Native Fantasy: Germany’s Indian Heroes | Times Documentaries | The New York Times
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ส.ค. 2014
- Germany’s biggest folk hero is an Apache named Winnetou who fights for justice outside of Hamburg. Best-selling author Karl May, who created him, never traveled to the American West.
Produced by: Axel Gerdau, Erik Olsen and John Woo
Read the story here: nyti.ms/1riANBs
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Native Fantasy: Germany’s Indian Heroes | Times Documentaries | The New York Times
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I should move to Germany and make money by being the only real Indian on their shows.
Graham Harris, lol. That's ingenious!
I am down with you my native brother
Graham Harris lol I was just thinking how come no natives have done that yet
Sometimes real natives from North America do come and visit. Look for a documentary called 'Searching for Winnetou' by CBC Documentaries
Graham Harris I just thought of that as well, know some German as well
Makes me feel like I would be very welcome in Germany
I'm german. This is absolutely true. Every! german child grows up with native american heros like winnetou. I would even say winnetou is a bigger hero than Siegfried the dragon slayer or Hermann. The stories are about different cultures and races (the white protagonists in the books who learned to do better) coming together to free people (saving natives together), its about the love of nature (wich is also a very important part of german culture in general), about friendship, about doing the right thing. When the kids play cowboy and indians its the natives who are the good guys and cowboys who are the bad ones, wich is probably different in the US.
me too because i share both bloodlines.
Pretty much, yes. We grow up with a very positive opinion about native americans.
When i was in italy once it wasn't the italians i was hyped about, it was a native american i've met at a festival.
Germans feel a deep admiration for the native americans.
Actually yes, in Germany most child’s have Indian heroes, I think authors like Karl may really implemented a picture of the Native American hero into our movies and books, which is in my opinion the correct way, seeing American soldiers portrayed as main characters in a movie about wounded knee, feels like seeing SS soldiers being the protagonists in a WW2 movie...
@@thisguy4490 I do too! My grandmother’s father was a German immigrant that came in the 1970s. I don’t know him well but he has a wife in Oklahoma.
As a native American I don't have any problem with this, I mean sure theirs a lot wrong with how the public perceives us, but if they're willing to learn more about our culture and philosophy's I don't see any harm.
But if they start digging up our graves and stealing artifacts from our ancestors, well you're going to be in a mess of trouble.
I'm german. This is absolutely true. Every! german child grows up with native american heros like winnetou. I would even say winnetou is a bigger hero than Siegfried the dragon slayer or Hermann. The stories are about different cultures and races (the white protagonists in the books who learned to do better) coming together to free people (saving natives together), its about the love of nature (wich is also a very important part of german culture in general), about friendship, about doing the right thing. When the kids play cowboy and indians its the natives who are the good guys and cowboys who are the bad ones, wich is probably different in the US.
I completely understand you, I have the same problem with my culture, knights are a big thing in Germany, but many country’s portray them soo wrong...and as seen in this video, Indians are too. :/ xD
I promise you in the name of my German people, that we'll never destroy your graves or rob something from u. There's no need for that. We even would reproduce it.
Well said!
@@genderfluidebananenmarmela3190 Sorry to disappoint you, but German museums are full of stolen artefacts and even human remains. There was a discussion by the Karl May Museum for several years (!) about returning some human remains (!) to the the original families who had asked for their return. Some have been given back very recently, but by far not all.
I live in Germany and am Anishinabe from Manitoba. Once people here find out I'm First Nations then I get the museum look and they start telling me about Winnetou. They love our people! Weird experience for me after having been taunted as a child & then later experiencing prejudice in the job market. Very ironic that I came to Germany to escape racism🤔.
Well, as a german myself i could still imagine that we are quite annoying by bothering you with Winnetou-stuff :'D
I mean it really is admiration and we romanticize you a lot but it guess it also could be quite burdening and exhausting to get treated like something special all the time.
I probably would treat you very normal, even if i was very excited and would like to ask so many questions :D
I'm Anishinaabe to, from Ontario, I'm also German on my dads side. I know what you mean by the racism and prejudice experienced here. I live in Alberta but it's everywhere. It is starting to change but its a slow process.
I am native and surprisingly not the least bit offended. German people seem like they have genuine interest and respect for native culture and native peoples.
Maybe modern day Apaches should dress up in German lederhosen and do German dances and Oktoberfest, lol.
Well, they are free to do so, the Octoberfest is long enough.
Lederhosen are Bavarian, so is Oktoberfest. Which really shows how important it is to be educated on American Indian culture - I know it bothers me when people think that I have anything to do with Bavarian stereotypes when I'm from the north of Germany, so it must be even more annoying (or worse) for American Indians to see their different cultures just mushed together like this.
