@@michaela4228 funny thing is there is the rng of temperature, altitude and all that at championships around the world. There's one velodrome where basically all track cycling world records are set because of the perfect altitude where there is a mix of less dense air but also enough to breathe efficiently it's crazy
I can totally account for "Not wanting to be worse than that guy" Because in the 5th grade I physically hurt myself running just because I didn't want to lose to the guy so badly that I ran myself ragged. I can happily say that I ran faster and longer than that kid, screw you Cameron
Imagine Gordon Ramsay saying "my food is crap, it could be better" or Michael Phelps saying "I shouldn't have smoked before the competition, I was one millisecond slower."
@@wrestlinghe2638 Who calls himself talented tho :DDDDD I mean its fine to have an ego, and to be proud of yourself and your work but there is a line you should not cross. No one cares if a world famous artist calls himself a really talented amazing artist but that is because its obviously true most of the time people like this are just overconfident. It's fine to have a big ego if you actually sell a shit ton of paintings for example or won some awards and no one but idiots will dislike you for it, but its different if the only ones buying your paintings are your mom and grandma.
As an artist I relate a lot to this mentality. While art is subjective it still has enough fundamentals for any average person to recognize "good" art, which is why when a clearly great artist tears their own work apart and says, "this hand sucks", or, "this could've looked better", it sounds ridiculous to people who either don't draw or consider themselves of a lower skill. We're constantly striving to improve our current selves which means no matter how good we are, the goal isn't even close to being reached lol
yah even artist think there artwork is bad, ive had some friends paint a part of a mural for school and say its bad and then you look at it and its godlike...ive always drawn alot of things and i could never think of one time where i never said "this part of the drawing sucks" even though there wasnt even anything wrong with it
Obligatory "not a speedrunner", but it's bizarre how closely I feel about this. I've always lived with the ideology that "I never want to be happy because once I am, what else is there to aspire to?". People often feel strange about that sentiment, which in turn, made me doubt if I should feel that way. But in no moment am I ever saying that "I'll never be content". This video put that into a better perspective for me and allowed me to understand my own feelings better. That being said, I also feel like while getting into the mindset of "this run sucks" is a psychological aid to not heighten expectations and therefore disappointment, it seems like a double-edged sword. I wonder how many runners internalize that thought, especially those who say it more often, to the point where, run after run, on and off stream, they might begin to think that... Every run they do sucks. This is not only untrue, but it's unfair to them and may take a toll on their mental health. You guys put in so much work to develop your abilities and techniques that bring entertainment and awe to so many people. This isn't to say that you're not allowed to criticize your own abilities or your runs. In fact, I think it's healthy to do so, to see where you can improve and keep egos in check, as Trey said. But pat yourself on the back for things you do right as well, every once in a while. "Moderation" is the keyword here, I think. Thanks for the great video Trey, and for the insight into the mindset of a runner. Love what you guys do!
I actually have a similar but different mindset. I've always been in the position to find things I am happy about and share my self-found happiness with other people to see if they get happy and in turn, get happy by having given other people happiness. It's a self-sustaining form of happiness, because there always will be things in life to discover that will make me happy. I never want to be happy with everything in my life at the same time untill I die, but having small nuggets of happiness spread over time that I can share with other people who in turn let that nugget grow a bit for me is great. In short, I do understand the fear of not being able to find more happiness, but I've learned a long time ago that fearing something your entire life is worse than having that fear come true. If the fear comes true, you'll have to learn to improvise to beat the situation and get out stronger, if you remain in fear, you're just locked behind a wall. You can always go back if you crossed the line, but if you never cross the line in the first place, you'll never know whats on the other side.
I find, that this is a different sort of contentment: You are Content with the journey, the movement, the motion, its not being content with where you're at, but being content with the motion.
"You strike me as a woman who has never been satisfied." "I'm sure I don't know what you mean, you forget yourself." "You're like me, I'm never satisfied." "Is that right?" "I have never been satisfied."
i think that every error in a speedrun is crucial so if they blame themself its nothing to worry about i mean tryharding on a game to reach an objective failing and failing is stressful as hell especially when you put also days for just a run
Ty for making this. I've been getting so many "why does he say the run is bad" comments that I've considered addressing/explaining it in a video myself lol. GG another great vid
As the head priest in the church of "Mentality is Everything in Speedrunning," I approve this message. Seriously, though. A healthy mentality goes a long way in speedrunning, but simultaneously, this video covers every nook and cranny of why, as speedrunners, we present our mentality in the way that we do.
One World Record Holder that I seen use this Mental Technique is the SM64 120 star Record Holder Simply, He was pretending that the run is trash and even had his Twitch Chat help him by telling him that the run sucks. After years of Hard work and Dedication he managed to lower the record by 15 seconds. Really shows that Speedrunning isn't just pressing buttons very specific and fast, it requires good mental health and being able to stay calm and collected during the stress and pressure of getting that one good run.
the thing is, in sport psychology, negative self talk is detrimental to performance and positive self talk improves it. Your example of mental technique, doing the opposite of what is recommended has quite odd results. Although I would expect that the experience from years of playing through runs is a considerable factor and the negative self talk is probably not contributing to the increase in performance.
