About the Vstrom meaning: V-Strom combines V, referring to the bike's V engine configuration (older one), with the German word Strom, meaning stream or current. DE means "Dual Explorer" 👍
@@RIDGIEDESIGNS This has a good reputation in the Chinese Internet and it's the cheapest rally bike which can join the Dakar in China, but I think you need to consider about the after-sale service if you want to buy one in the US because that company is really young and small.
@@Marc-zf3xv Loncin's engine is good, maybe one of the best among Chinese motor corporations, but their motors as a whole are controversial these years.
Among the most trustworthy "Chinese bikes" you can never fail with Haojue. They produce like 50% of entire Suzuki lineup lol. Same quality control too.
Great to see V85TT on here. Most reviewers don't even give it the time of day which is a shame because it's a great bike. I traded my 2017 AT for the V85 and don't regret it at all. I found the AT very capable but pretty boring overall. (Yes, I did ride it as intended. Plenty of woods and trail miles) but The V85TT has become my favorite bike I've ever owned. It just speaks to me and I find the more I ride it, the more I fall in love with it. So easy to maintain, so much character (cliche but true) and does pretty good off road if you aren't trying to get too gnarly. Thanks for including in this list.
My brother bought one from new and had nothing but issues with it. They could not get the mapping right and it would surge and backfire constantly. He also said quality was so-so.
@@andrewtreloar7389 Mine is a 2022 also and I've had zero problems so far. Since you mentioned mapping, it sounds like a dealer issue or your brother got a lemon.
Ima pleased owner of the 2022 v85 with zero issues. Have had: Kawa, Yamaha , Harley, and a v65sp prior. Love the Guzzi. ZERO issues. Great sporty but comfy ride. Valve adjust is a one hour job. And, important to me; Its different. Im not a fan of "same as yours"
As someone who has been searching for months for the right bike I appreciate the detailed reviews. Not just these, but the specific bike views as well. Keep it up!
Hi Ian, great job with the buyer's guide, must have taken a lot of work. One thing I can tell you from the UK is how excited the vast majority of journalists are who have tested the new Honda Hornet and Transalp, they have raved about the new 750cc Parallel twin engine in both bikes with 91 bhp, and a 270 degree crank. The naked hornet is £6.999 on road and the Transalp £9.499. They basically say on paper the Transalp is nothing special but in reality it's really really good, in fact only a little behind the Tenere 700 off road, and on road blows it into the weeds. Hope you get both bike's soon. Thank you.
As per usual, great informative video. One(sort of)negative - as a taller (6'6", 36 leg) rider, I get a little tired of references to shorter riders. It would be hugely beneficial if seat-to-peg length could be mentioned. I know I can get a raised seat, but it would be nice to how the bike comes standard
Thanks Ian. These are invaluable for bike shoppers. Same with your spreadsheets. Before I discovered yours I was making my own. What a pain! I am still on a waitlist for a CRF300 rally b/c I really think that light weight will work for me. If it doesn't show by riding season, I'm seriously considering just moving up to the Tuareg. Is that nuts for a returning rider?
I moved from CRF250L to Tuareg and 2000 km later I'm pretty much just as confident on Tuareg as I was on the Honda off-road. No need to be scared, it's a nice and friendly bike.
You're the man! This is so damn good, thank you for all your effort! The spreadsheet is perfect, smart move to divide it into different categories since last time around and great layout.
Fantastic Ian. Thanks. I'm looking for a mid weight, saw you'd done this and just felt confidant that the info would be relevant and honest and informative. I knew it! Can always trust you. Thanks. Jim, UK.
I spent 2 years researching and testing and ended up with the Tiger 900 Rally Pro. ON road it's 95% of the GT and off road, can go places above my skill level but I'll get there. Many Baja trips now and soon starting BDRs. I love this bike even more that I thought. The display irritates me a bit but small price to pay for the fun and adventure and comfort and performance!
As an owner of a Tiger Rally Pro, I can attest to it’s all around goodness. Key thing is to read the owner’s manual for suspension set up. You are instructed to remove all preload in the rear and stiffen up the front for off road riding. That makes a big difference on calming the twitchy off road behavior. Yes it’s expensive, but as they say, you get what you pay for, in spades in this case.
