Those "historians (especially this woman" are funny. So, the Easter Rising was not justified, because they destroyed some buildings, but on the other hand, the fact that about one million of Irishmen died during the Great Famine and the British Empire actually had resources to help them... this is not a problem for them. :)
I can't fathom out Ruth Dudley Edwards. I think she adopts a contrarian view simply for marketing purposes. She has very little credibility. From my reading about the 1916 Rising I've concluded that Pearse and his colleagues acted in good faith but were a little naive. I think if Ruth Dudley Edwards had her way all 32 counties would still be under British rule.
Also it was British artillery and a gun boat that destroyed the buildings, the Irish patriots were heavily outnumbered and outgunned. Years of censorship because of the South's embarrassment of Partition and wishing the South's population to be ignorant of the third class treatment of their fellow countrymen in the 6 counties. Its truly amazing that an independent country is talking about also celebrating those who helped keep it repressed and under foreign control. People like Clarke, McDermott, Pearce and Connolly knew they'd be laying their lives down but thought it worth it to win Irish freedom, they must be spinning in their graves today. War is dirty, its always dirty and that's why it should be a last resort.
Of course it was justified. If it wasn’t, then neither was the American Revolution justified, nor the Mexican war for independence. All three of them should have remained good little colonies, if your answer is they are not justified.
All those who claim that the Irish fighters of 1916 "...had no mandate..." have a duty to define exactly what democratic mandate the British Empire had to rule the Irish people. In reality, the British Empire NEVER had any such mandate. And the sad truth is that EVERY popular democratic attempt to secure independence from the British Empire was, until the Irish Parliamentary Party became kingmakers in the House of Commons, met with repression and violence.
@@theosergiou7406 My point is his comment is seriously simplifying a very complex issue and centuries of history. I’m more annoyed the point wasn’t elaborated more.
The Land War of the 1880s was only a few decades before 1916. Land agitation was as much a revolt against British rule as it was about land rights, because landlordisim was the coalface of British colonialism in rural Ireland. Yet many historians underplay the connection between the Land War and 1916, focusing instead on the legacy of various revolts such as 1798, 1803, 1848, 1867 etc. But if you factor in the Land War as well as these revolts and risings, you find evidence of widespread continuous anti-imperialist support throughout Ireland up until the 1916 Rising, which can be read as a mandate from the people. Even Irish men in the British Army supported the War of Independence, the Connacht Rangers mutinied because of it. This suggests that loyalty to Britain in Ireland was only skin deep before the Rising, that is why the people of Ireland rallied behind the Volunteers after the execution of the 1916 leaders, the flying columns only succeeded because they had popular support. The idea that most of the Irish were against the Rising until after the executions never made sense to me. The Rising was the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back, it radicalized the Irish yes, but it didn't turn previously loyal British subjects into nationalists. With Regards to the RIC. I suspect many Irish people believed joining the RIC was more traitorous than joining the British army. Join the army and you fight abroad, join the RIC and you join an quasi-military police force that was the strong arm of landlordism, a police force who battered Dublin workers during the 1913 lockout. When the Connacht Rangers were stationed in Galway they routinely got into pitched battles with the local RIC, and had to be confined to barracks. On paper the Rangers and the RIC were on the same side. Other British Regiments stationed in Galway (a garrison town) would get into pitched battles with the local populace, but the Rangers , who were made up of Irishmen fought the RIC. This suggests that the RIC was not an Irish police force, but was instead a quasi-military agency tasked with policing the Irish, a subtle but significant distinction. Irish people need to stop apologizing for 1916. I have never heard anyone question the justification of modern European democracy, but European democracy- irrespective of its Creek influence- sprung from the French Revolution. A lot of innocent people were sent to madame guillotine during the Revolution, does this mean we should question the legitimacy of the French Revolution and by extension European democracy? The Volunteers were anti-colonialists as well as nationalists, and they inspired others elsewhere to throw of the yoke of colonialism in India and in Latin America, we should be proud of this. There are plenty of things we can hang our heads about as a nation (Civil War, Mother and Child Homes, Abuse of Children by our Religious Orders, political corruption, boom bust economics etc.) but the Easter Rising and the War of Independence are not some of them.
The number of Irish killed in the First World War was 35,000. The number of Irish killed in the Easter Rising, War of Independence and Civil War combined was ~4,000. I rest my case.
Defenders of the rising seem to be overlooking the fact that the British Empire broke up just a few decades later. Ireland didn't gain full independence until around that time.
@@gregobroin7738 I believe the Empire was doomed the minute WW1 broke out. I also believe Home Rule for 26 counties would have been a stepping stone for full independence.