Sure, why not. Would be interesting and funny to see the results ;))
why not?
well oktoberfest is a kind of harvest celebration isn't it ... kind of like our own thanksgiving
My father has Mayan/Pipil ancestry from El Salvador and Guatemala and when we had foreign exchange students from Germany stay with us they were SO INTRIGUED AND FASCINATED by the native/mesoamerican culture. In fact they knew more than my father. It was a great experience.
I've read all the Karl May books, and the "Indians" were always portrait as the best people on earth (well mostly this one tribe of course).
this video really surprised me in a positive way iam Native American decent the Oji-Cree Nation from Manitoba Canada think this the first time that we have been portrayed as hero's usaully we the savage blood thirsty as seen from America's eyes so to be seen as hero's is something special
I’m bit shock about learning this
I’m oji-Cree too by my adoptive family,
I’m also Cree from Manitoba and I’ve been to Germany where they’re obsessed with First Nations...I’ve been to this place but couldn’t watch the show due to schedule but some of it I found a bit insulting...anyways, if they are so interested in Natives I wonder if they’d also be willing to learn of the genocide and colonization of what happened
The angle James Cameron uses with the fantasy film Avatar , that film has some very well researched strong reflections and recognitions though its not perfect by any means there are visual acknowledgements within its core art examples ,, but there is also reflective material in the story that some can internally recognize , the five clans that were united after time of great sorrow in there history by a peacemaker, then a wounded warrior "Jake" sully,, (with a possible though not proven recognition of leader and tree planter Jake Swamp) that film is a primary example of "mirror storytelling" sort- of what's going on here, but If James Cameron had made Avatar a fictional film portraying real native peoples instead of Na'vi it would be looked upon as an act of cultural appropriation. James Cameron actually went to elders within these different nations to ask for there permission to use reflections of there cultural elements and got them first. then took the film examples back to them to see if they approved before using then in the movie.
@@marykay8587 You mean something like "Little Big Horn", That the white invaders started with scalping (as proof to get the bounty for each killed native american), that the "white man" broke mostly all contracts, that they used biological warfare by spending woolen blankets infected with rubella (or was it the measles?) to native indians which have no immunity against these bacterias, that governmental programs divided parents from their children (That should get a "christian" education) etc. - Yes we learn that at school in germany.
But Karl May is fiction. He was many times in prison and at his lifetime he could not travel (no money) and was not happy about the political system and way of "Civilisation" in pre-germany and monarchy germany until 1918 with his military order culture.
So he wrotes romantified stories about a better world where the "non civilized" (from that time european view) "tribes" where the better tribes and the european (german) culture the beast.
He also wrote Books about fictional travels to north-east Afrika through the Sahara dessert and their normadic tribes etc.
This is a big honor to me, being native Apache feels so good after been discriminated in America.
Look into your cultures connection to the swastika
I'm german. This is absolutely true. Every! german child grows up with native american heros like winnetou. I would even say winnetou is a bigger hero than Siegfried the dragon slayer or Hermann. The stories are about different cultures and races (the white protagonists in the books who learned to do better) coming together to free people (saving natives together), its about the love of nature (wich is also a very important part of german culture in general), about friendship, about doing the right thing. When the kids play cowboy and indians its the natives who are the good guys and cowboys who are the bad ones, wich is probably different in the US.
@@linguisticallyoversight8685 all cultures have connection to the symbol. it's not just called swastika everywhere sherlock
@@linguisticallyoversight8685 all cultures have connection to the symbol. it's not just called swastika everywhere sherlock
@@linguisticallyoversight8685 ??? I hope you learned more since this comment :D
I wonder how accurate they are in their presentation? Native Americans seem to be more respected in Germany 🇩🇪 than in their native lands of the Americas. 🇨🇦🇧🇷🇨🇱🇵🇦🇵🇪🇺🇸🇻🇪🇦🇷🇪🇨🇬🇹🇲🇽
Facts lmao
Don’t forget Puerto Rico
@@JS-vm7pg Peurto Rico is technically part of the U.S :)
Switch White's in America with Germans 🤣😂
Fr
🤚🏼🇩🇪🇺🇲🇧🇷🇦🇷🇨🇱🇲🇽
That's so cool, they see us as heroes. Our ancestors were fearsome warriors out of necessity, our way of life was in jeopardy.
Yes, but let's not forgot the "fearsome warriors" were engaged in plentiful and quite brutal tribal war before the white eye ever hit the american shores.
Yes thats true even to this day. In indigenous communities in Mexico and im sure here in USA as well sometimes theres family feuds and we endup killing each other, native against native. And in Mexico in states close to where im from in Morelos and Guerrero narcos are keeping up with the brutal ways of our ancestors. Beheadings and flaying enemies alive is a very common practice.
@@Mr.Brewer83A childish and pathetic argument. What one race does to another does not matter. Another race being involved in another is deserving of hate. In this case Europeans V Indigenous Americans.
