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@@billusher2265 books that are good game books I’ve read. Mode one by Allan Roger Currie . Models by Mark Manson. The Setup by Dan Bilzerian and Rejection Proof by Jia Jiang. These should help you out.
I listened to JAL and my game completely suffered for it. the guy has sucked all the fun out of the game, and mystery brought it back with his performance approach. JAL just smashed out drunk, lies about literally everything, and his approaches are just quick flash in the pans that go no where and just scare everyone off
You guys along with Strauss started an entire movement and helped millions of men make a better life for themselves. In that round about way you can die saying you changed the world. Bravo and glad to see you two so many years after reading the Game.
Disagree, seduction has improved a lot in the years. These guys are proposing approaches that may work, but are that not very natural and genuine -not for most guys anyways-
THIS is what got me into the scene originally. Masters like this. It's not merely nostalgic, although it is. These guys WERE / ARE better than whats been out there, all the demon spawns that came from them. This felt great.
Having a debate of whether speed seduction is better than Mystery Method is like having a debate as to whether quantum mechanics is better than general relativity. now a unified theory, that would be something.
Ross didn’t understand value. Yes in a moral sense everyone has value, but that doesn’t mean Ross would be equally interested in a supermodel and a female sumo wrestler, it’s about what is valued by the ingrained attraction mechanism.
both men are amazing. I think the main takeaway from this is that Mystery's methods work better for certain environments and situations, and Ross's SS works better in other scenarios. And sometimes you can combine both methods. Ross is a good guy but he came off as sightly nasty and arrogant, and Mystery came off as cordial, sweet, and gentlemanly. Either way, both guys are still A+
lol Ross has always been provocative, he likes to poke the bear and not scared of the repercussions. I find myself like that at times. It’s just being direct without the fluff. But the fluff is sometimes what sells better.
I don't think it matters. Doing pickup is all about picking up, so if one pickup artist can make someone better with girls becasue of what he teaches and he does it faster, that is all we have to measure. I think ross is more about therapy then picking up girls, but I still think he would want to show that he is better at pickup then Mystery.@@ScorpionSuerte
ross is about therapy. which means he has to convince you that you are traumatized, you have to accept that belief, and then the therapy is a hallucination that cements the whole thing.
Fair critique, but I think the difference is art vs science. In a way it's even more performative, but less procedural. He probably should have said it's not a clinical procedure.
@@TC-yx1qt He's probably working overtime trying to think of some new lies to spew about us to cover up how jealous he is or how his business is losing money (His words). drive.google.com/file/d/1p8GuquAaO85Yd0Gulyy_FgUtumdEx9OT/view?usp=drive_link
John Anthony says all PUA's and dating coaches on youtube, which are 100s, are bad except himself. Even if he deems someone as good on the rare occasion it takes a short time before he makes a negative hit piece about them too.
An amateur hopes to find a woman of beauty all by herself so he can approach her while a master pick up artist can successfully open and charm sets/groups.
Ross seems too invested in finding flaws in Mystery's game at all costs which is fine because it allows Mystery to further explain and solidify the reasoning behind his method.
That's something I noticed too. I thought it was a little gem when Mystery told the story about Neil who said, Why are trying to do all this, Just pick up the girl and Mystery said, but no, I've got to understand the sequence. And while I have to say that women and relationships are about as non-linear as it gets and the Mystery Method is sort of trying to find a linear and logical explanation, I still give Mystery kudos for his mind and thinking.
ross was all over the place. he's a therapist, he can fuck a girl in 3 min but then it takes him a month. ross is big time liar. on PWF and JAL he stated 2 vastly different body counts. one was 80, another was over 300.
This is the first I’ve seen of this channel, and I’m subscribing as of now. Mystery and Ross Jeffries are titans in the world of seduction, and are two men who deserve a firm and uncompromising salute from any and every man under the age of 40. Kudos for putting this together!
This came along at precisely the most apropos time for me -- I'm just now turning on to all of this material, literature and videos, at 55. And then these two masters do a very informative video together. So much of what Ross had to say about his students resonates with me. I'm relearning my entire (very limited) understanding of women, dating, and social dynamics very late in life after very few dating experiences and no real relationship history. I'm hoping all of this can help me turn things around 180 while I still have a few years left. God bless Ross and Erik. Please wish me bon chance. 🙂
Fastest close ~100 seconds. 2set. Opener, 1 qualifier, kino, your place or mine. She drove us to her place. Then back to club hours later to meet back up w friends. Circa 2006. Both of yall rock! Those were the days....JUST HAVE FUN,thats why its called a GAME
One thing about Roos he's very intellectual which is a DHV by itself. Women are attracted to man of great knowledge. He can express himself with appropriate words and manners, women love that. But Mystery to me define the game. The attitude to have towards a hot girl. Be interesting not interested, let her want you. She will,.... cause she's totally comfortable in your world, your presence. Convey preselection she'll want to be the one who's with you not the other girl(now you become the prize). Handle your needyness. Make her want you. Don't be too easy for her. It's a good feeling to get the woman that you want, wanting you. You are her own world, she wants nobody else but you. And know you make that happen, there's no better pride and confidence in yourself because of that.💥💥💫
Very well said! I agree, Ross is the more intellectual of these two masters, and speed seduction is a style of pickup that requires more intelligence to be applied successfully. But mystery just defines the whole thing, he actually created the framework that is universal and unavoidable.
Ross is a pioneer on how women respond but Mystery is more practical. And Ross, whether it's telling a story or not, in your own words, I think I heard you said once "I don't care what people say or think they want. I only care what they respond to."
Mystery often agrees with Ross because Ross's smaller frame of thought tends to fit just fine inside Mystery's. But Ross often disagrees with Mystery because his often rigid and narrow-minded view cannot easily accept a larger more flexible frame of thought.
It’s literally the opposite. Mystery is rigidly insisting everything is in his model but Ross is explaining there are things outside the model and he teaches various elements to remain flexible.
@ModernMaleSolutions Well, Saying "I got lots of chicks despite talking stupid crap and dressing like a gay wizard, cuz im tall and handsome" doesnt really sell books. Virgin at 21 and painfully shy? Yeah and im sure all these OF models really care about me.. Its a sales-pitch, always has been.