If home rule came through, there would have been a bigger civil war in Ireland. And 1916 would have never happened if the British had never invade. Ireland unfree shall never be at peace~ Padraig Pearse Tiocfaidh Ár Lá
@@thomasswanton9361 The poppy represents all murdering british soldiers who died in battle. Even this filth : th-cam.com/video/fhfgQOLSrTQ/w-d-xo.html. Enjoy.
It would take our own National Broadcaster the West Brits RTE to question the merit or justification of our 1916 Hero’s. Some were indeed happy under the thumb of The British, some had it decent, but the country was not ours, none of it. There has been many changes since, Rte is not one of them
The West Brits in RTE have no right to question Irelands Heroes. What Country didn't have to fight for their Independence? These Irish Unionists should be ashamed of themselves.
The easy blather of the privileged and those lucky enough to be a hundred years removed. Given that my wife's maternal grandparents were encouraged to emigrate at the point of a gun following their service in the Rebellion and Civil War, I am beyond outraged. Turned out that they risked their lives and sacrificed their birthright for the usual cabal of money hustlers, incompetents, and the Church.
on google type (finbar neill on amazon) my four books on the censored issues and legal precedent is withdrawn by UK Government for the Leaders of 1916 will be see. I made my case claim through ECHR. Finbar Neill
If the Easter Rising was justified, one must take the next logical step and say the IRA campaign during the Troubles was justified. Either they both were or neither were.
RDE's responses are so predictable. While it was an understandable reaction to British duplicity I think the 1916 rising was not justified. It played into the hands of an enemy who probably deliberately provoked it. Nor is it clear that it was a last resort used only after more peaceful approaches had failed. It was not however only a question of having a 'democratic mandate'. We cannot have votes on everything. 'Northern Ireland' owed its existence to the votes of an artificially contrived protestant/ unionist majority. Its days now seem to be numbered since that majority no longer exists, Sorry to give you such bad news RDE! Well actually I am not really all that sorry ...
IIhave always considered that the 1916 rebellion was unjustified The destruction of major Dublin buildings , the consequences for the civil population of Dublin and other parts of Ireland and the amount of money recklessly mspent in excessive commemoration in 2016 is unworthy of civilisation. I deplore the fact that leading Irish politicians and churchmen have taken such a prominent part in the commemeration of barbarity is unaceptable.
I lament violence but I think it was the last straw after having tried peaceful alternatives. I mean how many people were being sent by the government that ruled Ireland to be blown to smithereens in flanders? What galls me is that the UVF in Belfast was publically armed by the Germans in 1913, and was backed by the British army (currage mutiny) and the Tory party to go against the rule of British law and the elected British government!! That was the moment when all right thinking Irish people had to say STOP! (actually rightminded british people should have too) We are not going to continue under this corrupt, murderous and treacherous regime. Pearse got that message in 1913. Redmond, nice man and all that he was , didnt and tens of thousands more irish died in WWI because of it.
it was the british that carried out the barbarity you speak of. Pearse surrendered when the british attack occured and was aggrieved by civilian casualties.
Redmond advocated Home Rule (like Parnell), if he did not agree with sending Irishmen out to world war 1 ,then his way of thinking would have been preferable.
A whole generation of Irish were taught to revere the Easter Rising. It's hard not to think this helped bring about the Troubles. I wonder also if Ireland might have stayed together without it.
Who in gods name is the silly red haired oldish lady ? Talk about tripe ! Close you’re mouth woman ! The only person worth listening to is DF, the rest are absolute has beens !
Does anyone go around asking if the American revolution was justifiable?
They wouldnt dare! And yet the irish had far more reason to revolt than the colonialists.
No only the Irish are not allowed rebel because they are Catholic that the British view.
@@RobertK1993 not true, they were going to be free, world war 1 broke out so they needed to fight
@@thomasswanton9361 Needed to fight for who? Get your mother to explain it to you.
Irish loved that killing in usa
Those "historians (especially this woman" are funny. So, the Easter Rising was not justified, because they destroyed some buildings, but on the other hand, the fact that about one million of Irishmen died during the Great Famine and the British Empire actually had resources to help them... this is not a problem for them. :)
I can't fathom out Ruth Dudley Edwards. I think she adopts a contrarian view simply for marketing purposes. She has very little credibility. From my reading about the 1916 Rising I've concluded that Pearse and his colleagues acted in good faith but were a little naive. I think if Ruth Dudley Edwards had her way all 32 counties would still be under British rule.
the IRA supporters always hate anyone who doesn't agree with them LOL
@@longmemory1620 Trump lost you low iq troglodyte
Also it was British artillery and a gun boat that destroyed the buildings, the Irish patriots were heavily outnumbered and outgunned. Years of censorship because of the South's embarrassment of Partition and wishing the South's population to be ignorant of the third class treatment of their fellow countrymen in the 6 counties. Its truly amazing that an independent country is talking about also celebrating those who helped keep it repressed and under foreign control. People like Clarke, McDermott, Pearce and Connolly knew they'd be laying their lives down but thought it worth it to win Irish freedom, they must be spinning in their graves today. War is dirty, its always dirty and that's why it should be a last resort.
