Still printing in ABS today and recently started to print in ASA. Why do i love ABS so much? I just LOVE the fact that you can weld it with acetone, and it's not as brittle / stiff as some alternatives and not as hygroscopic, so you can store it easily without degrading. Also ABS and ASA can withstand higher temperatures before melting, ASA is even UV resistant, so no degradation from direct sunlight. - Note that i do not print funny puppets and stuff, only useful items like brackets, casings, repair parts.. -
I just checked Amazon and Polymaker PC Max is $159 for 3 kg. The Yoyi ABS I've been using is $18 per kilogram. At least for now I think I'll stick with ABS.
@@syndan9245 This right here. Color selection is very limited as is stock. Just sourcing a couple of rolls for my Voron build took some shopping around.
One thing to consider is that abs has the lowest weight per cm3, which can be important when you're designing anything that needs to push the limits. I've printed parts for a model solar car engineering competition in both PLA and ABS and saved about 20g with the abs, which might sounds small but is rather significant in my application.
Should you 3D print in ABS ? well every materials have their pros and cons. The choice of the material depends on which application the part will be used for. It's totally different whether the part is just aesthetic/artistic or functionnal. I usually print in ABS rather than PLA because I mostly print functionnal parts (mechanical parts), and aesthetic parts can be smoothed in aceton vapor bath. And as far as I know other high temperature material like nylon or polycarbonate still suffer the same issues as ABS.
Hansbald depends on what you need, PETG definitely offers food contact and chemical resistance, but ABS parts still will stand a bit higher temperatures, and as far as I know, ABS seems more durable for outdoor uses. So still depends on a point of view.
I have recently been revisiting ABS is it's been a success. I built a set temp chamber, and got usable results. The thing is, is that for most prints ABS from a chamber actually has really good layer adhesion and without a raft or anything you can still get away with large detailed prints with no warping. Once you have all your other setting dialed in it actually prints just a well as PLA if not better, and given the temperature it can withstand that gives it a huge edge. Not to mention is can be finished easier than anything else with Acetone smoothing. I have found abs likes 45 degrees C ambient 30% filament cooling fan (depending on your machine) , and no slower than 60mm/s depending on layer height. It's a difficult plastic to get just right but totally worth it. I went from giving ABS up after PETG became popular to now, ABS being my go to. With ambient printing heat it's strong, it's dirt cheap, UV resistant, heat resistant, can be printed fast, works well with all nozzle sizes, and it's uses are probably more versatile than any other 3D print material out there. The only problem you may get is difficulty printing small vertical details, and getting the layers to stick, but again all that can be tweaked out.
"I love printing with PC Max, it's just really expensive" Aand this is why most people *should* still print in ABS (or PLA). When I can get PC Max (or whatever other filament is better) for $17/kg, then and only then will I want to switch to it permanently. It doesn't matter how "outdated" you think it is. The fact remains that it's "really expensive", as you pointed out yourself. Most people are willing to get a printer with an enclosed box (which many have anyway) rather than paying so much for filament.
ABS is amazing! I use it to make models, parts, etc. Then I smooth it with acetone and if done right it barely even loses any detail. Then I make a mold with it to use with other materials. For example, pour wax in the mold and then do lost wax casting.
Exactly the reason I print mostly ABS. I print a lot of working prototypes, so I need a material that’s more flexible, doesn’t melt in the sun and is easy to finish. PLA is a bitch to sand and no easy way of smoothing it. I have a lot of ABS parts that I sanded, smoothed with acetone vapor, didn’t paint them at all and you could never tell they’re 3D printed. Plus, I keep a jar of goo made from acetone and failed ABS prints to use as a bondo replacement to fix some minor defects.
@Sebastian how is he selling products or controlling the market - it's just his own opinion, and making money on the side is part of being a content creator in 3d printing there's no big monopoly on filament or printers yet
I used recently a lot of ASA filament, nozzle temperature between 240C and 260C and bed between 70 and 105 C. It works very well, even a roll of 270 mm height. I did it on a creality cr-s10 pro, on a creality cr-6 se and on a prusa printer. It sticky very well on the bed, nearly to well. For me, it was as easy to print as PLA, with many advantages of ABS, as higher temperature resistance and UV resistance. More I use it, more I like it.
I ABSolutely love ABS. It gives you a smooth finish, it's more forgiven, the supports are easy to take off, more flexible. But it's weak, you need to compensate with more walls and it smells, you can't stay on a room with abs.
You guys either have way more sensitive noses. I print ABS daily, printer is like a meter from me (mk2s). To smell anything I need to lean over the heatbed and actively sniff.
I don't think it really changes anything. ABS is still a good engineering material at a good price and it prints super tough parts if you give it the right printer.
I print a bunch of ABS on my CR-10 without any of the mentioned problems. The learning curve for ABS is just slightly higher. But it's great for light functional parts that won't send splinters in your eyes when someone drops them. The slight flex is also just perfect for ultra light lens caps or cr2032 holders. I also used it for moderate speed rotors. And of course in my 3d pen to weld abs parts together.
Tried using PETG for a while after watching vids with this opinion. My parts kept breaking when they absorbed forces from large impacts. Finally built an enclosure for my CR-10 and printing in ABS now and so far my parts are holding up. The ABS seems to be more flexible which I think is helping.
I put my printer in my garage and run it on hot days works really well with the abs. I have had issues in winter sometimes. In Perth western Australia:)
The way i keep my temps stable is using a metal server rack box with a door that i have fitted out to retain the heat but to also add enough airflow around the ender.
How should I go about storing (Makeshaper) PLA? In Florida? Should I store it in plastic bags in a storage bin or would the heat and humidity of Florida actually be beneficial to it? What about Arizona since I may be moving there soon? Hot, dry air as opposed to hot, humid air? Because I'm buying $200+ of the stuff, 26kg of filament (cheap filament because I'm just starting out, nothing is load bearing) I don't want that going bad since it'll last me like 3 years, some of the colors.
Honestly ABS isn't that hard to print, the only reason I have trouble is that my printer barely reaches 95°c on the bed. If it reached 100°c it would print flawlessly. For the time being I just squish the first layer a lot and it does fine. I have a 125€ printer BTW, so if you have trouble with your expensive machine, you got ripped off. And compared to other filament that are ridiculously expensive and need stupid high temps, ABS stays the most realistic filament for the lambda user who wants a "stronger" filament than pla.
I just got my first printer (an Ender 3) this last month, and your channel has helped me so much!! BTW I am super impressed with the Ender 3, so if anyone is looking to dive in I can't recommend it highly enough. Please keep the awesome and informative content coming.
Printing in ABS...why not? I print in ABS with a 90% success rate, I recycle failed prints and raft and print with that. I have 7 printers and only 2 have chambers. If want to get a smother print I use my POLYMAKER POLYSHER like the one right behind you. For me your statement seems invalid, or am I missing something?
I print with PETG with about a 99% success rate (100% now that I always glue stick). No odor of any kind, durable (as durable as ABS), food safe, no cracking, no shrinking, and (with a glue stick) always sticks to the bed. All for ~$15 per kilo. I would much rather use PETG and get all of the upsides of ABS without any of the downsides!
Just because you get poor details with PETG doesn't mean everyone does. I get amazing detail, indistingushable from some of the best PLA on the market. As far as colors, I can find as many PETG colors as PLA or ABS for my printer (though to be fair most filaments are color limited with 2.85 mm so that may not be entirely fair).
Ive just got a roll of TitanX from Formfutura. Modified ABS. Supposed to not warp and have great layer adhesion. Well we will see. Have been using PETg a lot. Not bad but its a bit gummy when melted. Thin hairs stick to the nozzle, build up then drop off, occasionally causing a lump big enough to jam the head next time around.
