I've become a massive fan of scapple, as it allows any box to connect with any box on an infinitely large ,board'. I've been toying with methods over the last month, quite intensively and the freedom of layouts is great.
Outside the scope of this channel right now honestly. But I would recommend Joanna Penn’s latest book, How to Write Nonfiction. It has pretty good overview of prepping to write your nonfiction book. Thank you for watching the video!
Great video!! I built a hybrid: The Netflix Method. Imagine your story as a multi season, multi episode show. Let's say you pick 5 seasons with 10 episodes each. Now write your story in 50 short sentences, each being the headliner of the episodes. Lastly imagine these sentences as your checkpoints, on a cross country road trip. You know where your going, but there are many details to discover along the adventure. Each check point you write, you already know the next one. The reason I posted this is I am wondering if it makes sense to other writers and is usable.
this sounds like a great way to both 1) keep track of the story structure in a cohesive overview and 2) force yourself to write a one-sentence core summary/storyline for each "episode" of the novel. this probably helps a lot to make sure each episode is not too long and not too short, yet each episode has one specific storyline that adds to the story development thanks!
That's very interesting. It's actually a great way to relate visually to plotting. The only thing I would add is to pick out episodes that will be turning points, critical points, doorways, etc. Not that my suggestion is an improvement, more just a way for it to better suit me personally.
OH, good, I'm so glad "writing into the dark" is a legitimate approach. I started looking into how to outline and plot my stories, because I've always just written scene-by-scene and letting the story take ME for a ride instead of me laying down the tracks for the story to follow. I've always enjoyed that approach, because I don't know what's going to happen next until it happens, and I feel that makes for a more exciting story. But I thought it was an improper or bad method since I always hear of people being organized, and having a clear idea of their story before they write it, while I'm over here, a chaos gremlin, slapping words on a page with sugar water and seeing what sticks. I may not change that, then!
Honestly, a perfect video. This is one of the most intelligent and helpful overviews I have seen. Simple clean background, no gimmicky graphics, only what is necessary for clarity. And an incredibly likable presenter. Instant subscribe. Please keep doing it like this!
The easiest novel I've ever written was one my daughter and I brainstormed. We wrote down all the plot points. She was a bit of a captive audience, as the two of us were driving from Ohio to Oklahoma from a family reunion in 1996. I'd been listening to the radio while she was napping. Don't remember what the commercial was for but we were on the short side of St. Louis. It got my mind to running 10,000 miles faster than our car. I usually carry small legal notepads in the car and I told her to get one out. By the time we made the border between Oklahoma and Missouri, we had 16 pages of notes. I started working on it and finished the first draft in about 6 weeks. It's since grown from a 55,000 word novel to a 90K word novels. I now ask her to brainstorm with me all the time. And I still keep those small legal notebooks in the car all the time.
She and I have always been close. Her father and I went through a legal separation when she was 6 months old. We remarried in 1991. She and I have been brainstorming lately on a fantasy novel that I hope to get started on when I finish my present WIP.
My personal method is to write down my “core values” or things I want to stay true to the story, character, world, etc, and then basically write into the dark after that. So I have at least a basic guide to tell me if I’ve gone off track.
Nice work! Some of these methods are new to me. I incorporate several of these into my process (which is basically a 9-beat outline that has 3-act structure & plot points). However, I don't really recommend outlining for beginners. I agree that it can become a trap. For new writers, the best approach is writing daily, scene by scene, or outlining as they go. Until a person has sufficient experience/ mileage from writing tons of words, even the best of outlines probably won't lead to full novels. The reason is that we all lose motivation more quickly when following an outline. Even for experienced authors, the middle of a first draft often feels like a chore. The difference is that they can keep going anyway bc they know that the feeling of resistance doesn't mean there's a problem. A piece of bad advice I often see online & from writing teachers/ coaches is "if you're bored while writing, then your writing will bore readers." That's not only false, it's poisonous. It creates a toxic mindset where writers verbally vomit all their fun, wild thoughts. Instead of writing fiction, they end up engaged in an enjoyable but otherwise fruitless journaling exercise. The fastest way to bore readers is with self-indulgent tripe that was fun for the author to write but lacks any narrative or character arcs and fails to make/ fulfill promises to the reader. This absurd non-advice is equally common & poisonous in other creative fields, too, like: "audiences can see if an artist didn't have fun making the painting." No! The final process of rendering in visual media or editing fiction is almost never fun. Imagjne if this advice was given to professionals in other fields. What if a heart surgeon was told that he should be having fun while doing his job?! LOL 😆
This is a great video, I've spent countless hours watching and reading different outlining advice and still haven't heard half of these. And yes, those unexplored ideas were the ones that most appealed to me, in particular the story grid and beats and preproduction.
As an intuitive pantser, I found getting enough sleep, being alone and binge listening to music the best ways to start writing. Once the creative juice stops, it stops for the rest of the day and there is no point in trying to force myself to keep writing to hit that quota because whatever I will produce under forced conditions will be of vastly inferior quality than what I would do had I just gone to bed and started the next day. I end up having to heavily edit and/or rewrite the forced bits, which kills my motivation.
Personally, I'd call myself a hybrid outliner/pantser. I make a barebones outline laid out along the lines of a three-act structure, but I only fill in minimal details (like specific scenes I want to include if anything is already in my mind). Then I "pants" my way to each of these checkpoints along the way, occasionally having to tweak the structure midway because something really cool develops along the way. I want to keep as much spontaneity as I can as well because it has served me well in the past. In my first thriller back in 2013 (The Goddess of Strife), I had a bit character, Emma Sandsmark, whom I planned to use in only one scene near the beginning, work her way into eventually being a co-lead by the final draft! Allowing her to "live" completely changed the story for the better, so I'm glad I didn't limit her potential with an overly strict outline. But on the other hand, without any outline at all, a novel can quickly become an utter mess!
