It just clicked for me that the suitcase is a metaphor for the pandemic, I mean, it literally gets passed from person to person. I think the weird positive spin on Joy's death and the creation of the star is even supposed to be a "hey, a terrible thing has happened, but the people who died are still with us, looking over us in some way, so, no matter how dark things may seem, there is still joy" and I think that's sweet
I really like this interpretation and agree with the reading. Except, while I think that it is 'sweet...' I don't think its _true._ Similarly to quite a few SM Christmas Specials, this ending is far more idealistic than actually honest. The message at the end SOUNDS nice but it isn't ACTUALLY nice and if you think about it it breaks down into something quite awful actually. A harsh truth is always more compelling than a pleasant lie. That makes it sound like I'm a grinch or a scrooge doesn't it? I guess what I'm saying is I don't necessarily find it moving or compelling because I think it comes from a basis of "I wish this is how things were" than from a "this *IS* how things are." But still, I do agree that this is the intention. The star is about Hope
@dwfan91-In fairness, this is a Christmas special. I imagine a typical episode would have dealt with those issues differently, yes, but we’re looking at an episode designed to be watched by a roaring fire with a cup of hot cocoa. Christmas is the definition of idealistic and wish-fulfillment. I dont want my parents to tell me they bought all the toys under the tree, I want them to tell me Santa brought them down the chimney. There’s a time and place for raw honesty, but Christmas is a time for fantasy and joyful fictions
@dwfan91- Okay, I have to rewatch the episode, but I've been thinking about the ending for some time now, and I don't think it's a cynical view on Christmas, but rather more of Moffat's view on artificial afterlifes. The best comparison, I think, is series 10, with the Star Seed here being the Pilot, and Joy's Mom standing in for Bill. There are discussions that can be had about how Moffat writes these kinds of things and the moral and ethical and philosophical implications of that, going back all the way to River Song and The Library, of course, but I think that once you draw that parallel between Joy to the The World and The Pilot/The Doctor Falls the episode makes much more sense than when observed in a vacuum, starting with how the Doctor reacts to the Star Seed absorbing Joy and all the other people. So I don't think Moffat is being disingenuous there. Then there's the Villengard aspect, which Joy quickly addresses in one line, when she says "this is so much bigger than Villengard". The way I interpret it is that, even though the Star Seed idea came from an evil corporation, you still can find beauty in it as a collateral effect. I personally even feel like you could draw parallels between that and art being produced by gigantic corporations that don't really seem to care about the art they produce except as means to an end (see Disney, or even the BBC), but that may be reading into it too much.
You’re the first person to mention this and help me realize this because in all honesty throughout the entire episode, I was just convinced that the suitcase was an evolved form of the silence
Acknowledging that COVID was a thing is considered controversial? It was literally the only hard hitting thing, in the literal sense it felt so real and THAT scenario was literally what people went through... Like, I really appreciated it.
I felt it was in bad taste to dredge up trauma on Christmas day. How many people who lost family during COVID and couldn't visit them were watching this episode?
@i mean, a christmas carol has an extremely similar plot line; a sick loved one and the desire to see them one final time. it’s sad but fundamentally uplifting by the end. all the best christmas media has great sadness before the hope of christmas saves them.
@i mean, a christmas carol has an extremely similar plot line; a sick loved one and the desire to see them one final time. it’s sad but fundamentally uplifting by the end. all the best christmas media has great sadness before the hope of christmas saves them.
I know most of the Jodie Whittaker era up to Revolution of the Daleks were filmed prior to 2020 but you'd think from Flux to Power, it might've gotten a hint considering how they were set in 2021/2022 and written during the pandemic. I thought the Doctor Who world wasn't even affected by COVID anyway.
@Ana-rf5cuI have strong belief that Anita will be kinda like the next Donna, one off appearance at first, but so successful in the role that she’ll come back as a main stay
Until seeing this video, I hadn't actually seen any negativity towards the covid aspect. Infact I thought it was one of the best things the episode did. It was such a relevant way to explore loneliness at Christmas and considering a lot of people (myself included) lost people during the pandemic, I found it to be really respectful. The episode overall had a mixture of good bits and bad bits but that along with Anita's storyline were definitely the strongest points for me.
When I posted the video, I hadn't seen anyone else's thoughts (still haven't actually I went to sleep right after finishing and scheduling the video) but I assumed that would be what people would be complaining about. Happy to know people aren't because I thought it was rather good :D
watching the Unleashed episode on this Christmas Special reminded me that this was actually filmed back in 2023, before the Church on Ruby Road even went out. Which makes me think that this was made even closer to Covid being on everyone's mind.
7:26 The way I read it was : She lost her mother to the plague, an event that was bitter and traumatizing enough as it is because she felt like she failed her mom in a time of need, And then she found out what the people in charge were doing- The people who held her back from getting to see her *Mother* before she died, and she was furious at them and mad at herself. I don't think anything about the show was insulting her at all, and while I wish she'd had a better ending (I think it's sort of a shame that she died, But I think in some ways the end result was beautiful and I cried when the scene with the Mom happened at the end) I think ultimately it was a really well written and bitterly realistic character which I enjoyed watching!
i honestly really loved this episode. I didn't have a problem with Joy's lack of screentime, maybe because I didn't pay much attention to the trailers and I didn't speculate before I watched it. I loved how the doctor bounced around loads of different characters, showing how sociable he is. I also loved the concept of the suitcase, the hotel, Villainguard, the star. Obviously it wasn't perfect, but since when is Doctor who that. It seems as if people are craving perfect, but since when is perfection a healthy goal in life!
I don't have a problem at all, I loved Anita. With that said, I'm calling it now, its gonna come out in the future that some of Joy's scenes were cut. Her journey really does feel like key moments were missing
This is exactly how I feel. This line in particular though "Obviously it wasn't perfect, but since when is Doctor who that. It seems as if people are craving perfect, but since when is perfection a healthy goal in life!" I don't need Doctor who to be perfect. I need it to be fun. It seems a lot of people don't feel the same sadly.
So my mother ended up getting put in hospice about 2 to 3 days before Christmas and on the 26th, she passed away I didn’t have Disney+ and I couldn’t watch the Doctor Who Christmas special on Christmas Day but today the 27th I decided to watch the Christmas special just as something to do to get my mind off of everything and I don’t think I could’ve asked for a more perfect time for it to come obviously a Doctor Who episode I didn’t really fixed anything, but it has lifted my spirits a little bit, even for a short while
It was a 7 out of 10 episode that 7 out of 10'd. A fine episode with some wholesome and emotional moments. Definitely not Steven Moffatts best Christmas Special but not his worst either
I don't have enough to base this theory on but I just have a hunch that a lot of scenes probably had to be cut due to time contraints. The episode was what, like, 56 minutes I think? Not that it needed to be a feature-length movie or anything but that is comparably shorter than most other Christmas specials in the past. It would explain the lack of fleshing out Joy's character and why Moffat wouldn't compromise on the Anita segment because more than anything, that part of the episode just had irreplaceable character development for this Doctor that we just needed to see.
I loved this episode. I understood the ending a bit different. It was not a good thing that these people died, but with Joy's 'sacrifice' it was just a little less devastating end to them. Joy didn't die, she united with the starseed and so did the other ones and were able to continue to exist in a different form. I also thought that Joy wasn't mind controlled anymore but it was her free decision, because she experienced the essence of the starseed and felt a connection with it. The mind control was a Villengard thing, not the starseeds doing. The reuniting with her mother was an unexpected gift to and kind of a reward for joy and closed a wound in her heart that otherwise never could have healed. I think it was beautifully done and I cried my eyes out at the end.
the reason I disagree is because she literally glowed orange and her whole demeanour and expressions changed to highlight she was being influenced. But I am very glad it could work for you I think thats amazing
I feel like you actually managed to sum up the way I too felt about this episode really really well. I absolutely loved the most part of it. Loved Anita, loved the idea of the Hotel, I was even fine with the Doctor picking on Joy until she got angry, - that's just in the end something very Doctor, even if we haven't seen it that much from 15, a lot of the other Doctors have done it a multitude of times. But Joy's resolution actually bugged me so much I had to sit down in my room for a solid 30 minutes to think about WHY it annoyed me that much. And I feel like it just bordered a little too close to a pro suicide/pro giving up message to me. I KNOW it definetly wasn't intended that way... But somehow the 'you can take agency despite living under an awful system and make something beautiful out of it' didn't really come all that through to me? Maybe I am misreading Joy, but there was just something about it. The rest of the episode was really enjoyable though.
I think the turnaround from "this is a dangerous thing that the bad guys are doing, it's killing innocent people and is dangerous to the whole earth" to "we're in control now and it's okay actually, in fact it's a good thing that will give people hope" was pretty whiplash inducing, plus it was only covered by a line from Joy and the Doctor believing and trusting that she actually knew what she was talking about there. So it needed more work to really make me believe in it.
@@badger_shorts7708 sort of but they're still alive "in spirit" as the star, and their consciousness was uploaded to the database after their actual "death".
Watched it late but i was just smiling, it was just emjoyable to me. Loved all the chatacters, story flowed well, great pacing and i was happy while watching it. Although, i do agree that the ending isnt tackled great but it doesnt ruin it for me Edit: God is ncuti just so lovable, he can do all areas from joy (get it) to sadness and the guy just makes me happy
one thing that I'm confused about is who made the platform 65 million years in the past? I don't remember exactly what he said but I'm pretty sure that right before the dinosaur shows up the doctor himself says something along the lines of "humans have only been around for a few thousand years" or something similar to that
Owners of the time hotel of course. If they have technology to create time portals they can create portal to any te they want. And remember that actual manager of hotel is a silurian, he's from that era
@@Caramiela I did consider that maybe a Silurian made it but I rationalised that the time hotel is for humans to see other parts of their history but that does go against the managers backstory now that you bring it up
i loved this episode, honestly haven’t felt joy after watching a dw episode for so long (not that every episode needs to bring joy but i’ve missed it!) also i’d love if u did a q&a girl
I am the 2nd person on TH-cam who loves the 2 parter finale of season 1. It's incredible. I'm glad you liked this episode to some degree. I've been very vocal about my thoughts, especially around Joy and how much I love Ncuti's development as the doctor here but man this episode did disappoint.
Tbh I found the episode to be pretty decent, and it kept me fully engaged up until the scene where the suitcase gets passed on to Joy. I just felt it started to decline onwards from that point, but there were highlights in between, like the Doctor chilling at the hotel for a year with Anita that was alright. It kinda felt a bit 11th Doctorish. What I mean by that is we actually get to see the Doctor's socially awkward, alien-side, which is to be expected when we have Moffat on board. I kinda like how the Doctor eventually adapts and starts to be a bit more human. But after that ended, I started to rapidly lose interest in the actual main plotline of the suitcase thingy. The pacing just felt a bit clunky, confusing, and odd at times. But I gotta say Trev was the highlight of the episode; he got the bad end of the stick. And man, that Villengard company needs to update their security. How are these ghosts slipping through their system? lol. And Nicola Coughlan was barely in the episode, and she had really nothing to do. That was a bit disappointing. I thought it was going to be a bit like The Runaway Bride, but with time portals. The ending for me wasn't it. The CGI made me laugh, and it looked quite goofy with her floating up, and the ending felt a bit abrupt. The cinematography at points was really good, though. I do appreciate how they addressed COVID; I didn't find it too bad. I felt Joy's lines talking about it was convincing and handled well, but the ending with her Mum was I don't know how to feel about it.