You should do an update, now that it's been demonstrated to print well in Ender 3 with: 1. TOTAL air deflection from the print (blocking off the rubber boot to hotend enclosure space with aluminum (metal duct) tape, with an air outlet at the back and UPWARDS facing. 2. no enclosure 3. glass bed with coating, no glue stick
PETG is brittle and can explode (similar to PLA). But ABS has a less brittle failure mode, will turn white before breaking. Also, if you are a bit touchy on finishes, PETG is always kind of translucid/shiny, and ABS can be more matte.
Really valid point. I don't mind ABS but my current printer isn't enclosed yet and that makes large prints really difficult. Thankfully, there aren't any drafts in my shop and I can get by on smaller parts. I am also partial to PETG but find it "shatters" more readily than ABS so thats something to consider giving the intended application of a specific print. As always, Angus, great video!
Polycarbonate have some special effects which we use when we weld it with thermic welding methods. On most materials the plastified materials is some kind of a weak spot and the flush created during welding dont do anything for the strenght of the part. PC is different here as the flush by itself remains compact and, when the joint is designed properly, increase the joint strength: Said in one sentence? A correctly welded PC Part will break everywhere, except of the joint. I think that is the reason why it delivers such tough models when you print it. We can think of the lamination the same way as pressing two molten weldconstructions together. I hope this is more or less correct as I am actually not 3D Printing and dont know the process. I intend to buy such a machine for prototyping and thank you for the informative videos!
Sometimes the ABS is a must. I am using it for replacing fairing fixtures for my motorbike. Base material is ABS, and using the very same material allow for easy rebuilt. In fact it was not that difficult to print it, and acetone smoothing definitely was an added bonus to get easy insertion in the rubber holes. No doubt other material can probably be better for many applications but sometimes ABS is really the only way to go.
For those of you harping on about "I use ABS and I think it's great! You're just doing it wrong!" that's *exactly his point.* Despite what you think, ABS is in fact _relatively_ difficult to work with, especially for hobbyists (who Angus primarily caters to). ABS is picky about the environment, so when you've got a hobbyist with a relatively cheap printer in the open air, you're going to have a bad time. If you aren't used to compensating for shrinkage, you're going to have a bad time. If you work with ABS and you're fine with it, that's probably because you have a printer that was intended to print it effectively. You shouldn't be asking if ABS is right for you because of course it is. But for anyone who is wondering "should I use ABS?" the fact you have to ask suggests that the answer is probably "no". If you actually need it, you wouldn't have to ask. You could argue it's slightly narrow-minded of him to say it's outdated, but the fact of the matter is, he's kind of right. Pretty much anything ABS can do, another filament can do better. It's toughness and heat resistance are good for its price, but depending how much those things matter to you, the extra cost of an alternative filament might be a worthy investment. In another perspective, if those things _don't_ matter that much to you, then you could save money on a cheaper filament.
Toughness matters to most people. Heat resistance matters to most people. Most people aren't printing useless garbage. Most of are printing useful items and parts. Many of us things that will be outside.
@@johnbasterson7938 Well Outside ASA is a much better Alternative since it is UV resistent and shares a lot of the proberties of ABS except that its much easier to print
I have a FlashForge Guider II and I can print large models with ABS almost flawlessly with very high detail. Probably because I have an enclosed printer with a heated bed using a BuildTak type of build surface over glass. I was printing ABS on a Robo3D R1+ and that worked pretty well using the heated bed along with PEI for my build platform. With the Robo3D I didn't have an enclosed environment so large prints would sometimes warp or lift but it wasn't as bad as you might imagine if my temperatures were adjusted properly. I would never go back to glue sticks, hairspray, or ABS slurry mess. I love both PEI and BuildTak type print surfaces. I have amazing results with ABS, especially with the FlashForge Guider II. The problems I have had with other filaments I have tried is they are either too hard and brittle, won't last outside exposed to the elements, and they melt at a very low temperature. If you have any recommendations on other types of filaments that don't have these issues, I'd be more than happy to try them.
My engineering buddy just had fits with ABS, but loves PETG, which gave me fits. I have been using PLA+ (Pro) in three different brands and all is great .... especially when annealed. I have a small convection oven and a small hot plate and water pot that I use when i anneal. I use small weights to keep thin edges from warping and print (depending on the brand of PLA+, about 2-3% larger). For my use I have been very, very happy. Learning the annealing process has been great for me. I agree 100% that there are better filaments out there than ABS ... who wants to go through the bed warping and ? Thanks Angus, another informative video !
I have been saying thus everywhere, but Formfutura TitanX ABS and Dutch Fulaments ABS-X does not warp at all. If you need ABS then this is the stuff to use. I have a sample reel of PC-max that im waiting for the right moment to test out, but the cost is prohibitive. I did try a generic no brand PC and could not get it to work at all.
Hmm.. the ASA.. not sure why it came off the raft.. but yes it is quite gummy you do have tune for it a little bit. PC-MAX.. looks like something I should look into more though. Thanks for the tips Angus!
Im out here in 2022 switching from dogshit PLA to ABS. Granted; I just built a heated enclosure for my printer that reaches 75 C; but I feel everything ive been told about ABS is a lie. It prints fine, absolutely zero problems with warping or delamination on full 220x220 size prints; with the cheapest ABS i can find. PLA prints better, but im tired of my prints warping in the sun or breaking. Another lie ive been told is PLA is stronger; this is only when ABS is printed sub optimally. With a 75 c chamber its waaaaay tougher than my PLA prints (and i mean tougher as in the actual engineering definition).
i would say as time has gone on it has become easier to print in abs, getting a good sla printer is now cheaper and if heat is a real issue which through my experiance it hasn't been just turn the cooling off on the printer and parts shouldn't crack. Also making a box for your printer if this doesn't work isn't hard and not only helps with keeping the ambient temp high it also dampens noise from the printer. I print on a lulzbot printer i have had for 5 years and i have used PLA, HIPS and ABS, i settled on ABS to use for all of myt prints after not long, in the winter the ambient temp can be around 10 - 15 degrees which with the cooling fan off prints fine without an enclosure.
How about sanding and painting PC? Same question for PETG. That's actually the reason why I bought ASA filament for my car parts. There I know it can be painted by my local painter without any problems.
Been printing abs since I built my first Mendel soooooo long ago. Prints lovely on 110 c print bed with kapton tape down. You do have to print a shield round the part though to keep the heat in. But you can make big stuff if you do that. Always had issues sticking pla to bed without using some kind of stuff. Where abs just prints straight on to kapton at 110. No glue or hairspray needed. Just occasional acetone clean.
Interesting video, I also agree ABS is becoming 'out dated' as we move to the future. HOWEVER the cost of these new materials vs the difficulty of printing with ABS successfully far out weighs the use of the newer materials IMO. I some cases these new materials are 4-6x higher in costs. Personally I tend not to shy away from things just because they are difficult (ABS is NOT difficult IMO), but until these new materials come down in price, I don't see ABS going away any time soon.
The main reason that I'm interested in printing ABS is because I'm looking to weld the piece to other ABS plastic and doing that with other plastics is going to cause problems. Even just welding it in there may cause problems, but at least it'll have similar characteristics, so I shouldn't have to worry as much about it integrating.
ikr,, ABS does not have to be hard. you can make a warm enclosure around your printer with a cardboard box and so many ways to heat the space, esp if your printer is Creality Ender 3 sized. it is affordable filament and you can screw up 5x and still be ahead vs. an exotic filament that recently came out. ABS has physical properties that other plastics and polymers don't
ABS is the easiest and most predictable printing filament. You know exactly what will happen with what environments. Every other filament is different on different rolls and varies greatly
thanks again man, you allways seem to have some sort of explaination or motivational words on certain aspects of 3D-printing whatsoever. You are way far allround in terms of how, why, when and what to do next. I really appreciate your tutorials
Currently printing a full sized R2D2 in ABS, #1 its cheap, #2 it can withstand heat (R2 gets stored in my garage which can get VERY hot), #3 its strong. I'm not dumping 40$ a roll on some filament if I can drop 10$ a roll
One cool thing I saw with ABS, is how it reacts with Acetone vapor. It works like a weak acid, and you can use it to smooth out the outside and remove a lot of the layer marks. Which I think is pretty cool. Not sure how easy it is to get acetone though. Or if that benefit is removed by newer fillaments. I'm not really in the 3D printing scene, I just think these videos of yours are super neat. But I do have a friend with a 3D printer, so I might pester him about some of your stuff too. Cheers.
