In most of 19th century, "German-made" carried very similar connotations as "Chinese-made" does today (at least in the english-speaking world)- that being low quality, mass produced, cheap goods. It was only during the late 1870s-1880s that Germany started to turn that reputation around as heavy investment in industry from the newly-formed German state allowed german industry to catch up to more developed industries in the UK and France.
@@marshall00jjr Yes! Ugly, little, slab sided thing with the absolute least amount of machine work necessary to function, but function flawlessly, it did.
Back in the '60s my brother was in the Army, stationed at Sinope, Turkey. He wrote me that he could get six Colt revolvers for $90, so I jumped at the chance. When I got them, they were God-awful copies of the M1851. REALLY bad. Because of the design flaw, they ended up being the "Swayback model" where they sagged in the middle where the barrel met the cylinder. Some had "Saml Coult" on the barrel, others were unmarked. I took one apart to clean it and nearly crapped at how bad the workmanship was. Screw threads looked like they were scribed on and I could barely get it back together again. I suspect some of these saw service in the Crimean War as they were super scroungy, but that's just my thought. I ended up selling them for $25 each at a Yuma, AZ gun show a few years later and kissed my hands that I made out so well.
Hah! I was stationed at Sinop in 1971/72 and bought one of these too. Mine was marked Colt Brevette but the quality was about what you describe. I was told they were made by prison labor.
Makes me think of the Japanese guitars of the '70s that copied Gibson designs. Lots of garbage, but a few brands like Tokai and Greco that still sell for about the same price that a modern secondhand Gibson would. Great way to get a vintage '58 burst without paying for a '58 burst.
So ~$300,000 for two years pay, when all you had to do was put a crooked stamp on the barrel of pistols and take the money? Sounds like the job for me!
It's great, that Ian picks up the topic of copyright and patent, which was a big discussion in the comments a few videos ago. This shows how close Ian is to the community and viewers' issues.
I can assure you, in French, it is. For real. It's not in the dictionnary and it's never written, only spoken, but, it's used surprisingly often in many serious discussions and usually manages to convey thoughts better than words would.
You are an outlaw.You are challenged to a duel by a local.Your palms get very sweaty because you know your gun is not a legitimate copy.The local shoots you with his authentic Colt revolver.You lay on the floor and squirm like a worm while your blood drains off.You look up at the man who took your life, his gun gleaming in the sunlight. The last thing you see... 20:31 :)
In upper case fonts, at this time they didn't write accents, but it is actually supposed to say "BREVETÉ" with an accent on the final E of breveté (because that is a past participle of the verb to patent [something] ("breveter [quelque chose]" (whose final R is mute, btw)). The "-é" at the end of "breveté" is here just like "-ed" at the end of the english word "patentED"... so fyi, one would be supposed to say something a little more like "bruh-vtay" (or alternatively "bruh-vuh-tay" depending on the region) than "bruh-vaytt" ... though you got the pronunciation of the first half absolutely right which is very often tricky for other Americans. Moreover, all of that french nerdery is not very important at all because the video is great and as usual I learnt a lot thanks to it! You're the best Ian :D
When "kindof a vaguely Colt-shaped gun" is the best description of your personal protection, you probably should have ponied up a little more cash comrade.
This thought gives me an irrational urge to photoshop a gun barrel and trigger onto a MLP toy. Perhaps fortunately it's not a sufficiently strong urge to get me to actually hunt down the requisite art.
Chuck met with the Immortal Incarnation of Time, (Chronos), and lay a beating on him so VICIOUS that...this 'TIME' guy hasn’t touched Chuck in years-apparently some twenty-five years!!
Interesting as usual. I don't know how patents were based in 1830 but today that wouldn't be allowed in UK. Using the hammer to turn the cylinder is an idea - not patentable - how you use the hammer to turn the cylinder is patentable. Watt patented the crank to convert linear motion to rotary, but there are lots of other ways to do it which don't use a crank.
When you compare the BREVETE on the "square back triggerguard" with the BREVETE from the first guns, you can also see those stripes on the engraving. Ian said the square trigger guard was legit, but to me the BREVETE seems engraved not stamped. You can see it very good around 17:55
I'm just shocked all those cylinders clicked when you turned them, the hand spring on my first Pietta stopped doing that after two range visits and these hundred plus year old knock offs are still going strong lol.