Most of the structure based outlining methods are variations of each other at a more or less detailed level. You can easily overlay the Hero Journey onto the three act structure and supplement it with the plot points and pinch points and synchronise with the grid
It's been helpful to me, as I've been playing around a lot with structuring methods and ideas. Stories tend to tell me at some point, what they want me to do. Some gets finished 'straight into the dark' other get plotted carefully. I'm a visual artist too ( though mainly a writer these days): when you learn perspective really well, you see it as you draw without laying out all the lines and vanishing points. Having a variety of plotting methods in the noggin can help with steaming straight on, seeing the structure 'upstairs', sometimes with less 'line drawing'. Good video. Thanks.
Hi Michael. Thanks for this cogent summary of a broad range of plot outlines. I have a taught creative writing on the graduate-school level (MFA) and still learned quite a bit from your presentation. Great food for thought as I begin my next project. Keep up the good work.
After watching this video, I realized that the novel I'm working on right now follows the plot point outline structure.... even though I didn't outline it that way. :) I like it when these formulas back up things you do instinctually already. I also tend to use beats as I go, but I never knew that was the name for it. I have been watching a lot of your videos the last few days, and they're really helpful. Also listening to Old Dark on Audible on my way into work in the mornings. I'm really enjoying it so far!
Yes, it’s amazing how we instinctively do things that other writers have been doing for years. And thanks so much for buying Old Dark. Glad you are enjoying it!! :)
This video is extremely detailed and helpful. I further appreciate your referencing. I consume your content daily and this video needs more attention. Thank you friend
Thank you for putting them all in one place. Being new to writing novels, I have studied most of these, but then trying to go back and find a specific thing "I once read" is next to impossible. Thanks again for doing this video!
My favorite outlining method was once the three act structure, plot point, hero’s journey, and Lester Dent’s Master Plot Formula. But now, Mike, my favorite method (or technique) of outlining is scenes and sequels technique. It’s my favorite because there is no downside to it. And you can use it to write out your story or novel the way you “write into the dark”. Also I can use the micro action-reaction technique called ‘motivation-reaction units’ or MRU. Read it in Techniques of the Selling Writer and you’ll see what I mean. Great video!
@@AuthorLevelUp Thanks! I have Creating Characters by Swain. It’s great, too, but I love the Scenes and Sequels method and actually currently writing a story without outlining using the method. All I (and writers) have to do is follow the method in your head.
I like the one about starting from the middle or the beginning of the character transformation, as the story I’m outlining is more about complex character growth instead of a complex plot.
There's a pantser outline. 😲 This sounds awesome! I have tried outlining. I did and didn't care what happened next. But, an idea of where to shoot sounds perfect for me. Thank you!
I am a new novel writer, kinda feel lost regarding how to outline (or should I outline) so I just write my novel out, and then, when you mentioned the Writing in the Dark method, I began to realize that method was the best fit for me. Big thanks!
This is the no glam, concise, to the point lesson on different outline methods and you are a fabulous teacher. Thank you. It makes me wonder because it seems that you might be a very focused writer by the precision of your communication and how you come across as organized. I on the other hand am not terribly focused or organized which is a great revelation to me because it helped me understand my writing style. After many different outlines which resulted in the beginnings of many different stories then went flat once I felt uninspired to write past the main crux of the story because it was lost in trying to stay within the framework that I mapped out. "Writing into the dark" is a lot more my style where I enjoy the journey and allow it to take me on twists and turns. Those beginnings can then be combined and woven into the matrix of my story and I find that really fun. I do like finding visuals and music to keep me in the groove. The main drawback is - as you've mentioned - that I can prep for the story so much that I forget to even write it. My stumbling block is the very thing that keeps me writing is that I love to live what I'm writing. It is an emotional journey for me that becomes too draining for me to not write it as I feel it (or see it) than to waste that emotion on outlines. Now I will add, writing from the middle is also an interesting way to write but my writing does jump around and needs substantial editing by the second draft which is where I derive the most pleasure from writing honestly because that is where I can see how it all fits. It is seeing where it will take me as I let it flow that blows my mind and I can't hardly write any other way. One thing I find is as long as I'm staying emotionally true no matter how off the wall the subject or characters, the more it keeps the audience resonating with the story in general.
I appreciate your comment. It embodies how key exploration and self-awareness are to a Writer’s Journey. Everyone’s different-what matters is that you know HOW you are different so you can focus on your strengths.
Thank you! I was hammering away at my new novel (based on a screenplay I've already written) and I started getting interested in outlining to keep track of my different plotlines. The Story Grid sounded like it was right up my alley... but the more I tried to work it the more confused I got (over the larger grid - there were some ideas there I really liked and will keep), I wasted a least two weeks getting no writing done at all. I ended up abandoning it totally, but felt like a failure for not being able to really understand it or how it pertained to my novel. Thanks for letting me know it isn't just me, this is really difficult. :)
This was such a helpful video. In an effort to improve my writing, I am trying to get better at outlining and stop being such a 'pantser'. This video was exactly what I needed! Thank you!
Fantastic! I have been writing with the beats and preproduction method and DID NOT KNOW IT! I thought I was cheating or doing it wrong. I'm so glad I have found your videos, every one I watch gives me more confidence!
"The Story Grid by Shawn Coyne" I read this recently. It is geared more towards editing. As Shawn says, don't mix writing and editing. I am definitely struggling with outlining my first novel. The Story Grid did help me clarify Genre, which for my book is horror. (I did not see that coming.)
