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I am VERY impressed that the 308 was able to hang with the 6.5 Creedmoor out to over 1,000 yards! I suspect the high hit percentages had more to do with the Indian than the Bow.
169gr SMK has BCs like a 107gr 6mm, so .527 G1. It’s relatively light for a .308 since 175gr has been king of LR with .308 for many years, after a century of 173gr FMJBT in the .30-06 and 7.62x51 Sniper systems. The 6.5mm 144gr Berger Hybrid has a very high BC of .655 G1, but you can’t get it going very fast from a 6.5CM. The problem with both of them is not being able to self-spot. This is why I do this same thing but with 6.5 Grendel, even with a 12” barrel. 123gr ELD-M, 123gr SMK, and 123gr Scenar do about 2350-2400fps from the 12” Grendel. Fort Scott 123gr TUI does about 2320fps, BC is .571. Grendel converts the powder more efficiently than any of the above cartridges, recoil is half of them or less, so your sight picture just stays on and it’s more like a game of watching your own round connect. Very satisfying compared to .308 and 6.5CM. If he was using one in this video, you would see the reticle barely move and the round connect.
Thank you, really appreciate the compliments! Tell you what, I’d rather be lucky than good but it’s taken me years to be able to shoot at this level. Really though once the fundamentals are mastered it’s pretty easy to shoot the various different rifles with decent success
@@bitscorpion4687 it is not a outdated cartridge it is the most popular caliber in the world for a reason when it comes to hunting because it does have more energy and more velocity than the 6.5 Creedmoor , if you shoot the 6.5 Creedmoor in what a 308 common grain weight is the 6.5 will not be shooting that fast at all and 308 has more momentum than a 6.5 creedmoor and if you shoot the 308 in the same grain weight that the 6.5 shoots it goes faster . But everybody has their own opinion what their favorite caliber is and that’s fine.
Man, getting sponsored by Sierra and Griffin is such a flex! I'm still waiting for their supressor to come back in stock so I can put it on my PSA poor man m110 clone. I'm very glad to see you're getting all these sponsored because you deserved it, from making comparison videos to you shooting long range, people can learn a lot from you.
Another point for 308 in my debate in which to go with. The fact that you can go with high end rounds for long range accuracy or grab some 147 ball and go to town at closer ranges. Not to mention it's been a NATO round since NATO was a thing so the availability is more than adequate and cheaper due to the scale of production and tons of f data. A chrome lined 16" 308 could fill a lot of roles, especially with proper ammo selection.
The detail you go into is very impressive and exactly what is needed to review long range setups where so many variables can effect things. Your channel is amazing and your hard work really shows man. Keep up the great videos!
My custom DMR in .308 AR (18" Criton barrel) has no problem hitting out to 1200 yards. custom loads, 169 grain blem Hornday. My 6.5 creed is on a bolt gun Tikka T3X TAC A1 and I shoot 147 gr. Horn ELD. These run 1/4" Moa. at 100 yards. Thanks for the video!
My favorite shooting channel by far. Love the comparisons and informative content. Glad to see the 308 hang in there and certainly was surprised but about come to the conclusion a 16 or 18 in. 6.5 creedmoor would be nice to have also. Keep it coming. Thanks
The G1 BC on that 169gr SMK is .527, so it should be .263 G7. I always love the sound of .308 hitting steel, but I don’t love losing my sight picture in the process where I can’t self-spot. The .224s and 6mms don’t hit the steel very hard at all, so they are anemic and quiet. The Goldilocks is 6.5 Grendel, because 6.5CM comes off TGT too in the scope to where it’s difficult to self-spot.
@@ChanoLeyva-l8x It's easier with heavy guns shooting bipod/rear bag supported, but not from other positions like tripod, sitting, kneeling supported, etc. I do DM courses throughout the year and I focus on alternate positions because 75% of the course is field improvised positions. We shoot off tripods, trees, barricades, roofs, cars, windows, posts, cable spools, railroad ties, and 3-Day packs.
@@LRRPFco52 that’s awesome my rifle weights maybe 10 11 lbs so not crazy heavy, and yes this is from different positions as well, the break is that effective
@@ChanoLeyva-l8x Big problem with brakes shooting through loopholes is they send crap flying everywhere. Inside buildings, they will peel paint and shred construction materials, while kicking up dust and blowing out your and nearby dudes' ears. Suppressed is pretty much the way to go, so you get a bit of a push and some muzzle lift.
That 308 definitely hits harder. With better projectiles such as the 169smk I find the 308 a more effective DMR, greater authority can’t be under appreciated.
The Creed really needs a longer barrel to shine. Still, did better than I thought it would in a little 16”. .308 didn’t even feel the short barrel. Crushed it at 1250!
your comparison validates my choice in building a .308 AR as opposed to using the creed round. I'm shooting 1.5" groups @ 100yds as well. I'm looking fwd to stretching it out! nice vid, excellent presentation. thanks for all your work!
This is why youre such a good youtuber dude. You deserve so much credit for your work. Other yputubers will tell you all this data and they never show any real application. You're out in the range showing us. You are a great creator, and Im glad to see you're getting more recognition for your work. Keep at it, big dog.
What a great presentation. You produce just some damn good stuff! I feel like I learn something every video. Also, there is a reason the venerable 308 has been around for so long. It’s the all around best round.
