Hi, yes the inside heat on the tyres isn’t due to the setup but actually due to the exhaust system that runs right behind the rear tyres. We are working on a fix for this 👍
If you go stiffer with the springs won't this reduce roll and therefore mean you actually need to back off some of that negative camber you've just added?
Thanks for the comment. Quite the opposite actually 👍 the stiffer springs you go, the more camber that is required. This is because instead of the chassis rolling around inside the wheels, it is actually forced to lean and lift the chassis onto the wheels, requiring more camber the stiffer you go. All is explained in our next video when the stiffer springs go on 👍
Would love to see what the actual suspension settings you're using are, camber, toe and swaybar settings to see if it's close to what I have dialled in over the last couple years.
Thanks for the comment 🙏 we do share our settings with customers but we reserve them for our customers who purchase our upgrades from our online store 👍 As an added perk for our customers we provide a full suspension setup sheet with our developed settings to help them get the most out of their cars 🙌 we also speak with the customer so we can tailor the setup for them based upon their tyre choice, main use of the car and intended driving style 🙌 We do provide a plethora of information over on our website though that teach everyone how to develop their chassis and achieve optimum setup numbers too 👍
Really interesting series. I was surprised how little difference the temperature sensor picked before and after, I was expecting the rears to load up more and to see much more inside temperatures on the fronts but instead the temperatures look largely the same distribution wise, just colder after. It also looks like there is less variance over the whole surface of the tyre on the after. Did you run higher tyre pressure after upgrades perhaps?
Thanks for the comment and really pleased you’re enjoying the series 👍 yes this is something we reference to as we are now starting with a well setup car and simply refining it to get more from the chassis. The rears were loading up more but the difference is no longer night and day as the setup we did at Anglesey really helped to dial out the chronic understeer. What we did see was a reduction in overheating the outer edges as the increase in camber with the plates and arms fitted allowed the tyre temps to stay much more consistent with a perfect spread across the entire compound through the corners. What doesn’t come across in the video though is the difference in the amount of laps we could do before the tyres started to give in and need a rest. Before hand they were lasting about 10 minutes but afterwards Chris was putting in around 30 minute hard sessions with no signs of the tyre giving in 🙌 Pressures were always kept the same between data sets too 👍
The consistency of the red lines on the inner rear tires, regardless of other changes, makes me suspect the exhaust could be a factor. The OAPs + GPFs are very close to those sidewalls. Thank you for the interesting videos.
That’s a great observation and well worth considering 🤔 we will look into this and see if we can further improve the heat shielding to help with it. We do expect the inner edges to run hot consistently due to the toe in and the fact that Chris is pedal to the metal lap after lap so is using the rear tyres as hard as possible for these laps but we will definitely investigate the effect of the exhaust over the tyre.
Absolutely spot on. The exhaust will/might also play a role in how the damper behaves as the fluid warms up etc, Porsche probably account for this but maybe aftermarket solutions (Manthey excepted) don't. The heat coming off the rear wheel well after a session in mine is always surprising. Also - a lot of the aftermarket exhaust solutions dont have the same heat shields in that area that the oem Porsche system does.
@@SuspensionSecrets Wouldn't toe in scrub the outer edges and toe out scrub the inner ones? I would've thought the camber if anything would be the thing scrubbing the inside a bit more, no? I'd love to learn something!
@@nesmio7378 in a straight line the toe would scrub the inner edges. Camber often gets the blame for this as ultimately camber is the reason that the inner edges are in contact with the ground in a straight line. However, toe angle puts slip angle into the compound which generates grip and therefore heat. So in a straight line, the rear toe setting is effectively twisting the rubber that is in contact with the ground to generate the traction, but this leads to the increase in heat too within the rubber 👍
@@HondaExige1 a great point and one we will definitely be delving into further. We might even have to fire up our damper dyno and heat the shocks in situ to see what effect this heat has over the damper forces 🤔
Thank you! For the parts supplied, fitted and fully setup comes to £2008 inc vat. If you have any further questions feel free to pop us an email or a call 👍
Another fantastic video. Just wondering how the tyres are holding up? Are you running multiple sets or are the changes you make improving the issue you noted in your first video with excessive wear and overheating? Ultimately your GT4 is a great trackday car so is it being improved in this respect?
