His Stun should be changed to a Root. A slow is pretty useless for Thoth, a Stun is too strong. A Root serves the same purpose, you root them in place and hit them but it's not as safe.
I'd be alright with this. I liked the slow (it was potent enough to let him walk away) but a stun is unnecessary. tbh I just want the scaling back on his ult though I hate suddenly only doing 95% of someone's health and having my last hit stolen
You obviously never played against a Loki or ...Name a guy who can CC immune slows to get you ao KuanG teleports Change' dances, susano same Anhur , Arachne, aulix, xbalanque the list goes on W/ just how many Characters can dust a slow off like a corn flake and munch your Butt for even trying to slow them down...there are a few folks who prob still use winged blade too so.......& A root would be ok maybe but if folks can use there Ult or beads out then same issue as slow... basically pointless. might as well just stand there and wait to get hacked to death by #Name a God...SMH
itsme7221 I didn't think the 3 was too op honestly the stun was nice but that was the only change that affected my play style with her I still use her and do pretty well with her
Alex Ogilvie She lost fatalis effect on her 3, so she cant be early game bully anymore. And she can still be decent if played right, only thing is there are much better picks now.
Cerburus Arent you a smartass.. The whole point of my comment is that there is not a lot to talk abou on that case to make a video without repating same stuff in different ways...
My idea to fix him would be to make Glyph of Pain disappear whenever you go through it but make it to when he does, for the next few seconds it turns Evade and Punish into a stun from its normal slow. This would make him have to make a more clear decision if he wants the damage from Glyph or if he wants the stun.
I liked him more before Season 4. The stun wasn't needed, and I still feel the damage nerf on his ult. HiRez's intention giving him a stun was to make lower-level players perform better on him. Thoth was supposed to be a hard god, and his stats reflected that- the only people who were doing really well were people that were _really really good_ on him. I don't understand why they had to make him more like a "normal" mage in order to make worse players do better on him. Now that people have recognized how strong he is, they're going to start nerfing the things he did well to begin with, and he'll be more boring to play. ALSO: I want to see the SPL win rates for when Thoth was allowed to be picked. Yes, he was banned a lot, but outside of St3alth I can't recall ever seeing Thoth performing as a "first ban every game" god.
It wasn't hard to play Thoth to begin with. play like a bitch and spam your 1 and ult, bam you win. only things that beat them in terms of easiness are Rama, Artemis, Bakasura and Kali.
thetimmon Bakasura has one of the highest learning curve... I wouldn't say it's easy to play with him, I would change Rama for Apollo, because Apollo it's easy af to play...
+Edgar M. Zetina Aguilar ult/butcher blades and hold left mouse/RT takes a while to learn? huh, who knew. may as well add Apollo to the list, pretty much all of them are >insert abilities< then hold left mouse/RT, he's one of them. Rather have Ullr as the easiest thing to play in the game with everything else being harder than him, actually make it so you can actually fight an overleveled enemy and have a chance to come out on top for just being better than them.
You're 100% correct, at his outset Thoth's good damage and range was countered by the fact that you had to have good map awareness and positioning, which is why he had a low win rate as both of those things are something people at lower levels of play tend to ignore. I'm convinced that, had he not received those buffs, he would of probably been used in the SPL as intended, a late-game focused mage with strong objective secure and tower siege, which would of probably increased his win ratio as a result of people seeing how he is meant to be played..
I disagree. Thoth early game was and still is really poor. Low damage, high cooldown in the escape. He still doesn't have CC immunity, so if he gets shut down by a better early game mage or a jungler, with his previous kit, he would have a slight to none recovery potential. His role was just damage. This is way too counterable, just Aegis it or build some defences. When he was released, playing him was REALLY boring. Just staying under tower or behind the frontliners, just throwing his 1 trough his 3. Using evade and punish offensively was a guaranteed death. Where is the fun in that? He still is a very unique, positioning dependent, mage with a unique kit and the best Laugh of the game: KARKAKRA KA KAKA KA KAK AND THIS: SCYLLA HAS: - A long range, multiple hiting, hard damaging cripple-root; - A huge AoE, high burst, slowing hability; - A long range, fast escape, that works as a ward; - A huge AoE, high burst, resetable, CC imune granting, ultimate, that also gives 70% movement speed. - And finally, a passive that enhances all the abilities and gives her 80 magical power. And everybody is chill with that. BUT THOTH HAS A STUN OMG TOO OP HI-REZ IS MAD PLZ NERF.
AceOf Spades Just like Scylla in late game. She can two-shot any squishy. the sic'em crush combo is a death sentence to any hunter/mage/assassin if the squishy don't use beads or aegis. Thoth can miss his glyphs after the stun, that is short in comparison with the 1.75s root-cripple of Sic'em. Plus, if she has polynomicon, a AA after the root will deal about 500 to 600 dmg. So, yeah. Thoth is in a good position. He's no longer a late game ult bot. His gameplay is more fluid and versatile than it ever was
Remember, it's completely intentional for Thoth to be a late god. In the comparison of Scylla vs Thoth, Scylla has _much_ higher cooldowns than Thoth. He can get off two ability rotations in the time it takes her to do one. That's the tradeoff for her stronger CC and easier to hit abilities.
I feel like Evade and Punish should be reverted to what it was in terms of its CC effect. The cooldown on Evade and Punish should be raised, not to what it was, but to a point where it isn't up so often. His Hieroglyphic Assault needs something so he isn't just a walking ult late game, maybe make it root an enemy if you hit them with all three hits. I feel like it needs something, or Glyph of Pain needs something.
I liked the S3 buffs (width and cooldown) a lot, since they just made him capable of using his 2 offensively as opposed to _never_. But the stun absolutely wasn't necessary. Hieroglyphic Assault does considerable damage even late, especially if you're able to throw it on cooldown in fights, but I do agree that Glyph of Pain needs something. Right now it's just used to amplify Thoth's attacks or help knock down towers; I'd like to see something that made it more useful to your teammates in a teamfight.
IT does it extends the range of your allies basics as well but since this would really only apply to other mages and hunters. It isn't seen often enough to be basic player knowledge. I also don't know if affects ally abilities also. Test it to confirm.
+Malik Moffet It doesn't.If you remove the S3 buffs entirely (e.g the cooldown on his 2) then you just put the god in trash tier again.As far as a root on his 1 goes, whilst it makes more sense than putting a stun on his 2 (which doesn't help himself at all), you would only cause the same situation we're in right now, given how big the AOE on his 1 is (Duke kinda understated it).
It does not extend ally basic attack range, or boost ally ability damage. It only boosts damage of basic attacks. If it increased ally basic attack range, you'd have Thoth in duo every two minutes to allow the hunter to safely poke the tower from out of its range.
what i would do to balance thoth is to replace the stun on his 2 with his initial slow and make it so that if he hits a target with the 3 glyphs of pain, the 3rd shot will stun
10:29 I think Thoth needs a nerf to his stun(completely remove it even) and a damage nerf. Other mages or hunters can hardly touch the character or they will die trying.