What would you use to print tool holders for sheds, eg to hold knives, pens, pliers, screwdrivers, etc? High humidity high ambient temp shed (Wet tropics), something that can bang around a little without breaking easy?
Note that PC-Max is not pure polycarbonate. It is apparently blended or modified to make it easier to print. Pure polycarbonate has a glass transition temperature of about 147 °C. Polymaker gives the glass transition temperature of PC-Max as 113 °C. IOW, don't expect the same results with other polycarbonate filaments. They are, of course, useful if your parts need to withstand higher temperatures, but they are more difficult to print.
I've never seen PC-MAX or PC-ABS in any colours except black and white... Do they make it? ... That might be a reason why ABS isn't always a bad choice. (certainly not my favorite though). Cheers!!
In my experience printing with Polycarbonate is 10 times herder than ABS. It's much more picky about bed adhesion, and it is more prone to warping. Only very tiny prints will come out unless you have a heated build chamber, which most people do not have.
I agree with what you're saying, but printers tuned for ABS (like the Up Mini 2) are still pretty awesome. Personally, I seem to have a slight bias in favor of the matte look of ABS prints. After years of seeing the pearlescent off-white ABS prints that come off Stratasys machines, I can't help but feel that my own prints look a bit more "professional" when they have that same appearance. The rational part of me agrees with you 100%, though. PLA's, PETG's, nylons, and anything from Taulman (as long as it's dry) are the way to go.
Almost three years later, and I just discovered M-ABS (modified-ABS) from Fiberlogy. And that filament is just amazing. no bad smell and I had no lifting or warping so far on my Prusa MK3S. I can't do any testing on toughness of the material but it's clearly temperature resistant.
Thank you. The added "fiddly" nature of ABS is what turns me off. I've had no problems with PLA on my Monoprice/Wanhao Ultimate/Duplicator 6. Printing small, flatish parts parts in ABS was okay but anything with sharp corners is just too unpredictable. And that's where I draw the line. If I have to roll the dice with low odds off success each time I print...I'm less likely to use a material. I don't have the needs ABS solves for so...no more ABS for me.
Was October 2017 too early for PETG?? For most of my printing I actually use modified PLA (CPLA, PLA+, PLA-Pro, etc. etc.) which is QUITE different compared to PLA. A great deal tougher and much less brittle.
I haven't used ABS since I bought my tevo tarantula in march and got a free spool, never got a print that didn't have some problem. I only have PLA and PETG filament now.
Is PC-Max the same as Carbon-P? I've been using PLA on a Cocoon Create for a while now. I would like to print using a much stronger material. The RS website mentions that CARBON-P is suitable for Drone and RC Parts. True or not? What would you suggest for use on Drone parts? Thanks.
I've printed with abs a lot. Had quite a bit of luck with it. Yeah bit sucks if you don't get a good adhesion to the bed, but I frosted my glass I print on and paint it with an abs slurry. I have had failures, but had more successful prints. Yes pla works well for printing, but I don't care for how hard and brittle it is. I print trinkets and such here and there, but I mostly print useful items. Biggest issue I've ever had was with forgetting to store it properly and it getting full of moisture. I also like to smooth it with acetone vapor.
I've had crazy good results with PLA on my i3 - one problem with car parts I've printed it heat distortion - I made a digital boost gauge and a clip for the vents and in summer months the clips do not last long. As you've mentioned ABS can be troublesome to pint - how do the newer filaments react to heat and do they need a heated enclosure?
2 questions: 1. Can you paint it? 2. Can you glue it? I'm not talking static models here, but things that will experience some force and vibration like model planes, rockets, cars, etc... I never see these questions addressed in any filament discussions and it's a pretty serious deficiency of 3D printing in general
I recently used PETG to print motor mounts. The results looked nice and strong but very soon the mounts broke due to vibrations so I went back to ABS which is not as strong as PETG but can take a lot of vibration without breaking. So what about those PC derivate? Is it vibration proof?
think so too and Polycarbonate is currently quite expensive and not really comparable to the costs of ABS which kinda makes up for it. ABS is a little stronger than PLA but prints a little worse --> same price category. Polycarbonate prints better and is stronger --> way higher price category. seems logic to me soo.. don't compare those like that, you have to compare those that are on the same price category
@@juto2618 ABS prints as good or better than PLA if you give it the right machine. Most hobbyists are trying to print ABS on machines optimized for PLA and that's a bad way to go. Also, if you're comparing ABS on price per kg that is is the wrong way to go about it because you get 20% more ABS per kg, because it's less dense.
Polycarbonate in general is much worse than ABS, you should not generalize - the good results you got are with only the single super expensive PC-Max material BLEND, not with "polycarbonate". Saying that ABS is obsolete is too much too soon. ABS will be obsolete only when there is a generic type of material supplied with multiple vendors that is not 4x as expensive as ABS and is as good as PC-Max.
I need to print parts that can survive the outdoors for boats, moisture and UV resistant. I'd love to hear you guys recommendations for a filament that can do that. Strength is not as much of an issue.
Quick question: how did you tweak the print temperature on the UP Mini 2? My experience with their slicer suggests the temperature controls are locked away, and last I checked the print protocol hadn't been cracked yet like it was with the original UP Mini.
For some reason I still like ABS but warping WAS a pain in the arse. Recently I tried TitanX form formfutura and, as advertised, it does not warp. Still a bit weak layer adhesion though Perhaps I have put most effort into tuning ABS but I always get better prints with it and like that you can sand and drill it easily.
Personally I’ve printed entire hot end assemblies in PLA with absolutely no issues. That’s about the hottest I expect to run PLA anyway. I have also made rather long epicyclic gear chains which you’d imagine would build up some heat and they’re fine.
One thing I didn't hear you mention, but which I think is very important: ABSs shrinkage is by design. It was made so that parts would more easily separate from injection molds.
+Maker's Muse I've been testing PC-Max. So far it either sticks too well or not at all. I'm using Polymaker's recommended temperatures of 260 and 80 °C. Do you use the BuildTak supplied with PC-Max or something else? Or is your UP Mini the one equipped with PrintBite?
The secret to getting PC-Max to stick to BuildTak well - but not so well that you wind up tearing chunks out of it - seems to be to start with a relatively high nozzle height and work your way down gradually. Plain polycarbonate doesn't seem to stick to BuildTak no matter what. So far, PEI plus glue stick seems to work best. But I hate using glue stick. I'm going to try PrintBite next.
I need a printer material that is waterproof and can be dug into the ground, for enclosures for gardening stuff. Is ABS best for this or are there better materials?
I've never printed with ABS, but do a lot of PETG printing and like it a lot for its strength, durability and print quality. How does it compare to ABS in those areas?
ABS is probably the most widely used plastic for injection molding. Big molding companies use it by the train car load. It molds easily and has good cosmetic and strength characteristics. It can be solvent glued and smoothed with acetone and other common solvents. If you need a lot more strength a glass filled material like nylon or polycarb is the answer. If fact some glass filled materials approach the strength of low grade aluminum. ABS is inexpensive and widely available in plenty of colors. In a Stratasys printer with heated and regulated chamber the results are superb. It precise and accurate. ABS doesn't melt if leave it out in the sun like PLA. I print polycarb and nylon when the application requires it. Otherwise I stick to inexpensive ABS. Most plastics will absorb water and if they have been lying around soaking up water they won't print very well (or at all). Bake ABS at 150F in a recirculating air or vacuum oven overnight to restore it. ABS recipes differ but any can be successfully extruded into filament will likely print. Despite the endless stream of new and better plastics (some costing 100X that of ABS) ABS is still among the most wildly used for ordinary parts. It always will be. Given the fact that most hobby prints are decorative rather than structural any plastic would do. How strong does the rabbit have to be?