@@mrzoideburge3663 I think the important differences areplayer vs game instead of player vs player and whether there is a "perfect" win. When facing against other real people, your attitude affects your opponent, such as displaying high confidence creates self-doubt in your opponents. Also, most sports that require a positive mentality are finished by time over score, so there is no "perfect" end goal. However, player vs game is much different. There is a definitive definition of "if you achieve this, you achieved perfection". This means your mentality instead is instead of just doing the best you can, it is now achieve the perfect end goal. For speed runners it's the perfect theoretical non-tas time. For actual sports, golf comes to mind. I know many golfers talk down their games because technically, getting a score of 18 or the fewest strokes it can take a human to complete said gold course is their goal. Regardless, the opponent is yourself, and usually it's your nerves that you have to defeat instead. Quickest way to do that? Downplay your gameplay.
@@jumpinjeff1709 I don't know, I'm pretty sure the psychological research says negative self talk, or a negative mindset towards your effort and yourself, lowers your performance regardless of sport or who you are competing against. Calming your nerves is a different thing, but many do that by downplaying their performance. And of course often it works but at the potential cost of your mindset.
The more you concern yourself with the tiniest errors the better you may find yourself doing, thereby producing a PB or WR. So due to that overly critical perspective the result of the run becomes irrelevant because the focus is almost entirely on what went wrong as opposed to what went right. That said, many artists feel the same way about their works which makes for an interesting parallel. The only people who truly enjoy the run? The viewers. The only people who truly enjoy the art? The viewers. Neat.
As someone who’s never really understood the “this run sucks” mindset, this was a really helpful and informative video. I guess for me personally, I feel like many runners have an insane amount of skill, but sell themselves short on the fact, which is unfortunate but I understand where they’re coming from
@@Masternaldo Thank you for adding a bit of history information to this thread. It's is true that's part of the origin of the sign. The way your sentence starts with "it's actually" makes me think you're trying to say it's one thing more than the other. I don't feel like going into a debate on whether it looks more like the stolen peace sign or the fascist swastika. My original comment was really about: "haha, look at that optical illusion oopsie caused by persistence of vision!"
"This run sucks, so basically, it doesn't actually matter if you beat my time... ~B i t c h~" Words to live by. EDIT: also goddamn excellent editing Trey, and much love for the like ❤
duuuuude this video is great, I love your specific presentation style, it's like the perfect mix between being explanatory and cracking jokes, it's so satisfying
People calling their own personal best speedruns bad definitely contributed to me giving up on speedrunning. Despite putting in the same amount of time/sometimes more and not coming anywhere near others who called their times bad made me feel stupid for being proud of my own personal bests.
Thing is, any time I spot a god-tier runner in a small streamer's chat, they're always super supportive. I really think they don't look down on other runners, even in secret. It's just this self-contained frustration during their own run, knowing they've done some sections of the game better.
I am a derust runner (lots of pb and a wr in derust) and I have myself as a mediocre speedrunnets which I am, I think you should think the amount of lost time vs skill that will affect mindset is more of a (so bad for what I could be) more than (nobody will get here)
why speedrunners say this run sucks: they've done almost everything they did wrong this time, right at least one time before, so it's basically like: "i've done this before, i know i can do this its easy, fail... i suck"
Its also got to do with the fact that a perfect run seems to get less and less amazing and almost seems expected after doing so many runs. On your first attempt, you'll be amazed when your able to garner up high speed, but by the 6500th attempt you'll be dissappointed you didn't do a certain section one millisecond faster and I'm not even exaggerating.
I got into speedrunning after spending years playing music games competitively, and began noticing parallels in both regimen and mentality. In particular, I quickly recognized the nerves that manifest during a good run. Achieving a personal best has that type of catharsis that feels very much like full comboing a song. Nailing a tough trick while ahead feels very much like nailing the hardest part in the middle of a potential FC: the stakes are higher and your body recognizes that - nerves flare up and trivial stuff can suddenly throw you off. The degree of nerves varies depending on the situation, like if it's an unpopular category (or a song with benign difficulty), nerves typically aren't a concern due to lack of competition; if you PB with a noticeably bad split (or FC with a botched star power path), the nerves are more subdued since you know it could be better, even if it's a run you know is hard. The bright side is that your first "good" PB, one where you break a strong personal goal, is usually when those nerves are at their worst, since that's when you're still improving and aren't used to overcoming mental barriers. Over time, as you acquire skill and knowledge, you also learn to suppress those nerves. They can still show up if you're on world record pace or something, but at that point, you've felt that level of pressure before and know how to manage it. Same principle applies when grinding a 1st place score on a song you've FCed several times before.
I've been binging all your videos for the last few days after getting interested in Sunshine running, and let me tell you, your BGM selection is top tier
I don't speedrun but I play competitive fighting games and I feel like the same principle applies. Messing up something and going "damn I suck" or "I deserve to lose after that." despite how well I did and how good(/better than others) I know I am. Great video, very interesting take on the subject.
I love that you mentioned the last part. a speedrun (and the longer it is, the more diverse it gets) is very often a mix between "holy shit that was pixel-frame-perfect and i am so insane i cant express how happy i am that i got this jump right on the first try" and "oh my god how can someone be sooooo garbage i bet my gandma would have done better and not fallen down this ledge". and there is everything in between. the more splits and critical situations a run has, the more often this will happen. you see your time save of a second or more and think to yourself "i am doing so great right now", and even if you are behind overall, you know you just improved this specific portion of the run. on the other hand, if you see that you lost some time or failed a trick, you instantly blame yourself, because you very likely just ruined this run. or, if you make some mistakes and good plays along the way but dont get a new PB, which mistake was the deciding factor? was it that one time you fell off the ledge? was it the coin you forgot to grab? didnt you miss that one shot one time which lost you .25 seconds because your dog barked? and in the end, if the runners wouldnt have any fun or sense of fulfillment, they would stop. of course they are happy about their accomplishments, deep down. at least a little.