Interesting video Duke. Any plans to do a similar video for Terra? Just figured since you kind of ranted a little about her latest change from your last patch note video.
I suggested this because in that video he said how Terra was losing her identity from being a low damage, high utility guardian to just another generic guardian.
He didn't need the stun by any means but Thoth players who think the stun isn't good are crazy. Also the group stun could be a secondary initiate in a teamfight. The dash did need it's cooldown reduced to some extent along with the mana cost reduction on his 3 as he relied on at least that and his 1 for clear.
Crazy idea to adjust: If thoth uses the glyph to buff his dash range, the cooldown becomes longer than base by insert number. Also adjust the cooldown base number to be somewhere like 14 all ranks so it's enforced.
Also, to the ones there are saying "he stun is fine, the problem is the damage", if Evade and punish became just a dash with a stun, Thoth would be severely nerfed into oblivion. He's 1 + 3 combo, in late game against a squishy, deals about 900 to 1100 dmg, if he lands the three shots. Now lets see other mages, in the same conditions Scylla: 1+2 combo deals about 1400 to 1700 Janus: 1+2 combo deals 1500 to 1800 Poseidon 3+4+1+2= dead squishy with less than 2200 health. most mages can 100 to 0 a squishy with one ability rotation (some with the ult, some without the ult) . if Thoth wasn't able to deal damage with evade and punish, he would be crap.
except, thoth have a much safer range, when checking out, his 1 + 2 + 3 combo if he hit everything will basically do 1800 - 1900 damage which is more than enough to kill a mage, and if they dont die, just a single basic attack is needed, this was also from a build that doesnt go 100% into power but instead sacrifice a small bit of power for CDR!
so going for a build with 826 magical power (no buffs, just pure magical power from items) His 1 alone will deal 966 damage! His 2 alone will deal 726 damage! His 1 + 2 combo without his glyph will do: 1692 damage! His 3 will give 137.63 bonus magical damage on abilities that go through! Now lets go through his 1 + 3 combo: 1378,89 damage! Now we do his 2 + 3 combo: 863,63 damage! Lets combine the damage from all 3 sources now: 2242,52 damage! Now i dont know about you, but that is alot of damage for a mage with such long range! But wait, we havent even talked about ult yet! His ult alone does 1632 damage! With his 3 it doesnt do that much increased overall damage, but instead it gets on 1770 damage at max charge! How much damage would he do if he were to pop his entire kit into one person? Now thats 4012,52 damage into one person! ofcourse the numbers will become less the more protections the enemy has The build was tested out with: Shoes of magi, Doom Orb, Warlock Sash, Book of Thoth, Obsidian Shard, Rof of Tahuti (Everything fully stacked and lvl 20!)
this is my last little comment on this for now, i have just been checking out scylla with the exact same build, she is up on 933 magical power, yet her ult actually does less damage than Thoth ult, his would do 1770 with his glyph of pain combined, while Scylla ult does 1744! Scyllas Crush does 1099 damage! Sic' Em does 867 damage! Combined they do 1966 damage! While Scyllas Sic Em and Crush do more together than Thoth with his 1 + 2, he does a quite significant higher number of damage with his 1 + 2 + 3! Also remember how Scylla cant do damage with her 3, while thoth will do damage with all 3! Now we can already guess that Thoth will actually outdamage Scylla when you combine all of the abilities together on one person! Thoth = 4012,52 damage! Scylla = 3710 damage! Remember this: Thoth had 826 magical power from the build, meanwhile Scylla had 933 magical power (with the help from her passive)
crysisman, that build is horrible in practice. Remember it suggests _triple stacking_. Calculate the numbers on a more normal build; it'll probably look less ridiculous.
I think his evade and punish ability was good as a dodge and delay tool in its original iteration, I think as it stands now its being used as too much of an aggressive catch tool versus a save my ass tool which isn't a bad thing in its self but it hurts the character's initial vision which was as an artillery mage. To balance it out I think they should make his 2 not stun but have a decaying slow and maybe like a 2 second cripple so it still has some catch potential but at the same time isn't going to be used exclusively for that and it may see more use as it was originally intended that is more of a peel tool. That or they could make it so that his 2 projectile has properties similar to an Isis Spirit Ball in that it gains effects the further it travels, with a point blank hit being a slow and a cripple, a medium range hit being say a snare or just a steeper slow and a max range through the 3 hit being a stun, this would reward skillful Thoths while reducing the "dash in to their face for the surefire stun" play style that hurt his original identity. The other thing that may help Thoth is making his 3 store charges so he can control his artillery zone better.
I don't like the stun either but what I really hope is they get rid of the option to cancel the ultimate. If you start charging up and make that god awful noise you shouldn't be able to cancel it. I've used sanctuary for nothing thinking I was going to get ulted and Thoth cancels it at the last second.
Wait, did they remove the mana consumption upon beginning the charge? Huh, never noticed given the mana reduction on his 3 making his consumption actually decent.
the only thing i hate about thoth stun is the amount of damage it does, i'm in no way defending him having the stun, but if they made it to little to no damage by reducing scaling, or nerfing the rest of his kit significantly.
How about removing the stun, increasing the damage from the 3's enhanced AAs, buffing the 1 and 3's range, but giving all of his skills a minimum range?
NaionProductions yeah lol I was thinking the same thing. Honestly when I miss that abilities which is pretty rare tbh I get mad at myself because it's so easy to land
The stun could be changed to a slow + silence/cripple A slow alone isn't really usefull, since most characters got a movement ability, which pretty much cancels out slows < 2 seconds. A longer pure slow on the other hand would be too strong agressivly and not too usefull defensively.
Ok I'm gonna say my thought in the stun. When I played Thoth before he got the stun I noticed I was losing to mages that had cc for the fact that they could deal similar damage. So comparing him to other mages he was weak but that seems like a common thing when comparing gods who do and don't have cc especially when the damage difference is minimal between them.
Thoth's stun makes it easier for me to gank enemies when they're at low health when my ult is down. The slow allowed them to escape easier via blinks, dashing, and jumping, and so I couldn't kill them as easily. I need that stun. Only on one god, sure, I totally agree that that needed to be changed, but just keep the stun. Source: I'm a Diamond Thoth and main mid in comp.
First thing i have to say is that i really like the stun although i understand that it is somewhat op. Until it was removed i used the multistun very often, especially in 3v3 (joust i think?) and it made him much more viable in arena (people are more often in line). My recommendation how to nerv him would be to connect the stun to the 3 so that you have to aim through his wall to apply it.
Only reason I had been playing Thoth was because the fact that I could one shoot ppl with his ult. Now it's noticeably weaker. Stun is good, but it makes him being more like Isis. I would rather have that scaling back than that stun..
Agreed. His 1/2 damage have amazing poke potential too once you get the hang of hitting them. I'll never forget one-shotting a full health Sylvanus with the ult, from the jungle. I can't do that anymore and it makes me sad.