I'm german. This is absolutely true. Every! german child grows up with native american heros like winnetou. I would even say winnetou is a bigger hero than Siegfried the dragon slayer or Hermann. The stories are about different cultures and races (the white protagonists in the books who learned to do better) coming together to free people (saving natives together), its about the love of nature (wich is also a very important part of german culture in general), about friendship, about doing the right thing. When the kids play cowboy and indians its the natives who are the good guys and cowboys who are the bad ones, wich is probably different in the US.
I was surprised to see action figures based on the show when I visited Zurich. Preiser railroad modeling also has Old Shatterhand.
My friend and I went to a circus in Cottbus, Germany. It was a typical small itinerant show that travels throughout Europe. It was a fun evening, which included Pippi Longstocking and a dancing bear. But the crowd went bonkers when the Indians came out. The Germans are very enamored of the Native American culture.
I wish America could celebrate its indigenous people like this! As a Native American I feel I would be welcomed by Germany.
Do you feel honoured or do you feel set down by this, as that display of your culture shall be far away from the truth? Keyword: cultural appropriation?
Germans have ever since been fascinated by the colonization of Nothern America. Well, they made up a big part of those pioneers. BUT there has always been a romantic view on this - in bad and good ways.
When German kids played robber and cop, thieve and police they played "Indian" and "Cowboy". Without any moral judgement - just as two different equal roles. So: Native Americans had always been a major part of German costumes, playing and carnival. But recently, some years by now, people discuss this as culturally inappropriate, of course it is a stereotypical display of native Americans. Shall you dress up like that or not? Those questions.
@@BlauerBooo you absolutely should allow people to dress up like that, I mean imagine a Native American dressing up as a knight, we can’t forbid him that, same the other way around. I also think that saying people of one culture can’t dress up as people of a different one is creating another gap between the people and could ultimately end up in a society where we have several classes. Imagine certain people wouldn’t be allowed to eat certain things or drive certain cars, only because they are a part/invention of this or that culture. 🤷🏼♂️
@Ibo Zambotnik bruh, you say white people can’t dress up like black people, but it’s ok if black people play roles in movies that in real live were white persons ? Bruh…
And no, that isn’t racism, you don’t seem to understand the subject, racism is, when one person thinks he is superior to another person because the other person is different in some way. Everything else is NOT racism because it’s not related to the actual „race theory“.
Also, how is it racism if the Native Americans are portrayed in a good way…in the 60s the Americans made western movies in which the Natives were always the bad guys, at the same time, The Germans made Western Movies As well, but the natives were never the bad guys, they were the heroes of these story’s.
@Ibo Zambotnik im Talking about historical people, I think it’s stupid in any way, I don’t want see a white guy play a black historic person but also don’t want to see a black guy playing a historic white person.
@Ibo Zambotnik well, that’s not true at all, we do appreciate culture, I for instance don’t dress up as an „indian“ as I know that I would looks hilarious, because I just don’t look like a Native American, but the fascist people wouldn’t dress up as Natives either, they wouldn’t dress up at all, as they would think that their culture is the only good one.
As American Indian or Native American, I always admired the Germans because they still hold unto their language and culture even after the war.
Weird flex but ok
@@coomr419 haha.. really weird 😅
Actually, that is no achievement as the German language was not endangered or forbidden after the war. It remained the natural language of the majority without questions.
While the Nazi Germans had endangered and forbidden indigenous minority languages inside Germany. The minority of the Romani people was targeted by the Nazis, many of them died in concentration camps. The minority of the Sorbs was not a target of genocide, but of culturecide. The plan was to assimilate them completely by destroying their language - by forbidding it. They removed the Sorbian teachers from the Sorbian schools and replaced them by Germans. From one day to the next, the Sorbian children had to speak German and were punished if they spoke their own language. But unlike to what was done to Native American children, the Sorbian children remained in their families, they had the love of their families surrounding them and they still could speak their language at home. And this was only 12 years, not centuries.
Still, until today, many Germans who know everything about Native Americans don't even know that the Sorbs exist - not unlike some US Americans who think Native Americans would not exist anymore. I met one of them on a plane. When I told her that I had been visiting Native American friends in North Dakota, she was totally surprised 1) that Native Americans still exist today and 2) that they do not usually live in tipis all the time.
The really admirable thing about the Germans is that the atrocities and the genocide of WW2 are taught to everyone in school - while the US fail to teach about the genocide of Native Americans in their schools.
Its a bit odd to see your own culture portrayed in mythological perspective archetypes. No surprise, but still odd.
I don't see why they dont just communicate with some actual north american Natives to get some authentic tribal knowledge.
+n8tivedragon It's not about authenticity and historical accuracy, it's about keeping the nostalgia of a literary hero alive. It's no different from Renaissance festivals or medieval reenactment conventions: they're more concerned with the tradition of the event and its influence on local culture rather than accurate portrayal of a specific historical age and culture.