I spent christmas eve at my parents house, and my little sister insisted we watched "Its Christmastime Again, Charlie Brown," a short made in 1992 that followed up on some themes from the original classic. While I don't really watch things like this normally, I'm really glad she forced me into it, because it honestly put me into the mood for this christmas special. The short mostly consisted of small interactions between people, with corny punchlines thrown in here and there.. the overarching plot existed, but wasn't as strong as the moment-to-moment scenes. It was more concerned with selling the viewer a feeling or making them smile than delivering a consistent story... as if you were reading directly out of the Charlie Brown comic itself. I felt that this episode was much the same in tone. The small moments where the Doctor interacted with people, like the Silurian's death or Joy's breakdown about her mother, seemed to hold more importance than the convoluted plot itself. I've already seen people complain that the tangent with Anita felt out of place, but when watching with the viewpoint of "emotional moments>overall plot," I absolutely adored that section. I had the same issue you did where the end scene felt kinda icky and it really seems as if the big bad corporation won... In that same scene though, there's a conversation where the Doctor shows concern about what's happening and Joy dismisses him, assuring that this isn't about villengard anymore and what she's doing is something bigger, so maybe that can be explained away? I don't know, it still feels weird but I can understand the feeling they were going for. I'll have to rewatch it and see how it holds up. Side note but, oh my god this episode was hilarious! That line about the plunger caught me off guard and had me dying lmao.. Really great video, I always love seeing your analysis! Hope you're having an awesome holiday season 🎄
Thank you so so much for the kind and amazing comment, I think everything you said is 100% true. I probably do have to rewatch in full, I did look at that end scene again though and still am not fully convinced... can probably be pulled over though if given enough time. Thank you, thank you and thank you again my good friend :D Happy new year!!
Part of me wonders if Joy will fight against Villengard, as they literally saw “We are beyond Villengard now” which gives me the impression that they are, or at least believe themselves to be, something greater than Villengard could’ve ever hoped to be and something out of their control
The way I read that line is, because they are under mind control, they believe themselves to be something greater but they aren't actually. you cant really trust what someone has to say while they're under mind control
That episode was PEAK!!! I’d give it… 8/10. Maybe a bit more because I just love Doctor Who so much The plot was a TON of fun! A TIME HOTEL?? Can I stay there? The star turning out to become the star of Bethlehem?? A stroke of literary genius. I’m glad the writers didn’t skip the year long wait and let us go through the Doctor taking the long way round alongside him. Anita (MY GOAT!!!) and the Doctor had SUCH a great dynamic, and it made the Doctor’s eventual departure from regular life really feel monumental and sad. I didn’t mind Joy’s ending that much, though if I had a nickel for every time a character the Doctor interacted with died and turned into a powerful space being I’d have.. at least 3 nickels in nuwho alone HAHA I do think the ending for Joy and the star in general could have been handled a bit better. Like yes, the star had to be born one way or another for the plot, but Joy was basically being mind controlled into sacrificing herself, just like everyone else at the beginning. It feels like the characters didn’t really achieve anything; like the events of the story all would’ve happened almost the exact same way whether the Doctor intervened or not. I believe the scene where Joy’s mom becomes part of the star really undercuts Joy's character arc in favor of a final feel-good scene. Her mother’s death was significant to her character, so I would’ve preferred it if.. say, Joy had used her star power to astral project herself into the room to be with her mother as she died? To me at least, I think that would’ve felt more fulfilling to witness. Overall I still rank it pretty amazing. Yeah it has some flaws, but they didn’t ruin my viewing experience. I still had a great time watching it so it’s a W in my book. ❤
I really feel like the reason the people who got killed are happy is because of the whole telepathic psychic circuit thing that the Doctor mentioned, we even see Joy’s eyes flash golden just from looking at it and I feel like that’s part of why everyone in the other time periods looked at it with hope, they’re all being affected by the conditioning of the telepathic circuit. I really feel like Joy and Villengard will return eventually, some people disagree with me but I feel like there’s too many unanswered questions
Glad to see someone else critiquing what happens to Joy. I couldn't grasp at all why they glorifying what was her essentially committing suicide over the trauma of her mother's death and them not being able to see each other. That really, really bothered me.
I really, really loved this episode. I think the Doctor's Year was worth the price of admission, alone, and sold me on Ncuti's version of the character. I've always found the times where the Doctor decides to stay in one place to give the most profound explorations of him. I think the Star Seed plotline and Joy as a character were incredibly undercooked, with the ending having been very baffling, with the only thing that salvaged any of that part of the story in my mind was the Covid Commentary and the scene in the hospital. I had a relative that passed alone in the hospital during the pandemic and no one could come see him, so that scene broke my heart. I think this episode really should've been two separate concepts, with the main premise being the Doctor staying in the Hotel Room, and the Star Seed/Joy plots being left to cook more for a future episode. But I very much enjoyed myself, I think this was Moffet (and the show's) best showing since Twice Upon a Time. It felt like Moffat characterized 15 as his own iteration in this episode, rather than Smith 2.0 like in Boom (which I will admit I enjoyed initially because I'd missed Moffat's writing style so much).
I enjoyed greatly that they addressed covid without saying the word. "the rules" was plenty for me to have it click without drawing too much trauma and hatred for that time period for me.
Not much really happend. I didnt hate it, some parts are actually very nice, but the general plot didnt striked me that much. I was very lucky during the pandemic because none of my dears died or even got very sick, so maybe thats because the all Joy subplot didnt touched me that much. I liked the year waiting part, not a fan of the bootstrap paradox + the explaning of the bootstrap paradox (we already had "Before the Flood"). Anita was a great character but it felt a little weird, its like she was intreagued by the doctor stories but she was not weird out by them. She enter a room with a sylurian, scream at the situation and proceed to put towel and toilet paper in the bathroom like nothing really happened? Then 5 minutes later, the same dude that was fighting with the "green lizard" in the room comes down and said "joy and the lizard are gone, i need that room for a whole year" and she is like "sure" as its a normal thing. idk maybe im watching it with too much criticism. i think that 6.5-7/10 is fitting.
While writing this, the name of the episode "Before the Flood" made me think some high tier crazy theory. What if Anita is actually Mrs Flood, and this is the "meta-reference" of her origin story or some things like that? The gods macrostory is definitely not over and the "mavity" joke is still running, i really hope in something that will "complete all the dots" and give us some explanation.
I started watching Doctor Who with the 60th anniversary specials so this was the first episode I saw having seen all of the show from 2005 onwards and I absolutely loved it. Ncuti is so infectious as the Doctor and is so entertaining to watch Edit: Anita better be the series 16 companion like Donna in Runaway Bride then series 4
Fantastic review and great video as always. I was mixed on this episode too. It was fun. It looked great. It was VERY Steven Moffat. I think the marketing let it down a little by suggesting it was something that it wasn't. Sometimes that works, it's nice to be surprised, but people going into this episode expecting a Ncuti Gatwa and Nicola Coughlan Doctor + companion adventure will inevitably be disappointed. The Anita segment needed more time and more action or adventure or PLOT to have the impact it needed to have not to be wasted minutes. I love Anita's character, I love the idea Steven was going for but they didn't give it enough SUBSTANCE and screen time to make it properly land at the end when the Doctor leaves. Ncuti was phenomenal as always, and overall it was great fun to watch. About the same level as the church on ruby road for me.
This episode for me is where Ncuti really crystallized as the Doctor. In previous episodes I hadn't quite connected with him the same, since many were either more experimental (Boom, 73 Yards, D&B), the Doctor was acting out of character, intentionally(Space Babies) or not (Rogue), and I hadn't had very much time with him. This episode puts him into a more traditional Who story, which, combined with that always-crackling Moffat dialogue, really lets me see him in action. I think a major feature of this Doctor is that immense love and respect for every individual being, and while I don't really enjoy the crying I think it reflects that, especially compared to, say, Mummy on the Orient Express with the "no time to mourn" characterization. I agree with your appraisal of the ending as weirdly positive for what it is, especially when you look back at Voyage of the Damned which has a really similar resolution with Astrid, but which is much more bittersweet. Now for some entirely unrelated miscellaneous thoughts: - Very Curse of Fenric(greatest story of all time btw)/God Complex-like moment with the Doctor goading Joy into a rage to shake the control - Star seed reminds me of the Eye of Harmony's origins - where is that disney money going some of these effects are not it - Does this mean the TARDIS finally gets some furniture in Season 41? - Would be really funny if Joy becomes the star from 42 or the old god from Rings of Akhaten - The time portals aging the suitcase is literally how they kill Sutekh in Pyramids of Mars - Heart disappeared because I keep editing this :(
Final edit: Great review & mostly agreed. I think the pacing was really off for the first half but I really think tthis was a great look at 15 & how he works. I didn't understand the ending at all but I liked the sentiment. Also side note: I finished your video on DW's history & man what a genuine banger. So many parts I really wanna focus on but I loved the "foreshadowings" for the revival's writers, the 80s BBC drama, the culture war rant which I so agree with tho personally these days ppl say "DW is woke" which it always when you understand the original meaning of that word. The big reveal of you being the creator of the show was crazy. And the Tom Baker sendoff was incredible 🫡.
I went in expecting it to be utterly abysmal and so did my family, but honestly we ended up finding it pretty entertaining and fun, started a Doctor cry counter and we had a great time, was it just completely bizzare by the end? Yes, but that added to the silly goofy nature if the episode. The Doctor absolutely burning Joy for minutes straight was a definite highlight and, since two doctors appear on screen at once could we maybe say this is a multi-doctor episode? 6.5/10 far, far better than last year.
I loved it. I thought it was perfect all the way up until the last like 2 minutes or so. As soon as the future Doctor came in with the code for the briefcase I knew they were gonna bootstrap him knowing the code, and that was so good! And I loved that we got to watch that scene from both of the Doctors’ perspectives and it lined up so well. The Doctor waiting a year with Anita was easily the best part of the episode, and I started tearing up when it was time for him to go! I liked the Doctor’s observations about how staying at a hotel shows how a person really thinks of themselves, and how Joy turned that around back to him. As well as him yelling at himself about how his companions never stay with him; that bit hit hard. Wasn’t fond of the star actually happening and Joy’s ending and all of that, but I actually liked the Star of Bethlehem thing! And the parts that I didn’t like, being most of the ending, are such a small part of what was otherwise probably Ncuti’s best episode yet that I’d probably give it a 9/10.
@Ana-rf5cu Not quite. AD = After Death. So there is a 33-year gap between the two calendars. No one was counting the BC (Before Christ) years 'down' to zero, they had their own calendar counting up. However, the year 01 was set many decades after the first church was founded by the church leaders as the current form of the BIBLE was hashed out and other books were dropped from the current form. And that 33-year gap may not be accurate as the actual dates of birth/death are unknown. Remember, both Christmas and Easter are aligned with the old Pagan holidays based on Sun/Moon positions to the star constellations. This was done by the early church to convert Pagans away from many Gods/Goddesses to the current Father/Son/Holy Spirit as quickly as possible.
@@thomasboese3793 AD means anno domini, the year of our lord. The first year of The Lord is the first year of which His incarnation is present to lead on earth as its messiah, the first year surrounding his birth, when shepherds were led to Bethlehem.