Good video but cant get in line with the direction of nobody should print in ABS in 2017. Might just be the wording of the statement but none the less. Ease of printing, quality, or price shouldn't be the determinants of why you print in a certain material in the first place. Material choice should be based on the object being printed, the objects use and the environment it is going to spend the most time including considerations for what the max extremes of that environment are. Am I off base or other thoughts?
I found this really interesting as you made this video in 2017 and I just bought a different printer and built an enclosure to print ABS... in 2021! Do you still stand by the comments that you made here? I have only printed PLA and PETG so far and I was looking forward to being able to do ABS
The one reason I'd like to print with ABS is that PLA is impossible to smooth with acetone. What's worse, PLA is also near impossible to sand. This doesn't leave a lot of options for finishing. Or is there another filament that can be smoothed this way?
At 5-8 USD per kilo (if you search a bit) ABS is by far the cheapest filament to mass produce. Strength quality also increases quite a bit if you know what you are doing (For example, ABS is 25% less dense than PC and PLA. Added that both PC and PLA so its expected to fail way sooner. On the plus side, you can strengthen critical components, actually leaving you with a part that is as strong for the same weight. Another example: you can really strengthen ABS parts by manually adjusting temperature on critical places /detailed places.)
I have a quesion and this is just the video I decided to post on, my school just got a 3d printer for our robotics team, which I am on, we got the prusa i3 mk2, now we havent printed parts, we havent even built the printer yet, so what may be needed to be printed is unknown, but I know we will end up printing some parts for our robot, so the question I have is what kind of filament should I use, I am one of the ones that will be building the printer, as well as I will be managing it and probably be doing a lot of the printing, so I have been doing my research but this will be my first 3d printing experience so I need to tips
quick note I just watched the fight robot video, no our robots are not fighting bots, i am in highshool and our team is a FIRST team specifically FTC, so very light use no high heat high damage scenarios, worst thing that could happen to our parts will be our drive motors which are quite powerful so I am nervous about making 3d printed gears
I got the Prusa i3 mk2s and have the original nozzle(brass?) but I have heard you can't print PC filament with it. But is that true? Do I need to get a metal nozzle or what do I need to change if needed?
You can also use PETG. It is very similar to ABS in strength and temperature resistance, but it prints at a lower temperature and doesn't warp as easily. Prusia Research even uses it to 3d print their 3d printers.
I stick with ABS for the following reasons: Hatchbox sells it for around $22 a Kg I don't have any of the issues you say are associated with ABS maybe because I have a fully enclosed printer I don't have to worry about tape or glue it just prints Because I have an enclosed printer if I don't have a fan pointed at my printer PLA just comes out terribly This has been my experience over the past 3 years of printing on my flashforge creator pro
I'm new to 3D printing and I started with ABS (because it's what I had due to a failed attempt at using M3D printers, not realizing they are a joke). This video has me feeling SO much better.
I don’t think you can judge a material you are not printing under the right settings. Like you said, you need an enclosure to control the temperature. I just made an enclosure for my printer and I’m printing complex ABS parts all day long. I found ways around the warping problem and it’s not so complex. Overall ABS is great for prototyping at low cost and there’s a reason it’s been around for years
I am old school injection model kit builder and prefer to work with poly styrene because it can be glued deeper than urethanes etc.. .. is ABS compatible?
I can't say I agree. I know there are disadvantages to ABS, but there's also a ton of advantages (price, availability, strength over PLA). I think you may have exaggerated just a bit on how difficult it is to print ABS. I print with ABS all the time, and while there are definitely times where I have a lot of trouble, I can typically get ABS to print incredibly well, and can adjust for things like shrinkage and warping during the print
Hi Angus, I'm looking to print 1/10 scale car accessories like bumpers, witches hats, door handles, etc. These items will be attached to a remote control car and probably even driven over or rolled over onto as the car inevitably rolls when going offroad. Would you recommend PLA as a good filament for these types of uses?
I printed some parts for my axial crawler and the only filament that is strong enough is nylon. The rest will break or crack. Nylon is the best (flexibel) for bumpers etc...
How about long-term durability of prints? Resistance to humidity, sun exposure, mechanical stress, ... I tend to make mechanical parts and ABS seemed a better fit. I have to admit though that I've just thrown away a 4+ years old PLA part and it looked just fine. It's Always been inside a cupboard in the house though, so minimal light exposure and relatively stable temperature/humidity.
ABS turns out shiny and smooth when you vapor bath it with acetone, which is probably the best reason to use it. Price and durability seem to be in its favor as well. My printer also only has 2 settings for plastic type. PLA and ABS, I bet some other types might work if I messed around with custom settings but the printer manufacturer doesn't confirm that any types of plastic besides those will work with the printer.
I really like this state of filaments, would be great to have a 2021 version!
@Benito Daudier yeah no one cares
Still printing in ABS today and recently started to print in ASA.
Why do i love ABS so much?
I just LOVE the fact that you can weld it with acetone, and it's not as brittle / stiff as some alternatives and not as hygroscopic, so you can store it easily without degrading.
Also ABS and ASA can withstand higher temperatures before melting, ASA is even UV resistant, so no degradation from direct sunlight.
- Note that i do not print funny puppets and stuff, only useful items like brackets, casings, repair parts.. -
I just checked Amazon and Polymaker PC Max is $159 for 3 kg. The Yoyi ABS I've been using is $18 per kilogram. At least for now I think I'll stick with ABS.
What a ripp off i print 9 euro for 1KG PLA, and ABS is even cheaper like 7 euro for 1KG
@Mozzman dude doesn't pc make worse fumes?
@@pawesteller7833 Where are you getting filament at those prices? The cheapest I was able to find is HobbyKing's ABS. That's 12 euros with change ATM
@Mozzman ??? explain please
@Mozzman I print ABS in a closed room could that have an effect in your opinion?
Abs is still the best for my uses. Acetone smoothing and welding are the backbone of my 3dp business
try ASA it has simmillar properties but prints better details, is UV resistent and is not too expensive
@@Larsi1997 asa is awesome, but sadly not many manufacturers have adopted it yet
@@syndan9245 This right here. Color selection is very limited as is stock. Just sourcing a couple of rolls for my Voron build took some shopping around.
PTB (Polysmooth) ftw. Smoothing with alkohol vapors instead of acetone.
@@Larsi1997 I have seen black abs last a long time outside
Many printed rabbits where harmed during the making of this video.
It's OK they reproduce fast.
CALL PETA! :D
Serious Maran call PETG
MONSTER!
One thing to consider is that abs has the lowest weight per cm3, which can be important when you're designing anything that needs to push the limits. I've printed parts for a model solar car engineering competition in both PLA and ABS and saved about 20g with the abs, which might sounds small but is rather significant in my application.
Yeah youtube, just recommend me this right after I buy a spool of abs
Should you 3D print in ABS ? well every materials have their pros and cons. The choice of the material depends on which application the part will be used for. It's totally different whether the part is just aesthetic/artistic or functionnal.
I usually print in ABS rather than PLA because I mostly print functionnal parts (mechanical parts), and aesthetic parts can be smoothed in aceton vapor bath.
And as far as I know other high temperature material like nylon or polycarbonate still suffer the same issues as ABS.
Hansbald depends on what you need, PETG definitely offers food contact and chemical resistance, but ABS parts still will stand a bit higher temperatures, and as far as I know, ABS seems more durable for outdoor uses. So still depends on a point of view.
try to smooth PETG with acetone
Not as catchy of a title...