Thank you so much for getting to the point. I can't tell you how many videos I've gone through where people claim to provide this info but just end up talking about themselves. Also, thank you for the links. These have been super helpful.
WOW! Just the very best stuff I've read on outlining. Curiously enough, as a total novice on my first book, I was following one of the methods. Cool to learn that. Thanks so much Mr. La Ronn...great information. " Beats and Pre-Production" describes my amateurish efforts perfectly.
A few minutes in. As a teacher of dynamic presenting, this is so much better than most instructional vlogs. You have a calm voice. There is one simple way to make it even better. Just increase the pause for 1 second after every cut. Now, it is all edited together. Listeners need pauses to digest what they are hearing. It is like blank spaces after a paragraph to rest our eyes. Look at all good speakers they know the power of the pause and can manipulate it. It provides a podium for your next point. It makes me sit up and listen. By deleting the pauses, you take away the podium and risk sabotagingyour message. Pauses are good. Use them. Read about dynamic presenting, the importance of pauses after each point. You might think you are cleaning it up by editing out silences. Turn that around and add them on purpose after each point. Your speaking voice is great and calm. All very difficult to master, but then you mess it up with the edits that delete pauses, something that is easy to solve.
Thanks for doing the work of boiling all of these down to their essences. I appreciate the time and effort you put into making this knowledge accessible.
Very useful, thank you! I turned on TH-cam for some outlining advice half way through my first draft, which I brainstormed and wrote a lot of notes for at the outset but never a fixed outline. Your no10 reassured me that whilst I am casting about in the middle for a life raft, and I will draw myself one, I will probably not drown without it!
I am just writing my first story ever (just a fanfiction to get myself familiar with the writing craft) and this video was extremely helpful. It is a reminder that an authors writing style is unique to them and their genre. As you are a big fan of the Writing in the Dark method, authors like J.K Rowling and R.L. Stine plot everything down .
I've naturally blended and incorporated; - Heroes Journey - Mirror Moment - Snowflake method - Scenes and Sequels - Beats and production Had no clue until I watched this video, so thanks ;)
Thanks! I'm new to this. I tried being a pantser and found myself all over the place in writing my novel. I hope outlining will help ground me in my ideas and help me focus on this story instead of 10 others.
Great overview of outlining methods. I've always been an "Into the Dark" or exploratory writer myself but I'm always curious if these outline methods could help me (just been too lazy to try them). Keep making videos, these are helpful!
I thought I was writing a mixture of historical, paranormal, horror and mystery. But, just recently, I learnt my actual genre is Dark Fantasy. It is hard to outline dark fantasies because there are usually no heroes. Everybody is a villain! Because of this, outlining is really hard. I am searching for other dark fantasy novels, but it is really difficult to find them. Worse: many people label Dark Fantasy as Horror or Fantasy or High Fantasy. If only I could figure out my story's goal, I would probably create my own outlining technique. First novels are really hard! I hope they get easier!!! (I wish I had writer friends. lol.!)
+sasclom2 Try going to LibraryThing and using their tagmash tool. Use tags that describe what your novel is about and you'll find more dark fantasy novels than you know what to do with. :)
Thank you for this video. It is so clear and has made my writing goals less confusing. Thank you for your time and willingness to share your experience and expertise.
Was looking into some plot structure videos and found this. Love that you mention a few different methods. I was familiar with Lester Dent's and The Hero's Journey. I suppose I've used Campbell at times before, and I want to try Dent's, but recently I finished John Truby's The Anatomy of Story, and I personally love his approach. Was able to plot out two novels and a series of short stories with it (plus already tackle writing a few of these) in the last few months. Highly recommend writers try his method out.
I've been writing mainly in the dark for six unfinished novels, and I've decided to bite the bullet and try outlining to see if that helps 😂 thanks for this excellent overview of different methods!
I use the Lester Dent method. I feel empowered as a writer, using something like that, because it's so fluid and adaptable. I could write almost anything with it, and it will be entertaining no matter what.
My reading list just got bigger. Wish I could find great books like this for nonfiction writing. Thank you for providing this information. I am right brain and have difficult time outlining. Tried for 20 years now, finally give up. The last book seems very intriguing and I order that plus others just in case they can be helpful in any way whatsoever.
One way that I don't see listed in the description, which I think is worth mentioning, is the Dramatica theory of story. I'm not even sure of the best way to describe it, as I'm still new to it. I'd say it goes a bit deeper than an outlining guide, and say that it lets you discover the underlying dramatics that should be in your story.
+DK Fynn Good one. I've heard of Dramatica but am not too familiar with it. I left it out because it's quite complicated and would need its own separate video course. :)
Yeah, I heard of Dramatica months ago, but it can take years for a writer to grasp the full width and depth of it. Luckily, I don't think one has to have that extensive an understanding of it to begin using it's insights.
This content producer gives such practical advice and makes an important point throughout th8s video. Writers need to manage the business man and creative child within. Both need to work together to produce a product that people want to buy. Which is the ultimate satisfaction and goal of all writers. I think if authors don't continue to know the target audience then the boat is scuttled before the adventure has begun. Does n't matter how hard you paddle, your book goes no where past your own writing desk.
What I do, is just write all of my ideas into a google doc, and then in a new one I organize them in order, but the thing is, this is very flexible for me because I can work with it as I go. I tweak and tweak until it’s perfect. That way it is sort of between plotting and pantsing
HI, Michael. I like your approach to analysis. I've looked at all these approaches except the Story Grid. As a right-brain novelist, I;ve searched fir a way to climb up on a mountain and look down on the entire story outline as a whole, with easy way to see the plot points, turning points, whatever. Your voice is easy to understand and pleasant, unlike some of the squeaky female voices and some of the very strong British accents. As a result, I've just subscribed to your site and will buy one of your novels for Kindle. Good job, and many thanks. C. B. Hampton
Good distillation of the methods. For the Hero's Journey, Vogler and Hague have a great breakdown of two cycles for the hero. The Outer Journey (external events) and the Inner Journey (character transformation). Also, might be good to review methods like Save the Cat (filn and novel versions) and Katytastic's 3x9x27 block method.
