Yeah mine is 1978, and was the very first wood foundation home where I live in Northern Saskatchewan Canada 🇨🇦. It's still holding strong today, has never leaked, and never had a single issue.
Sitting in a 1987 pwf right now. Wife’s parents had it built, we have concrete footing and a concrete basement floor. 2x8 fdn lumber and 3/4 fdn plywood. Father in law did a roll on asphalt roof sealant and 2 layers of thick black poly before backfill. We live on 70’ of river sand. In 30 years the sump has never had a drop of water in it. We don’t heat or cool the basement and it stays a consistent 66-68 all year. In our neighborhood in Mn here, there are like 5-6 other houses from the late 80s on wood foundations.
Michigan needs to learn these kinds of things from Minnesota. So close on the map, so far IRL though, with no proper rail network to connect Midwest cities.
I would love to see a video showing this build from the start and not just talking about it after the face, though very interesting. Are there any applications in here to help people fix dirt floor crawl spaces with some of these methods then?
still seems like cmus would be cheaper. Probably not as fast for a diy though. But special ordered treated ply? I bet that stuff is $100 per sheet. Not to mention the treated dimensional lumber and special fasteners.
@@timm439 Not sure If I'm interpreting the question right, but forming a tall concrete wall is one of the most skilled and difficult parts of construction. ICF would be a much much more diy approach
@@95thousandroses I can see maybe the stem walls being wood (with ridiculously good waterproofing and near zero chance of puncture.. they should’ve had dimple mat for reducing hydrostatic pressure), but I’m mainly not understanding a single 2x12 as a footing.. that’s just stupid… no load distribution capability compared with concrete which isn’t hard even DIY.
I designed resort cabins in the rockies with PWF. The main issue was getting concrete to the site. I have also been involved with heavy timber PWF foundation in the Northern Canadian territories where the building is raised above grade to keep the ground frozen. We use heavy timber much like a pad footing and then stand piers and braces on the pads to construct the building above the ground. Wind is allowed to pass under the building.
My grandparents 120+ year old log house was recently demolished. It had an untreated wooden log foundation; and the log wood was in amazingly good condition, after setting directly on sandy soil for years. Even the wooden shingles were at least 100 years old and had few leaks.
In 1978 I built the first All Wood Foundation home in Maple Grove MN. The walls were panelized. 3/4" AWF Plywood and 2x6 AWF Treated studs with a treated 2x12 plate on gravel. Studs were 12" on center and this was a split level home, so only 42" of wood in ground. It was a walkout to the rear and the it was on a 48" stub wall buried in gravel. Water proofing consisted of a water based Sonneborn product with poly over and backfilled with gravel. There was a sump basket that drained to daylight. I never saw water in it in the ten years I lived there. The soil was heavy clay. The house had 48" overhangs which helped mitigate water infiltration. The basement floor was concrete. A round 10 years ago a friend that did handyman projects was working on a house. When He described the house I knew it was the one I built. The foundation was doing fine.
The company I work for is actually the original company that panelized your project (guessing). WoodMaster Foundations started doing wood foundations back in the 70's-80s (company name is now Edgebuilder). Still to this day we do 15 wood foundation a year in and around the twin cities. And still to this day, we have not had any major call backs on our warranty we offer with the wood foundations. I will always push for wood foundations when the conditions are acceptable, they are some of the best feeling/warmest basements you can step foot into.
@@cHr1SGify My package came from Lloyd Lumber in Mankato. they also panelized all the main floor framing. In 79 they provided the materials for my parents home.
After watching all the way through I still have a few questions. 1) Are there Radon level concerns for this method? 2) Is the uplift loads comparable to embedded straps? 3) What measures are taken to ensure natural thermal expansion and contraction at the wood exterior where the portion above ground meets a portion below ground?
As a retired cement finisher and was at it since High school, (69 now) I must say that this a great way to build in hard to reach places as you explained. But I believe that good quality concrete work will out last wood by far. Quality work#1. All of this high dollar lumber is not butterflies & little fairies removing the lumber from the earth and milling, treating, transporting etc. either. It has its enviromental issues too. I just like the look and feel of concrete. Plus, no splinters.
You did not mention you are biased due to concrete being your way of living for fifty years. Most concrete companies can't pour a level slab to save their lives today.
The carbon impact of Portland cement is massive. Lumber is not even in the same ballpark. The construction industry accounts for about 10% of global carbon output and almost all of that output is from steel an concrete production. Trees absorb carbon as they grow which helps reduce the impact of lumber.
I don't give a crap about carbon emissions, but if you do the benefit of wood is it's made mostly from CO2. Anytime you build a long lasting structure from wood you're basically storing CO2 from the atmosphere in wood form. Concrete on the other hand produces a ton of CO2 in the manufacturing process, so instead of taking CO2 out of the atmosphere, or ending up carbon neutral, you're adding to it.
When it's this well-built, I think it's better than a shabby concrete basement! Most homes don't have that perfect working drain, dimple mat, fluid seal, and stick on seal.
That framing looks so tight, and I love the engineered studs after working in commercial so long with metal and now residential it takes some attention to keep things straight with wood. Engineered solves that!
When my parents did an addition in Minnesota a couple decades ago they did a wood basement for it. Two doors out. One room actually has a sunken floor for a projector and that room has the sump. It's not had any problems whatsoever.
@@reganlutzko93 well people have wooden boats as well... all tougth they require intense maintrnence. You can easily swin from time to time in wooden pool, as u can swim in natural pond or lake. Differece is do u want to build moldy home and live with in it? It's basic junior high physics that the wooden foundations will gain mold growth, even if foundation walls waterproofing is working. You migth avoid rotten wood an structural failures, but not mold infested indoor air
I'm certainly no expert, but you've definitely opened my eyes to the possibilities. After all, everyone knows that it's the moisture/rot that's the concern with wood, so as long as that is addressed, regardless of above or below ground, then wood should be just fine, right? I will definitely research this further. I am working on a remote mountain house project right now, and the foundation problem has really had me struggling. This definitely deserves a look as a possible alternative to concrete. Thanks again Matt, for another great presentation for a quality building solution.
I am considering wood foundation. I didn't intend to have a basement though....but now rethinking it. Did you do concrete floor...or some sort of wood/truss system?
@@dennisfernau8076 We poured a concrete floor. The wood foundation and concrete are on 10 inches of leveled and compacted pea gravel with drainage tile around the outside perimeter that drains to daylight. This turns the entire underfloor into a drainage plain. We installed the waste line and floor drain in the pea gravel before the basement floor was poured. After the basement was capped we backfilled half way up the walls with pea gravel before finishing with soil. The house is built on a sloping site with fill varying from four to eight feet. It is super sturdy and the driest basement I’ve ever experienced. And so easy to wire and plumb and finish! We’ve three spare bedrooms in that level and because of the slope all have 42x60 windows above grade. With the natural light and quiet it does not feel like a basement.
In Peoria, IL a public housing apartment complex was built with wood foundation 40 years ago. It's still standing so if you can keep it dry and the termites out, it IS viable.
Are there any concerns about termites, or extra steps you’d take to prevent them? I’m guessing you could treat the CDX and LVL’s with Bora-Care and use Stego's 15 mil Pango Wrap/Termite Barrier instead of their regular 15 mil vapor barrier.
Wood underground foundation walls have been around for 50 or more YEARS, including four walls below grade with no windows. Proper DRAINAGE is very important, not the nonsense the building code allows for concrete foundations. In our area, for concrete foundations, drain pipes are installed, with a thin layer of drain rock, and the trench backfilled with the excavated lot soil.
My residential architectural design service has been able to install three PWF homes. My first two in the mid to late 1990's, and another in more recent years. These projects are the most comfortable ground floors of any construction detail.
I own a geodesic dome home in NW IL, near IA and WI… It’s built on a PT wood foundation 2x6, 12” OC. Footings and basement floor are concrete. I gutted the basement 3 years ago, foundation is A-OK. Amazing for a house built in 1981.