Here in the u.s.a ( Native territory of all North American Native tribes numbering in the many hundreds ) we have grossly inaccurate portrayals of Native Americans all over the place, while many Native Tribes still exist and live in the u.s. too; plenty of the tribes having retained their language, old songs and dances, ancestral knowledge and ceremonies, and more. Its no surprise to see it mythologized and portrayed as mere fiction elsewhere.
We do not have grossly inaccurate portrayals of Natives all over the place. What are you trying to reference? The "red warrior" insignia adopted by a professional NFL team? The Wild West romances portrayed in old literature and Hollywood movies? What exactly do you think is being inaccurately portrayed?
Do you seriously think American children aren't taught about Native Culture or those participants in the countless Native/European conflicts? Children are taught about the European colonization. They know that thanksgiving isn't an accurate portrayal of native and pilgrim relations. They are aware of the countless wars between natives and settlers: (from the early small pox epidemic to the french-and-indian war and many conflicts in between), the political volleying, the deadly relocation campaigns like the trail of tears...even modern day political strife found in some reservation societies.
And this is the history from the white man's perspective because the Natives explicitly exclude whites from their society. That was their choice when they chose not to become indoctrinated. So the broad mythos of Native cultures, their legends, ceremonies and lore, are only learned piecemeal, as they're related to the whites because Natives don't happily volunteer this information to the world. Yet you, ironically, take offense if people *don't* know these cultural details.
Foreigners don't learn Native history the way Americans do, obviously, because it's not integral to their national history as it is to ours. Just as Americans don't memorize all the English, French, Portuguese, and Spanish Kings, Europeans don't learn every detail about the indigenous people of America--they only learn what is relevant to them and the conflicts they themselves participated in.
The Germans, in this case, idolize the literary hero, Winnegut, and the cultural ideals portrayed in that literature.
You think Natives are the only culture that have been misconceptualized in literature? Look at the Jews, for instance. The Nazi's printed countless children's books that vilified Jews and painted Germans as a pure, worthy race. They attached social stigmas to the jews to help incubate this national prejudice. They didn't at all represent the Jewish culture accurately. So it's not exclusive to Natives, but it was equally intentional. The author knew he was taking "creative liberty" with his portrayal of Native culture. It was no accident.
The novels these shows are based on were written in the 19th century by a man (Karl May) who has never ever been to the US or Canada. And of course the author´s depiction of the native americans ("Indians") came from the then romantic image of the "noble savage".
But these shows still are good for a thrilling adventure for 2 or so hours.
that's way beyond the point. they want the idea, not the reality. changes the story quite a bit
If anyones curious,the museum returned the scalps
Yes, but only after being bothered about it for 7 years.
@@jana_toh good ! Finally!
I am a Nakota red Indian from Canada. And I don’t mind the Germans. They are smart, honorable people imo
I was stationed in Germany and I was treated very well by the locals, I visited Pullman City and seen some pow wows, it was shocking at first
One of the rare occasions reading the comments under the video warmed my hearth... Native Americans still showing the right path, despite all the people that have nothing to do with it "being offended"...
Many Native Americans, including myself have an unexplainable inate gravitation towards Germans. It is a type of love that cousins or even brothers have. May our people always be united in peace and friendship. Love to Deutschland from a Quechuan.
Maybe because we germans were quite similar to you when we still were living as tribes 2000 years ago :) We were nomadic and very much bonded to nature.
Also people (the romans) tried to conquer and enslave us. Fortunately for us our land wasn't so easy for them and not very attractive to settle down to.
If our places would have been reversed we would have been genocides and you would have survived and evolved into an own nation.
I would have liked to see a native american nation.
Even today i wished that the USA would give you one of more states so you could build something on your own and be independend.
Fun fact: We have a kind of saying in German that Indians (Native Americans) are role models - especially for little kids - especially when it comes to tolerating pain. Ein Indianer kennt keinen Schmerz - >"An Indian knows no pain" is the German version of Man up! so to speak.
@@ulliulli That's true lol. Whenever I would complain my father would say "An Indian knows no pain".
And scoots etc
Indians by dark and German Assyrians are called chitite Caitite cananites and other Indians and are of Asia and native American also branch of Assyria the japeth line of Assyrians japeth in the bible Asian and native American line
This romanticize Native fantasy from Germany is a bit concerning actually. My friend, who is Native American and lives on the reservation, and his family house foreign exchange students. At one point his family took in a German student and she was very excited. They didn't know why until they brought her to their home from the airport and she asked them "where were the tepees?" She was excited because she thought she was going to live in a tepee and become "spiritual" with the Indians. So imagine her disappointment when she saw every Native lived in a regular house with basic cable. Boy did she learn something new! Anyway it was because of this ignorant girl that his family found out about the Germans and their fascination with Native Americans. She was quite weird and came off offensive at times to Natives. Although we knew she was just ignorant and harmless, it is still a bit concerning to see someone whole heartily believes in a stereotype.
+Nora Chrisler This is indeed weird, as the school should have provided a proper preparation for the student exchange. But maybe they had and the student just wanted to ignore reality.