Great video, thanks. For me, writing is dreaming with your eyes open. And buy a dog. Everytime I walk the dog, I write in my head. I don’t worry about forgetting an idea. If it is a good one, I surely remember it when I enter the house.
Awesome video! It gave me a lot of interesting ideas. I normally don't outline, but I'm working on something right now and I've realized that the reason I keep getting stuck is because while I know where I'm ultimately going, I have no idea how to get there. Since I've never outlined before, I think I might try to outline this, just to see how it goes. Thanks so much for your tips!
Really enjoyed this video. Very informative, well spoken and likable narrator. Thank you. Time well spent on this video. Looking forward to more videos from this person.
14:52 "Go grab some books because you owe it to your career." - Love it! 15:06 "Don't confuse simple with easy - you'll only truly understand things once you've tested them for yourself. Then you'll understand their pros and cons, which will make you a better author." - or a better everything, really.
Good stuff! As a long time wannabe writer, this sounds very helpful. I think outlining might be a strong resource for finally string some of my ideas together. Thanks!
Wow, this was a great run-down of different methods, some that I'd heard of and some that I hadn't (and will have to research further). Thanks for posting!
A very thorough overview. I'm using the Save the Cat! for novels this time, for book three. I agree that the Story Grid is rather overwhelming. I think it was useful to me as it gave me the idea of positive and negative changes at the end of each scene. If there's no change, then why have the scene? But as much as anything I envison the start of the novel and the end point, then figure out how to get the reader from start to finish, and what emotion I want them to feel when they finish. That gives me direction without being confining. Your series is a great service to emerging writers and I wish I'd found you sooner. Thank you.
Great video! Some methods I've never heard of... my personal favorite is The Story Grid. It's more complicated because the idea is to dissect an already written rough draft so you can identify areas that aren't working. It's more of an editing tool (which... there aren't very many out there).
Thank you for this. I usually start with one of these methods, but then the story takes on a life of it's own and I ditch the outline when I actually sit down to write. But formulas and outlines definitely help.
Writing my first book, and these tips helped! I keep jumping between outlining and just going for it! (Writing in the dark) I like just throwing words down on paper but I also do find outlining super helpful when going off the beaten path. But eh, I guess it isn't really a path I need to follow. For my first book, when I get down to it...I think outlining is important. But thanks for explaining the different ways of outlining, it did help!
Wow, I've read every single book mentioned in this video except Writing into the Dark. (Which I will go look up right now!) Just in terms of pure craft, I would also highly recommend Immediate Fiction by the late Jerry Cleaver. While the rest tend to talk more about architecture, this book focuses almost exclusively on how to make a scene pop. It took my writing to a whole new level. (Which isn't to say it took sales to a whole new level lol.) Good stuff Michael. May your old dragons continue to slay the red line!
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What's your favorite outline method?
Trying to adept heroes journey for ya fantasy
I've become a massive fan of scapple, as it allows any box to connect with any box on an infinitely large ,board'. I've been toying with methods over the last month, quite intensively and the freedom of layouts is great.
Scapple is good. :)
What about non-ficton books?
Outside the scope of this channel right now honestly. But I would recommend Joanna Penn’s latest book, How to Write Nonfiction. It has pretty good overview of prepping to write your nonfiction book. Thank you for watching the video!
Great video!! I built a hybrid: The Netflix Method. Imagine your story as a multi season, multi episode show. Let's say you pick 5 seasons with 10 episodes each. Now write your story in 50 short sentences, each being the headliner of the episodes.
Lastly imagine these sentences as your checkpoints, on a cross country road trip. You know where your going, but there are many details to discover along the adventure. Each check point you write, you already know the next one.
The reason I posted this is I am wondering if it makes sense to other writers and is usable.
Interesting!
this sounds like a great way to both 1) keep track of the story structure in a cohesive overview and 2) force yourself to write a one-sentence core summary/storyline for each "episode" of the novel. this probably helps a lot to make sure each episode is not too long and not too short, yet each episode has one specific storyline that adds to the story development thanks!
I love this idea!
Interesting idea. I like it because it's visual too.
That's very interesting. It's actually a great way to relate visually to plotting. The only thing I would add is to pick out episodes that will be turning points, critical points, doorways, etc. Not that my suggestion is an improvement, more just a way for it to better suit me personally.
A natural teacher. To the point, no superfluous dialogue. Love his videos. Sooo many great ideas.
Thank you! :)
OH, good, I'm so glad "writing into the dark" is a legitimate approach. I started looking into how to outline and plot my stories, because I've always just written scene-by-scene and letting the story take ME for a ride instead of me laying down the tracks for the story to follow. I've always enjoyed that approach, because I don't know what's going to happen next until it happens, and I feel that makes for a more exciting story. But I thought it was an improper or bad method since I always hear of people being organized, and having a clear idea of their story before they write it, while I'm over here, a chaos gremlin, slapping words on a page with sugar water and seeing what sticks.
I may not change that, then!
Honestly, a perfect video. This is one of the most intelligent and helpful overviews I have seen. Simple clean background, no gimmicky graphics, only what is necessary for clarity. And an incredibly likable presenter. Instant subscribe. Please keep doing it like this!
This ^
Yep! What he said^
Exactly! ^
Completely agree.
