@@jonathanferguson1211 Even if it's 2 hours long I'd love to see the full cut of the conversation posted somewhere honestly. I often catch myself wondering why you "didn't" notice something or left something out but I suspect it's just cut out for viewer retention metrics and all that nonsense
I just wish the AK had a stock and it sounded better for some reason the ak and old world shotgun are like super thin compared all other guns and it feels kinda weird do use them
I think for the shotty the reason it had the bulky bits for the charger is because they expect you to use it in a space suit so its to account for the less nimble fingers.
Another reason is it may be a part used on both it and the Beowulf to save on manufacturing costs? The Beowulf has what seems to be the same handle but at the front afaik
I figured that name being attached to that gun was an attempt at ironic humour. Like it's BLATANTLY not. But perhaps a bunch of people in the future with limited context and examples might misinterpret it as such. Perhaps they thought labelling a 1911 as "Old earth ritual firearm" was too on the nose a joke at archeologists. :p
I was pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoy Starfield's weapon design. It's such a massive leap forward from Fallout, for obvious reasons, but it's a welcomed change
@@vinceely2906 Once the CK releases I'll see what I can do about the lack of scrapping and reuse. Obviously we have access to SFSE already but without the CK I can't really make anything significant. Maybe I can even add those features in without SFSE, who knows. Depends. My goal is console support.
The only thing I was bummed about is that 90% are ballistic, if there were any setting that could allow more laser/energy weaponry it ought be this! But, the EM and Pulse and all that are pretty cool, even if ballistic is stronger, more plentiful, and more versatile.
@@JB-xl2jc Hm, the Big Bang, I think Particle Shortgun, is quite strong though, especially with upgrades. That said I wonder if they'll level it out more in the future of the game when DLC's come into play, so likely a few new and exotic weapons too.
@@JB-xl2jcgiven how it's supposed to be near future, with space travel only possible for spoiler reasons, makes sense that guns haven't changed too much
@@tosfriendly There are actually 11 melee weapons. Varies melee weapons have mods already like poison. There are 45 different rifles, 36 pistols, 14 heavy weapons, and 11 shotguns. I do agree about dismemberment. It would have been nice to have. A flamethrower sounds cool, but incineration ammo or mod on a melee weapon has the same effect. Starfield does have some issues, but lacking weapons isn't one of them. I have about 35 hours into the game, and it's been great overall. Definitely not lacking in content.
Part of the reasoning behind the Orion being so clearly based on (modern-day) ballistic weapon aesthetics might be in-universe brand identity: the Orion is made by Allied Armaments, whose weapons look a bit more 'modern day' compared to other weapon manufacturers (Laredo Arms are the ones with the wood details, while Combatech have more 'futuristic' designs, for example the Equinox and Solstice from part 1).
Another thing that I think of about have a ballistic weapon aesthetic on a laser weapon if familiarity of use if the magazine or battery or whatever is where you would traditionally put a magazine I feel like muscle memory would help with at least initial training with the weapon.
Also I think part of why the Orion seems to have so much dispersion here is because it has nothing to focus on. When shooting at actual targets, it seems to have a convergence gimbal.
I'm sure you've had a ton of feedback already but I just wanted to add to it: the back and forth between Dave and Jonathan adds quite a bit to these videos. Never stop it. :D
One thing interesting I noticed about the Orion from using it is the target acquisition on the two barrels. If you focus on a target for a second they will adjust (like not physically though) to have the convergence point of the lasers on that target. So that could explain the weird accuracy; it feels like the barrels are designed to move a bit and adjust, so when firing while moving around without a solid target they haven't focused yet.
The 6.5mm ammunition of the Maelstrom is labeled in-game as "6.5mm CT", with "CT" presumably standing for "Cased Telescoped". Similar in concept to some of the the rounds developed for the LSAT program, apparently, which even included a 6.5mm caliber.
The Magshear is most definitely a scaled down version of the Metal Storm weapons system. Which is actually a very fascinating, basically a modernization of the mitreilleuse concept. It was these blocks of barrels where a portion of the barrel was basically superimposed caseless bullets. It used an electrical priming system which would activate the first row and then the next row and move back in sequence. With 36-barrels it could achieve a firing rate of something like 27,000 RPM per barrel, it basically fires so fast it sounds like a single gunshot. And this wasn't small caliber, it was firing a 7.62mm projectile. A scaled down version of that technology would be like an ultra shotgun.
I know that that was the overall fastest RPM with 36 barrels. to achieve that I believe it was 180 rounds with each barrel firing at a rate of 27K+ RPM per barrel. so when you multiply it out by 36 barrels comes out to an overral fire rate of about 1m RPM. Still ridiculous firepower but the system got scrapped for a reason it was too expensive and just not as practical as say an M2 or a 20mm autocannon. I wonder if a shoulderfired concept would be feasible nowadays, id imagine the recoil would be very unpleasant. @@scarter910
I found all of the square-bored weapons in Starfield quite interesting, would have loved to hear more of a perspective on that. Love the series as always.
i cant remember the name but there was a mecha anime series i watched years ago there they also used square amunition. maybe one of the devs was a fan of this show.
The main reason why guns seem to have so much recoil in the game is because in early gameplay demos they didn't. They barely had any. Which generated a lot of commentary together with the other issues with the gunplay at that point about how the weapons were lacking feeling. The recoil is mostly there to give the guns more presence, to give the player the feeling they're firing a gun that has some significant force behind it.
I'd liked to say that it's better to male them more realistic, but honestly it actually does feel bland and uninteresting when your guns are weightless and ergonomic to the point of forgetting they're there.
I'd liked to say that it's better to male them more realistic, but honestly it actually does feel bland and uninteresting when your guns are weightless and ergonomic to the point of forgetting they're there.