I'd like to point out that no mage in the game will ever "box" barring Sol, Chronos, and Freya. Boxing is for hunters. Bursting people down is what mages do. Saying that "actually good players" would rather box is laughable. Maybe if you're one of those "adc or feed" people, sure. Outside his ult, Thoth's kit isn't even as strong as other gods (such as Scylla) for that burst. He's better at poking people out, which stops working the instant they have a healer. The argument with his ult's damage isn't that we want the damage back, necessarily (I'm fine with how hard it hits late, even if I'm a _little_ upset that it now only brings people to 5% hp and someone else grabs the last hit), it's that we'd rather have the ridiculous damage than the stun on his 2. Removing his stun would justify having a harder-hitting ult. It's not like anyone in the game aside from tanks are effected by it, since any squishier class still gets one-shot.
Remember that South Park episode where they had manatee's making decisions? (I think it was the family guy parody) Well this is what smite feels like. When they brought up the new designers everything just slowly started falling apart. The guy that thought of Ravana, he looks like a guy from a previous interview that worked on the programming department(I could be wrong. Maybe they're two different individuals). But if it is the same guy... you can't just move a programmer to designs cause that just doesn't work at all. Anyways, just me ranting. I could be wrong. But I've played this game since it started on closed beta, seen it go from mages being able to pick phys items to the focus attribute to what it is now and I'm sad to say that I might quit playing cause they just can't seem to make up their minds. A good example is the relic issue. Going from buying a full tier 3 to buying 3 separate tiers to going back to a full tier 3 for free to going back to buying a separate tier.
Thoth needs numerous nerfs. His ultimate can one shot people just as much as any other mage but it has many times bigger range. He's another one of those "Utility mages" just like Raijin now, that joke is becoming way too real.
Ok, how about this. You bring back the slow make it 3 sec and passes trough all targets, but when you throw it trough his 3 you stun the first enemy hit and slow others. That gives him some sort of CC but it will be harder to apply because you need the wall to stun
DukeSloth I don't agree with Thoth being lost with his stun I actually think the opposite, I found it very much needed. There are multiple ways to counter both the slow and stun. But the way they can easily nerf him is to take the evade away from the glyph so the glyph can only affect projectiles and reducing the damage the punish does. Also nerfing the glyph by increasing the mana cost and giving cooldown scaling about 9/8/7/6/5 to 13/11/9/7/5 would be perfect. When Thoth first came out I hated him and never wanted to play him, now he is a viable option for the mage category. Those changes would make him more playable to please everyone.
imo to make thoth smth interesting, devs need to revamp him (change passive/overhaul his range mechanics/add some skill requirements to play the god), otherwise it's a handicap version of Agni that deals more dmg and can clear waves under his tower be4 the minions even meet eachother in lane ~
I'd like to think that I am an avid Thoth player with 2,5k worshippers in him. I agree completely that he shouldn't have the stun, revert it back to a slow and allow it to travel through all enemies. (and put the ult cooldown back down by 5-10 sec) Keep him otherwise as he is since its fine like that, the stun is completely uncalled for, but knowing hi-rez, he's going to become the next Chiron and get nerfed into the ground and then literally unplayed until he gets a minor buff which will take about 6 months to facilitate. Everything else about him is justifyable, increased projectile speed, evade and punish cooldown reduction, ult damage reduction (hurts a bit that it got lowered, but its fine.). However i'm not really on the train that the ult should have a 15s extra cooldown.
That's pretty normal for Hi-rez. Have a quite interesting design-idea, but when there is a minior problem with this not fitting in meta or performing not well it got more or less reworked to one of the most boring characters regarding innovation. Look at NuWa or Nox for the most obvious examples.
Uh what. NuWa and Nox are some of the more unique kits. Exploding your AI minions, a local invisibility field, and for nox the whole interaction of trapping enemies in her 2 with her 1, and going inside friendlies. You might not like them, but they're unique (and fun to me). The only boring part about them are their ults.
sibiris You're right but I didn't mentioned Arachne because people may say her old kit wasn't that interesting. She got picked mostly because of her hook and her jungle skill.
DryT3c Their old designs were way more innovative. Nox's 2 and 1 are just a good combination like thoth wall and projectiles (don't know the numbers). And the thing about NuWa is her passive and her ult. The passive is completely out of kit in my opinion and the minions + 3 is just another two-ability-combination. Don't misunderstand me. I like both characters. I play Nox myself sometimes and have NuWa on lvl 10 (though mainly the old one ^^) but I think their old kits had way more innovations and were way more fun to play for me.
Personally, I really like Thoth. He's a good Mage and he does feel different to me because of his 3, but I think he does need the stun at the moment because he's just not strong enough to hold people off without it.
He's perfectly fine the way he is. It doesn't take much to easily kill him. Example: Thanatos, Thor, Rat, Ao Kuang, any guardian building defense. He has no way to break CC without beads. He's just like any other mage, he needs to worry about positioning etc. His ult can even be interrupted and takes time to get to full strength. I don't understand what he was trying to get at, making it sound like he is this big problem. Look at all the gods banned in previous seasons, he seems strong now, but that always changes with time. This wasn't even a problem until they gave him a stun, then people started losing their shit.
theaveragelevi He was already very strong before his stun, it was an unneeded change that gave him easier lane phase with more early kill potential and the like
"In 2017. Video shows thoth do 180+ dmg with a single Q hit (to miniom) Up to 3 times. Its 2020, With the similar magic power, it does around ~100. 110 through glyph, damage. Let alone doing 200 to a god, you can't even clear ranged minions with 3 shots now. Its ridiculus
why not just rework 3 into a range stun spell instead of a mobility spell keeps his playstyle and stun while giving him his weakness back and make his kit more fluid
They oughta just take the damage off the stun and he's completely balanced and still unique. That stun does way too much damage to justify it being in his kit.
the stun gives you an opportunity to be aggressive rather than passive all the time which keeps the god and the games exciting but the cooldown/stun duration should be nerfed a bit
In my perspective,Thoth has the weirdest story i have ever seen of a released God since i started playing,after Sol and Khepri, he literally was the perfect released god in my opinion: 1.A new and brand playstyle,fun character (with his laugh and walking animation) that shines with a new personality,he has this ''Aura'' of a inteligent,funny and litle egoist profesor that knows how to kick ass,kinda like a Indiana Jones,a personality that actually gives a refresh,because well,most of the guys are or try to be badasses or to be more funny that they should be,and femenine goddess are just boobs,except Jing Wei tho,i like that childish personality :P and Awilix,shes so KAWAI :D 2.His release is actually REALLY BALANCED and FUN,what i think is what they should do man,a god doesnt need to be OP to be fun,it just needs to be itneresting Hi Rez,damn it! He was totally fine and i had a ton of fun with Thoth release,but what happened was just what happened with me,it wasnt that interesting at the moment,for some reason,i dont know if im making this up,but it felt like,Thoth was seen like that guy that everybody likes but dont really care or want to be friends with him because they have their own friends to hang out with or dont have time,you know? 3.Also,Hi Rez is that company that just begs BUY ME,THIS GOD COSTED US WORK AND MONEY,WE NEED HIM TO HAVE ALOT OF YOUR ATTENTION!!! So of course he is gonna get buffed because a product has to be attractive. EDIT: Also,i like the stun on his kit,it works with how his 2 is played,but they nerfed his ultimate cooldown from 75 to friking 90 seconds,i think that is something you are ignoring Duke,and that is a IMPORTANT detail, HE HAD THE COOLDOWN OF RA ULT. Meaning,he could SPAM his ult,he didnt need to save t AS MUCH as almost every mage in the game,but now he has a normal cooldown ult,maybe that is the nerf that complement the stun tho?