The easiest novel I've ever written was one my daughter and I brainstormed. We wrote down all the plot points. She was a bit of a captive audience, as the two of us were driving from Ohio to Oklahoma from a family reunion in 1996. I'd been listening to the radio while she was napping. Don't remember what the commercial was for but we were on the short side of St. Louis. It got my mind to running 10,000 miles faster than our car. I usually carry small legal notepads in the car and I told her to get one out. By the time we made the border between Oklahoma and Missouri, we had 16 pages of notes. I started working on it and finished the first draft in about 6 weeks. It's since grown from a 55,000 word novel to a 90K word novels. I now ask her to brainstorm with me all the time. And I still keep those small legal notebooks in the car all the time.
+Sharolyn Wells Wow, that's great. What a bonding experience too!
She and I have always been close. Her father and I went through a legal separation when she was 6 months old. We remarried in 1991. She and I have been brainstorming lately on a fantasy novel that I hope to get started on when I finish my present WIP.
I already have an agent who wants to read a novel in the four genres I write in.
It's not the words that matter. It's the sales and the value.
Great, your next book should be about you and your daughter who write stories together on road trips.
My personal method is to write down my “core values” or things I want to stay true to the story, character, world, etc, and then basically write into the dark after that. So I have at least a basic guide to tell me if I’ve gone off track.
Nice work! Some of these methods are new to me. I incorporate several of these into my process (which is basically a 9-beat outline that has 3-act structure & plot points).
However, I don't really recommend outlining for beginners. I agree that it can become a trap. For new writers, the best approach is writing daily, scene by scene, or outlining as they go. Until a person has sufficient experience/ mileage from writing tons of words, even the best of outlines probably won't lead to full novels. The reason is that we all lose motivation more quickly when following an outline. Even for experienced authors, the middle of a first draft often feels like a chore. The difference is that they can keep going anyway bc they know that the feeling of resistance doesn't mean there's a problem.
A piece of bad advice I often see online & from writing teachers/ coaches is "if you're bored while writing, then your writing will bore readers." That's not only false, it's poisonous. It creates a toxic mindset where writers verbally vomit all their fun, wild thoughts. Instead of writing fiction, they end up engaged in an enjoyable but otherwise fruitless journaling exercise. The fastest way to bore readers is with self-indulgent tripe that was fun for the author to write but lacks any narrative or character arcs and fails to make/ fulfill promises to the reader.
This absurd non-advice is equally common & poisonous in other creative fields, too, like: "audiences can see if an artist didn't have fun making the painting." No! The final process of rendering in visual media or editing fiction is almost never fun. Imagjne if this advice was given to professionals in other fields. What if a heart surgeon was told that he should be having fun while doing his job?! LOL 😆
I'm familiar with 6 of these but it seems that every project needs a different plan of attack. Thanks for adding to my solution list!
This is a great video, I've spent countless hours watching and reading different outlining advice and still haven't heard half of these. And yes, those unexplored ideas were the ones that most appealed to me, in particular the story grid and beats and preproduction.
As an intuitive pantser, I found getting enough sleep, being alone and binge listening to music the best ways to start writing. Once the creative juice stops, it stops for the rest of the day and there is no point in trying to force myself to keep writing to hit that quota because whatever I will produce under forced conditions will be of vastly inferior quality than what I would do had I just gone to bed and started the next day. I end up having to heavily edit and/or rewrite the forced bits, which kills my motivation.
Personally, I'd call myself a hybrid outliner/pantser. I make a barebones outline laid out along the lines of a three-act structure, but I only fill in minimal details (like specific scenes I want to include if anything is already in my mind). Then I "pants" my way to each of these checkpoints along the way, occasionally having to tweak the structure midway because something really cool develops along the way.
I want to keep as much spontaneity as I can as well because it has served me well in the past. In my first thriller back in 2013 (The Goddess of Strife), I had a bit character, Emma Sandsmark, whom I planned to use in only one scene near the beginning, work her way into eventually being a co-lead by the final draft! Allowing her to "live" completely changed the story for the better, so I'm glad I didn't limit her potential with an overly strict outline. But on the other hand, without any outline at all, a novel can quickly become an utter mess!
Most of the structure based outlining methods are variations of each other at a more or less detailed level. You can easily overlay the Hero Journey onto the three act structure and supplement it with the plot points and pinch points and synchronise with the grid
I just came across this podcast while looking at how to outline. It has been the best one yet, by far! Thank you.
It's been helpful to me, as I've been playing around a lot with structuring methods and ideas. Stories tend to tell me at some point, what they want me to do. Some gets finished 'straight into the dark' other get plotted carefully. I'm a visual artist too ( though mainly a writer these days): when you learn perspective really well, you see it as you draw without laying out all the lines and vanishing points. Having a variety of plotting methods in the noggin can help with steaming straight on, seeing the structure 'upstairs', sometimes with less 'line drawing'. Good video. Thanks.
No right or wrong way, Gary. Good for you for being self-aware on what works best for you.
I like your energy and presentation style. When I see one of your videos come up in a search, I know I will not be disappointed.
Hi Michael. Thanks for this cogent summary of a broad range of plot outlines. I have a taught creative writing on the graduate-school level (MFA) and still learned quite a bit from your presentation. Great food for thought as I begin my next project. Keep up the good work.
+Robert Hammond Thanks a lot. I'm glad the video gave you some food for thought. Good luck with your next project!
Utter high quality and synthesis. What an awesome video.
Thank you for producing and sharing this mate.