This episode was very enjoyable for me. One thing that I've seen people talking online about is that they think the Christian population may not respond well to the end reveal, but i wasn't offended. For me, though, it was eye-opening as i didn't enjoy the doctor as much in this story. Something i am worried about now is if i only liked 15 because of Gatwa's chemistry with Gibson. Also having seen the season 2 trailer it seems super dark and i really was hoping for some more upbeat stories. Time will tell on that. 8/10
I really enjoyed most of it. And I like that they actually tackled the pandemic - most media is just too scared to go there nearly 5 years later, which is daft. It happened, a lot of people still have lingering trauma from it all and we need to discuss it as a society in a respectful way that hopefully sidelines all the fringe conspiracy nuts. Not discussing it openly and honestly just gives them ammo and fake credibility online. The messaging for the last 5 minutes was *very* muddled though. I can kindof understand what they were going for, but for me it really didn't land properly at all and was up there with the end of Kerblam! in terms of ending with a hot mess of mixed messaging, that really detracted from the episode as a whole. Apart from that ending, one of the better Christmas Specials
It started off really well. Good mystery played with time Ncuti owned the room. The goodbye scene in the hotel was quite forced as we didn’t really get to know whatever her name was. The resolution was so bloody Disney :(
Trev is also in a comedy show on itvs streaming service called plebs, sort of like the inbetweeners in Roman yimes, if you thought he was funny i recommend it
So glad you liked it! It was one of my favourite dw christmas specials, and I was super super pleased by it!! One gripe i had was with the whole anita segment, not because i didn't like it, but because it seemed like it took up a lot of screen time. I went into the special assuming joy would be on our screens throughout, but the anita segment was kinda jarring. Also, during the manager's death, i see that davies maintained 15's crying. At this point, it seems unneccessary and overdone, and sort of takes away from the impact of the moment.
I do agree, if you really break it down, this is the first episode of Doctor Who Where you can't really pinpoint who the companion is. The Doctor sort of has three companions throughout the episode, but two of them are only around for 5 minutes, one of them never even finds out about the The time travel shenanigans until the very end, and none of them ever interact, so really this is the first solo adventure in quite a while
that sequence with anita was genuinely the best thing i’ve seen, not just in the episode, but all of rtd2. it was like that scene in the power of three where the doctor was just living with the ponds. in fact, if the whole special was the doctor and anita just hanging out, i wouldn’t have mind (big finish will cover that for us tho). anita for season 3 full time companion.
I personally absolutely loved this special. I love this Doctor so much and he played it so well, also loved Anita. She was really good as well. However, my biggest gripe for this special was Joy. She was meant to be the episode companion (but honestly I would say Anita took this role for me) I felt we barely knew her. Apart from her losing her mother (that scene at the end with her mother was stellar, may I add) we barely knew anything else about her, so I didn't have as big a connection or loss when she died. Whereas if I was Anita dying instead I would've reacted much more. It shame really as I did love Joy but she was unbaked as a character. Heck, we even know more about Anita (I have a strong feeling we will see her again, I guess they didn't kill her for a reason, as she was the only main character who didn't die). It just feels like she was barely in the episode. Whereas I felt more of Anita and heck even Trev's presence more Overall, I loved this special, The plot was weird but I loved the characters in it. Personally didn't mind the COVID thing as they did it pretty well with the concepts and it wasn't too pushy imo and it worked well in the plot, so it wasn't shoved in for the sack of it Overall I rate it an 8/10 but a 9.5 on enjoyment (as there are so many funny bits and it griped me the same way Wild Blue Yonder, this could be that I went in completely blind, so had no clue what to expect)
I thought the ending was kind of beautiful in a way since the whole episode was an allegory for Covid and these people who died with no one there to care for them or to really notice that they were gone was so sad when the doctor finally realized Trev was dead I almost burst into tears because no one knew he’s gone. I took the ending to be a sort of silver lining yes it is horrible that they died and no one was there to be there with them while they died except for the last guy and that is sad and horrible but at the end Joy’s sacrifice made it so they weren’t alone and I feel like they doubled down with her mom. Her mom was gonna die anyway, but joy being the star and being able to absorb her mother meant that her mom didn’t have to die alone
For context I'm an American Jewish Whovian, so that just makes my perspective deeply ironic for a ton of this Christmas stuff. I have a very different experience on COVID as well, since I'm personally in the #nevergotcovidclub. That said, I nearly cried at the end of the episode with some of that death stuff, since it did seem to me to be an updated kind of Voyage of the Damned episode, Joy being kind of like Astrid. And now looking at it again, I feel like the entire episode could be read as a sort of satire on how society pulls joy out of tragic circumstances through the veil of religion. So while it gives me no pleasure that I nearly cried to a satire on morbid hallmark movies, it strikes me as a story that is a layered criticism but also fits well as something completely earnest. I still need to think about it a bit more but yeah, right now it's my favorite Christmas special. Also I just finished watching your brief explanation video. Amazing job with everything so far!
I thought this one was ok. There was the potential for something really great in there, but I think it sacrificed having an effective ending for the sake of having a unique structure. It’s definitely a unique writing choice to basically stop the plot of an episode cold and have a heartwarming little short film in place of a second act, but what that ends up meaning is there’s barely any time to actually get invested in Joy. There’s a lot of Tell, Don’t Show with her character, and relying on Coughlan’s charisma to get us invested in her when she’s just not written strongly enough for me to care too much about the resolution with her. That, and I’m sick of Christmas Specials retreading the same “Oh I’m sad cause a companion left and need to learn to open myself up again” ground for the Doctor. This is like the 4th time we’ve done that exact arc.
Thanks for another amazing video! I left my main feelings on the community post, but I agree with a lot of what you said. I fully agree that the ending was kind of weak, and that Anita stole the show lol. I didn't talk about it in my other comment, but yeah the ways the episode handled the "plague" cause of the ending was kind of.... to me tone death. I think it was trying to be sweet and hopeful, but it just seemed forced and like false. Sometimes things can just have been sad, or bad, we dont need to be told "well actually, everything is okay and there is always joy and hope!" if that makes sense. I think Joy would be more relatable as just a person traumatized by those events, and who overcame them in a human way with the Doctor. But i do agree that I am fine with Doctor who can handle serious modern issues, but it just did not stick the ending to me. I also ended up thinking a lot about the 14th doctor. When he says to Anita he always thinks about what it would be like to slow down or whatever, like the doctor has many times lived extended periods without time travel lol. And not that long ago as 14, which i thought seemed like he is still 15's past? but maybe not? i dont know anymore lol. Regardless I had a great time and am super excited for season 2 proper and to go on that journey with you all again.
the vibes of the episode basically imply that becoming a star isn't death but change, much like a regeneration or the end of Ghost in the Shell. And I super love that sentiment. Just like how scary it is to concieve of being not suicidal when suicidal - from the perspective of the suicidal, not being suicidal looks like being trapped in life, unable to escape, but that's unlikely to be as prominent of a vibe when non suicidal. Also, like, it's messed up that Villengard is behind it, but assuming that the star is similar to the alive star in 42, the implication is heavily that the star will not allow Villengard to use it, since they say they've moved beyond Villengard. Like, the vibe is that the change is welcome even though it would never be chosen by mortals. I guess a bit like how humans don't tend to choose death unless forced, but who knows, maybe the other side of death is change that is most welcome once experienced.
The biggest problem is the main threat makes no sense. Why do Villengard send their starseed via random NPCs rather than just booking into the hotel room that gains them access to the Cretaceous? If its because the person will be killed, then send a robot. If it needs to be a human to be "digitally uploaded" then send someone with a terminal illness with the promise of eternal digital life. If it does require some guiding human "soul" then you'd want it to be one of your own people. Do Villengard get to use the star in the future for their evil ends? Nothing makes sense at all
THIS EPISODE WAS ABSOLUTE PEAK! the undisputed best writer for dw does it again. something that really stuck out to me was how well paced the whole thing was. it felt fast, but not too fast so the scenes couldn’t breathe. the tone also shifts a ton throughout the episode, but it doesn’t do it in a way that gives me whiplash. i’ve already been loving ncuti as the doctor, but this episode was by FAR /hhis best showing in the role. I don’t like using this term too much, but this is for sure the most “doctor-y” ive seen 15 be. The emotions really slapped me at the end of this as well. I’m very glad they referred to covid in telling joys story (ik it’s not directly said but be fr). there are so many people who lived joys experience since 2020, and there’s not really much media yet depicting those struggles. I know that ending scene probably made a large chunk of people feel seen with their residual trauma from quarantine. *SPOILER PART* I never thought i’d want to see ncuti’s doctor be SO MEAN! GOD DAMN! that scene with 15 just saying the worst things to joy is insane. i NEED more of that. Ncuti swinging the rope & hook standing on top of the orient express is so peak and iconic. One of my favorite things in DW is when the doctor is forced to stay somewhere for an extended period of time. it allows for a sort of perspective shift, seeing how alien the doctor really is when forced into a contemporary life. TINY NITPICK: The bootstrap paradox scene was cool as hell. even though its more timey-wimey here, that scene felt bar for bar the same as “a christmas carol” as it was happening. while watching that scene, i was thinking “imagine if they pull a christmas carol and give the doctor the 4 digit code thru some timey-wimey”, and then they did EXACTLY THAT. I luv my moffatisms, but that felt a liiiiiiittle too similar. now, i actually prefer this version of the scene more. mainly because it’s given more time to breathe, and joy is able to act as an audience surrogate for people who may question a bootstrap paradox. in A Christmas Carol, kazran gives the code because he actually knows it, so it’s not even a paradox there. This scene is more of a true paradox, and I love how the doctor just kind of brushes it off. Also love how the future doctor seems both hurt and empathetic after what the past doctor said to his future self.
Overall, I like the episode, especially the first half! Trev and Anita is definitely the highlight here. Joy is a joy (wink) to watch and I really really wish she could have more screentime. Time hotel is such a neat concept and the premise is awesome! The doctor having to go the long way round is quite a fun to watch. I love it! Ah , yes the karma coming to bite him after sending the spymaster on a 70+ years long way round. The nice little friednship he'd grown with Anita is quite wholesome to watch. The second half of the episode felt, (mostly at the resolution of the ep) for the lack of word, weird? I don't outright hate it but also didn't love it either. I find it is still quite a bit enjoyable. Maybe it is intentional per the writer but I felt the ending scene with Joy and the others becoming the star trigger my doubt button very hard. Is it them or is it the brain manipulative star-luggage speaking? It makes it hard to accept the fact that, yeah, this is Joy and the others genuine choice. Very moffat moment indeed. (edited: some spellings)
@@Comicbroe405 nah, it goes both ways. Difference is the people who hate it keep to their own smaller communities. The wider doctor who fandom has an aggressive toxic positivity problem and it’s probably what causes so many people to swap sides
I thought this was one of Ncuti's best! The ending looked a bit shody, I assume they had to reshoot that scene as Ncuti and Nicola don't appear to be in the same room as each other. The mom disintegrating was also a bit odd. Besides that though, I really enjoyed it! Moffat really can't miss when writing for Who (at least most of the time).
I enjoyed the episode a lot, I have never disliked a single Steven Moffat episode but I do have one gripe... I have become obsessed with Anita and want her to be a companion more than anything, she completely overshadowed Joy
while I agree with you that it is implied, it is told and not shown in a single line. and thus the argument could be made that villengard still profit off it because why wouldn't they. i hate to be so contrarian and picky, chucking my toys out of the pram but to me it is a genuine problem with the episode. the work was not put in for me to buy the idea that this star mind controlling people is actually the good guy (and yes before you respond, both the star _and_ the suitcase mind control her, the suitcase first and the star at the end)
@dwfan91- How do they get the energy that they created the star for? If they could get the energy from the stars in deep space they would not have tried to develop one in our solo system. That is why its easier for me to believe that she ended up taking charge of the star seed. At the end of the day I enjoyed it and that is what really matters to me.
Unlike with the rest of Series 14, Joy to the World was so enjoyable and otherwise well-written that I genuinely didn't mind things like the strange ending and assumed I'd missed something when I didn't understand how Joy knew the Doctor had spent a year on Earth. Joy to the World proves how willing people are to accept flaws in stories if the rest is good enough. I also loved how many lines there were that called out a bunch of Series 14's mistakes, from the "who needs boyfriends" line, the Doctor's interest in others stemming purely from his fascination and amazement with mundanity, to how barren and empty the current TARDIS is, it all came across as Moffat course-correcting Doctor Who and trying to restore its core values as best as he can.