Fantastic video! I agree with everything you said and would also add that “this run sucks” can be a defense mechanism for some against people who criticize. Dan Harmon once said “You can’t shoot me through a hole I shot myself” and it resonated with me for situations like this. You feel less stupid being criticized on something that you’ve already denounced. It’s like if you’re playing a team game with people and you rag really hard on yourself before the game, so the blowback is less bad if you really do mess up. Like you said, no one wants to feel silly. My favorite part of this video was the yoshis on the leaderboards, adorably edited. This is exactly the kind of content I look for regularly. Great job Trey.
It's absurd seeing how many times I've had a form of "this run sucks" in the description or said throughout WRs after watching this. This whole video pretty much sums up the mentality and sheds light to the inexperienced or outsider on how setting standards for oneself is not always a negative thing, everyone has different ways to keep themselves in check during their runs.
One of the best videos on speedrunning that I've ever seen. As a speedrunner, I can relate to this heavily. There have been so many days where runs would just always fail. Speedrunning can be a very painful experience, but also a beautiful, and emotional journey to something seriously amazing. After having gone through some really bad days of runs, I understand why some people completely leave speedrunning, it is quite mentally taxing, especially at high levels. If you're thinking about picking up speedrunning for the first time, I highly recommend it, because you will not only have fun, but you'll end up learning about yourself and the way you think. Speedrunning can really bring out emotions in people that they never knew they had. I personally have become less self critical from speedrunning, and I've learned to better appreciate my accomplishments. Anyways, thank you for reading all of this, I think a lot about speedrunning and I'm passionate about it. gl with your runs, and have a good day
yeah that being said, try to be aware of the times you're calling your runs bad, and try to consider that maybe it was RNG or Luck that caused the fail, and not actually your fault
To add in my unsolicited opinion and perspective I think “this _____ sucks” usually means, I know I can do better. Whenever I make some artwork that isn’t the best I can do I always say, this is garbage, why am I so bad at art, etc. but usually I just mean I see all the ways I can do this better and I feel frustrated this isn’t the best I can do.
Every little detail about this video. The inside references, the message, the production/editing quality, the script. This is the most important speedrunning-culture video ever. Amazingly well done, Trey. btw tho watch out for them sneaky "he/him/his", don't wanna play the They Police™ but it's important to show some love and acknowledgment for the existence of our lady runners out there
This is a fantastically thought out and deep video Trey. Brings up topics that i never even considered when telling myself 'this run is raw sewage'. I hope you make more of these videos!
great explainer, trey ^^ i'm happy you included the part at the end, too, because lots of us are actually pretty positive overall about our runs, and that doesn't make it any harder to improve. it actually can even help for some people!
Love the video, AverageTreyVG. You have some really great edits and present the material extremely well throughout the entire video and it helps ppl like myself with ADD remain engaged the whooooole time. LOL! Keep up the incredible work, man! Thx for the dedication to bringing more speedrunner content. It’s some of the absolute best content on TH-cam!!
One of the best video essays I've ever seen! First time seeing any of your content, will have to check out your other content and will be keeping an eye out for your future vids. Keep up the great work.
If there was ever a Speedrunners Association or Union, I'd vote you for president of it. You understand gaming as it relates to streaming speedruns really well and I think if you had a much bigger platform and position than you currently do, stressed out speedrunners would look up to you and find solace in their side-gig.
I even get this feeling playing games normally. Like doing a segment in an action game, even without ranking systems (KH for example), I'll sometimes just be like "Ah. Coulda been better. Messed up there." Which gets even worse when I know the speed strats.
One thing I'm surprised wasn't touched on is that losing time makes it more likely for runners to take large risks. When those play off, the runners can feel cheated and the viewers did not see the number of times it went wrong before.
Thank you for this video! It really helped give me new perspective and appreciation for speedrunners. It's actually a little frightening in a way, because of how much these kinds of experiences mirror my own when it comes to creating artwork of any kind. It's a surprisingly pervasive mindset, separated only by the skills and activities that it and the effort behind it are applied to.
I always thought it was in the same way an artist hates their art. They don't hate it because of the piece itself, they hate it because it could be better. They could draw the most beautiful eye-porn you've ever seen and they'll still see flaws in it. It's just how it is.
Why do streamers hate their runs? Why do artists hate their drawings? Why do musicians hate their music? Why do animators hate their animation? Anyhoo, I relate to this feelings. no hard feelings
Some food for thought about most self-deprecating seeming to happen on streams, in front of an audience. Some people tend to put themselves down before anyone else does. Fear of (in this case, immediate) disapproval can fester real deep. This is a great video :)
it's funny cuz i had this reflexion on something similar. i was thinking about athletism, it's like running for fun with someone who was the champion, the guy is not in a great day but still able to run 3 times faster than you. it's seems funny for you to hear em "damn i'm bad today...", because there is no excuses possible and only the result (the time) count.