I have recently been revisiting ABS is it's been a success. I built a set temp chamber, and got usable results. The thing is, is that for most prints ABS from a chamber actually has really good layer adhesion and without a raft or anything you can still get away with large detailed prints with no warping. Once you have all your other setting dialed in it actually prints just a well as PLA if not better, and given the temperature it can withstand that gives it a huge edge. Not to mention is can be finished easier than anything else with Acetone smoothing. I have found abs likes 45 degrees C ambient 30% filament cooling fan (depending on your machine) , and no slower than 60mm/s depending on layer height. It's a difficult plastic to get just right but totally worth it. I went from giving ABS up after PETG became popular to now, ABS being my go to. With ambient printing heat it's strong, it's dirt cheap, UV resistant, heat resistant, can be printed fast, works well with all nozzle sizes, and it's uses are probably more versatile than any other 3D print material out there. The only problem you may get is difficulty printing small vertical details, and getting the layers to stick, but again all that can be tweaked out.
"I love printing with PC Max, it's just really expensive" Aand this is why most people *should* still print in ABS (or PLA). When I can get PC Max (or whatever other filament is better) for $17/kg, then and only then will I want to switch to it permanently.
It doesn't matter how "outdated" you think it is. The fact remains that it's "really expensive", as you pointed out yourself. Most people are willing to get a printer with an enclosed box (which many have anyway) rather than paying so much for filament.
ABS is amazing! I use it to make models, parts, etc. Then I smooth it with acetone and if done right it barely even loses any detail. Then I make a mold with it to use with other materials. For example, pour wax in the mold and then do lost wax casting.
Exactly the reason I print mostly ABS. I print a lot of working prototypes, so I need a material that’s more flexible, doesn’t melt in the sun and is easy to finish. PLA is a bitch to sand and no easy way of smoothing it. I have a lot of ABS parts that I sanded, smoothed with acetone vapor, didn’t paint them at all and you could never tell they’re 3D printed. Plus, I keep a jar of goo made from acetone and failed ABS prints to use as a bondo replacement to fix some minor defects.
With keycaps it is seen as lower quality and pbt is seen as higher quality
@Sebastian how is he selling products or controlling the market - it's just his own opinion, and making money on the side is part of being a content creator
in 3d printing there's no big monopoly on filament or printers yet
I used recently a lot of ASA filament, nozzle temperature between 240C and 260C and bed between 70 and 105 C. It works very well, even a roll of 270 mm height. I did it on a creality cr-s10 pro, on a creality cr-6 se and on a prusa printer. It sticky very well on the bed, nearly to well. For me, it was as easy to print as PLA, with many advantages of ABS, as higher temperature resistance and UV resistance. More I use it, more I like it.
I ABSolutely love ABS. It gives you a smooth finish, it's more forgiven, the supports are easy to take off, more flexible. But it's weak, you need to compensate with more walls and it smells, you can't stay on a room with abs.
Smells is a big one. I had forgotten how bad it could be, the hepa filter in the mini 2 does heaps to cut it down.
You guys either have way more sensitive noses. I print ABS daily, printer is like a meter from me (mk2s). To smell anything I need to lean over the heatbed and actively sniff.
Same, I was concerned that i wasnt smelling anything when i first started printing, thought they shipped me a different plastic
IDK I can't stay in a closed room when printed abs for a couple of hours it's unbreathable my throat starts to shrink after some minutes
Perhaps it's brand related? But I print mostly in cheap abs from wolfix.
quite a few people seem to swear by ABS for high resolution prints, usually
Its 2019, do an update to this video.
I don't think it really changes anything. ABS is still a good engineering material at a good price and it prints super tough parts if you give it the right printer.
2020 now
Yah, the polycarb stuff seems rather expensive by comparison to ABS. I only had a quick look so I might not be comparing apples.
I think just use ASA pretty much same price and also adds UV protection while maintaining the strength of ABS.
I come from the future, he should
yea.. ABS still rules due to economics.
I print a bunch of ABS on my CR-10 without any of the mentioned problems. The learning curve for ABS is just slightly higher. But it's great for light functional parts that won't send splinters in your eyes when someone drops them. The slight flex is also just perfect for ultra light lens caps or cr2032 holders. I also used it for moderate speed rotors. And of course in my 3d pen to weld abs parts together.
Tried using PETG for a while after watching vids with this opinion. My parts kept breaking when they absorbed forces from large impacts. Finally built an enclosure for my CR-10 and printing in ABS now and so far my parts are holding up. The ABS seems to be more flexible which I think is helping.
I put my printer in my garage and run it on hot days works really well with the abs. I have had issues in winter sometimes. In Perth western Australia:)
The way i keep my temps stable is using a metal server rack box with a door that i have fitted out to retain the heat but to also add enough airflow around the ender.
How should I go about storing (Makeshaper) PLA? In Florida? Should I store it in plastic bags in a storage bin or would the heat and humidity of Florida actually be beneficial to it?
What about Arizona since I may be moving there soon? Hot, dry air as opposed to hot, humid air? Because I'm buying $200+ of the stuff, 26kg of filament (cheap filament because I'm just starting out, nothing is load bearing) I don't want that going bad since it'll last me like 3 years, some of the colors.
Honestly ABS isn't that hard to print, the only reason I have trouble is that my printer barely reaches 95°c on the bed. If it reached 100°c it would print flawlessly. For the time being I just squish the first layer a lot and it does fine. I have a 125€ printer BTW, so if you have trouble with your expensive machine, you got ripped off.
And compared to other filament that are ridiculously expensive and need stupid high temps, ABS stays the most realistic filament for the lambda user who wants a "stronger" filament than pla.
I just got my first printer (an Ender 3) this last month, and your channel has helped me so much!! BTW I am super impressed with the Ender 3, so if anyone is looking to dive in I can't recommend it highly enough.
Please keep the awesome and informative content coming.
I'd like to get a 3d printer sometime soon and from what I've seen, the Ender 3 is one of the best reviewed 3d printers for it's price.
I've got an ender 3 and what I'm wanting now costs $70,000
Printing in ABS...why not?
I print in ABS with a 90% success rate, I recycle failed prints and raft and print with that. I have 7 printers and only 2 have chambers. If want to get a smother print I use my POLYMAKER POLYSHER like the one right behind you. For me your statement seems invalid, or am I missing something?
Everyone reacts to smells differently and i think Angus really hates the smell of ABS.
I print with PETG with about a 99% success rate (100% now that I always glue stick). No odor of any kind, durable (as durable as ABS), food safe, no cracking, no shrinking, and (with a glue stick) always sticks to the bed. All for ~$15 per kilo. I would much rather use PETG and get all of the upsides of ABS without any of the downsides!
Just because you get poor details with PETG doesn't mean everyone does. I get amazing detail, indistingushable from some of the best PLA on the market. As far as colors, I can find as many PETG colors as PLA or ABS for my printer (though to be fair most filaments are color limited with 2.85 mm so that may not be entirely fair).
Ive just got a roll of TitanX from Formfutura. Modified ABS. Supposed to not warp and have great layer adhesion. Well we will see. Have been using PETg a lot. Not bad but its a bit gummy when melted. Thin hairs stick to the nozzle, build up then drop off, occasionally causing a lump big enough to jam the head next time around.
You should do an update, now that it's been demonstrated to print well in Ender 3 with:
1. TOTAL air deflection from the print (blocking off the rubber boot to hotend enclosure space with aluminum (metal duct) tape, with an air outlet at the back and UPWARDS facing.
2. no enclosure
3. glass bed with coating, no glue stick
What about PETG?
+1, I'd like to hear your (Angus's) opinion on PETG
PETG is awesome
PETG is awesome!
i wanted to wrrite the same thing.
ABS is crappy on physical strhength (PLA is better)
PETG is like PLA but with higher temperature tolerance.