I didn’t think the episode was very strong (much like all of the 2023+ content) don’t get me wrong it was a great idea but I don’t think it was executed very well, some of the cgi looked a bit crap and i did not see much of a point in bringing Ruby back straight after she left just for her to not bring any meaning to the episode I would have liked to see the doctor return for Anita and make her the companion but I did like how she was seen at the end. Joy would have been fun if she was included more but I did not really care for her much as a character and i don’t want to say to much bc it was a bit sad but I didn’t like how at the end she was absorbed? Or whatever happened to joy’s mum when she turned to glowing dust and floated towards the star but In my opinion this was definitely one if the weakest specials. Also I forgot to add earlier the soundtrack to this episode was amazing and did make me enjoy some parts of the episode like the train part at the end or when the doctor was doing some room service shenanigans, and also Ruby’s haircut looks a bit meh compared to last season. Great review but bad episode (in my opinion)
This episode is honestly a 9/10 for me, it's just all my favorite kinds of doctor who concepts and super fun and never boring. The ending still did not work for me tho lol because the main problem that has to be solved for basically the entire episode is to not make the suitcase detonate on earth and kill everyone, so how is the solution to that whole problem just "joy ate the star and is floating away now lol" like did they forget to write an actual climax???? And all the weird "they're not really dead because they're in the star now" wholesome chungus stuff just makes it worse omg... Everything else about the episode is peak tho 🙏
I'm yet to watch it again, definitely need to. But initial thoughts are just "bleh". I'm so tired of watching Doctor Who and feeling unhappy with what I've watched afterwards. I do hold my self accountable sort of on this occasion, Christmas Specials don't have a track record of being 10/10 episodes, and with Moff being back and how good Boom was, I think I let myself believe this was going to be a home run and it fell so short of that. This whole new era continues to be more misses than hits for me so far and that's a massive shame. The little glimpse of season 2 we got though did look really promising so that's something I guess. Also, great to have you back man really been missing your regular uploads!
thank you so much :D i feel like this episode is pretty much how i remember SM's later episodes being so I wasn't really disappointed. Similar to most of the 12 specials, to really enjoy them you have to already be fully along for the ride and if you're still not quite sold on the era, they're just not going to work for you
This episode wasn’t perfect but I really liked it. The writing was funny and I liked the scene where the doctor tried to make joy angry, it was really ominous and the acting was great. It was just a good time. I think it was a bit weird that this mega corporation getting their energy source star and murdering a bunch of people was played off as a great thing, but It doesn’t ruin the episode for me.
This episode was pretty good, I liked how they included the fact that they where in Bethlehem at the end. My main issue with this episode though is that they don't stop Villengard nor did they stop them from getting their energy source. Given how Boom portrayed Villengard, you'd think they would try to stop it next time it comes up, unless they are planning for something bigger. They didn't even save the people inside the star RIP TREV. Also personally, I think Anita needs more involvement.
They don't need to stop Villengard because the 9th Doctor (or a Doctor before him) destroyed it before The Empty Child. Admittedly Off-Screen, but..., yeah. The fact that it's being mentioned again after 14 / 15 leads me to expect some timey-wimey shenanigans so that the 15th Doctor can destroy it and the 9th Doctor will just remember it.
My 3rd favourite Christmas special. I loved the little gags throughout, the plot, and the section with Anita was in my eyes a PERFECT way to carry on from last season's ending. I hadn't thought about how dark the ending was until now though... My only initial problem is Joy didn't get much screentime. Other than that, fire episode! PS. I prefer Ruby's haircut in this episode, it suits her.
I liked this episode. I didn't have too much of a problem with Joy not getting much screen time but then again I don't really pay attention to trailers so I was going into the episode blind. Also, I really liked the ending. The fact that Villaingurd created religion through making the star, then profited off of religion in "boom" was clever. Obviously the episode wasn't perfect but I didn't expect it to be. Overall I would give this episode a 7.4/10 based solely on one watch when it was aired.
I found the star plot underwhelming, the time hotel a mixed bag but a cool idea, and the doctor's time with Anita was brilliant. Agree with your views on the confused messaging around those absorbed by the star #JusticeForTrev
I really liked it! I seem to agree with you on every point in this video. The Anita section was hands down the best section. It gave me Lodger vibes. I love episodes and moments where the Doctor either chooses or is forced to live life for a bit. It's always very enjoyable. I get what you mean about Joy's resolution. Weird ending, but doesn't drag the rest of the episode down. I also find it really funny that the star of Bethlehem, in Doctor Who canon, is a source of power for the most bloodstained arms manufacturer in universal history.
Considering I stupidly arose at 4am to watch this , my memory of this episode is slightly hazy. But I must say, I was deliriously smiling the whole time. Going to be honest, right at this moment I’m likely not going to offer any intriguing insight. On this first watch none of the “hard hitting” aspects really impacted me. That’s going to be a job for the second watch. But for what it was, I thought it was brilliant. There’s something about Steven Moffat’s writing that evokes such a certain joy from me. He was my first exposure to Doctor who, and I have an immense nostalgia for the 2010-2013 years. So when get that fella writing, I am all for it each time. It just resonates with me. Aspects definitely brought me back to the Matt Smith era, but also was just absolutely elevated by Ncutis performance. My favourite part would definitely have to be the year long sequence with Anita. Truly lovely and entertaining stuff. A very effective way to depict the doctor staying in one spot in time. But to be honest, the end kinda lost me. Don’t know if I zoned out, but when I clocked back in she was suddenly turning into a star, but then mother as well, no idea what going on there bruh. Just felt strange, didn’t really like a satisfying outcome. Very excited to rewatch this one, definitely feel as I will get much more out of it. And oh my days season 2 already looks like peak fiction. Ecstatic.
I like your analysis of the Star. That it’s a symbol of hope and religion and also violence and lies, but I would take it a step further. I think the idea is that it breaks away from its original purpose as a weapon and becomes something more. I think the star chooses to save the people vanguard killed in its creation within itself in defiance of vanguard. Then it breaks away from vanguard so it can’t be used as a weapon. In order to do this it needed a human consciousness and perhaps even a Jiminy Cricket type of conscience, and that was Joy. She and the Star become one at the end so they can break away. That to me feels like a good allegory for what Christmas has become in the modern day, despite its history of violence, to most people it exists to bring joy and comfort in the darkest time of the year. The breaking away from vanguard could also represent the secularization of Christmas but that’s a much spicier interpretation. I wouldn’t put it past Moffat, but he was smart to be subtle about it.
i really liked this episode! i'm always in for a bit of a sweet, sentimental chirstmas episode. 15 making joy angry was some quality acting from ncuti, really well done. her breaking down about christmas got to me, i'll be honest. adding in the tory partygate i also really liked. loved anita, i thought it was sweet - reminded me a bit of the power of three. i do think the episode should've gone either with anita or with joy, rather than introducing two semi-companions for half an episode each. i felt like joy was a bit hollow, as we didn't see much of her, and anita, who we did get to see "live life" a bit more, didn't *do* anything for the plot. good time over all, her being the star of bethlehem made me laugh over my sobbing over joy getting to properly be with her mom again
I definitely need to give this episode a rewatch but I don't know whether it was the Christmas wine but the ending with Joy and the Star really caught me in my emotions. I too am very confused with the messaging of how Joy giving in to the 'indoctrination' and possession of the star was a happy thing? If this wasn't a Christmas episode, I feel like they would've delved more into the fact this is incredible bittersweet. (I don't like Ruby's new hair either, happy festive season)
Same here, it worked well with the episode and explained Joy's character as well. With her being angry at them when she had to say goodbye online and not in person
If I’m going to be honest I don’t think I gave this episode a fair chance but it did surprise me, I think its pretty good and I loved so many moments from this episode like the doctor making joy angry that really funny opening and I fucking loved that ending
Its not like I think this episode is phenomenal but I think its just a good episode of doctor who with some flaws like the cgi, pacing and some of the slightly cringe scenes but overall I think the good overall outbeats the bad
OK, I've now got my score and review for Joy to the World: 8.75/10 (Almost Incredible) The episode was incredible for the first 45 minutes, then the plot kind of fizzled out and got a little confusing but was still decent. Ncuti was insanely good, most of the dialogue went super hard, the year The Doctor stayed on Earth was good, and the scene where Joy shouts about BoJo screwing the country over was great too.
Honestly, I loved this episode, I never found myself doubting or disliking anything in the episode. The only thing I was hung up on was Joy's mother turning into stardust
honestly i really wish that a lot of the things with joy had more time to breathe and be properly explored because they felt rushed, but at the same time i wouldn't want to lose any of the scenes with anita because it's probably the best part of the episode. i wouldn't be suprised if they had only had a limited amount of time with Nicola to film, because she got suprisingly little to do compared to how the marketing presented it
Definitely loved this ep, yes it has somethings I could question or pick holes in but it was genuinely a fun ep and for that hour I was gone so I don’t care enough to do so. I really liked 15 in this. Some of the talk online about this ep like how the doctor lied about not staying in one place for so long I kind of understand but really I don’t care about small contradictions like that because it worked within the story and what this Doctor has gone through.
Also about what 14 has gone through I have a weird theory that his healing/ growth hasn’t essentially happened to the doctor yet which is why he still has some the problems. Like bi generation is not bringing a future you with all your future memories but actually just bringing your next body into existence and you actually have to live and experience thing in order for that body to remember. So to better explain it their timeline are parallel in that if say 14 get over his abandonment issues 15 will at the same time because that has now become his past. If that makes sense
It just clicked for me that the suitcase is a metaphor for the pandemic, I mean, it literally gets passed from person to person. I think the weird positive spin on Joy's death and the creation of the star is even supposed to be a "hey, a terrible thing has happened, but the people who died are still with us, looking over us in some way, so, no matter how dark things may seem, there is still joy" and I think that's sweet
I really like this interpretation and agree with the reading. Except, while I think that it is 'sweet...' I don't think its _true._ Similarly to quite a few SM Christmas Specials, this ending is far more idealistic than actually honest. The message at the end SOUNDS nice but it isn't ACTUALLY nice and if you think about it it breaks down into something quite awful actually. A harsh truth is always more compelling than a pleasant lie.
That makes it sound like I'm a grinch or a scrooge doesn't it? I guess what I'm saying is I don't necessarily find it moving or compelling because I think it comes from a basis of "I wish this is how things were" than from a "this *IS* how things are." But still, I do agree that this is the intention. The star is about Hope
@dwfan91-In fairness, this is a Christmas special. I imagine a typical episode would have dealt with those issues differently, yes, but we’re looking at an episode designed to be watched by a roaring fire with a cup of hot cocoa. Christmas is the definition of idealistic and wish-fulfillment. I dont want my parents to tell me they bought all the toys under the tree, I want them to tell me Santa brought them down the chimney. There’s a time and place for raw honesty, but Christmas is a time for fantasy and joyful fictions
@dwfan91- Okay, I have to rewatch the episode, but I've been thinking about the ending for some time now, and I don't think it's a cynical view on Christmas, but rather more of Moffat's view on artificial afterlifes. The best comparison, I think, is series 10, with the Star Seed here being the Pilot, and Joy's Mom standing in for Bill. There are discussions that can be had about how Moffat writes these kinds of things and the moral and ethical and philosophical implications of that, going back all the way to River Song and The Library, of course, but I think that once you draw that parallel between Joy to the The World and The Pilot/The Doctor Falls the episode makes much more sense than when observed in a vacuum, starting with how the Doctor reacts to the Star Seed absorbing Joy and all the other people. So I don't think Moffat is being disingenuous there.
Then there's the Villengard aspect, which Joy quickly addresses in one line, when she says "this is so much bigger than Villengard". The way I interpret it is that, even though the Star Seed idea came from an evil corporation, you still can find beauty in it as a collateral effect. I personally even feel like you could draw parallels between that and art being produced by gigantic corporations that don't really seem to care about the art they produce except as means to an end (see Disney, or even the BBC), but that may be reading into it too much.