I’ve actually never understood the “This gun has crazy recoil!” That gaming has. I shoot regularly and anyone who does can tell you that the more you shoot, the less recoil affects you, you’ll be able to keep an AK-47 fairly level for example even without a stock
Also works in 0g, with less sway but the recoil pushes you backwards so you can practically pull a wall-e with a microgun to move around when you don’t have a boostpack/can’t use it
@@swordsgaming3864 You literally replied to a (partial) explanation of why. Realistic recoil doesn't "feel" strong enough to communicate a sense of power from firing the weapon.
I'm surprised Jonathan didn't notice that the Orion was based off of the pulse rifle from Alien. If you gave him the full view he would notice it. It even has the same red alarm clock style ammo counter.
Johnathan mentioned in a comment about the magshear and magstorm, that some of his comments are on the cutting room floor for the edit. so he may have mentioned it
If there does end up being a part 3, I'd be interested in ending on an overview of which guns are made by which manufacturers (CombaTech, Laredo, Kore Kinetics, etc), and seeing Jonathan's thoughts on overall stylistic differences.
I am surprised that Jonathan didn't mention the "Metalstorm" system when it came to the Magshear gun. To my eyes, the Magshear (as well as the rest of its type) seems the most similar to the Metalstorm system, especially considering there are multiple bullets in one barrel (3 per barrel for 75 total), which was exactly the idea of the Metalstorm platform
I'm actually really liking the occasional discussion and commentary between them. Makes it feel a bit less like someone just talking at you the whole time (not that Johnathan isn't great himself obv).
One potential reason for the telescoping ammo especially in a vacuum is that it can insulate the chamber from heating. Instead of relying on the brass case to carry away the heat you rely on the polymer to prevent that heat from transfering to the chamber.
I can only think of one other game with a metal storm inspired weapon system, and it's Crysis 3 with the Typhoon - was always my favourite gun in that one, these things are just so cool.
I loved it when John just got side tracked, and started talking in-depth about the Scorpion Evo, even though he mentioned how it and the Maelstrom are only similar in role alone.
I’m so used to Matt Easton talking about the Royal Armouries that I didn’t even imagine modern firearms being displayed! I have got to get my company to send me over on training.
Jonathan and his voice will always make me happy. I love weaponry and video game weaponry, but to be honest, Jonathan makes it all the better. Wonderful. :)
Note: The sights are a modification slot in basically each weapon, with iron sights usually being the most basic modification option. Depending on the weapon, other modifications include reflex sights, holo-sights and various scopes. The reason, that so many weapons are shown with iron sights, is simply because the most basic modding options are shown.
I think his main point is that some attachments on firearms are such across-the-board improvements on iron sights that he believes they'd be installed integrally and/or the gun would basically not be available or used without them. That point is made more extensively in earlier episodes.
It's also for player's benefit. Not all players like to use scopes. I was given an EM rifle for the UC quest. It had a short scope. I removed and replaced it with iron sights the first chance I got.
@@chadharger9323 Yeah that's one of the things I think is definitely for players because some players love iron sights only. For me it depends on the gun.
It also makes sense from a logical standpoint that iron sights would never fully go away. Iron sights are much harder to break than holographic or reflex sights. I would imagine that keeping iron sights on weapons even so far into the future would be a simple and cost effective insurance policy in the event the tech breaks down.
What he's saying is that optics technology today is at the point that pistols have red dots on them, so it wouldn't make sense in the future that iron sights would be standard anymore.
I'm surprised the tube going from the barrel to the ammo counter on the Maelstrom wasn't mentioned. I've thought about it a bit, and think it might be that the ammo counter uses a pressure-activation system. Any time a round is fired and leaves the barrel, some of the expelled gas feeds through the tube, that pressure triggers the counter to tick down a round. There might also be a trigger in the magazine well that detects if the mag is dropped and a new one is inserted, and that resets the counter.
I believed the bad reviews at the time and didn't get a copy. I've decided that I will - alternate reality Victorians fighting werewolves? Has to be done.
5:30 polymer case ammunition runs even cooler than brass cased, and heat rejection is a big issue in space. So you might have caseless for the ammunition load and logistics, or pick polyer cased for some percentage of the benefits of caseless but better vacuum performance
There's a small detail with the reload of the Razerback that is commonly overlooked; the clip actually opens and closes a bit as you ready the gun after reloading.
I'm pretty sure Bethesda based the Magshear off the old prototype Metalstorm weapons, where you had multiple rounds stacked in each barrel and would be electronically fired starting with the rounds at the front and then working its way back. Found the old video of some test firings: th-cam.com/video/AEu9LLQpOF8/w-d-xo.html
Please do a Part 3, so many cool guns in this game. Also, Dave and Jonathan should do an episode talking about Caseless ammunition. It would be really cool to learn how it works from you guys.
@@Skyblade12 Whilst true, the optics on the Novalight aren't integrated, they're an add-on module. On a pistol. That you've normally got strapped to you hip or thigh as you go through doorways. I've smashed enough things into door frames that it's easy to imagine catching a holstered pistol in just the wrong way and snapping the mounting clamp off the add-on optic, rendering it useless even if the electronics are fine. Remember, *nothing* is soldier proof. If something can be broken a soldier will find a way to do it, and everything breaks with enough force applied to it. :)
@@davydatwood3158 Oh, indeed. I think his frustration here is more that the optics aren't integrated. He thinks they should be. That we'd have gotten to the point that they're standard on all weapons.
I think the main reason they all have iron sights is I believe that's the default configuration before you get into upgrading to laser sights etc. So they do come with more advanced sights, just not the base weapon usually.
I've gotta say, I just don't see "Iron sights" going away like he seems to think will happen. It would always be better imo to have some kind of built in or analog sight option in case of equipment or electronic failure. Idk. just my take.
With the varying atmospheres and temperature of planets, electronics could fail, while irons remain good. I don't see irons being default, but definitely like the P90, where there's always backup iron sights.