I've been watching your vids for a couple months so I finally subscribed. Even if I'm not that interested in a bike, I'll watch your vid about it because of your production and honest review quality. I see only the mid-weight bikes on your PDF, no light- or heavy-weight listings. :( Keep up the good work!
Just bought TRK502 (road version). It is heavy and top heavy for sure. However, if you can get used to it it is a lovely machine for the price. It does deliver plenty of room for the rider, passenger and luggage. Ride is also quite smooth, wind protection is good.
OMG! That is so informative and just so helpful! It must have taken you ages to put together and is much appreciated!.....Do you have one for the lightweight bikes??
So helpful. I also appreciate the info on things like changing the air filter. For those of us who don't live close to dealers, being able to do basic maintenance is vital. As an owner of an Africa Twin, I'm definitely going to put access to the air filter and battery as priorities for my next bike. And as a rider who only wants the capability of doing basic off-road, I'm not making the off-road capability as much a priority as the overall comfort and reliability.
Nice piece Ian thanks for the summary info! I hate to be a critic but I think while including the KLR650 makes sense, if you should also include other big singles like the KTM690 Enduro R. I’m fortunate enough to own both and there is simply no comparison. As I think one of your other videos explains the 690 is arguable the closest thing available to a unicorn/hybrid dual sport and light adventure bike. Set up with some soft panniers and tail rack I’d take that for a 2 day more offroad biased ride over bigger adventure bikes in my stable. Plus if you didn’t limit it to 20 bikes and went to 2 pages the font size would be large enough for us old guys to read when printed! Keep up the great work!!
Very nice job. THANKS FROM GREECE ! I have a Africa Twin, just love this bike. My ratings for the Africa would be. Off Road 4, On road 4, Comfort 4, Fun factor 5 (all bikes have a 5 fun factor), Beauty 5, Eyes magnet 4, Womens Trap 5. Keep on the good work !
Are you sure that the women's trap factor in greece is 5? 95% of them are afraid to ride it and another 3% can t reach the foot pegs :D. Most will say they prefer a Hyundai atos over an africa twin :D
FWIW, the 890 is actually broadly quoted as 474 lbs wet. The 790 with its slightly smaller engine is 468 lbs wet. Great rankings though. I think you got it pretty spot on.
I feel like the Tuareg deserves a 4 for Road. Certainly not for highway cruising.. but that part is already covered by the bad comfort rating, right? But it just blows my mind how much fun this bike is on twisty roads... I am talking proper twisties like mountain passes in the Swiss/French/Italian alps. Although I know that it is hard to find those kind of corners in the states.
Thanks, Ian. This is great information. I am looking for a bike in this class. One bike that I am considering is the CFMOTO IBEX 800 T. Is there a reason it is not on your list? Looks to have a great price given the features (KTM 790 engine, heated grips, heated seat, cruise control, TFT, luggage racks, adjustable windscreen, 5 yr warranty). I am curious about your thoughts on this bike. Thanks
Once again Ian, great informative video…. After a lengthy demo ride on the CFMoto 800T 2 weeks ago in Daytona and being a GSA owner for the last 10 years and 65+k miles…I can unequivocally say that the 2023 GSA is not worth nearly 3x the price of the 2023 800T… But after a rough calculation of the dealer F.U Fees for the CFMoto, it’s OTD price will be dangerously close to that of the base KTM 890 translating into a hard sell for CFMoto….We look forward to your future review of the CFMoto… kudos As a side note , we subscribers truly appreciate your time ,effort and production value of your reviews….
CFMoto 800MT here in Australia is AUD$14,500 ride away. That's $8,000 cheaper than the Tuareg with less features and less horsepower. The Tuareg is not an $8k better bike, especially on-road
Missing one big thing in your scores, reliability! Although understandably its hard (if not impossible) to quantify and gather data on it. Perhaps things like compression ratio can give a bit of a hint at engine reliability at least. But it can be a huge impact on enjoyment of a bike.
