What I've learned from my own failures on marathon field. First you need aerobic base to be able to do more km/miles per week and to be ready to do next training earlier with no fatigue. Before I was constanlty overtraing, I wasn't able to do 'predicted' times extrapolaited from 10km results and was cut off around 35-37km. Then incorporate faster interval and tempo training to let your body get used to runinng at higher speed. Those trainings will be faster than marathon pace, but will be shorter to allow proper recovery. Still do recovery and steady runs! Finally, do longer runs in marathon pace, but still shorter than marathon itself. 2 weeks before race I did my longest single run 35km even slighlty faster than marathon pace, I felt strong and I knew I was ready. That also gave a lot of confidence boost. That way it worked for me, I did my PB this year and finished in 'relative' comfort without any crisis.
To be able to go onto TH-cam and get knowledge like this is mind blowing.. you are an amazing athlete but equally as generous too share invaluable videos, knowledge and experience with us the viewers. Thank you so much Stephen.
The trick is to prepare your mind/body for the more intense running of the race. If you only do easy running, all the adrenaline and cheering in the world won't allow you to over perform. You have to do lots of faster training bouts in order to handle the hoped for race performance level. But, you also have to train your mind to not give up on yourself when it gets tough. So a lot of short repeats that train you to stop at exhaustion would be counterproductive. I believe that every workout should be intense enough, but should still leave you with the feeling that you could have kept going.
@@dli960 Of course. It's just that you reminded me of all the times I have peaked for shorter races and did better than I thought I would, but then find that my practice sessions afterwards couldn't match my race performance. I got worse after the race, just like you said. I read a long time ago in some journal of sports medicine that the hormonal and enzyme response of overly fatiguing workouts programs your brain chemically to hold back in future efforts. I psych myself out easily, so I tend to believe that negative feedback idea.
I learned early on in my running that if I could hold back just enough to finish a run "strong" it made the world of difference . It made every run feel like a win , which in turn made it easier to turn the door nob the next time . If I was completely deflated from not hitting a goal pace for the whole run or fell off right at the end , it's like tripping 30 m from a finish line and 10 people passing you.
My build up was probably the best it's ever been, until 6 weeks ago - I got injured, training went from 50-60 miles per week to 35 miles per week. I went into my race yesterday knowing I wouldn't break 3:15, but I knew I could get close to my PR of 3:22:29. I ended up getting to mile 19 before these huge repeating hills crushed me. I ended up run/walking 10-20% of the last 6.5 miles and ran a 3:26 - so I know I had pushed as hard as I could with the training I did have and the good nutrition plan I had. The goal this build was to run 5 runs 20+ miles to get my body used to those long miles and KNOW I would break 3:15 - yesterday was a "well let's see what happens, and be okay with the result". Also most people run 0.2-0.5 miles longer than the actual "marathon" distance.
Is all about energy. How you develop your energy systems, how you learn to recognize your energy levels and finally how you manage these energy levels. Over that you put the pacing, mindset, racing strategy, etc
Your humble experience and direct talk have made me aware of few errors I have been doing during my training. I just ran Berlin Marathon and slowed down a lot in the second half of the race. I will follow your advice and correct those errors. Thanks a lot. Subscribed.
During my training block, I signed up for a 10k and half marathon race, the 10k was 5 weeks out and the half was 3 weeks out. Got HUGE PBS in both of them, 33:53 in 10k (2 minutes quicker) and 1:16:17 in the half which was 4 minutes quicker. It was also the hottest day of the year for the half, same day as the GNR. That race was good prep as this sunday, i'll be running chester marathon, amongst another heatwave, but having already rehearsed running a PB in even hotter conditions, it's put my mind at some ease knowing I can handle the heat.
Great message Stephen thanks!! I neglected the shorter stuff last year when training for Dublin and primarily focussed on marathon effort...which destroyed me on race day ...this year however, i have been focussed on all distances and paces and realky feel the difference in fitness and confidence!
I am 13 days out from a 50km race (5 x 10km loops). I haven't run a marathon, but I did a HM in the spring, in which I had to walk/run the last 5 km. I did a 36 km run yesterday, with hydration and bathroom breaks, and I feel confident that I will complete the run before cutoff. I have been following Stephen for about six months now and I have found his videos to be of great help. Cheers from Canada John
love these videos!! i'm nowhere near elite (3h57min marathon PR as of june) as i'm mostly focused on cross country but i'm planning to go all out and do competitive marathoning after college. using these years where i'm focused on the 6k and 10k to research and plan for my marathoning career so i can hit the ground running :)
Scullion, great info. I am a living example of missing these points and i have upcoming marathon next Sunday. Wish you would posted this video sooner 😢
🎉 They changed the course! Glad I just randomly checked the organizer's website, 3 weeks before my sub-45 10k PB attempt in a local city event (Dresden Quarter Marathon/HM/M). I've been training for 3 months even doing the whole "old" route (as it's been fr decades and as was listed in January and in June) to prepare mind and body, now just to see KM 2 and 3 run on a totally different route🎉😮. Guys, check your courses. Glad I did😅. of course I can put one or two runs along the new route.