I'm not a serious speedrunner, but I related to this video on so many levels. I was surprised at the end when you mentioned the positivity you found in speedrunning. As it was said in Hamilton, I will never be satisfied. A perfect run is pretty much impossible to achieve and the drive to improve is what makes a speedrunner a speedrunner IMO
Sounds like speed runners need to read this book called “effortless mastery” by Kenny Werner. It’s about approaching this kind of thing with a healthier attitude. It’s directed at jazz musicians but the information can by applied to any field that requires a degree of mastery that usually results in self depreciation. Check it out
@@The4stro not sure. It’s about finding peace during the journey towards mastery. I think it could be helpful for anybody trying to become a master at a very specific skill, learning to contend with the frustrations and healthy approaches to improving and critiquing your own work
It's a funny conundrum really. You train and train to earn the right to compete for a medal in a competition so the record becomes the focus. Since that's what we grew up seeing, that's what we learned. When you get into speedrunning, it's just an extension to playing games so it's not something as miraculous. Due to that, competition isn't the focus. It's a new mentality you have to learn.
I think this video hit the mark very well on top of being surprisingly well-produced. Living up to your expectations can be an impossibility, but it's nice to always have something to work toward; satisfaction is both a blessing and a curse, and people often take the journey to it for granted.
Amazing video with some really cool thoughts. I understood part of it but since im not a speedrunner some thing didn't make much sense. Thanks for the video! its really awesome.
Oh goodness the music from pokemon colleseum. Man you don't even notice how iconic some random game tracks are until you hear them and you just KNOW... Wow I love that game. Thank you so much for using it.
Great video! I relate to so many of the points made in it. I tend to run RNG-less / low RNG games for the most part (mainly VVVVVV), and defeating this "this run sucks" mentality in my mind has always been my favorite part of the process. It's always a blast to watch your videos, keep it up!
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 61 | คู่เอก "เพชรสุขุมวิท vs ดวงสมพงษ์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/edA1HvEyxh8/mqdefault.jpg)
Usain Bolt: * Gets World Record for the 10th time *
"This run sucks"
"If only I didn't take a glimpse at the clock"
"Ugh, the RNG for the auto-generated 100m dash map sucked. I should've gotten the shoe upgrade earlier into the game."
@@michaela4228 funny thing is there is the rng of temperature, altitude and all that at championships around the world. There's one velodrome where basically all track cycling world records are set because of the perfect altitude where there is a mix of less dense air but also enough to breathe efficiently it's crazy
the drug testers : this urin sucks
“I should have bought the shady juice from the ex con man”
"This run sucks"
- Everyone on their deathbeds, probably
This comment is on its way to a top comment I’m investing at 8 likes
God sucks at coding
This game is way too buggy and Elon is using hacks
@Eric Lee lmao np
@Eric Lee It has doubled since your last comment. Thought you might want to know that
My english is bad, can someone tell me what "PB" is?
"Why am I so shit when I'm bad?"
I couldn't put it better in any other way.
That's Werster for ya
the floor is made of floor
u! log :/
ye
every 60 seconds in africa a minute passes
I can totally account for "Not wanting to be worse than that guy"
Because in the 5th grade I physically hurt myself running just because I didn't want to lose to the guy so badly that I ran myself ragged. I can happily say that I ran faster and longer than that kid, screw you Cameron
i did the exact same thing during the pacer test in 8th grade hahaha
What is That profile pic, I've been seeing it everywhere
Hell yeah
FUCJ cameron! gj!
it is always cameron, always.
The run not meeting the runner's skill level part is very true.
CONGRATS ON THE 1:13!
lmao this reminds me of like when one person shows up and load of people rush over to them with microphones in their face and asks them questions
That run WAS a beautiful flower
Yes yes yes it was
Imagine Gordon Ramsay saying "my food is crap, it could be better" or Michael Phelps saying "I shouldn't have smoked before the competition, I was one millisecond slower."
My guy how are you actually on everything I watch
STOP SHOWING IN MY COMMENTS SERIOUSLY I SAW YOU IN EVERY MOIST VIDEO AND THIS
@@ethankim3615 Shared account.
Ur like that ray mak dude EVERYWHERE
What
Speed runners “my run sucks”
everyone else “WTF that runs is amazing”
Artists “my art sucks”
everyone else “WTF that art is amazing”
Ur probably right, don't listen to everyone else
@@coszz hahhah true.
Me: "my run sucks"
everyone else: "yes, that's true"
Good artists: this is a amazing painting I made I'm very talented
Everyone: Omg big ego much gosh what a jerk
@@wrestlinghe2638 Who calls himself talented tho :DDDDD I mean its fine to have an ego, and to be proud of yourself and your work but there is a line you should not cross. No one cares if a world famous artist calls himself a really talented amazing artist but that is because its obviously true most of the time people like this are just overconfident. It's fine to have a big ego if you actually sell a shit ton of paintings for example or won some awards and no one but idiots will dislike you for it, but its different if the only ones buying your paintings are your mom and grandma.
As an artist I relate a lot to this mentality. While art is subjective it still has enough fundamentals for any average person to recognize "good" art, which is why when a clearly great artist tears their own work apart and says, "this hand sucks", or, "this could've looked better", it sounds ridiculous to people who either don't draw or consider themselves of a lower skill. We're constantly striving to improve our current selves which means no matter how good we are, the goal isn't even close to being reached lol
yah even artist think there artwork is bad, ive had some friends paint a part of a mural for school and say its bad and then you look at it and its godlike...ive always drawn alot of things and i could never think of one time where i never said "this part of the drawing sucks" even though there wasnt even anything wrong with it
This was nice I liked this
This video sucked
It was bad
Shut up Michael
Cool
@@oneshinyboi3083 well it was terrible
Obligatory "not a speedrunner", but it's bizarre how closely I feel about this. I've always lived with the ideology that "I never want to be happy because once I am, what else is there to aspire to?". People often feel strange about that sentiment, which in turn, made me doubt if I should feel that way. But in no moment am I ever saying that "I'll never be content". This video put that into a better perspective for me and allowed me to understand my own feelings better.