Good work compiling this, thanks.👍 Can I suggest if you do another one you include max payload. This often causes me to rule bikes out because I like to take them out two up with camping kit as well. The triumphs are often very good on this, but it's never easy finding out max payloads.
I love my Triumph Rally Pro. Its extremely comfy even for 2w+ trips with tenting. Good travel distance too (which imho is very important for adventure bike, a bare minimum is that 150+ miles, preferably 200+ miles with full tank. I can sit 8 hours a day on it, and going offroad is very easy with it. Also imho, the green tiger RP is the prettiest looking adv bike there is, but thats subjective.
Awesome and informative video! I really think the Triumph scrambler 1200XE should be on this list, seeing that its about 225kg, 90hp/110nm torque, comes with all the tech you'll ever need and with fully adjustable ohlins at the rear and fully adjustable showa at the front which provides 250mm suspension travel. Only downside compared to the other bikes on this list would be the lack of a screen which is available in the accessories catelog.
Hi Ian, really great job as usual. I was wondering if it could be useful to add a passenger's comfort vote in your detailed reviews. Keep it up. Lamps from Italy
I tested a 2021 BMW 850GS and it felt so meh and so "unsurefooted" off-road that I bought a 2500$ 2001 Transalp 650 instead and called it a day. With another 1000$ poured into it, it's become a great bike, only thing left to buy is a pair of new, progressive spring set.
I would recommend an additional category; "Predicted Reliability and Ease of Maintenance". I appreciate the KTM specs ,but would steer clear due shady reliability.
KTM sort of splits both of those factors though. Reliability issues with KTM are valid, but in my experience on my second KTM, heavily overblown. >37K miles on my 2019 1290 SAS, and only issue is it throwing codes. Ease of maintenance on the other hand, is pretty good for KTM. 7/890 stock skid plate is super easy to remove for oil changes. Internal oil filter cartridge is much easier than the external cans. Oh, and you can reset the service light FROM THE DASH. Also, easy air filter, and battery access. 9,600 mile service interval, and double that for valve checks. Manual actually explains much of the maintenance. In the end, the fun factor on both KTMs I own makes everything worth it.
Thanks for the review, its extremely helpful. In the overall ratings, I think the reliability factor should not be omitted in this class of bikes. Cheers.
The Honda 500 weight and price are a fake marketing tactic to catch the most ignorant fanbois. Now even the bare minimum component is called "accessory" and so the standard bike is off course lighter also the gas tank is smaller compared to other bike in the same category.
Hey brotha, I wanna say thank you for the insight I'm looking at buying another bike, I totaled my 19 Yamaha MT07 and i am looking for a all rounder. I took my MT from west palm beach FL to West Fargo ND. Now I'm going to take another 2k+ mile trip and I want something more capable. So far I'm baking on KTM890 or Honda African twin and or desertX
There might always be opinions on subjective thoughts, even on facts... I dont care - You are, hands down, the best motorcycle reviewer I have seen! Thank you for all the work you put into your youtube channel!
Excellent comparison Ian 👍 Like you, I'm very interested to see how some of these newer Chinese bikes stack up long term. Even tho not included in this comparo. The most exciting of the brands, imo, are the Kove 450 Rally, and 800X Adventure. Still trying to find out if we will even get them here in Oz🇦🇺🤷🤷 But love the concept. And the styling of both is on point. Image.....an 800cc adv bike with 100hp and weighs 170 odd Kg 👍👍
Thanks for making these lists. I think of all the upcoming Chinese bikes, I'd really like to see you get your hands on the Kove 450 rally. I've seen a couple other people get ahold of a pre-production model from GPX but I would really like to see what you think after spending some time with it.
Is there's any reason the bigger brands cant go to shaft drive on their mid sized adventure bikes? specifically looking at the tiger 900 or the bmw850, since the 12,000$ moto guzzi can manage it.
Interesting that the price gap between the Ténéré and the Tuareg is larger in the US than in Europe. Here in Switzerland it is only +10% (+1200) for the Tuareg (13.000 vs 11.800) rather than +17% (12.300 vs. 10.500) for you guys. And shipping costs are also obviously lower. Needless to say: I looooove my Tuareg :D
I’ve ridden most of these (minus the Chinese ones) and I’d agree with almost everything. Ktm is the best for off-road. Id put the Tigers in most comfortable with the GS very close.