That’s a good point. Eric has a lot of advantage just in genetics., add some magic tricks and some peacocking and he’s pretty undeniably present, give him a few lines of swagger and he’s golden. Do the same to a 5’5 guy, he’s verbal presentation better be in point. I’d bet Strauss had to act twice as cool to equal Mystery’s presence level
I'll admit, I've kind of eye-rolled a lot of the posts here about different debates, but joined this one because of the legendary status of the two participants. I was curious to see if there was, indeed, any debate at all. I've just finished my very first reading of the original 'The Mystery Method,' just to make sure any of my judgements were based on his actual words and not from third parties. And, although I've been well aware of Ross Jeffries' existence and his standing as the godfather of it all, I've never known much about Jeffries' techniques or strategies. Like much of life, our opinions on pickup will be largely based on what our underlying beliefs are. For example, debate rages in the public about whether abortion is right or wrong. People argue back and forth and never change one another's minds, and it's for a simple reason. The OPINION about abortion is based on an underlying BELIEF about something, in this case, about life. If a person believes that life begins at conception and the fetus is a living breathing human on par with all of the rest of us walking around the earth, then, of course, there will be a natural aversion to ending that life via an abortion. If a person sees the fetus as part of a woman's body, not really capable of meeting the minimum threshhold of being a life of it's own, well then, the person will almost assuredly support the idea that a woman has full agency over her own body and what to do with a fetus inside of her would fall under that agency, rendering the person, most likely, politically pro-choice on the matter. The debate is really not a debate about whether abortion is right or wrong, but moreso an exposition on what one believes about the beginning of life, etc. etc. [I don't give a damn what anyone thinks about abortion, and please don't make this post about that; it's simply a setup to make a point about the Mystery/Ross Jeffries debate.] To my great surprise, Ross and Mystery did actually go at one another and debate and have different viewpoints. But, in the same way that one's opinion on abortion most likely is derived from what they believe about an underlying topic, Jeffries' and Mystery's differences were borne of the same element - a difference of opinion about an underlying topic; two specifically came out in the debate. Mystery believes pickup starts in groups. Group theory IS game to Mystery. "Do not walk up to a girl who's all by herself," Neil Strauss quotes Mystery as saying in 'The Game.' "That is not...seduction. Women of beauty are rarely found alone." He reiterated the same idea multiple times in the debate as well. Mystery, at his core, believes women of beauty are rarely found alone. Of course, we know that one's world will follow what they believe, so, of course, Mystery's world has only ever reaffirmed this belief. As his life has gone along, I'm sure he's become nothing but emboldened in this belief due to his life experiences that seem to confirm it, seemingly over and over. Ross has a different belief and, as a result, different experiences. So, Mystery believes seduction starts in groups, inherently, and Ross believes beautiful women have to go to the grocery store, choose to go to yoga, and the like, and he encounters them there. Mystery encounters his targets out in "the field" which, for him, is synonymous with "bars and clubs." A debate ensued about whether beautiful women can be found alone or not. "Very very rarely," Mystery said. Well, what else would he say? "Oh, I see them alone aaaaaaaalllll the time," Jeffries said. What else would he say? They should've, instead, simply had a conversation about their underlying beliefs. The second main point of disagreement was, not surprisingly, around the concept of value. Mystery believes that our value, at least to women, is our Survival and Replication value. Ross holds that all humans have inherent value as a part of creation, not predicated on their ability to help one survive nor replicate. Of course, the "ideal" way to appeal to women would be different for a person that believed one of these premises compared to what a person who believed differently would find to be the ideal way to meet and attract women. It only stands to reason. The debate should've been, or it simply should've been pointed out that each was correct and had come to reasonable conclusions about what external methods were best based on their internal beliefs about what constitutes value. Of course you'd act differently if you believed women only valued Survival and Replication value than if you believed all men were inherently equally valuable and that women could appreciate and choose to bond with men based simply on their value as a human (the idea that, for whatever it's worth, I find myself much more closely aligned with). The more interesting discussion would've been around how humans SHOULD be valued or why each man thought that his concept of value was the more valid one. That would've revealed some interesting insight. Instead, the two debated on whether showing value and qualifying, etc. etc. was necessary or not. Of course, each was effective for the man practicing his own methods. Why? Because of his own beliefs. IF you believe and see the world the way Jeffries sees the world, you should grab his books, follow his methods, and give them a shot. They will probably work for you. If you believe and see the world the way Mystery sees the world, you should grab his books, follow his methods, and give them a shot. They will probably work for you.
@@dylanb2086 I agree. I have to say I think it stands alone as the most insightful comment in all iw TH-cam history. I don't disagree with your assessment at all.
I agree with Ross and the nightclub scene. Personally, I have met more quality women during the day than in a night club. I find them less defensive during the day than out in clubs/bars, and according to the environment, you can strike some pretty good convo with them, and then get their details for a future meet-up. BUT for short-term relationships or one night stands, you need to be at a night club/bar.
Both had good points, I think Mystery is right about the learning process has to be very practical and tangible, otherwise its hard to get anywhere. With that said, men can’t stay in the ”training wheel” forever, they have to evolve and become the real authentic self. Which Ross is right about in dome areas, however he missing out on the learning structure to actually get things done practically. All in all, as a person who comes from the academic field of communication and behaviourism, both have a lot of wholes in their approach of attracting and dating women. -Mr Silk
The difference is that Ross actually knows how to teach you how to consciously raise your sexual energy and let the presence of this energy lead everything. You wouldn't need phases at all when everything naturally arises from your balls. There's a deep collective unconscious experience that it seems like some of Mystery's students are not aware of or even see the importance for. Some people are naturally aware of this, but like Ross was stressing, everybody would benefit off having that groundwork to become self-learning, having an applicable understanding of that NLP subconscious/unconscious aspect we all share. Mystery uses this of course yet doesn't seem to see the importance of it or teach it or reveal it.
You get it my friend you are the only sane in this comment section, the people going in mystery direction will search for new method in 5-10 years and then they will realise what Ross is actually saying and then go for Ross and Get the transformation they always needed
Ross...come on man. Mystery got proof of work. I have never failed using his algo's, along with Styles. It's like a poor person telling a billionaire how to make money. Mystery-sama is the man. A fucking legend.
I read Mystery Method 20 years ago and have had all the sex with as many women as I could want. Rock solid principles. Ross is stuck in his own definitions and world. He would do well to take some notes from Mystery. Mystery’s principles work 1:1 and day game etc. really well. A LOT of things Ross is talking about are actually parts of Mystery’s teaching but different vocabulary.
host a debate with Karisma King and Alex Social, KK teaches rsd concepts such as open all, state management, hook point, isolation, but Alex Social rejects them despite being formerly in RSD. I really want to see them hash out their reasonings.
I didn't learn a lot about his method, but I did find his recommendation to Meditate insteresting. I don't know that must about NLP and I'm surprised if it works. I am interested in Ross though.
Listned to this full interview a couple days ago. Big fan of Mystery, and would like to know more about Ross Jeffries. To me, the differences started to show between the two when it became clear that Ross didn't like club atmosphere's and Mystery did. This is a major distinction between the two of them. I can remember recently Mystery poo pooing picking girls up off the street instead of a high end clubs and I realized from this interview that was actually kind of of an issue with Mystery, especially when Ross was pointing out that he's trying to help the guy from Podunk Idaho and not just the rich guys living in HollyWood and I give hom major points for that. I give Mystery points for trying more often to find common grrund instead of trying to appear better. Mystery essentially ended the debate saying, why not learn Both styles? And I have to agree. There's value to both approaches and I think they're both worth learning.
