Atari 5200 controller repair Part 1 - fixing two common problems
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- This video's an adjunct to my look at the Atari 5200 itself, but hopefully it's helpful to some. Like most Atari 5200 controllers, mine both broke just sitting on the shelf. The stock controllers are prone to oxidation and will stop working over time whether or not they're ever even used - they will break sitting brand new in a box. In this video, I show you how to take apart, deoxidize, clean and then reassemble a 5200 controller. Doing just these things will fix the vast majority of 5200 controllers.
Unfortunately mine required a little more - a new flex circuit board, which is $2.25 from Best Electronics. But yes, replacing that fixed this controller for me.
Watch part 2 now! • Atari 5200 controller ...
Watch my main video about the 5200: • Atari 5200 - worth buy...
Here's a link to buy Deoxit D5, which I recommend for a bunch of different projects including this one: amzn.to/2pu0Ych
Copper tape if you decide to try that (the smallest size is fine): www.stewmac.com...
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I'd try using a single hole, hole punch on the copper tape just for consistency. :)
Good idea!
In case anyone wants to try it, 1/8" single hole punches (smaller than standard) can be found for ~$4 at hobby/craft stores (Jo-Ann's Fabrics, Michael's, Hobby Lobby, etc) and cheaper online (set of 3 sizes for $3). I can think of a few other uses, which is why I already had one. One use I remember from 2011:
I cut microphone holes in an Alienware M11x Green Onion Supply anti-glare screen protector. They added a 2nd microphone to the M11x r3 for noise cancelling and neither were close to the webcam cutout like the M11x and M11x r2, but the official screen protector was never updated. The screen was otherwise identical so I marked the positions and cleanly punched my own mic holes before applying. Worked like a charm! The original webcam/mic cutout was diamond-shaped for consistency (mic was only on one side) so it just looks like a stylized angular webcam cutout on a stylized angular laptop... nothing weird/vestigial.
You should remove the top bezel prior to pulling the two halves of the controller apart. Any flex circuit with carbon coated contacts is not going to be reliable long-term
+adventurebloc It would be more difficult to do it that way, and I can't see why it would be necessary.
Modern Classic not difficult at all, use a better tool. I use a Wiha chip lifter #268 10P. It gives lots of leverage and doesn't mar or scratch the plastic. removing the bezel first, prevents having to drag the flex circuit out from under once the controller is apart. Just a suggestion.
adventurebloc I use a standard metal spudger frequently used for cellphone and tablet repair. Costs $0.50 and pops it off instantly with no damage! I use two for opening Neogeo AES games and one for opening Atari 5200 games. Just fitting it on the side of a CX52 joystick practically makes it jump off!
Modern Classic There are many different flex circuit materials and some are more delicate than others. Broken traces are common so stressing them like that is not advisable.
Thanks for the tip Emmett, can you tell me which spudger you are using? I'd like to buy a few
So the flex circuits with gold a better buy as in they lost longer then the copper?
+jlindsey241 Theoretically yes. Although I have seen reports from some who bought early runs and still had them go bad. I ended up going with new tin ones just because they're much cheaper and it's actually very easy to replace them if I need to do it again. One gold one is the same price as five tin ones.
ok thanks, ill remember the copper ones the next time my controller stops working!
There is a company now that makes a special paint specifically for the purpose of making old contacts work again and if I recall correctly it's not that expensive
Yes, good point! This stuff worked very well for the 8-Bit-Guy in his PET keyboard restoration th-cam.com/video/uHbhH7ISL_Y/w-d-xo.html
CaiKote or whatever it's called? Yeah, I tried to use that to fix a department store's facility paging system and it didn't work out. Amazon reviews were full of people reporting similar with their attempt to fix old rubber/silicone button membranes remote controls and such.
The membrane buttons in the paging controller's numeric keypad had donut-shaped thin-walled cylinders under each button instead of the usual disc-shaped flat contacts. This meant less surface contact and the cylinder walls would deform when pushed with extra force... the natural user response to a button losing sensitivity. The constant flexing/deforming of the carbon-impregnated rubber membrane would shed carbon and gradually lose conductivity, causing the users to push even harder (jamming a pen into the button) until it was functionally inoperable. When I painted the conductive coating on it worked but the daily users were still conditioned to mash that key extra hard.