After watching this video, I realized that the novel I'm working on right now follows the plot point outline structure.... even though I didn't outline it that way. :) I like it when these formulas back up things you do instinctually already. I also tend to use beats as I go, but I never knew that was the name for it. I have been watching a lot of your videos the last few days, and they're really helpful. Also listening to Old Dark on Audible on my way into work in the mornings. I'm really enjoying it so far!
Yes, it’s amazing how we instinctively do things that other writers have been doing for years. And thanks so much for buying Old Dark. Glad you are enjoying it!! :)
This video is extremely detailed and helpful. I further appreciate your referencing. I consume your content daily and this video needs more attention. Thank you friend
Thank you for putting them all in one place. Being new to writing novels, I have studied most of these, but then trying to go back and find a specific thing "I once read" is next to impossible. Thanks again for doing this video!
My favorite outlining method was once the three act structure, plot point, hero’s journey, and Lester Dent’s Master Plot Formula. But now, Mike, my favorite method (or technique) of outlining is scenes and sequels technique. It’s my favorite because there is no downside to it. And you can use it to write out your story or novel the way you “write into the dark”. Also I can use the micro action-reaction technique called ‘motivation-reaction units’ or MRU. Read it in Techniques of the Selling Writer and you’ll see what I mean.
Great video!
Techniques of the Selling Writer is a Fantastic book. I especially enjoy Creating Characters by Swain. It's even better in my opinion.
@@AuthorLevelUp Thanks! I have Creating Characters by Swain. It’s great, too, but I love the Scenes and Sequels method and actually currently writing a story without outlining using the method. All I (and writers) have to do is follow the method in your head.
I like the one about starting from the middle or the beginning of the character transformation, as the story I’m outlining is more about complex character growth instead of a complex plot.
Glad to see you include the Heroine's Journey. The movie Mulan is the perfect example.
This is a fantastic overview of each outlining technique as well as the pros & cons of each. Thank you!
There's a pantser outline. 😲 This sounds awesome! I have tried outlining. I did and didn't care what happened next. But, an idea of where to shoot sounds perfect for me. Thank you!
I am a new novel writer, kinda feel lost regarding how to outline (or should I outline) so I just write my novel out, and then, when you mentioned the Writing in the Dark method, I began to realize that method was the best fit for me. Big thanks!
This was enjoyable and informative. Great presentation of some things I knew, but more that I didn't! I appreciate all the links, too.
+Julie Reeser Thanks. Glad you found it helpful. :)
That writing from the middle method could come in handy! Thanks Michael!
Thanks for watching!
This is the no glam, concise, to the point lesson on different outline methods and you are a fabulous teacher. Thank you. It makes me wonder because it seems that you might be a very focused writer by the precision of your communication and how you come across as organized. I on the other hand am not terribly focused or organized which is a great revelation to me because it helped me understand my writing style. After many different outlines which resulted in the beginnings of many different stories then went flat once I felt uninspired to write past the main crux of the story because it was lost in trying to stay within the framework that I mapped out. "Writing into the dark" is a lot more my style where I enjoy the journey and allow it to take me on twists and turns. Those beginnings can then be combined and woven into the matrix of my story and I find that really fun. I do like finding visuals and music to keep me in the groove. The main drawback is - as you've mentioned - that I can prep for the story so much that I forget to even write it. My stumbling block is the very thing that keeps me writing is that I love to live what I'm writing. It is an emotional journey for me that becomes too draining for me to not write it as I feel it (or see it) than to waste that emotion on outlines.
Now I will add, writing from the middle is also an interesting way to write but my writing does jump around and needs substantial editing by the second draft which is where I derive the most pleasure from writing honestly because that is where I can see how it all fits. It is seeing where it will take me as I let it flow that blows my mind and I can't hardly write any other way.
One thing I find is as long as I'm staying emotionally true no matter how off the wall the subject or characters, the more it keeps the audience resonating with the story in general.
I appreciate your comment. It embodies how key exploration and self-awareness are to a Writer’s Journey. Everyone’s different-what matters is that you know HOW you are different so you can focus on your strengths.
Thank you! I was hammering away at my new novel (based on a screenplay I've already written) and I started getting interested in outlining to keep track of my different plotlines. The Story Grid sounded like it was right up my alley... but the more I tried to work it the more confused I got (over the larger grid - there were some ideas there I really liked and will keep), I wasted a least two weeks getting no writing done at all. I ended up abandoning it totally, but felt like a failure for not being able to really understand it or how it pertained to my novel. Thanks for letting me know it isn't just me, this is really difficult. :)
This was such a helpful video. In an effort to improve my writing, I am trying to get better at outlining and stop being such a 'pantser'. This video was exactly what I needed! Thank you!
+chelle7611 Thanks for watching
Eye opener! I've subscribed and I'm working my way through a lot of your back catalogue of uploads now. Thank you for sharing. 👍
The plot point structure came to solve my problems, finally, THANK YOUUU
Fantastic! I have been writing with the beats and preproduction method and DID NOT KNOW IT! I thought I was cheating or doing it wrong. I'm so glad I have found your videos, every one I watch gives me more confidence!
I think this is the video that has help me THE MOST of all the videos out there I've seen about writing and outline . Thanks ♥
Absolutely ridiculous that this channel doesn't have more subscribers.
(Nice video BTW. Many Thanks.)
This was a great survey! Putting these ways of thinking about writing side-by-side was a great idea! Thank you!
"The Story Grid by Shawn Coyne" I read this recently. It is geared more towards editing. As Shawn says, don't mix writing and editing. I am definitely struggling with outlining my first novel. The Story Grid did help me clarify Genre, which for my book is horror. (I did not see that coming.)
Thank you so much for getting to the point. I can't tell you how many videos I've gone through where people claim to provide this info but just end up talking about themselves. Also, thank you for the links. These have been super helpful.