PETG is brittle and can explode (similar to PLA). But ABS has a less brittle failure mode, will turn white before breaking. Also, if you are a bit touchy on finishes, PETG is always kind of translucid/shiny, and ABS can be more matte.
PETG all the way. I haven't touched my ABS spools for months after trying PETG
Really valid point. I don't mind ABS but my current printer isn't enclosed yet and that makes large prints really difficult. Thankfully, there aren't any drafts in my shop and I can get by on smaller parts. I am also partial to PETG but find it "shatters" more readily than ABS so thats something to consider giving the intended application of a specific print. As always, Angus, great video!
Also fumes are something to consider with ABS. A lot of these newer copolymers don't have that issue.
Polycarbonate have some special effects which we use when we weld it with thermic welding methods. On most materials the plastified materials is some kind of a weak spot and the flush created during welding dont do anything for the strenght of the part. PC is different here as the flush by itself remains compact and, when the joint is designed properly, increase the joint strength: Said in one sentence? A correctly welded PC Part will break everywhere, except of the joint.
I think that is the reason why it delivers such tough models when you print it. We can think of the lamination the same way as pressing two molten weldconstructions together. I hope this is more or less correct as I am actually not 3D Printing and dont know the process. I intend to buy such a machine for prototyping and thank you for the informative videos!
Sometimes the ABS is a must. I am using it for replacing fairing fixtures for my motorbike. Base material is ABS, and using the very same material allow for easy rebuilt.
In fact it was not that difficult to print it, and acetone smoothing definitely was an added bonus to get easy insertion in the rubber holes.
No doubt other material can probably be better for many applications but sometimes ABS is really the only way to go.
Very insightful! I print mainly for vids myself and PLA has been fantastic to get the job done!
If you can print well with it and it's cheap then I don't know why you shouldn't print with it.
For those of you harping on about "I use ABS and I think it's great! You're just doing it wrong!" that's *exactly his point.* Despite what you think, ABS is in fact _relatively_ difficult to work with, especially for hobbyists (who Angus primarily caters to). ABS is picky about the environment, so when you've got a hobbyist with a relatively cheap printer in the open air, you're going to have a bad time. If you aren't used to compensating for shrinkage, you're going to have a bad time. If you work with ABS and you're fine with it, that's probably because you have a printer that was intended to print it effectively. You shouldn't be asking if ABS is right for you because of course it is. But for anyone who is wondering "should I use ABS?" the fact you have to ask suggests that the answer is probably "no". If you actually need it, you wouldn't have to ask.
You could argue it's slightly narrow-minded of him to say it's outdated, but the fact of the matter is, he's kind of right. Pretty much anything ABS can do, another filament can do better. It's toughness and heat resistance are good for its price, but depending how much those things matter to you, the extra cost of an alternative filament might be a worthy investment. In another perspective, if those things _don't_ matter that much to you, then you could save money on a cheaper filament.
Toughness matters to most people. Heat resistance matters to most people. Most people aren't printing useless garbage. Most of are printing useful items and parts. Many of us things that will be outside.
@@johnbasterson7938 Well Outside ASA is a much better Alternative since it is UV resistent and shares a lot of the proberties of ABS except that its much easier to print
I have a FlashForge Guider II and I can print large models with ABS almost flawlessly with very high detail. Probably because I have an enclosed printer with a heated bed using a BuildTak type of build surface over glass. I was printing ABS on a Robo3D R1+ and that worked pretty well using the heated bed along with PEI for my build platform. With the Robo3D I didn't have an enclosed environment so large prints would sometimes warp or lift but it wasn't as bad as you might imagine if my temperatures were adjusted properly. I would never go back to glue sticks, hairspray, or ABS slurry mess. I love both PEI and BuildTak type print surfaces. I have amazing results with ABS, especially with the FlashForge Guider II. The problems I have had with other filaments I have tried is they are either too hard and brittle, won't last outside exposed to the elements, and they melt at a very low temperature. If you have any recommendations on other types of filaments that don't have these issues, I'd be more than happy to try them.
4 years later, voron printers are made in ABS.
My engineering buddy just had fits with ABS, but loves PETG, which gave me fits. I have been using PLA+ (Pro) in three different brands and all is great .... especially when annealed. I have a small convection oven and a small hot plate and water pot that I use when i anneal. I use small weights to keep thin edges from warping and print (depending on the brand of PLA+, about 2-3% larger). For my use I have been very, very happy. Learning the annealing process has been great for me.
I agree 100% that there are better filaments out there than ABS ... who wants to go through the bed warping and ?
Thanks Angus, another informative video !
I have been saying thus everywhere, but Formfutura TitanX ABS and Dutch Fulaments ABS-X does not warp at all. If you need ABS then this is the stuff to use.
I have a sample reel of PC-max that im waiting for the right moment to test out, but the cost is prohibitive. I did try a generic no brand PC and could not get it to work at all.
Hmm.. the ASA.. not sure why it came off the raft.. but yes it is quite gummy you do have tune for it a little bit.
PC-MAX.. looks like something I should look into more though.
Thanks for the tips Angus!
Color maybe? PC-max usually comes in black ,grey and maybe white, I haven't seen a red or blue one correct me if I am wrong
PETG is king. Good temperature resistance, amazing layer strength, great impact resistance, no warping, and it won't give you cancer when you print!
Im out here in 2022 switching from dogshit PLA to ABS. Granted; I just built a heated enclosure for my printer that reaches 75 C; but I feel everything ive been told about ABS is a lie. It prints fine, absolutely zero problems with warping or delamination on full 220x220 size prints; with the cheapest ABS i can find. PLA prints better, but im tired of my prints warping in the sun or breaking. Another lie ive been told is PLA is stronger; this is only when ABS is printed sub optimally. With a 75 c chamber its waaaaay tougher than my PLA prints (and i mean tougher as in the actual engineering definition).
you can acetone weld any plastic if you mix some abs into the acetone
i would say as time has gone on it has become easier to print in abs, getting a good sla printer is now cheaper and if heat is a real issue which through my experiance it hasn't been just turn the cooling off on the printer and parts shouldn't crack. Also making a box for your printer if this doesn't work isn't hard and not only helps with keeping the ambient temp high it also dampens noise from the printer. I print on a lulzbot printer i have had for 5 years and i have used PLA, HIPS and ABS, i settled on ABS to use for all of myt prints after not long, in the winter the ambient temp can be around 10 - 15 degrees which with the cooling fan off prints fine without an enclosure.
How about sanding and painting PC? Same question for PETG.
That's actually the reason why I bought ASA filament for my car parts. There I know it can be painted by my local painter without any problems.
Been printing abs since I built my first Mendel soooooo long ago.
Prints lovely on 110 c print bed with kapton tape down. You do have to print a shield round the part though to keep the heat in.
But you can make big stuff if you do that. Always had issues sticking pla to bed without using some kind of stuff.
Where abs just prints straight on to kapton at 110. No glue or hairspray needed. Just occasional acetone clean.
What do you recommend printing in to create parts that can be smoothed easily via chemical exposure?
Interesting video, I also agree ABS is becoming 'out dated' as we move to the future. HOWEVER the cost of these new materials vs the difficulty of printing with ABS successfully far out weighs the use of the newer materials IMO. I some cases these new materials are 4-6x higher in costs.
Personally I tend not to shy away from things just because they are difficult (ABS is NOT difficult IMO), but until these new materials come down in price, I don't see ABS going away any time soon.
ABS is so easy to print. See my comment above :) I print 15 hours prints even without enclosure. It works great.
Im noticing PETg being about the same cost now - but working with it is another story. ABS is just buttery smooth, PETg does not print so smooth.
