely tall people? My budget is 1,500 and I'm 6' 8". I was thinking maybe the Fern because the back is so tall?
Man, 6’8 is just so tall, I really don’t have certain chairs in mind. The fern does have a tall back, but the seat pan rolls out and I’ve heard taller guys suffer because of it (can feel gap at their butt). I’ve heard of taller guys giving up on office style chairs and opted for a racing car style gaming chair bc it was the only thing that offered back support that goes that high. One day, I’d like to get some 6’8 people in to test all my chairs, but statistically, not sure if I could even find any near me :-/
The only thing I can think of right now, although highly recommend you wait, would be an Embody with a headrest (when the headrest releases). The headrest is fantastic and could give you the extra support that you need with the extra long torso y’all have!
@@Ahnestly I got a refurbished Fern Digital Knit (felt seat cushion) for 305$ from the Haworth Outlet, it's great! The lumbar height isn't as adjustable as I expected, but it's still a much better fit than the Autonomous ErgoChair Pro+ I was using before. The back of the chair goes to the top of my shoulder blades. I really like the tension mechanism for the back. The arm rests are about 2 inches too short, so I'm using extenders (I don't know what chair's arm rests would extend high enough). The seat isn't as short as I thought, but it could be a touch longer (I have a 36 inch inseam). The syncro-tilt mechanism is amazing. All in all, I'm extremely happy with the chair. I'd definitely like to try an embody with the headrest but I don't think there are any herman miller dealers in my area to try them out in.
Dude I’m SO happy you found something that works!!! Congrats and I hope you love it!!!
I bought my embody off of craigslist, still had the tags attached to the chair (was assembled 4 months prior to my purchase) for $350. I bet with all the layoffs taking place at tech companies, more of these will be flooding the aftermarket! I'm paying .08 cents per day to own this bad boy for the next 12 years, and I'm sure it'll last longer than that if I don't buy something else!
Did you get the warranty with it?
That is an insane deal.
How? Embodys in the $700-$800 range get sold almost immediately, even $1000 ones go fast. 🤔
Are you sure you got the embody and not the em bo ding
@@evanyeager No warranty with HM are for the original buyer only you can't transfer it .
But if he is not lying for 350$ it really doesn't make a difference you take that chair and you use it or sell it for 900$ easily .
Don't pay 1800$ for an Embody. A new one should come in at ~1100$ incl. balance fabric and shipping after negotiations. Trust me, I bought mine like that. Bought a fully fledged Aeron for ~1000k for my wife as well. Both brand new with warrenty from a Herman Miller dealer.
@MMAGoblin You ask several dealers for offers and haggle (nicely). That's how I did it for my chairs.
So here is my take, if these chairs are overpriced, why are there no real low cost alternatives? Because build quality cost money. And yes, i bet they have a good markup. But why are there no chairs that are 30% of the price of these and same quality?
I love your channel, but idk about this one. Grab a Hyken and grab an Embody or Aeron and compare the quality difference and the feature differences. The embody weighs a ton and has an absolutely bonkers design with some of the best recline out there. Compare that to the Hyken or the Allsteel Relate which is hands down one of the worst chairs I've ever sat in. That, imo, is the difference. I feel like this short changes these amazing pieces of design.
How are we disagreeing? I agree with everything you wrote! In the pain section, I talked about the hours of design, manpower, R&D of materials.
@@Ahnestly sure, but I think these are more empirical reasons whereas the first one you listened isn't necessarily based on any real data (I could send somebody a $1,400 Humanscale Liberty Task and it could cause them discomfort, but they might feel very supported by an Omega, so price doesn't necessarily correlate to long term back health) and the second one is true but I'd never actually consider it when making a buying decision.
It's just my opinion. Keep up the awesome work! I am a huge fan.
@@nat2r ah that makes sense! Ahnestly (ha, so cringe), I was so burnt out from last weeks video that I wanted a fun food for thought video that would be fun to think through and easy to edit, so def lots I probably missed! Appreciate your input!
@@Ahnestly of course. U da MVP. Youre solo and your quality is up there with the acronym boys
@@nat2r BTOD? 😅
I think the comparison between 3 phones vs 1 chair in 12 years is really not ideal. Every phone change, you get a new one. But a chair to last 12years, you need to be very careful with it. Especially, the warranty has limitations. The common problem of chairs are the seat foam that loses its original state, every screw gets loose (and the rotation of the hand rest gets even looser). These all are not covered under warranty, because of normal use defect. So to me, a big chunk goes to the branding, another big chunk goes to every additional year of warranty, like for instance 50bucks a year so 12 years => 600. But statistically, not many people will return such a chair for small issues and return fee is crazy high because its heavy.