Great descriptions of these outlining methods. Thanks for such a well done explanation.
WOW! Just the very best stuff I've read on outlining. Curiously enough, as a total novice on my first book, I was following one of the methods. Cool to learn that. Thanks so much Mr. La Ronn...great information. " Beats and Pre-Production" describes my amateurish efforts perfectly.
A few minutes in. As a teacher of dynamic presenting, this is so much better than most instructional vlogs. You have a calm voice. There is one simple way to make it even better. Just increase the pause for 1 second after every cut. Now, it is all edited together. Listeners need pauses to digest what they are hearing. It is like blank spaces after a paragraph to rest our eyes. Look at all good speakers they know the power of the pause and can manipulate it. It provides a podium for your next point. It makes me sit up and listen. By deleting the pauses, you take away the podium and risk sabotagingyour message. Pauses are good. Use them. Read about dynamic presenting, the importance of pauses after each point. You might think you are cleaning it up by editing out silences. Turn that around and add them on purpose after each point. Your speaking voice is great and calm. All very difficult to master, but then you mess it up with the edits that delete pauses, something that is easy to solve.
Thanks for doing the work of boiling all of these down to their essences. I appreciate the time and effort you put into making this knowledge accessible.
Very useful, thank you! I turned on TH-cam for some outlining advice half way through my first draft, which I brainstormed and wrote a lot of notes for at the outset but never a fixed outline. Your no10 reassured me that whilst I am casting about in the middle for a life raft, and I will draw myself one, I will probably not drown without it!
Thank you, Mr. La Ronn. I was making a real mess of my original material, now I think a I've got a clue on how to fix it. this is great!
I've never found anyone who explained these so well. Totally have yourself a new subscriber!
Thank you!
This is one of the best writing advise videos I have seen. Congratulations on a job well done.
Thank you. :)
I am just writing my first story ever (just a fanfiction to get myself familiar with the writing craft) and this video was extremely helpful. It is a reminder that an authors writing style is unique to them and their genre. As you are a big fan of the Writing in the Dark method, authors like J.K Rowling and R.L. Stine plot everything down .
First timer here. I feel smarter after watching this vid. The pace was just right. Great info. Thank you. Subscribed.
Thanks for the video, super helpful summing up of resources out there! I'm definitely going to read Writing into the Dark.
I've naturally blended and incorporated;
- Heroes Journey
- Mirror Moment
- Snowflake method
- Scenes and Sequels
- Beats and production
Had no clue until I watched this video, so thanks ;)
Thanks! I'm new to this. I tried being a pantser and found myself all over the place in writing my novel. I hope outlining will help ground me in my ideas and help me focus on this story instead of 10 others.
There are many ways to do it. Good on you for finding what works best for you! :)
Great overview of outlining methods. I've always been an "Into the Dark" or exploratory writer myself but I'm always curious if these outline methods could help me (just been too lazy to try them). Keep making videos, these are helpful!
I thought I was writing a mixture of historical, paranormal, horror and mystery. But, just recently, I learnt my actual genre is Dark Fantasy. It is hard to outline dark fantasies because there are usually no heroes. Everybody is a villain! Because of this, outlining is really hard. I am searching for other dark fantasy novels, but it is really difficult to find them. Worse: many people label Dark Fantasy as Horror or Fantasy or High Fantasy.
If only I could figure out my story's goal, I would probably create my own outlining technique. First novels are really hard! I hope they get easier!!! (I wish I had writer friends. lol.!)
+sasclom2 Try going to LibraryThing and using their tagmash tool. Use tags that describe what your novel is about and you'll find more dark fantasy novels than you know what to do with. :)
Author Level Up I looked at the website. Thank you so much!!
+sasclom2 Anytime!
Wow, you are a gem. Thanks for this insight that actually helps. So many videos on here are low quality both on execution and advice.
Thank you for this video. It is so clear and has made my writing goals less confusing. Thank you for your time and willingness to share your experience and expertise.
Was looking into some plot structure videos and found this. Love that you mention a few different methods. I was familiar with Lester Dent's and The Hero's Journey. I suppose I've used Campbell at times before, and I want to try Dent's, but recently I finished John Truby's The Anatomy of Story, and I personally love his approach. Was able to plot out two novels and a series of short stories with it (plus already tackle writing a few of these) in the last few months. Highly recommend writers try his method out.
Intro is golden, I'm hooked🤣
I've been writing mainly in the dark for six unfinished novels, and I've decided to bite the bullet and try outlining to see if that helps 😂 thanks for this excellent overview of different methods!
I use the Lester Dent method. I feel empowered as a writer, using something like that, because it's so fluid and adaptable. I could write almost anything with it, and it will be entertaining no matter what.
My reading list just got bigger. Wish I could find great books like this for nonfiction writing. Thank you for providing this information. I am right brain and have difficult time outlining. Tried for 20 years now, finally give up. The last book seems very intriguing and I order that plus others just in case they can be helpful in any way whatsoever.
One way that I don't see listed in the description, which I think is worth mentioning, is the Dramatica theory of story. I'm not even sure of the best way to describe it, as I'm still new to it. I'd say it goes a bit deeper than an outlining guide, and say that it lets you discover the underlying dramatics that should be in your story.
+DK Fynn Good one. I've heard of Dramatica but am not too familiar with it. I left it out because it's quite complicated and would need its own separate video course. :)
Yeah, I heard of Dramatica months ago, but it can take years for a writer to grasp the full width and depth of it. Luckily, I don't think one has to have that extensive an understanding of it to begin using it's insights.