Rank beginner here at 50. Loosing weight and just about ready to do my first 10k next week - but very slowly. My pace is 6.5-7min/km. So far, just getting out and running period, is the best advice for me. :) But I see the value of bringing up sprints to work that V02. My V02 just 44, and has been steadily going nowhere. I'd be so happy to see it finally come up just one point!
You nailed Stephen, thank you for reminding us to incorporate some fast(er) run sessions. It's easy to get obsessed by the slow/easy/aerobic base/MAF style approach and neglect leg speed. Of course, it can go the other way as well😄
Thanks for your wisdom!! I just finished a 14 mile run and achieved 13.1 PB along the way😂🤷♂️… my question is, my half marathon is in 6 weeks, so should I slow down my workouts? I’m guessing while it feels nice to PB during a workout it’s probably not the wisest from energy preservation perspectives… any advice would be appreciated!
I wish I had this info 30 years ago. Especially the part about why we gravitate to the marathon. It is because we like running slower. That is me. And much of the training advice neglects or minimizes faster work so we never hit our marathon racing goals and wonder why.
This sounds like very good advice. Yet, I've been a bit "hung up" on 80:20 running in recent years. What are your thoughts on this if you are still maintaining your faster 10k, half marathon paces? Surely, something has to give and 80:20 should become more like 70:30 or 60:40?
Stephen I have Dublin this day 4 weeks have done 3/4 30+km runs I struggle mentally after 28km anything you suggest to help combat it? I’m currently doing 60/70km weeks too! Love the channel
Each distance is a % of Vo2 max. Great athletes narrow that difference. It is important that time plays a role, your physiology is different when you run a 2hr race vs a 3hr race
I started my first marathon training this year with speed sessions and adding mileage. But i started getting niggles and injuries. So i adjusted my plan to cut out the track and hard 5k park runs. It has worked but i always do tempo/threshold runs mid week for that speed endurance. Ive since added 1km intervals as i experienced exactly what stephen said my top speed ceiling was coming down. So far it has made my long run pace feel easier. Not ideal as ive wanted to run more miles and added more pace but my body isn't having any of it, so ive had to make the changes or id of got a long term injury and not be able to run.
Ran Kauai marathon this Sept placed 60 or 62. Majority was hills just hard hills. I never trained for those conditions. I strongly believe if put more focus on hills and hamstrings I would’ve placed top 20. Long distance training kept me going, finished strong but I know I could’ve flown if hills were part of my training. So don’t be afraid if you didn’t train hills, you’ll finish the race just won’t be as fast
Thank you for your video. What always amazes me is how relatively little the pace drops from 10k to half-marathon, and again from half-marathon to marathon - if I did not know myself I would guess that if the race is twice as long the pace must drop by 30-50 percent. But humans are endurance based animals. So instead, going from one to the other really feels like the same kind of running only slightly slower, just a couple of percent. If I look at my ability to run 10k, the marathon pace will, in my case, be about 5minute slower, instead of 3:40-3:45 I will hold 4:10-4:15 or something like that. That looks like slowind down a lot but it is "only" 30s per k. Instead of 220s per k, it is 250s per k about 13 percent drop. If I was a slower runner, the drop in seconds would be bigger but it would still be in that 12-15 percent area, I think. It is still sort of the same kind of running, it only feels comfortable for a much longer time - so when preparing, I am thinking about marathon as being able to run 10kPB plus 13percent of that time four times over and that little bit to the end. I think it can help me to see the huge structural demands of the marathon on both speed and endurance. Also being fit/fast means less suffering and shorter time spent in the race. If you only concentrate on covering the distance, you will propably only suffer more or about the same but for much longer :-).
I would be interested on a video on kit choice, maybe for amateurs who will be running a bit slower than 2 :09 marathons! I personally am signed up to my first marathon in Feb next year, and am expecting a cold wet English winter. I might need more than lycra shorts and a heart rate strap for that one!
I’ve got a question about running: In training to carry extra weight say with small dumbbells or light ankle weights…. Something I don’t really see is runners using this as a condition tool so that on race day your body can handle more…. Could lead to more injury’s but what do you think?