There’s a time and place or any time of construction. Does it make sense to the site and betterment for the project. If that’s a yes, awesome. If it’s a no, revisit options. This works for this site. Great work.
I first heard about this method about 20 years ago from an older framer. Very unique and as such have kept my eyes open to it. I have seen some downsides to this, reading some mortgage documents there are some lenders that will not finance a wooden foundation. Worth checking with the lender if you have one before going down this road.
I live in a 40-year-old Dome Home house that uses a PWF. It's in excellent shape. A few walls have a very slight bow, but nothing concerning. We have never had a water issue; it can rain a lot here in IL. It's 2x6 12in on center. If I were to have a house built like this one in the future, I would definitely want 2x8 or 2x10 12in on center. But the general concept is sound!
Nice to see the return of PWF 🙂 With the current "peel & stick" membranes, I think one can use simple exterior grade (CDX) plywood i.o. PT plywood. In the early days, they simply used poly at the outside.
I'm in western washington have done a couple wood foundations even in this wet climate most recent was 5yrs ago on my personal home with a daylight basement. At my house it was just because I can others have been due to difficulty of getting concrete on sight in situations where native ground is freedraining sandy gravel. And no shallow water table...
I've designed several homes using the PWF system in Michigan since the late 90's. All are still structurally sound, dry, and warm throughout our cold winters.
i was working in missoula for a month this summer. i was staying in a neighborhood where almost every house is on wood stemwalls on minimal concrete footers over a 4-5' deep crawlspace. the stemwalls were backfilled with dirt against on the 3/4" cdx exterior. 24" framing. wild to see. i inspected two of these houses and neither showed any significant rot. built circa 1990. no plastic barrier or foam insulation on the outside of the in-ground plywood.
Built my first wood foundation house back in the 80s. I did use a concrete floor back then, but there is 1" of foam board w/poly under that. House is in Minnesota and costs under $20/mo to heat over 2,500 sq. ft..
This is really cool. Like a cheaper version of the steel or fiberglass ground contact panels you showed a couple years ago. The only thing I worry about is what chemicals all that PT is going to be off gassing into the living space beyond what normal sheathing and KD timber would.
I grew up in a wooden foundation and built several of them when my family was still building houses. When I got around to buying a house, I saw one single picture of the basement, but it was clear that it was a wooden foundation and I was immediately interested in that house for my family! Definitely not a new thing, and it would be great to see them being used more so people can see the many benefits of them.
I just experimented with this technique this year on my property. I found a lot of good tables online specing out stud sizing, spacint, back fill height, sheathing thickness, bracing. I was 24' x 28' 2x8 @ 12" o/c Only issue I has was I would have put anchor bolts every 24" or better. Or a bottom plate keyed into my concrete footer.
A good friend of mine has a dad who built a bunch of these foundations in the 80's that are all around my town. The only thing he has mentioned is that the preservatives they used then are dramatically different than the ones they use now so you really can't compare them apples to apples. The forces are obviously the same and doable but the longevity might not be. The positive thing is it would be possible to make smaller repairs
Years ago we did concrete flatwork for Pratt Homes here in the KC Mo.area and they were terrible homes. Bad quality throughout. Would make us put driveways on top of soupy/muddy soil. Wouldn't buy gravel. Tight on rebar and only paid for the cheapest concrete mix. Drywaller's said it was like that for them too. Making them use scrap pieces of drywall from another home but didn't want to pay extra etc. Painters, All trades really. complained. We did our contract and adios. They didn't pay a lot of guys. We got lucky and got ours early on in the last year.
Good to know, I will avoid these people. They sell this because its cheaper and BS you into believing its better when its not. It will rot, guarantee it, only a matter of time.
Don't be fooled, these foundations will rot to some degree. They also hold moisture that feeds mold, don't do it. I'm a home inspector looking at older versions of these from the 70's and they all have water issues to some degree.
We have that crappy bentonite soil - So my cousin had a basement with a wooden subfloor- the concrete floor would have a great chance of being cracked and sections lifting. It did freak me out a little to have a crawlspace in the basement. They also had a sump pump. Think the floor would feel really warmer. It really comes down to trusting the waterproof layer and controlling the water flow--- Like that is is walk out- would want to think about ok what happens if you have a leak from a pipe inside the building - If you made the entire bottom a giant french drain structure- then possibly a plastic layer to help stop damp rising on the area inside the walls. This seems like a perfect opportunity for something like a honeycomb made out of plastic sill pan that would be nailed on to the bottom side of the foundation sill. Then the waterproof peel and stick layer could stick to it on the bottom . Then proper backfilling like you should do with a regular house.
Your making a positive comment about one in many as though they are a good idea. Wood foundations are complete crap and will rot overtime. I've never seen one without questionable area's and that's just what can be seen, what about the other side of the foundation wall that's buried, what does that look like, nobody knows unless you dig it up. Your foundation is the primary component in a home and is not something you want failing at all.
That looks like a very well-built example of a home with a preserved wood foundation... sadly many aren't. My cottage is PWF circa 2002, and it has had all kinds of issues with the footings shifting due to critters burrowing under them, and poor drainage (which I've since corrected). That said, it is definitely more comfortable in the winter than traditional poured concrete. I also work in real estate and I've seen a lot of failing PWF homes from high water tables/poor drainage over the years. Another thing to consider, financing them can be more difficult... If you can afford it, I'd go ICF.
Wood foundations when done right works good. In Florida along the beach or bay a lot of houses are built on huge dock pilings. I like dock pilings, you could easily buy some and just dig 4 to 5 feet down, fill with concrete and have them stick up 2 ft above ground. Those could easily hold up a tiny home or adu.
Designing a Bazcek and Bruton inspired house in Minnesota using PWF. Heat load is 2 to 6 BTUh per sq ft. Warmboard water temps are 75F so the A2WHP will be purring.
My parents and I went on a showing of a wood foundation home in central MN. We didn’t know it at first, but the basement smelled musty and when we found out, we investigated and you could poke your finger through the wall in several places. The realtor said it wasn’t a big deal, but we felt it was. Someone else bought the home. I wonder if they were aware of the wood foundation.
Looked at house that had this exact problem. Built in the early 90s, near lake Minnetonka in Minnesota, we toured and had it inspected in 2023, and the basement foundation walls were full of mold and I would say structurally compromised due to water infilration over the years. Needless to say we passed on buying the house. Maybe this method they are describing in the video (and others who may have found success in the comments here, alot seem to also be in MN) is viable with different soil conditions and waterproofing details, but I question the longevity vs a concrete system.
@@ACDoesIt247 the place we toured is in Zimmerman, MN right near the Sherburne County Wildlife Refuge and Sand Dunes State Park. My childhood home is only a few blocks away and it’s all sand. We had to haul in truck after truck of black dirt for the yard. My parent’s sump has run only one time in their 28 years of living there. Granted, much of the area in the wildlife refuge is marshy and lowland, I always thought the surrounding residential area shad very good drainage, which made our finding all the more surprising. Many of my friends in the area also had bone dry basements (CMU). I think in this case it had to do with a poor or failed exterior envelope around the wood foundation and improper grading to the North of the subject property.
Ground-contact pressure-treated lumber can be used either above ground or in contact with the ground. It Has twice the level of chemical retention and protection compared to above-ground treated wood. Must be used when lumber is less than 6 inches from the ground or has poor ventilation.
Great construction alternative. We will be building a remote cabin and plan on using pressure treated 4x12s for our footer as well as pressure treated 2x’s for the stem wall. It will be much easier than going with a concrete foundation.
30 years on a foundation is nothing to brag about. That and how do you know the buried side is not rotted? Do you periodically dig it up for inspection or just pretend it will be ok?
