The potential problem here is that practicing on frc or rv will still be hypercapnic. In fact the urge to breath because of increased CO2 in the bloodstream will make much more challenging to become hypoxic. This type of training is in fact ideal for CO2 tolerance. The best way to isolate hypoxic training and getting used to its effects in the body-mind is by hyperventilating, which decreases significantly the CO2levels on the blood. In this way one overpasses more easily the discomfort, the urge to breath and go straight to hypoxic state. Obviously you don’t want to practice deep dives but in the pool with a buddy keeping a close eye at you should be fine or even a dry training is beneficial to get use to and become familiar with those body-mind reactions from hypoxia without suffering through the gnarling sensations of increased levels of CO2.
Hey man real good content and explaining. I have watched several of your videos. Thanks for doing this. Keep up the awesome work and Cheers from Vancouver, BC
Your first graphic is incorrect. When you practise an Apnea in exhale breath hold the level of CO2(ppCO2) in your alveolar space is higher respect to an Apnea with full breath hold. The exchange between alveolar space and capillar blood is based about a difference of pression and in exhale breath hold this high level of CO2 in alveolar space doesn't facilitate the passage of CO2 from blood to alveolar sacs.
I tested this static with the Oxymiter and the O2 level drops much faster while holding breath on the exhale. So, more effective, probably - more enjoyable, hell no! But will add it to my routine anyway and let you know if I have noticed any significant results in my O2 tolerance training. Thank you
Give it a few weeks (always making sure to stop before you're having contractions. Once you're brain wraps itself around holding on empty.. It get's more comfortable.
Thanks Nathan, I've been doing o2 training for a while now, on and off RV DYN 10 x sets of 50m with 1min - 50 sec recovery. I thrive off going into the urge to breath, otherwise i don't feel like ive trained. Ill try the the RV 8 x 25m laps x 5-10 breath recovery. No urge to breath To gauge where I'm at with your explanation. Thanks for the video. Do you have a video explaining constant DYN Monofin kick VS Kick, Kick Glide ?
Like I said in my above comment.. Give it a few weeks / sessions to get used to it.. The reason 'exhale' triggers urge to breath sooner at first is that you're lung 'stretch receptors' are not used to holding on exhale.. Once they get used to this (with some practice), the 'no urge to breathe' time will quickly increase, and in some cases, actually match no-urge to breathe time on inhale.. Then the value is that you can become very hypoxic (more than you can on inhale), also without any urge to breathe.
Aloha, I been curious about how my breath work is improving and recently bought a pulse oximeter. It’s been really difficult for me to get my o2 levels below 90%(87% the lowest have gotten w/ 5min breathold on inhale). Was hoping to get myself to hypoxic state (more out of curiosity where my limit is) and this last month been trying these exhale breatholds to get there as I figured regular inhale breathold both static and dynamic just build up CO2 for me and I give in to that before hypoxia sets in. With this short description would you assume it’s a lack of co2 tolerance or other factor that needs to be worked on before I actually can/should work on o2? Dig your videos too🤙
Well, I'm not sure I see a problem. If your "lowest" 02 reading was 87% on a PB (5:00), then you SHOULDNT necessarily be trying to beating this on hypoxic training.. TRAINING (hypoxia in this case) works by repetitively reaching sub max levels of something.. so if you can get 5x 90-93% with Empty breath-holds, this would be better O2 trianing than reaching 1x 87% with full lungs holds.. Why, the aim isn't to be able to tolerate 80%.. it should be to create efficiency and reach 5:00 still with 95% (numbers for example purpose only).. (Also, don't read too much into pulse-ox readings, they are often inaccurate due to other factors like vasoconstriction.. you may be getting more hypoxic in RV holds, but early vasoconstriction (which can happen on exhale) maybe traps O2 rich(er) blood in the finger, leading to falsely high readings at the end of the hold(s).
As a second comment, Assumimg all the readings are correct, and at 5:00 you have; (87% SaO2) ( haven't had BO or LMC) (aren't close to LMC) (aren't struggling with recovery or surface protocol).. Probably hypoxic training isn't the most useful to you.. if I had that data and was coaching / programming for you, I'd approach hypoxia as a non-priority, and spend more time trianing that's that are probably more important for you..