Excellent comparison! The British L129A1 (16’ 308 LMT) wACOG 6x48 was one of the most successful combat DMR rifles in Afghanistan so much so that the British Royal Marines adopted a 6.8 variant paired with Mark 5HD for their new sniper support weapon L129A2. The 16 heavy barrel 308 is battle tested with success (L129A1and SR25) - especially with right round - as your results confirmed. The Brits actually shot a special 155gr bullet for accuracy.
That was a pretty impressive performance by the 308. I think I can say safely we expected the performance from the 6.5. Your vids are amazing man and I find myself watching them all the time. Keep it up bro.
Never let us down. Another banger! I know you lost your other space but this one is amazing. You won’t have any trouble spotting shots in that dusty dirt! Great shooting brother!
Fantastic video once again, Zak! It's great seeing the .308 work out passed 1000 yards, never doubted for a second! It's great to prove people wrong when they refer to the .308 as antiquated and inadequate for anything over 800 yards.
I've got a 20 inch .308 and 6.5 CM, good to know that's overkill for 1200 yards! I love your format for these videos, you're one of my favorite gun TH-camrs!
If you can find them in stock you need to give them a try… I’m really impressed with the performance improvement out of my 308 ARs. Just ran my last ones today through my new 14.5” upper, now I need to try to find some more haha
Not sure if anyone else saw this, but the first impact with the 308 at 1250 you can actually see the bullet come into frame and hit the target. Had to rewind and see if I actually saw what i thought I saw. That's pretty cool
This just reinforces the idea I need to reload for my 308. I have all the stuff but bullets and powder. I'd love a couple videos on you working up loads.
I can't believe how much I learn running my ballistics calculator with my info while you shoot. Excellent video. Can't go wrong with either. Barrel life for 6.5 CR was an after thought for me. ..308 was impressive. If I saw this video earlier I would have went the .308 route a couple years ago. Part of the fun. Would love to see a similar video on 7 PRC vs. 300 WM at even further distance.
Dude the 169 smk is a game changer… had no clue it made this noticeable of a performance improvement. I just ran the last of my 169smks through a new 14.5” upper today (video coming soon) so now I’m on the hunt for some more!
@@MountainsMulletsMerica Check out the 177SMK as well. It does the same thing to the 175 the 169 did to the 168. Pretty good in 308 but they are amazing in 30-06 or 300prc.
Agree with you absolutely. Corporate marketing strategies create artificial “needs” based demands but the laws of physics are immutable. The .308 was and has been, (terminally) effective since ~1950’s, why would that change? Animals haven’t gotten any bigger, wind hasn’t changed and the curvature of the earth is the same as it was 70 years ago, (I “think”).
Thanks again for a great video. I have a 308, think I’ll just get to know this rifle and be happy and not worry about what the other guys and guns are doing.
I love it! Glad to hear the content I’m putting out is in line with what you like watching! I’ve got a ton of new video ideas in the works. Stay tuned as I’ll have new content out as I get it all filmed.
Glad I subscribed awhile back, I rarely comment on videos but gotta say your videos are no non-sense and well thought out, from gear to thought processes. Also you seem like a super humble dude and don't have such arrogance that others seem to have. Keep it up! Ps I can't help but wonder what you do for work to have such a collection at your age (I'm 33 and people think I have a big collection, not even close to this)
Good on you for running the 169 smk. Not enough light being shone on this easy upgrade. Personally I’d be trying the 130 berger hybrid in the 6.5 That knights suppressor looks very well behaved on there.
The 169smk is an epic bullet…. Really provides a noticeable performance improvement in a 308. I’ve actually run some of the Berger 130 hybrids through that rifle… really wasn’t that happy with how they shot initially. One of these days I might circle back and do a more thorough load development with them though as I like the extra velocity out of the 130s.
@@MountainsMulletsMerica I shoot strait 130gr VLDs through my .260 Rem gasser built by GAP, which everyone told me wouldn’t feed or shoot reliably. Opposite turned out to be true. First time I shot it at 1000yds, I shot a sub-MOA group laying in the back of my truck bed in the wind. Super-flat and very accurate. Bartlein barrel, chamber set up for 139gr Scenars. It shoots everything really well. The only bullet I didn’t like in it was the 140gr A-MAX, which “only” shot .75” groups at 100yds. I don’t shoot it or the .308s anymore though. I shoot my 6.5 Grendels instead, and now have at least 8 of them. Lilja, Criterion, and LaRue barrels mostly, 1 Faxon that was part of the group buy we did, a 12”. That 12” reaches out way farther than I ever imagined it would.
I'm on my second 500-count box of the 169SMK's, I also have been very impressed with them. You should also try the new 177SMK's, (if you can find them) I have been very happy(and an even higher BC) with the performance of them also!!
First I’ve heard about the 177smk… what kind of overall length are you loading to? I’d need it to be able to fit in a mag so would need to be 2.81” at the most
Talk about crazy timing I was just gonna spend the weekend doing some reading about which set up I would like to run in my LMT for a DMR set up. I have both barrels 6.5 Creedmoor and 308 and trying to determine based on cost, which way I should go. I know the Creedmoor within a couple thousand rounds seem to have or what I have read the need to change barrels. 308 you get much longer life. But cost probably now going towards 308. Thank you for the video
I have the same..MWS with both calibers..16” 308 & 14.1” 6.5 i tried to convince myself 308 is cheaper/better/etc but damn if i don’t love my short 6.5….good thing is with the LMT you really don’t have to decide you can swap anytime!