That being said, I also feel like while getting into the mindset of "this run sucks" is a psychological aid to not heighten expectations and therefore disappointment, it seems like a double-edged sword. I wonder how many runners internalize that thought, especially those who say it more often, to the point where, run after run, on and off stream, they might begin to think that... Every run they do sucks. This is not only untrue, but it's unfair to them and may take a toll on their mental health. You guys put in so much work to develop your abilities and techniques that bring entertainment and awe to so many people. This isn't to say that you're not allowed to criticize your own abilities or your runs. In fact, I think it's healthy to do so, to see where you can improve and keep egos in check, as Trey said. But pat yourself on the back for things you do right as well, every once in a while.
"Moderation" is the keyword here, I think. Thanks for the great video Trey, and for the insight into the mindset of a runner. Love what you guys do!
I actually have a similar but different mindset. I've always been in the position to find things I am happy about and share my self-found happiness with other people to see if they get happy and in turn, get happy by having given other people happiness. It's a self-sustaining form of happiness, because there always will be things in life to discover that will make me happy. I never want to be happy with everything in my life at the same time untill I die, but having small nuggets of happiness spread over time that I can share with other people who in turn let that nugget grow a bit for me is great.
In short, I do understand the fear of not being able to find more happiness, but I've learned a long time ago that fearing something your entire life is worse than having that fear come true. If the fear comes true, you'll have to learn to improvise to beat the situation and get out stronger, if you remain in fear, you're just locked behind a wall. You can always go back if you crossed the line, but if you never cross the line in the first place, you'll never know whats on the other side.
I find, that this is a different sort of contentment: You are Content with the journey, the movement, the motion, its not being content with where you're at, but being content with the motion.
"You strike me as a woman who has never been satisfied."
"I'm sure I don't know what you mean, you forget yourself."
"You're like me, I'm never satisfied."
"Is that right?"
"I have never been satisfied."
i think that every error in a speedrun is crucial so if they blame themself its nothing to worry about i mean tryharding on a game to reach an objective failing and failing is stressful as hell especially when you put also days for just a run
It’s a fine mindset, unless you are trying to not be happy....but just try being happy, then strive for really really really happy....or cooking
Been speedrunning a month and.... yes..... this.....
You: I like your videos and it was surprising to find you here
Ty for making this. I've been getting so many "why does he say the run is bad" comments that I've considered addressing/explaining it in a video myself lol. GG another great vid
Eyyy didnt expect to find you here lol
@@leedlelel2373 I kind of did expect to find him here ngl
Ey shift
yo shift
You are the most guilty of this tbh, haha. Still enjoy the crap out of your runs and attempts.
As the head priest in the church of "Mentality is Everything in Speedrunning," I approve this message.
Seriously, though. A healthy mentality goes a long way in speedrunning, but simultaneously, this video covers every nook and cranny of why, as speedrunners, we present our mentality in the way that we do.
One World Record Holder that I seen use this Mental Technique is the SM64 120 star Record Holder Simply, He was pretending that the run is trash and even had his Twitch Chat help him by telling him that the run sucks. After years of Hard work and Dedication he managed to lower the record by 15 seconds. Really shows that Speedrunning isn't just pressing buttons very specific and fast, it requires good mental health and being able to stay calm and collected during the stress and pressure of getting that one good run.
the thing is, in sport psychology, negative self talk is detrimental to performance and positive self talk improves it. Your example of mental technique, doing the opposite of what is recommended has quite odd results. Although I would expect that the experience from years of playing through runs is a considerable factor and the negative self talk is probably not contributing to the increase in performance.
@@mrzoideburge3663 I think the important differences areplayer vs game instead of player vs player and whether there is a "perfect" win. When facing against other real people, your attitude affects your opponent, such as displaying high confidence creates self-doubt in your opponents. Also, most sports that require a positive mentality are finished by time over score, so there is no "perfect" end goal. However, player vs game is much different. There is a definitive definition of "if you achieve this, you achieved perfection". This means your mentality instead is instead of just doing the best you can, it is now achieve the perfect end goal. For speed runners it's the perfect theoretical non-tas time. For actual sports, golf comes to mind. I know many golfers talk down their games because technically, getting a score of 18 or the fewest strokes it can take a human to complete said gold course is their goal. Regardless, the opponent is yourself, and usually it's your nerves that you have to defeat instead. Quickest way to do that? Downplay your gameplay.
@@jumpinjeff1709 I don't know, I'm pretty sure the psychological research says negative self talk, or a negative mindset towards your effort and yourself, lowers your performance regardless of sport or who you are competing against. Calming your nerves is a different thing, but many do that by downplaying their performance. And of course often it works but at the potential cost of your mindset.
The more you concern yourself with the tiniest errors the better you may find yourself doing, thereby producing a PB or WR. So due to that overly critical perspective the result of the run becomes irrelevant because the focus is almost entirely on what went wrong as opposed to what went right. That said, many artists feel the same way about their works which makes for an interesting parallel. The only people who truly enjoy the run? The viewers. The only people who truly enjoy the art? The viewers.