I really enjoy these slightly longer videos, where you really "nerd out" in some forgotten corner of firearms history. Big fan of the channel. Keep up the good work. A personal request: An original swiss SIG p210 "Neuhausen" 9MM. They are still a standard sidearm in the danish army (I've shot one, when I was a conscript), but I've yet to come across any quality videos on it anywhere, and would love to know more about it. (It's a fantastic shooter, btw)
I have always wished I could afford one. Here in the U.S. of A., a P-210 can cost $4,000 for a 'perfect' one, and that is ONLY if you can find someone willing to part with theirs.
I like to imagine Sam Colt's ghost roams around in the afterlife chasing down these unlicensed gunmakers and beating them up for besmirching his good name.
in french, "breveté" can be translated into "patented". though i'm not sure if it's really more about a patent, or a manufactured good authorised with a licence (like the "apple official reseller" type of deal). it's an old inscription, so standards and nomenclatures probably changed since then, enough that it may not really be accutrate in today's terms..
I think it is tilted upward, or at least it's weird handle makes it look like it is. Also funny how it being the shittiest and most blatant knock-off sold for the most by far. O_o I've no clue why.. Some dumbass with too much money getting caught in a bidding war I presume.
Wow that 2nd one with engraving and partially-turned barrel looks really nice. Smart move by the Gunsmith, you would be able to spot his work from across the room if that was a calling-card feature he included on all his guns. That little octagon section on the end kinda makes it look like there's a compensator.
Yeah that particular Colt Brevete is gorgeous. I would not have felt ripped off if I purchased that pistol at the time. I think the last of the 'meh' Colts (the one before the bad examples) would've been nice too if it had proper markings and proofing.
Wow Ian that was an amazingly informative video. As an Aussie who doesn't see much in the way of firearms, historic or otherwise. I would never even be able to guess that half of those were essentially knock offs. Do keep up your Brilliant work. Cheers!
The revolver at 13:36 is beautiful. If I didn't know any better, I'd think it was a legitimate Colt. It just goes to show not all knockoff guns are bad, and that there's a huge range of quality that you can find. I didn't expect to enjoy this video as much as I did. I always enjoy videos on knockoff guns--especially Chinese knockoffs--but this video was inherently fascinating.
easy to see its not a legitimate Colt ...all Navy 1851 from Colts have a Cylinder scene with the Texian Sea battle ,ok the Octagonal Barrel can later tuned in a round barrel like a southern Copy
This is actually pretty cool, I love seeing guns that partially use official parts and guns that have wacky shapes compared to what I think of as the standard profiles.
I hate to do it but my inner nerd demands it "Engravings give you no tactical advantage whatsoever." Also while I'm already going there. "This is the greatest handgun ever made. The Colt Single Action Army. Six bullets, more than enough to kill anything that moves."
I’ve done some Architectural Sculpting where I have seen that pattern of engraving on building flourishes. I am pretty certain you could date the gun with the "child’s doodles" from the pattern of engraving. I will see if I can find it in one of my pattern books.
The German gun, last one shown before the 'crappy ones': it had a foresight which looked too big for the slot it was in, and was overhanging on both sides. It seemed to me to have been added much later; (by someone who only wanted a front sight and didn't care about looks. Likely belonged to another kind of gun.) if comparing the fairly neat finish of everything else was anything to go by.
Its so bizarre how the bidding went on the pistols. The "nicer" ones tending on the cheaper side and in my opinion the worst made one, Russian: $10,925
It is on my list; just need to find one. I had a chance a year or two back, but the gun was broken. I do have about a dozen trounds stashed away in case I'm able to do some shooting at some point.
13:35 Now I know what I want to do to my Italian 1851 Sheriff's barrel. I'm not a fan of the octagonal barrel as a whole, and I don't want the fuss of having to re-dovetail the lever catch.