Dont forget the damage reduction on the ulti. the ulti was his only other source of damage other than his 1, so a shot CD and a high damage was needed to kip up with his only 1 damage ability. Yea, the 2 has damage too, but if you use it for the damage, you lose the only escape he has, so it's not a good source of damage. For the stun in the 2, he lost a big chunk of damage and gain a longer CD on the ulti to compensate. If hirez will remove the stun, he will be weaker than his release, much more weaker.
You should make a vid about Freya. I'd like to hear your opinion on her because for now most people I know say she's op. I tried to play vs. her and as her and I think she stands out of the line when it comes to AA based mages because she's building faster than Chronos or Sol. Especially Sol.
HE NEEDED THE STUN! AND HE WAS UNDERPERFORMING < Slow AS HELL Couldn't stop anyone from getting at him...Your NUTS if you think anything less than a stun would work they changed it FOR A reason! THINK About it!
I think he needed be changed when he came out because there were better gods for long range poke/burst already and he really wouldn't compete with some other picks but he got changed the wrong way, random buffs and nerfs just to justify like "oh this skill is now op but don't worry this other skill was kinda nerfed" I think this game is going down hill slowly which is a shame, had the potential to be the best MOBA hands down, they're dumbing the game down way too much
so basically the 'Nox treatment' its getting more frequently that high rez slowly *cough* makes everything more op so its balanced at some point by buffing the last weak gods, i bet the reason why they do it this way has nothin to do with the fact that they were unable to balance the game till now...logic
Well you took all these stats from before his nerf to complain about a god who just got nerfed. He's still very strong but its very doubtful his ban rate wont drop a lot. He and rat we're banned so much for the reason theres no way to deal with them, but not thoth only has a single target stun, and you can just overwhelm him.
See, I was going to tell you what I though, but once again you said the same thing I was going to say. So yeah, I agree. But I also think Thoth's stun is as needed as Apollo mez protections. I mean come on. Why the hell not?
sibiris Put your webs on them and activate 1 and 2 then hold down left mouse. Bakasura jump on them, activate ult then hold down left mouse. Mercury grapple them, use steroid then hold down left mouse ect, ect...
DIsturbios1234 He has healing in his kit, he has a stun, a lot of chase potential, his ult is great for ganks, he will destroy you in mid game. He's basically Thor 2.0.
DIsturbios1234 His kit is just naturally better than most assassin. His kit has a slow, protection shred, stun, and knock up. Most assassins are lucky to get 2 CC.
DIsturbios1234 He has a knock up in his ult(best CC in game ) a slow, a stun and AOE damage his jg clear is fine his early game is strong because of his accorn and late game he can destroy a team fight) sorry about my gramar cellphone is damaged
His Stun should be changed to a Root.
A slow is pretty useless for Thoth, a Stun is too strong.
A Root serves the same purpose, you root them in place and hit them but it's not as safe.
I'd be alright with this. I liked the slow (it was potent enough to let him walk away) but a stun is unnecessary.
tbh I just want the scaling back on his ult though I hate suddenly only doing 95% of someone's health and having my last hit stolen
Mage syndrome... I feel ya.
You obviously never played against a Loki or ...Name a guy who can CC immune slows to get you ao KuanG teleports Change' dances, susano same Anhur , Arachne, aulix, xbalanque the list goes on W/ just how many Characters can dust a slow off like a corn flake and munch your Butt for even trying to slow them down...there are a few folks who prob still use winged blade too so.......& A root would be ok maybe but if folks can use there Ult or beads out then same issue as slow... basically pointless. might as well just stand there and wait to get hacked to death by #Name a God...SMH
Mabye a cripple just like rama
You should do a Whatever happened to Sol, cause she's basically gone now
her 3 isn't fucking op anymore. thats what happened. people abuse op shit, and when its reverted, the god is useless.
itsme7221 I didn't think the 3 was too op honestly the stun was nice but that was the only change that affected my play style with her I still use her and do pretty well with her
Alex Ogilvie She lost fatalis effect on her 3, so she cant be early game bully anymore. And she can still be decent if played right, only thing is there are much better picks now.
Luka Djoric oh right I forgot they did that my pc broke so I haven't had to deal with those nerds yet but I will when I finish getting it fixed yay...
Cerburus Arent you a smartass.. The whole point of my comment is that there is not a lot to talk abou on that case to make a video without repating same stuff in different ways...
My idea to fix him would be to make Glyph of Pain disappear whenever you go through it but make it to when he does, for the next few seconds it turns Evade and Punish into a stun from its normal slow. This would make him have to make a more clear decision if he wants the damage from Glyph or if he wants the stun.
I liked him more before Season 4. The stun wasn't needed, and I still feel the damage nerf on his ult.
HiRez's intention giving him a stun was to make lower-level players perform better on him. Thoth was supposed to be a hard god, and his stats reflected that- the only people who were doing really well were people that were _really really good_ on him. I don't understand why they had to make him more like a "normal" mage in order to make worse players do better on him. Now that people have recognized how strong he is, they're going to start nerfing the things he did well to begin with, and he'll be more boring to play.
ALSO: I want to see the SPL win rates for when Thoth was allowed to be picked. Yes, he was banned a lot, but outside of St3alth I can't recall ever seeing Thoth performing as a "first ban every game" god.
It wasn't hard to play Thoth to begin with. play like a bitch and spam your 1 and ult, bam you win. only things that beat them in terms of easiness are Rama, Artemis, Bakasura and Kali.
dragontyron fenrir my friend that's why he has a stun
thetimmon Bakasura has one of the highest learning curve... I wouldn't say it's easy to play with him, I would change Rama for Apollo, because Apollo it's easy af to play...
+Edgar M. Zetina Aguilar ult/butcher blades and hold left mouse/RT takes a while to learn? huh, who knew.
may as well add Apollo to the list, pretty much all of them are >insert abilities< then hold left mouse/RT, he's one of them. Rather have Ullr as the easiest thing to play in the game with everything else being harder than him, actually make it so you can actually fight an overleveled enemy and have a chance to come out on top for just being better than them.