Neat.
As someone who’s never really understood the “this run sucks” mindset, this was a really helpful and informative video. I guess for me personally, I feel like many runners have an insane amount of skill, but sell themselves short on the fact, which is unfortunate but I understand where they’re coming from
some speedrunners, are definitely like that, but to say "many runners" seems like a bit of a stretch.
3:41 Accidental Twitch swastika oops!
I came to comment to see if anyone else noticed
i thought i was the only one 😂😂
Who said it's accidental...
It's actually a Hindu sign that been used from more than thousand years, Hitler stole it from them
@@Masternaldo Thank you for adding a bit of history information to this thread. It's is true that's part of the origin of the sign.
The way your sentence starts with "it's actually" makes me think you're trying to say it's one thing more than the other. I don't feel like going into a debate on whether it looks more like the stolen peace sign or the fascist swastika.
My original comment was really about: "haha, look at that optical illusion oopsie caused by persistence of vision!"
That was superb editing. Only planned to watch a few minutes and watched the whole thing.
"This run sucks, so basically, it doesn't actually matter if you beat my time... ~B i t c h~"
Words to live by.
EDIT: also goddamn excellent editing Trey, and much love for the like ❤
duuuuude this video is great, I love your specific presentation style, it's like the perfect mix between being explanatory and cracking jokes, it's so satisfying
This video is too true.
I feel attacked
☹
Hi GG on 57
Literally every WR holders: "Ahhh I'm so shit in this game".
People calling their own personal best speedruns bad definitely contributed to me giving up on speedrunning. Despite putting in the same amount of time/sometimes more and not coming anywhere near others who called their times bad made me feel stupid for being proud of my own personal bests.
Thing is, any time I spot a god-tier runner in a small streamer's chat, they're always super supportive. I really think they don't look down on other runners, even in secret. It's just this self-contained frustration during their own run, knowing they've done some sections of the game better.
I am a derust runner (lots of pb and a wr in derust) and I have myself as a mediocre speedrunnets which I am, I think you should think the amount of lost time vs skill that will affect mindset is more of a (so bad for what I could be) more than (nobody will get here)
holy shit this was a really good video; this basically represents every thought I have about the topic
dage4
dage4
@@catleaf I just found out I can't post a comment by just tagging them
Dage can you be my waifu
dage4
why speedrunners say this run sucks: they've done almost everything they did wrong this time, right at least one time before, so it's basically like: "i've done this before, i know i can do this its easy, fail... i suck"
Its also got to do with the fact that a perfect run seems to get less and less amazing and almost seems expected after doing so many runs. On your first attempt, you'll be amazed when your able to garner up high speed, but by the 6500th attempt you'll be dissappointed you didn't do a certain section one millisecond faster and I'm not even exaggerating.
I got into speedrunning after spending years playing music games competitively, and began noticing parallels in both regimen and mentality. In particular, I quickly recognized the nerves that manifest during a good run. Achieving a personal best has that type of catharsis that feels very much like full comboing a song.
Nailing a tough trick while ahead feels very much like nailing the hardest part in the middle of a potential FC: the stakes are higher and your body recognizes that - nerves flare up and trivial stuff can suddenly throw you off. The degree of nerves varies depending on the situation, like if it's an unpopular category (or a song with benign difficulty), nerves typically aren't a concern due to lack of competition; if you PB with a noticeably bad split (or FC with a botched star power path), the nerves are more subdued since you know it could be better, even if it's a run you know is hard.
The bright side is that your first "good" PB, one where you break a strong personal goal, is usually when those nerves are at their worst, since that's when you're still improving and aren't used to overcoming mental barriers. Over time, as you acquire skill and knowledge, you also learn to suppress those nerves. They can still show up if you're on world record pace or something, but at that point, you've felt that level of pressure before and know how to manage it. Same principle applies when grinding a 1st place score on a song you've FCed several times before.
I've been binging all your videos for the last few days after getting interested in Sunshine running, and let me tell you, your BGM selection is top tier
wow. this is by far the most well thought out, well executed take I've seen on this topic. gj
I don't speedrun but I play competitive fighting games and I feel like the same principle applies. Messing up something and going "damn I suck" or "I deserve to lose after that." despite how well I did and how good(/better than others) I know I am.
Great video, very interesting take on the subject.
“This run sucks”
Me: can’t even beat game
I love that you mentioned the last part. a speedrun (and the longer it is, the more diverse it gets) is very often a mix between "holy shit that was pixel-frame-perfect and i am so insane i cant express how happy i am that i got this jump right on the first try" and "oh my god how can someone be sooooo garbage i bet my gandma would have done better and not fallen down this ledge". and there is everything in between. the more splits and critical situations a run has, the more often this will happen. you see your time save of a second or more and think to yourself "i am doing so great right now", and even if you are behind overall, you know you just improved this specific portion of the run. on the other hand, if you see that you lost some time or failed a trick, you instantly blame yourself, because you very likely just ruined this run. or, if you make some mistakes and good plays along the way but dont get a new PB, which mistake was the deciding factor? was it that one time you fell off the ledge? was it the coin you forgot to grab? didnt you miss that one shot one time which lost you .25 seconds because your dog barked?
and in the end, if the runners wouldnt have any fun or sense of fulfillment, they would stop. of course they are happy about their accomplishments, deep down. at least a little.