Also do more Civil War Guns and Artillery Pieces ...DO a forgotten weapons on 12pd Napoleon cannons or Lee Enfield pattern Rifled Muskets....loved the ones you did on the Sharps rifle and the Henry rifle even if they are rather lightly used for specialty troops back then but damn they were cool also if you already did those episodes let me know where to find em cause im missing them along the way. Love the Videos and love all the period guns you have a very calm and easy to listen to voice and you show off the coolest guns in history.
Thank you for this very nice presentation of this colt brevet area of collecting very, very interesting. You do a very nice job in your presentations simple, visual and clear.
On the first gun with bad engraving at 20:00 the machining seems so many leagues better than the engraving. That makes me think that maybe the engraving was done well after manufacture or at least not by the manufacturer. Someone saw through what it was and let an amateur or student engraver give it a try or something like that.
On that last one, you can see the cylinder gap open and close as the cylinder is rotated. I guess that was a feature so you knew which chamber you were on by the amount of fire blowing out...
Just to be clear (US general law): Patents - Generally the design of a physical object, but can include more abstract concepts. Lasts 10-20 years, does not require enforcement to keep, and must be registered with a national government. Copyright - The content of a work of art. Lasts extremely long (70+ years), does not require enforcement to keep, and does not require registration. The act of simply creating the work grants you copyrights, although registration grants some benefits. Trademark - The general presentation of something in commerce. Basically if someone can reasonably confuse someone else's product with yours, it may violate your trademark. Lasts as long as you continue to use it, requires registration, and you must enforce it. If you slip and your product name becomes the general term for the item, you may lose your trademark. Trademarks are also defined within a certain context. For example FedEx has trademarked the color brown, but only within the context of shipping. If these counterfeit guns were not stamped and sold as Colt weapons, then they are violating patent law. If they are stamped and sold as Colt weapons then they are violating both patent and trademark law.
I can just imagine ol' Sam Colt pulling his hair out and getting his trousers in a twist over the counterfeit "Colt" guns coming out of the Phillipines and Afghan Alley LOL.
7:30 it may seem extreme but it seems like a good way to keep the copywrite holder alive. If it were a short while after the creator dying then you never know what kind of "accidents" could happen.
14:23 - ...That is, assuming you put your _own_ name on the guns. I can just imagine someone making counterfeit Colts putting a _different_ manufacturer's name on them to cover their tracks and potentially get a competitor in legal hot water...
just as extra info, it only spells "BREVETE" because it's in caps, the real word used here is "breveté" (patented) - which means in this context "Colt - Breveté" = "patented by colt"
+Forgotten Weapons are the numbres at 19.44 assembly numbres? (to know which screw fits which hole) And wouldn't the hammer block the sights on the last gun?
Thanks a million for the Video, Great to see these attempts to break into Colts millions. I would not mind having one of them, just functional you know. I once took a "kit" colt navy copy in trade. It was about half done. Just far enough to really screw everything up. Took me about a year with files and rasps to get it to even look colty then a few months of tinkering to get it all in working order. After taking her our for a test blast I drove by the body shop where the previous owner worked. H took one look at it and was absolutely thrilled. He ha not told me before but his father had purchased the kit and worked on it at night on the dining room table till his mom condemned all gun work to the basement. After his fathers death he had tried several times to finish it but being about half blind he never was able to get it together. He once took it to a gunsmith who laughed him out of the shop. I did a nice job on it though, after getting all the 'oh shits' out of it I polished her up so well it would make a Smith and Wesson builder blush, cut a brand new set of grip blanks out of some very fancy walnut and then checkered it to a full checker. Oh she was a beauty, she was when I finished, then a full hot bluing when we ran the tanks the next time. She shot well as well after getting everything squared away. The fellow would not let me out of his shop with the gun, he wanted it back so badly that I took a nearly new Smith and Wesson Model 13 (not my favorite but better then a cap an ball..." and an engine for my daughter's little Buick which sort of gave out on her while away at college.
colt was out in london attending the military arms trials at woolwich in 1854 just before the crimea think he was trying to recoup potential losses due to patent expiration by getting in early to the allies to buy genuine colts from him rather than the cheaper european rivals
20:29 that guy was revolutionary, he put a smiley in the trigger guard of a gun in the 1800s
A German made firearm without markings and serial numbers on every single piece, part, and loose screw on it? I don't believe you.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine Love my Gmbh, little pos just tickles me.