You're 100% correct, at his outset Thoth's good damage and range was countered by the fact that you had to have good map awareness and positioning, which is why he had a low win rate as both of those things are something people at lower levels of play tend to ignore. I'm convinced that, had he not received those buffs, he would of probably been used in the SPL as intended, a late-game focused mage with strong objective secure and tower siege, which would of probably increased his win ratio as a result of people seeing how he is meant to be played..
Nothing went wrong he is perfect and beautiful
I disagree. Thoth early game was and still is really poor. Low damage, high cooldown in the escape. He still doesn't have CC immunity, so if he gets shut down by a better early game mage or a jungler, with his previous kit, he would have a slight to none recovery potential. His role was just damage. This is way too counterable, just Aegis it or build some defences.
When he was released, playing him was REALLY boring. Just staying under tower or behind the frontliners, just throwing his 1 trough his 3. Using evade and punish offensively was a guaranteed death. Where is the fun in that?
He still is a very unique, positioning dependent, mage with a unique kit and the best Laugh of the game: KARKAKRA KA KAKA KA KAK
AND THIS:
SCYLLA HAS:
- A long range, multiple hiting, hard damaging cripple-root;
- A huge AoE, high burst, slowing hability;
- A long range, fast escape, that works as a ward;
- A huge AoE, high burst, resetable, CC imune granting, ultimate, that also gives 70% movement speed.
- And finally, a passive that enhances all the abilities and gives her 80 magical power.
And everybody is chill with that. BUT THOTH HAS A STUN OMG TOO OP HI-REZ IS MAD PLZ NERF.
Matheus Silva but atleast against scylla u can fight back. Thoth just stuns ur ass then merks ur health. atleast Scylla requires more awareness
AceOf Spades Just like Scylla in late game. She can two-shot any squishy. the sic'em crush combo is a death sentence to any hunter/mage/assassin if the squishy don't use beads or aegis. Thoth can miss his glyphs after the stun, that is short in comparison with the 1.75s root-cripple of Sic'em. Plus, if she has polynomicon, a AA after the root will deal about 500 to 600 dmg.
So, yeah. Thoth is in a good position. He's no longer a late game ult bot. His gameplay is more fluid and versatile than it ever was
Matheus Silva thank you
Remember, it's completely intentional for Thoth to be a late god.
In the comparison of Scylla vs Thoth, Scylla has _much_ higher cooldowns than Thoth. He can get off two ability rotations in the time it takes her to do one. That's the tradeoff for her stronger CC and easier to hit abilities.
best comment^^ thank you
Thoth stun is as needed as Apollo mez protections.
lololol apollo is a god damn guardian. a knock up, speed buff and slow cc, a mez and protections lmao
Hugh Janus lol so "needed"
itsme7221 noob here, what does mez mean
Hipster: Roxas mesmorize, the sleep stun
Hipster: Roxas mezmeraize, is like a stun but when the mez target is hit ir removes it
3:18 the thoth process nice
I feel like Evade and Punish should be reverted to what it was in terms of its CC effect. The cooldown on Evade and Punish should be raised, not to what it was, but to a point where it isn't up so often. His Hieroglyphic Assault needs something so he isn't just a walking ult late game, maybe make it root an enemy if you hit them with all three hits. I feel like it needs something, or Glyph of Pain needs something.
I liked the S3 buffs (width and cooldown) a lot, since they just made him capable of using his 2 offensively as opposed to _never_. But the stun absolutely wasn't necessary.
Hieroglyphic Assault does considerable damage even late, especially if you're able to throw it on cooldown in fights, but I do agree that Glyph of Pain needs something. Right now it's just used to amplify Thoth's attacks or help knock down towers; I'd like to see something that made it more useful to your teammates in a teamfight.
IT does it extends the range of your allies basics as well but since this would really only apply to other mages and hunters. It isn't seen often enough to be basic player knowledge. I also don't know if affects ally abilities also. Test it to confirm.
+Malik Moffet It doesn't.If you remove the S3 buffs entirely (e.g the cooldown on his 2) then you just put the god in trash tier again.As far as a root on his 1 goes, whilst it makes more sense than putting a stun on his 2 (which doesn't help himself at all), you would only cause the same situation we're in right now, given how big the AOE on his 1 is (Duke kinda understated it).
It does not extend ally basic attack range, or boost ally ability damage.
It only boosts damage of basic attacks. If it increased ally basic attack range, you'd have Thoth in duo every two minutes to allow the hunter to safely poke the tower from out of its range.
I think instead of a stun a silence would be more accurate to his lore ^^
what i would do to balance thoth is to replace the stun on his 2 with his initial slow and make it so that if he hits a target with the 3 glyphs of pain, the 3rd shot will stun
10:29 I think Thoth needs a nerf to his stun(completely remove it even) and a damage nerf. Other mages or hunters can hardly touch the character or they will die trying.
Interesting video Duke. Any plans to do a similar video for Terra? Just figured since you kind of ranted a little about her latest change from your last patch note video.
Terra has some of the best clear of any guardian, wtf are you saying
I suggested this because in that video he said how Terra was losing her identity from being a low damage, high utility guardian to just another generic guardian.
He didn't need the stun by any means but Thoth players who think the stun isn't good are crazy. Also the group stun could be a secondary initiate in a teamfight. The dash did need it's cooldown reduced to some extent along with the mana cost reduction on his 3 as he relied on at least that and his 1 for clear.
Now that Terra's fallen out, Sylvanus has only gotten stronger.
Crazy idea to adjust: If thoth uses the glyph to buff his dash range, the cooldown becomes longer than base by insert number. Also adjust the cooldown base number to be somewhere like 14 all ranks so it's enforced.
Also, to the ones there are saying "he stun is fine, the problem is the damage", if Evade and punish became just a dash with a stun, Thoth would be severely nerfed into oblivion. He's 1 + 3 combo, in late game against a squishy, deals about 900 to 1100 dmg, if he lands the three shots. Now lets see other mages, in the same conditions
Scylla: 1+2 combo deals about 1400 to 1700
Janus: 1+2 combo deals 1500 to 1800
Poseidon 3+4+1+2= dead squishy with less than 2200 health.
most mages can 100 to 0 a squishy with one ability rotation (some with the ult, some without the ult) . if Thoth wasn't able to deal damage with evade and punish, he would be crap.
You are correct here, though your comparison to Poseidon is a little unfair 'cause you're factoring in his whole kit instead of two abilities.
except, thoth have a much safer range, when checking out, his 1 + 2 + 3 combo if he hit everything will basically do 1800 - 1900 damage which is more than enough to kill a mage, and if they dont die, just a single basic attack is needed, this was also from a build that doesnt go 100% into power but instead sacrifice a small bit of power for CDR!
so going for a build with 826 magical power (no buffs, just pure magical power from items)
His 1 alone will deal 966 damage!
His 2 alone will deal 726 damage!
His 1 + 2 combo without his glyph will do: 1692 damage!
His 3 will give 137.63 bonus magical damage on abilities that go through!
Now lets go through his 1 + 3 combo: 1378,89 damage!