Conclusion: If you live or want to live a hollywoodesk life in a big city, then go with mystery. If you are a guy who just wants to learn how to seduce a pretty woman no matter the environment (which is 99% of guys), then Ross's approach is infinitely more helpful. The true measure of a teacher is his ability to teach self-reliance. You ain't getting that in 3 days hanging around mystery and his over the top entourage. Ross points this out several times and mystery's response is that he screens out individuals he believes will disrupt the group - interpret that as you will. I'm not denying mystery's methods work if you happen to attend his bootcamp, but they work in a specific environment ruled by specific social norms - clubs and parties. What happens when you're all by yourself at the grocery store and you see a cute girl? You're gonna conjure up two hot girls around you in order to raise your perceived value? This is where actual game comes into play instead of these cheap easy fixes that you "learn" in 3 days. Nobody learns anything worth learning in only 3 days. You think you're gonna evolve to become a social and seductive man in 3 days? Let's be real for a second here. What mystery sells is a hedonistic experience in one of the most notorious nightlife cities on the planet - be it New York, Toronto, LA, etc. You're gonna get your money's worth for sure, but don't expect much once you go back to your ordinary life - assuming he even accepts ordinary people into his bootcamp. Again, Ross points this out several times. Draw your own conclusions. What I believe is that one guy speaks to 99% of men, while the other is promoting a Hangover fantasy for three days.
Good job Ice more of these high value guests, its clear both realised some holes in their game or 'sticking points' and hence saw the opportunity to collaborate at the end without downplaying their own methods. Bring on Gunswitch and owen/ tyler or whomever adds value
I didn’t see all of it, as I was watching the Euros football final at the same time lol. But something I thought was fascinating, although their methods are different, the commonality they both shared, was that, they both use their immense intelligence, communication and language skills to stimulate girls. Ross calls it SS and uses NLP, Erik calls it A1-A3 or the attraction phase (negging, ioi/iod etc). But essentially, the use of words and communication was the key and there was more of a crossover there, than they both realised. Something I also thought was interesting, Owen C who was students of both of them in the Project Hollywood days and along with the other RSD/SMC coaches has surpassed both of them! Because he tried and incorporated both of what they said, whilst doing a shed load of his own research and study. As I found myself agreeing with bits of what both Ross and Erik said, but that’s only because I’ve watched quite a few RSD digital programmes and been to their free tours, summits etc.
Ross is very tryhard. Impolite, interrupts, force controls the convo, aggressively self promotes, provides mostly anecdotes...a lot of mumbo. But Mystery figured it out long time ago. He gives you the tools to get immediate results and understand the game, then you build on that realization and confidence boost, and you could develop yourself into a demigod throughout the years. He's very underrated due to stigma but he's the godfather of live psychology.
If there is a language barrier Ross's techniques would be very hard to implement .Mystery method does work even without the magic in a basic way . I use Ftc ,neg,qualify ,dhv ,comfort ,close
I would have given a left ball to be in on this conversation. 18 years in New Orleans, French Quarter(2 yrs. street musician, 4 yrs. male stripper, 12 years strip club DJ) studying the human condition i have my own technics based on the fact that women are escape artist and men are adventure seekers and I see everything both Jeffries and Mystery do that I do and did through out the years. but I think I could host a debate like this in a structured way to compare both Jefferies method and Mystery's method side by side apples to apples. Now that being said they're methods are very different but has similarities to compare that both methods can be combined can complement each other. both of these guys are great
Mystery is a Genius but this exposure to Ross with video evidence shows Mystery is not the most empathetic guide and doesn’t seem to understand that not everything needs to be done while in a club or a party situation. Most guys just want to be able to approach a “girl next door” type of girl. Most guys are starting from Zero and it’s much more beneficial to be able to talk to the cute girl at the counter or the cute girl at the library, bus stop, university/school, work, etc. Plus those women are probably the better candidates anyways. Also women will probably find it more romantic and magical if you met in her every day life where she least expects it. The less scripted and more organic the approach the better. (Also Mystery kept cutting Ross off, missing the point, being a contrarian, smart and doesn’t understand NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO BE IN THE CLUBS! 😂)
and yet finding a girl all by herself is like finding a needle in a haystack especially for a newbie who is practicisng. Even if you look at exposure therapy. the more you're expose to a certain situation the easier it gets to overcome the anxiety, gain the confidence and become more competent. There has been countless times when i go for daygame to approach single girls and all i could find is one or two of them in an hour. It can be a waste of time. So i don't think it's a bad idea to go in a public gathering and meet lots of women in a span of time and get better at game, that would help you densitize yourself so when you end up finding a cute girl at a counter, it's easier for you to approach.
I grew up studying every pua under the sun and it was always attraction guys focus on deep inner game, david D'Angelo, wayne elise, etc, and guys who want to get laid, mystery etc. What I found is that sure the mystery method will get you laid HOWEVER, you are gonna be a social robot. It took me a while to learn how to be social after all the canned responses i needed to learn. Only when i stumbled on NLP and some things from thr Art of Charm, did I really start to understand how language works. What Ross is offering (to a degree) is whats called the law of requisite variety. Take two models. NLP in general does not fit into every model (MM etc), but every model fits into NLP. NLP allows one to become a more flexible thinker in general (many paths to the same destination) whereas Mystery Method, you MUST follow the steps specifically (or sequentially) to achieve the outcome. Mystery developed an effective model, that is limited to being effective ONLY as well as you follow the steps. I believe both have good intentions, the skills i continue to learn stem from NLP, in which I feel Mystery could benefit from for himself and his system greatly. Ive learned a lot from both. Theres no finish line w this stuff guys :) its good to zoom out once in a while.
I feel Ross as much as i love him is insecure, he seemed to get defensive and attack comments that differed from his. Still admire both these men in what was a great chat. I feel the Eric handled himself extremely well and has magnificent communication skills which definitely assisted him in his interactions.
Another isolation tactic, mainly from the David Deangelo school of thought which relies heavily on body language, is to wait for the girl to isolate herself for you. Requires a lot of Non-verbal game but can be very powerful.
If Ross avoids bars and night clubs as he says, then he is not even qualified to approve or disapprove of them for the purpose of practicing pick up. WTF LOL
He avoids them because they don't work for his routines. Also his routines are more effective without alcohol. Most bars have a lot of noise and distractions, better to pick a girl up in your daily routines, also cheaper.
@@ppumpkin3282 also high end venues have tons of volume. You can't find an environment that's packed with hot girls between 20-30 outside of nightlife establishments.
@@ppumpkin3282and more practical. The average man , and his clientele of 40s-50s don’t have time to waste in a club. I work 40-70hrs a week, We see hotties in our daily routines of shopping groceries and getting gas, or Home Depot, lol
First of all both of them the best teachers by far -- for my opinion at least - so thanks for that from buttom of my heart for all the years hearing them 🙏💛 Questions To ross : When u staying at a bad country to do pua ( stuck for at least 2 monthes - medical reasons) r u still recommend to go outside and do sets ? is it nececarry for his opinion to work daily on the mindset ( inc. Mindfulnase Meditation ) Is it true girls that look 6 or 7 harder than 9 or 10 ? Is he think they built differently from medium looking girls ? To mistery : In a non high quality invirement - if still wants to aproach : how to overcomes it ( besides storys ,self braggings exc that we alreafy using at ruf top padio ) whats the exfactors i can add to non high qualiity areas ? Besides helsinky barcelona amsterdam and ukraein where he recommend for a good european fields to do pua ? Thanks ! ❤❤❤ eddie.