There’s no getting away from physiology--we will all run out of glycogen before the marathon is over. Therefore, it is essential-above all-to train the body to burn fat and conserve glycogen. That can only come from multiple long runs that go 2:20 to 2:30 or more in the build up. Plenty of people run the first 20 incredibly fast….and then they blow up and are walking in the last 10k….or they DNF. No mental toughness will ever get you past the brain shutting down glycogen burn--when it’s done, it’s done. 10k speed is important. HM speed is important, but it takes an back seat to a fat burning long run. Slowing down at the end of the marathon is due to one thing and one thing only--and that reason isn’t because you went easy on repeat mile day.
Preparing for dubkin in a few weeks. Suffering from very bad quad cramps which start around 25/26 k. Hydration and diet and magnesium are ok I think. And ideas or suggestions to prevent?
You probably won't be able to fix that in such a short time. It can be many reasons. Bad running techique/ economy, overtraining, not enough adaptation for the effort and so on.
Your quads are weaker than other parts > train more harder interval session for quad strength + more Strength training included Quad Eccentric load (Jump split squat, jump squat)
Thanks everyone. I have the stamina and sodium hydration isn’t the issue I think. I think could be lack of quads are weak. If stuck to the training plan and haven’t over trained. Been very consistent. I have been lacking a gym session last few weeks, adding this back in my help
What I've learned from my own failures on marathon field. First you need aerobic base to be able to do more km/miles per week and to be ready to do next training earlier with no fatigue. Before I was constanlty overtraing, I wasn't able to do 'predicted' times extrapolaited from 10km results and was cut off around 35-37km. Then incorporate faster interval and tempo training to let your body get used to runinng at higher speed. Those trainings will be faster than marathon pace, but will be shorter to allow proper recovery. Still do recovery and steady runs! Finally, do longer runs in marathon pace, but still shorter than marathon itself. 2 weeks before race I did my longest single run 35km even slighlty faster than marathon pace, I felt strong and I knew I was ready. That also gave a lot of confidence boost. That way it worked for me, I did my PB this year and finished in 'relative' comfort without any crisis.
To be able to go onto TH-cam and get knowledge like this is mind blowing.. you are an amazing athlete but equally as generous too share invaluable videos, knowledge and experience with us the viewers. Thank you so much Stephen.
this is far better advice then a specific training routine
The trick is to prepare your mind/body for the more intense running of the race. If you only do easy running, all the adrenaline and cheering in the world won't allow you to over perform. You have to do lots of faster training bouts in order to handle the hoped for race performance level. But, you also have to train your mind to not give up on yourself when it gets tough. So a lot of short repeats that train you to stop at exhaustion would be counterproductive. I believe that every workout should be intense enough, but should still leave you with the feeling that you could have kept going.
Awesome belief. Have you ever actually ran a marathon though
@@dli960 Of course. It's just that you reminded me of all the times I have peaked for shorter races and did better than I thought I would, but then find that my practice sessions afterwards couldn't match my race performance. I got worse after the race, just like you said. I read a long time ago in some journal of sports medicine that the hormonal and enzyme response of overly fatiguing workouts programs your brain chemically to hold back in future efforts. I psych myself out easily, so I tend to believe that negative feedback idea.
I learned early on in my running that if I could hold back just enough to finish a run "strong" it made the world of difference . It made every run feel like a win , which in turn made it easier to turn the door nob the next time . If I was completely deflated from not hitting a goal pace for the whole run or fell off right at the end , it's like tripping 30 m from a finish line and 10 people passing you.
My build up was probably the best it's ever been, until 6 weeks ago - I got injured, training went from 50-60 miles per week to 35 miles per week. I went into my race yesterday knowing I wouldn't break 3:15, but I knew I could get close to my PR of 3:22:29. I ended up getting to mile 19 before these huge repeating hills crushed me. I ended up run/walking 10-20% of the last 6.5 miles and ran a 3:26 - so I know I had pushed as hard as I could with the training I did have and the good nutrition plan I had. The goal this build was to run 5 runs 20+ miles to get my body used to those long miles and KNOW I would break 3:15 - yesterday was a "well let's see what happens, and be okay with the result". Also most people run 0.2-0.5 miles longer than the actual "marathon" distance.
Is all about energy. How you develop your energy systems, how you learn to recognize your energy levels and finally how you manage these energy levels. Over that you put the pacing, mindset, racing strategy, etc
Your humble experience and direct talk have made me aware of few errors I have been doing during my training. I just ran Berlin Marathon and slowed down a lot in the second half of the race. I will follow your advice and correct those errors. Thanks a lot. Subscribed.