For high-end chairs from brands like Herman Miller, their chairs can still feel, function and look very close to brand new even after the end of their 12-year warranty. Mind u that HM Aeron chairs can typically last 20 to 30 years which is double their already amazing 12-year warranty. And also keep in mind that they will take good care of your back and health for the entirety of those many years. So, IMHO, it's definitely a fair comparison to phones.
You're generalising way too much.
And they are even more expensive now...
I hope that leg brace comes off soon mate that looks super annoying
Thank you! It’s….incredibly annoying.
if these chairs will solve back pain then I have some magic beans to sell you. I have a steel case chair that was $700 about ten years ago, undoubtedly more now, and the build quality isn't any better than a much cheaper chair.
I mean...I own pretty much every popular chair, and I can tell you that the build quality is better, but there's always going to be a point of diminishing returns. The additional add-ons would be the excellent customer service and the 12 year warranty.
"A little extra money" 1:18
Or, it’s not primarily about appreciation. Many people don’t know better or have a tight budget they buy many items for. Chasing marginal gains do the top 10% well-compensated (or sth. like that) who could buy many chairs, but have no use for more than a few. Classic rich-poor gap that becomes increasingly apparent.
your reasons make sense but it's not all or nothing. There are plenty of chairs that cost much less too. So the question is more if those chairs are worth the extra 500-1000$ over the competition. Because if those midrange chairs still allow you to avoid having back surgery, then the reasoning is gone.
I would say kind of. It gets rid of the first and second, but not the third. And the third is a powerful third. How many people settle for a tissot when they could get a Rolex?
Also, I scripted this part, but decided not to include it. Let’s say you get a $500 chair and replace every 4 years, you’re still saving money, but if your time is worth $30/hr and you spend 8 hours every time researching the next best $500 chair, then that’s an extra $240 of your time spent every time you buy a chair, bringing the total price closer or even higher than just getting one and never thinking about it again for 12 years
Well, for those midrange chairs, you'll probably buy them at least 3 times over a single lifetime of a higher-end chair like a Herman Miller. And you'll also with those high-end chairs, you'll be using a much higher quality product (better comfort/ergonomics, better build quality, and probably better/more features/adjustments) over those same number of years that u will spend by buying 3 midrange chairs.
A better comparison would be a cheap matteress vs an expensive one. I did quite a bit of research on matteresses before I bought my $920 all natural latex twin xl matteress.
PS. My Latex matteress has a 20 year waranty vs the standard 10.
DUDE. WAIT. Where’s you get yours?
@@Ahnestly I got mine directly from SleepEZ I went to the showroom and tested out their matteresses before buying mine. the company is from Arizona, that's where I am from. :)
@@ghardt91 bahaha I got our latex mattress from diymattress.com. It’s AMAZING but still didn’t do away with my back issues :(
@@Ahnestly Sorry to hear that. :( I love mine I have no aches or pains after I got mine. BTW if you ever want to visit Arizona I would love to meet you. You are one of the very few youtubers that I REALLY like and would love to get to know I mean it I don't say it lightly.
@@ghardt91 hahaha that’s flattering! I hear great things about Arizona! If I ever make my way, I’ll hit you up! Email me at ahntouragemedia@gmail.com so I have some way to searching for you if I come that way!
That's a VERY extraordinary claim that these chairs are going to eliminate back surgery.
I agree with this
Made in USA is why they are expensive!
Good point.
Lost me a bit with the phone argument, $100 phones are very usable these days unless you want to play games on them
Been a while since I reviewed tech, but from what I understand, no one uses a phone as a phone. It’s a social media / camera focused device. To have a phone with a solid camera gonna run you $300-400
ANTHROS chair is expensive too.
Look at the date for this video lol. Way before Anthros came out (I wasn’t aware of it on the pre sale!)
Any chair over $350 is simply over priced. I cant even imagine the profit margin on them
They’re 2.5+ USD now…
Naw not quite. Just under 2 for the embody. The others are 1600ish
@@Ahnestly I just realized I ended up on their b2b webpage that’s why. I guess they up-charge businesses if they just buy a single chair.
7:00 I'm gonna put some dirt in your eye.
You’ll leave me with one functioning eye? I respect you less now. Lol
Ｐ𝐫Ｏ𝕞Ｏ𝓢ｍ
Becuase they know you'll pay it.
just have an embody and aeron C behind me and and now sit on a fern and man 1 day and I wanna send it back.. like I know you have to give it time. But this chair doesn't feel size wise right at all. and hurts. And after this chair I officially hate HATE arm rests that are this moveable like on the fern (or leap v2) they just never are in the same position and move ALL trhe fucking time. worst thing ever design on chairs.
You won't get that annoying armrest issue with the Aeron or Embody.
So here is my take, if these chairs are overpriced, why are there no real low cost alternatives? Because build quality cost money. And yes, i bet they have a good markup. But why are there no chairs that are a third of the price of these and same quality?