Love both of the guys! These are the OGs of the Pick Up community. Both have very different styles. I would like to be a master of both methods like Jeet Kune Do
I remember Mystery said he wanted to emulate Zan Perrion, someone who doesn’t go by any of these techniques so to say. It does seem possible Eric and Ross may still be stuck in their current paradigms.
20 minutes in and I'm agreeing with Ross. It's not an excuse.. I hate parties and clubs. He'll I even dislike music. Being 40 in a club where I'm from makes you look silly.
Ross’s entire body of work fits into the gambit section of the Mystery Method. Mystery structures this for the male brain to practically apply, Ross is all over the place. it’s easy to see how this fits together and not make it one or the other. I will say having the structure Mystery provides is much more comprehensively prolific to use vs. anything else.
@@SuperiorityQomplex I never go to clubs actually. only the environments ross was describing and have pleasing results. I like the psyche of what Ross says and the hypnosis aspects of it, but it still is an aspect that fits in MM.
@@upperech3lon ya I do hypnosis/nlp as part of my job anyway, so it's a no brainer for me. But if you don't know what you're doing, MM gives a lot of structure that helps guys learn. Ross' stuff doesn't have the structure, but it's far more useful if you master it. You can trigger emotions at will. Do t need to ask 'Who lies more, men or women?' which comes off less natural as you go. Both work, but I like ross' stuff better.
There’s a structure of emotions that you have to evoke in order for you to make it more natural to the point they want to jump on you! How fast you do this is up to you!!
@@sonbarker8745 I don't think you need any strict structure to trigger emotion. Hell, when I was in grade 8, I picked up a girl by having my puppy with me when I met her. 'oh the cute puppy!' Bam! Emotions triggered! 😉 I mean even the classic, 'oh I really like your X' and then keep walking like it wasn't a pickup attempt, will often have her chasing you..
The reality as someone who's done PUA is it's good to have basic PUA skills but it's not necessary beyond that, stat maxing +interesting lifestyle > PUA. They might be MPUA's but did they cultivate their maximal potential? The answer is no.
Ross was a bit dismissive when Mystery suggested compartmentalizing emotional issues to game, a lot of modern psychology actually agrees with him and recommends just ignoring the negative thoughts and taking action to feel better, PUA unknowingly taught a lot of similarities to CBT
This an epic video with 2 profound views on the matter. Mystery: Reality is like survival in a tribal world. Understanding that and acting upon it will not only getting you laid but will make you a valuable member of humanity. Ross: Women respond to how they emotionaly perceive you. And women not only have emotions (like men) but women tend to have emotions about emotions. This last insight is huge! Thank you legends for sharing your wisdom. You should team-up. God bless you.
1:38:45 Ok Ross has a point there... maybe is not arousal what the teller is causing on the woman, but a deep relaxing feeling and emotional traveling... she might even not listen to the words, but the way the words are being said...
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Is there a way to turn on live chat replay for those of us who can’t watch right now?
what top 4 books do they recommend anyone learning game read
@@millionaaar23
It was already enabled, maybe it wasn't showing when you clicked on because it just ended.
Do you see it?
@@GameGlobalOfficialI’ll check again tonight. Could be since I’m watching on phone. But nevertheless legendary guests!
@@billusher2265 books that are good game books I’ve read.
Mode one by Allan Roger Currie . Models by Mark Manson. The Setup by Dan Bilzerian and Rejection Proof by Jia Jiang. These should help you out.
Ross doesnt want to get interrumped, yet he is interrumpting mystery all the time
and he doesn't want to be mischaracterized, but mischaracterizes everyone all the time
It's apparent that he's trying to out alpha him with attempts to assert dominance over the conversation.
Mystery has got his swagger back. Wow!
I listened to JAL and my game completely suffered for it. the guy has sucked all the fun out of the game, and mystery brought it back with his performance approach. JAL just smashed out drunk, lies about literally everything, and his approaches are just quick flash in the pans that go no where and just scare everyone off
@@businesswalks8301 He's a miserable guy
@@lovedrop4563 you talking about how JAL is completely a loser?
@@businesswalks8301who’s JAL
@@businesswalks8301plenty of juice
2 hours of Ross interrupting Eric but warning Eric not to interrupt him LOL
😂
where did he interrupt him man, rather the other way around. He was respectfull all the way
You guys along with Strauss started an entire movement and helped millions of men make a better life for themselves. In that round about way you can die saying you changed the world. Bravo and glad to see you two so many years after reading the Game.
Omg this debate has been due for decades, good job
Legends. The OG's were so much better, before all the scammers and grifters came in.
@@lovedrop4563 Loooooool, excellent comment.
Are you the legendary Chris Odom?
@@ScorpionSuerte add solid inner game to that
Disagree, seduction has improved a lot in the years.
These guys are proposing approaches that may work, but are that not very natural and genuine -not for most guys anyways-
@@Power_Uni Can you recommend one of the "improved" systems?
THIS is what got me into the scene originally. Masters like this. It's not merely nostalgic, although it is. These guys WERE / ARE better than whats been out there, all the demon spawns that came from them. This felt great.
Epic debate!! Big props to ice for setting this up
Are you going to do a breakdown of debate?
@@wrappedinblack8937
Good idea. Alex would have a very interesting perspective on this now that I think about it.
Dude john anthony lifestyle dropped a ross jeffries fraud video!
@wrappedinblack8937
@@wrappedinblack8937 I thought he was cool with Ross!
Get Ross and Mystery on the speed dates.
We have something here, using Mysteries structure and Ross Jeffries patterns wherever possible can speed things up.
This is the way
U can't merge both ways, because each of them has a different mentality, the mystery method doesn't recommend speed seduction while the other does
Having a debate of whether speed seduction is better than Mystery Method is like having a debate as to whether quantum mechanics is better than general relativity. now a unified theory, that would be something.
Disagree. There's a time and a place for both methods. This talk highlights the limitations of both strategies
Conflict is polarizing; pick a side. No one respects a fence sitter.
All the guys that really know game know they both suck 😂 they're stuck in the dinosaur era
that is the worst analogy I ever heard in my life.
@@MaxEdge-pf3pp unless you're a hot chick and the fence is made of hard. Dicks.
The man who started PUA and the man who popularized it having a convo.
Legendary stuff.
Ross didn’t understand value. Yes in a moral sense everyone has value, but that doesn’t mean Ross would be equally interested in a supermodel and a female sumo wrestler, it’s about what is valued by the ingrained attraction mechanism.
I would have to agree, although it's nice to learn something that is the opposite, as it may appeal to different folks.
both men are amazing. I think the main takeaway from this is that Mystery's methods work better for certain environments and situations, and Ross's SS works better in other scenarios. And sometimes you can combine both methods. Ross is a good guy but he came off as sightly nasty and arrogant, and Mystery came off as cordial, sweet, and gentlemanly. Either way, both guys are still A+
i’ve always thought mystery was for extroverts and ross for introverts. but i agree, both are amazing
lol Ross has always been provocative, he likes to poke the bear and not scared of the repercussions. I find myself like that at times. It’s just being direct without the fluff. But the fluff is sometimes what sells better.