I mean they make plastic firearms that melt
In most of 19th century, "German-made" carried very similar connotations as "Chinese-made" does today (at least in the english-speaking world)- that being low quality, mass produced, cheap goods. It was only during the late 1870s-1880s that Germany started to turn that reputation around as heavy investment in industry from the newly-formed German state allowed german industry to catch up to more developed industries in the UK and France.
Lol, my Rohm .22 immediately sprang to mind. #notallgermanguns
@@marshall00jjr Yes! Ugly, little, slab sided thing with the absolute least amount of machine work necessary to function, but function flawlessly, it did.
Colt "Brevete" Copies: Legal, Illegal, Post-Legal, Illegalstep, Legalwave, Illegalcore
HeavyLegal
Speed Legal, Folk Legal
Garage legal, alternative legal, legal punk, steam legal.
Deathlegal
A. Lampman What? I do not get it.
Never thought I'd be the kinda guy to take interest in markings and such. You're turning me into a nerd, Ian.
Bwahahaha! My evil plans are working! :)
Forgotte
@ n Weapons
Forgotten Weapons لا
Forgotten Weapons لالا
Forgotten Weapons لالا
Back in the '60s my brother was in the Army, stationed at Sinope, Turkey. He wrote me that he could get six Colt revolvers for $90, so I jumped at the chance. When I got them, they were God-awful copies of the M1851. REALLY bad. Because of the design flaw, they ended up being the "Swayback model" where they sagged in the middle where the barrel met the cylinder. Some had "Saml Coult" on the barrel, others were unmarked. I took one apart to clean it and nearly crapped at how bad the workmanship was. Screw threads looked like they were scribed on and I could barely get it back together again. I suspect some of these saw service in the Crimean War as they were super scroungy, but that's just my thought. I ended up selling them for $25 each at a Yuma, AZ gun show a few years later and kissed my hands that I made out so well.
Hah! I was stationed at Sinop in 1971/72 and bought one of these too. Mine was marked Colt Brevette but the quality was about what you describe. I was told they were made by prison labor.
Makes me think of the Japanese guitars of the '70s that copied Gibson designs. Lots of garbage, but a few brands like Tokai and Greco that still sell for about the same price that a modern secondhand Gibson would. Great way to get a vintage '58 burst without paying for a '58 burst.
I immediately thought of guitars too.
I actually play a very nice 1969 Jedson SG Bass from Japan from this era of copied Gibson designs. Great instrument and good quality.
I've got a Takamine copy of a Guild F512 from the 70s, and it's one of my favorite acoustic guitars.
love ur pfp lol
The $17000 francs in 1850 is something like $3,000,000 US today.
So ~$300,000 for two years pay, when all you had to do was put a crooked stamp on the barrel of pistols and take the money? Sounds like the job for me!
i know this was 4 years ago, but its closer to 250-300k today, so far less
@@jameshealy4594 He also had to verify the quality of the guns to make sure he wasn't putting Sam Colt's name on glorified hand grenades
Kids: mom can we get Colt 1851 navy revolver
Mom: we have Colt 1851 navy revolver at home
Colt 1851 navy revolver at home: 22:27
@@Org80 if you build it,its more fun and the Australian government can go kick rocks.
I love the technical terminology from Ian to describe the sub-par guns.
"Eeeuuuggghhh"
It's great, that Ian picks up the topic of copyright and patent, which was a big discussion in the comments a few videos ago. This shows how close Ian is to the community and viewers' issues.
almost 100% sure these are unrelated things
is "eeeuughhh" a technical term?
Absolutely.
I can assure you, in French, it is. For real. It's not in the dictionnary and it's never written, only spoken, but, it's used surprisingly often in many serious discussions and usually manages to convey thoughts better than words would.
"He's gonna be annoyed he finds you out"
Yea, do not piss off zombie Sam Colt.
Given some of the stories of that man’s temper, best not temp fate
The receiver at 17.12 is brass, it's the silver colour that is wearing off. You can see this in the high wear areas.