Awesome video. Wish I had a place to reach out to those distances, am limited to 500 at my local club. That said, the 16” .308 did better than I expected. Have a 16” .308 barrel and 18” 6.5 for my PredatOBR. Hoping to play with both beyond 800 in the future. Keep up the great work!!
VIDEO IDEA (: If you ever get insanely bored; please consider doing a "best pistol red dot zero distance" video just like the 36 yard zero rifle videos but obviously applied to the particular zero distances you think apply well to 9mm handguns. Thanks a ton. Love the channel.
Awesome comparison video. I understand that there is a lot of love for the 6, and 6.5. I still have a deep love for the 308 and that will not diminish any. In my opinion you did an fantastic job in demonstrating the capabilities of both in a gas operated system. If you have not done one, I would like to see you do one on both these calibers in a bolt action, using the same setup to make it as close to a "head to head" comparison.
@@MountainsMulletsMerica It's built on a PSA PA-10 (their version of the AR-10) from a couple of years ago. Right now, I have a 4-16X scope on it. I've upgraded the BCG, the stock, and the pistol grip. The trigger is already high-end, two-stage, so I'm not messing with that. I have upgraded some of the receiver components to make it ambidextrous, since I'm right-handed and my wife is left-handed. I've got a bipod on there, but it's just a low-cost Magpul and I will be upgrading that. It works, but there's better available. I plan to put a 20" Proof Research barrel on it, because overboad is fun. That'll happen next year, I think. And I have one of the Huxwrx flow-through suppressor that I share back and forth between it and my custom 300 Blackout SBR. The 20" barrel + suppressor will be unwieldy in terms of weight and center-of-balance, so I might do two different uppers, one 16" and one 20". See which I like better after some use. But that's expensive and not very efficient, so I'm not sure about that plan. I liked how the Impact range finder worked in your video, so I'm thinking of adding one of those. But I'm not sure, because I can't have any electronics on it if I plan to hunt with it (state law where I live). Might QD that so it can go back and forth on that point. Or put it on the upper I don't end up hunting with if I go that route. I handload, so I'll definitely give the 169 gn SMK a go. I've got some Barnes lead-free in that same weight range, that I think will be great for hunting.
As usual, some of the best shooting content on the internet. Something I have found: I have better performance shooting lighter bullets with the 6.5mm large frame AR platform due to magazine constraints. I pretty much settled on Berger 130 grain Hybrids I use Magpul P mags which are limited to about 2.820" case overall length, my heavier 6.5 bullets didn't perform as well loaded that short, while the 130 Bergers and 136 Lapua Scenars did really well loaded shorter than this, it's also nice to get some velocity back. I'm getting 2,770 FPS with the Berger 130's
I like the wall, one thing I would like as an option would be to have screws the same shade color as the slats. Make it look more sleek and consistent and uniform.
Building my first AR-10 (still debating on which caliber) and until this video, I was heavily leaning towards 16" 6.5 CM. However, now I'm questioning myself haha. I'm still leaning towards the CM since I'm smaller and am more recoil sensitive, but I don't think I can count out the 308 in 16" (or 18") at all.
308 will help to teach you better recoil management and force you to be a little more accurate with your wind calls when pushing distance so can be beneficial over the 6.5 if you're looking to sharpen your skills in those areas.
I’d honestly go for the 6.5. I do enjoy my 308 but love my 6.5. 6.5 isn’t going anywhere and is filling up shelves everywhere. Not a lot of junk ammo either.
Have not shot yet but just finished a AR10 .308 chambering build with a 24” Shaw Custom barrel. Cannot wait to see what she will do. Don’t have the easy availability of a long distance range that you do.
Ha unfortunately that industry isn’t what it has been…. Wouldn’t suggest taking that jump right now haha. Appreciate you taking the time to watch and support the channel!
Great video and presentetion. Definitely my favourite channel for DMR videos with great technical insides. Just wondering why you rely on BC data from a chrono for drops. If you use Kestrel and load custom curves for specific bullets you are shooting in my experience you will have significantly better calculations. I would imagine Applied Ballistics with all their equipment can measure much more precise data than relatively affordable chrono.
You should do a video explaining your recoil management in prone. It looks like you are shooting 223 out of both rifles! TEACH US YOUR WAYS MASTER MULLET 🙏
Two years ago I decided to build a rifle for 300 - 600 yards egg shoot. I studied ballistics. It was a toss up between the 308 and 6.5. I chose 6.5. What I learned then and you are proving now is, the reason they are so arguable is because they are so close in performance. THEN.... it becomes a matter likened to "FORD VS CHEVY".... LOL
A request. Can you compare the 169 Sierra projectile to the 168 Nosler Custom Competition at some point? That's what I'm loading, and the projectiles look to be very similar in weight and profile.
Love your content as always. One thing I was thinking in terms of the gas guns 100 yard accuracy…. In my case I bought a cheap thing from Brownells called an Accu-wedge. It’s rubber and takes all of the play out of the upper and lower receivers. When I started putting those in my gas guns the groups tightened up instantly.
At what range do you typically shoot at a full size IPSC over a 2/3rd IPSC? In other words, what range do you find that a 2/3 IPSC gets challenging to hit with these type of DMR rifles?
Just found your channel. Been thinking of putting together a AR10 6.5 creedmoor, because it makes since to me already owning 6.5 creed and i don’t own any 308 stuff. I mean makes less loading for myself. Keep the different calibers to a minimum for the most part. I like seeing these videos and makes me happy that you still lean towards 6.5. I like 3OH’hate just have more 6.5 creed at my household. Although it wouldn’t be bad to have a 308 upper also.