They should make another season of The Pickup Artist. But split the competitors into two teams and have these two as opposing coaches
I don't think it matters. Doing pickup is all about picking up, so if one pickup artist can make someone better with girls becasue of what he teaches and he does it faster, that is all we have to measure. I think ross is more about therapy then picking up girls, but I still think he would want to show that he is better at pickup then Mystery.@@ScorpionSuerte
ross is about therapy. which means he has to convince you that you are traumatized, you have to accept that belief, and then the therapy is a hallucination that cements the whole thing.
ohh hell yeah dude.
and bring in tyler and julien too. they will probably destroy these two at this point. rsd natural game is just soo powerful
@@AM-jx3zf lol nah
I have the greatest respect towards these esteemed gentleman appearing here and to those who are no longer with us.
Holy shit! What a time to be alive.
ross jeffries says its not a performance art. and then does a performance of one his scetches with full pauses and body motions
Fair critique, but I think the difference is art vs science. In a way it's even more performative, but less procedural. He probably should have said it's not a clinical procedure.
@@hiandrewfisher which part of speaking to a woman to get her phone number to have sex with her later is a science?
What a debate and discussion. Congratulations; Game Global to have pull this off
John Anthony is losing his mind 🤣🤣🤣
@@TC-yx1qt
He's probably working overtime trying to think of some new lies to spew about us to cover up how jealous he is or how his business is losing money (His words).
drive.google.com/file/d/1p8GuquAaO85Yd0Gulyy_FgUtumdEx9OT/view?usp=drive_link
John Anthony says all PUA's and dating coaches on youtube, which are 100s, are bad except himself.
Even if he deems someone as good on the rare occasion it takes a short time before he makes a negative hit piece about them too.
John Anthony is just like Papa, worst guy in the industry. Fake and full of shit😂
@@GameGlobalOfficialHe is a crybaby😂😂😂
An amateur hopes to find a woman of beauty all by herself so he can approach her while a master pick up artist can successfully open and charm sets/groups.
Ross seems too invested in finding flaws in Mystery's game at all costs which is fine because it allows Mystery to further explain and solidify the reasoning behind his method.
They were both doing it Ross was just less subtle. Still essentially saying the same thing
That's something I noticed too. I thought it was a little gem when Mystery told the story about Neil who said, Why are trying to do all this, Just pick up the girl and Mystery said, but no, I've got to understand the sequence. And while I have to say that women and relationships are about as non-linear as it gets and the Mystery Method is sort of trying to find a linear and logical explanation, I still give Mystery kudos for his mind and thinking.
ross was all over the place. he's a therapist, he can fuck a girl in 3 min but then it takes him a month. ross is big time liar. on PWF and JAL he stated 2 vastly different body counts. one was 80, another was over 300.
Tell Mystery, RSD Jeffy still waiting for his magician coat that Erik took LOL
This is the first I’ve seen of this channel, and I’m subscribing as of now. Mystery and Ross Jeffries are titans in the world of seduction, and are two men who deserve a firm and uncompromising salute from any and every man under the age of 40. Kudos for putting this together!
under the age of 40? lol why didn't ross book come out in 89? what 10 year olds were reading that?
This came along at precisely the most apropos time for me -- I'm just now turning on to all of this material, literature and videos, at 55. And then these two masters do a very informative video together. So much of what Ross had to say about his students resonates with me. I'm relearning my entire (very limited) understanding of women, dating, and social dynamics very late in life after very few dating experiences and no real relationship history. I'm hoping all of this can help me turn things around 180 while I still have a few years left. God bless Ross and Erik. Please wish me bon chance. 🙂
I was fortunate enough to encounter these men in my late teens - all men under the age of 40 owe these men an enormous debt.
It works the best on a bit older girls like 30-35. I am 21 and started last year. What a crazy experiences I have gotten. Crazy stuff
@@koengreen2540 Those "girls" aren't older for me. 🙂 I'm sure my own experiences will be fairly interesting. Thanks, and God Bless.
Thank you for setting this up
FUN FACT: I MET ROSS 3 TIMES.He was really cool, dude . One day, I would love to meet mystery he really helped me in ways you can't imagine.
Love that this happened.. Jeffries and Mystery are both brilliant men
Is it me or does it look like Mystery is standing with a backpack on the whole time?
Peacocking bro 😁
Fastest close ~100 seconds. 2set. Opener, 1 qualifier, kino, your place or mine. She drove us to her place. Then back to club hours later to meet back up w friends. Circa 2006. Both of yall rock!
Those were the days....JUST HAVE FUN,thats why its called a GAME
Best comment I have seen in a while, and I see some real great comments.
Great debate between the two legends, Mister E and Jeff.
This debate is giving two uncles at the family reunion vibes lol
One thing about Roos he's very intellectual which is a DHV by itself.
Women are attracted to man of great knowledge. He can express himself with appropriate words and manners, women love that.
But Mystery to me define the game. The attitude to have towards a hot girl. Be interesting not interested, let her want you. She will,.... cause she's totally comfortable in your world, your presence. Convey preselection she'll want to be the one who's with you not the other girl(now you become the prize). Handle your needyness. Make her want you. Don't be too easy for her.
It's a good feeling to get the woman that you want, wanting you. You are her own world, she wants nobody else but you. And know you make that happen, there's no better pride and confidence in yourself because of that.💥💥💫
Very well said! I agree, Ross is the more intellectual of these two masters, and speed seduction is a style of pickup that requires more intelligence to be applied successfully. But mystery just defines the whole thing, he actually created the framework that is universal and unavoidable.
I feel like Mystery has turned back the clock this year
Ross is a pioneer on how women respond but Mystery is more practical. And Ross, whether it's telling a story or not, in your own words, I think I heard you said once "I don't care what people say or think they want. I only care what they respond to."
Mystery often agrees with Ross because Ross's smaller frame of thought tends to fit just fine inside Mystery's. But Ross often disagrees with Mystery because his often rigid and narrow-minded view cannot easily accept a larger more flexible frame of thought.
👍🔥
@@heartandmindovercome3214
Good observation.
Power vs Force
It’s literally the opposite. Mystery is rigidly insisting everything is in his model but Ross is explaining there are things outside the model and he teaches various elements to remain flexible.
The collaboration was a great idea. Some eye opening points and wins/losses. Thanks for making it a reality 👍
How does Mystery get all these chicks? He is 6′ 5″ (1.96 m) , Mystery solved.
@@DustMan2704
Yes. Because he is this specific height, vaginas just magically spawn right in front of him. Science, bro.
@@GameGlobalOfficial Yes.
@ModernMaleSolutions Well, Saying "I got lots of chicks despite talking stupid crap and dressing like a gay wizard, cuz im tall and handsome" doesnt really sell books.
Virgin at 21 and painfully shy? Yeah and im sure all these OF models really care about me.. Its a sales-pitch, always has been.
@ModernMaleSolutions Its a sales-pitch . always has been.