There flaws in this model. The discomfort and urge to breath will kick in much earlier as well when practicing RV, for instance. It may come before becoming hypoxic. To isolated in this graphic is an over simplification albeit there is a logic and coherence behind it which is valid to a certain extend
I 'partially' agree with you in the sense that it depends on how well trained someone it. For example I always place proper CO2 tolerance development BEFORE any Hypoxic development (delayed urge to breathe is a pre-requisite). But with the athletes I coach, when add this typeof training into the program after making adequate improvements in CO2 tolerance they are usually able to experience hypoxia to the intended degree with these types of exercises. 2: I would also agree that it would be unlikely to experience LMC or close to levels of Hypoxia without any contractions or strong urge to breathe even on RV.. However, I don't think that good hypoxia training means becoming 'very' Hypoxic. It's better to become slightly Hypoxic over and over, and I think that's possible without any significant urge to breathe (even with somewhat under-developed CO2 tolerance).
@@trainfreediving2772 lots of things to unpack here, the approach needs to be addressed in a more nuanced manner. One thing that I totally agree is to have CO2 tolerance as a prerequisite for such hypoxia training, which was not mentioned in the video. About stronger or milder hypoxia, depends on the purpose we use it. If the intention is to create more lasting adaptions mild hypoxia for prolonged periods of time will better fulfill the purpose. Stronger hypoxia can be like a test. So it’s not possible to train hypoxia without including CO2 tolerance unless one hyperventilates, which is a way to isolate hypoxia at the expensive of removing a fundamental part of the training, but then again depends on the context and overall purpose of the training. RV training for me in incomparable
@@mrcave5750 Again I agree with you that more nuance would be needed to fully explain anything . Anytime I make a public video / post (we haven't focused on TH-cam for a while now) it's more of an 'introduction' to the concept.. not a full breakdown of the entire process since that would take an hour+ to make sure every piece is addressed..
@@trainfreediving2772 thanks for sharing thar. Overall I appreciate your approach as it seems we align in many aspects. In my opinion and experiences the graphic is just wrong and potentially misleading as well. Not the best way to convey your message. Cheers
I have an EQ video about that.. th-cam.com/video/6OEpiad23J0/w-d-xo.html But in short: Up to 50% of your (goal) on FRC: up to a goal of 50m Then up to 20% of your (goal) on RV: Divers training for more than 50m.
The potential problem here is that practicing on frc or rv will still be hypercapnic. In fact the urge to breath because of increased CO2 in the bloodstream will make much more challenging to become hypoxic. This type of training is in fact ideal for CO2 tolerance. The best way to isolate hypoxic training and getting used to its effects in the body-mind is by hyperventilating, which decreases significantly the CO2levels on the blood. In this way one overpasses more easily the discomfort, the urge to breath and go straight to hypoxic state. Obviously you don’t want to practice deep dives but in the pool with a buddy keeping a close eye at you should be fine or even a dry training is beneficial to get use to and become familiar with those body-mind reactions from hypoxia without suffering through the gnarling sensations of increased levels of CO2.
I think what you are describing is the "Wim Hof" method. Yes?
Nice one Nathan: explaining the obvious in an even simpler way.
Hey man real good content and explaining. I have watched several of your videos. Thanks for doing this. Keep up the awesome work and Cheers from Vancouver, BC
Your first graphic is incorrect. When you practise an Apnea in exhale breath hold the level of CO2(ppCO2) in your alveolar space is higher respect to an Apnea with full breath hold. The exchange between alveolar space and capillar blood is based about a difference of pression and in exhale breath hold this high level of CO2 in alveolar space doesn't facilitate the passage of CO2 from blood to alveolar sacs.
Great video. How many times a week do you suggest doing this exercise?
Hello! should you pinch your nose during the breathhold session when doing CO2 table? thanks in advance
I tested this static with the Oxymiter and the O2 level drops much faster while holding breath on the exhale. So, more effective, probably - more enjoyable, hell no! But will add it to my routine anyway and let you know if I have noticed any significant results in my O2 tolerance training. Thank you
Give it a few weeks (always making sure to stop before you're having contractions.
Once you're brain wraps itself around holding on empty.. It get's more comfortable.
Thanks Nathan,
I've been doing o2 training for a while now, on and off
RV DYN
10 x sets of 50m with 1min - 50 sec recovery.
I thrive off going into the urge to breath, otherwise i don't feel like ive trained.
Ill try the the RV 8 x 25m laps x 5-10 breath recovery.
No urge to breath
To gauge where I'm at with your explanation.
Thanks for the video.
Do you have a video explaining constant DYN Monofin kick VS Kick, Kick Glide ?
Breath holding on FRC or RV triggers urge to breath MUCH sooner then on FULL lungs. Therefore I don't see any added value except saving time.
Like I said in my above comment.. Give it a few weeks / sessions to get used to it..
The reason 'exhale' triggers urge to breath sooner at first is that you're lung 'stretch receptors' are not used to holding on exhale..