I checked with my English texts back in the 1980s (fourth year of English meaning 8th grade dealt with US history and contemporary US life). They included a chapter on Native Americans with the following topics:
- brief history up to battle of Little Big Horn
- detailed description of Wounded Knee massacre
- living conditions on reservations
- AIM and Wounded Knee occupation in 1973
- Interview with Robert Burnette (Rosebud) on the boarding school system in the 1930s
- Interviews with students of Riverside Indian Boarding School, Anadarko, OK, in the 1980s
- Song "Now that the buffalo''s gone" by Buffy Sainte-Marie
Curriculums change, but slowly, so it it reasonable to assume that generations of German students have been and are still exposed to these topics in their English classes. Should be a good base for further research (if one is interested) and overcoming stereotypes.
+elgansitomolesto I never encountered any topics concerning American Indians in German school as far as I can remember. We barely covered the US Civil War too. All that I knew of American Indians was at first what German media conveyed (the Karl May stereotype) and then, later, what I saw in US TV Shows.
These days, at least, there is the internet, but without an incentive to search for accurate information that doesn't help all that much either. I'm trying to make up for the gaps left by the school system in these areas, though. I just wish the schools I went to had given me some basics at any point.
Nora Chrisler Karl May has also never been in America. It was all in his fantasy .so you see what came out. A fantasy world. Beautiful, but not realistic
I had a similar experience living in Tucson; lots of German tourists looking to larp a "real Native American experience". While I'm not native myself, I grew up in Arizona around "real Indians", so I was puzzled by all this. It's like people from New York who believe everyone in Arizona rides a horse to work. Needless to say, all these German Tourists left disillusioned.
reminds me of most stupid americans who go to germany the first time expecting to see nazis ... stupid stereotypes indeed!!
As a child I read all the books. They were written as entertaining adventure stories and they are perceived as such. At the end of the 19th century there was not so much information available for a little writer in a splittered Germany. But he created a unique character with Winnetou, sensible, smart, civilized (native, not european) and a promoter of peace, unity and integrity. And all inaccuracies set aside, this is still the way native Americans are overwhelmingly seen in Germany. Unfairly treated, but not helpless victims. Civilized and organized, not savage. Proud and independent. And a little bit idealized, that‘s true.
I am alright with some of it, as long as it's accurate and respectful to the culture. But some of the sterotypes are ughhh. Instead of hating
them we need to teach them the correct way.
I'm german. This is absolutely true. Every! german child grows up with native american heros like winnetou. I would even say winnetou is a bigger hero than Siegfried the dragon slayer or Hermann. The stories are about different cultures and races (the white protagonists in the books who learned to do better) coming together to free people (saving natives together), its about the love of nature (wich is also a very important part of german culture in general), about friendship, about doing the right thing. When the kids play cowboy and indians its the natives who are the good guys and cowboys who are the bad ones, wich is probably different in the US.
Yes, the stereotype clothing and stuff is awfully wrong xD. When I was a little kid, my parents bought me a Indian „tunic“ ( I loved to pretend that I’m a warrior fighting of Custer and his troops ) looking at the tunic now at days I realized how inaccurate it actually was...😂
Did you know that a contract exists between the tribe of Comanches and German emigrants from the Westerwald more than 150 years has been closed? This contract never became Broken! For this reason, a group of Comanches was in the May and June '98 on a tour through Germany. There are Germans who have Indian ancestors in their family that go back in time when Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show was on tour throughout Europe. Since the end of the Second World War, and have been Native American Soldiers with the American Armed Forces in Germany stationed. Also with Europeans - and the Germans from Friedrichsburg - The chief chieftains of the Comanches closed on May 9, 1847 Peace treaty that was never broken. The contract included also that the Comanches protect the Germans, persons of both Nations everywhere, that the Comanches with the Residents from Friedrichsburg and the other cities trade allowed and they also closed a mutual Assistance pact. In 1845, the nobility club sent a capable administrator, the Baron Ottfried Hans von Meusebach, to Texas. He quickly arranged the financial affairs, land in the hill country bought 80 miles along the Pedernales River, in the northwest of the "Neuen Braunfels" and founded a new city, which he called Freiedrichsburg. 1847 It was obvious that the militant Comanche Indians in their area were unwilling to bring their countries to this new group to cede to foreign invaders. In January of 1847, Baron von Meusebach rode, along with one Interpreters and a small group of men along the Saba River to the main camp of the Comanche. He negotiated a contract with the Comanche leaders, the German colonists at Fredricksburg allowed to live in peace. In return, they received gifts worth a few thousand dollars. It is generally believed that this is the only treaty between native Indians and European colonist who has never been broken. At the second Saturday of every May, celebrate the day of graduation in Fredricksburg. It is an important German cultural event along with an indian powwow that's always a gathering between the surviving descendants of Baron von Meusebach and the Descendants of the Comanche include leaders who were originally over negotiated the contract. Gifts are exchanged, then the peace with the smoking of the sacred pipe renewed. The contract is expressly confirmed again.