Fantastic video! I agree with everything you said and would also add that “this run sucks” can be a defense mechanism for some against people who criticize. Dan Harmon once said “You can’t shoot me through a hole I shot myself” and it resonated with me for situations like this. You feel less stupid being criticized on something that you’ve already denounced.
It’s like if you’re playing a team game with people and you rag really hard on yourself before the game, so the blowback is less bad if you really do mess up. Like you said, no one wants to feel silly.
My favorite part of this video was the yoshis on the leaderboards, adorably edited. This is exactly the kind of content I look for regularly. Great job Trey.
It's absurd seeing how many times I've had a form of "this run sucks" in the description or said throughout WRs after watching this. This whole video pretty much sums up the mentality and sheds light to the inexperienced or outsider on how setting standards for oneself is not always a negative thing, everyone has different ways to keep themselves in check during their runs.
One of the best videos on speedrunning that I've ever seen. As a speedrunner, I can relate to this heavily. There have been so many days where runs would just always fail. Speedrunning can be a very painful experience, but also a beautiful, and emotional journey to something seriously amazing.
After having gone through some really bad days of runs, I understand why some people completely leave speedrunning, it is quite mentally taxing, especially at high levels.
If you're thinking about picking up speedrunning for the first time, I highly recommend it, because you will not only have fun, but you'll end up learning about yourself and the way you think.
Speedrunning can really bring out emotions in people that they never knew they had. I personally have become less self critical from speedrunning, and I've learned to better appreciate my accomplishments.
Anyways, thank you for reading all of this, I think a lot about speedrunning and I'm passionate about it. gl with your runs, and have a good day
yeah that being said, try to be aware of the times you're calling your runs bad, and try to consider that maybe it was RNG or Luck that caused the fail, and not actually your fault
To add in my unsolicited opinion and perspective I think “this _____ sucks” usually means, I know I can do better. Whenever I make some artwork that isn’t the best I can do I always say, this is garbage, why am I so bad at art, etc. but usually I just mean I see all the ways I can do this better and I feel frustrated this isn’t the best I can do.
CLUE speedruns when?
they've been a thing for a while
@@aajjeee but have they been trey's thing?
Every little detail about this video. The inside references, the message, the production/editing quality, the script. This is the most important speedrunning-culture video ever. Amazingly well done, Trey.
btw tho watch out for them sneaky "he/him/his", don't wanna play the They Police™ but it's important to show some love and acknowledgment for the existence of our lady runners out there
Holy crap, this editing is phenomenal. Amazing work, I really hope to see more of this!
I really loved the part where you said “cherry-picking” and it showed Blinky grabbing the golden Cherry
This video doesn't suck
(my run still does though)
16:26 That is still my favorite line from Price. Well done video Trey.
This is a fantastically thought out and deep video Trey. Brings up topics that i never even considered when telling myself 'this run is raw sewage'. I hope you make more of these videos!
great explainer, trey ^^ i'm happy you included the part at the end, too, because lots of us are actually pretty positive overall about our runs, and that doesn't make it any harder to improve. it actually can even help for some people!
someone should create a speedrunning robot that's always positive so that it can get WR and have the description of its video be "good run :)"
also i really love this image at 15:27
Meet DwangoAC and his console replay device: TASBot
Trey videos like these kick ass, as someone who doesn’t speedrun games definitely helped me get a better mindset of people who do.
I genuinely love the presentation and production of this video, all the little things make this a great vid!
Love the video, AverageTreyVG. You have some really great edits and present the material extremely well throughout the entire video and it helps ppl like myself with ADD remain engaged the whooooole time. LOL!
Keep up the incredible work, man! Thx for the dedication to bringing more speedrunner content. It’s some of the absolute best content on TH-cam!!
"FOBB" is my new favorite speedrunning term thank you Trey
I play melee fox so I can complain about playing bad that day but actually its FOBB.
Speedrun content about purely speedrunning and the psychology has become my favorite thing on TH-cam, it's awesome seeing all this stuff.
One of the best video essays I've ever seen! First time seeing any of your content, will have to check out your other content and will be keeping an eye out for your future vids. Keep up the great work.
Great video, love your style and effort into the videos, keep it up dude
If there was ever a Speedrunners Association or Union, I'd vote you for president of it. You understand gaming as it relates to streaming speedruns really well and I think if you had a much bigger platform and position than you currently do, stressed out speedrunners would look up to you and find solace in their side-gig.
3:40 who else saw a swastika when the checkmark started spinning
Glad im not the only one lmao
Dude, for real, amazing video. I love the editing
this was a really great video, it clearly took a lot of work to edit and you did an awesome job.
Ah, another masterpiece
I even get this feeling playing games normally. Like doing a segment in an action game, even without ranking systems (KH for example), I'll sometimes just be like "Ah. Coulda been better. Messed up there."
Which gets even worse when I know the speed strats.
Nice video dude! Was wondering this for a while. Great edits too :D!
this is a great video!!! i love this kind of speed run commentary!!!
Me: *completes a game in months*
The speedrunner that completed it in under 30 minutes: why am I so bad?
One thing I'm surprised wasn't touched on is that losing time makes it more likely for runners to take large risks. When those play off, the runners can feel cheated and the viewers did not see the number of times it went wrong before.