Agreed 100% as a Marine from 2004 that trained on the carry handle iron sights of the M16A2 I was very nervous when My brother went in and told me they were training with ACOGs only in 2014. What can go wrong will go wrong especially I combat and I would always want a backup pair of irons and training in using them effectively in case you break your awesome ACOG.
Excluding old earth weapons, all others use electric parts and mechanisms to function, so having iron sight as a backup option is kinda silly as any other electrical problem could render the gun inoperative. The way I see it, either old habits die hard and they are added coz it is the custom or simply because capitalism and selling holos is a good money maker *shrugs*.
The Magshear to me reminds me of the American Metal Storm project that didnt really go anywhere but was just a big metal box with electronically detonated chargers
When he mentioned square projectiles on the Microgun, I immediately thought of the Puckle Gun which in real life was loaded with square projectiles (as well as regular round ones).
Some ballistic handguns that have anything where there would be (or is something akin to) have what look to be copper tubing that is visible during reload animations. The best gun to see it on is the Kraken machine pistol. It gives you a really clear view of an obvious heatsink. The Eon has it, but it looks more like a small radiator with vents.
The detail they put into their various guns is just something else. To the point that in most cases you can see details within the barrel if you orient the camera ion that way.
for the razorback, you can see a secondary pin by the handle that has a star pattern for the rotation so really when the pistol is in firing position its fully supported in the center
honestly seeing the two i'd say the scorpion he showed of may have actualy been the primary inspiration used when they were designing the mealstrom, they certainly have a similar siloette
The one at 8:10 can also be viewed at an iteration on the defunct Metal Storm system, with the self-contained multi-cartridge working somewhat similarly, namely stacked, pre-loaded bullets with gun powder in between.
Glad we covered the AA-99 that's my favorite, I found a legendary version that had +10% against humans, occasional bleed damage, and occasional Tesla damage that can slow down and jump to other enemies. Then I got to NG+ annnnd it gone. :(
18:59 its kinda funny that he said that because if you look at space equipment, EVERYTHING is labeled. The control panel for the Apollo CSM for example probably decreased the worlds supply of Futura letterpress stamps by 10%. Taking things into space is so expensive that you want to make your systems as foolproof as possible, which means labeling everything. Of course, starfield is in the far future but I'd imagine the label on the gun is a remnant of past eras of space travel (plus Bethesda was going for a very NASA-inspired design language).
The long revolver has clearly been inspired by the UNICA 6, minus the breakopen style and the empty space between the barrel and the other upper tube. I know you guys love Ian from Forgotten Weapons so I'm gonna say that he has reviewed the UNICA in a recent video so go give him some love.. while most of the folk here will probably remember it from Rainbow Six Siege. Sick video guys!
8:17 , this gun actually reminded me and made me think of the "Metal Storm" prototype, that im not sure ever made it past early prototyping stages. I think the company ultimately died out, but their idea was actually rather neat, and years ahead of its time. Think they even have a few TH-cam videos still up.
I was thinking a lot of the same things looking at Starfield's arsenal. All the weapons look like they could be real... like the designers thought about how they would function. They are practical, nothing really absurd or silly. The stylization for each faction/manufacturer was consitant across each collection, they all had their little trademark features. Bethesda has been pretty decent at weapon design and weapon systems... there's some exceptions 🤭 I like being able to find unique builds of the standard weapons outnin the world. Thats pretty cool. Gun design hasn't changed all that much in the 800 years they been around, no reason to think there would be drastic design changes in the future. Even with the change in technology and function, a person still has to be able to carry, aim and operate a firearm. Though I think in the future we will have a backpack with a weapon on it thats automated, and it aims where your targeting retical is aimed by you looking at what you want to shoot. Completely hands free. Like the Predator. If humans are even fighting wars in-person anymore....
Just a thought regarding the really big "ears" on the Shotty: they're intended for use while wearing a spacesuit. Great big grip, while wearing great big gloves.
Even though I’ve gotten a game breaking bug that prevents me from docking with any ships (thus leaving me stuck on the second part of the main quest!) on both my play throughs, I’m still having a blast! If your a fallout fan, this game is SO MUCH FUN!! And there are like 100 different base weapons, it’s nuts.
I do think there's elements that justify some of the design choices; the fact that many worlds have very little infrastructure means that some of the lower-tech elements (e.g. ironsights) still make sense, at least to me. Also, I guess I never assumed real wood was used? But even if it is, the ligic that you need a factory to produce polymer but just hand tools to create wooden elements seems like a strong reason to use what's on-hand rather than manufacture polymer
Should have shown him the Regulator pistol with the Lawgiver. The styling ques from the rifle are done mainly to complement the pistol which is a hommage to the 12.7 mm pistol and "That Gun" (blade runner revolver) from previous fallout games.
26th week pushing for a Resistance, E.Y.E. Divine Cybermancy or Darkwatch episode. I know Darkwatch and Resistance are older, harder to obtain games but you're literally Gamespot, there are _no excuses_ to not have older games on this show.
You should fire a novalight at a wall close up and check out the impact. Its cool because they use the strike pattern of particles that are seen when they use a particle accelerator on a metal plate.
The Lawgiver is a revolver, with a magazine. The animations are also bugged, because in third person view, the metal piece covering the mag well slides forward correctly, but in first person in slides backwards onto the stock. In third person the player character also manually moves the mag cover back into place, but in first person does not, likely due to it having slid in the wrong direction.
The AK has "1968" etched into the receiver, which is nearly as confusing as the "Old Earth Hunting Rifle". My headcanon is that in the 24th century, they _think_ it must have been a hunting rifle.
A shame you guys didn't cover the Tombstone, that's my favorite right now. With all the attachments (like the strange, bent extended mag and the huge suppressor) it looks both amazing and ridiculous.