Now we do his 2 + 3 combo: 863,63 damage!
Lets combine the damage from all 3 sources now: 2242,52 damage!
Now i dont know about you, but that is alot of damage for a mage with such long range!
But wait, we havent even talked about ult yet!
His ult alone does 1632 damage!
With his 3 it doesnt do that much increased overall damage, but instead it gets on 1770 damage at max charge!
How much damage would he do if he were to pop his entire kit into one person?
Now thats 4012,52 damage into one person! ofcourse the numbers will become less the more protections the enemy has
The build was tested out with: Shoes of magi, Doom Orb, Warlock Sash, Book of Thoth, Obsidian Shard, Rof of Tahuti (Everything fully stacked and lvl 20!)
this is my last little comment on this for now, i have just been checking out scylla with the exact same build, she is up on 933 magical power, yet her ult actually does less damage than Thoth ult, his would do 1770 with his glyph of pain combined, while Scylla ult does 1744!
Scyllas Crush does 1099 damage!
Sic' Em does 867 damage!
Combined they do 1966 damage!
While Scyllas Sic Em and Crush do more together than Thoth with his 1 + 2, he does a quite significant higher number of damage with his 1 + 2 + 3!
Also remember how Scylla cant do damage with her 3, while thoth will do damage with all 3!
Now we can already guess that Thoth will actually outdamage Scylla when you combine all of the abilities together on one person!
Thoth = 4012,52 damage!
Scylla = 3710 damage!
Remember this: Thoth had 826 magical power from the build, meanwhile Scylla had 933 magical power (with the help from her passive)
crysisman, that build is horrible in practice. Remember it suggests _triple stacking_.
Calculate the numbers on a more normal build; it'll probably look less ridiculous.
I think his evade and punish ability was good as a dodge and delay tool in its original iteration, I think as it stands now its being used as too much of an aggressive catch tool versus a save my ass tool which isn't a bad thing in its self but it hurts the character's initial vision which was as an artillery mage. To balance it out I think they should make his 2 not stun but have a decaying slow and maybe like a 2 second cripple so it still has some catch potential but at the same time isn't going to be used exclusively for that and it may see more use as it was originally intended that is more of a peel tool. That or they could make it so that his 2 projectile has properties similar to an Isis Spirit Ball in that it gains effects the further it travels, with a point blank hit being a slow and a cripple, a medium range hit being say a snare or just a steeper slow and a max range through the 3 hit being a stun, this would reward skillful Thoths while reducing the "dash in to their face for the surefire stun" play style that hurt his original identity. The other thing that may help Thoth is making his 3 store charges so he can control his artillery zone better.
Thoth stun is as needed as Apollo mez protections
would a root be better than a stun?
that stun was op af, it hit hard added to team fights with hard cc, could secure kills allows you to hit your first ability more easily
The multiman stuns were great for peeling a warrior and assassin (generally for others), especially in jungle channels.
what do you think of For Honor?
I don't like the stun either but what I really hope is they get rid of the option to cancel the ultimate. If you start charging up and make that god awful noise you shouldn't be able to cancel it. I've used sanctuary for nothing thinking I was going to get ulted and Thoth cancels it at the last second.
Originally it did cost mana every time he charged, that would be an inbetween-option.
that means you used it too early. having his ult being cancelable makes him alot more interesting to play / play against
Wait, did they remove the mana consumption upon beginning the charge? Huh, never noticed given the mana reduction on his 3 making his consumption actually decent.
+Jonathan Hoepner In terms of early sancs, if you sanc it and they cancel it, you have plenty of time to get out of doge.
the only thing i hate about thoth stun is the amount of damage it does, i'm in no way defending him having the stun, but if they made it to little to no damage by reducing scaling, or nerfing the rest of his kit significantly.
How about removing the stun, increasing the damage from the 3's enhanced AAs, buffing the 1 and 3's range, but giving all of his skills a minimum range?
The stun was unnecessary just put the slow back and he will be balanced again.
xuxon24 fenrir
Stun changed to Root and it's far better. The slow was garbage for such a small skillshot.
xuxon24 cripple maybe
Small skillshot? If you main thoth like I do, you would know that it's really easy to hit because of the fast animation
NaionProductions yeah lol I was thinking the same thing. Honestly when I miss that abilities which is pretty rare tbh I get mad at myself because it's so easy to land
Fucking triggers me so bad every time you say he's high mobility
Thoth stun was needed bcuz apollo has protections in his mez.....hey duke where da link for ban rate?
Please do what went wrong with Nox, including her state before her rework.
stun on evade and punish should only apply it passing through his 3
It's crazy how many game devs these videos attract
why does chronos get a damage buff but not sol only a healing buff on her 1
Because Sol can just wreck you even without the built in Fatalis! Chronos can't!
VentusLionheart ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT?
Where u from ?m8
That Thanatos was a beast. diving in a 1v3 and still comes out on top
I have a question - Would a cooldown + lifesteal item be op? like 15 of both? if not then y won't they add one!!?!??!
Maybe give the one a minor stacking slow, would require good aiming at range instead of stun
The stun could be changed to a slow + silence/cripple
A slow alone isn't really usefull, since most characters got a movement ability, which pretty much cancels out slows < 2 seconds.
A longer pure slow on the other hand would be too strong agressivly and not too usefull defensively.
Root. Simple as.
The stun isn't needed but he can dash turn around stun and continue to run away, wich is usefull but not needed
It can be great to escape from the middle of a fight but disable an opponent long enough to allow your team to gain a team fight advantage.
Ok I'm gonna say my thought in the stun. When I played Thoth before he got the stun I noticed I was losing to mages that had cc for the fact that they could deal similar damage. So comparing him to other mages he was weak but that seems like a common thing when comparing gods who do and don't have cc especially when the damage difference is minimal between them.
They should make it so if he goes through his 3 he gets the stun be if he doesn't he only gets the slow or maybe nothing but the damage
Thoth's stun makes it easier for me to gank enemies when they're at low health when my ult is down. The slow allowed them to escape easier via blinks, dashing, and jumping, and so I couldn't kill them as easily. I need that stun. Only on one god, sure, I totally agree that that needed to be changed, but just keep the stun.
Source: I'm a Diamond Thoth and main mid in comp.
First thing i have to say is that i really like the stun although i understand that it is somewhat op. Until it was removed i used the multistun very often, especially in 3v3 (joust i think?) and it made him much more viable in arena (people are more often in line).
My recommendation how to nerv him would be to connect the stun to the 3 so that you have to aim through his wall to apply it.
at 7:02 you said the scaling went up buy 20 % not down btw
can you not use Thoth like some bronze 5 player?
Only reason I had been playing Thoth was because the fact that I could one shoot ppl with his ult. Now it's noticeably weaker. Stun is good, but it makes him being more like Isis. I would rather have that scaling back than that stun..
Agreed. His 1/2 damage have amazing poke potential too once you get the hang of hitting them.