That’s a good point. Eric has a lot of advantage just in genetics., add some magic tricks and some peacocking and he’s pretty undeniably present, give him a few lines of swagger and he’s golden. Do the same to a 5’5 guy, he’s verbal presentation better be in point. I’d bet Strauss had to act twice as cool to equal Mystery’s presence level
I'll admit, I've kind of eye-rolled a lot of the posts here about different debates, but joined this one because of the legendary status of the two participants. I was curious to see if there was, indeed, any debate at all.
I've just finished my very first reading of the original 'The Mystery Method,' just to make sure any of my judgements were based on his actual words and not from third parties.
And, although I've been well aware of Ross Jeffries' existence and his standing as the godfather of it all, I've never known much about Jeffries' techniques or strategies.
Like much of life, our opinions on pickup will be largely based on what our underlying beliefs are.
For example, debate rages in the public about whether abortion is right or wrong. People argue back and forth and never change one another's minds, and it's for a simple reason. The OPINION about abortion is based on an underlying BELIEF about something, in this case, about life.
If a person believes that life begins at conception and the fetus is a living breathing human on par with all of the rest of us walking around the earth, then, of course, there will be a natural aversion to ending that life via an abortion.
If a person sees the fetus as part of a woman's body, not really capable of meeting the minimum threshhold of being a life of it's own, well then, the person will almost assuredly support the idea that a woman has full agency over her own body and what to do with a fetus inside of her would fall under that agency, rendering the person, most likely, politically pro-choice on the matter.
The debate is really not a debate about whether abortion is right or wrong, but moreso an exposition on what one believes about the beginning of life, etc. etc. [I don't give a damn what anyone thinks about abortion, and please don't make this post about that; it's simply a setup to make a point about the Mystery/Ross Jeffries debate.]
To my great surprise, Ross and Mystery did actually go at one another and debate and have different viewpoints.
But, in the same way that one's opinion on abortion most likely is derived from what they believe about an underlying topic, Jeffries' and Mystery's differences were borne of the same element - a difference of opinion about an underlying topic; two specifically came out in the debate.
Mystery believes pickup starts in groups. Group theory IS game to Mystery.
"Do not walk up to a girl who's all by herself," Neil Strauss quotes Mystery as saying in 'The Game.' "That is not...seduction. Women of beauty are rarely found alone." He reiterated the same idea multiple times in the debate as well.
Mystery, at his core, believes women of beauty are rarely found alone. Of course, we know that one's world will follow what they believe, so, of course, Mystery's world has only ever reaffirmed this belief. As his life has gone along, I'm sure he's become nothing but emboldened in this belief due to his life experiences that seem to confirm it, seemingly over and over.
Ross has a different belief and, as a result, different experiences.
So, Mystery believes seduction starts in groups, inherently, and Ross believes beautiful women have to go to the grocery store, choose to go to yoga, and the like, and he encounters them there. Mystery encounters his targets out in "the field" which, for him, is synonymous with "bars and clubs."
A debate ensued about whether beautiful women can be found alone or not. "Very very rarely," Mystery said. Well, what else would he say?
"Oh, I see them alone aaaaaaaalllll the time," Jeffries said. What else would he say?
They should've, instead, simply had a conversation about their underlying beliefs.
The second main point of disagreement was, not surprisingly, around the concept of value. Mystery believes that our value, at least to women, is our Survival and Replication value. Ross holds that all humans have inherent value as a part of creation, not predicated on their ability to help one survive nor replicate.
Of course, the "ideal" way to appeal to women would be different for a person that believed one of these premises compared to what a person who believed differently would find to be the ideal way to meet and attract women. It only stands to reason.
The debate should've been, or it simply should've been pointed out that each was correct and had come to reasonable conclusions about what external methods were best based on their internal beliefs about what constitutes value.
Of course you'd act differently if you believed women only valued Survival and Replication value than if you believed all men were inherently equally valuable and that women could appreciate and choose to bond with men based simply on their value as a human (the idea that, for whatever it's worth, I find myself much more closely aligned with).
The more interesting discussion would've been around how humans SHOULD be valued or why each man thought that his concept of value was the more valid one. That would've revealed some interesting insight. Instead, the two debated on whether showing value and qualifying, etc. etc. was necessary or not.
Of course, each was effective for the man practicing his own methods. Why? Because of his own beliefs.
IF you believe and see the world the way Jeffries sees the world, you should grab his books, follow his methods, and give them a shot. They will probably work for you.
If you believe and see the world the way Mystery sees the world, you should grab his books, follow his methods, and give them a shot. They will probably work for you.
This is really brilliant.I have never seen such an insightful youtube comment before, really.
@@dylanb2086 I agree. I have to say I think it stands alone as the most insightful comment in all iw TH-cam history. I don't disagree with your assessment at all.
The best comment in a a TH-cam video EVER!!!
Great feedback man thanks.
@@ZeryuGames agreed. 😉
Beautiful 🔥
I’ll put it like this: if I’m at a bar I’m more mystery. If I’m on a date I’m more Ross. 😂
I agree with Ross and the nightclub scene.
Personally, I have met more quality women during the day than in a night club.
I find them less defensive during the day than out in clubs/bars, and according to the environment, you can strike some pretty good convo with them, and then get their details for a future meet-up.
BUT for short-term relationships or one night stands, you need to be at a night club/bar.
Both had good points, I think Mystery is right about the learning process has to be very practical and tangible, otherwise its hard to get anywhere. With that said, men can’t stay in the ”training wheel” forever, they have to evolve and become the real authentic self. Which Ross is right about in dome areas, however he missing out on the learning structure to actually get things done practically. All in all, as a person who comes from the academic field of communication and behaviourism, both have a lot of wholes in their approach of attracting and dating women. -Mr Silk
15:02 We should have a comedy/satire on DLVs, demonstrations of lower value, this would be so hilarious lol
The difference is that Ross actually knows how to teach you how to consciously raise your sexual energy and let the presence of this energy lead everything. You wouldn't need phases at all when everything naturally arises from your balls.
There's a deep collective unconscious experience that it seems like some of Mystery's students are not aware of or even see the importance for. Some people are naturally aware of this, but like Ross was stressing, everybody would benefit off having that groundwork to become self-learning, having an applicable understanding of that NLP subconscious/unconscious aspect we all share. Mystery uses this of course yet doesn't seem to see the importance of it or teach it or reveal it.
stepo 1 be good looking
Very astute observation. Mystery has real issues with the supernatural
You get it my friend you are the only sane in this comment section, the people going in mystery direction will search for new method in 5-10 years and then they will realise what Ross is actually saying and then go for Ross and Get the transformation they always needed
Ross...come on man. Mystery got proof of work. I have never failed using his algo's, along with Styles. It's like a poor person telling a billionaire how to make money. Mystery-sama is the man. A fucking legend.
Yoooo im def making time to watch this
W GUEST
There are only 3 people in this game...Mystery, Styles and Tyler...maybe even Lovedrop. But that's it.