To me big influenceing factors are available ammo/components on local store shelves and the shelves of my friends, and the terminal affects on live targets, but neither is a bad choice.
Another great video! In your opinion, at what point does SD start negatively impacting performance down range? What is considered to be a ‘good/excellent’ SD?
I was really excited to see the 308 using the 169 gr SMK. I have been trying to work up a load with that bullet and 4895 powder. Have not shot it over 500 yards yet but it seems to shoot well there. Running a Smith & Wesson M&P 10 with the 18” barrel.
Love your content and everything about this. I would love to see a load development video. The only thing that triggers me is 1.5 moa. My OCD would never allow that. My OCD drives me to punch a lot of holes in paper.
I’ve chased tiny groups long enough that I’m kind of burnt out on it… 1.5 moa 10 round groups are plenty accurate for the type of shooting I do with these rifles. I’d rather hammer steel at distance than spend time at the 100 yard line chasing small accuracy improvements….. also I’m sure I can even shoot a large frame ar better than 1.5 moa haha
When you start comparing the price and availability and versatility of 308 and 6.5, the 308 is still the winner. If you’re a dedicated ELR shooter, neither is the best option. But, as always, and has been previously mentioned, it’s the Indian, not the arrow. As always, a very informative and interesting video.
Alright so 6arc ar15, from what I understand, was designed to replace the 308 ar10. Have you already done that comparison? If not, would love to see that one.
.308, 175 SMK HPBT, it’s always been a reliable asskicker. That round works hard out of my bolt guns and semi autos, varying barrel lengths; work horse.
If you're looking to support my channel, swing by my campsite bio for a list of links to my partner companies. Purchases made with these companies will show them they've made a solid investment with me and allow me to continue creating exciting new content!
campsite.bio/mountainsmulletsmerica
I am VERY impressed that the 308 was able to hang with the 6.5 Creedmoor out to over 1,000 yards! I suspect the high hit percentages had more to do with the Indian than the Bow.
169gr SMK has BCs like a 107gr 6mm, so .527 G1. It’s relatively light for a .308 since 175gr has been king of LR with .308 for many years, after a century of 173gr FMJBT in the .30-06 and 7.62x51 Sniper systems. The 6.5mm 144gr Berger Hybrid has a very high BC of .655 G1, but you can’t get it going very fast from a 6.5CM. The problem with both of them is not being able to self-spot. This is why I do this same thing but with 6.5 Grendel, even with a 12” barrel. 123gr ELD-M, 123gr SMK, and 123gr Scenar do about 2350-2400fps from the 12” Grendel. Fort Scott 123gr TUI does about 2320fps, BC is .571. Grendel converts the powder more efficiently than any of the above cartridges, recoil is half of them or less, so your sight picture just stays on and it’s more like a game of watching your own round connect. Very satisfying compared to .308 and 6.5CM. If he was using one in this video, you would see the reticle barely move and the round connect.
You deserve every sponsor you get. You are an awesome presenter and this content is great!
Glad you enjoyed the video! It’s really exciting to have such great support from the community!
💯
Quickly becoming one of my favorite content creators, broseph!
SAME!
Facts!
Thanks for checking out the channel! I’m glad you’re enjoying the content… do me a solid and share my channel with your shooting buddies!
@@MountainsMulletsMerica Man where did that bag rider come from
@@hopewilliams6705that’s the grs aluminum bag rider from euro optic
As always, the answer is, and forever will be, own both. Wives come and go. Rifles are forever.
Best advice I've read in these comments!
😂
Amen 🙏
I get the joke, but you should keep your wives longer than your rifles if you know what you're doing.
That’s a sad statement.
These videos are crazy. Your rifle collection is insane. What is even more impressive is that you know how to shoot ALL of them.
Super underrated channel, best LR content creator by far.
Thank you, really appreciate the compliments! Tell you what, I’d rather be lucky than good but it’s taken me years to be able to shoot at this level. Really though once the fundamentals are mastered it’s pretty easy to shoot the various different rifles with decent success
This is by far the best comparison I've ever seen. Thank for putting this together.
Man that’s really cool to hear! Appreciate you taking the time to watch and support the channel!
I know LR shooters are all about the creed, however 308 is a outstanding cartridge.
Nah, it's an outdated cartridge that's only kept alive by fudds. It's only reason to exist is that bulk ammo is like 10c cheaper than 6.5 bulk.
@@bitscorpion4687 it is not a outdated cartridge it is the most popular caliber in the world for a reason when it comes to hunting because it does have more energy and more velocity than the 6.5 Creedmoor , if you shoot the 6.5 Creedmoor in what a 308 common grain weight is the 6.5 will not be shooting that fast at all and 308 has more momentum than a 6.5 creedmoor and if you shoot the 308 in the same grain weight that the 6.5 shoots it goes faster . But everybody has their own opinion what their favorite caliber is and that’s fine.
@@bitscorpion4687 troll
@@ChriEl-g4vdon’t waste your time. Hes a troll and probably gets all his info from the internet and none from experience.
Pretty narrow minded there fudd
Go 308! 💪
Booooooooooooooo!!!! Boooooooooooo!