I think the Magshear gun (the one that fires the big block of ammunition) is actually inspired by the Metal Storm gun. There are videos of the Metal Storm firing at a rate of up to 1 million rounds per minute.
Also I think the reason the laser weapons fire rainbows with white in the center, is the color knowledge that white is every color mixed together, and black is the absence, when low velocity light is fired it can refract revealing more color than just white
Took me a minute to find it. The magshear gun reminds me of guns i saw on a documentary style reality show called futur weapons on discovery channel. The manufacturer was. Called metal storm. They loaded caseless ammo into a cylander magazine and fired with an electic sigbal oc some sort. Fbey have a 36 barrel prototype but had designs for handguns and automatic weapons that cohld fire their load virtyally recoil free in seconds. Was really cool.
I think the most similar firearm to the magshear is actually a project from a couple of decades ago called MetalStorm. Was hoping Jonathon was going to mention it in this series from the moment I saw it in game.
One thing in defense of the accuracy of the lasers, if you start going into the weapons modification options, there are details about there being focusing crystals in the lasers... so presumably the lasers somewhat go wild due to the limits of the focusing crystal.
If you do end up with more Starfield, I'd be curious on Jonathan's thoughts on the particle weapons, the ones that have split physical/EM damage. They leave a super interesting...bullet hole? Scorch mark? On the surfaces they hit. Not to mention it's an interesting concept, the merging of physical and energy projectiles.
17:10 In terms of batteries where we used to have Magazines.. There is no reason to have the keys of a keyboard in this style and order we do have since the original reason (the levers of mechanic typewriters not hooking with each other) is gone. We still do it because we are used to it, although we switched to computers more than typewriters for about 30 years now - the time span of a generation.
Surprised he didn't talk about the metal storm system which is definitely the main inspiration of the magshear and magstorm
I totally did. Editing. 😊
@@jonathanferguson1211 Gotcha, kinda makes me wish we could see the full uncut version of these videos.
@@jonathanferguson1211 Even if it's 2 hours long I'd love to see the full cut of the conversation posted somewhere honestly. I often catch myself wondering why you "didn't" notice something or left something out but I suspect it's just cut out for viewer retention metrics and all that nonsense
@@jonathanferguson1211hear that bro, we need the unedited uncut versions of these videos!
They did talk about it in the Crysis episode.
Having just a regular AK in space is the epitome of "Nyet rifle is fine, comrade"
I just wish the AK had a stock and it sounded better for some reason the ak and old world shotgun are like super thin compared all other guns and it feels kinda weird do use them
10 generations of Nyet rifle is fine товарищ
more like lazy devs
Wish they showed him more Vladof guns to get a feel of their design which is pretty much "More dAKka".
@@mikabakker1AKs are quite thin their not super wide weapons
I think for the shotty the reason it had the bulky bits for the charger is because they expect you to use it in a space suit so its to account for the less nimble fingers.
Yep, was thinking this as well.
Another reason is it may be a part used on both it and the Beowulf to save on manufacturing costs? The Beowulf has what seems to be the same handle but at the front afaik
This is probably the same reason for why the safety pins on the grenades are also quite large.
And maybe why AK has duck-taped another grip @@RevanAlaire
@@WillowGreenheart Yeah, that is quite probable.
Although, it is duct tape.
I really hoped that Dave would've shown the Old Earth Hunting rifle. I have no idea why Bethesda chose VSS Vintorez as old hunting rifle from Earth.
I wanted to see the Old Earth Shotgun so he could comment on the completely incorrect positioning of the forend.
It's already incredibly rare and a very niche weapon in the modern era
didn't he last episode? The hunting rifle i mean. oo lazy to check :)
I figured that name being attached to that gun was an attempt at ironic humour.
Like it's BLATANTLY not. But perhaps a bunch of people in the future with limited context and examples might misinterpret it as such.
Perhaps they thought labelling a 1911 as "Old earth ritual firearm" was too on the nose a joke at archeologists. :p
@@amstrad00Go watch Zach Hazard, he complained a bit about it but I think his final verdict was 'it's fine.'
Fun thing about the Urban Eagle. You use it thinking it's going to be a pistol with a nice bang but it's one of the most quiet pistols in the game.
The breach is the same except I love how quiet it is, feels like im nailing people with a stapler.
Tbf, I think all the weapons are a little too quiet. I wish there were different audio mix options.
I got a crazy high damage urban eagle early in the game and it's been my go to all the way so far. ~110 damage base, and it's only going to go up
I was pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoy Starfield's weapon design. It's such a massive leap forward from Fallout, for obvious reasons, but it's a welcomed change
Wish you could re-use the mods though.
@@vinceely2906 Once the CK releases I'll see what I can do about the lack of scrapping and reuse. Obviously we have access to SFSE already but without the CK I can't really make anything significant. Maybe I can even add those features in without SFSE, who knows. Depends. My goal is console support.
@@uptightsl Awesome, can't wait to see it on the Nexus
the horrible weapon design is the reason i quit playing Fallout4its just feel so wrong ，metro series did a much better job
sooooo many ammo types though
The fact that there has to be a pt 3 to Starfield’s weapons…there are so many toys to use in this game.
The only thing I was bummed about is that 90% are ballistic, if there were any setting that could allow more laser/energy weaponry it ought be this! But, the EM and Pulse and all that are pretty cool, even if ballistic is stronger, more plentiful, and more versatile.
@@JB-xl2jc my big bang needs a worth with you about ballistic being stronger.
@@JB-xl2jc Hm, the Big Bang, I think Particle Shortgun, is quite strong though, especially with upgrades.
That said I wonder if they'll level it out more in the future of the game when DLC's come into play, so likely a few new and exotic weapons too.