During my training block, I signed up for a 10k and half marathon race, the 10k was 5 weeks out and the half was 3 weeks out. Got HUGE PBS in both of them, 33:53 in 10k (2 minutes quicker) and 1:16:17 in the half which was 4 minutes quicker. It was also the hottest day of the year for the half, same day as the GNR. That race was good prep as this sunday, i'll be running chester marathon, amongst another heatwave, but having already rehearsed running a PB in even hotter conditions, it's put my mind at some ease knowing I can handle the heat.
Great message Stephen thanks!! I neglected the shorter stuff last year when training for Dublin and primarily focussed on marathon effort...which destroyed me on race day ...this year however, i have been focussed on all distances and paces and realky feel the difference in fitness and confidence!
I am 13 days out from a 50km race (5 x 10km loops). I haven't run a marathon, but I did a HM in the spring, in which I had to walk/run the last 5 km.
I did a 36 km run yesterday, with hydration and bathroom breaks, and I feel confident that I will complete the run before cutoff.
I have been following Stephen for about six months now and I have found his videos to be of great help.
Cheers from Canada
John
Whistler 50?
@@aaronbr2001 It is!
@@alaskahudson Ill be there too. Good luck!
@aaronberghoffer2001 See you there Aaron! Have a great race!
7 days!
love these videos!! i'm nowhere near elite (3h57min marathon PR as of june) as i'm mostly focused on cross country but i'm planning to go all out and do competitive marathoning after college. using these years where i'm focused on the 6k and 10k to research and plan for my marathoning career so i can hit the ground running :)
This was such a great explanation. It was a lightbulb moment for me on how to get a faster marathon. Thank you
Scullion, great info. I am a living example of missing these points and i have upcoming marathon next Sunday. Wish you would posted this video sooner 😢
@Good-Deed yes same here, think I have covered most of it. Munich marathon for me this coming Sunday.
Good luck with your run.
Thanks Stephen. Interesting idea, hadn’t thought too much about the importance of maintaining top end speed. Great video
🎉 They changed the course! Glad I just randomly checked the organizer's website, 3 weeks before my sub-45 10k PB attempt in a local city event (Dresden Quarter Marathon/HM/M). I've been training for 3 months even doing the whole "old" route (as it's been fr decades and as was listed in January and in June) to prepare mind and body, now just to see KM 2 and 3 run on a totally different route🎉😮. Guys, check your courses. Glad I did😅. of course I can put one or two runs along the new route.
As always thanks for the amazing tips, hope all is going well in your training
Rank beginner here at 50. Loosing weight and just about ready to do my first 10k next week - but very slowly. My pace is 6.5-7min/km. So far, just getting out and running period, is the best advice for me. :) But I see the value of bringing up sprints to work that V02. My V02 just 44, and has been steadily going nowhere. I'd be so happy to see it finally come up just one point!
You nailed Stephen, thank you for reminding us to incorporate some fast(er) run sessions. It's easy to get obsessed by the slow/easy/aerobic base/MAF style approach and neglect leg speed. Of course, it can go the other way as well😄
‘‘Marathon effort, lovely 👏’’ Stephen Scullion 2023.
That would be good on a T-shirt.
AWESOME content, thank you Stephen
Thanks for your wisdom!! I just finished a 14 mile run and achieved 13.1 PB along the way😂🤷♂️… my question is, my half marathon is in 6 weeks, so should I slow down my workouts? I’m guessing while it feels nice to PB during a workout it’s probably not the wisest from energy preservation perspectives… any advice would be appreciated!
I wish I had this info 30 years ago. Especially the part about why we gravitate to the marathon. It is because we like running slower. That is me. And much of the training advice neglects or minimizes faster work so we never hit our marathon racing goals and wonder why.
You sound much better. Hope all is well.
This sounds like very good advice. Yet, I've been a bit "hung up" on 80:20 running in recent years. What are your thoughts on this if you are still maintaining your faster 10k, half marathon paces? Surely, something has to give and 80:20 should become more like 70:30 or 60:40?
“Howlin, heavin, might hear yourself breathin” - I’ve been saying this to myself when I’m doing v02
Stephen I have Dublin this day 4 weeks have done 3/4 30+km runs I struggle mentally after 28km anything you suggest to help combat it? I’m currently doing 60/70km weeks too!
Love the channel
Each distance is a % of Vo2 max. Great athletes narrow that difference. It is important that time plays a role, your physiology is different when you run a 2hr race vs a 3hr race
I started my first marathon training this year with speed sessions and adding mileage. But i started getting niggles and injuries. So i adjusted my plan to cut out the track and hard 5k park runs. It has worked but i always do tempo/threshold runs mid week for that speed endurance. Ive since added 1km intervals as i experienced exactly what stephen said my top speed ceiling was coming down. So far it has made my long run pace feel easier. Not ideal as ive wanted to run more miles and added more pace but my body isn't having any of it, so ive had to make the changes or id of got a long term injury and not be able to run.