You’re the first person to mention this and help me realize this because in all honesty throughout the entire episode, I was just convinced that the suitcase was an evolved form of the silence
Acknowledging that COVID was a thing is considered controversial? It was literally the only hard hitting thing, in the literal sense it felt so real and THAT scenario was literally what people went through... Like, I really appreciated it.
I felt it was in bad taste to dredge up trauma on Christmas day. How many people who lost family during COVID and couldn't visit them were watching this episode?
@i mean, a christmas carol has an extremely similar plot line; a sick loved one and the desire to see them one final time. it’s sad but fundamentally uplifting by the end. all the best christmas media has great sadness before the hope of christmas saves them.
@i mean, a christmas carol has an extremely similar plot line; a sick loved one and the desire to see them one final time. it’s sad but fundamentally uplifting by the end. all the best christmas media has great sadness before the hope of christmas saves them.
@@sailingb0aty984Doctor Who should never pull its punches.
I know most of the Jodie Whittaker era up to Revolution of the Daleks were filmed prior to 2020 but you'd think from Flux to Power, it might've gotten a hint considering how they were set in 2021/2022 and written during the pandemic. I thought the Doctor Who world wasn't even affected by COVID anyway.
I loved it when the Doctor went the long way round, Anita was honestly the best part of the episode
I totally agree. But my friends think it was quite shallow
yea it was cool. wasnt quite the long way round in heaven sent but close enough
I loved Anita, she needs to return sometime in the future
Yep, I loved the Heaven Sent reference ❤
@Ana-rf5cuI have strong belief that Anita will be kinda like the next Donna, one off appearance at first, but so successful in the role that she’ll come back as a main stay
Petition for Anita to become a full time companion!!!
Yesss I love Anita so much!
Hell yeahhh
Agreed
Hey Trev was Joel Fry from Curella he was a great part.
No way working at a nicer hotel is a good ending for Anita!
Until seeing this video, I hadn't actually seen any negativity towards the covid aspect. Infact I thought it was one of the best things the episode did. It was such a relevant way to explore loneliness at Christmas and considering a lot of people (myself included) lost people during the pandemic, I found it to be really respectful. The episode overall had a mixture of good bits and bad bits but that along with Anita's storyline were definitely the strongest points for me.
When I posted the video, I hadn't seen anyone else's thoughts (still haven't actually I went to sleep right after finishing and scheduling the video) but I assumed that would be what people would be complaining about. Happy to know people aren't because I thought it was rather good :D
Justice for my man Trev
watching the Unleashed episode on this Christmas Special reminded me that this was actually filmed back in 2023, before the Church on Ruby Road even went out. Which makes me think that this was made even closer to Covid being on everyone's mind.
7:26 The way I read it was : She lost her mother to the plague, an event that was bitter and traumatizing enough as it is because she felt like she failed her mom in a time of need, And then she found out what the people in charge were doing- The people who held her back from getting to see her *Mother* before she died, and she was furious at them and mad at herself.
I don't think anything about the show was insulting her at all, and while I wish she'd had a better ending (I think it's sort of a shame that she died, But I think in some ways the end result was beautiful and I cried when the scene with the Mom happened at the end) I think ultimately it was a really well written and bitterly realistic character which I enjoyed watching!
My Mum laughed at the "Mansplaining" line, so I gotta give it a pass. My hands are tied.
It was awful and cringe.
@@roguexxrenegadeyeah it made no sense
It was kinda cringy but not that bad
@kadegetslaid634 well it was sexist so it’s inherently “that bad”
@roguexxrenegade it wasn't sexist, it was a mansplaining joke, don't get so sensitive about stuff
I burst out laughing at that ending, made the whole episode worth it. Reminded me of the ending to The Mutants, though not quite as silly-looking.
taste the rainbow
When the doctor walked out of that crevice I literally shouted "he didn't!" But Moffitt actually did??? 😅 I loved it
She truly became the Joy to the World and Joyed all over Joysus Christ.
I dont think ive ever laughed so much out of shear bafflement at the ending of Doctor Who before
i honestly really loved this episode. I didn't have a problem with Joy's lack of screentime, maybe because I didn't pay much attention to the trailers and I didn't speculate before I watched it. I loved how the doctor bounced around loads of different characters, showing how sociable he is. I also loved the concept of the suitcase, the hotel, Villainguard, the star. Obviously it wasn't perfect, but since when is Doctor who that. It seems as if people are craving perfect, but since when is perfection a healthy goal in life!
I don't have a problem at all, I loved Anita. With that said, I'm calling it now, its gonna come out in the future that some of Joy's scenes were cut. Her journey really does feel like key moments were missing
This is exactly how I feel. This line in particular though "Obviously it wasn't perfect, but since when is Doctor who that. It seems as if people are craving perfect, but since when is perfection a healthy goal in life!" I don't need Doctor who to be perfect. I need it to be fun. It seems a lot of people don't feel the same sadly.
@dwfan91-Oh definitely, I thought she was going to play a companion role in this but she was really sidelined.
So my mother ended up getting put in hospice about 2 to 3 days before Christmas and on the 26th, she passed away I didn’t have Disney+ and I couldn’t watch the Doctor Who Christmas special on Christmas Day but today the 27th I decided to watch the Christmas special just as something to do to get my mind off of everything and I don’t think I could’ve asked for a more perfect time for it to come obviously a Doctor Who episode I didn’t really fixed anything, but it has lifted my spirits a little bit, even for a short while
It was a 7 out of 10 episode that 7 out of 10'd. A fine episode with some wholesome and emotional moments. Definitely not Steven Moffatts best Christmas Special but not his worst either
15 and Anita's little year short film is my 15th Doctor "moment". Absolutely loved it.
I don't have enough to base this theory on but I just have a hunch that a lot of scenes probably had to be cut due to time contraints. The episode was what, like, 56 minutes I think? Not that it needed to be a feature-length movie or anything but that is comparably shorter than most other Christmas specials in the past. It would explain the lack of fleshing out Joy's character and why Moffat wouldn't compromise on the Anita segment because more than anything, that part of the episode just had irreplaceable character development for this Doctor that we just needed to see.
Any “fuck the tories” moment is a A+ episode for me
I loved this episode. I understood the ending a bit different. It was not a good thing that these people died, but with Joy's 'sacrifice' it was just a little less devastating end to them. Joy didn't die, she united with the starseed and so did the other ones and were able to continue to exist in a different form. I also thought that Joy wasn't mind controlled anymore but it was her free decision, because she experienced the essence of the starseed and felt a connection with it. The mind control was a Villengard thing, not the starseeds doing. The reuniting with her mother was an unexpected gift to and kind of a reward for joy and closed a wound in her heart that otherwise never could have healed. I think it was beautifully done and I cried my eyes out at the end.
the reason I disagree is because she literally glowed orange and her whole demeanour and expressions changed to highlight she was being influenced. But I am very glad it could work for you I think thats amazing
I feel like you actually managed to sum up the way I too felt about this episode really really well. I absolutely loved the most part of it. Loved Anita, loved the idea of the Hotel, I was even fine with the Doctor picking on Joy until she got angry, - that's just in the end something very Doctor, even if we haven't seen it that much from 15, a lot of the other Doctors have done it a multitude of times. But Joy's resolution actually bugged me so much I had to sit down in my room for a solid 30 minutes to think about WHY it annoyed me that much.
And I feel like it just bordered a little too close to a pro suicide/pro giving up message to me. I KNOW it definetly wasn't intended that way... But somehow the 'you can take agency despite living under an awful system and make something beautiful out of it' didn't really come all that through to me? Maybe I am misreading Joy, but there was just something about it.
The rest of the episode was really enjoyable though.
100% completely agree
I think the turnaround from "this is a dangerous thing that the bad guys are doing, it's killing innocent people and is dangerous to the whole earth" to "we're in control now and it's okay actually, in fact it's a good thing that will give people hope" was pretty whiplash inducing, plus it was only covered by a line from Joy and the Doctor believing and trusting that she actually knew what she was talking about there. So it needed more work to really make me believe in it.
I liked it a lot, loved the use of the bootstrap paradox. My favourite scene was when 15 went full 7 though lol to make her mad lol
Oh, Mr. Moffat. You just can't let a character die, can you.
He did though, didn’t you watch the episode?
@@badger_shorts7708 sort of but they're still alive "in spirit" as the star, and their consciousness was uploaded to the database after their actual "death".
I live for your WHAT'S UP EVERY BODY 😂 Great to see you back ❤❤🎉
🎉🎉
Watched it late but i was just smiling, it was just emjoyable to me. Loved all the chatacters, story flowed well, great pacing and i was happy while watching it. Although, i do agree that the ending isnt tackled great but it doesnt ruin it for me
Edit: God is ncuti just so lovable, he can do all areas from joy (get it) to sadness and the guy just makes me happy
one thing that I'm confused about is who made the platform 65 million years in the past? I don't remember exactly what he said but I'm pretty sure that right before the dinosaur shows up the doctor himself says something along the lines of "humans have only been around for a few thousand years" or something similar to that
Owners of the time hotel of course. If they have technology to create time portals they can create portal to any te they want. And remember that actual manager of hotel is a silurian, he's from that era
@@Caramiela I did consider that maybe a Silurian made it but I rationalised that the time hotel is for humans to see other parts of their history but that does go against the managers backstory now that you bring it up
Adric survived and did it😂
@@JeremyDuncan cannon now
I was so hoping to see Adric get mentioned when the Doctor said 65 million years. Also because 15 mentioned Adric (I cheered!) when talking to 14.
i loved this episode, honestly haven’t felt joy after watching a dw episode for so long (not that every episode needs to bring joy but i’ve missed it!) also i’d love if u did a q&a girl
I loved the first thirty minutes of the episode and enjoyed the next 15 minutes but the ending dissapointed me
I am the 2nd person on TH-cam who loves the 2 parter finale of season 1. It's incredible.
I'm glad you liked this episode to some degree. I've been very vocal about my thoughts, especially around Joy and how much I love Ncuti's development as the doctor here but man this episode did disappoint.
the best part was definetly Anita and Trev i loved those guys
Tbh I found the episode to be pretty decent, and it kept me fully engaged up until the scene where the suitcase gets passed on to Joy. I just felt it started to decline onwards from that point, but there were highlights in between, like the Doctor chilling at the hotel for a year with Anita that was alright. It kinda felt a bit 11th Doctorish. What I mean by that is we actually get to see the Doctor's socially awkward, alien-side, which is to be expected when we have Moffat on board. I kinda like how the Doctor eventually adapts and starts to be a bit more human. But after that ended, I started to rapidly lose interest in the actual main plotline of the suitcase thingy. The pacing just felt a bit clunky, confusing, and odd at times. But I gotta say Trev was the highlight of the episode; he got the bad end of the stick. And man, that Villengard company needs to update their security. How are these ghosts slipping through their system? lol. And Nicola Coughlan was barely in the episode, and she had really nothing to do. That was a bit disappointing. I thought it was going to be a bit like The Runaway Bride, but with time portals. The ending for me wasn't it. The CGI made me laugh, and it looked quite goofy with her floating up, and the ending felt a bit abrupt. The cinematography at points was really good, though. I do appreciate how they addressed COVID; I didn't find it too bad. I felt Joy's lines talking about it was convincing and handled well, but the ending with her Mum was I don't know how to feel about it.