@@JB-xl2jcgiven how it's supposed to be near future, with space travel only possible for spoiler reasons, makes sense that guns haven't changed too much
@@tosfriendly There are actually 11 melee weapons. Varies melee weapons have mods already like poison. There are 45 different rifles, 36 pistols, 14 heavy weapons, and 11 shotguns. I do agree about dismemberment. It would have been nice to have. A flamethrower sounds cool, but incineration ammo or mod on a melee weapon has the same effect. Starfield does have some issues, but lacking weapons isn't one of them. I have about 35 hours into the game, and it's been great overall. Definitely not lacking in content.
Part of the reasoning behind the Orion being so clearly based on (modern-day) ballistic weapon aesthetics might be in-universe brand identity: the Orion is made by Allied Armaments, whose weapons look a bit more 'modern day' compared to other weapon manufacturers (Laredo Arms are the ones with the wood details, while Combatech have more 'futuristic' designs, for example the Equinox and Solstice from part 1).
Another thing that I think of about have a ballistic weapon aesthetic on a laser weapon if familiarity of use if the magazine or battery or whatever is where you would traditionally put a magazine I feel like muscle memory would help with at least initial training with the weapon.
Also I think part of why the Orion seems to have so much dispersion here is because it has nothing to focus on. When shooting at actual targets, it seems to have a convergence gimbal.
I thought it was a seperate manufacturer that made the Orion, on the battery pack, you can see the logo 'Orion Industries'
by the way, am I the only one here who thinks it was also inspired by the m41a?
@@ЛеонидМосковой not just you, someone pointed out it might be inspired.
I'm sure you've had a ton of feedback already but I just wanted to add to it: the back and forth between Dave and Jonathan adds quite a bit to these videos. Never stop it. :D
One thing interesting I noticed about the Orion from using it is the target acquisition on the two barrels. If you focus on a target for a second they will adjust (like not physically though) to have the convergence point of the lasers on that target. So that could explain the weird accuracy; it feels like the barrels are designed to move a bit and adjust, so when firing while moving around without a solid target they haven't focused yet.
The 6.5mm ammunition of the Maelstrom is labeled in-game as "6.5mm CT", with "CT" presumably standing for "Cased Telescoped". Similar in concept to some of the the rounds developed for the LSAT program, apparently, which even included a 6.5mm caliber.
The Magshear is most definitely a scaled down version of the Metal Storm weapons system. Which is actually a very fascinating, basically a modernization of the mitreilleuse concept. It was these blocks of barrels where a portion of the barrel was basically superimposed caseless bullets. It used an electrical priming system which would activate the first row and then the next row and move back in sequence. With 36-barrels it could achieve a firing rate of something like 27,000 RPM per barrel, it basically fires so fast it sounds like a single gunshot. And this wasn't small caliber, it was firing a 7.62mm projectile. A scaled down version of that technology would be like an ultra shotgun.
Thank you for saving me the time from having to dig that info up
Not to mention, Crysis 3 had the Typhoon which is the same inspiration to Metal Storm. ^^
It was capable of much higher RoF than 27K. Metal Storm topped out at 1MMRPM
I know that that was the overall fastest RPM with 36 barrels. to achieve that I believe it was 180 rounds with each barrel firing at a rate of 27K+ RPM per barrel. so when you multiply it out by 36 barrels comes out to an overral fire rate of about 1m RPM. Still ridiculous firepower but the system got scrapped for a reason it was too expensive and just not as practical as say an M2 or a 20mm autocannon. I wonder if a shoulderfired concept would be feasible nowadays, id imagine the recoil would be very unpleasant. @@scarter910
And they built a 40mm discarding sabot version as well .
With the amount of weapons in this game I'm expecting at least 5 more episodes. 🙃
Jonathan is so good at bringing things down so people can understand.
I found all of the square-bored weapons in Starfield quite interesting, would have loved to hear more of a perspective on that. Love the series as always.
Square bullets? There must be quite a few heathens in need of "convincing of the benefits of Christian civilization" in Starfield, I guess.
i cant remember the name but there was a mecha anime series i watched years ago there they also used square amunition. maybe one of the devs was a fan of this show.
The square bullets are for shooting Space-Turks
The main reason why guns seem to have so much recoil in the game is because in early gameplay demos they didn't. They barely had any. Which generated a lot of commentary together with the other issues with the gunplay at that point about how the weapons were lacking feeling. The recoil is mostly there to give the guns more presence, to give the player the feeling they're firing a gun that has some significant force behind it.
I'd liked to say that it's better to male them more realistic, but honestly it actually does feel bland and uninteresting when your guns are weightless and ergonomic to the point of forgetting they're there.
I'd liked to say that it's better to male them more realistic, but honestly it actually does feel bland and uninteresting when your guns are weightless and ergonomic to the point of forgetting they're there.
I’ve actually never understood the “This gun has crazy recoil!” That gaming has. I shoot regularly and anyone who does can tell you that the more you shoot, the less recoil affects you, you’ll be able to keep an AK-47 fairly level for example even without a stock
Also works in 0g, with less sway but the recoil pushes you backwards so you can practically pull a wall-e with a microgun to move around when you don’t have a boostpack/can’t use it
@@swordsgaming3864 You literally replied to a (partial) explanation of why. Realistic recoil doesn't "feel" strong enough to communicate a sense of power from firing the weapon.
I'm surprised Jonathan didn't notice that the Orion was based off of the pulse rifle from Alien. If you gave him the full view he would notice it. It even has the same red alarm clock style ammo counter.
It's got a very pulse rifle sorta silhouette from the side. Just fold the stock back up and you'll get something similar.
Johnathan mentioned in a comment about the magshear and magstorm, that some of his comments are on the cutting room floor for the edit. so he may have mentioned it
I'm always fascinated by fictional technology that could kind-of-sort-of-maybe-possibly work.