Once they get used to this (with some practice), the 'no urge to breathe' time will quickly increase, and in some cases, actually match no-urge to breathe time on inhale..
Then the value is that you can become very hypoxic (more than you can on inhale), also without any urge to breathe.
Aloha, I been curious about how my breath work is improving and recently bought a pulse oximeter. It’s been really difficult for me to get my o2 levels below 90%(87% the lowest have gotten w/ 5min breathold on inhale). Was hoping to get myself to hypoxic state (more out of curiosity where my limit is) and this last month been trying these exhale breatholds to get there as I figured regular inhale breathold both static and dynamic just build up CO2 for me and I give in to that before hypoxia sets in. With this short description would you assume it’s a lack of co2 tolerance or other factor that needs to be worked on before I actually can/should work on o2? Dig your videos too🤙
Well, I'm not sure I see a problem. If your "lowest" 02 reading was 87% on a PB (5:00), then you SHOULDNT necessarily be trying to beating this on hypoxic training.. TRAINING (hypoxia in this case) works by repetitively reaching sub max levels of something.. so if you can get 5x 90-93% with Empty breath-holds, this would be better O2 trianing than reaching 1x 87% with full lungs holds.. Why, the aim isn't to be able to tolerate 80%.. it should be to create efficiency and reach 5:00 still with 95% (numbers for example purpose only)..
(Also, don't read too much into pulse-ox readings, they are often inaccurate due to other factors like vasoconstriction.. you may be getting more hypoxic in RV holds, but early vasoconstriction (which can happen on exhale) maybe traps O2 rich(er) blood in the finger, leading to falsely high readings at the end of the hold(s).
As a second comment,
Assumimg all the readings are correct, and at 5:00 you have; (87% SaO2) ( haven't had BO or LMC) (aren't close to LMC) (aren't struggling with recovery or surface protocol)..
Probably hypoxic training isn't the most useful to you.. if I had that data and was coaching / programming for you, I'd approach hypoxia as a non-priority, and spend more time trianing that's that are probably more important for you..
There flaws in this model. The discomfort and urge to breath will kick in much earlier as well when practicing RV, for instance. It may come before becoming hypoxic. To isolated in this graphic is an over simplification albeit there is a logic and coherence behind it which is valid to a certain extend
I 'partially' agree with you in the sense that it depends on how well trained someone it.
For example I always place proper CO2 tolerance development BEFORE any Hypoxic development (delayed urge to breathe is a pre-requisite).
But with the athletes I coach, when add this typeof training into the program after making adequate improvements in CO2 tolerance they are usually able to experience hypoxia to the intended degree with these types of exercises.
2: I would also agree that it would be unlikely to experience LMC or close to levels of Hypoxia without any contractions or strong urge to breathe even on RV..
However, I don't think that good hypoxia training means becoming 'very' Hypoxic. It's better to become slightly Hypoxic over and over, and I think that's possible without any significant urge to breathe (even with somewhat under-developed CO2 tolerance).
@@trainfreediving2772 lots of things to unpack here, the approach needs to be addressed in a more nuanced manner. One thing that I totally agree is to have CO2 tolerance as a prerequisite for such hypoxia training, which was not mentioned in the video.
About stronger or milder hypoxia, depends on the purpose we use it. If the intention is to create more lasting adaptions mild hypoxia for prolonged periods of time will better fulfill the purpose. Stronger hypoxia can be like a test.
So it’s not possible to train hypoxia without including CO2 tolerance unless one hyperventilates, which is a way to isolate hypoxia at the expensive of removing a fundamental part of the training, but then again depends on the context and overall purpose of the training.
RV training for me in incomparable
@@mrcave5750
Again I agree with you that more nuance would be needed to fully explain anything . Anytime I make a public video / post (we haven't focused on TH-cam for a while now) it's more of an 'introduction' to the concept.. not a full breakdown of the entire process since that would take an hour+ to make sure every piece is addressed..
@@trainfreediving2772 thanks for sharing thar. Overall I appreciate your approach as it seems we align in many aspects. In my opinion and experiences the graphic is just wrong and potentially misleading as well. Not the best way to convey your message. Cheers
Hello, depth training with empty lungs can be extremely dangerous (pressure). How many meters max do you recommend?
I have an EQ video about that.. th-cam.com/video/6OEpiad23J0/w-d-xo.html
But in short:
Up to 50% of your (goal) on FRC: up to a goal of 50m
Then up to 20% of your (goal) on RV: Divers training for more than 50m.
Breathholding on FRC or RV? No thanks...😱🤮
It's your choice, but your road to increased depth, distance or time will only be longer.