Thanks for the comment! We had a fresh set on the car for Oulton Park as we killed them at Anglesey in the first episode. The fresh tyres are also important for us to overlay the data accurately and be able to compare the chassis difference between episodes. Yes that’s right, episode 1 was about maximising standard adjustment to make it better on track but also much much better on the roads. From this point forwards we are focusing on making it as good on track as possible. The next episode at Silverstone we turn it into a fully fledged track car 👍
It’s really interesting isn’t it 👍 this is why it’s so important to have the data and the professional drivers and their feedback as suspension is also a subjective matter as well as a physical data matter. When you bring the two together to develop the chassis you get the great results 🙌
We provide our settings to our customers and online customers who purchase our products as an additional perk to let them get the most from their car 👍 In terms of the point of the series, there are a few. We are showing our development stages and the lengths we go to in order to develop our products and our settings to ensure that all of our work is based upon real data and professional driver feedback 👍 we chose to use the IR sensors to give a visual guide to show you how some changes to setup have such a large effect over tyre performance to show the true importance of a good chassis setup 🙌
Why you are not showing the stock numbers, the numbers after maximizing the stock components and then the numbers after installing the rear toe arms and the front mounts?? Also why not discussing why you decided to install front mounts vs only installing shims in the front?? All those pieces of information would be very helpful
Thanks for the comment 👍 we don’t publish the exact numbers on our video as this is also what we do 👍 all of our customers who purchase our parts online get access to our setups and recommended settings FOC as an added perk 👍 We would love to bring you the perfect video with every piece of information covered but it’s not always possible as a lot goes into making these videos and ensuring we can provide the data, drivers, video footage etc to create the content. A great question with regards to shims vs top mounts on the front axle too! The reason we prefer the top mounts is for two reasons. Using shims to increase the camber by large amounts causes the wheel to move forwards in the wheel arch quite a lot which can lead to the tyre catching the arch liner excessively on lock. With the top mounts we increase caster by leaning the tyre backwards, reducing arch liner contact but still increasing caster by a fixed offset that we machine into our top mounts. Furthermore, sometimes an uneven amount of shims are required to set the camber evenly due to discrepancies in different chassis’. In these cases you would also have different amounts of caster on the left and right wheels whereas with top mounts the caster remains the same even if the top mounts are in slightly different positions 👍 Hope this helps. Any more questions feel free to ask
Thanks for the detailed response and I understand this is a business and you will keep the numbers for your customers, what you mentioned about shims vs mounts is true regarding caster but to a certain extent of negative camber, if you are staying around -2.5 in the front shims actually create a wider foot print as it pushes the bottom of the tire out vs pulling the top of the tire in while keeping the caster in spec . If you are aiming to a track focused setup aiming to a more aggressive camber (-3+) then the mounts are needed to keep the caster within spec. So it would be a good idea to tell your viewers (that I assure you most of them want a good balance between track and street otherwise they know this already) that this will be a track focused setup and not suitable for the street. Therefore my comment about the alignment numbers, cause it can cause a bit of confusion to a GT4 owner that wants to setup his car properly and fix the understeer safety setup from factory. Great series of videos though, congratulations
@@feralc no problem at all 👍 thanks for watching! Yes it is true that the shims add slightly wider track width but the gains from the track increase due to shims is fractional. We would still recommend the top mounts over shims for road use settings beyond stock as our top mounts also increase the caster within the system. With increased caster, you get increased dynamic camber gain. This means that as you turn the steering wheel the negative camber increases on the outside wheels as you go through the corner. This means that you can run less static camber but still achieve mid corner camber settings like a car running much more static camber but without the caster. This feature actually makes the top mounts even more suitable for road use as you can maintain the straight line braking traction and wet weather dispersion benefits of running slightly less camber but maintain the mid corner grip levels through the caster 👍 We will definitely take your comments on board and try to get more detail into our further videos 🙌
@@SuspensionSecrets Been following your content and site for awhile, thanks for putting it together. Honestly alignment numbers are not a trade secret. They can be reproduce easily. Consider producing them as content that when people speak about them, your brand is associated with those settings. The paddock/cars and coffee conversation goes from 'I'm running -3 degrees front and -2.7 rear" to "I'm using SuspensionSecrets settings, they are on their website"
@@edub0Special secret settings cost money, this is why they won’t tell you, people will pay more when they think there getting unique settings that no one else can offer, I’d like my GT4 set up but for a novice driver like myself I’ll be happy to pay less than a quarter of the price to what they charge, yes they are very good but I’ve had a quote and they are pretty expensive but hay profit isn’t a swear word so good luck to them, great video’s as well.