Happy birthday to me ❤
I spent christmas eve at my parents house, and my little sister insisted we watched "Its Christmastime Again, Charlie Brown," a short made in 1992 that followed up on some themes from the original classic. While I don't really watch things like this normally, I'm really glad she forced me into it, because it honestly put me into the mood for this christmas special. The short mostly consisted of small interactions between people, with corny punchlines thrown in here and there.. the overarching plot existed, but wasn't as strong as the moment-to-moment scenes. It was more concerned with selling the viewer a feeling or making them smile than delivering a consistent story... as if you were reading directly out of the Charlie Brown comic itself.
I felt that this episode was much the same in tone. The small moments where the Doctor interacted with people, like the Silurian's death or Joy's breakdown about her mother, seemed to hold more importance than the convoluted plot itself. I've already seen people complain that the tangent with Anita felt out of place, but when watching with the viewpoint of "emotional moments>overall plot," I absolutely adored that section.
I had the same issue you did where the end scene felt kinda icky and it really seems as if the big bad corporation won... In that same scene though, there's a conversation where the Doctor shows concern about what's happening and Joy dismisses him, assuring that this isn't about villengard anymore and what she's doing is something bigger, so maybe that can be explained away? I don't know, it still feels weird but I can understand the feeling they were going for. I'll have to rewatch it and see how it holds up.
Side note but, oh my god this episode was hilarious! That line about the plunger caught me off guard and had me dying lmao..
Really great video, I always love seeing your analysis! Hope you're having an awesome holiday season 🎄
Thank you so so much for the kind and amazing comment, I think everything you said is 100% true. I probably do have to rewatch in full, I did look at that end scene again though and still am not fully convinced... can probably be pulled over though if given enough time. Thank you, thank you and thank you again my good friend :D Happy new year!!
@dwfan91- of course!! Happy new year to you too!!
Part of me wonders if Joy will fight against Villengard, as they literally saw “We are beyond Villengard now” which gives me the impression that they are, or at least believe themselves to be, something greater than Villengard could’ve ever hoped to be and something out of their control
The way I read that line is, because they are under mind control, they believe themselves to be something greater but they aren't actually. you cant really trust what someone has to say while they're under mind control
That episode was PEAK!!! I’d give it… 8/10. Maybe a bit more because I just love Doctor Who so much
The plot was a TON of fun! A TIME HOTEL?? Can I stay there? The star turning out to become the star of Bethlehem?? A stroke of literary genius. I’m glad the writers didn’t skip the year long wait and let us go through the Doctor taking the long way round alongside him. Anita (MY GOAT!!!) and the Doctor had SUCH a great dynamic, and it made the Doctor’s eventual departure from regular life really feel monumental and sad.
I didn’t mind Joy’s ending that much, though if I had a nickel for every time a character the Doctor interacted with died and turned into a powerful space being I’d have.. at least 3 nickels in nuwho alone HAHA
I do think the ending for Joy and the star in general could have been handled a bit better. Like yes, the star had to be born one way or another for the plot, but Joy was basically being mind controlled into sacrificing herself, just like everyone else at the beginning. It feels like the characters didn’t really achieve anything; like the events of the story all would’ve happened almost the exact same way whether the Doctor intervened or not.
I believe the scene where Joy’s mom becomes part of the star really undercuts Joy's character arc in favor of a final feel-good scene. Her mother’s death was significant to her character, so I would’ve preferred it if.. say, Joy had used her star power to astral project herself into the room to be with her mother as she died? To me at least, I think that would’ve felt more fulfilling to witness.
Overall I still rank it pretty amazing. Yeah it has some flaws, but they didn’t ruin my viewing experience. I still had a great time watching it so it’s a W in my book. ❤
I really feel like the reason the people who got killed are happy is because of the whole telepathic psychic circuit thing that the Doctor mentioned, we even see Joy’s eyes flash golden just from looking at it and I feel like that’s part of why everyone in the other time periods looked at it with hope, they’re all being affected by the conditioning of the telepathic circuit. I really feel like Joy and Villengard will return eventually, some people disagree with me but I feel like there’s too many unanswered questions
Glad to see someone else critiquing what happens to Joy. I couldn't grasp at all why they glorifying what was her essentially committing suicide over the trauma of her mother's death and them not being able to see each other. That really, really bothered me.
I hate the new Sonic Screwdriver. It doesn't even look like a screwdriver. It looks like a cruddy 2007 flip phone.
I like the dinosaur.
I really, really loved this episode. I think the Doctor's Year was worth the price of admission, alone, and sold me on Ncuti's version of the character. I've always found the times where the Doctor decides to stay in one place to give the most profound explorations of him.
I think the Star Seed plotline and Joy as a character were incredibly undercooked, with the ending having been very baffling, with the only thing that salvaged any of that part of the story in my mind was the Covid Commentary and the scene in the hospital. I had a relative that passed alone in the hospital during the pandemic and no one could come see him, so that scene broke my heart.
I think this episode really should've been two separate concepts, with the main premise being the Doctor staying in the Hotel Room, and the Star Seed/Joy plots being left to cook more for a future episode.
But I very much enjoyed myself, I think this was Moffet (and the show's) best showing since Twice Upon a Time. It felt like Moffat characterized 15 as his own iteration in this episode, rather than Smith 2.0 like in Boom (which I will admit I enjoyed initially because I'd missed Moffat's writing style so much).
I enjoyed greatly that they addressed covid without saying the word. "the rules" was plenty for me to have it click without drawing too much trauma and hatred for that time period for me.
Okay hear me out… I think Anita is Mrs Flood???
Not much really happend. I didnt hate it, some parts are actually very nice, but the general plot didnt striked me that much. I was very lucky during the pandemic because none of my dears died or even got very sick, so maybe thats because the all Joy subplot didnt touched me that much. I liked the year waiting part, not a fan of the bootstrap paradox + the explaning of the bootstrap paradox (we already had "Before the Flood"). Anita was a great character but it felt a little weird, its like she was intreagued by the doctor stories but she was not weird out by them. She enter a room with a sylurian, scream at the situation and proceed to put towel and toilet paper in the bathroom like nothing really happened? Then 5 minutes later, the same dude that was fighting with the "green lizard" in the room comes down and said "joy and the lizard are gone, i need that room for a whole year" and she is like "sure" as its a normal thing. idk maybe im watching it with too much criticism. i think that 6.5-7/10 is fitting.
While writing this, the name of the episode "Before the Flood" made me think some high tier crazy theory. What if Anita is actually Mrs Flood, and this is the "meta-reference" of her origin story or some things like that? The gods macrostory is definitely not over and the "mavity" joke is still running, i really hope in something that will "complete all the dots" and give us some explanation.
just remember that Nicola Coughlan is always in the sky watching over you
I started watching Doctor Who with the 60th anniversary specials so this was the first episode I saw having seen all of the show from 2005 onwards and I absolutely loved it. Ncuti is so infectious as the Doctor and is so entertaining to watch
Edit: Anita better be the series 16 companion like Donna in Runaway Bride then series 4
Fantastic review and great video as always. I was mixed on this episode too. It was fun. It looked great. It was VERY Steven Moffat. I think the marketing let it down a little by suggesting it was something that it wasn't. Sometimes that works, it's nice to be surprised, but people going into this episode expecting a Ncuti Gatwa and Nicola Coughlan Doctor + companion adventure will inevitably be disappointed. The Anita segment needed more time and more action or adventure or PLOT to have the impact it needed to have not to be wasted minutes. I love Anita's character, I love the idea Steven was going for but they didn't give it enough SUBSTANCE and screen time to make it properly land at the end when the Doctor leaves. Ncuti was phenomenal as always, and overall it was great fun to watch. About the same level as the church on ruby road for me.
This episode for me is where Ncuti really crystallized as the Doctor. In previous episodes I hadn't quite connected with him the same, since many were either more experimental (Boom, 73 Yards, D&B), the Doctor was acting out of character, intentionally(Space Babies) or not (Rogue), and I hadn't had very much time with him. This episode puts him into a more traditional Who story, which, combined with that always-crackling Moffat dialogue, really lets me see him in action. I think a major feature of this Doctor is that immense love and respect for every individual being, and while I don't really enjoy the crying I think it reflects that, especially compared to, say, Mummy on the Orient Express with the "no time to mourn" characterization. I agree with your appraisal of the ending as weirdly positive for what it is, especially when you look back at Voyage of the Damned which has a really similar resolution with Astrid, but which is much more bittersweet.
Now for some entirely unrelated miscellaneous thoughts:
- Very Curse of Fenric(greatest story of all time btw)/God Complex-like moment with the Doctor goading Joy into a rage to shake the control
- Star seed reminds me of the Eye of Harmony's origins
- where is that disney money going some of these effects are not it
- Does this mean the TARDIS finally gets some furniture in Season 41?
- Would be really funny if Joy becomes the star from 42 or the old god from Rings of Akhaten
- The time portals aging the suitcase is literally how they kill Sutekh in Pyramids of Mars
- Heart disappeared because I keep editing this :(
My favorite part was easily when the Doctor was living a normal life on earth with Anita, they had great chemistry together.
Final edit:
Great review & mostly agreed. I think the pacing was really off for the first half but I really think tthis was a great look at 15 & how he works. I didn't understand the ending at all but I liked the sentiment.
Also side note: I finished your video on DW's history & man what a genuine banger. So many parts I really wanna focus on but I loved the "foreshadowings" for the revival's writers, the 80s BBC drama, the culture war rant which I so agree with tho personally these days ppl say "DW is woke" which it always when you understand the original meaning of that word. The big reveal of you being the creator of the show was crazy. And the Tom Baker sendoff was incredible 🫡.
I went in expecting it to be utterly abysmal and so did my family, but honestly we ended up finding it pretty entertaining and fun, started a Doctor cry counter and we had a great time, was it just completely bizzare by the end? Yes, but that added to the silly goofy nature if the episode. The Doctor absolutely burning Joy for minutes straight was a definite highlight and, since two doctors appear on screen at once could we maybe say this is a multi-doctor episode? 6.5/10 far, far better than last year.
I loved it. I thought it was perfect all the way up until the last like 2 minutes or so. As soon as the future Doctor came in with the code for the briefcase I knew they were gonna bootstrap him knowing the code, and that was so good! And I loved that we got to watch that scene from both of the Doctors’ perspectives and it lined up so well. The Doctor waiting a year with Anita was easily the best part of the episode, and I started tearing up when it was time for him to go! I liked the Doctor’s observations about how staying at a hotel shows how a person really thinks of themselves, and how Joy turned that around back to him. As well as him yelling at himself about how his companions never stay with him; that bit hit hard. Wasn’t fond of the star actually happening and Joy’s ending and all of that, but I actually liked the Star of Bethlehem thing! And the parts that I didn’t like, being most of the ending, are such a small part of what was otherwise probably Ncuti’s best episode yet that I’d probably give it a 9/10.
Jesus's birth would have been 0000 though, right?
There is no year 0. It goes from 1 BC to 1AD immediately after he's born
@Ana-rf5cu He's got to be difficult hasn't He
@Ana-rf5cu Not quite. AD = After Death. So there is a 33-year gap between the two calendars. No one was counting the BC (Before Christ) years 'down' to zero, they had their own calendar counting up.
However, the year 01 was set many decades after the first church was founded by the church leaders as the current form of the BIBLE was hashed out and other books were dropped from the current form. And that 33-year gap may not be accurate as the actual dates of birth/death are unknown. Remember, both Christmas and Easter are aligned with the old Pagan holidays based on Sun/Moon positions to the star constellations. This was done by the early church to convert Pagans away from many Gods/Goddesses to the current Father/Son/Holy Spirit as quickly as possible.
@@thomasboese3793 okay even I know AD doesn't stand for After Death
@@thomasboese3793 AD means anno domini, the year of our lord. The first year of The Lord is the first year of which His incarnation is present to lead on earth as its messiah, the first year surrounding his birth, when shepherds were led to Bethlehem.
i do love when the doctor is forced to live inside of a linear timeline! always fun!