308! 308! WHOOOOO
308 is Shtf champ
Man, getting sponsored by Sierra and Griffin is such a flex! I'm still waiting for their supressor to come back in stock so I can put it on my PSA poor man m110 clone. I'm very glad to see you're getting all these sponsored because you deserved it, from making comparison videos to you shooting long range, people can learn a lot from you.
Dreams/ goals for me. Still saving for my PSA M110 at home.
@@Justforfun-ek7et it’s worth it brother! I would get their m110a1, I feel like it’s better but I love the old aesthetical of mine with the a2 stock.
@@esTaleCSGO awesome, I will make it a reality one day!
I really appreciate the methodical and data focused objective approach!
Another point for 308 in my debate in which to go with. The fact that you can go with high end rounds for long range accuracy or grab some 147 ball and go to town at closer ranges. Not to mention it's been a NATO round since NATO was a thing so the availability is more than adequate and cheaper due to the scale of production and tons of f data. A chrome lined 16" 308 could fill a lot of roles, especially with proper ammo selection.
The detail you go into is very impressive and exactly what is needed to review long range setups where so many variables can effect things. Your channel is amazing and your hard work really shows man. Keep up the great videos!
Agree unequivocally and absolutely 👍
Your standard deviation improved the .308’s hit ratio at 1200. The modern bullets have helped extend the .308’s usefulness as well as the .223/5.56.
Refreshing to hear a review where I wasn't being steered into buying a 6.5. Love my 308. It's never let me down.
My custom DMR in .308 AR (18" Criton barrel) has no problem hitting out to 1200 yards. custom loads, 169 grain blem Hornday. My 6.5 creed is on a bolt gun Tikka T3X TAC A1 and I shoot 147 gr. Horn ELD. These run 1/4" Moa. at 100 yards. Thanks for the video!
18” in 308 is the way.
Always been a .308 fan! Love the content
You are the man 🎉 enjoying every video
My favorite shooting channel by far. Love the comparisons and informative content. Glad to see the 308 hang in there and certainly was surprised but about come to the conclusion a 16 or 18 in. 6.5 creedmoor would be nice to have also. Keep it coming. Thanks
That 308 was impressive and maybe my imagination, but it seemed to really be rocking that steel.
The G1 BC on that 169gr SMK is .527, so it should be .263 G7. I always love the sound of .308 hitting steel, but I don’t love losing my sight picture in the process where I can’t self-spot. The .224s and 6mms don’t hit the steel very hard at all, so they are anemic and quiet. The Goldilocks is 6.5 Grendel, because 6.5CM comes off TGT too in the scope to where it’s difficult to self-spot.
@@LRRPFco52I’m able to spot my hits with my 308 with a break at 300 very satisfying
@@ChanoLeyva-l8x It's easier with heavy guns shooting bipod/rear bag supported, but not from other positions like tripod, sitting, kneeling supported, etc. I do DM courses throughout the year and I focus on alternate positions because 75% of the course is field improvised positions. We shoot off tripods, trees, barricades, roofs, cars, windows, posts, cable spools, railroad ties, and 3-Day packs.
@@LRRPFco52 that’s awesome my rifle weights maybe 10 11 lbs so not crazy heavy, and yes this is from different positions as well, the break is that effective
@@ChanoLeyva-l8x Big problem with brakes shooting through loopholes is they send crap flying everywhere. Inside buildings, they will peel paint and shred construction materials, while kicking up dust and blowing out your and nearby dudes' ears. Suppressed is pretty much the way to go, so you get a bit of a push and some muzzle lift.
That 308 definitely hits harder.
With better projectiles such as the 169smk I find the 308 a more effective DMR, greater authority can’t be under appreciated.
Therefore the 6.5 has significantly less recoil while hitting almost as hard if not even harder at long range…
The Creed really needs a longer barrel to shine. Still, did better than I thought it would in a little 16”. .308 didn’t even feel the short barrel. Crushed it at 1250!
your comparison validates my choice in building a .308 AR as opposed to using the creed round. I'm shooting 1.5" groups @ 100yds as well. I'm looking fwd to stretching it out! nice vid, excellent presentation. thanks for all your work!
1.5" group with a 308 at 100 yards ....ummm thats terrible .....just sayin ....if you aren't making a clover you are lacking ...
Another narrow minded prick.
@@KevinMc7-s8o0:44 another prick
@@KevinMc7-s8o Post a video of your .308 gas gun shooting a "clover" with a 10 shot group at 100 yards. Show us.
10 rounds ..😅@@armorers_wrench
This is why youre such a good youtuber dude. You deserve so much credit for your work.
Other yputubers will tell you all this data and they never show any real application.
You're out in the range showing us.
You are a great creator, and Im glad to see you're getting more recognition for your work. Keep at it, big dog.
Awesome comparison! Your detailed descriptions and organized commentary say it all. Great job
What a great presentation. You produce just some damn good stuff! I feel like I learn something every video. Also, there is a reason the venerable 308 has been around for so long. It’s the all around best round.
I love this channel so much. The best long range shooting channel on the planet. The three camera angles of each position/shot is so fantastic.
Excellent comparison! The British L129A1 (16’ 308 LMT) wACOG 6x48 was one of the most successful combat DMR rifles in Afghanistan so much so that the British Royal Marines adopted a 6.8 variant paired with Mark 5HD for their new sniper support weapon L129A2. The 16 heavy barrel 308 is battle tested with success (L129A1and SR25) - especially with right round - as your results confirmed. The Brits actually shot a special 155gr bullet for accuracy.