Though it would work temporarily the silvery conductive paint stuff would flake right off since it does not deform like the rubber/silicone walls of the contact cylinder and is not impregnated into the rubber/silicone like the carbon once was. The paint flakes would then short the contacts on the key matrix and functionally disable the paging system. I ended up having to redo it over and over while I begged the users to stop pushing the buttons so hard but eventually it became clear that it would happen very quickly even if they were not pushing hard since the membranes were just designed poorly in the first place and the paint is not flexible. I cannot see it working better than conductive tape on a 5200 controller.
Basically, in order to store a stock Atari 5200 controller long-term AND keep it in mint condition, you would have to store that thing in a neutral-atmosphere chamber, such as a chamber filled with argon or some other noble gas (noble gases -- which include argon, neon, xenon, and helium -- don't normally react chemically to anything).
That's not a bad idea but I get it's a joke
Nice video, as usual!
Just at small tip. I had the same problem as you but even after replacing the flex circuit my control didn't work. However fried of mine that is an electrical engineer gave me some help and started to clean the contact between the flex circuit and socket on the control. Now both my controls are working.
Home you understand what I mean despite my bad English.
Sadly I tried that, at least on one controller. I think the contacts on mine are just too dirty/oxidized. But I do think that's probably the problem because on one controller I have 1 and 4 working on the keypad, and on the other I have 2 and 5. But after deoxidizing all contacts, no change. My circuit boards were very loose in the socket too, so I think they're not making good contact and if they're even a little bit oxidized, that's enough to make them not work. Hopefully having a new, 100% clean flex circuit will fix that, but my one worry is that the socket itself is oxidized, so I'm going to try spraying Deoxit in there and plugging/unplugging the old flex circuits a bunch of times to clear it out. Then I'll install the new circuits. Hopefully that will do it.
Just an update - replacing the flex circuit worked! I've only done one so far because I'm thinking about doing a "part 2" video where I just replace the flex circuit and get the second controller working. I know people want to see a satisfying ending, unlike the ending to this video (which will be renamed "part 1" if I do the part 2).
It would be great to see more before/after closeups after cleaning or fixing parts :)
It's a very noticeable difference. Goes from dull grey to shiny silver.
There I was sitting in my Room with my parents showing them off the new 7800 I finally bought after saving my little pay packets and regaling them with stories of my old 5200 and how the system itself still works but the controllers both do not all while my mother is kicking some serious ass in centipede (she apparently used to play it a lot) and now 3 days later this pops up
Coincidence?
all of my 5200 controllers broke due to the flex board cracking and taking a trace out with it, but i no longer have it.
Just bought a lot of atari 5200 consoles, like 10 of them. The consoles all work, but the 20 controllers all have issues. None work fully. Some the side fire buttons dont work, some the character just runs to the right and joystock doesnt do anything. Will your video potential solve the issue with the joystick itself?
In 1982, my Atari T-shirt was covered in my ten year old's tears, dealing with the 5200. One Joystick would fail every 1.5 years. The games, based on Atari home computer technology, were fun, however. WHY ATARI? WHY DO YOU PUNISH CHILDREN? I dont remember NES joysticks dying this fast. Love this throwback video memory.
God that brings back memories. I got my Atari 5200 back in 1982 as an 8 year old. I had to CONSTANTLY take the controllers apart to keep the fire buttons working.
The fire buttons on the sides were always what broke on my controllers. If I still had my system I’d try cleaning the contacts.
Very great video, it helped me repairing my 5200 controllers
Thank You :)
That's a lot of controllers! :P
I mean my Atari 5200 controllers
If you don't want to bother with these temporary fixes, come to me. I have fixed Dozens.
Both controllers are now fixed. But thanks!
This is not a race for comments , although I am 2nd NOTICE MODERNPAI!
Somebody should make a modern replacement ribbon cable for this controller
While conceptually innovative, in practice this has to be the most disastrous attempt to design a controller ever.
I bet these were not even QA'ed in the day, prob rushed out for holiday season sales.