Too bad you underrate the F850GS again. I think on road and for comfort it should deserve 4 instead of 3 points. Yes, that is also subjective ofcourse.
@@ad4300 I did not say it's the best motorcycle, but it's a very pleasant, allround and comfortable bike to ride with superior electronic devices. Ian is consistently negative. BTW in Europe the engine has 97 horsepower. I Don't know why.
I really thought Ian explained it well. It does everything well, but no one thing great. It’s a fine bike, but the problem is that it’s just sitting in BMW’s line up as a stepping stone to the 1250GS, like the 750GS. It’s comfy, but expensive, and fairly heavy. For LESS money one can buy one of several bikes that are more fun, better off road, better in the corners, or quite simply more powerful.
Do you plan to test the new Husqvarna Norden 901 expedition? Do you think it is light enough or is a Aprilia Tuareg 660 better for off road riding? Thanks for your great videos!
Great content and very informative. Curious why the KTM 790 Adventure 2023 is not on the listing. Best value for money for 2023 in the mid-size segment imo.
I am seriously considering the KTM 890 Adventure but leaning toward the Norden 901 Expedition due to planned longer weekend trips (2 - 4 days). Some long days on the pavement to get to brilliant dirt-road and trail sections we are fortunate enough to have where I ride.
I see what you did there. Little in the way of objectivity, specs, tech and features and extremely heavy on common moto journalistic subjective biases, stereo types, and clichés. It is why I haven’t and I never will support this type of content. I don’t buy biases, feeling, soul, character, supposed reliability, and what your idea of an adventure is. I buy specs and feature. That is what the engineers that designs these modern marvels focus on. Specs don’t have feeling or biases. Just cold hard facts to help consumers decide if a certain product meets their expectations, wants and needs. You are simply doing what you have always done and that’s scoring motorcycles based on your own personal biases. Maybe one day someone will actually start an honest unbiased motorcycle review channel that nothing is determined about what a motorcycle is or what it will be to its consumer. Just what it is, what it has, what it does and what it cost. That’s it!
Tons of people have asked me to do a rating system. If I only did specs only on the channel, why would people not just read the manufacturer website to get that info.
Specifications don't tell you how the bike handles, how comfortable it is and how reliable it is. I would say a lot of Ian's comments are objective seeing as he has owned a lot of the bikes on the list!
I would love a long term durability test of one of these Chinese manufacturers. A lot of people get scared off by them, and they could have some merit, but they also may not. We just don't really know yet. I'm excited to see what they do to the industry and someone like you is an incredible resource to pioneer the way.
Another awesome video. I've got handwritten spreadsheets comparing most of these. I've got a lot of road experience, but just getting into adv. Since I am vertically challenged, I'm leaning toward the KLR 650S. That lower seat makes a huge difference for me. Thanks for the information.
I currently have a KTM 390 Adventure and bought it partially because I haven’t ridden since I was in High School and partially because I’m trying to get my husband into the sport and didn’t want him on anything intimidating. He has now taken over the 390 and I’m stuck following him around in my Jeep and we are needing to add another bike to our collection. We live in Denver so have access to some of the best on and offroad terrain. Sorry to ramble but this next bike will be for me and I have some more experience but don’t want anything to heavy or powerful. I’ve watched a ton of your videos to help narrow the ever growing category. I love the KTM platform so considering the KTM 790/890 adventure, Aprilia Turaeg 660, and possibly the Suzuki 800 DE. Looking for some advice on your opinion. Nothing too heavy, or over $12-14K. Thanks.
Wow 🤩 my 1200 GS (2012) is still a middle weight Adv. bike … feels even like this & lighter than the Benellis or the Moto Morini with much more comfort & torque 💪🏻✨ … thx for this effort of categorising & short but well done comparison of mid-size Adv.bikes 👍🏻
Hey Ian, love your channel...long time subscriber, any chance you have plans on updating your buyers guides with updated models, bikes you've since reviewed, etc.? In the market for a new mid-sized bike and would love to see how the V-Strom 800 DE, F900 GS, and others fit into your "On Road", "Off Road", "Comfort" & "Fun Factor" ratings. Keep up the excellent work!