I'll never forget one-shotting a full health Sylvanus with the ult, from the jungle. I can't do that anymore and it makes me sad.
dragontyron and its a good thing that you cant do that, he was op with his prenerf ult.
I dunno man, it takes like two years to fully charge the thing. Fair trade for doing loads of damage in a relatively thin (for an ult) line, yes?
dragontyron it still doesn explosive damage its not like its lacking that depertment, pre nerf it did too much
I'd like to point out that no mage in the game will ever "box" barring Sol, Chronos, and Freya. Boxing is for hunters. Bursting people down is what mages do. Saying that "actually good players" would rather box is laughable. Maybe if you're one of those "adc or feed" people, sure.
Outside his ult, Thoth's kit isn't even as strong as other gods (such as Scylla) for that burst. He's better at poking people out, which stops working the instant they have a healer.
The argument with his ult's damage isn't that we want the damage back, necessarily (I'm fine with how hard it hits late, even if I'm a _little_ upset that it now only brings people to 5% hp and someone else grabs the last hit), it's that we'd rather have the ridiculous damage than the stun on his 2. Removing his stun would justify having a harder-hitting ult. It's not like anyone in the game aside from tanks are effected by it, since any squishier class still gets one-shot.
he's still crazy strong,his range is unbelievable
Remember that South Park episode where they had manatee's making decisions? (I think it was the family guy parody) Well this is what smite feels like. When they brought up the new designers everything just slowly started falling apart. The guy that thought of Ravana, he looks like a guy from a previous interview that worked on the programming department(I could be wrong. Maybe they're two different individuals). But if it is the same guy... you can't just move a programmer to designs cause that just doesn't work at all. Anyways, just me ranting. I could be wrong. But I've played this game since it started on closed beta, seen it go from mages being able to pick phys items to the focus attribute to what it is now and I'm sad to say that I might quit playing cause they just can't seem to make up their minds. A good example is the relic issue. Going from buying a full tier 3 to buying 3 separate tiers to going back to a full tier 3 for free to going back to buying a separate tier.
more like: What went wrong with Smite?
Thats an old song..
Thoth needs numerous nerfs. His ultimate can one shot people just as much as any other mage but it has many times bigger range. He's another one of those "Utility mages" just like Raijin now, that joke is becoming way too real.
Ok, how about this. You bring back the slow make it 3 sec and passes trough all targets, but when you throw it trough his 3 you stun the first enemy hit and slow others. That gives him some sort of CC but it will be harder to apply because you need the wall to stun
I'm thinking revert the cooldown buff and he would be fine. 18s again for an aggressive stun
DukeSloth I don't agree with Thoth being lost with his stun I actually think the opposite, I found it very much needed. There are multiple ways to counter both the slow and stun. But the way they can easily nerf him is to take the evade away from the glyph so the glyph can only affect projectiles and reducing the damage the punish does. Also nerfing the glyph by increasing the mana cost and giving cooldown scaling about 9/8/7/6/5 to 13/11/9/7/5 would be perfect. When Thoth first came out I hated him and never wanted to play him, now he is a viable option for the mage category. Those changes would make him more playable to please everyone.
Thoth is fine where he is.
imo to make thoth smth interesting, devs need to revamp him (change passive/overhaul his range mechanics/add some skill requirements to play the god), otherwise it's a handicap version of Agni that deals more dmg and can clear waves under his tower be4 the minions even meet eachother in lane ~
Thoth is perfect rn
Whatever happened to Herc plssss :c
herc is actually unkillable now
Thoth stun is as needed as Hastened Fatalis effect on every mage ADC.
I'd like to think that I am an avid Thoth player with 2,5k worshippers in him.
I agree completely that he shouldn't have the stun, revert it back to a slow and allow it to travel through all enemies. (and put the ult cooldown back down by 5-10 sec)
Keep him otherwise as he is since its fine like that, the stun is completely uncalled for,
but knowing hi-rez, he's going to become the next Chiron and get nerfed into the ground and then literally unplayed until he gets a minor buff which will take about 6 months to facilitate.
Everything else about him is justifyable, increased projectile speed, evade and punish cooldown reduction, ult damage reduction (hurts a bit that it got lowered, but its fine.).
However i'm not really on the train that the ult should have a 15s extra cooldown.
That's pretty normal for Hi-rez. Have a quite interesting design-idea, but when there is a minior problem with this not fitting in meta or performing not well it got more or less reworked to one of the most boring characters regarding innovation. Look at NuWa or Nox for the most obvious examples.
Dont forget Arachne. Went from unique to most generic assasin out there.
sibiris kinda, most arachne players I go against cant play her well.
Uh what. NuWa and Nox are some of the more unique kits. Exploding your AI minions, a local invisibility field, and for nox the whole interaction of trapping enemies in her 2 with her 1, and going inside friendlies. You might not like them, but they're unique (and fun to me). The only boring part about them are their ults.
sibiris You're right but I didn't mentioned Arachne because people may say her old kit wasn't that interesting. She got picked mostly because of her hook and her jungle skill.
DryT3c Their old designs were way more innovative. Nox's 2 and 1 are just a good combination like thoth wall and projectiles (don't know the numbers). And the thing about NuWa is her passive and her ult. The passive is completely out of kit in my opinion and the minions + 3 is just another two-ability-combination. Don't misunderstand me. I like both characters. I play Nox myself sometimes and have NuWa on lvl 10 (though mainly the old one ^^) but I think their old kits had way more innovations and were way more fun to play for me.
change the stun back to a slow, or make it a weaker slow with a cripple
Personally, I really like Thoth. He's a good Mage and he does feel different to me because of his 3, but I think he does need the stun at the moment because he's just not strong enough to hold people off without it.
He's perfectly fine the way he is. It doesn't take much to easily kill him. Example: Thanatos, Thor, Rat, Ao Kuang, any guardian building defense. He has no way to break CC without beads. He's just like any other mage, he needs to worry about positioning etc. His ult can even be interrupted and takes time to get to full strength. I don't understand what he was trying to get at, making it sound like he is this big problem. Look at all the gods banned in previous seasons, he seems strong now, but that always changes with time. This wasn't even a problem until they gave him a stun, then people started losing their shit.
theaveragelevi He was already very strong before his stun, it was an unneeded change that gave him easier lane phase with more early kill potential and the like
theaveragelevi There it is the blind stupid comment trying to make sense of nonsense with garbage points
why a stun i like the slow
Do you wanna know what went wrong? They kept kicking that dead bird around instead of nerfing the older gods.
"In 2017. Video shows thoth do 180+ dmg with a single Q hit (to miniom) Up to 3 times.
Its 2020, With the similar magic power, it does around ~100. 110 through glyph, damage.
Let alone doing 200 to a god, you can't even clear ranged minions with 3 shots now. Its ridiculus
why not just rework 3 into a range stun spell instead of a mobility spell keeps his playstyle and stun while giving him his weakness back and make his kit more fluid
Stun to root?