@@petebusch9069 Actually in the case of the house my father, my brother and I built in the early 90s, yes, yes we have dug it up since. This year we were digging a pit to create the footings for an outdoor lift and even though it was to be a foot and a half away we had to take everything out to the wall due to the granular backfill that would otherwise collapse (it is certainly "fun" pinning back granular backfill). So we got a good look at a 3' section from a corner. You wouldn't know if it had been installed 3 years ago or over 30. With a clear stone base (which takes some work to compact), a sump pit and pump and clear stone backfill, there really isn't anywhere that water sits around for long. And that wasn't the first time we'd dug up a section, either. About a dozen years after the original construction, we made an extension against another section, so that time we had about 12' of one wall and about 3' of another to look at. Same thing then. On that extension we were then able to use drainboard as well as gravel. On another occasion we lifted a section of floor to add in some under-floor return air ducts so we had an opportunity then to take a look at the floor structure. That was super pristine. If it's been built competently, it'll last.
I put on a 900 sq ft addition with a 4 ft deep crawl space,, on concrete footer wood foundation in 1985. Followed that very PWF manual. Then in 1998 added a 200 sq ft room with wood foundation 2 ft crawlspace on a pea gravel footer to add on a 22 x 40 second floor to the original 17 x 27 house.
I have such a basement on the other side of the globe - in Russia.)) The foundation is made of 2x12, the frame is made of 2x8 and the lower concrete slab, 6 inches of insulation. In my climate with a cold five-day period of -39°C and a standard soil freezing depth of 9.5 feet, I have only positive emotions. Design solutions in any technology, not only in PWF, must take into account the peculiarities of local soils and climate and all activities must be carried out without exception and with due quality. In this case, we can safely talk about a guaranteed service life. I used Delta MS Drain as waterproofing instead of 15 mil polyethylene - an excellent result, I still see sawdust on the bottom plate from basement work after 5 years. Written with Google Translate.
I would love to see a sandwich-detail drawing from the subfloor down to the hardpan, including the wall framing with waterproof layers. Like, what is going on at the footer/bottom plate/sheathing joint? What kind of origami is happening with the Stego wrapping those corners? This is so cool, I am very interested in exploring this method.
I live in a house with all wood basement that was built in 1985. Have added a walk out in the basement 10 years ago.. at that time, the wood looked brand new. All it had on it was tarred seams and poly... and back fill with p gravel. Tiled under basement floor. No issues. Warm.. would build another one with no worries....
Wood foundations have been around a long time here in south-central Pennsylvania. H M Stelffer. is a big treating plant, and there's a lot of homes built with wood foundations here. Wish they would go back to that again. The cost savings is tremendous. A lot of homes. Today are poured concrete, which is very expensive.
When he said backyard ADU getting built with a Bobcat, a light went off in my head. I want to build a backyard ADU but I'm worried about cost, technique, and how to get a basement. Having an extra level (on the same footprint) is a game changer for an ADU. An 800 sq foot footprint could become a 3 bedroom home with a basement family room.
I bet the framers love it. Concrete foundations are rarely perfect and it’s common to hear complaints later. I believe in this and really hope it gathers momentum.
My house was built in the early 80s, it has a wood foundation (crawlspace) plywood and 2x6s and fiberglass batt imsulation, what i can see on the outside is looks like they mopped some hot tar onto it as protection. We havve really good drainage here and it is doing alright.... i dont think its perfect, but not nearly as bad as i thought it would be. I also built a cabin off road and not easy to get to. I ended up opting to build 3x3 grid of wodden platforms (properly pressure treated out of ply and 2x10s, buried in gravel (locally sourced dry river bed) used them as a stable platform for 6x6 cribbing and used some local trees to souce the 3 20ish inch round logs as beams to build the floor on top of. Hasnt moved in 10 years! My father in laws concrete piers are all failing. Once mine rot out to needing replacement. I just need to jack the log up an inch or two l, knock he cribbing out, replace the wood platform and set everything back down. My FIL cabin basically needs to be rebuilt because the piers failing caused a cascade effect on the rest of the cabin.
I didn't hear it in the video. Is the UC4B pressure treatment effective against termites. I'm in Texas, IECC climate zone 3A, so termites are a big concern here :)
Totally appreciate this video. Please do more. It happens that I am looking at building an earth sheltered house, and PWC is one consideration. Not a lot out there such as TH-cam that discusses this system. I feel confident that just about anything can be waterproofed. Similar to this that I have considered, is SIP’s such as ICE brand out of Canada. Also, United States Gypsum has a foundation panel that would typically be fastened to steel studs. Looking forward to more from your gang about this.
Waterproofing and drainage are the keys to build in the ground. This type of construction is not for everywhere. Gravity is the best way to arrange for drainage; no worries about loss of electric power during heavy rains or storms.
20 years in my wood foundation house no problems yet. One other good feature is with a wood foundation you don't loose all the basement space framing in to insulate.
I'm a little torn on this. Concrete traditional foundations just seem so permanent when build correctly. on the other hand, I do see how there are many perks to this, would be very freeing to just be able to frame a foundation as opposed to being at the mercy of a foundation contractor. Very interesting stuff (carpenter 23 years)
I grew up in a house built in the 70's using a wood foundation. House was in it's twenties when we moved in and about three months after we moved in we noticed a musty smell that never went away no matter how we tried to control humidity and temps. Wound up selling it five years later for a traditional concrete foundation home. The house is still standing 30yrs later but no idea what shape it's in. Not something I'd use on my next house. My next house, the property is sandy soil on a floodplain (would need a 20ft rise in water, maybe 100yr flood to flood our land) so we're going to do a concrete crawlspace to keep it above ground, but still solid foundation.
You were smelling your house rot with mold. You just could find it without ripping walls open. These foundations are complete crap. Moving was your best option, pat yourself on the back.
I think external rigid rockwool for this would be ideal (and keeping it unfinished) just from an inspectability standpoint, but also might help with bulk water drainage over the wrb. I wonder if the code requires drywall and cavities infilled for fire reasons?
I think this concretless construction raises interesting questions about tradoffs and building longevity. Some quick online research shows buildings in the US have average lifespans of around 50-75 years. If this wood foundation cast last that long it's a win, but it does depend more heavily on proper installation (and maintenance?). I think I would lean more towards simplly building on or above grade using a concrete-free slab, pins, helical piles, or even concrete piles. Our concrete reductions come from eliminating slabs and stem walls.
I have walked in a PWF under construction.have done research,and my home plans are to have Permanent Wood Foundation.The key is proper drainage.will use grace or Henry waterproofing P n S with dimplemat.
It works...been around for a long time. Wood products and waterproofing have improved over the years. Need a skilled framer (the hard part). Still not accepted widely.
It will probably work because of just having three walls underground. I have doubts about it actually being cheaper with all the extra wood and waterproofing. It seems like the main incentive is the co2 from the concrete that could have been used.
I looked into wood a few years ago and could not find an insurer who would accept anything other than concrete, after pricing out DIY ICF vrs direct bury lumber vrs concrete block, the ICF was just easier to deal with.
In our firm, we designed a wood foundation for an addition over 15 years ago, allowed by code in New York, and still is in. Today's code. To this day, it has no problems. I am not so certain about today's treated wood and prefer concrete, even if half wall with stick frame to get a 8ft foundation You should try superior wall... Concrete with steel studs and insulated, the company cranes into place and bolted together. Further there is no footings for the walls as they are installed on compacted gravel.
good to see an open minded builder there are many different ways of doing things (as a boat builder who shakes his head at many std building practices), would help if you detailed the cost benefits for the sceptics, still would love to find an alt for the garage floor?
They don't last, end of story. I'm a home inspector and everyone I've looked at has some degree of visual water damage on the inside, I can only imagine what the buried side looks like. Never buy or build one of these disasters.
Not to undermine the comment that already replied here but there are a lot of positive comments that are testimonials here as to foundations like this lasting well. I grew up in one that is still there today and appears to have not had major repairs done due to the age of landscaping around the home.
@@jake.bruton.aarow.building There are, but there are also a lot failing, the true number we will never know. One thing we do know is concrete will never rot.
Why, do you like mold and rot? Wood and dirt do not mix well and with modern building methods there is no reason for this. I don't think we should even be building below grade anymore, you dig a hole in the ground and will be pumping water out of it for the next forever. Slab on grade is the way to go now.