It’s quite difficult to get everything into one video with the driver feedback, IR sensor data, G and speed data with the overlays 👍 we hope you’re enjoying the visual representation that the sensors show 🙌
@@SuspensionSecrets I mean the data of the alignment for example. The stock camber goes to -2.0 we know, but even that's not mentioned. Just sayn "more camber" "more camber" but we never really know what is more. 2.2 like Manthey racing or 3.0 like some hardcore guys. And of course the balance between the front and rear is also not mentioned.
@@FreestylerAlbert thank you for your feedback, we will definitely take it into account for our future videos. With regards to the settings, the stock car maxes around around -1.9 to -2.3 depending on chassis and ride height as we see them vary often when setting them up. Our top mounts increase this to a potential maximum of -3.8 allowing for settings to be used from road numbers right through to slicks and everything in between. The camber settings are also tyre dependant so vary between compounds as they deliver different levels of grip to the car. We have a video covering tyre choices for the Porsche and how they affect the setup coming soon actually 🙌
the inside part of both rear tyre is getting quite hot in thise setup.
Hi, yes the inside heat on the tyres isn’t due to the setup but actually due to the exhaust system that runs right behind the rear tyres. We are working on a fix for this 👍
@@SuspensionSecrets yea i saw that comment too , looking forward to your video on that. seems interesting
Are you going to ceramic coat the over Axle exhaust pipes to bring the heat emitted from the pipes down
Brilliant video series 👌
Thank you 🙏 glad you’re enjoying it 🙌
If you go stiffer with the springs won't this reduce roll and therefore mean you actually need to back off some of that negative camber you've just added?
Thanks for the comment. Quite the opposite actually 👍 the stiffer springs you go, the more camber that is required. This is because instead of the chassis rolling around inside the wheels, it is actually forced to lean and lift the chassis onto the wheels, requiring more camber the stiffer you go. All is explained in our next video when the stiffer springs go on 👍
Would love to see what the actual suspension settings you're using are, camber, toe and swaybar settings to see if it's close to what I have dialled in over the last couple years.
This is why it’s called suspension SECRETS, you’ll never get to know
Unless someone like a customer is kind enough to share.
Thanks for the comment 🙏 we do share our settings with customers but we reserve them for our customers who purchase our upgrades from our online store 👍
As an added perk for our customers we provide a full suspension setup sheet with our developed settings to help them get the most out of their cars 🙌 we also speak with the customer so we can tailor the setup for them based upon their tyre choice, main use of the car and intended driving style 🙌
We do provide a plethora of information over on our website though that teach everyone how to develop their chassis and achieve optimum setup numbers too 👍
Swapped out the standard suspension for the Nitron NTR3 running Rear 120n/mm &
Front 70n/mm. Night and day.
Great move! Updating the suspension is so worth it! We will be getting round to replacing dampers later in the series 💪
Really interesting series. I was surprised how little difference the temperature sensor picked before and after, I was expecting the rears to load up more and to see much more inside temperatures on the fronts but instead the temperatures look largely the same distribution wise, just colder after. It also looks like there is less variance over the whole surface of the tyre on the after. Did you run higher tyre pressure after upgrades perhaps?
Thanks for the comment and really pleased you’re enjoying the series 👍 yes this is something we reference to as we are now starting with a well setup car and simply refining it to get more from the chassis. The rears were loading up more but the difference is no longer night and day as the setup we did at Anglesey really helped to dial out the chronic understeer.
What we did see was a reduction in overheating the outer edges as the increase in camber with the plates and arms fitted allowed the tyre temps to stay much more consistent with a perfect spread across the entire compound through the corners.