Ran Kauai marathon this Sept placed 60 or 62. Majority was hills just hard hills. I never trained for those conditions.
I strongly believe if put more focus on hills and hamstrings I would’ve placed top 20.
Long distance training kept me going, finished strong but I know I could’ve flown if hills were part of my training. So don’t be afraid if you didn’t train hills, you’ll finish the race just won’t be as fast
I don't know why I trust him more than anyone else on TH-cam, not due to his credentials but due to the accent and enunciation
Thank you for your video. What always amazes me is how relatively little the pace drops from 10k to half-marathon, and again from half-marathon to marathon - if I did not know myself I would guess that if the race is twice as long the pace must drop by 30-50 percent. But humans are endurance based animals. So instead, going from one to the other really feels like the same kind of running only slightly slower, just a couple of percent. If I look at my ability to run 10k, the marathon pace will, in my case, be about 5minute slower, instead of 3:40-3:45 I will hold 4:10-4:15 or something like that. That looks like slowind down a lot but it is "only" 30s per k. Instead of 220s per k, it is 250s per k about 13 percent drop. If I was a slower runner, the drop in seconds would be bigger but it would still be in that 12-15 percent area, I think. It is still sort of the same kind of running, it only feels comfortable for a much longer time - so when preparing, I am thinking about marathon as being able to run 10kPB plus 13percent of that time four times over and that little bit to the end. I think it can help me to see the huge structural demands of the marathon on both speed and endurance. Also being fit/fast means less suffering and shorter time spent in the race. If you only concentrate on covering the distance, you will propably only suffer more or about the same but for much longer :-).
thanks for sharing this valuable information.
Great vid thank you
Great content...What half tights are you wearing in this post?
Great information 👍
Just got my place in Boston - thanks for the warning ;).
One of my biggest goals in life is Boston Marathon! Good luck on the run!
I would be interested on a video on kit choice, maybe for amateurs who will be running a bit slower than 2 :09 marathons! I personally am signed up to my first marathon in Feb next year, and am expecting a cold wet English winter. I might need more than lycra shorts and a heart rate strap for that one!
Thanks for another great video
I’ve got a question about running:
In training to carry extra weight say with small dumbbells or light ankle weights…. Something I don’t really see is runners using this as a condition tool so that on race day your body can handle more…. Could lead to more injury’s but what do you think?
I carry naturally extra weight and ITS Always a good Progress losing it😂
Good luck in Dublin!
Stephen, in your Instagram video, what treadmill make is that you're running on, the one with the band on it ?? Thank you👍
There’s no getting away from physiology--we will all run out of glycogen before the marathon is over. Therefore, it is essential-above all-to train the body to burn fat and conserve glycogen. That can only come from multiple long runs that go 2:20 to 2:30 or more in the build up. Plenty of people run the first 20 incredibly fast….and then they blow up and are walking in the last 10k….or they DNF. No mental toughness will ever get you past the brain shutting down glycogen burn--when it’s done, it’s done. 10k speed is important. HM speed is important, but it takes an back seat to a fat burning long run. Slowing down at the end of the marathon is due to one thing and one thing only--and that reason isn’t because you went easy on repeat mile day.
Perfect advise
First class video.. as always.
80% of the work seems to be dedicated to be a good runner. 20% is dedicated to a specific distance.
Yes it changed.....it used to be 40.5 k. The Queens fault is 42.2 😅
Preparing for dubkin in a few weeks. Suffering from very bad quad cramps which start around 25/26 k. Hydration and diet and magnesium are ok I think.
And ideas or suggestions to prevent?
What about sodium?
You probably won't be able to fix that in such a short time. It can be many reasons. Bad running techique/ economy, overtraining, not enough adaptation for the effort and so on.
Your quads are weaker than other parts > train more harder interval session for quad strength + more Strength training included Quad Eccentric load (Jump split squat, jump squat)
Thanks everyone. I have the stamina and sodium hydration isn’t the issue I think.
I think could be lack of quads are weak. If stuck to the training plan and haven’t over trained. Been very consistent. I have been lacking a gym session last few weeks, adding this back in my help
Also…..great channel and content! 👍
awesome
🎉
I spy Bushy Park in London.
00:21 well i guess that fella's got a bad back
Seriously, how difficult is it really to do it? A lot of TH-camrs do it without any training