If there does end up being a part 3, I'd be interested in ending on an overview of which guns are made by which manufacturers (CombaTech, Laredo, Kore Kinetics, etc), and seeing Jonathan's thoughts on overall stylistic differences.
Yes and it'd help people like me who recognize the styles but don't own the game.
I am surprised that Jonathan didn't mention the "Metalstorm" system when it came to the Magshear gun. To my eyes, the Magshear (as well as the rest of its type) seems the most similar to the Metalstorm system, especially considering there are multiple bullets in one barrel (3 per barrel for 75 total), which was exactly the idea of the Metalstorm platform
apparently he did, it got edited out though :(
jonathonferguson1211 replied to larrisAWSOME's comment that editing was the culprit.
The MagTech weapons reminds me of the Metal Storm weapon systems that were so popular like 15 years ago
Yeah, that's what I'm pretty sure they're based off of, aesthetically.
magshear does wicked damage absolutely one shots like everything
Dave becoming more and more of an expert with each episode is cute.
I´ve noticed as well. He´s getting better at this
Yeah it's awesome. I hope he keeps appearing in more episodes. I like the dynamic between him and Jonathan.
I'm surprised he didnt' tell Jon about the Dardrick Tround. And Jon didn't recognize it.
I'm actually really liking the occasional discussion and commentary between them. Makes it feel a bit less like someone just talking at you the whole time (not that Johnathan isn't great himself obv).
@@FistAss Yeah same here. It feels more like a full experience.
It would be really cool if your monopropellant jets were firing off to stabilize you while firing the microgun.
there's a mod idea!
Truly a miracle, keep up the good work, can we just have Jonathan be considered an Honorary Gamespot member? ;-;
One potential reason for the telescoping ammo especially in a vacuum is that it can insulate the chamber from heating. Instead of relying on the brass case to carry away the heat you rely on the polymer to prevent that heat from transfering to the chamber.
I can only think of one other game with a metal storm inspired weapon system, and it's Crysis 3 with the Typhoon - was always my favourite gun in that one, these things are just so cool.
There are so many guns in Starfield, looking forward to part 23
I loved it when John just got side tracked, and started talking in-depth about the Scorpion Evo, even though he mentioned how it and the Maelstrom are only similar in role alone.
I’m so used to Matt Easton talking about the Royal Armouries that I didn’t even imagine modern firearms being displayed! I have got to get my company to send me over on training.
Jonathan and his voice will always make me happy. I love weaponry and video game weaponry, but to be honest, Jonathan makes it all the better.
Wonderful. :)
Note: The sights are a modification slot in basically each weapon, with iron sights usually being the most basic modification option. Depending on the weapon, other modifications include reflex sights, holo-sights and various scopes. The reason, that so many weapons are shown with iron sights, is simply because the most basic modding options are shown.
I think his main point is that some attachments on firearms are such across-the-board improvements on iron sights that he believes they'd be installed integrally and/or the gun would basically not be available or used without them. That point is made more extensively in earlier episodes.
It's also for player's benefit. Not all players like to use scopes. I was given an EM rifle for the UC quest. It had a short scope. I removed and replaced it with iron sights the first chance I got.
@@chadharger9323 Yeah that's one of the things I think is definitely for players because some players love iron sights only. For me it depends on the gun.
It also makes sense from a logical standpoint that iron sights would never fully go away. Iron sights are much harder to break than holographic or reflex sights. I would imagine that keeping iron sights on weapons even so far into the future would be a simple and cost effective insurance policy in the event the tech breaks down.
What he's saying is that optics technology today is at the point that pistols have red dots on them, so it wouldn't make sense in the future that iron sights would be standard anymore.
I'm surprised the tube going from the barrel to the ammo counter on the Maelstrom wasn't mentioned.
I've thought about it a bit, and think it might be that the ammo counter uses a pressure-activation system. Any time a round is fired and leaves the barrel, some of the expelled gas feeds through the tube, that pressure triggers the counter to tick down a round. There might also be a trigger in the magazine well that detects if the mag is dropped and a new one is inserted, and that resets the counter.
I really want to see Jonathan break down the guns from The Order 1886
I second this!
Same just so I can stop seeing this kind of comment every Saturday. Ffs
I believed the bad reviews at the time and didn't get a copy. I've decided that I will - alternate reality Victorians fighting werewolves? Has to be done.
That would be really cool to see tbh
YaY
I'd like to thank Jonathan for not flagging the viewers with the muzzle when showing us any firearm. What a great guy🤘
I wonder if the games MAG weapons also take some inspiration from the Metal Storm caseless weapon that went around the internet a decade ago?
There like that with a replaceable ammo block.
Makes sense for space as you'd replace the hot breech/ ammo block.
The guy actually commented above saying that he noticed that and commented on it but it wasn’t included in the editing.
@@Funymoney010I can't find that comment. Can you point to it?
5:30 polymer case ammunition runs even cooler than brass cased, and heat rejection is a big issue in space. So you might have caseless for the ammunition load and logistics, or pick polyer cased for some percentage of the benefits of caseless but better vacuum performance
Part 3 is a MUST! Love these videos keep em coming
There's a small detail with the reload of the Razerback that is commonly overlooked; the clip actually opens and closes a bit as you ready the gun after reloading.
I'm pretty sure Bethesda based the Magshear off the old prototype Metalstorm weapons, where you had multiple rounds stacked in each barrel and would be electronically fired starting with the rounds at the front and then working its way back.
Found the old video of some test firings: th-cam.com/video/AEu9LLQpOF8/w-d-xo.html
Please do a Part 3, so many cool guns in this game. Also, Dave and Jonathan should do an episode talking about Caseless ammunition. It would be really cool to learn how it works from you guys.
The tiny little iron sights on the Novalight make sense to me if you think of them as an emergency backup because you broke your red-dot.