What doesn’t come across in the video though is the difference in the amount of laps we could do before the tyres started to give in and need a rest. Before hand they were lasting about 10 minutes but afterwards Chris was putting in around 30 minute hard sessions with no signs of the tyre giving in 🙌
Pressures were always kept the same between data sets too 👍
The consistency of the red lines on the inner rear tires, regardless of other changes, makes me suspect the exhaust could be a factor. The OAPs + GPFs are very close to those sidewalls. Thank you for the interesting videos.
That’s a great observation and well worth considering 🤔 we will look into this and see if we can further improve the heat shielding to help with it.
We do expect the inner edges to run hot consistently due to the toe in and the fact that Chris is pedal to the metal lap after lap so is using the rear tyres as hard as possible for these laps but we will definitely investigate the effect of the exhaust over the tyre.
Absolutely spot on. The exhaust will/might also play a role in how the damper behaves as the fluid warms up etc, Porsche probably account for this but maybe aftermarket solutions (Manthey excepted) don't. The heat coming off the rear wheel well after a session in mine is always surprising.
Also - a lot of the aftermarket exhaust solutions dont have the same heat shields in that area that the oem Porsche system does.
@@SuspensionSecrets Wouldn't toe in scrub the outer edges and toe out scrub the inner ones?
I would've thought the camber if anything would be the thing scrubbing the inside a bit more, no?
I'd love to learn something!
@@nesmio7378 in a straight line the toe would scrub the inner edges. Camber often gets the blame for this as ultimately camber is the reason that the inner edges are in contact with the ground in a straight line. However, toe angle puts slip angle into the compound which generates grip and therefore heat. So in a straight line, the rear toe setting is effectively twisting the rubber that is in contact with the ground to generate the traction, but this leads to the increase in heat too within the rubber 👍
@@HondaExige1 a great point and one we will definitely be delving into further. We might even have to fire up our damper dyno and heat the shocks in situ to see what effect this heat has over the damper forces 🤔
Awsome video, what’s the price on this kit fitted and set up please
Thank you! For the parts supplied, fitted and fully setup comes to £2008 inc vat.
If you have any further questions feel free to pop us an email or a call 👍
Do you have the springs for sale as a separate item or only in the full kit?
Does this car have adjustable rear sway bar?
It does indeed 👍 anti roll bars and ride heights were all set as part of our setup in the previous episode 👍
Another fantastic video. Just wondering how the tyres are holding up? Are you running multiple sets or are the changes you make improving the issue you noted in your first video with excessive wear and overheating? Ultimately your GT4 is a great trackday car so is it being improved in this respect?
Thanks for the comment! We had a fresh set on the car for Oulton Park as we killed them at Anglesey in the first episode. The fresh tyres are also important for us to overlay the data accurately and be able to compare the chassis difference between episodes.
Yes that’s right, episode 1 was about maximising standard adjustment to make it better on track but also much much better on the roads. From this point forwards we are focusing on making it as good on track as possible.
The next episode at Silverstone we turn it into a fully fledged track car 👍
Surprised that the drive said need more angle in the rear when the tire temp showed that the inside rears were red
It’s really interesting isn’t it 👍 this is why it’s so important to have the data and the professional drivers and their feedback as suspension is also a subjective matter as well as a physical data matter. When you bring the two together to develop the chassis you get the great results 🙌
@@SuspensionSecrets thanks for the feed back
Thanks for sharing the knowledge
@@ciscovip1 no problem 🙌
inside rears red come by toe in would be my guess
might be super secret, but what are your suspension numbers? what's the point if you're not going to say the numbers?
We provide our settings to our customers and online customers who purchase our products as an additional perk to let them get the most from their car 👍
In terms of the point of the series, there are a few. We are showing our development stages and the lengths we go to in order to develop our products and our settings to ensure that all of our work is based upon real data and professional driver feedback 👍 we chose to use the IR sensors to give a visual guide to show you how some changes to setup have such a large effect over tyre performance to show the true importance of a good chassis setup 🙌
Why you are not showing the stock numbers, the numbers after maximizing the stock components and then the numbers after installing the rear toe arms and the front mounts?? Also why not discussing why you decided to install front mounts vs only installing shims in the front?? All those pieces of information would be very helpful
Thanks for the comment 👍 we don’t publish the exact numbers on our video as this is also what we do 👍 all of our customers who purchase our parts online get access to our setups and recommended settings FOC as an added perk 👍
We would love to bring you the perfect video with every piece of information covered but it’s not always possible as a lot goes into making these videos and ensuring we can provide the data, drivers, video footage etc to create the content.