I don't know about current technology maybe it's better but in my area pressure treating wood has resulted in a super fund sites. How is that better than concrete?
@dreewarren3080 he means that pressure treated wood practices led to ecological disasters necessitating EPA superfunds to clean up and remove toxic chemicals.
They did say it was pressure treated. They also imply that concrete isn’t environmentally friendly. I am saying that pressure treated is worse for the environment. There is no matrix that can prove pressure treated wood is better for the environment like they imply
How would it hold out in a flood? Does it lift up and float away like a boat? Does water rise up from the floor and fill the basement, ensuring equal pressure inside and out? Or is the floor so watertight that the walls must withstand the hydrostatic pressure?
Basement daylights, so as long as you have a drainage plane you don't build up hydrostatic pressure. Of course, if your basement floods from the walk-out doors you have a different problem.
@@patrickkenny2077 Yes, I was talking about a real flood, like the overflow of the Missouri River. Just pointing out a situation for some areas. The house that I grew up in that my father built was flooded with 8 ft of water by Katrina's 30ft storm surge (house is 22ft above sea level). My brother rode it out there and says the water was eye level on the windows while he was walking around inside in ankle deep. The walls and windows held, but then a spot in the floor gave way and water gushed in like a geyser. He had to go to the attic and bust out a vent as an escape route, but the water stop rising at the ceiling. When water receded,, he had to exit out of aluminum casement windows because the doors were swollen shut. Maybe someone in the comments has had a wooden basement flood.
This sounds a bit outlandish, but here are answers. The following applies to buildings in flood plains typically. Please note, concrete and PWF have specific requirements for code, but flooding issues are generally a completely separate issue. PWF hold up about the same. After a flood walls would be stripped if water got in to mitigate damage. This is the same for finished basements with concrete foundation. Unfinished basements are stripped on both already, although the floor would be stripped if decked in PWF and significant water got in. In floods houses don't float, ignoring house boats. PWF wouldn't change that. Even with the ground flooded I've never seen water rise up from the floor, even with dirt floors. A realistic concern is water may rise up from a storm drain if there's no working backup valve. A realistic concern is water could come in at walls where their are holes or gaps, same as concrete, so a PWF has a water barrier applied outside. Concrete often has a water barrier applied outside here. Hydrostatic pressure. I'm humbly not sure if this even applies. If we are talking this much water around the house, there are bigger issues. The house shouldn't be built in such a location at risk without flood prevention measures. Since this issue was common here our communities wouldn't put up with such foolishness. We don't see the high water levels often around buildings. Generally communities take measures to prevent it. Mostly only parks or farmland are built in areas that flood. Buildings need to be built high enough. Low or older farms, cities, and towns have a dikes built around and floodways to divert water away. Sump pumps eject water from around the foundation weeping tile to away from the building. New buildings all seem to have them.
@@viamoiam I live in Florida and never had a basement. I may build in NC and have a walkout. I would never build a house with a full basement, requiring a sump pump to keep it dry. But people do and I hear about them getting flooded by overflowing rivers. In that case, the ground may become saturated and a water tight basement would feel lots of hydrostatic pressure. If water is allowed in, there would be no hydrostatic pressure. So my question was basically is a wooden foundation as strong as a steel re-enforced concrete foundation. Would a homeowner regret his decision to have one if his collapsed while his neighbors concrete one didn't. Houses are not boats, but they float. Our neighbors house had to be removed from our front yard after Katrina. Two days after Katrina I traveled to my mothers house to gut the house. Helped remove lower 2ft of plastered walls at friends house in Orlando a few years ago when the city decided to sacrifice a modest neighborhood by letting their lake overfill by not opening flood gates. I plan to build an ICF house to the roof. It is more DIY friendly with fewer details to get wrong, IMO.
@markstipulkoski1389 concrete foundations have been known to become buoyant and float in areas with high water tables, I'd think this wood foundation would have the same risk there. But that is only a concern when the foundation is surrounded by water and the inside is dry. If it was surrounded and also filled with water, like in a flood, I suspect nothing would happen. The weight of the entire structure would overcome the buoyancy of the wood under water. I don't recall ever seeing wood houses lift up off their foundations and float away during a flood, but I do recall seeing houses flooded up to and over their roofs. I'd expect this to work just like every other wood house that got flooded, it will sit there and not float.
This build is amazing to allow for use of wood for structual comnponents in a building foundation w/o any concrete. My question is why do it? It's a complicated build sequence and specific grade of wood products that I'm assuming has to followed exactly and does, I'm guessing here seem to not be less costly than using concrete for footings and sheer walls below grade. Maybe isolated remote builds where concrete is difficult to use and get to job site. Ray
This definitely has its place, yes very eco conscious concrete is very energy intensive . But I would be super sceptical about building in any kind of wet soil conditions. Water always finds the path of least resistance, any failed seam or gap your done.
I’ve always found the people saying wood basements aren’t a good idea when there’s always multiple concrete basement replacement or fixing company’s in small or medium cities with all sorts of issues
I once did something similar on a smaller scale, think sunken shed.. under the floor, which is concrete squares I used sand, 6 mil ,a couple of low wattage heat cables and under all that a layer of foam.. ..boarded by drain tile. Stacked pt 2x12s with 4x4 studs for sub grade walls all wrapped with 30#, then 2+ layers od 6 mil. The 30# is more sacrifical than functional.. . Everything is sand and drains well anyhow, but i like the extra attention. I don't like good work rotting out just because... ....like that shit used for garage eve's!!
At the very start of this video, I was thinking ," The termites will be eating that house to the rafters in a week." Perhaps I should watch a little longer? Then, " What about water penetration?" Some fellas have all of the confidence in the world.
Yeah mine is 1978, and was the very first wood foundation home where I live in Northern Saskatchewan Canada 🇨🇦. It's still holding strong today, has never leaked, and never had a single issue.
Sitting in a 1987 pwf right now. Wife’s parents had it built, we have concrete footing and a concrete basement floor. 2x8 fdn lumber and 3/4 fdn plywood. Father in law did a roll on asphalt roof sealant and 2 layers of thick black poly before backfill. We live on 70’ of river sand. In 30 years the sump has never had a drop of water in it. We don’t heat or cool the basement and it stays a consistent 66-68 all year. In our neighborhood in Mn here, there are like 5-6 other houses from the late 80s on wood foundations.
I've been building wood foundations in MN for 25 years. Pea rock footings, we did use 2x8 green trt wall framing.
Michigan needs to learn these kinds of things from Minnesota. So close on the map, so far IRL though, with no proper rail network to connect Midwest cities.
I would love to see a video showing this build from the start and not just talking about it after the face, though very interesting. Are there any applications in here to help people fix dirt floor crawl spaces with some of these methods then?
Or even some animations/diagrams would be cool
Another PRO for this method is this is very DIYable. If I was building a house and wanted to do every step from the start, this is way easier.
still seems like cmus would be cheaper. Probably not as fast for a diy though. But special ordered treated ply? I bet that stuff is $100 per sheet. Not to mention the treated dimensional lumber and special fasteners.
What’s difficult about putting up forms and rebar and pouring concrete? Same with ICF
I would say not beginners though. after you've built a house or two. the details in this approach will make or break it.
@@timm439 Not sure If I'm interpreting the question right, but forming a tall concrete wall is one of the most skilled and difficult parts of construction. ICF would be a much much more diy approach
@@95thousandroses I can see maybe the stem walls being wood (with ridiculously good waterproofing and near zero chance of puncture.. they should’ve had dimple mat for reducing hydrostatic pressure), but I’m mainly not understanding a single 2x12 as a footing.. that’s just stupid… no load distribution capability compared with concrete which isn’t hard even DIY.
I designed resort cabins in the rockies with PWF. The main issue was getting concrete to the site. I have also been involved with heavy timber PWF foundation in the Northern Canadian territories where the building is raised above grade to keep the ground frozen. We use heavy timber much like a pad footing and then stand piers and braces on the pads to construct the building above the ground. Wind is allowed to pass under the building.