If you’re breaking electronic bits on an EM weapon, the lack of a red dot is the least of your problems. The entire weapon wouldn’t work.
@@Skyblade12 Whilst true, the optics on the Novalight aren't integrated, they're an add-on module. On a pistol. That you've normally got strapped to you hip or thigh as you go through doorways. I've smashed enough things into door frames that it's easy to imagine catching a holstered pistol in just the wrong way and snapping the mounting clamp off the add-on optic, rendering it useless even if the electronics are fine.
Remember, *nothing* is soldier proof. If something can be broken a soldier will find a way to do it, and everything breaks with enough force applied to it. :)
@@davydatwood3158 Oh, indeed. I think his frustration here is more that the optics aren't integrated. He thinks they should be. That we'd have gotten to the point that they're standard on all weapons.
really enjoying having a little more dave back and forth with jonathan
Another great episode. I'm playing Starfield and loving it.
I think the main reason they all have iron sights is I believe that's the default configuration before you get into upgrading to laser sights etc. So they do come with more advanced sights, just not the base weapon usually.
Any chance we could get Jonathan to look at all the various "firearms" in Armored Core 6?
I've gotta say, I just don't see "Iron sights" going away like he seems to think will happen. It would always be better imo to have some kind of built in or analog sight option in case of equipment or electronic failure. Idk. just my take.
With the varying atmospheres and temperature of planets, electronics could fail, while irons remain good.
I don't see irons being default, but definitely like the P90, where there's always backup iron sights.
Agreed 100% as a Marine from 2004 that trained on the carry handle iron sights of the M16A2 I was very nervous when My brother went in and told me they were training with ACOGs only in 2014. What can go wrong will go wrong especially I combat and I would always want a backup pair of irons and training in using them effectively in case you break your awesome ACOG.
Excluding old earth weapons, all others use electric parts and mechanisms to function, so having iron sight as a backup option is kinda silly as any other electrical problem could render the gun inoperative. The way I see it, either old habits die hard and they are added coz it is the custom or simply because capitalism and selling holos is a good money maker *shrugs*.
@@TresTrefusis Would have to shoot an ACOG to break it
If nothing else, ironsights are lightweight, cheap and unobstructive - there's very little reason not to add them
I'd love to see Jonathan's response to the weapons in Far Cry 2, especially with the maintenance and weapon-wear system.
The Magshear to me reminds me of the American Metal Storm project that didnt really go anywhere but was just a big metal box with electronically detonated chargers
When he mentioned square projectiles on the Microgun, I immediately thought of the Puckle Gun which in real life was loaded with square projectiles (as well as regular round ones).
For killing Space-Turks
9:15
also theres a naval ciws system called meroka , used by Spanish navy ships wich is in grid pattern
it has 12 20mm cannons in 2 rows of 6
Some ballistic handguns that have anything where there would be (or is something akin to) have what look to be copper tubing that is visible during reload animations.
The best gun to see it on is the Kraken machine pistol. It gives you a really clear view of an obvious heatsink. The Eon has it, but it looks more like a small radiator with vents.
I think the Magshear is meant to be more representative of the Metal Storm gun
I was suprised that Jonathan didn't make the connection. The Magshear and Magstorm seem to me like portable implementations of metal storm
Exactly my thought aswell.
The detail they put into their various guns is just something else. To the point that in most cases you can see details within the barrel if you orient the camera ion that way.
for the razorback, you can see a secondary pin by the handle that has a star pattern for the rotation so really when the pistol is in firing position its fully supported in the center
13:52 Dread it, run from it, you can never escape the Kalashnikov
honestly seeing the two i'd say the scorpion he showed of may have actualy been the primary inspiration used when they were designing the mealstrom, they certainly have a similar siloette
these are some of my favorite videos
The one at 8:10 can also be viewed at an iteration on the defunct Metal Storm system, with the self-contained multi-cartridge working somewhat similarly, namely stacked, pre-loaded bullets with gun powder in between.
Glad we covered the AA-99 that's my favorite, I found a legendary version that had +10% against humans, occasional bleed damage, and occasional Tesla damage that can slow down and jump to other enemies. Then I got to NG+ annnnd it gone. :(
it was basically a bolt gun lite with the explosive rounds
Hard Target and Grendel are my go-tos.
18:59 its kinda funny that he said that because if you look at space equipment, EVERYTHING is labeled. The control panel for the Apollo CSM for example probably decreased the worlds supply of Futura letterpress stamps by 10%. Taking things into space is so expensive that you want to make your systems as foolproof as possible, which means labeling everything. Of course, starfield is in the far future but I'd imagine the label on the gun is a remnant of past eras of space travel (plus Bethesda was going for a very NASA-inspired design language).
The long revolver has clearly been inspired by the UNICA 6, minus the breakopen style and the empty space between the barrel and the other upper tube. I know you guys love Ian from Forgotten Weapons so I'm gonna say that he has reviewed the UNICA in a recent video so go give him some love.. while most of the folk here will probably remember it from Rainbow Six Siege.
Sick video guys!
One of the first mod skills you learn in game is how to replace stock iron sights with lots of other options, including lasers and even thermals.
Dave and Jonathan banter is the best
Dave, I for one think the gyroget is an incredibly cool little gun and I think it deserves all of the explanations!
8:17 , this gun actually reminded me and made me think of the "Metal Storm" prototype, that im not sure ever made it past early prototyping stages.
I think the company ultimately died out, but their idea was actually rather neat, and years ahead of its time. Think they even have a few TH-cam videos still up.
I was hoping to get Jonathan's thoughts on the Lawgiver and here we are, only 2 episodes of probably 10 into the weapons of Starfield.
i was hoping he was gonna talk about its name
please do a part 3. The first gun in this video is the Advanced AA-99 my favorite gun in the game.
Razorback's barrel is based on a MTs-3 target pistol.