Karl May Karl May and his heroes, especially Winnetou, are popular not only in Germany and German-speaking countries. I am from the former Czechoslovakia and we learned about Karl May at school, we read his books despite the fact that in those days we were ruled by communists and we were behind the iron curtain. The films about the Indian chief Winnetou had the greatest viewership and as far as I know some scenes were filmed in the former Yugoslavia.
Mato F, don't forget the movie Chingachgook The Big Snake. Even after the collapse of communism in USSR, we still played Indians and Cowboys in the 90-s in Kyrgyzstan.
im native canadian this dont get me upset its a good thing thats what my heart tells me i know its old vid but yeah cool
I'm german. This is absolutely true. Every! german child grows up with native american heros like winnetou. I would even say winnetou is a bigger hero than Siegfried the dragon slayer or Hermann. The stories are about different cultures and races (the white protagonists in the books who learned to do better) coming together to free people (saving natives together), its about the love of nature (wich is also a very important part of german culture in general), about friendship, about doing the right thing. When the kids play cowboy and indians its the natives who are the good guys and cowboys who are the bad ones, wich is probably different in the US.
I knew most native americans in the comments would like this ;-). When I read these books as a child I already knew that it is a romantic phantasy. Yes, Karl May wrote novels about the Indians....they are literature and were not intended to be a documentary.
i saw that every year there is a celbebration of native americans and german heritage americans. every year.
they celebrate the only contract between the white man and the red man that was never broken.
+m hk I guess you refer to the Meusebach-Comanche Treaty of 1847. Was the theme of a movie ("In einem wilden Land") by german TV station Sat1 in 2013.
Kristof Krause : I have also read similiar accounts. I am a Quechuan from Peru and since I was a little boy I would always get an unexplainable vibe that Germans were very good people, even though all my history books and teachers were demonizing them. My love for Germany and her people grew and grew and I started getting into history. This feeling of connection that Native Americans and Germanic people have feels sort of like a cousin relationship so to speak, it's amazing. Could you please share some resources or books on the subject that I may read?
Lol I used to watch Winnetou as a child... as did my dad. I cried a lot when he eventually passed. Very nostalgic
@al rode woopsy 😅
@al rode The movies are almost 60 years old, you can't expect people to refrain from spoilering anything with movies that old lol
German people are very curious and very different to other Europeans they respect the native Americans, I'm from Bolivia 🇧🇴 and Germans coleccted and study and rescue priceless arts from ancient civilization that lived in my country and now the museum are filled with these artefacs, Spaniards English and Portuguese are only worry about the monetary value they can get.
I am half Chiricahua from Oklahoma. I think it's awesome they have something like this going on in Germany. As far as asking for permission. I am so tired of my people trying to make everything legalistic. I appreciate this. Germans Rock.
Glad to hear that. But as others already said, the books of Karl May are a bit idyllic and unauthenticated, given he never was in America himself. But there is another German author, who wrote about the Oglala Dakota called Lieselotte Welskopf-Henrich. She lived a while with them and wrote about the Great Sioux War. "The Sons of Great Bear" Can't tell about the movie, but enjoyed the books. It was a counterpart to Karl May's books, which were forbidden in the DDR. Somehow a lot of Germans had way bigger fascination with the Natives than with the settlers. I even remember having seen pictures of an Iroquois delegation visiting the Third Reich in an exhibition. I just hope we as humans will learn to conserve the whole picture and not just pick out only the parts we prefer as we tend to do. That way a lot of rituals or symbolism will get lost or altered.
Blessings!
Look into your cultures connection to the swastika
shut up, white boy..you're nothing but a cornball
I'm german. This is absolutely true. Every! german child grows up with native american heros like winnetou. I would even say winnetou is a bigger hero than Siegfried the dragon slayer or Hermann. The stories are about different cultures and races (the white protagonists in the books who learned to do better) coming together to free people (saving natives together), its about the love of nature (wich is also a very important part of german culture in general), about friendship, about doing the right thing. When the kids play cowboy and indians its the natives who are the good guys and cowboys who are the bad ones, wich is probably different in the US.
@@FehronEnnoia Hallo. Nice and captures my interest (your comment).
Love ❤️ Respect German people! Ojibway Tribe!
Miigwetch
fascinating and balanced reporting
Omg this just fills my heart. I love it! God bless
This is just wonderful. I have no words.
No it’s not..
Nice, i really like how they are still showing other people our culture.
Something a little saddening to see represented of our (Apache) experience is the representation of "living simply" as a beautiful, spiritual thing. For many Natives it can be, but so many Natives experience homelessness, poverty, lack of running water or electricity (not by choice), all on land that has been stripped of its sacred importance and marked reservations. The romanticization of living with very little as a Native way of life is another way that our basic human needs are ignored.