You are an outlaw.You are challenged to a duel by a local.Your palms get very sweaty because you know your gun is not a legitimate copy.The local shoots you with his authentic Colt revolver.You lay on the floor and squirm like a worm while your blood drains off.You look up at the man who took your life, his gun gleaming in the sunlight. The last thing you see... 20:31 :)
...that stupid grin on the trigger guard. Insult to injury
The last sound that comes from your dying throat...'Eeeeuugh'.
In upper case fonts, at this time they didn't write accents, but it is actually supposed to say "BREVETÉ" with an accent on the final E of breveté (because that is a past participle of the verb to patent [something] ("breveter [quelque chose]" (whose final R is mute, btw)).
The "-é" at the end of "breveté" is here just like "-ed" at the end of the english word "patentED"... so fyi, one would be supposed to say something a little more like "bruh-vtay" (or alternatively "bruh-vuh-tay" depending on the region) than "bruh-vaytt"
... though you got the pronunciation of the first half absolutely right which is very often tricky for other Americans. Moreover, all of that french nerdery is not very important at all because the video is great and as usual I learnt a lot thanks to it! You're the best Ian :D
I find it ironic that Colt's legacy is carried on by today almost entirely by foreign companies making unlicensed copies of his designs.
20:31 its staring into my soul.
I was wondering if anyone noticed how face-like that particular "engraving" looked.
Smileys!!!
Although the one on the trigger guard could be mistaken for female body parts at first glance :-P
Looks like a rare pepe
@@themoldycrow4890 or like that neighbour-frog from roccos modern life. i don't know what would be more surreal.
It's a troll face.
Trolling the buyer and Mr. Colt at the same time.
When "kindof a vaguely Colt-shaped gun" is the best description of your personal protection, you probably should have ponied up a little more cash comrade.
This thought gives me an irrational urge to photoshop a gun barrel and trigger onto a MLP toy. Perhaps fortunately it's not a sufficiently strong urge to get me to actually hunt down the requisite art.
@@nathanbrown8680 good news! I photoshopped exactly what you described. Bad news: I'm terrified of my creation
Aren´t Colt guns vaguely "Collier-shaped"?
Walker Texas Ranger saved Colt firearms?
Time travelling Chuck Norris saves the day again!
LOL
Walker was a Sgt. not a Cpt.
R. B. Rozier 🤷🏻♂️
Chuck met with the Immortal Incarnation of Time, (Chronos), and lay a beating on him so VICIOUS that...this 'TIME' guy hasn’t touched Chuck in years-apparently some twenty-five years!!
Copyright that and send Chuck a script "Time-Walker Texas Ranger!".
one wicked smiley face at 20:35
I'm glad I'm not the only one to see it.
Interesting as usual. I don't know how patents were based in 1830 but today that wouldn't be allowed in UK. Using the hammer to turn the cylinder is an idea - not patentable - how you use the hammer to turn the cylinder is patentable. Watt patented the crank to convert linear motion to rotary, but there are lots of other ways to do it which don't use a crank.
When you compare the BREVETE on the "square back triggerguard" with the BREVETE from the first guns, you can also see those stripes on the engraving. Ian said the square trigger guard was legit, but to me the BREVETE seems engraved not stamped. You can see it very good around 17:55
I'm just shocked all those cylinders clicked when you turned them, the hand spring on my first Pietta stopped doing that after two range visits and these hundred plus year old knock offs are still going strong lol.
I really enjoy these slightly longer videos, where you really "nerd out" in some forgotten corner of firearms history. Big fan of the channel. Keep up the good work.
A personal request: An original swiss SIG p210 "Neuhausen" 9MM. They are still a standard sidearm in the danish army (I've shot one, when I was a conscript), but I've yet to come across any quality videos on it anywhere, and would love to know more about it. (It's a fantastic shooter, btw)
I have always wished I could afford one. Here in the U.S. of A., a P-210 can cost $4,000 for a 'perfect' one, and that is ONLY if you can find someone willing to part with theirs.
Really digging these revolver uploads, keep 'em up!