Amazing editing and great points made. Next time this gets brought up in my stream I’ll refer them to this video
Thank you for this video! It really helped give me new perspective and appreciation for speedrunners. It's actually a little frightening in a way, because of how much these kinds of experiences mirror my own when it comes to creating artwork of any kind. It's a surprisingly pervasive mindset, separated only by the skills and activities that it and the effort behind it are applied to.
I always thought it was in the same way an artist hates their art. They don't hate it because of the piece itself, they hate it because it could be better. They could draw the most beautiful eye-porn you've ever seen and they'll still see flaws in it. It's just how it is.
Why do streamers hate their runs? Why do artists hate their drawings? Why do musicians hate their music? Why do animators hate their animation? Anyhoo, I relate to this feelings. no hard feelings
If you think its good enough you wont try to get better
Some food for thought about most self-deprecating seeming to happen on streams, in front of an audience. Some people tend to put themselves down before anyone else does. Fear of (in this case, immediate) disapproval can fester real deep. This is a great video :)
Great editing. Excited for the possibility of further general speedrunning content from this channel! :)
it's funny cuz i had this reflexion on something similar.
i was thinking about athletism, it's like running for fun with someone who was the champion, the guy is not in a great day but still able to run 3 times faster than you.
it's seems funny for you to hear em "damn i'm bad today...", because there is no excuses possible and only the result (the time) count.
"My runs suck" - every speedrunner.
"My life sucks" - every person who never had any hardships in life.
I really like the editing in this video. Very fun to watch :)
Man, was is a really well edited video. Graphics and animations were top notch - keep up the great work!
in the dousky case it may have been a situation where it was like wow this run sucks why couldnt i gold that on a run with a better start?
Content besides video games are hard, cool
Ahh you play staff roll Mario 64, good song choice
Wow, that was really useful. Thank you for all the effort and thought put into this video.
this video has some of the most creative editing i have seen on TH-cam, seriously good.
I'm not a serious speedrunner, but I related to this video on so many levels. I was surprised at the end when you mentioned the positivity you found in speedrunning. As it was said in Hamilton, I will never be satisfied. A perfect run is pretty much impossible to achieve and the drive to improve is what makes a speedrunner a speedrunner IMO
Sounds like speed runners need to read this book called “effortless mastery” by Kenny Werner. It’s about approaching this kind of thing with a healthier attitude. It’s directed at jazz musicians but the information can by applied to any field that requires a degree of mastery that usually results in self depreciation. Check it out
hmm
how long is that book. i don't really want to slog through a 400 page book
@@The4stro vey short. I think a little less then 100 pages. Couldn’t recommend it more
@@JonathanHinesPiano im thinking about reading it to help me with fighting games. do you think it would apply?
@@The4stro not sure. It’s about finding peace during the journey towards mastery. I think it could be helpful for anybody trying to become a master at a very specific skill, learning to contend with the frustrations and healthy approaches to improving and critiquing your own work
thanks for another good documentary-esque video, these are the best
This vid is chockful of great quotable segments. There was a lot of relatable moments in there.
It's a funny conundrum really. You train and train to earn the right to compete for a medal in a competition so the record becomes the focus. Since that's what we grew up seeing, that's what we learned. When you get into speedrunning, it's just an extension to playing games so it's not something as miraculous. Due to that, competition isn't the focus. It's a new mentality you have to learn.
We’re all joined together in our self-hatred
I think this video hit the mark very well on top of being surprisingly well-produced. Living up to your expectations can be an impossibility, but it's nice to always have something to work toward; satisfaction is both a blessing and a curse, and people often take the journey to it for granted.
Amazing editing, best video I've seen in a while tbh.
the nazis took some inspiration from the eastern religions in their symbol and the eastern religions took it from this video at 3:41
the reed clip tho
Amazing video with some really cool thoughts. I understood part of it but since im not a speedrunner some thing didn't make much sense. Thanks for the video! its really awesome.
Oh goodness the music from pokemon colleseum. Man you don't even notice how iconic some random game tracks are until you hear them and you just KNOW... Wow I love that game. Thank you so much for using it.
4:47 gameing political compass
bottom text
Clue is the true libleft agenda
Overanalyzing manifestations of the rampant and normalized depression in today's youth: the video
I think you don't know what depression is
Quality content from start to finish, as always. Everything in this is so true and relatable.
Yoooo, the Mang0 quote was hype. Love that man - good video!
Roblox Adventure II is the best roblox game on speedrun.com, only behind Robot 64. (Look up robot 64 it needs more recognition as a roblox speedgame)
Smelly
wtf u mean robot 64 bad game
im a developer for it and i still hate it
@@poke7661 kekw
@@Kwaol 3Kek
killer bean now
This first comment speedrun sucks
agreed
Wow, an “I’m first lololol” comment I actually like
no me
What an incredibly well made video! Very entertaining. Thanks dude :-)
Great video! I relate to so many of the points made in it. I tend to run RNG-less / low RNG games for the most part (mainly VVVVVV), and defeating this "this run sucks" mentality in my mind has always been my favorite part of the process. It's always a blast to watch your videos, keep it up!
Nothing scares me more than being outdone by tyler and skyler
That damn Jayden and Aiden co-op time... somebody has to take the Wonder Bread Twins down!
It isn't Player versus Game as much as it is Player vs SELF.
Or player vs the world
Absolutely love your vids dude. Hope to see you on stream soon.
This is my favorite speedrunning related video ever. I love it.