Well... When those books were written most German houses had neither running water nor electricity.
It's a huge failure of the US that they make it so hard for natives (and many minorities as well). The difference in life expectations is shocking.
Anybody willing to part take in our culture is welcomed with open arms, its your culture as much as it is ours, whether your ancestors participated in it or not
Yes, but I think culture is not only skin deep. There are immense roots that go into one's bones.
Maybe I'll go to Germany someday...💞💗💕💖💞
NOW i understand why so many views from Germany & I'm a REAL INDIAN & i'm all good with this ALMOST more Indian then me GOOD JOB
Very strange fact, Hitler was a huge fan of Karl May's books and wanted to grant Aryan status to the Native Americans believing they where pure descendants of the Aryan race.
I need to go to Germany to feel loved or noticed.
Amazing to see Americans learn about Winnetou.
Ich bin Indianer, und ich hat respekt zu Deutschland!
i'm chilean, araucanian origin warrior race. Hello germans people.
I don't mind this at all.
Hello to my fellow brothers and sisters in Germany! Aho!
I'm half indigenous Mexican and quarter choctaw rest is irish, might move up to Germany then. Went to Britain once. The locals kept touching my hair saying it's so pretty.
Years ago in Tucson, I'd run into German tourists looking to larp a "real Indian experience". They ultimately would all leave disillusioned.
I'm mapuche descent, native from south america
When one is honored we all are honored, blessed to be loved somewhere...Whispering Raven Thundering mountain
Great video
To all who critize this (and there are many reasons to do this) keep in mind: It is based on stories written over 100 years ago and with GOOD intention. And over the time it became a bit of an tradition in Germany. Thanks to this a lot of children grow up with a very positiv and respectful pictture of native americans.
I see this, I’ve come across many Germans in the comment sections telling us to ride horses again and take back our country. It’s somewhat confusing, when Europeans come to mind I think of intolerable people. Then I see this and it makes sense. So Germany loves us? I can’t help but feel pride for some reason. I am of Cheyenne tribe in the Dakotas we were known for our towering height and “Heels in the ground, they will advance no more” lifestyle. I wonder if it’s a widespread view or very isolated. I’m very much invested in hearing more.
Finally! I was waiting for NYT to do a special on "indianthusiasts" ;)
I'm an Indian origin from Bengal and willing to learn more about Native American cultures and as someone who is currently living in Germany, this documentary adds another interesting layer.
Stay away from us.
This very interesting of the German culture, seems they are preserving American native history than we are in the US. I am not saying we are not, but their interests go way beyond what we Americans do in the states.
Sorry but we (Germans) don't. It isn't history by native americans. It is "our" narrative of the winnetou story and it much more reflects feelings of Germans in the 19th century, than real ideals or culture of native americans back then.
We have real life Indians in the United States who are keeping the old ways alive. So maybe you think we are not Americans or that we are all dead.
if i ever visit Germany im definitely seeing the museum
I would ask for the scalps back and any human remains. In return I’d give them some authentically made objects. That way people are also better informed, it’s an opportunity to show other people’s the true culture of native Americans.
I am native american and I am flattered by their respect and appreciation of native american history though some of their actions are obviously in poor taste.
Even before Karl May there was an interest in native Americans because of 19th century romantic Germans had „back to nature“ movements everywhere like Lebebsreform and Wandervogel.
They were also very interested in Indian Hindu and Buddhist philosophies with a long exchange of teachers and philosophies.
There was also obvious nostalgia for German paganism where Herrmann and Seigfried became 19th century heroes who were in touch with „nature“.
That was not in the 19th century but in the first decades of the 20th century. So this was definitely NOT before Karl May.
Adorable.
'Kindred By Choice' is a good read, if anyone is interested in learning the deeper aspects of this fascination with Native Americans
Thanks, maybe I'll check it out!
I never knew about this! My grandfather just passed at the age of 94 and we found a whole collection of Karl May books written in German. Funny how he read all the books but never ever talked about it. I had to come here just to learn who he was.
Karl May wasn't a anthropologist - he was a writer. And at that time, when he wrote his romans, he was a poor man. He didn't have the money to travel to the United States and getting real contact to the natives.
Thats wild
Nice, I think I could be part of the show.
I wish that I am Native American because if I go to Germany I will be kind of celebrity 😎😎😎.
Definitely
To tell u the truth my great great grandfather was German. Most of my cousins have light green eyes to brown hazel eyes. My youngest sister is light completed & my 2 older brothers have light brown eyes & other siblings r dark skin & dark brown eyes. I'm so fortunate to have the Native ind & German. We r also Mexicans by clan that's another story on my mother's side. 😁💞🙄💕
It's actually not like that big thing anymore. But it was when the movies came out. It's still big and many people visit bad Segeberg every year. Also many families with children, but if I would ask somebody in my class about it, nobody would know. I think the most people in and near bad Segeberg know it, but not where I live. Near Frankfurt, about a six hours drive away from bad Segeberg
I gotta go to germany man
Our culture can't be taken or copied we are lakota and we speak through our eyes Aho Mitakuye Oyasin.