I only saw them adopting 6.5 creedmoor
That was a pretty impressive performance by the 308. I think I can say safely we expected the performance from the 6.5.
Your vids are amazing man and I find myself watching them all the time. Keep it up bro.
Never let us down. Another banger! I know you lost your other space but this one is amazing. You won’t have any trouble spotting shots in that dusty dirt! Great shooting brother!
Have been a subscriber since your first appearance on Texas Plinking. Looking forward to DMR`s After Dark.
Keep up the good work.
I love my 308 but Data is there thank you for all that information
Fantastic video once again, Zak! It's great seeing the .308 work out passed 1000 yards, never doubted for a second! It's great to prove people wrong when they refer to the .308 as antiquated and inadequate for anything over 800 yards.
I've got a 20 inch .308 and 6.5 CM, good to know that's overkill for 1200 yards! I love your format for these videos, you're one of my favorite gun TH-camrs!
Oh man a 20” barrel will just improve on the performance shown here! With the rifle bullet I’m betting you’re SuperSonic to 1500 yds or so
@@MountainsMulletsMerica Good to know! Now I just need to find a range to shoot that distance! My local only goes to 600 yards.
Wow. Excellent video. Both cartidges are impressive. Well done, man!
Solid content as usual. Thanks for providing such useful data without the fluff. I hope your sponsors start lining up- you're certainly earning it!
These rifles dude 🤤
I did not know sierra had a high BC 169gr SMK in .308. That's really cool! Awesome video! Thanks!
If you can find them in stock you need to give them a try… I’m really impressed with the performance improvement out of my 308 ARs. Just ran my last ones today through my new 14.5” upper, now I need to try to find some more haha
@@MountainsMulletsMerica Just ordered a box from Natchez. Not cheap for sure....but what the heck!
Not sure if anyone else saw this, but the first impact with the 308 at 1250 you can actually see the bullet come into frame and hit the target. Had to rewind and see if I actually saw what i thought I saw. That's pretty cool
Most underrated channel
This just reinforces the idea I need to reload for my 308. I have all the stuff but bullets and powder. I'd love a couple videos on you working up loads.
I can't believe how much I learn running my ballistics calculator with my info while you shoot. Excellent video. Can't go wrong with either. Barrel life for 6.5 CR was an after thought for me. ..308 was impressive. If I saw this video earlier I would have went the .308 route a couple years ago. Part of the fun. Would love to see a similar video on 7 PRC vs. 300 WM at even further distance.
the 169SMK has been my secret sauce for 308 for a while now. Glad to see it work well for you.
Dude the 169 smk is a game changer… had no clue it made this noticeable of a performance improvement. I just ran the last of my 169smks through a new 14.5” upper today (video coming soon) so now I’m on the hunt for some more!
@@MountainsMulletsMerica Check out the 177SMK as well. It does the same thing to the 175 the 169 did to the 168. Pretty good in 308 but they are amazing in 30-06 or 300prc.
308 still brings it.
My thoughts exactly… running these rigs side by side really showed me that. Drop a high bc, modern bullet into 308 and it’s a game changer!
Agree with you absolutely. Corporate marketing strategies create artificial “needs” based demands but the laws of physics are immutable. The .308 was and has been, (terminally) effective since ~1950’s, why would that change? Animals haven’t gotten any bigger, wind hasn’t changed and the curvature of the earth is the same as it was 70 years ago, (I “think”).
Thanks again for a great video. I have a 308, think I’ll just get to know this rifle and be happy and not worry about what the other guys and guns are doing.
I do not know how you do it, BUT YOURE LIVING IN MY HEAD WITH THESE VIDEO IDEAS!!!!
I love it! Glad to hear the content I’m putting out is in line with what you like watching! I’ve got a ton of new video ideas in the works. Stay tuned as I’ll have new content out as I get it all filmed.
Very impressive for the shorty 308!
Great video! Subscribed. You’re a natural at this!
Great video as usual. Thanks for the tips on that SMK .308 and some of the other sponsored products used here. Hard to argue with the results.
This is becoming my go to channel for long range content. Could you do a video between single & double stage triggers please? Thanks man!
Glad I subscribed awhile back, I rarely comment on videos but gotta say your videos are no non-sense and well thought out, from gear to thought processes. Also you seem like a super humble dude and don't have such arrogance that others seem to have. Keep it up! Ps I can't help but wonder what you do for work to have such a collection at your age (I'm 33 and people think I have a big collection, not even close to this)
Fantastic video. Looking forward to the after dark.
Thanks, the night shooting portion was a lot of fun. Hopefully you'll enjoy it! Launching tomorrow morning so stay tuned!
Love your content, man. Very informative and entertaining!
Appreciate the support! I’m always working on new content so stay tuned.
Good on you for running the 169 smk. Not enough light being shone on this easy upgrade. Personally I’d be trying the 130 berger hybrid in the 6.5
That knights suppressor looks very well behaved on there.
The 169smk is an epic bullet…. Really provides a noticeable performance improvement in a 308.
I’ve actually run some of the Berger 130 hybrids through that rifle… really wasn’t that happy with how they shot initially. One of these days I might circle back and do a more thorough load development with them though as I like the extra velocity out of the 130s.