My grandparents 120+ year old log house was recently demolished. It had an untreated wooden log foundation; and the log wood was in amazingly good condition, after setting directly on sandy soil for years. Even the wooden shingles were at least 100 years old and had few leaks.
In 1978 I built the first All Wood Foundation home in Maple Grove MN. The walls were panelized. 3/4" AWF Plywood and 2x6 AWF Treated studs with a treated 2x12 plate on gravel. Studs were 12" on center and this was a split level home, so only 42" of wood in ground. It was a walkout to the rear and the it was on a 48" stub wall buried in gravel. Water proofing consisted of a water based Sonneborn product with poly over and backfilled with gravel. There was a sump basket that drained to daylight. I never saw water in it in the ten years I lived there. The soil was heavy clay. The house had 48" overhangs which helped mitigate water infiltration. The basement floor was concrete. A round 10 years ago a friend that did handyman projects was working on a house. When He described the house I knew it was the one I built. The foundation was doing fine.
I’m in Maple Grove frequently! It’s changed a lot since’78!
@@koryleach9660this is on Yellowstone west of 101
The company I work for is actually the original company that panelized your project (guessing). WoodMaster Foundations started doing wood foundations back in the 70's-80s (company name is now Edgebuilder). Still to this day we do 15 wood foundation a year in and around the twin cities. And still to this day, we have not had any major call backs on our warranty we offer with the wood foundations. I will always push for wood foundations when the conditions are acceptable, they are some of the best feeling/warmest basements you can step foot into.
@@cHr1SGify My package came from Lloyd Lumber in Mankato. they also panelized all the main floor framing. In 79 they provided the materials for my parents home.
I think I remember this. Where would I have read about it in the last '70s?
After watching all the way through I still have a few questions. 1) Are there Radon level concerns for this method? 2) Is the uplift loads comparable to embedded straps? 3) What measures are taken to ensure natural thermal expansion and contraction at the wood exterior where the portion above ground meets a portion below ground?
As a retired cement finisher and was at it since High school, (69 now) I must say that this a great way to build in hard to reach places as you explained. But I believe that good quality concrete work will out last wood by far. Quality work#1. All of this high dollar lumber is not butterflies & little fairies removing the lumber from the earth and milling, treating, transporting etc. either. It has its enviromental issues too. I just like the look and feel of concrete. Plus, no splinters.
Not to mention all the chemicals in that treated wood
You did not mention you are biased due to concrete being your way of living for fifty years. Most concrete companies can't pour a level slab to save their lives today.
The carbon impact of Portland cement is massive. Lumber is not even in the same ballpark. The construction industry accounts for about 10% of global carbon output and almost all of that output is from steel an concrete production. Trees absorb carbon as they grow which helps reduce the impact of lumber.
I don't give a crap about carbon emissions, but if you do the benefit of wood is it's made mostly from CO2. Anytime you build a long lasting structure from wood you're basically storing CO2 from the atmosphere in wood form. Concrete on the other hand produces a ton of CO2 in the manufacturing process, so instead of taking CO2 out of the atmosphere, or ending up carbon neutral, you're adding to it.
People have been building mud structures for thousands of years that still stand today. Wood will not. End of story.
When it's this well-built, I think it's better than a shabby concrete basement! Most homes don't have that perfect working drain, dimple mat, fluid seal, and stick on seal.
That framing looks so tight, and I love the engineered studs after working in commercial so long with metal and now residential it takes some attention to keep things straight with wood. Engineered solves that!
When my parents did an addition in Minnesota a couple decades ago they did a wood basement for it. Two doors out. One room actually has a sunken floor for a projector and that room has the sump. It's not had any problems whatsoever.
I depends what u think as a problem, for me it would be a problem.
@@Pandomar1 - My buddies dad built a pool out of wood 40 years ago 12 feet deep and its still there in Ohio !
@@reganlutzko93 well people have wooden boats as well... all tougth they require intense maintrnence. You can easily swin from time to time in wooden pool, as u can swim in natural pond or lake. Differece is do u want to build moldy home and live with in it? It's basic junior high physics that the wooden foundations will gain mold growth, even if foundation walls waterproofing is working. You migth avoid rotten wood an structural failures, but not mold infested indoor air
I'm certainly no expert, but you've definitely opened my eyes to the possibilities. After all, everyone knows that it's the moisture/rot that's the concern with wood, so as long as that is addressed, regardless of above or below ground, then wood should be just fine, right?
I will definitely research this further. I am working on a remote mountain house project right now, and the foundation problem has really had me struggling. This definitely deserves a look as a possible alternative to concrete.
Thanks again Matt, for another great presentation for a quality building solution.
The city of Venice, Italy largely rests on a foundation of timbers. Key to any construction type is details of how it's done.
We love our wood foundation in Central Iowa. Warm, quiet, dry. First one built in our local was in early 70’s, still great.
I am considering wood foundation. I didn't intend to have a basement though....but now rethinking it. Did you do concrete floor...or some sort of wood/truss system?
@@dennisfernau8076 We poured a concrete floor. The wood foundation and concrete are on 10 inches of leveled and compacted pea gravel with drainage tile around the outside perimeter that drains to daylight. This turns the entire underfloor into a drainage plain. We installed the waste line and floor drain in the pea gravel before the basement floor was poured. After the basement was capped we backfilled half way up the walls with pea gravel before finishing with soil. The house is built on a sloping site with fill varying from four to eight feet. It is super sturdy and the driest basement I’ve ever experienced. And so easy to wire and plumb and finish! We’ve three spare bedrooms in that level and because of the slope all have 42x60 windows above grade. With the natural light and quiet it does not feel like a basement.
In Peoria, IL a public housing apartment complex was built with wood foundation 40 years ago. It's still standing so if you can keep it dry and the termites out, it IS viable.
Are there any concerns about termites, or extra steps you’d take to prevent them? I’m guessing you could treat the CDX and LVL’s with Bora-Care and use Stego's 15 mil Pango Wrap/Termite Barrier instead of their regular 15 mil vapor barrier.
Termites don’t like foundation grade chemicals
Wood underground foundation walls have been around for 50 or more YEARS, including four walls below grade with no windows. Proper DRAINAGE is very important, not the nonsense the building code allows for concrete foundations. In our area, for concrete foundations, drain pipes are installed, with a thin layer of drain rock, and the trench backfilled with the excavated lot soil.
My residential architectural design service has been able to install three PWF homes. My first two in the mid to late 1990's, and another in more recent years. These projects are the most comfortable ground floors of any construction detail.
I own a geodesic dome home in NW IL, near IA and WI…
It’s built on a PT wood foundation 2x6, 12” OC. Footings and basement floor are concrete. I gutted the basement 3 years ago, foundation is A-OK. Amazing for a house built in 1981.
Lake Le-Aqua-Na?
There’s a time and place or any time of construction. Does it make sense to the site and betterment for the project. If that’s a yes, awesome. If it’s a no, revisit options. This works for this site. Great work.
I first heard about this method about 20 years ago from an older framer. Very unique and as such have kept my eyes open to it. I have seen some downsides to this, reading some mortgage documents there are some lenders that will not finance a wooden foundation. Worth checking with the lender if you have one before going down this road.
I live in a 40-year-old Dome Home house that uses a PWF. It's in excellent shape. A few walls have a very slight bow, but nothing concerning. We have never had a water issue; it can rain a lot here in IL. It's 2x6 12in on center. If I were to have a house built like this one in the future, I would definitely want 2x8 or 2x10 12in on center. But the general concept is sound!
Nice to see the return of PWF 🙂
With the current "peel & stick" membranes, I think one can use simple exterior grade (CDX) plywood i.o. PT plywood. In the early days, they simply used poly at the outside.
I just put an additional on my personal home in the last year with a wood foundation. Liking it so far
I'm in western washington have done a couple wood foundations even in this wet climate most recent was 5yrs ago on my personal home with a daylight basement. At my house it was just because I can others have been due to difficulty of getting concrete on sight in situations where native ground is freedraining sandy gravel. And no shallow water table...