So much work... for nothing. You did not include the most important factor - RELIABILITY. Adventure bikes are designed for long journeys in rough conditions. Who cares if MC is perfect in all categories, but breaks easily? Who wants to have technical problems somewhere 5,000 km, 8,000 km or 10,000 km away from home? The more I travel with bikes myself, the more I understand that your reviews do not have any relation to real-life.
Hey Ian, excellent video comparison with very relevant information. I've been trying to find "new" 2022 Africa Twins in Arizona but they are nowhere to be found and haven't been for a couple of months. Honda has quite a few 2023 models available like the Groms, Monkeys, Rebels, GW's, other CRF's, and Fury's so I don't buy the supply chain excuse. Cycle Trader shows that there are a few 2022's available nationally but too far away from me. My local dealer says they aren't getting any. Any ideas? Also, I've written Honda Corporate, but haven't received a response yet.
Have a 2021 TRK502X and it is a great bike. Yes, heavy, but bang for buck hard to beat, use mainly on road. Bought mine with 1100km 3 months warranty left and shad cases on rode for AUD$7000 second hand. Comfortable, plenty of room and smooth gears and motor. Also have a 2020 Himalayan for the bush. Ian, get one, like to see your thoughts mate.
Thanks a lot your videos definitely help in making better consumer decisions and when everything is so expensive it’s great! Question which will help me in deciding between the 890 R and Ducati. Reliability. If you had to rank them out of 5 what would they be for reliability? Would also need to upgrade the seat to a more comfy one for longer trips. A video review or info on the options would be ideal 👌🤞👍. *I see the ktm do s heated seat? 🤷♂️ cheers dude
⚡ BUYER'S GUIDE DOWNLOAD:⚡
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Exactly the kind of video i was looking for---thanks!!!!
❤
About the Vstrom meaning:
V-Strom combines V, referring to the bike's V engine configuration (older one), with the German word Strom, meaning stream or current.
DE means "Dual Explorer" 👍
Your buyers guide is a great concept. I would love to see you add bikes (CRF350L, KLX300, etc) and update the info.
I was disappointed there was not the Versys 650 on the list, sad.
As a Chinese, I'm quite sure that QJ motor is not trustworthy since it's notorious in the Chinese mainland, while the Kove and CF motor are better
I’m really interested in that kove rally
@@RIDGIEDESIGNS This has a good reputation in the Chinese Internet and it's the cheapest rally bike which can join the Dakar in China, but I think you need to consider about the after-sale service if you want to buy one in the US because that company is really young and small.
How is Loncin reputation within China?
@@Marc-zf3xv Loncin's engine is good, maybe one of the best among Chinese motor corporations, but their motors as a whole are controversial these years.
Among the most trustworthy "Chinese bikes" you can never fail with Haojue.
They produce like 50% of entire Suzuki lineup lol. Same quality control too.
Big Rock Moto is in a class of its own!
Exceptional research, professional presentation with unmatched commitment to supporting viewers!
Thank you!
Great to see V85TT on here. Most reviewers don't even give it the time of day which is a shame because it's a great bike. I traded my 2017 AT for the V85 and don't regret it at all. I found the AT very capable but pretty boring overall. (Yes, I did ride it as intended. Plenty of woods and trail miles) but The V85TT has become my favorite bike I've ever owned. It just speaks to me and I find the more I ride it, the more I fall in love with it. So easy to maintain, so much character (cliche but true) and does pretty good off road if you aren't trying to get too gnarly. Thanks for including in this list.
My brother bought one from new and had nothing but issues with it. They could not get the mapping right and it would surge and backfire constantly. He also said quality was so-so.
@@andrewtreloar7389 Mine is a 2022 also and I've had zero problems so far. Since you mentioned mapping, it sounds like a dealer issue or your brother got a lemon.