In Britain at the time, you help yourself, whether you are poor, rich, Catholic, Protestant, Irish or English.
Of course it was justified. If it wasn’t, then neither was the American Revolution justified, nor the Mexican war for independence. All three of them should have remained good little colonies, if your answer is they are not justified.
All those who claim that the Irish fighters of 1916 "...had no mandate..." have a duty to define exactly what democratic mandate the British Empire had to rule the Irish people.
In reality, the British Empire NEVER had any such mandate.
And the sad truth is that EVERY popular democratic attempt to secure independence from the British Empire was, until the Irish Parliamentary Party became kingmakers in the House of Commons, met with repression and violence.
so being bullied by the British justifies killing your own people ?
@@longmemory1620
Sorry?
Where did that strange brain fart come from?
@@longmemory1620 What exactly are you talking about ? Give some detail if that’s not too difficult for you.
@@nervesinapattern7261 Well by using violence in the middle of peaceful negotiations for Home Rule you are putting your citizens under serious risk
@@theosergiou7406 My point is his comment is seriously simplifying a very complex issue and centuries of history. I’m more annoyed the point wasn’t elaborated more.
The Land War of the 1880s was only a few decades before 1916. Land agitation was as much a revolt against British rule as it was about land rights, because landlordisim was the coalface of British colonialism in rural Ireland. Yet many historians underplay the connection between the Land War and 1916, focusing instead on the legacy of various revolts such as 1798, 1803, 1848, 1867 etc. But if you factor in the Land War as well as these revolts and risings, you find evidence of widespread continuous anti-imperialist support throughout Ireland up until the 1916 Rising, which can be read as a mandate from the people. Even Irish men in the British Army supported the War of Independence, the Connacht Rangers mutinied because of it. This suggests that loyalty to Britain in Ireland was only skin deep before the Rising, that is why the people of Ireland rallied behind the Volunteers after the execution of the 1916 leaders, the flying columns only succeeded because they had popular support. The idea that most of the Irish were against the Rising until after the executions never made sense to me. The Rising was the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back, it radicalized the Irish yes, but it didn't turn previously loyal British subjects into nationalists.
With Regards to the RIC. I suspect many Irish people believed joining the RIC was more traitorous than joining the British army. Join the army and you fight abroad, join the RIC and you join an quasi-military police force that was the strong arm of landlordism, a police force who battered Dublin workers during the 1913 lockout. When the Connacht Rangers were stationed in Galway they routinely got into pitched battles with the local RIC, and had to be confined to barracks. On paper the Rangers and the RIC were on the same side. Other British Regiments stationed in Galway (a garrison town) would get into pitched battles with the local populace, but the Rangers , who were made up of Irishmen fought the RIC. This suggests that the RIC was not an Irish police force, but was instead a quasi-military agency tasked with policing the Irish, a subtle but significant distinction. Irish people need to stop apologizing for 1916. I have never heard anyone question the justification of modern European democracy, but European democracy- irrespective of its Creek influence- sprung from the French Revolution. A lot of innocent people were sent to madame guillotine during the Revolution, does this mean we should question the legitimacy of the French Revolution and by extension European democracy? The Volunteers were anti-colonialists as well as nationalists, and they inspired others elsewhere to throw of the yoke of colonialism in India and in Latin America, we should be proud of this. There are plenty of things we can hang our heads about as a nation (Civil War, Mother and Child Homes, Abuse of Children by our Religious Orders, political corruption, boom bust economics etc.) but the Easter Rising and the War of Independence are not some of them.
wonderfully written.
Absolutely spot on and well explained. Truth.
Why do RTÉ bring in that old bag of a woman to cover this? It’s like a British documentary from the 50s
Academic. More than you or you'd be on the show
@@joprocter4573 she is not an academic. She's a fraud and revisionist
What do you expect from BBC Dublin?
An excellent programme, compliments to all concerned
The number of Irish killed in the First World War was 35,000. The number of Irish killed in the Easter Rising, War of Independence and Civil War combined was ~4,000. I rest my case.
Can both not be equally condemned, or is it just a matter of numbers to you?
Defenders of the rising seem to be overlooking the fact that the British Empire broke up just a few decades later. Ireland didn't gain full independence until around that time.
And?
IRA supporters overlook murder and pedophilia
Some would claim it was Ireland that led the way and was an inspiration to other nations like India.
@@gregobroin7738 I believe the Empire was doomed the minute WW1 broke out. I also believe Home Rule for 26 counties would have been a stepping stone for full independence.
Don't pay your licence fee until rte are reformed
That will be the day!