I've designed several homes using the PWF system in Michigan since the late 90's. All are still structurally sound, dry, and warm throughout our cold winters.
i was working in missoula for a month this summer. i was staying in a neighborhood where almost every house is on wood stemwalls on minimal concrete footers over a 4-5' deep crawlspace. the stemwalls were backfilled with dirt against on the 3/4" cdx exterior. 24" framing. wild to see. i inspected two of these houses and neither showed any significant rot. built circa 1990. no plastic barrier or foam insulation on the outside of the in-ground plywood.
We built a home 1992 it was a wood basement and modular home on top . Seen the folks that live there now and they love it.
Built my first wood foundation house back in the 80s. I did use a concrete floor back then, but there is 1" of foam board w/poly under that. House is in Minnesota and costs under $20/mo to heat over 2,500 sq. ft..
To heat to what? Just above freezing? I find that hard to believe, but I have no reason to doubt you.
It will rot and not last the test of time. Sorry to say that but they all do.
Pressure treated isn’t what it was 15 years ago, carpenter bees 🐝 will bore in new 6x6 in 30 day. Lawsuit city
This is really cool. Like a cheaper version of the steel or fiberglass ground contact panels you showed a couple years ago. The only thing I worry about is what chemicals all that PT is going to be off gassing into the living space beyond what normal sheathing and KD timber would.
I grew up in a wooden foundation and built several of them when my family was still building houses. When I got around to buying a house, I saw one single picture of the basement, but it was clear that it was a wooden foundation and I was immediately interested in that house for my family! Definitely not a new thing, and it would be great to see them being used more so people can see the many benefits of them.
I just experimented with this technique this year on my property. I found a lot of good tables online specing out stud sizing, spacint, back fill height, sheathing thickness, bracing.
I was 24' x 28'
2x8 @ 12" o/c
Only issue I has was I would have put anchor bolts every 24" or better. Or a bottom plate keyed into my concrete footer.
A good friend of mine has a dad who built a bunch of these foundations in the 80's that are all around my town. The only thing he has mentioned is that the preservatives they used then are dramatically different than the ones they use now so you really can't compare them apples to apples. The forces are obviously the same and doable but the longevity might not be. The positive thing is it would be possible to make smaller repairs
We built a house with a wood foundation 32 years ago and we live in Canada never had a problem yet, all houses should have one
Pratt homes builder license #1 here in MN still builds primarily wood foundation homes.
Years ago we did concrete flatwork for Pratt Homes here in the KC Mo.area and they were terrible homes. Bad quality throughout. Would make us put driveways on top of soupy/muddy soil. Wouldn't buy gravel. Tight on rebar and only paid for the cheapest concrete mix. Drywaller's said it was like that for them too. Making them use scrap pieces of drywall from another home but didn't want to pay extra etc. Painters, All trades really. complained. We did our contract and adios. They didn't pay a lot of guys. We got lucky and got ours early on in the last year.
Good to know, I will avoid these people. They sell this because its cheaper and BS you into believing its better when its not. It will rot, guarantee it, only a matter of time.
Surprisingly changed my mind. I don't know that it's my cup of tea, but I was impressed
Don't be fooled, these foundations will rot to some degree. They also hold moisture that feeds mold, don't do it. I'm a home inspector looking at older versions of these from the 70's and they all have water issues to some degree.
We have that crappy bentonite soil - So my cousin had a basement with a wooden subfloor- the concrete floor would have a great chance of being cracked and sections lifting. It did freak me out a little to have a crawlspace in the basement. They also had a sump pump. Think the floor would feel really warmer. It really comes down to trusting the waterproof layer and controlling the water flow--- Like that is is walk out- would want to think about ok what happens if you have a leak from a pipe inside the building - If you made the entire bottom a giant french drain structure- then possibly a plastic layer to help stop damp rising on the area inside the walls. This seems like a perfect opportunity for something like a honeycomb made out of plastic sill pan that would be nailed on to the bottom side of the foundation sill. Then the waterproof peel and stick layer could stick to it on the bottom
. Then proper backfilling like you should do with a regular house.
I know someone who has lived with one for 40+ years. They are very happy with it and say its more comfortable than a traditional concrete basement
Your making a positive comment about one in many as though they are a good idea. Wood foundations are complete crap and will rot overtime. I've never seen one without questionable area's and that's just what can be seen, what about the other side of the foundation wall that's buried, what does that look like, nobody knows unless you dig it up. Your foundation is the primary component in a home and is not something you want failing at all.
That looks like a very well-built example of a home with a preserved wood foundation... sadly many aren't. My cottage is PWF circa 2002, and it has had all kinds of issues with the footings shifting due to critters burrowing under them, and poor drainage (which I've since corrected). That said, it is definitely more comfortable in the winter than traditional poured concrete. I also work in real estate and I've seen a lot of failing PWF homes from high water tables/poor drainage over the years. Another thing to consider, financing them can be more difficult... If you can afford it, I'd go ICF.
Wood foundations when done right works good. In Florida along the beach or bay a lot of houses are built on huge dock pilings.
I like dock pilings, you could easily buy some and just dig 4 to 5 feet down, fill with concrete and have them stick up 2 ft above ground. Those could easily hold up a tiny home or adu.
Designing a Bazcek and Bruton inspired house in Minnesota using PWF. Heat load is 2 to 6 BTUh per sq ft. Warmboard water temps are 75F so the A2WHP will be purring.
seen plenty of homes in texas sitting on Bodark stumps. over 100 years old and still standing strong
My parents and I went on a showing of a wood foundation home in central MN. We didn’t know it at first, but the basement smelled musty and when we found out, we investigated and you could poke your finger through the wall in several places. The realtor said it wasn’t a big deal, but we felt it was. Someone else bought the home. I wonder if they were aware of the wood foundation.
Looked at house that had this exact problem. Built in the early 90s, near lake Minnetonka in Minnesota, we toured and had it inspected in 2023, and the basement foundation walls were full of mold and I would say structurally compromised due to water infilration over the years. Needless to say we passed on buying the house.
Maybe this method they are describing in the video (and others who may have found success in the comments here, alot seem to also be in MN) is viable with different soil conditions and waterproofing details, but I question the longevity vs a concrete system.
@@ACDoesIt247 the place we toured is in Zimmerman, MN right near the Sherburne County Wildlife Refuge and Sand Dunes State Park. My childhood home is only a few blocks away and it’s all sand. We had to haul in truck after truck of black dirt for the yard. My parent’s sump has run only one time in their 28 years of living there. Granted, much of the area in the wildlife refuge is marshy and lowland, I always thought the surrounding residential area shad very good drainage, which made our finding all the more surprising. Many of my friends in the area also had bone dry basements (CMU). I think in this case it had to do with a poor or failed exterior envelope around the wood foundation and improper grading to the North of the subject property.
Unfortunately this is what happens to all of them. Wood touching dirt is a horrible idea, pressure treated or not.
Ground-contact pressure-treated lumber can be used either above ground or in contact with the ground. It Has twice the level of chemical retention and protection compared to above-ground treated wood. Must be used when lumber is less than 6 inches from the ground or has poor ventilation.
Great construction alternative. We will be building a remote cabin and plan on using pressure treated 4x12s for our footer as well as pressure treated 2x’s for the stem wall. It will be much easier than going with a concrete foundation.
I got to do a wood foundation back in high school (co-op) more then 30 years ago for a school. Thing is still standing
30 years isn’t exactly long….
@@shawnbradford2243right?
@@shawnbradford2243Tell that to D.R Horton and Rauch Coleman homeowners
30 years on a foundation is nothing to brag about. That and how do you know the buried side is not rotted? Do you periodically dig it up for inspection or just pretend it will be ok?
@@petebusch9069 Actually in the case of the house my father, my brother and I built in the early 90s, yes, yes we have dug it up since. This year we were digging a pit to create the footings for an outdoor lift and even though it was to be a foot and a half away we had to take everything out to the wall due to the granular backfill that would otherwise collapse (it is certainly "fun" pinning back granular backfill). So we got a good look at a 3' section from a corner. You wouldn't know if it had been installed 3 years ago or over 30. With a clear stone base (which takes some work to compact), a sump pit and pump and clear stone backfill, there really isn't anywhere that water sits around for long.