I like to imagine Sam Colt's ghost roams around in the afterlife chasing down these unlicensed gunmakers and beating them up for besmirching his good name.
in french, "breveté" can be translated into "patented". though i'm not sure if it's really more about a patent, or a manufactured good authorised with a licence (like the "apple official reseller" type of deal). it's an old inscription, so standards and nomenclatures probably changed since then, enough that it may not really be accutrate in today's terms..
I love the idea of a cylinder scene, I wish we saw more of that today
The one with the hunting dog scroll really looks quite nice.
The barrel of the Russian one looks bent upwards slightly, to me at least.
I think it is tilted upward, or at least it's weird handle makes it look like it is.
Also funny how it being the shittiest and most blatant knock-off sold for the most by far. O_o I've no clue why.. Some dumbass with too much money getting caught in a bidding war I presume.
Sometimes the realy crappy forgeries are the most fun, In a what the hell was the maker thinking way.
Wow that 2nd one with engraving and partially-turned barrel looks really nice.
Smart move by the Gunsmith, you would be able to spot his work from across the room if that was a calling-card feature he included on all his guns.
That little octagon section on the end kinda makes it look like there's a compensator.
Yeah that particular Colt Brevete is gorgeous. I would not have felt ripped off if I purchased that pistol at the time. I think the last of the 'meh' Colts (the one before the bad examples) would've been nice too if it had proper markings and proofing.
Haha "Vaguely Colt shaped gun"
Maybe "Colt shaped object" is even better, I would be concerned to use some of these as anything but a paperweight.
so, what happened to guns that when inspected to be issued with a colt brevet, what happened to guns that were NOT accepted for the patent? destroyed?
I imagine they were turned down, like "Yeah... No. Nice try, bub."
20:21 I've thought about trying to hand engrave firearms before, and honestly that's way better than I could ever do.
Excuse me Ian, but the flag is incorrect. You need to use the Earth flag shown in Futurama.
Ah, but he always uses the flags employed at the time of manufacture.
Where applicable.
Zoidberg will just eat it. What’s the point.
Wow Ian that was an amazingly informative video. As an Aussie who doesn't see much in the way of firearms, historic or otherwise. I would never even be able to guess that half of those were essentially knock offs. Do keep up your Brilliant work. Cheers!
this will be my first auction ever and I can't wait ! thank you very much for all your videos 😀
The revolver at 13:36 is beautiful. If I didn't know any better, I'd think it was a legitimate Colt. It just goes to show not all knockoff guns are bad, and that there's a huge range of quality that you can find. I didn't expect to enjoy this video as much as I did. I always enjoy videos on knockoff guns--especially Chinese knockoffs--but this video was inherently fascinating.
easy to see its not a legitimate Colt ...all Navy 1851 from Colts have a Cylinder scene with the Texian Sea battle ,ok the Octagonal Barrel can later tuned in a round barrel like a southern Copy
I would watch your video's, if you didn't have any guns in front of you. Your history lessons are that good.
That's a fact, he could've taught my history class in my junior of year high school.
You don't like guns?
No, he means that he would watch his videos even if it wasn’t gun-related because he’s such a good storyteller
This is actually pretty cool, I love seeing guns that partially use official parts and guns that have wacky shapes compared to what I think of as the standard profiles.
I hate to do it but my inner nerd demands it "Engravings give you no tactical advantage whatsoever."
Also while I'm already going there. "This is the greatest handgun ever made. The Colt Single Action Army. Six bullets, more than enough to kill anything that moves."
In older blued steel guns engraving can actually give you a minor tactical advantage it can help diffuse glare from the sun
Kinda reminds me of the dutch mannlicher carbines episode. And by that i mean the amount of items on display
That last one looked pretty cool. It's like the maker jammed together an old muzzle loading dueling pistol with a Colt cylinder design.
I’ve done some Architectural Sculpting where I have seen that pattern of engraving on building flourishes. I am pretty certain you could date the gun with the "child’s doodles" from the pattern of engraving. I will see if I can find it in one of my pattern books.
The German gun, last one shown before the 'crappy ones': it had a foresight which looked too big for the slot it was in, and was overhanging on both sides. It seemed to me to have been added much later; (by someone who only wanted a front sight and didn't care about looks. Likely belonged to another kind of gun.) if comparing the fairly neat finish of everything else was anything to go by.