Slow.
if they want to keep the stun then they should remove the dash
Why not just change it into a root and silence? /s
They oughta just take the damage off the stun and he's completely balanced and still unique. That stun does way too much damage to justify it being in his kit.
Reddit tier players defend the stun. There is (again) new thread on reddit about the unnecessary stun, yet most defend it there
Order & Chaos Osiris is balanced
Osiris needs rework he is so boring to play as.
the stun gives you an opportunity to be aggressive rather than passive all the time which keeps the god and the games exciting but the cooldown/stun duration should be nerfed a bit
In my perspective,Thoth has the weirdest story i have ever seen of a released God since i started playing,after Sol and Khepri, he literally was the perfect released god in my opinion:
1.A new and brand playstyle,fun character (with his laugh and walking animation) that shines with a new personality,he has this ''Aura'' of a inteligent,funny and litle egoist profesor that knows how to kick ass,kinda like a Indiana Jones,a personality that actually gives a refresh,because well,most of the guys are or try to be badasses or to be more funny that they should be,and femenine goddess are just boobs,except Jing Wei tho,i like that childish personality :P and Awilix,shes so KAWAI :D
2.His release is actually REALLY BALANCED and FUN,what i think is what they should do man,a god doesnt need to be OP to be fun,it just needs to be itneresting Hi Rez,damn it! He was totally fine and i had a ton of fun with Thoth release,but what happened was just what happened with me,it wasnt that interesting at the moment,for some reason,i dont know if im making this up,but it felt like,Thoth was seen like that guy that everybody likes but dont really care or want to be friends with him because they have their own friends to hang out with or dont have time,you know?
3.Also,Hi Rez is that company that just begs BUY ME,THIS GOD COSTED US WORK AND MONEY,WE NEED HIM TO HAVE ALOT OF YOUR ATTENTION!!! So of course he is gonna get buffed because a product has to be attractive.
EDIT: Also,i like the stun on his kit,it works with how his 2 is played,but they nerfed his ultimate cooldown from 75 to friking 90 seconds,i think that is something you are ignoring Duke,and that is a IMPORTANT detail, HE HAD THE COOLDOWN OF RA ULT. Meaning,he could SPAM his ult,he didnt need to save t AS MUCH as almost every mage in the game,but now he has a normal cooldown ult,maybe that is the nerf that complement the stun tho?
Dont forget the damage reduction on the ulti.
the ulti was his only other source of damage other than his 1, so a shot CD and a high damage was needed to kip up with his only 1 damage ability.
Yea, the 2 has damage too, but if you use it for the damage, you lose the only escape he has, so it's not a good source of damage.
For the stun in the 2, he lost a big chunk of damage and gain a longer CD on the ulti to compensate. If hirez will remove the stun, he will be weaker than his release, much more weaker.
according to smite tutorial mages have limited movement options, yet they have better escapes than assassins, and many are the fastest in the game
I dont know where all this "just buy aegis hurrdurr" is coming from, thoth was completely broken after they gave him that stun
**clicks on video**
**comments without even watching**
He moves fucking slow!
He moves REALLY fucking slow!
Mystery solved
3:18 hehe... Thoth process.
I personally love thoth but I am so glad you can't stun multiple people anymore that was a bit too much
Plays Thoth. Only uses ult to last hit enemies
You should make a vid about Freya. I'd like to hear your opinion on her because for now most people I know say she's op. I tried to play vs. her and as her and I think she stands out of the line when it comes to AA based mages because she's building faster than Chronos or Sol. Especially Sol.
When you were in the stream and said he was doing bad and then immediately gets much better XD sorry bout the rudeness and ohai :3
You should make a video about how bad Kuzenbo is.
Give his 3 a longer cool down. Make him actually have to think about using that bullshit.
Duke sloth "Thoth was weak so he was good, but when he was nerfed he became basic" ❤️️💕😉
Remove the sun give movement speed to his 3 when thoth and allies pass by. :D
That's pretty much it. I think.
my main ratatoskr is still so banned? im proud
HE NEEDED THE STUN! AND HE WAS UNDERPERFORMING < Slow AS HELL Couldn't stop anyone from getting at him...Your NUTS if you think anything less than a stun would work they changed it FOR A reason! THINK About it!
If Thoth needed a stun give hel a knock up root cripple a stun and a 3 sec mez
I think he needed be changed when he came out because there were better gods for long range poke/burst already and he really wouldn't compete with some other picks but he got changed the wrong way, random buffs and nerfs just to justify like "oh this skill is now op but don't worry this other skill was kinda nerfed" I think this game is going down hill slowly which is a shame, had the potential to be the best MOBA hands down, they're dumbing the game down way too much
so basically the 'Nox treatment' its getting more frequently that high rez slowly *cough* makes everything more op so its balanced at some point by buffing the last weak gods, i bet the reason why they do it this way has nothin to do with the fact that they were unable to balance the game till now...logic
Thoth can have stun, but plz make it stop at the 1st enemy hit, I don't want to face Change's ulti every 15 second !!!
that's already done in the patch that came out yesterday.
Can we talk about the trash lazy patch job hi rez did to my man susano though
Well you took all these stats from before his nerf to complain about a god who just got nerfed. He's still very strong but its very doubtful his ban rate wont drop a lot. He and rat we're banned so much for the reason theres no way to deal with them, but not thoth only has a single target stun, and you can just overwhelm him.
His stun I just saved some people 12 mins of their life
See, I was going to tell you what I though, but once again you said the same thing I was going to say. So yeah, I agree. But I also think Thoth's stun is as needed as Apollo mez protections. I mean come on. Why the hell not?
2:00 hurt my heart lol
The changes haven't made a difference in my gameplay with him.
This reminds me of how they ruined Arachne because she was too unique and didnt "fit" in any role according to Hirez.
sibiris Put your webs on them and activate 1 and 2 then hold down left mouse. Bakasura jump on them, activate ult then hold down left mouse. Mercury grapple them, use steroid then hold down left mouse ect, ect...
as generic as it gets...but at least now she fits the playscene and the meta wery well.. right? right¿
Thoth stun is as needed as Apollo mez protections
pikachu das galaxias you literally copied this comment from another person.
or you should read the end of the description :D
Someone mind explaining why ratatoskr is OP rather than simply saying 'cuz he is' or 'he haz can buy boots from baze'
DIsturbios1234 He has healing in his kit, he has a stun, a lot of chase potential, his ult is great for ganks, he will destroy you in mid game.
He's basically Thor 2.0.
DIsturbios1234 His kit is just naturally better than most assassin. His kit has a slow, protection shred, stun, and knock up. Most assassins are lucky to get 2 CC.
DIsturbios1234 He has a knock up in his ult(best CC in game ) a slow, a stun and AOE damage his jg clear is fine his early game is strong because of his accorn and late game he can destroy a team fight) sorry about my gramar cellphone is damaged
Slow, protection shred, stun, knockup, tons of mobility, high base damage, heals. Do i need to keep going?
I think that even having a powerful kit rat is good as it is don't need changes, Strong but not impossible to Play against