And that wasn't the first time we'd dug up a section, either. About a dozen years after the original construction, we made an extension against another section, so that time we had about 12' of one wall and about 3' of another to look at. Same thing then. On that extension we were then able to use drainboard as well as gravel. On another occasion we lifted a section of floor to add in some under-floor return air ducts so we had an opportunity then to take a look at the floor structure. That was super pristine.
If it's been built competently, it'll last.
I put on a 900 sq ft addition with a 4 ft deep crawl space,, on concrete footer wood foundation in 1985. Followed that very PWF manual. Then in 1998 added a 200 sq ft room with wood foundation 2 ft crawlspace on a pea gravel footer to add on a 22 x 40 second floor to the original 17 x 27 house.
I have such a basement on the other side of the globe - in Russia.)) The foundation is made of 2x12, the frame is made of 2x8 and the lower concrete slab, 6 inches of insulation. In my climate with a cold five-day period of -39°C and a standard soil freezing depth of 9.5 feet, I have only positive emotions.
Design solutions in any technology, not only in PWF, must take into account the peculiarities of local soils and climate and all activities must be carried out without exception and with due quality. In this case, we can safely talk about a guaranteed service life. I used Delta MS Drain as waterproofing instead of 15 mil polyethylene - an excellent result, I still see sawdust on the bottom plate from basement work after 5 years.
Written with Google Translate.
I will give you that there are good reasons. You better get your water proofing details perfect though. One mistake could be very expensive
Fine Homebuilding magazine had an article on wood foundations, I think last year sometime.
I would love to see a sandwich-detail drawing from the subfloor down to the hardpan, including the wall framing with waterproof layers.
Like, what is going on at the footer/bottom plate/sheathing joint?
What kind of origami is happening with the Stego wrapping those corners?
This is so cool, I am very interested in exploring this method.
I live in a house with all wood basement that was built in 1985. Have added a walk out in the basement 10 years ago.. at that time, the wood looked brand new. All it had on it was tarred seams and poly... and back fill with p gravel. Tiled under basement floor. No issues. Warm.. would build another one with no worries....
Wood foundations have been around a long time here in south-central Pennsylvania. H M Stelffer. is a big treating plant, and there's a lot of homes built with wood foundations here. Wish they would go back to that again. The cost savings is tremendous. A lot of homes. Today are poured concrete, which is very expensive.
When he said backyard ADU getting built with a Bobcat, a light went off in my head. I want to build a backyard ADU but I'm worried about cost, technique, and how to get a basement. Having an extra level (on the same footprint) is a game changer for an ADU. An 800 sq foot footprint could become a 3 bedroom home with a basement family room.
I bet the framers love it. Concrete foundations are rarely perfect and it’s common to hear complaints later. I believe in this and really hope it gathers momentum.
My house was built in the early 80s, it has a wood foundation (crawlspace) plywood and 2x6s and fiberglass batt imsulation, what i can see on the outside is looks like they mopped some hot tar onto it as protection. We havve really good drainage here and it is doing alright.... i dont think its perfect, but not nearly as bad as i thought it would be.
I also built a cabin off road and not easy to get to. I ended up opting to build 3x3 grid of wodden platforms (properly pressure treated out of ply and 2x10s, buried in gravel (locally sourced dry river bed) used them as a stable platform for 6x6 cribbing and used some local trees to souce the 3 20ish inch round logs as beams to build the floor on top of. Hasnt moved in 10 years! My father in laws concrete piers are all failing. Once mine rot out to needing replacement. I just need to jack the log up an inch or two l, knock he cribbing out, replace the wood platform and set everything back down. My FIL cabin basically needs to be rebuilt because the piers failing caused a cascade effect on the rest of the cabin.
Saw so many of these in Maine and Minnesota, PWF is a great way to build
I didn't hear it in the video. Is the UC4B pressure treatment effective against termites. I'm in Texas, IECC climate zone 3A, so termites are a big concern here :)
Never heard of this, great stuff, thanks for posting. You're funny, Matt: "Oooonnnnnnnnnnnnnn The Build Show!"
I'm impressed. I love to see new ideas. I wonder how many states/juridistictions will allow this?
Totally appreciate this video. Please do more. It happens that I am looking at building an earth sheltered house, and PWC is one consideration. Not a lot out there such as TH-cam that discusses this system. I feel confident that just about anything can be waterproofed. Similar to this that I have considered, is SIP’s such as ICE brand out of Canada. Also, United States Gypsum has a foundation panel that would typically be fastened to steel studs. Looking forward to more from your gang about this.
Waterproofing and drainage are the keys to build in the ground. This type of construction is not for everywhere. Gravity is the best way to arrange for drainage; no worries about loss of electric power during heavy rains or storms.
Looks like a viable technique that home builders should look at.
20 years in my wood foundation house no problems yet. One other good feature is with a wood foundation you don't loose all the basement space framing in to insulate.
I'm a little torn on this. Concrete traditional foundations just seem so permanent when build correctly. on the other hand, I do see how there are many perks to this, would be very freeing to just be able to frame a foundation as opposed to being at the mercy of a foundation contractor. Very interesting stuff (carpenter 23 years)
Helped build a home with a wooden SIP foundation in the late 90's. No issues to date.
I grew up in a house built in the 70's using a wood foundation. House was in it's twenties when we moved in and about three months after we moved in we noticed a musty smell that never went away no matter how we tried to control humidity and temps. Wound up selling it five years later for a traditional concrete foundation home. The house is still standing 30yrs later but no idea what shape it's in.
Not something I'd use on my next house. My next house, the property is sandy soil on a floodplain (would need a 20ft rise in water, maybe 100yr flood to flood our land) so we're going to do a concrete crawlspace to keep it above ground, but still solid foundation.
You were smelling your house rot with mold. You just could find it without ripping walls open. These foundations are complete crap. Moving was your best option, pat yourself on the back.
Built fully PT foundation in Northern Alberta Canada, 1977
I think external rigid rockwool for this would be ideal (and keeping it unfinished) just from an inspectability standpoint, but also might help with bulk water drainage over the wrb. I wonder if the code requires drywall and cavities infilled for fire reasons?
Yeah, I know I'd feel better with empty stud bays... but I think the typical detail in Canada for example is to simply fill with batts.
Agreed it’s a bit weird I don’t think they referenced external insulation. Would backfilling with stone compress exterior mineral wool?
I think this concretless construction raises interesting questions about tradoffs and building longevity. Some quick online research shows buildings in the US have average lifespans of around 50-75 years. If this wood foundation cast last that long it's a win, but it does depend more heavily on proper installation (and maintenance?). I think I would lean more towards simplly building on or above grade using a concrete-free slab, pins, helical piles, or even concrete piles. Our concrete reductions come from eliminating slabs and stem walls.
I have walked in a PWF under construction.have done research,and my home plans are to have Permanent Wood Foundation.The key is proper drainage.will use grace or Henry waterproofing P n S with dimplemat.
Wood piers were pretty common, so this isn't surprising. But the wood choice is very important. Old growth will do better than what you can get now.
Wow. Interesting. Thank you.
It works...been around for a long time. Wood products and waterproofing have improved over the years. Need a skilled framer (the hard part). Still not accepted widely.
It will probably work because of just having three walls underground. I have doubts about it actually being cheaper with all the extra wood and waterproofing. It seems like the main incentive is the co2 from the concrete that could have been used.
Brad Beals Construction did wood foundations for 40 years in and around Lake Oswego Oregon. Brad was from Minnesota...
I looked into wood a few years ago and could not find an insurer who would accept anything other than concrete, after pricing out DIY ICF vrs direct bury lumber vrs concrete block, the ICF was just easier to deal with.
In our firm, we designed a wood foundation for an addition over 15 years ago, allowed by code in New York, and still is in. Today's code. To this day, it has no problems.