@@Friling. are you lakota?
Some things aren't meant to be this is one of them non American indian do not understand the way of life.
@@Friling. I respect that friend didn't mean to come off that way merry Christmas friend 👍✌
It would be cool if all artifacts that were found by archaeologist were returned to their country of origin and put in their countries own museum.
Wouldnt always be the best thing!
@@killerkraut9179 Why the explanation point? And why not?
@@AppleChips1995 Germany have it tried but a collection of bronzes ended in hand of a corrupt politican in his private collection!
Bringing artifacts back can be very complicated ,should i talk more about this?
Oh, and Native Americans are seen as very, very positive :) My father has two tattoos of Native American leaders on his arms.
That's not a compliment, but you tried.
@@zelayadivina I guess it is meant as one
The guy is offended about this... boy as a German he should be used to being stereotyped in an actually bad manner.
People actually have a very positive perception of Germans around the world. In Japan and most of East Asia, it's almost obsessive. The cars, Bundesliga, beer, sausages, "Made in Germany"..... The image of the "repentant Nazi" is probably mostly prevalent in the West.
I'm Native American, and I love Jurgen Klopp (Liverpool manager)
@@KienyejiChicken Who asked about Japan or East Asia…those countries/cultures have nothing to do with this video
The Germans picked a excellent culture to roll model ! One can't do better. 😉
We have people like this in America. They call themselves "Cherokees".
I don't know whether to be flattered or kinda weirderd out. Never knew this about Germans. Is this what Japanese feel with weeaboos?
That's probably not a bad comperaison, besides the obvious difference of oppression.
ViolentFEAR well yeah I experience it
Should not say Karl May's books are like Harry Potter.... His books are more like those of James Fenimore Cooper, instead.
Native Americans, Samurais and Kurds are the people earth and humanity need nowadays more than ever. Nowadays that we are losing mother of nature, honor and art of living
I am happy to see some real civilized people found one of those people worth to attend
Samurais aren't a people, Samurai is a career. A way of living. But not an isolated culture in itself.
White pretenders in Germany confronted by white pretenders in usa
i got the rambo mix.
Okay, this is super new for me! Pretty incredible. Never knew about this. I strongly support the repatriation of ancestral remains back to their homeland.
I'm from Oklahoma and I've been asked more than once by other Americans and non-Americans alike if indians still live in teepees and ride on horseback. No, this is not a regular thing. The other day I saw a Mercedes registered with a Cherokee licence plate, since tribes can issue their own taxes. This is more regular but there's still traditional events that take place.
It would be cool to live in a tipi tho. So I don't think for most it's a negative stereotype. But even then not all nations lived in tipis.
Ask an Austrian about Sound of Music, it is somewhat similar weird for us.
Any other Germans here?
I would love to visit a German pow wow.
It's strange to see some this. When I think of Native Peoples in America I think of people which have been screwed over by 19th century policies and still suffer from the reserve system.
Holding parts of a human being IS reprehensible but why no mention of those who cut off scalps in the first place??
its probably the meusebach comanche treaty
Totally exaggerated nonsense. I am German and I have never before heard of these people playing natives or met one in my life. These books were written over 150 years ago, the films are abotut 60 years old. Most Germans know them, but I dare to say, the absolute majority in Germany don't think they have much to do with reality and they don't romanticize native americans either. However, the books may have sparked interest in the historical facts among many Germans. The late Pope Benedict, during an audience in St Peter's square, spotted the actor who had played Winnetou amongst the spectators, incidentally a french nobleman, approached him and his wife and revealed that he too had devoured the books as a child.
Adults playing Cowboys and Indianer is exceptional. But kids doing that was quite normal. When I was young we all did it. Many of us read Karl May inclusive myself. They are full of correct specific details. They also include some grave mistakes.
I bet they'll treat us better than most of American people also I'm half Sioux Indian and Cheyenne Indian
Do they help raise monies for real reservations and history preservation?
Good question, because that would be a good thing to do with the money...
Chingackook, the Great Snake (DDR) is very popular movie in former USSR
San Xavier Mission in Arizona has actual Native Americans come over and share us their customs and cultures. They come from the reservations and teach us what their culture is like. I'm lucky to live in the u.s. and see the real deal for myself. Very educational and insightful. And they're dancing is unusually appealing to watch.
Iron Eyes Cody, as a Native American that's all I've got to say.
oh wow I'm happy Indian living in Texas
So if I move to Germany, will I be a celebrity?
A novelty, most likely. But the Karl May stereotype of American Indians has been deeply ingrained in many of us since childhood, so it could happen that some people don't believe you that you're American Indian or something like that.
I suppose it really depends who you meet.
well yes but no but yes
🤘🏽❤