@@MountainsMulletsMerica I shoot strait 130gr VLDs through my .260 Rem gasser built by GAP, which everyone told me wouldn’t feed or shoot reliably. Opposite turned out to be true. First time I shot it at 1000yds, I shot a sub-MOA group laying in the back of my truck bed in the wind. Super-flat and very accurate. Bartlein barrel, chamber set up for 139gr Scenars. It shoots everything really well. The only bullet I didn’t like in it was the 140gr A-MAX, which “only” shot .75” groups at 100yds. I don’t shoot it or the .308s anymore though. I shoot my 6.5 Grendels instead, and now have at least 8 of them. Lilja, Criterion, and LaRue barrels mostly, 1 Faxon that was part of the group buy we did, a 12”. That 12” reaches out way farther than I ever imagined it would.
I'm on my second 500-count box of the 169SMK's, I also have been very impressed with them. You should also try the new 177SMK's, (if you can find them) I have been very happy(and an even higher BC) with the performance of them also!!
Only caveat is allegedly the 169 was developed to operate in a SR-25 mag. 177 gets a little long. Just fyi
@@K-bob_45 I shoot bolts guns.🙂👍
First I’ve heard about the 177smk… what kind of overall length are you loading to? I’d need it to be able to fit in a mag so would need to be 2.81” at the most
Talk about crazy timing I was just gonna spend the weekend doing some reading about which set up I would like to run in my LMT for a DMR set up. I have both barrels 6.5 Creedmoor and 308 and trying to determine based on cost, which way I should go. I know the Creedmoor within a couple thousand rounds seem to have or what I have read the need to change barrels. 308 you get much longer life. But cost probably now going towards 308. Thank you for the video
I have the same..MWS with both calibers..16” 308 & 14.1” 6.5 i tried to convince myself 308 is cheaper/better/etc but damn if i don’t love my short 6.5….good thing is with the LMT you really don’t have to decide you can swap anytime!
Man i wish i had the space like this to shoot like you do. love these videos
Awesome video. Wish I had a place to reach out to those distances, am limited to 500 at my local club. That said, the 16” .308 did better than I expected. Have a 16” .308 barrel and 18” 6.5 for my PredatOBR. Hoping to play with both beyond 800 in the future. Keep up the great work!!
That is an awesome shooting display. You are an expert shooter.
Everyone’s been waiting for this matchup!
That’s a lot of pressure, I hope the video lives up to the hype haha
Cant wait on your testing of 22arc vs 224 Valkyrie or 6mmarc🎉
Great video. This is a good demonstration of what this kind of setup can do. With that said, my all time favorite setup is the 20 inch 308.
You make the smoothest videos out there 👍 awesome job
Thank you! I have some more content coming soon, hope you'll check it out!
VIDEO IDEA (:
If you ever get insanely bored; please consider doing a "best pistol red dot zero distance" video just like the 36 yard zero rifle videos but obviously applied to the particular zero distances you think apply well to 9mm handguns. Thanks a ton. Love the channel.
.308! My caliber since 1986. DMR. Subscribed.
Awesome comparison video. I understand that there is a lot of love for the 6, and 6.5. I still have a deep love for the 308 and that will not diminish any. In my opinion you did an fantastic job in demonstrating the capabilities of both in a gas operated system. If you have not done one, I would like to see you do one on both these calibers in a bolt action, using the same setup to make it as close to a "head to head" comparison.
You should be creeping up on a million subscribers in my opinion. Tell everybody to tell some friends and you're there
Very nice results. I'm in the middle of a 308 DMR build, and this is very promising.
You won't be disappointed with a 16" 308! I’d say do yourself a solid and buy some 169smks to try… really a game changer from what I’m seeing
@@MountainsMulletsMerica It's built on a PSA PA-10 (their version of the AR-10) from a couple of years ago.
Right now, I have a 4-16X scope on it.
I've upgraded the BCG, the stock, and the pistol grip. The trigger is already high-end, two-stage, so I'm not messing with that. I have upgraded some of the receiver components to make it ambidextrous, since I'm right-handed and my wife is left-handed.
I've got a bipod on there, but it's just a low-cost Magpul and I will be upgrading that. It works, but there's better available.
I plan to put a 20" Proof Research barrel on it, because overboad is fun. That'll happen next year, I think.
And I have one of the Huxwrx flow-through suppressor that I share back and forth between it and my custom 300 Blackout SBR.
The 20" barrel + suppressor will be unwieldy in terms of weight and center-of-balance, so I might do two different uppers, one 16" and one 20". See which I like better after some use. But that's expensive and not very efficient, so I'm not sure about that plan.
I liked how the Impact range finder worked in your video, so I'm thinking of adding one of those. But I'm not sure, because I can't have any electronics on it if I plan to hunt with it (state law where I live). Might QD that so it can go back and forth on that point. Or put it on the upper I don't end up hunting with if I go that route.
I handload, so I'll definitely give the 169 gn SMK a go. I've got some Barnes lead-free in that same weight range, that I think will be great for hunting.
As usual, some of the best shooting content on the internet.
Something I have found: I have better performance shooting lighter bullets with the 6.5mm large frame AR platform due to magazine constraints. I pretty much settled on Berger 130 grain Hybrids
I use Magpul P mags which are limited to about 2.820" case overall length, my heavier 6.5 bullets didn't perform as well loaded that short, while the 130 Bergers and 136 Lapua Scenars did really well loaded shorter than this, it's also nice to get some velocity back. I'm getting 2,770 FPS with the Berger 130's
Best rifle videos on the internet! :)
Appreciate that, glad you enjoyed the video!
Great video man, no BS just shooting and facts
Yep my goal is always to let the data do the talking! Glad to hear you enjoy my style!