I'm right there with you on the ending. I was so confused
This episode was very enjoyable for me. One thing that I've seen people talking online about is that they think the Christian population may not respond well to the end reveal, but i wasn't offended. For me, though, it was eye-opening as i didn't enjoy the doctor as much in this story. Something i am worried about now is if i only liked 15 because of Gatwa's chemistry with Gibson. Also having seen the season 2 trailer it seems super dark and i really was hoping for some more upbeat stories. Time will tell on that. 8/10
I really enjoyed most of it. And I like that they actually tackled the pandemic - most media is just too scared to go there nearly 5 years later, which is daft. It happened, a lot of people still have lingering trauma from it all and we need to discuss it as a society in a respectful way that hopefully sidelines all the fringe conspiracy nuts. Not discussing it openly and honestly just gives them ammo and fake credibility online. The messaging for the last 5 minutes was *very* muddled though. I can kindof understand what they were going for, but for me it really didn't land properly at all and was up there with the end of Kerblam! in terms of ending with a hot mess of mixed messaging, that really detracted from the episode as a whole. Apart from that ending, one of the better Christmas Specials
It started off really well. Good mystery played with time Ncuti owned the room. The goodbye scene in the hotel was quite forced as we didn’t really get to know whatever her name was. The resolution was so bloody Disney :(
One question I have is who built the treehouse in 65,000,000 BCE? Humans didn’t exist yet so was it the Silurians? It doesn’t look very Silurian
Humans from the time hotel I assume
Trev is also in a comedy show on itvs streaming service called plebs, sort of like the inbetweeners in Roman yimes, if you thought he was funny i recommend it
So glad you liked it! It was one of my favourite dw christmas specials, and I was super super pleased by it!! One gripe i had was with the whole anita segment, not because i didn't like it, but because it seemed like it took up a lot of screen time. I went into the special assuming joy would be on our screens throughout, but the anita segment was kinda jarring. Also, during the manager's death, i see that davies maintained 15's crying. At this point, it seems unneccessary and overdone, and sort of takes away from the impact of the moment.
I do agree, if you really break it down, this is the first episode of Doctor Who Where you can't really pinpoint who the companion is. The Doctor sort of has three companions throughout the episode, but two of them are only around for 5 minutes, one of them never even finds out about the The time travel shenanigans until the very end, and none of them ever interact, so really this is the first solo adventure in quite a while
that sequence with anita was genuinely the best thing i’ve seen, not just in the episode, but all of rtd2. it was like that scene in the power of three where the doctor was just living with the ponds. in fact, if the whole special was the doctor and anita just hanging out, i wouldn’t have mind (big finish will cover that for us tho). anita for season 3 full time companion.
I personally absolutely loved this special. I love this Doctor so much and he played it so well, also loved Anita. She was really good as well.
However, my biggest gripe for this special was Joy. She was meant to be the episode companion (but honestly I would say Anita took this role for me) I felt we barely knew her. Apart from her losing her mother (that scene at the end with her mother was stellar, may I add) we barely knew anything else about her, so I didn't have as big a connection or loss when she died. Whereas if I was Anita dying instead I would've reacted much more.
It shame really as I did love Joy but she was unbaked as a character. Heck, we even know more about Anita (I have a strong feeling we will see her again, I guess they didn't kill her for a reason, as she was the only main character who didn't die). It just feels like she was barely in the episode. Whereas I felt more of Anita and heck even Trev's presence more
Overall, I loved this special, The plot was weird but I loved the characters in it. Personally didn't mind the COVID thing as they did it pretty well with the concepts and it wasn't too pushy imo and it worked well in the plot, so it wasn't shoved in for the sack of it
Overall I rate it an 8/10 but a 9.5 on enjoyment (as there are so many funny bits and it griped me the same way Wild Blue Yonder, this could be that I went in completely blind, so had no clue what to expect)
I thought the ending was kind of beautiful in a way since the whole episode was an allegory for Covid and these people who died with no one there to care for them or to really notice that they were gone was so sad when the doctor finally realized Trev was dead I almost burst into tears because no one knew he’s gone. I took the ending to be a sort of silver lining yes it is horrible that they died and no one was there to be there with them while they died except for the last guy and that is sad and horrible but at the end Joy’s sacrifice made it so they weren’t alone and I feel like they doubled down with her mom. Her mom was gonna die anyway, but joy being the star and being able to absorb her mother meant that her mom didn’t have to die alone
For context I'm an American Jewish Whovian, so that just makes my perspective deeply ironic for a ton of this Christmas stuff. I have a very different experience on COVID as well, since I'm personally in the #nevergotcovidclub. That said, I nearly cried at the end of the episode with some of that death stuff, since it did seem to me to be an updated kind of Voyage of the Damned episode, Joy being kind of like Astrid. And now looking at it again, I feel like the entire episode could be read as a sort of satire on how society pulls joy out of tragic circumstances through the veil of religion. So while it gives me no pleasure that I nearly cried to a satire on morbid hallmark movies, it strikes me as a story that is a layered criticism but also fits well as something completely earnest. I still need to think about it a bit more but yeah, right now it's my favorite Christmas special.
Also I just finished watching your brief explanation video. Amazing job with everything so far!
I thought this one was ok.
There was the potential for something really great in there, but I think it sacrificed having an effective ending for the sake of having a unique structure.
It’s definitely a unique writing choice to basically stop the plot of an episode cold and have a heartwarming little short film in place of a second act, but what that ends up meaning is there’s barely any time to actually get invested in Joy.
There’s a lot of Tell, Don’t Show with her character, and relying on Coughlan’s charisma to get us invested in her when she’s just not written strongly enough for me to care too much about the resolution with her.
That, and I’m sick of Christmas Specials retreading the same “Oh I’m sad cause a companion left and need to learn to open myself up again” ground for the Doctor. This is like the 4th time we’ve done that exact arc.
Thanks for another amazing video! I left my main feelings on the community post, but I agree with a lot of what you said. I fully agree that the ending was kind of weak, and that Anita stole the show lol. I didn't talk about it in my other comment, but yeah the ways the episode handled the "plague" cause of the ending was kind of.... to me tone death. I think it was trying to be sweet and hopeful, but it just seemed forced and like false. Sometimes things can just have been sad, or bad, we dont need to be told "well actually, everything is okay and there is always joy and hope!" if that makes sense. I think Joy would be more relatable as just a person traumatized by those events, and who overcame them in a human way with the Doctor. But i do agree that I am fine with Doctor who can handle serious modern issues, but it just did not stick the ending to me.
I also ended up thinking a lot about the 14th doctor. When he says to Anita he always thinks about what it would be like to slow down or whatever, like the doctor has many times lived extended periods without time travel lol. And not that long ago as 14, which i thought seemed like he is still 15's past? but maybe not? i dont know anymore lol. Regardless I had a great time and am super excited for season 2 proper and to go on that journey with you all again.
the vibes of the episode basically imply that becoming a star isn't death but change, much like a regeneration or the end of Ghost in the Shell. And I super love that sentiment. Just like how scary it is to concieve of being not suicidal when suicidal - from the perspective of the suicidal, not being suicidal looks like being trapped in life, unable to escape, but that's unlikely to be as prominent of a vibe when non suicidal.
Also, like, it's messed up that Villengard is behind it, but assuming that the star is similar to the alive star in 42, the implication is heavily that the star will not allow Villengard to use it, since they say they've moved beyond Villengard. Like, the vibe is that the change is welcome even though it would never be chosen by mortals. I guess a bit like how humans don't tend to choose death unless forced, but who knows, maybe the other side of death is change that is most welcome once experienced.
to me it was honestly just mid lol
I thought it was a great time!
The biggest problem is the main threat makes no sense.
Why do Villengard send their starseed via random NPCs rather than just booking into the hotel room that gains them access to the Cretaceous? If its because the person will be killed, then send a robot. If it needs to be a human to be "digitally uploaded" then send someone with a terminal illness with the promise of eternal digital life. If it does require some guiding human "soul" then you'd want it to be one of your own people. Do Villengard get to use the star in the future for their evil ends? Nothing makes sense at all
THIS EPISODE WAS ABSOLUTE PEAK!
the undisputed best writer for dw does it again. something that really stuck out to me was how well paced the whole thing was. it felt fast, but not too fast so the scenes couldn’t breathe. the tone also shifts a ton throughout the episode, but it doesn’t do it in a way that gives me whiplash.
i’ve already been loving ncuti as the doctor, but this episode was by FAR /hhis best showing in the role. I don’t like using this term too much, but this is for sure the most “doctor-y” ive seen 15 be. The emotions really slapped me at the end of this as well. I’m very glad they referred to covid in telling joys story (ik it’s not directly said but be fr). there are so many people who lived joys experience since 2020, and there’s not really much media yet depicting those struggles. I know that ending scene probably made a large chunk of people feel seen with their residual trauma from quarantine.
*SPOILER PART*
I never thought i’d want to see ncuti’s doctor be SO MEAN! GOD DAMN! that scene with 15 just saying the worst things to joy is insane. i NEED more of that.
Ncuti swinging the rope & hook standing on top of the orient express is so peak and iconic.
One of my favorite things in DW is when the doctor is forced to stay somewhere for an extended period of time. it allows for a sort of perspective shift, seeing how alien the doctor really is when forced into a contemporary life.
TINY NITPICK: The bootstrap paradox scene was cool as hell. even though its more timey-wimey here, that scene felt bar for bar the same as “a christmas carol” as it was happening.
while watching that scene, i was thinking “imagine if they pull a christmas carol and give the doctor the 4 digit code thru some timey-wimey”, and then they did EXACTLY THAT. I luv my moffatisms, but that felt a liiiiiiittle too similar.
now, i actually prefer this version of the scene more. mainly because it’s given more time to breathe, and joy is able to act as an audience surrogate for people who may question a bootstrap paradox. in A Christmas Carol, kazran gives the code because he actually knows it, so it’s not even a paradox there. This scene is more of a true paradox, and I love how the doctor just kind of brushes it off. Also love how the future doctor seems both hurt and empathetic after what the past doctor said to his future self.
Overall, I like the episode, especially the first half! Trev and Anita is definitely the highlight here. Joy is a joy (wink) to watch and I really really wish she could have more screentime. Time hotel is such a neat concept and the premise is awesome! The doctor having to go the long way round is quite a fun to watch. I love it! Ah , yes the karma coming to bite him after sending the spymaster on a 70+ years long way round. The nice little friednship he'd grown with Anita is quite wholesome to watch.
The second half of the episode felt, (mostly at the resolution of the ep) for the lack of word, weird? I don't outright hate it but also didn't love it either. I find it is still quite a bit enjoyable. Maybe it is intentional per the writer but I felt the ending scene with Joy and the others becoming the star trigger my doubt button very hard. Is it them or is it the brain manipulative star-luggage speaking? It makes it hard to accept the fact that, yeah, this is Joy and the others genuine choice.
Very moffat moment indeed.
(edited: some spellings)
Unpopular opinion, i wasn’t a big fan of it. Not much really happend
That kind of opinion will get you lynched in the modern doctor who fandom unfortunately
@@YodaOnABenderHow so? Hating on the newer season is way more of the norm.
not gonna lie, I don't think that'll end up being that unpopular of an opinion
Yeah I agree... It was alright. Just felt like a filler Christmas episode
@@Comicbroe405 nah, it goes both ways. Difference is the people who hate it keep to their own smaller communities. The wider doctor who fandom has an aggressive toxic positivity problem and it’s probably what causes so many people to swap sides
I thought this was one of Ncuti's best! The ending looked a bit shody, I assume they had to reshoot that scene as Ncuti and Nicola don't appear to be in the same room as each other. The mom disintegrating was also a bit odd. Besides that though, I really enjoyed it! Moffat really can't miss when writing for Who (at least most of the time).