A great question with regards to shims vs top mounts on the front axle too! The reason we prefer the top mounts is for two reasons. Using shims to increase the camber by large amounts causes the wheel to move forwards in the wheel arch quite a lot which can lead to the tyre catching the arch liner excessively on lock. With the top mounts we increase caster by leaning the tyre backwards, reducing arch liner contact but still increasing caster by a fixed offset that we machine into our top mounts.
Furthermore, sometimes an uneven amount of shims are required to set the camber evenly due to discrepancies in different chassis’. In these cases you would also have different amounts of caster on the left and right wheels whereas with top mounts the caster remains the same even if the top mounts are in slightly different positions 👍
Hope this helps. Any more questions feel free to ask
Thanks for the detailed response and I understand this is a business and you will keep the numbers for your customers, what you mentioned about shims vs mounts is true regarding caster but to a certain extent of negative camber, if you are staying around -2.5 in the front shims actually create a wider foot print as it pushes the bottom of the tire out vs pulling the top of the tire in while keeping the caster in spec . If you are aiming to a track focused setup aiming to a more aggressive camber (-3+) then the mounts are needed to keep the caster within spec. So it would be a good idea to tell your viewers (that I assure you most of them want a good balance between track and street otherwise they know this already) that this will be a track focused setup and not suitable for the street. Therefore my comment about the alignment numbers, cause it can cause a bit of confusion to a GT4 owner that wants to setup his car properly and fix the understeer safety setup from factory. Great series of videos though, congratulations
@@feralc no problem at all 👍 thanks for watching! Yes it is true that the shims add slightly wider track width but the gains from the track increase due to shims is fractional. We would still recommend the top mounts over shims for road use settings beyond stock as our top mounts also increase the caster within the system. With increased caster, you get increased dynamic camber gain. This means that as you turn the steering wheel the negative camber increases on the outside wheels as you go through the corner. This means that you can run less static camber but still achieve mid corner camber settings like a car running much more static camber but without the caster.
This feature actually makes the top mounts even more suitable for road use as you can maintain the straight line braking traction and wet weather dispersion benefits of running slightly less camber but maintain the mid corner grip levels through the caster 👍
We will definitely take your comments on board and try to get more detail into our further videos 🙌
@@SuspensionSecrets Been following your content and site for awhile, thanks for putting it together. Honestly alignment numbers are not a trade secret. They can be reproduce easily. Consider producing them as content that when people speak about them, your brand is associated with those settings. The paddock/cars and coffee conversation goes from 'I'm running -3 degrees front and -2.7 rear" to "I'm using SuspensionSecrets settings, they are on their website"
@@edub0Special secret settings cost money, this is why they won’t tell you, people will pay more when they think there getting unique settings that no one else can offer, I’d like my GT4 set up but for a novice driver like myself I’ll be happy to pay less than a quarter of the price to what they charge, yes they are very good but I’ve had a quote and they are pretty expensive but hay profit isn’t a swear word so good luck to them, great video’s as well.
I really miss the exact numbers and data fromt he video.
It’s quite difficult to get everything into one video with the driver feedback, IR sensor data, G and speed data with the overlays 👍 we hope you’re enjoying the visual representation that the sensors show 🙌
@@SuspensionSecrets I mean the data of the alignment for example.
The stock camber goes to -2.0 we know, but even that's not mentioned. Just sayn "more camber" "more camber" but we never really know what is more. 2.2 like Manthey racing or 3.0 like some hardcore guys. And of course the balance between the front and rear is also not mentioned.
@@FreestylerAlbert thank you for your feedback, we will definitely take it into account for our future videos.
With regards to the settings, the stock car maxes around around -1.9 to -2.3 depending on chassis and ride height as we see them vary often when setting them up. Our top mounts increase this to a potential maximum of -3.8 allowing for settings to be used from road numbers right through to slicks and everything in between.
The camber settings are also tyre dependant so vary between compounds as they deliver different levels of grip to the car. We have a video covering tyre choices for the Porsche and how they affect the setup coming soon actually 🙌