The main reason that I'm interested in printing ABS is because I'm looking to weld the piece to other ABS plastic and doing that with other plastics is going to cause problems. Even just welding it in there may cause problems, but at least it'll have similar characteristics, so I shouldn't have to worry as much about it integrating.
ikr,, ABS does not have to be hard. you can make a warm enclosure around your printer with a cardboard box and so many ways to heat the space, esp if your printer is Creality Ender 3 sized. it is affordable filament and you can screw up 5x and still be ahead vs. an exotic filament that recently came out. ABS has physical properties that other plastics and polymers don't
ABS is the easiest and most predictable printing filament. You know exactly what will happen with what environments. Every other filament is different on different rolls and varies greatly
thanks again man, you allways seem to have some sort of explaination or motivational words on certain aspects of 3D-printing whatsoever. You are way far allround in terms of how, why, when and what to do next. I really appreciate your tutorials
Just starting...haven't even received our printer yet...does pc-max work well in a Monoprice Select Plus? Looking for a tough material.
Currently printing a full sized R2D2 in ABS, #1 its cheap, #2 it can withstand heat (R2 gets stored in my garage which can get VERY hot), #3 its strong. I'm not dumping 40$ a roll on some filament if I can drop 10$ a roll
One cool thing I saw with ABS, is how it reacts with Acetone vapor. It works like a weak acid, and you can use it to smooth out the outside and remove a lot of the layer marks. Which I think is pretty cool. Not sure how easy it is to get acetone though. Or if that benefit is removed by newer fillaments. I'm not really in the 3D printing scene, I just think these videos of yours are super neat. But I do have a friend with a 3D printer, so I might pester him about some of your stuff too.
Cheers.
Not like an acid, it acts exactly like you would expect it from organic solvents.
Not like an acid, it acts exactly like you would expect it from organic solvents.
What would you use to print tool holders for sheds, eg to hold knives, pens, pliers, screwdrivers, etc? High humidity high ambient temp shed (Wet tropics), something that can bang around a little without breaking easy?
Note that PC-Max is not pure polycarbonate. It is apparently blended or modified to make it easier to print. Pure polycarbonate has a glass transition temperature of about 147 °C. Polymaker gives the glass transition temperature of PC-Max as 113 °C. IOW, don't expect the same results with other polycarbonate filaments. They are, of course, useful if your parts need to withstand higher temperatures, but they are more difficult to print.
I've never seen PC-MAX or PC-ABS in any colours except black and white... Do they make it? ... That might be a reason why ABS isn't always a bad choice. (certainly not my favorite though). Cheers!!
In my experience printing with Polycarbonate is 10 times herder than ABS. It's much more picky about bed adhesion, and it is more prone to warping. Only very tiny prints will come out unless you have a heated build chamber, which most people do not have.
I agree with what you're saying, but printers tuned for ABS (like the Up Mini 2) are still pretty awesome. Personally, I seem to have a slight bias in favor of the matte look of ABS prints. After years of seeing the pearlescent off-white ABS prints that come off Stratasys machines, I can't help but feel that my own prints look a bit more "professional" when they have that same appearance. The rational part of me agrees with you 100%, though. PLA's, PETG's, nylons, and anything from Taulman (as long as it's dry) are the way to go.
Almost three years later, and I just discovered M-ABS (modified-ABS) from Fiberlogy. And that filament is just amazing. no bad smell and I had no lifting or warping so far on my Prusa MK3S. I can't do any testing on toughness of the material but it's clearly temperature resistant.
Thank you. The added "fiddly" nature of ABS is what turns me off. I've had no problems with PLA on my Monoprice/Wanhao Ultimate/Duplicator 6. Printing small, flatish parts parts in ABS was okay but anything with sharp corners is just too unpredictable. And that's where I draw the line. If I have to roll the dice with low odds off success each time I print...I'm less likely to use a material. I don't have the needs ABS solves for so...no more ABS for me.
Just want to say a heartful thank you for giving out the STL of the test bunny!
Was October 2017 too early for PETG?? For most of my printing I actually use modified PLA (CPLA, PLA+, PLA-Pro, etc. etc.) which is QUITE different compared to PLA. A great deal tougher and much less brittle.
Co9uld you compare PETG and PC filaments? I print a lot of PETG and like it for structural parts, wondering if I should switch to PC.
I haven't used ABS since I bought my tevo tarantula in march and got a free spool, never got a print that didn't have some problem. I only have PLA and PETG filament now.
Is PC-Max the same as Carbon-P? I've been using PLA on a Cocoon Create for a while now. I would like to print using a much stronger material. The RS website mentions that CARBON-P is suitable for Drone and RC Parts. True or not? What would you suggest for use on Drone parts? Thanks.
I've printed with abs a lot. Had quite a bit of luck with it. Yeah bit sucks if you don't get a good adhesion to the bed, but I frosted my glass I print on and paint it with an abs slurry. I have had failures, but had more successful prints. Yes pla works well for printing, but I don't care for how hard and brittle it is. I print trinkets and such here and there, but I mostly print useful items. Biggest issue I've ever had was with forgetting to store it properly and it getting full of moisture. I also like to smooth it with acetone vapor.
My experience is pretty much identical. :)
I've had crazy good results with PLA on my i3 - one problem with car parts I've printed it heat distortion - I made a digital boost gauge and a clip for the vents and in summer months the clips do not last long.
As you've mentioned ABS can be troublesome to pint - how do the newer filaments react to heat and do they need a heated enclosure?
Did you ever get something that works well for higher temperatures
2 questions:
1. Can you paint it?
2. Can you glue it?
I'm not talking static models here, but things that will experience some force and vibration like model planes, rockets, cars, etc...
I never see these questions addressed in any filament discussions and it's a pretty serious deficiency of 3D printing in general
I recently used PETG to print motor mounts. The results looked nice and strong but very soon the mounts broke due to vibrations so I went back to ABS which is not as strong as PETG but can take a lot of vibration without breaking. So what about those PC derivate? Is it vibration proof?
There is no better or worse material... just the material that can do what you need for the price you're willing to pay. Peace ✌
Which means there are better or worse materials for your desired result and budget... Pretty much defined "better" or "worse"...
ABS certainly is a better material for injection molding than 3D printing tho.
think so too and Polycarbonate is currently quite expensive and not really comparable to the costs of ABS which kinda makes up for it. ABS is a little stronger than PLA but prints a little worse --> same price category.
Polycarbonate prints better and is stronger --> way higher price category.
seems logic to me soo.. don't compare those like that, you have to compare those that are on the same price category
You can't have a positive quote for everything in life.
@@juto2618 ABS prints as good or better than PLA if you give it the right machine. Most hobbyists are trying to print ABS on machines optimized for PLA and that's a bad way to go. Also, if you're comparing ABS on price per kg that is is the wrong way to go about it because you get 20% more ABS per kg, because it's less dense.
I print in ABS primarily because I can acetone smooth. A mini that is acetone smoothed is far nicer than a PLA printed mini.
I think you can still do that with ASA
How badly does Polycarbonate warp? I heard it's worse than ABS, so if ABS is diffcult to print, Polycarbonate is even more difficult.
It needs a higher extrusion temperature, but in my experience warp is similar and manageable at least in the UP Mini 2 it's not an issue.
Polycarbonate in general is much worse than ABS, you should not generalize - the good results you got are with only the single super expensive PC-Max material BLEND, not with "polycarbonate".
Saying that ABS is obsolete is too much too soon.
ABS will be obsolete only when there is a generic type of material supplied with multiple vendors that is not 4x as expensive as ABS and is as good as PC-Max.
Jan Hlavatý it's vallée PETG
On my printer cheap HK PC warps way more than ABS. It might have to do with the absence of a heated chaimber, bed at 130°C though.
@@hlavaatch it's $40 now for 750g. Wonder if it's still good?
I need to print parts that can survive the outdoors for boats, moisture and UV resistant. I'd love to hear you guys recommendations for a filament that can do that. Strength is not as much of an issue.
Quick question: how did you tweak the print temperature on the UP Mini 2? My experience with their slicer suggests the temperature controls are locked away, and last I checked the print protocol hadn't been cracked yet like it was with the original UP Mini.