I am not so certain about today's treated wood and prefer concrete, even if half wall with stick frame to get a 8ft foundation
You should try superior wall... Concrete with steel studs and insulated, the company cranes into place and bolted together. Further there is no footings for the walls as they are installed on compacted gravel.
I think wood is fine with all of the products available now days that seal so well as long as they are properly installed.
More details on the interior flooring details
My childhood home in nothern Michigan was bult like this in the mid 80's
good to see an open minded builder there are many different ways of doing things (as a boat builder who shakes his head at many std building practices), would help if you detailed the cost benefits for the sceptics, still would love to find an alt for the garage floor?
I'm curious about the longevity of this kind of foundation.
They don't last, end of story. I'm a home inspector and everyone I've looked at has some degree of visual water damage on the inside, I can only imagine what the buried side looks like. Never buy or build one of these disasters.
Not to undermine the comment that already replied here but there are a lot of positive comments that are testimonials here as to foundations like this lasting well. I grew up in one that is still there today and appears to have not had major repairs done due to the age of landscaping around the home.
@@jake.bruton.aarow.building There are, but there are also a lot failing, the true number we will never know. One thing we do know is concrete will never rot.
Well, at least there's no worry of pyrrhotite.
The site has good drainage which is key.
There is a 1600 sq. ft.house on my street in SW Michigan that has a wood foundation basement - built in the 1980's !
Matt…I would love to see more of this type of building.
Why, do you like mold and rot? Wood and dirt do not mix well and with modern building methods there is no reason for this. I don't think we should even be building below grade anymore, you dig a hole in the ground and will be pumping water out of it for the next forever. Slab on grade is the way to go now.
I don't know about current technology maybe it's better but in my area pressure treating wood has resulted in a super fund sites. How is that better than concrete?
Rewatch the video. Access to site for concrete wasn’t available without high cost. And material they used. Wasnt Home Depot PT lumber.
@dreewarren3080 he means that pressure treated wood practices led to ecological disasters necessitating EPA superfunds to clean up and remove toxic chemicals.
They did say it was pressure treated. They also imply that concrete isn’t environmentally friendly. I am saying that pressure treated is worse for the environment. There is no matrix that can prove pressure treated wood is better for the environment like they imply
Anywhere I could find some details/ drawings for this system?
Wood is good. They all work, but must be done right. Great job.
How would it hold out in a flood? Does it lift up and float away like a boat? Does water rise up from the floor and fill the basement, ensuring equal pressure inside and out? Or is the floor so watertight that the walls must withstand the hydrostatic pressure?
Basement daylights, so as long as you have a drainage plane you don't build up hydrostatic pressure. Of course, if your basement floods from the walk-out doors you have a different problem.
@@patrickkenny2077 Yes, I was talking about a real flood, like the overflow of the Missouri River. Just pointing out a situation for some areas. The house that I grew up in that my father built was flooded with 8 ft of water by Katrina's 30ft storm surge (house is 22ft above sea level). My brother rode it out there and says the water was eye level on the windows while he was walking around inside in ankle deep. The walls and windows held, but then a spot in the floor gave way and water gushed in like a geyser. He had to go to the attic and bust out a vent as an escape route, but the water stop rising at the ceiling. When water receded,, he had to exit out of aluminum casement windows because the doors were swollen shut. Maybe someone in the comments has had a wooden basement flood.
This sounds a bit outlandish, but here are answers. The following applies to buildings in flood plains typically. Please note, concrete and PWF have specific requirements for code, but flooding issues are generally a completely separate issue.
PWF hold up about the same. After a flood walls would be stripped if water got in to mitigate damage. This is the same for finished basements with concrete foundation. Unfinished basements are stripped on both already, although the floor would be stripped if decked in PWF and significant water got in.
In floods houses don't float, ignoring house boats. PWF wouldn't change that.
Even with the ground flooded I've never seen water rise up from the floor, even with dirt floors. A realistic concern is water may rise up from a storm drain if there's no working backup valve. A realistic concern is water could come in at walls where their are holes or gaps, same as concrete, so a PWF has a water barrier applied outside. Concrete often has a water barrier applied outside here.
Hydrostatic pressure. I'm humbly not sure if this even applies. If we are talking this much water around the house, there are bigger issues. The house shouldn't be built in such a location at risk without flood prevention measures. Since this issue was common here our communities wouldn't put up with such foolishness.
We don't see the high water levels often around buildings. Generally communities take measures to prevent it. Mostly only parks or farmland are built in areas that flood. Buildings need to be built high enough. Low or older farms, cities, and towns have a dikes built around and floodways to divert water away.
Sump pumps eject water from around the foundation weeping tile to away from the building. New buildings all seem to have them.
@@viamoiam I live in Florida and never had a basement. I may build in NC and have a walkout. I would never build a house with a full basement, requiring a sump pump to keep it dry. But people do and I hear about them getting flooded by overflowing rivers. In that case, the ground may become saturated and a water tight basement would feel lots of hydrostatic pressure. If water is allowed in, there would be no hydrostatic pressure. So my question was basically is a wooden foundation as strong as a steel re-enforced concrete foundation. Would a homeowner regret his decision to have one if his collapsed while his neighbors concrete one didn't.
Houses are not boats, but they float. Our neighbors house had to be removed from our front yard after Katrina. Two days after Katrina I traveled to my mothers house to gut the house. Helped remove lower 2ft of plastered walls at friends house in Orlando a few years ago when the city decided to sacrifice a modest neighborhood by letting their lake overfill by not opening flood gates. I plan to build an ICF house to the roof. It is more DIY friendly with fewer details to get wrong, IMO.
@markstipulkoski1389 concrete foundations have been known to become buoyant and float in areas with high water tables, I'd think this wood foundation would have the same risk there. But that is only a concern when the foundation is surrounded by water and the inside is dry. If it was surrounded and also filled with water, like in a flood, I suspect nothing would happen. The weight of the entire structure would overcome the buoyancy of the wood under water. I don't recall ever seeing wood houses lift up off their foundations and float away during a flood, but I do recall seeing houses flooded up to and over their roofs. I'd expect this to work just like every other wood house that got flooded, it will sit there and not float.
This build is amazing to allow for use of wood for structual comnponents in a building foundation w/o any concrete. My question is why do it? It's a complicated build sequence and specific grade of wood products that I'm assuming has to followed exactly and does, I'm guessing here seem to not be less costly than using concrete for footings and sheer walls below grade. Maybe isolated remote builds where concrete is difficult to use and get to job site. Ray
This definitely has its place, yes very eco conscious concrete is very energy intensive . But I would be super sceptical about building in any kind of wet soil conditions. Water always finds the path of least resistance, any failed seam or gap your done.
Wondering if you could do this with SIPS panels, would be a cool idea for some well insulated, non concrete foundation walls
They have those... outside sheet of the sandwich is treated
@@GeoffBarnes-l9k good to know, thanks!
Thermapan SIPS . PWF panels. I’ve used their panels for a addition and it worked great. 🇨🇦
I would like to see some more of the details.
I’ve always found the people saying wood basements aren’t a good idea when there’s always multiple concrete basement replacement or fixing company’s in small or medium cities with all sorts of issues
I once did something similar on a smaller scale, think sunken shed.. under the floor, which is concrete squares I used sand, 6 mil ,a couple of low wattage heat cables and under all that a layer of foam.. ..boarded by drain tile.
Stacked pt 2x12s with 4x4 studs for sub grade walls all wrapped with 30#, then 2+ layers od 6 mil. The 30# is more sacrifical than functional.. .
Everything is sand and drains well anyhow, but i like the extra attention. I don't like good work rotting out just because...
....like that shit used for garage eve's!!
Matt what about wind and earthquake resistance without the building anchor to the foundation.
At the very start of this video, I was thinking ," The termites will be eating that house to the rafters in a week." Perhaps I should watch a little longer? Then, " What about water penetration?" Some fellas have all of the confidence in the world.
I like it. I think I would want to layers of the 3/4" plywood though. Other than that it is a great idea!