If home rule came through, there would have been a bigger civil war in Ireland. And 1916 would have never happened if the British had never invade. Ireland unfree shall never be at peace~ Padraig Pearse Tiocfaidh Ár Lá
John Stokes I loved it a civil war broke out in Ireland between Catholics and Protestants as an Atheist it should be entertaining.
@@RobertK1993 It would have been a war between nationalists and unionists.
No other country on earth psychologically beats itself up about its past quite like Ireland.
The hell with them poppys
The hell with those shamrocks
Them poppys represent ALL who died in world war 1 irish british german french and all the other
@@thomasswanton9361 The poppy represents all murdering british soldiers who died in battle. Even this filth : th-cam.com/video/fhfgQOLSrTQ/w-d-xo.html. Enjoy.
It would take our own National Broadcaster the West Brits RTE to question the merit or justification of our 1916 Hero’s. Some were indeed happy under the thumb of The British, some had it decent, but the country was not ours, none of it. There has been many changes since, Rte is not one of them
Yes.
The West Brits in RTE have no right to question Irelands Heroes.
What Country didn't have to fight for their Independence?
These Irish Unionists should be ashamed of themselves.
The easy blather of the privileged and those lucky enough to be a hundred years removed.
Given that my wife's maternal grandparents were encouraged to emigrate at the point of a gun following their service in the Rebellion and Civil War, I am beyond outraged.
Turned out that they risked their lives and sacrificed their birthright for the usual cabal of money hustlers, incompetents, and the Church.
Here gose the crown cut down lies about bloddy sunday and 1916 rising Crown still in charge today over seing our dail
No!
on google type (finbar neill on amazon) my four books on the censored issues and legal precedent is withdrawn by UK Government for the Leaders of 1916 will be see. I made my case claim through ECHR. Finbar Neill
Go on Tom Clarke ye good thing.
Its not over brits out now and free staters out to
If the Easter Rising was justified, one must take the next logical step and say the IRA campaign during the Troubles was justified. Either they both were or neither were.
kcirdrab Wrong 1916 was the troubles were not.
Robert Kelly WRONG both were. The Provisional IRA fought against foreign troops on their land. Period.
kcirdrab SHUT THE FUCK UP.
@@tomkelly5050 they fought a country and a people who wanted to stay british and still do
@@tomkelly5050 and 1916 was the same
Get the British out and now have yourself ruled by Europe......yep.....that's real independance
Its hard to know which is worse!
RDE's responses are so predictable.
While it was an understandable reaction to British duplicity I think the 1916 rising was not justified. It played into the hands of an enemy who probably deliberately provoked it. Nor is it clear that it was a last resort used only after more peaceful approaches had failed. It was not however only a question of having a 'democratic mandate'. We cannot have votes on everything. 'Northern Ireland' owed its existence to the votes of an artificially contrived protestant/ unionist majority. Its days now seem to be numbered since that majority no longer exists, Sorry to give you such bad news RDE! Well actually I am not really all that sorry ...
Time to get the brits out
It's in your blood well past 800yrs ago
what a stupid question .. of coarse it was..
IIhave always considered that the 1916 rebellion was unjustified
The destruction of major Dublin buildings , the consequences for the civil population of Dublin and other parts of Ireland
and the amount of money recklessly mspent in excessive commemoration in 2016 is unworthy of civilisation. I deplore the fact that leading Irish politicians and churchmen have taken such a prominent part in the commemeration of barbarity is unaceptable.
I lament violence but I think it was the last straw after having tried peaceful alternatives. I mean how many people were being sent by the government that ruled Ireland to be blown to smithereens in flanders?
What galls me is that the UVF in Belfast was publically armed by the Germans in 1913, and was backed by the British army (currage mutiny) and the Tory party to go against the rule of British law and the elected British government!!
That was the moment when all right thinking Irish people had to say STOP! (actually rightminded british people should have too) We are not going to continue under this corrupt, murderous and treacherous regime. Pearse got that message in 1913. Redmond, nice man and all that he was , didnt and tens of thousands more irish died in WWI because of it.
it was the british that carried out the barbarity you speak of. Pearse surrendered when the british attack occured and was aggrieved by civilian casualties.
"the destruction of major Dublin Buildings" the British army of the time, did that.....
Redmond advocated Home Rule (like Parnell), if he did not agree with sending Irishmen out to world war 1 ,then his way of thinking would have been preferable.
A whole generation of Irish were taught to revere the Easter Rising. It's hard not to think this helped bring about the Troubles. I wonder also if Ireland might have stayed together without it.
Who in gods name is the silly red haired oldish lady ? Talk about tripe ! Close you’re mouth woman ! The only person worth listening to is DF, the rest are absolute has beens !
Sadly you don't want to learn
Has there ever been an Irish republican that actually had a subtle understanding of history?
No