I like this more " chill " version of a video with Dave.
I was thinking a lot of the same things looking at Starfield's arsenal.
All the weapons look like they could be real... like the designers thought about how they would function. They are practical, nothing really absurd or silly. The stylization for each faction/manufacturer was consitant across each collection, they all had their little trademark features.
Bethesda has been pretty decent at weapon design and weapon systems... there's some exceptions 🤭 I like being able to find unique builds of the standard weapons outnin the world. Thats pretty cool.
Gun design hasn't changed all that much in the 800 years they been around, no reason to think there would be drastic design changes in the future. Even with the change in technology and function, a person still has to be able to carry, aim and operate a firearm.
Though I think in the future we will have a backpack with a weapon on it thats automated, and it aims where your targeting retical is aimed by you looking at what you want to shoot. Completely hands free.
Like the Predator.
If humans are even fighting wars in-person anymore....
Just a thought regarding the really big "ears" on the Shotty: they're intended for use while wearing a spacesuit. Great big grip, while wearing great big gloves.
I’m glad there was a part two so he could see the ED gun
On the shotty the bulky handles is for use in space when using bulky space gloves for ease of use.
The Urban Eagle. It got tired of living in the Desert so moved to the city.
Even though I’ve gotten a game breaking bug that prevents me from docking with any ships (thus leaving me stuck on the second part of the main quest!) on both my play throughs, I’m still having a blast! If your a fallout fan, this game is SO MUCH FUN!! And there are like 100 different base weapons, it’s nuts.
I do think there's elements that justify some of the design choices; the fact that many worlds have very little infrastructure means that some of the lower-tech elements (e.g. ironsights) still make sense, at least to me. Also, I guess I never assumed real wood was used? But even if it is, the ligic that you need a factory to produce polymer but just hand tools to create wooden elements seems like a strong reason to use what's on-hand rather than manufacture polymer
It’s worth noting the magshear is the similar in concept to the typhoon from Crysis 3.
Should have shown him the Regulator pistol with the Lawgiver. The styling ques from the rifle are done mainly to complement the pistol which is a hommage to the 12.7 mm pistol and "That Gun" (blade runner revolver) from previous fallout games.
I love the urban eagle in game it’s so powerful
26th week pushing for a Resistance, E.Y.E. Divine Cybermancy or Darkwatch episode. I know Darkwatch and Resistance are older, harder to obtain games but you're literally Gamespot, there are _no excuses_ to not have older games on this show.
You should fire a novalight at a wall close up and check out the impact. Its cool because they use the strike pattern of particles that are seen when they use a particle accelerator on a metal plate.
I always thought the multi-barrel Magtech was reminiscent of the Metal Storm multi-barrel, multi-load firearm concept.
The Lawgiver is a revolver, with a magazine. The animations are also bugged, because in third person view, the metal piece covering the mag well slides forward correctly, but in first person in slides backwards onto the stock. In third person the player character also manually moves the mag cover back into place, but in first person does not, likely due to it having slid in the wrong direction.
I am so glad you guys finally upgraded his camera
I saw Matt Best from BRCC shoot a live 7.62 minigun from the hip. It made him slide back three or four feet like he was on ice... Crazy...
The Novalight just reminds me of the laser thermometers I use at work lol
The AK has "1968" etched into the receiver, which is nearly as confusing as the "Old Earth Hunting Rifle".
My headcanon is that in the 24th century, they _think_ it must have been a hunting rifle.
A shame you guys didn't cover the Tombstone, that's my favorite right now. With all the attachments (like the strange, bent extended mag and the huge suppressor) it looks both amazing and ridiculous.
Rob Liefeld must've dropped by BGS one day and designed the Tombstone. I feel like Cable hauling that thing around.
I think the Magshear gun (the one that fires the big block of ammunition) is actually inspired by the Metal Storm gun. There are videos of the Metal Storm firing at a rate of up to 1 million rounds per minute.
Also I think the reason the laser weapons fire rainbows with white in the center, is the color knowledge that white is every color mixed together, and black is the absence, when low velocity light is fired it can refract revealing more color than just white
Took me a minute to find it. The magshear gun reminds me of guns i saw on a documentary style reality show called futur weapons on discovery channel. The manufacturer was. Called metal storm. They loaded caseless ammo into a cylander magazine and fired with an electic sigbal oc some sort. Fbey have a 36 barrel prototype but had designs for handguns and automatic weapons that cohld fire their load virtyally recoil free in seconds. Was really cool.
I think the most similar firearm to the magshear is actually a project from a couple of decades ago called MetalStorm. Was hoping Jonathon was going to mention it in this series from the moment I saw it in game.
The mac 10 inspired one in last video had a top heatsink as well when you reload it opens the top to let the heat sink show and guess expel heat
Pushing as always for you guys to have Jonathan cover Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter and to cover the M8 and MRI Caseless specifically as well.
Heres a question thats been asked before . Why would a laser have recoil ?
One thing in defense of the accuracy of the lasers, if you start going into the weapons modification options, there are details about there being focusing crystals in the lasers... so presumably the lasers somewhat go wild due to the limits of the focusing crystal.
If you do end up with more Starfield, I'd be curious on Jonathan's thoughts on the particle weapons, the ones that have split physical/EM damage. They leave a super interesting...bullet hole? Scorch mark? On the surfaces they hit. Not to mention it's an interesting concept, the merging of physical and energy projectiles.
Shotty charging handles could be for master key type configuration
I believe the Magshear and those whole ammo lines is a direct reference to the Metal Storm Turret program...
17:10
In terms of batteries where we used to have Magazines..
There is no reason to have the keys of a keyboard in this style and order we do have since the original reason (the levers of mechanic typewriters not hooking with each other) is gone.
We still do it because we are used to it, although we switched to computers more than typewriters for about 30 years now - the time span of a generation.