Best itroduction on podcast style program that ive heared before get guests feeling velcomed good job
I read Mystery Method 20 years ago and have had all the sex with as many women as I could want. Rock solid principles. Ross is stuck in his own definitions and world. He would do well to take some notes from Mystery. Mystery’s principles work 1:1 and day game etc. really well. A LOT of things Ross is talking about are actually parts of Mystery’s teaching but different vocabulary.
Combine these two, and you have raw power!
host a debate with Karisma King and Alex Social, KK teaches rsd concepts such as open all, state management, hook point, isolation, but Alex Social rejects them despite being formerly in RSD. I really want to see them hash out their reasonings.
this ross Jeffries looking to have a full on barking match 😂
Mystery,classy as always, kudos .
Ross is also a genious in his own way.
I didn't learn a lot about his method, but I did find his recommendation to Meditate insteresting. I don't know that must about NLP and I'm surprised if it works. I am interested in Ross though.
is he though? he just rebranded NLP for getting laid. also, he seems spiteful and constantly stopping others from doing to him what he does to them
You are doing God's work, Ice! Thank you for your dedication and passion!
Listned to this full interview a couple days ago. Big fan of Mystery, and would like to know more about Ross Jeffries. To me, the differences started to show between the two when it became clear that Ross didn't like club atmosphere's and Mystery did. This is a major distinction between the two of them. I can remember recently Mystery poo pooing picking girls up off the street instead of a high end clubs and I realized from this interview that was actually kind of of an issue with Mystery, especially when Ross was pointing out that he's trying to help the guy from Podunk Idaho and not just the rich guys living in HollyWood and I give hom major points for that. I give Mystery points for trying more often to find common grrund instead of trying to appear better. Mystery essentially ended the debate saying, why not learn Both styles? And I have to agree. There's value to both approaches and I think they're both worth learning.
Conclusion: If you live or want to live a hollywoodesk life in a big city, then go with mystery. If you are a guy who just wants to learn how to seduce a pretty woman no matter the environment (which is 99% of guys), then Ross's approach is infinitely more helpful. The true measure of a teacher is his ability to teach self-reliance. You ain't getting that in 3 days hanging around mystery and his over the top entourage. Ross points this out several times and mystery's response is that he screens out individuals he believes will disrupt the group - interpret that as you will. I'm not denying mystery's methods work if you happen to attend his bootcamp, but they work in a specific environment ruled by specific social norms - clubs and parties. What happens when you're all by yourself at the grocery store and you see a cute girl? You're gonna conjure up two hot girls around you in order to raise your perceived value? This is where actual game comes into play instead of these cheap easy fixes that you "learn" in 3 days. Nobody learns anything worth learning in only 3 days. You think you're gonna evolve to become a social and seductive man in 3 days? Let's be real for a second here. What mystery sells is a hedonistic experience in one of the most notorious nightlife cities on the planet - be it New York, Toronto, LA, etc. You're gonna get your money's worth for sure, but don't expect much once you go back to your ordinary life - assuming he even accepts ordinary people into his bootcamp. Again, Ross points this out several times. Draw your own conclusions. What I believe is that one guy speaks to 99% of men, while the other is promoting a Hangover fantasy for three days.
Good job Ice more of these high value guests, its clear both realised some holes in their game or 'sticking points' and hence saw the opportunity to collaborate at the end without downplaying their own methods. Bring on Gunswitch and owen/ tyler or whomever adds value
Yes, yes, me too anxious to see Gunwitch in this channel 🤩
I didn’t see all of it, as I was watching the Euros football final at the same time lol. But something I thought was fascinating, although their methods are different, the commonality they both shared, was that, they both use their immense intelligence, communication and language skills to stimulate girls. Ross calls it SS and uses NLP, Erik calls it A1-A3 or the attraction phase (negging, ioi/iod etc). But essentially, the use of words and communication was the key and there was more of a crossover there, than they both realised.
Something I also thought was interesting, Owen C who was students of both of them in the Project Hollywood days and along with the other RSD/SMC coaches has surpassed both of them! Because he tried and incorporated both of what they said, whilst doing a shed load of his own research and study. As I found myself agreeing with bits of what both Ross and Erik said, but that’s only because I’ve watched quite a few RSD digital programmes and been to their free tours, summits etc.
Self point game strong !! You genius Ross Jeffries!!!😂
Cool stuff. Except, if you are a high value male, you don't need all of that. You'll be confident by default, without pretending or double speak.
Ross is very tryhard. Impolite, interrupts, force controls the convo, aggressively self promotes, provides mostly anecdotes...a lot of mumbo. But Mystery figured it out long time ago. He gives you the tools to get immediate results and understand the game, then you build on that realization and confidence boost, and you could develop yourself into a demigod throughout the years. He's very underrated due to stigma but he's the godfather of live psychology.
This is just wow…. It’s like pick up and game grad school.
bro i remember mystery on vh1 in like 02 his show pick up artists lol
Legendary ❤ Thanks to the internet for making it possible
If there is a language barrier Ross's techniques would be very hard to implement .Mystery method does work even without the magic in a basic way . I use Ftc ,neg,qualify ,dhv ,comfort ,close
Mr. Ice you’ve out done yourself once again. You always seem to have the best on your channel. Wonder if you know who will make a video about this.
This is LEGENDARY!
good debate, we need one of Neil Strauss VS these masters pickup artists, it would be something legendary
He gave up game, no longer part of what he does
@@AndresDX1You talk about Neil like he “ain’t got guns … what do you think he sold em all?”
Nothing Ross likes more than the sound of his own voice.
I would have given a left ball to be in on this conversation. 18 years in New Orleans, French Quarter(2 yrs. street musician, 4 yrs. male stripper, 12 years strip club DJ) studying the human condition i have my own technics based on the fact that women are escape artist and men are adventure seekers and I see everything both Jeffries and Mystery do that I do and did through out the years. but I think I could host a debate like this in a structured way to compare both Jefferies method and Mystery's method side by side apples to apples. Now that being said they're methods are very different but has similarities to compare that both methods can be combined can complement each other. both of these guys are great
Mystery is a Genius but this exposure to Ross with video evidence shows Mystery is not the most empathetic guide and doesn’t seem to understand that not everything needs to be done while in a club or a party situation. Most guys just want to be able to approach a “girl next door” type of girl. Most guys are starting from Zero and it’s much more beneficial to be able to talk to the cute girl at the counter or the cute girl at the library, bus stop, university/school, work, etc. Plus those women are probably the better candidates anyways. Also women will probably find it more romantic and magical if you met in her every day life where she least expects it. The less scripted and more organic the approach the better.
(Also Mystery kept cutting Ross off, missing the point, being a contrarian, smart and doesn’t understand NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO BE IN THE CLUBS! 😂)
Good feedback, thanks.
and yet finding a girl all by herself is like finding a needle in a haystack especially for a newbie who is practicisng. Even if you look at exposure therapy. the more you're expose to a certain situation the easier it gets to overcome the anxiety, gain the confidence and become more competent. There has been countless times when i go for daygame to approach single girls and all i could find is one or two of them in an hour. It can be a waste of time. So i don't think it's a bad idea to go in a public gathering and meet lots of women in a span of time and get better at game, that would help you densitize yourself so when you end up finding a cute girl at a counter, it's easier for you to approach.