That Russian one 21:24 was scary, it didn't even look like the barrel was in line with the cylinder!
Its so bizarre how the bidding went on the pistols. The "nicer" ones tending on the cheaper side and in my opinion the worst made one, Russian: $10,925
Hey Ian, any way you can do a video on a Dardick pistol?
It is on my list; just need to find one. I had a chance a year or two back, but the gun was broken. I do have about a dozen trounds stashed away in case I'm able to do some shooting at some point.
Forgotten Weapons Nice to know it's in the works.
Keep doing what you're doing. It's appreciated.
13:35 Now I know what I want to do to my Italian 1851 Sheriff's barrel. I'm not a fan of the octagonal barrel as a whole, and I don't want the fuss of having to re-dovetail the lever catch.
Great video yet again. Please do one on the Mauser HsC.
The agent and lawyer Davos-Sera sounds like he may have been the world's first copyright settlement troll.
great long vid. seems the Sunday long video is becoming a norm haha. informative and brilliant as always.
The last gun you showed looks like someone looked at a picture of a Colt for 10 seconds and then tried to build one from memory.
THANKS for a fine exposition of a subtopic in the Colt black powder revolver world!
Also do more Civil War Guns and Artillery Pieces ...DO a forgotten weapons on 12pd Napoleon cannons or Lee Enfield pattern Rifled Muskets....loved the ones you did on the Sharps rifle and the Henry rifle even if they are rather lightly used for specialty troops back then but damn they were cool also if you already did those episodes let me know where to find em cause im missing them along the way. Love the Videos and love all the period guns you have a very calm and easy to listen to voice and you show off the coolest guns in history.
That freaky smiley on the trigger guard at 20:28 what the hell.
20:35 the Engraving on the trigger guard looks like a face drawn by a kindergartner.
Thank you for this very nice presentation of this colt brevet area of collecting very, very interesting. You do a very nice job in your presentations simple, visual and clear.
the last 1 kinda looks like it would be a target gun, low bore access , maybe colt action rather than colt pattern ?
looked like a Smith an Wesson #1 mixes with a Colt!!
I was thinking an old pepperbox that got retrofitted to a "Colt" revolver.
TheWantabeWarrior I was looking at the one in preticluar the one with the more rounded butt!!
That last one looks interesting; the bore axis seems a lot lower. I wonder why it is not a more popular grip style?
Lazarus Long - didn't Demolition Ranch just do a video on a modern pistol with this orientation of barrel?
On the first gun with bad engraving at 20:00 the machining seems so many leagues better than the engraving. That makes me think that maybe the engraving was done well after manufacture or at least not by the manufacturer. Someone saw through what it was and let an amateur or student engraver give it a try or something like that.
On that last one, you can see the cylinder gap open and close as the cylinder is rotated. I guess that was a feature so you knew which chamber you were on by the amount of fire blowing out...
I like the one with the numbered screws to go in the numbered holes for sheer "Why?" factor.
Thank you Ian. Very interesting and info I did not know. Great video as usual.
I've noticed that some of the worse copies seem to have the barrel angled in relation to the cylinder
Just to be clear (US general law):
Patents - Generally the design of a physical object, but can include more abstract concepts. Lasts 10-20 years, does not require enforcement to keep, and must be registered with a national government.
Copyright - The content of a work of art. Lasts extremely long (70+ years), does not require enforcement to keep, and does not require registration. The act of simply creating the work grants you copyrights, although registration grants some benefits.
Trademark - The general presentation of something in commerce. Basically if someone can reasonably confuse someone else's product with yours, it may violate your trademark. Lasts as long as you continue to use it, requires registration, and you must enforce it. If you slip and your product name becomes the general term for the item, you may lose your trademark.
Trademarks are also defined within a certain context. For example FedEx has trademarked the color brown, but only within the context of shipping.
If these counterfeit guns were not stamped and sold as Colt weapons, then they are violating patent law. If they are stamped and sold as Colt weapons then they are violating both patent and trademark law.
Never realized so many faked pistols around
Dumb question, but how is that proof mark applied to a finished gun? Do they just mallet it hard? Does this not deform parts?