@@glorifiedng The 5200 was the first console I got when I was kid. I have to admit I first thought these controllers were pretty bad-ass looking. And they worked just fine at first.
@@ghostofpambo6266 ya mine too, I think they even had little cheat cards u put in the number pads that told u what each did. Mine died about 2 months in. Or about at the end of the 90 day warranty. Seems like I had to buy new ones for like $40 each... err my parents did.
@@glorifiedng Yup. I still have some of those cheat cards. They did help with some games. The stick part of the controller or whatever you want to call it rotates and I was so disappointed when I discovered it didn't work as a paddle controller.
@@glorifiedng Did the controller actually break or did the buttons just stop working?
Good video, though I do not own an Atari but still nice to learn.
Loll so pretty much the controller is fucked
Hi, I am really hoping to respond to this. you are an amazing channel I am I haven’t stumble upon across you one day and haven’t looked back. I love your content a love your personality behind the camera and I love everything about your channel please keep up the great work! I’m really shocked you don’t have more subscribers! Like I said love the content keep it up!!!
Ah! The nightmare of my summer 1983. I was 13 years old and loved my 5200 but the controllers were junk. I'll never forget trying to keep them running so I could play Defender.
Watching a grown man blow a stick in a basement just made my day :-D
But seriously, almost all the stuff mentioned / shown in the video was / is pretty much (a part of) the routine with these controllers.
My fire buttons would sop working all the time. Think was like 10 when I did this myself.
Do you have any recommendations for sticky (internally) gamepad buttons?
If I don't have the deoxit, would rubbing alcohol work? Thank you
Has anyone in the 5200 community ever tried the equivalent of the "Bob1200XL" keyboard contact repair fix? Basically every 1200XL keyboard eventually fails due to failure at the Mylar edge connector. Bob's fix is to repaint the carbon traces at the keyboard Mylar connector with conductive silver paint or automotive defroster paint. I've done two 1200XL computer keyboards with his fix (3 years ago) and both still work great. Just wondering if anyone has tried that on the 5200 flex circuit edge connector to the controller wiring harness.
It doesn't work well with flexible, moving, contacts despite being sold for repairing remote controls and such.
someone on sell my retro was selling replacements for the circuits, they were made from really thin circuit board with tact switches on, dont if they were any good and probably expensive but worth knowing.
Do you have a link? That sounds like an incredible project!
should try first completing the circuit on the flex circuit with a conductor before replacing.
Replacement is more reliable and costs $2. There is no reason not to do it.
I got my atari 5200 but the front plastic is busted anything I can do to fix it
All you can really do is buy another one for parts and replace that panel. I'm looking to do the same myself - in the process of filming part 2 of this video, I dropped my 5200 and broke the same panel :(
"I don't see why [gold] would be necessary"
It's not just because gold conducts better, it's also because gold is inert and doesn't oxidize like copper, aluminum, etc.
That's true if *everything* you're using is gold. The problem here is that the socket contacts inside the controller are still tin. So then you've got gold on tin at the worst possible choke point. There are just as many reports around the net of people with the gold flex circuits having them fail as the tin ones (among those who replaced their flex boards), and I'm sure that's why.
Best Electronics seems to sell basically everything for these controllers *but* a socket with gold plated contacts. That's going to remain a big weak point, and it might even be worse with gold on tin than tin on tin.
Modern Classic Reminds me of when Scott Mueller's Upgrading and Repairing PC's 12th Edition had to revise the recommendation for RAM modules to say that you wanted to match the material used in your particular motherboard's RAM sockets. That was in the '90s so they're probably on the umpteenth edition these days.
That said, if gold is truly inert then it should continue to be a better connection even after the tin oxidizes unless it somehow promotes oxidation with the tin due to dissimilar metals. I would expect the same issue with copper on tin, especially because copper oxidizes. I suspect that the carbon from the rubber pads breaks down, coats the contacts, and actually makes connections across the contacts of various resistance levels (being matrixed makes it difficult to tell). This is what happens with conductive paint in nearly any rubber/carbon membrane I use it for, even when it's specifically sold for that purpose. Rubber flexes, paint flakes, flakes short contacts. If the same thing happens with carbon/rubber dust then it may explain why gold membranes alone do not fully solve the problem or why they didn't just add a little dielectric grease to reduce oxidation.