I enjoyed the episode a lot, I have never disliked a single Steven Moffat episode but I do have one gripe... I have become obsessed with Anita and want her to be a companion more than anything, she completely overshadowed Joy
Joy was not used by Villenguard. She took the star from them and instead of an energy source for profit, she made it into a beacon of hope and joy.
while I agree with you that it is implied, it is told and not shown in a single line. and thus the argument could be made that villengard still profit off it because why wouldn't they. i hate to be so contrarian and picky, chucking my toys out of the pram but to me it is a genuine problem with the episode. the work was not put in for me to buy the idea that this star mind controlling people is actually the good guy (and yes before you respond, both the star _and_ the suitcase mind control her, the suitcase first and the star at the end)
@dwfan91- How do they get the energy that they created the star for? If they could get the energy from the stars in deep space they would not have tried to develop one in our solo system. That is why its easier for me to believe that she ended up taking charge of the star seed. At the end of the day I enjoyed it and that is what really matters to me.
Unlike with the rest of Series 14, Joy to the World was so enjoyable and otherwise well-written that I genuinely didn't mind things like the strange ending and assumed I'd missed something when I didn't understand how Joy knew the Doctor had spent a year on Earth. Joy to the World proves how willing people are to accept flaws in stories if the rest is good enough.
I also loved how many lines there were that called out a bunch of Series 14's mistakes, from the "who needs boyfriends" line, the Doctor's interest in others stemming purely from his fascination and amazement with mundanity, to how barren and empty the current TARDIS is, it all came across as Moffat course-correcting Doctor Who and trying to restore its core values as best as he can.
I didn’t think the episode was very strong (much like all of the 2023+ content) don’t get me wrong it was a great idea but I don’t think it was executed very well,
some of the cgi looked a bit crap and i did not see much of a point in bringing Ruby back straight after she left just for her to not bring any meaning to the episode
I would have liked to see the doctor return for Anita and make her the companion but I did like how she was seen at the end.
Joy would have been fun if she was included more but I did not really care for her much as a character and i don’t want to say to much bc it was a bit sad but I didn’t like how at the end she was absorbed? Or whatever happened to joy’s mum when she turned to glowing dust and floated towards the star but In my opinion this was definitely one if the weakest specials.
Also I forgot to add earlier the soundtrack to this episode was amazing and did make me enjoy some parts of the episode like the train part at the end or when the doctor was doing some room service shenanigans, and also Ruby’s haircut looks a bit meh compared to last season.
Great review but bad episode (in my opinion)
This episode is honestly a 9/10 for me, it's just all my favorite kinds of doctor who concepts and super fun and never boring. The ending still did not work for me tho lol because the main problem that has to be solved for basically the entire episode is to not make the suitcase detonate on earth and kill everyone, so how is the solution to that whole problem just "joy ate the star and is floating away now lol" like did they forget to write an actual climax???? And all the weird "they're not really dead because they're in the star now" wholesome chungus stuff just makes it worse omg... Everything else about the episode is peak tho 🙏
15s main outfit should be the baby blue polo w/ the jeans, cap, and toolbelt filled with a bunch of random things
i agree
I'm yet to watch it again, definitely need to.
But initial thoughts are just "bleh". I'm so tired of watching Doctor Who and feeling unhappy with what I've watched afterwards. I do hold my self accountable sort of on this occasion, Christmas Specials don't have a track record of being 10/10 episodes, and with Moff being back and how good Boom was, I think I let myself believe this was going to be a home run and it fell so short of that.
This whole new era continues to be more misses than hits for me so far and that's a massive shame. The little glimpse of season 2 we got though did look really promising so that's something I guess.
Also, great to have you back man really been missing your regular uploads!
thank you so much :D i feel like this episode is pretty much how i remember SM's later episodes being so I wasn't really disappointed. Similar to most of the 12 specials, to really enjoy them you have to already be fully along for the ride and if you're still not quite sold on the era, they're just not going to work for you
This episode wasn’t perfect but I really liked it. The writing was funny and I liked the scene where the doctor tried to make joy angry, it was really ominous and the acting was great. It was just a good time. I think it was a bit weird that this mega corporation getting their energy source star and murdering a bunch of people was played off as a great thing, but It doesn’t ruin the episode for me.
Fantabulous endeavor my mythical grand dwfan91
This episode was pretty good, I liked how they included the fact that they where in Bethlehem at the end. My main issue with this episode though is that they don't stop Villengard nor did they stop them from getting their energy source. Given how Boom portrayed Villengard, you'd think they would try to stop it next time it comes up, unless they are planning for something bigger. They didn't even save the people inside the star RIP TREV. Also personally, I think Anita needs more involvement.
They don't need to stop Villengard because the 9th Doctor (or a Doctor before him) destroyed it before The Empty Child. Admittedly Off-Screen, but..., yeah. The fact that it's being mentioned again after 14 / 15 leads me to expect some timey-wimey shenanigans so that the 15th Doctor can destroy it and the 9th Doctor will just remember it.
My 3rd favourite Christmas special. I loved the little gags throughout, the plot, and the section with Anita was in my eyes a PERFECT way to carry on from last season's ending.
I hadn't thought about how dark the ending was until now though...
My only initial problem is Joy didn't get much screentime. Other than that, fire episode!
PS. I prefer Ruby's haircut in this episode, it suits her.
I gotta make a video about why I don't like Ruby's haircut. what did they do to my girl...
I liked this episode. I didn't have too much of a problem with Joy not getting much screen time but then again I don't really pay attention to trailers so I was going into the episode blind.
Also, I really liked the ending. The fact that Villaingurd created religion through making the star, then profited off of religion in "boom" was clever.
Obviously the episode wasn't perfect but I didn't expect it to be. Overall I would give this episode a 7.4/10 based solely on one watch when it was aired.
I found the star plot underwhelming, the time hotel a mixed bag but a cool idea, and the doctor's time with Anita was brilliant. Agree with your views on the confused messaging around those absorbed by the star #JusticeForTrev
I really liked it! I seem to agree with you on every point in this video. The Anita section was hands down the best section. It gave me Lodger vibes. I love episodes and moments where the Doctor either chooses or is forced to live life for a bit. It's always very enjoyable. I get what you mean about Joy's resolution. Weird ending, but doesn't drag the rest of the episode down. I also find it really funny that the star of Bethlehem, in Doctor Who canon, is a source of power for the most bloodstained arms manufacturer in universal history.
Considering I stupidly arose at 4am to watch this , my memory of this episode is slightly hazy. But I must say, I was deliriously smiling the whole time. Going to be honest, right at this moment I’m likely not going to offer any intriguing insight. On this first watch none of the “hard hitting” aspects really impacted me. That’s going to be a job for the second watch. But for what it was, I thought it was brilliant. There’s something about Steven Moffat’s writing that evokes such a certain joy from me. He was my first exposure to Doctor who, and I have an immense nostalgia for the 2010-2013 years. So when get that fella writing, I am all for it each time. It just resonates with me. Aspects definitely brought me back to the Matt Smith era, but also was just absolutely elevated by Ncutis performance. My favourite part would definitely have to be the year long sequence with Anita. Truly lovely and entertaining stuff. A very effective way to depict the doctor staying in one spot in time.
But to be honest, the end kinda lost me. Don’t know if I zoned out, but when I clocked back in she was suddenly turning into a star, but then mother as well, no idea what going on there bruh. Just felt strange, didn’t really like a satisfying outcome. Very excited to rewatch this one, definitely feel as I will get much more out of it.
And oh my days season 2 already looks like peak fiction. Ecstatic.
Joy to the world, in a singular word sum up would be, “Episode”.
Hope it makes joybillion pounds for the BBC. It’s joying time
I like your analysis of the Star. That it’s a symbol of hope and religion and also violence and lies, but I would take it a step further. I think the idea is that it breaks away from its original purpose as a weapon and becomes something more.
I think the star chooses to save the people vanguard killed in its creation within itself in defiance of vanguard. Then it breaks away from vanguard so it can’t be used as a weapon. In order to do this it needed a human consciousness and perhaps even a Jiminy Cricket type of conscience, and that was Joy. She and the Star become one at the end so they can break away.
That to me feels like a good allegory for what Christmas has become in the modern day, despite its history of violence, to most people it exists to bring joy and comfort in the darkest time of the year.
The breaking away from vanguard could also represent the secularization of Christmas but that’s a much spicier interpretation. I wouldn’t put it past Moffat, but he was smart to be subtle about it.
i really liked this episode! i'm always in for a bit of a sweet, sentimental chirstmas episode. 15 making joy angry was some quality acting from ncuti, really well done. her breaking down about christmas got to me, i'll be honest. adding in the tory partygate i also really liked. loved anita, i thought it was sweet - reminded me a bit of the power of three. i do think the episode should've gone either with anita or with joy, rather than introducing two semi-companions for half an episode each. i felt like joy was a bit hollow, as we didn't see much of her, and anita, who we did get to see "live life" a bit more, didn't *do* anything for the plot. good time over all, her being the star of bethlehem made me laugh over my sobbing over joy getting to properly be with her mom again
I definitely need to give this episode a rewatch but I don't know whether it was the Christmas wine but the ending with Joy and the Star really caught me in my emotions.
I too am very confused with the messaging of how Joy giving in to the 'indoctrination' and possession of the star was a happy thing? If this wasn't a Christmas episode, I feel like they would've delved more into the fact this is incredible bittersweet.
(I don't like Ruby's new hair either, happy festive season)
I'm so glad they addressed Partygate.
Same here, it worked well with the episode and explained Joy's character as well. With her being angry at them when she had to say goodbye online and not in person
If I’m going to be honest I don’t think I gave this episode a fair chance but it did surprise me, I think its pretty good and I loved so many moments from this episode like the doctor making joy angry that really funny opening and I fucking loved that ending
Its not like I think this episode is phenomenal but I think its just a good episode of doctor who with some flaws like the cgi, pacing and some of the slightly cringe scenes but overall I think the good overall outbeats the bad
Haha, the bit he was roasting joy had me laughing so hard.
OK, I've now got my score and review for Joy to the World: 8.75/10 (Almost Incredible)
The episode was incredible for the first 45 minutes, then the plot kind of fizzled out and got a little confusing but was still decent. Ncuti was insanely good, most of the dialogue went super hard, the year The Doctor stayed on Earth was good, and the scene where Joy shouts about BoJo screwing the country over was great too.
Honestly, I loved this episode, I never found myself doubting or disliking anything in the episode. The only thing I was hung up on was Joy's mother turning into stardust
honestly i really wish that a lot of the things with joy had more time to breathe and be properly explored because they felt rushed, but at the same time i wouldn't want to lose any of the scenes with anita because it's probably the best part of the episode. i wouldn't be suprised if they had only had a limited amount of time with Nicola to film, because she got suprisingly little to do compared to how the marketing presented it
You nailed exactly how I felt about it.
Definitely loved this ep, yes it has somethings I could question or pick holes in but it was genuinely a fun ep and for that hour I was gone so I don’t care enough to do so. I really liked 15 in this. Some of the talk online about this ep like how the doctor lied about not staying in one place for so long I kind of understand but really I don’t care about small contradictions like that because it worked within the story and what this Doctor has gone through.
Also about what 14 has gone through I have a weird theory that his healing/ growth hasn’t essentially happened to the doctor yet which is why he still has some the problems. Like bi generation is not bringing a future you with all your future memories but actually just bringing your next body into existence and you actually have to live and experience thing in order for that body to remember.
So to better explain it their timeline are parallel in that if say 14 get over his abandonment issues 15 will at the same time because that has now become his past. If that makes sense
The new episode was okay, although I didn't connect with Joy at all, we didn't spend nearly enough time with her imo