Watching Ian talk shit about someone's great granpappy's hand engraving is the best part of my day.
am I the only one appreciating how funny does the word "revolutionary" sounded describing a revolver
I can just imagine ol' Sam Colt pulling his hair out and getting his trousers in a twist over the counterfeit "Colt" guns coming out of the Phillipines and Afghan Alley LOL.
This is a nice addendum to the “Peacemaker and It’s Rivals”.
The last guy looked at an 1851 and a Butterfield and was like "yes"
17:00 What are you on about.... it is clearly a white metal plated brass frame.... the f?
i wonder how many days it took for each gun
16:10 The gun maker may have gotten a legitimate Brevet stamp, but then engraved the address after it was proofed.
That is one happy trigger guard at 20:30
7:30 it may seem extreme but it seems like a good way to keep the copywrite holder alive. If it were a short while after the creator dying then you never know what kind of "accidents" could happen.
14:23 - ...That is, assuming you put your _own_ name on the guns. I can just imagine someone making counterfeit Colts putting a _different_ manufacturer's name on them to cover their tracks and potentially get a competitor in legal hot water...
wow, I can definitely see why these colt copies are so interesting. My favorite is the Belgian one with the hunting dogs.
20:32 for smilyface on triggerguard
just as extra info, it only spells "BREVETE" because it's in caps, the real word used here is "breveté" (patented) - which means in this context "Colt - Breveté" = "patented by colt"
+Forgotten Weapons are the numbres at 19.44 assembly numbres? (to know which screw fits which hole)
And wouldn't the hammer block the sights on the last gun?
the German one has some nice designs and styling by the trigger guard frame and barrel area
the one on the far left front is that on that is trying to be ascetically different enough that its legal
20:30 is that a smiley face on bottom of trigger guard lol.
The last gun looks more like an umbrella handle than a Colt.
Heh, at 20:30, that engraving on the trigger guard looks kinda like Pepe the frog doing the "U Mad Bro" troll-face.
Thanks a million for the Video, Great to see these attempts to break into Colts millions. I would not mind having one of them, just functional you know. I once took a "kit" colt navy copy in trade. It was about half done. Just far enough to really screw everything up. Took me about a year with files and rasps to get it to even look colty then a few months of tinkering to get it all in working order. After taking her our for a test blast I drove by the body shop where the previous owner worked. H took one look at it and was absolutely thrilled. He ha not told me before but his father had purchased the kit and worked on it at night on the dining room table till his mom condemned all gun work to the basement. After his fathers death he had tried several times to finish it but being about half blind he never was able to get it together. He once took it to a gunsmith who laughed him out of the shop. I did a nice job on it though, after getting all the 'oh shits' out of it I polished her up so well it would make a Smith and Wesson builder blush, cut a brand new set of grip blanks out of some very fancy walnut and then checkered it to a full checker. Oh she was a beauty, she was when I finished, then a full hot bluing when we ran the tanks the next time. She shot well as well after getting everything squared away. The fellow would not let me out of his shop with the gun, he wanted it back so badly that I took a nearly new Smith and Wesson Model 13 (not my favorite but better then a cap an ball..." and an engine for my daughter's little Buick which sort of gave out on her while away at college.
Haha colt seems like a chill dude, they should've done that with the bored through cylinder patent
I think the real missed opportunity colt had was not hiring the guys who made the best quality fakes with improvements.
17:18 I thought that was just really weird case hardening not going to lie
I think that this is my favorite forgotten weapons video... And I love the fg42 so that means a lot
I have a Belgian made Centaur, Colt 1860/1960 commemorative still new in the box. It’s looking for a good home.
10:12 The description of a bad gun I have every seen.
So this is why S&W made Rollin White cover the hassle of protecting his patent
Love that last one, looks a lot like a Pettengill Dragoon.
Such an interesting story, this legal matter. And as ever, beautiful old items.
colt was out in london attending the military arms trials at woolwich in 1854 just before the crimea think he was trying to recoup potential losses due to patent expiration by getting in early to the allies to buy genuine colts from him rather than the cheaper european rivals
That last one does get your hand away from any cylinder spray or chainfires, awkward as it looks.
what does the bluing do for the gun is it heat protection or rust protection?