OK, I've spent days working on several of these controllers and I'm pretty sure that the carbon pads on the old ones are the primary issue with the buttons. They simply aren't completing the circuits after some amount of use, even when cleaned or improved with DeoxIT/dielectric. My guess is that only the thinnest portion of the rubber surface is involved. Perhaps they didn't impregnate the carbon deep enough into the rubber or perhaps all the carbon close to the surface comes out as dust, leaving increasingly less-conductive rubber. The Rev 9 flexible mylar PCBs switched to carbon traces and these are considered the best, but they aren't subject to the same forces as the carbon inside of elastic rubber that gets repeatedly compressed and expanded (Mylar under contact pressure? Yes. Mylar being squashed and stretched? No.).
My primary issue has been with BRAND NEW pots that are WAY out of spec (~350k ohm max instead of 500k ohm max). Even the worst junk controllers with Japanese pots still have good pots but the "CTS" pots are always ruined, even fresh out of the box (I have a NOS case of four). Atari just couldn't get it right!
At 5:20 you say that we can use Deox-It on the rubber membrane carbon contacts. I used a cotton swab to apply it back in May and my whole membrane curled and deformed from the fumes. It wasn't bad enough to ruin it but that's probably because I quickly put it back in the shell and sandwiched it before it got too bad. Be careful! It's fine on the plastic and mylar membrane but NOT on the rubber membrane!
It sounds like you used too much. You're not actually putting it on the rubber membrane, you're just putting it on the carbon contacts. And you never spray directly onto rubber - I'm not sure if I said this or not, but I spray onto a cotton swab and then use that only on the contacts.
Modern Classic I applied with a cotton swab to the carbon-impregnated parts, same as you. I mentioned that it seemed like fumes were affecting the surrounding area specifically because there was no direct contact with the rest of the rubber. I probably would not have noticed if I applied it with the numeric buttons mounted inside the top shell because the plastic ribs would have kept it from curling up as much and it would have set in a flatter position once the fumes dissipated but the effect was clear when it curled outside of the shell.
Hmmm, well I'm not sure what the difference was between mine and yours in that case... but my membranes are both still perfect. I had to take them out again to finally finish the refurbishment (there's a part 2 video now) and they were the same as always. Still flat and flexible.
Modern Classic Well, that's because you used Windex while suggesting that we could also use DeoxIT. ;) My relevant experience was from right around when this video was made and I incorporated parts of it into my own recommendations (in particular, copper tape > foil tape). Just realized that it needed a very minor correction. Hope it helps.
Dat TV jack is a problem with the system as well, isn't it? Doesn't it hook into the power supply?
+infinitecanadian on the 4 port model, not the 2 port that I have.
Oh, I see. I remember James Rolfe from Cinemassacre being surprised at how the TV jack was hooked up in the 4 port model. Impossible to justify.
What are phone buttons are for? I had the 2600 when I was like 5 yrs old.
in game functions.
One big reason was to enable home console ports of more complicated Atari 8-bit home computer games which were intended for a computer with a full keyboard. The 5200 had the same base hardware inside as a 400, 800, 1200XL, or 800XL which made porting software negligible. Star Raiders is a good example. The 2600 version required a special keyboard controller (bundled/included) but the 5200 version just had an overlay tucked into the back of the cartridge that you would install over the standard controller's numeric keypad.
It wasn't just computer ports like Star Raiders. 5200 game cartridges typically included controller overlays for the numeric keypad and multiplayer games often included one for each player. When you wanted to play a game you'd remove the overlay(s) from the cartridge and install them over the numeric keypad(s). Overlays often hid unused keys and relabled a few for in-game functions. Games like 5200 Frogger created a D-Pad arrangement for playing the game without the analog stick. Obviously, this didn't catch on, but it was definitely used a lot for the 5200. Nearly every official game included an overlay.
There's also aluminum tape (it's for high temp stuff) that is probably a lot cheaper than copper tape.
Copper tape is like $5 a roll. And the important thing is that it has conductive adhesive, which is unusual (especially because it's not usually desirable).
Some 2000 grit sandpaper works great for cleaning that oxidation off