I like the wall, one thing I would like as an option would be to have screws the same shade color as the slats. Make it look more sleek and consistent and uniform.
Building my first AR-10 (still debating on which caliber) and until this video, I was heavily leaning towards 16" 6.5 CM. However, now I'm questioning myself haha. I'm still leaning towards the CM since I'm smaller and am more recoil sensitive, but I don't think I can count out the 308 in 16" (or 18") at all.
308 will help to teach you better recoil management and force you to be a little more accurate with your wind calls when pushing distance so can be beneficial over the 6.5 if you're looking to sharpen your skills in those areas.
I’d honestly go for the 6.5. I do enjoy my 308 but love my 6.5. 6.5 isn’t going anywhere and is filling up shelves everywhere. Not a lot of junk ammo either.
Have not shot yet but just finished a AR10 .308 chambering build with a 24” Shaw Custom barrel. Cannot wait to see what she will do. Don’t have the easy availability of a long distance range that you do.
Pretty much killed the debate on 308 being outdated.
Nice video man! Might have to try some of the 169 SMK's. I currently like the 155 TMK's out of my 20" barrel gas gun.
I need to get into ag sales. I'm always green with envy here. That's a nice looking room!
Ha unfortunately that industry isn’t what it has been…. Wouldn’t suggest taking that jump right now haha. Appreciate you taking the time to watch and support the channel!
awesome wall in awesome room! 308w old good warrior. bullets 175 and 190 gn is awesome!
Very impressive 308 performance. Surprised indeed.
Great video and presentetion. Definitely my favourite channel for DMR videos with great technical insides.
Just wondering why you rely on BC data from a chrono for drops. If you use Kestrel and load custom curves for specific bullets you are shooting in my experience you will have significantly better calculations. I would imagine Applied Ballistics with all their equipment can measure much more precise data than relatively affordable chrono.
Винтовки мечта!😍😍😍👍👍👍
You should do a video explaining your recoil management in prone. It looks like you are shooting 223 out of both rifles! TEACH US YOUR WAYS MASTER MULLET 🙏
My 308 load is the 168 gr. Accubond LR and it's got an even better BC. Love seeing it.
Two years ago I decided to build a rifle for 300 - 600 yards egg shoot. I studied ballistics. It was a toss up between the 308 and 6.5. I chose 6.5. What I learned then and you are proving now is, the reason they are so arguable is because they are so close in performance. THEN.... it becomes a matter likened to "FORD VS CHEVY".... LOL
A request. Can you compare the 169 Sierra projectile to the 168 Nosler Custom Competition at some point? That's what I'm loading, and the projectiles look to be very similar in weight and profile.
Love your content as always. One thing I was thinking in terms of the gas guns 100 yard accuracy…. In my case I bought a cheap thing from Brownells called an Accu-wedge. It’s rubber and takes all of the play out of the upper and lower receivers. When I started putting those in my gas guns the groups tightened up instantly.
Oh man all of my ARs run accu wedges…. My opinion they are a must to tighten up groups
Awesome review!
At what range do you typically shoot at a full size IPSC over a 2/3rd IPSC? In other words, what range do you find that a 2/3 IPSC gets challenging to hit with these type of DMR rifles?
Just found your channel. Been thinking of putting together a AR10 6.5 creedmoor, because it makes since to me already owning 6.5 creed and i don’t own any 308 stuff. I mean makes less loading for myself. Keep the different calibers to a minimum for the most part. I like seeing these videos and makes me happy that you still lean towards 6.5. I like 3OH’hate just have more 6.5 creed at my household. Although it wouldn’t be bad to have a 308 upper also.
To me big influenceing factors are available ammo/components on local store shelves and the shelves of my friends, and the terminal affects on live targets, but neither is a bad choice.
It really did seem like the 308 was slapping just a little more. Could be my imagination. Good video.
Another great video! In your opinion, at what point does SD start negatively impacting performance down range? What is considered to be a ‘good/excellent’ SD?
I was really excited to see the 308 using the 169 gr SMK. I have been trying to work up a load with that bullet and 4895 powder. Have not shot it over 500 yards yet but it seems to shoot well there. Running a Smith & Wesson M&P 10 with the 18” barrel.
Nice work man. Ive got a Sig 716 id like to shoot at distance but there’s not a range that goes beyond 100yds
I'm curious about how those 169gr smks will do in a 6" 300blk 🤔.
Love your content and everything about this. I would love to see a load development video. The only thing that triggers me is 1.5 moa. My OCD would never allow that. My OCD drives me to punch a lot of holes in paper.
I’ve chased tiny groups long enough that I’m kind of burnt out on it… 1.5 moa 10 round groups are plenty accurate for the type of shooting I do with these rifles. I’d rather hammer steel at distance than spend time at the 100 yard line chasing small accuracy improvements….. also I’m sure I can even shoot a large frame ar better than 1.5 moa haha
When you start comparing the price and availability and versatility of 308 and 6.5, the 308 is still the winner.
If you’re a dedicated ELR shooter, neither is the best option.
But, as always, and has been previously mentioned, it’s the Indian, not the arrow.
As always, a very informative and interesting video.
Brilliant as usual!
Alright so 6arc ar15, from what I understand, was designed to replace the 308 ar10. Have you already done that comparison? If not, would love to see that one.
.308, 175 SMK HPBT, it’s always been a reliable asskicker. That round works hard out of my bolt guns and semi autos, varying barrel lengths; work horse.