Keyboard Jockey comment.
I grew up studying every pua under the sun and it was always attraction guys focus on deep inner game, david D'Angelo, wayne elise, etc, and guys who want to get laid, mystery etc. What I found is that sure the mystery method will get you laid HOWEVER, you are gonna be a social robot. It took me a while to learn how to be social after all the canned responses i needed to learn. Only when i stumbled on NLP and some things from thr Art of Charm, did I really start to understand how language works. What Ross is offering (to a degree) is whats called the law of requisite variety. Take two models. NLP in general does not fit into every model (MM etc), but every model fits into NLP. NLP allows one to become a more flexible thinker in general (many paths to the same destination) whereas Mystery Method, you MUST follow the steps specifically (or sequentially) to achieve the outcome. Mystery developed an effective model, that is limited to being effective ONLY as well as you follow the steps.
I believe both have good intentions, the skills i continue to learn stem from NLP, in which I feel Mystery could benefit from for himself and his system greatly. Ive learned a lot from both. Theres no finish line w this stuff guys :) its good to zoom out once in a while.
I feel Ross as much as i love him is insecure, he seemed to get defensive and attack comments that differed from his. Still admire both these men in what was a great chat. I feel the Eric handled himself extremely well and has magnificent communication skills which definitely assisted him in his interactions.
Another isolation tactic, mainly from the David Deangelo school of thought which relies heavily on body language, is to wait for the girl to isolate herself for you. Requires a lot of Non-verbal game but can be very powerful.
If Ross avoids bars and night clubs as he says, then he is not even qualified to approve or disapprove of them for the purpose of practicing pick up. WTF LOL
He avoids them because they don't work for his routines. Also his routines are more effective without alcohol. Most bars have a lot of noise and distractions, better to pick a girl up in your daily routines, also cheaper.
@ppumpkin3282 plenty of people pick up in bars and clubs without alcohol. Most hot girls hardly drink.
@@ppumpkin3282 also high end venues have tons of volume. You can't find an environment that's packed with hot girls between 20-30 outside of nightlife establishments.
@@ppumpkin3282and more practical. The average man , and his clientele of 40s-50s don’t have time to waste in a club. I work 40-70hrs a week, We see hotties in our daily routines of shopping groceries and getting gas, or Home Depot, lol
would have loved to have seen Alan Roger Currie in this debate... if he were still alive
Eric is using shields and swords and paul is using magic, that's the difference
Can you elaborate. I don't understand
This video made my day ❤❤❤
I've try both techniques and the Mystery methods by far has been more successful for me. speed seduction is more complex, however, it has its place.
First of all both of them the best teachers by far -- for my opinion at least - so thanks for that from buttom of my heart for all the years hearing them 🙏💛
Questions
To ross :
When u staying at a bad country to do pua ( stuck for at least 2 monthes - medical reasons) r u still recommend to go outside and do sets ?
is it nececarry for his opinion to work daily on the mindset ( inc. Mindfulnase Meditation )
Is it true girls that look 6 or 7 harder than 9 or 10 ? Is he think they built differently from medium looking girls ?
To mistery :
In a non high quality invirement - if still wants to aproach : how to overcomes it ( besides storys ,self braggings exc that we alreafy using at ruf top padio ) whats the exfactors i can add to non high qualiity areas ?
Besides helsinky barcelona amsterdam and ukraein where he recommend for a good european fields to do pua ?
Thanks ! ❤❤❤ eddie.
Love both of the guys! These are the OGs of the Pick Up community. Both have very different styles. I would like to be a master of both methods like Jeet Kune Do
Mystery is still the GOAT
I remember Mystery said he wanted to emulate Zan Perrion, someone who doesn’t go by any of these techniques so to say. It does seem possible Eric and Ross may still be stuck in their current paradigms.
20 minutes in and I'm agreeing with Ross. It's not an excuse.. I hate parties and clubs. He'll I even dislike music. Being 40 in a club where I'm from makes you look silly.
Two Legends
35:10 laugh = release tension
Ross’s entire body of work fits into the gambit section of the Mystery Method. Mystery structures this for the male brain to practically apply, Ross is all over the place. it’s easy to see how this fits together and not make it one or the other. I will say having the structure Mystery provides is much more comprehensively prolific to use vs. anything else.
@@SuperiorityQomplex I never go to clubs actually. only the environments ross was describing and have pleasing results. I like the psyche of what Ross says and the hypnosis aspects of it, but it still is an aspect that fits in MM.
@@upperech3lon ya I do hypnosis/nlp as part of my job anyway, so it's a no brainer for me. But if you don't know what you're doing, MM gives a lot of structure that helps guys learn. Ross' stuff doesn't have the structure, but it's far more useful if you master it. You can trigger emotions at will. Do t need to ask 'Who lies more, men or women?' which comes off less natural as you go.
Both work, but I like ross' stuff better.
There’s a structure of emotions that you have to evoke in order for you to make it more natural to the point they want to jump on you! How fast you do this is up to you!!
@@sonbarker8745 I don't think you need any strict structure to trigger emotion. Hell, when I was in grade 8, I picked up a girl by having my puppy with me when I met her. 'oh the cute puppy!' Bam! Emotions triggered! 😉
I mean even the classic, 'oh I really like your X' and then keep walking like it wasn't a pickup attempt, will often have her chasing you..
@@SuperiorityQomplex I didn’t say strict. But it is useful to have one . I admit sometimes one thing can trigger all of em together like in your case!
It is definitely true that you can get a girl in like 5 minutes, Julien Blanc was the best at this, to this day imo
Great content
this is my Chomsky v. Foucault
This is a long over due debate but it’s like comparing apples to oranges
Fantastic!
interesting, the only person missing is owen (and maybe todd).
todd? not neil strauss? not david deangelo? but todd? lol no thanks. and all these guys pale in comparison to Hugh Hefner and porn stars
The reality as someone who's done PUA is it's good to have basic PUA skills but it's not necessary beyond that, stat maxing +interesting lifestyle > PUA. They might be MPUA's but did they cultivate their maximal potential? The answer is no.
Ross was a bit dismissive when Mystery suggested compartmentalizing emotional issues to game, a lot of modern psychology actually agrees with him and recommends just ignoring the negative thoughts and taking action to feel better, PUA unknowingly taught a lot of similarities to CBT
Bring Derek Cajun, please!
Sent him a message a while ago because I realized he was local to me. He doesn't check his messages.
Cajun! I love his style! He’s super fast! Would be amazing to see him! 👍
Thanks!
This an epic video with 2 profound views on the matter. Mystery: Reality is like survival in a tribal world. Understanding that and acting upon it will not only getting you laid but will make you a valuable member of humanity. Ross: Women respond to how they emotionaly perceive you. And women not only have emotions (like men) but women tend to have emotions about emotions. This last insight is huge! Thank you legends for sharing your wisdom. You should team-up. God bless you.
1:38:45 Ok Ross has a point there... maybe is not arousal what the teller is causing on the woman, but a deep relaxing feeling and emotional traveling... she might even not listen to the words, but the way the words are being said...