For some reason I still like ABS but warping WAS a pain in the arse. Recently I tried TitanX form formfutura and, as advertised, it does not warp. Still a bit weak layer adhesion though Perhaps I have put most effort into tuning ABS but I always get better prints with it and like that you can sand and drill it easily.
Personally I’ve printed entire hot end assemblies in PLA with absolutely no issues. That’s about the hottest I expect to run PLA anyway. I have also made rather long epicyclic gear chains which you’d imagine would build up some heat and they’re fine.
One thing I didn't hear you mention, but which I think is very important: ABSs shrinkage is by design. It was made so that parts would more easily separate from injection molds.
all these advertisements „high quality ABS filament! No warping!“
Lol
+Maker's Muse I've been testing PC-Max. So far it either sticks too well or not at all. I'm using Polymaker's recommended temperatures of 260 and 80 °C. Do you use the BuildTak supplied with PC-Max or something else? Or is your UP Mini the one equipped with PrintBite?
The secret to getting PC-Max to stick to BuildTak well - but not so well that you wind up tearing chunks out of it - seems to be to start with a relatively high nozzle height and work your way down gradually. Plain polycarbonate doesn't seem to stick to BuildTak no matter what. So far, PEI plus glue stick seems to work best. But I hate using glue stick. I'm going to try PrintBite next.
I need a printer material that is waterproof and can be dug into the ground, for enclosures for gardening stuff. Is ABS best for this or are there better materials?
I've never printed with ABS, but do a lot of PETG printing and like it a lot for its strength, durability and print quality. How does it compare to ABS in those areas?
ABS is probably the most widely used plastic for injection molding. Big molding companies use it by the train car load. It molds easily and has good cosmetic and strength characteristics. It can be solvent glued and smoothed with acetone and other common solvents. If you need a lot more strength a glass filled material like nylon or polycarb is the answer. If fact some glass filled materials approach the strength of low grade aluminum. ABS is inexpensive and widely available in plenty of colors. In a Stratasys printer with heated and regulated chamber the results are superb. It precise and accurate. ABS doesn't melt if leave it out in the sun like PLA. I print polycarb and nylon when the application requires it. Otherwise I stick to inexpensive ABS.
Most plastics will absorb water and if they have been lying around soaking up water they won't print very well (or at all). Bake ABS at 150F in a recirculating air or vacuum oven overnight to restore it. ABS recipes differ but any can be successfully extruded into filament will likely print.
Despite the endless stream of new and better plastics (some costing 100X that of ABS) ABS is still among the most wildly used for ordinary parts. It always will be.
Given the fact that most hobby prints are decorative rather than structural any plastic would do.
How strong does the rabbit have to be?
id love to see an update to this now! you rock btw
Good video but cant get in line with the direction of nobody should print in ABS in 2017. Might just be the wording of the statement but none the less. Ease of printing, quality, or price shouldn't be the determinants of why you print in a certain material in the first place. Material choice should be based on the object being printed, the objects use and the environment it is going to spend the most time including considerations for what the max extremes of that environment are. Am I off base or other thoughts?
I found this really interesting as you made this video in 2017 and I just bought a different printer and built an enclosure to print ABS... in 2021! Do you still stand by the comments that you made here? I have only printed PLA and PETG so far and I was looking forward to being able to do ABS
HDglass (modified PETG) is my favourite material to print in so far. Very strong with a bit of bend and next to zero warp....ever.
The one reason I'd like to print with ABS is that PLA is impossible to smooth with acetone. What's worse, PLA is also near impossible to sand. This doesn't leave a lot of options for finishing. Or is there another filament that can be smoothed this way?
I am new to printing but i need something UV stabilised - what would you recommend in 2021??
ASA is a close cousin to ABS and UV resistant...
At 5-8 USD per kilo (if you search a bit) ABS is by far the cheapest filament to mass produce. Strength quality also increases quite a bit if you know what you are doing (For example, ABS is 25% less dense than PC and PLA. Added that both PC and PLA so its expected to fail way sooner. On the plus side, you can strengthen critical components, actually leaving you with a part that is as strong for the same weight. Another example: you can really strengthen ABS parts by manually adjusting temperature on critical places /detailed places.)
I have a quesion and this is just the video I decided to post on, my school just got a 3d printer for our robotics team, which I am on, we got the prusa i3 mk2, now we havent printed parts, we havent even built the printer yet, so what may be needed to be printed is unknown, but I know we will end up printing some parts for our robot, so the question I have is what kind of filament should I use, I am one of the ones that will be building the printer, as well as I will be managing it and probably be doing a lot of the printing, so I have been doing my research but this will be my first 3d printing experience so I need to tips
quick note I just watched the fight robot video, no our robots are not fighting bots, i am in highshool and our team is a FIRST team specifically FTC, so very light use no high heat high damage scenarios, worst thing that could happen to our parts will be our drive motors which are quite powerful so I am nervous about making 3d printed gears
I got the Prusa i3 mk2s and have the original nozzle(brass?) but I have heard you can't print PC filament with it. But is that true? Do I need to get a metal nozzle or what do I need to change if needed?
You can also use PETG. It is very similar to ABS in strength and temperature resistance, but it prints at a lower temperature and doesn't warp as easily. Prusia Research even uses it to 3d print their 3d printers.
I stick with ABS for the following reasons:
Hatchbox sells it for around $22 a Kg
I don't have any of the issues you say are associated with ABS maybe because I have a fully enclosed printer
I don't have to worry about tape or glue it just prints
Because I have an enclosed printer if I don't have a fan pointed at my printer PLA just comes out terribly
This has been my experience over the past 3 years of printing on my flashforge creator pro
I'm new to 3D printing and I started with ABS (because it's what I had due to a failed attempt at using M3D printers, not realizing they are a joke). This video has me feeling SO much better.
I don’t think you can judge a material you are not printing under the right settings. Like you said, you need an enclosure to control the temperature. I just made an enclosure for my printer and I’m printing complex ABS parts all day long. I found ways around the warping problem and it’s not so complex. Overall ABS is great for prototyping at low cost and there’s a reason it’s been around for years
What about PETG? How does that compare strength-wise to PLA, ABS, and PC?
I am old school injection model kit builder and prefer to work with poly styrene because it can be glued deeper than urethanes etc.. .. is ABS compatible?
I can't say I agree. I know there are disadvantages to ABS, but there's also a ton of advantages (price, availability, strength over PLA). I think you may have exaggerated just a bit on how difficult it is to print ABS. I print with ABS all the time, and while there are definitely times where I have a lot of trouble, I can typically get ABS to print incredibly well, and can adjust for things like shrinkage and warping during the print
Hi Angus,
I'm looking to print 1/10 scale car accessories like bumpers, witches hats, door handles, etc.
These items will be attached to a remote control car and probably even driven over or rolled over onto as the car inevitably rolls when going offroad.
Would you recommend PLA as a good filament for these types of uses?
I printed some parts for my axial crawler and the only filament that is strong enough is nylon. The rest will break or crack. Nylon is the best (flexibel) for bumpers etc...
Thanks, you just talked me out of the sirens song of cheap filament. People keep saying "print in ABS" for certain items. Now I know better.
How about long-term durability of prints? Resistance to humidity, sun exposure, mechanical stress, ...
I tend to make mechanical parts and ABS seemed a better fit.
I have to admit though that I've just thrown away a 4+ years old PLA part and it looked just fine. It's Always been inside a cupboard in the house though, so minimal light exposure and relatively stable temperature/humidity.
ABS turns out shiny and smooth when you vapor bath it with acetone, which is probably the best reason to use it. Price and durability seem to be in its favor as well. My printer also only has 2 settings for plastic type. PLA and ABS, I bet some other types might work if I messed around with custom settings but the printer manufacturer doesn't confirm that any types of plastic besides those will work with the printer.