This content producer gives such practical advice and makes an important point throughout th8s video. Writers need to manage the business man and creative child within. Both need to work together to produce a product that people want to buy. Which is the ultimate satisfaction and goal of all writers. I think if authors don't continue to know the target audience then the boat is scuttled before the adventure has begun. Does n't matter how hard you paddle, your book goes no where past your own writing desk.
Thank you!
Brilliant video. Clear, helpful, and interesting. I'm so glad I stumbled across your You Tube channel.
Thank you again for your video Michael. I like your informative and friendly style! Greetings from Finland!
What I do, is just write all of my ideas into a google doc, and then in a new one I organize them in order, but the thing is, this is very flexible for me because I can work with it as I go. I tweak and tweak until it’s perfect. That way it is sort of between plotting and pantsing
This was the best video I've seen on outlining so far. Thanks for the information!
HI, Michael. I like your approach to analysis. I've looked at all these approaches except the Story Grid. As a right-brain novelist, I;ve searched fir a way to climb up on a mountain and look down on the entire story outline as a whole, with easy way to see the plot points, turning points, whatever. Your voice is easy to understand and pleasant, unlike some of the squeaky female voices and some of the very strong British accents. As a result, I've just subscribed to your site and will buy one of your novels for Kindle. Good job, and many thanks. C. B. Hampton
Good distillation of the methods. For the Hero's Journey, Vogler and Hague have a great breakdown of two cycles for the hero. The Outer Journey (external events) and the Inner Journey (character transformation).
Also, might be good to review methods like Save the Cat (filn and novel versions) and Katytastic's 3x9x27 block method.
Great video, thanks. For me, writing is dreaming with your eyes open. And buy a dog. Everytime I walk the dog, I write in my head. I don’t worry about forgetting an idea. If it is a good one, I surely remember it when I enter the house.
This was a great video. Thank you for making it!
Awesome video! It gave me a lot of interesting ideas. I normally don't outline, but I'm working on something right now and I've realized that the reason I keep getting stuck is because while I know where I'm ultimately going, I have no idea how to get there. Since I've never outlined before, I think I might try to outline this, just to see how it goes. Thanks so much for your tips!
That's a very good summary; thank you.
Amazing breakdown! Thanks for your time.
Really enjoyed this video. Very informative, well spoken and likable narrator. Thank you. Time well spent on this video. Looking forward to more videos from this person.
Thank you very much. Glad you enjoyed the video!
14:52 "Go grab some books because you owe it to your career." - Love it!
15:06 "Don't confuse simple with easy - you'll only truly understand things once you've tested them for yourself. Then you'll understand their pros and cons, which will make you a better author." - or a better everything, really.
Thanks a lot. This is making me think about screenwriting which is a passion of mines. I havent finished any yet lol.
Just found your channel, thanks so much man - all of this really helps a TON. I picked up writing into the dark, pray for me.
Very helpful. I know some of these and look forward to investigating some of the others. Thank you.
Good stuff! As a long time wannabe writer, this sounds very helpful. I think outlining might be a strong resource for finally string some of my ideas together. Thanks!
Well done! Thank you for introducing me to the ideas involved.
Of course! And thanks for watching.
Awesome video! So much information on methods I never knew existed. Thank you!!!!
Wow, this was a great run-down of different methods, some that I'd heard of and some that I hadn't (and will have to research further). Thanks for posting!
Thanks for another great video, Michael! Loved that you gave us pros and cons of each! Never heard of the mirror one before and I’m super intrigued 😊
Glad it was helpful!
just the summary was looking for. Thanks
This is beyond brilliant and low key kind of love you. About to binge your channel 😂
Thanks for watching. Happy binging! :)
A very thorough overview. I'm using the Save the Cat! for novels this time, for book three. I agree that the Story Grid is rather overwhelming. I think it was useful to me as it gave me the idea of positive and negative changes at the end of each scene. If there's no change, then why have the scene? But as much as anything I envison the start of the novel and the end point, then figure out how to get the reader from start to finish, and what emotion I want them to feel when they finish. That gives me direction without being confining. Your series is a great service to emerging writers and I wish I'd found you sooner. Thank you.
So I guess I’m a combo: “Beats into the dark.”
Great video.
Great video! Some methods I've never heard of... my personal favorite is The Story Grid. It's more complicated because the idea is to dissect an already written rough draft so you can identify areas that aren't working. It's more of an editing tool (which... there aren't very many out there).
Great video! You are fantastic at explaining things. Thank you for your time and effort
Helpful video and it opened my eyes. Great Job! Very crisp explanation and on point! Thank you.
Thank you for this. I usually start with one of these methods, but then the story takes on a life of it's own and I ditch the outline when I actually sit down to write. But formulas and outlines definitely help.
You are a star fella..
Thank you very much Sensei! You're super helpful bro
Writing my first book, and these tips helped! I keep jumping between outlining and just going for it! (Writing in the dark) I like just throwing words down on paper but I also do find outlining super helpful when going off the beaten path. But eh, I guess it isn't really a path I need to follow. For my first book, when I get down to it...I think outlining is important. But thanks for explaining the different ways of outlining, it did help!
Thank you, man! Helped out A LOT! *Virtual hug*
What a great resource and overview of how to plot stories! Thank you!
+CurlySimmer Thanks for watching. :)
Wow so I just learned that I use the writing in the dark method combined with the three act.
Wow, I've read every single book mentioned in this video except Writing into the Dark. (Which I will go look up right now!) Just in terms of pure craft, I would also highly recommend Immediate Fiction by the late Jerry Cleaver. While the rest tend to talk more about architecture, this book focuses almost exclusively on how to make a scene pop. It took my writing to a whole new level. (Which isn't to say it took sales to a whole new level lol.)
Good stuff Michael. May your old dragons continue to slay the red line!