@@werewolfonwheels I reckon he got a lemon to be honest.
Ima pleased owner of the 2022 v85 with zero issues. Have had: Kawa, Yamaha , Harley, and a v65sp prior. Love the Guzzi. ZERO issues. Great sporty but comfy ride. Valve adjust is a one hour job. And, important to me; Its different. Im not a fan of "same as yours"
@@bruceramseyramsey2605 I hear you Bruce, I like them to be honest and the shaft drive is a bonus (no chain adjustment or oiling!)
PLEASE don't give the CCP and Chinese knock off motos any airtime. Appreciate all the hard work you put into the channel.
Amen
Wow, that must've taken many hours to put together, thanks for all the hard work!
As someone who has been searching for months for the right bike I appreciate the detailed reviews. Not just these, but the specific bike views as well. Keep it up!
Hi Ian, great job with the buyer's guide, must have taken a lot of work. One thing I can tell you from the UK is how excited the vast majority of journalists are who have tested the new Honda Hornet and Transalp, they have raved about the new 750cc Parallel twin engine in both bikes with 91 bhp, and a 270 degree crank. The naked hornet is £6.999 on road and the Transalp £9.499. They basically say on paper the Transalp is nothing special but in reality it's really really good, in fact only a little behind the Tenere 700 off road, and on road blows it into the weeds. Hope you get both bike's soon. Thank you.
Τransalp 750 hands down.
As per usual, great informative video. One(sort of)negative - as a taller (6'6", 36 leg) rider, I get a little tired of references to shorter riders.
It would be hugely beneficial if seat-to-peg length could be mentioned. I know I can get a raised seat, but it would be nice to how the bike comes standard
Well stated!
@@mfranquemont1884 Exactly, almost all road bikes are geared towards the vertically challenged. Give us something please!!!!
Incredibly useful to your subscribers Ian. This was a lot of work and I appreciate it ! ✌️
This is completely incredible, thank you so much. I’ll look up if you’ve made a video about lightweight advs
Thanks Ian. These are invaluable for bike shoppers. Same with your spreadsheets. Before I discovered yours I was making my own. What a pain! I am still on a waitlist for a CRF300 rally b/c I really think that light weight will work for me. If it doesn't show by riding season, I'm seriously considering just moving up to the Tuareg. Is that nuts for a returning rider?
I moved from CRF250L to Tuareg and 2000 km later I'm pretty much just as confident on Tuareg as I was on the Honda off-road. No need to be scared, it's a nice and friendly bike.
You're the man! This is so damn good, thank you for all your effort! The spreadsheet is perfect, smart move to divide it into different categories since last time around and great layout.
Fantastic stuff, thanks! I picked up my 2023 KTM 890 Adventure R, and can confirm the wind buffeting is fixed with the new windscreen.
Fantastic Ian. Thanks. I'm looking for a mid weight, saw you'd done this and just felt confidant that the info would be relevant and honest and informative. I knew it! Can always trust you. Thanks. Jim, UK.
Glad it was helpful!
I spent 2 years researching and testing and ended up with the Tiger 900 Rally Pro. ON road it's 95% of the GT and off road, can go places above my skill level but I'll get there. Many Baja trips now and soon starting BDRs. I love this bike even more that I thought. The display irritates me a bit but small price to pay for the fun and adventure and comfort and performance!
Terribly expensive
yep...but many are more expensive.@@podunkman2709
As an owner of a Tiger Rally Pro, I can attest to it’s all around goodness. Key thing is to read the owner’s manual for suspension set up. You are instructed to remove all preload in the rear and stiffen up the front for off road riding. That makes a big difference on calming the twitchy off road behavior. Yes it’s expensive, but as they say, you get what you pay for, in spades in this case.
I am not really in the market for an addition, but you are doing such a great job with your videos, and your buyer's guides are excellent!
great video, the added buyers guide is a great touch!
I've been watching your vids for a couple months so I finally subscribed. Even if I'm not that interested in a bike, I'll watch your vid about it because of your production and honest review quality. I see only the mid-weight bikes on your PDF, no light- or heavy-weight listings. :( Keep up the good work!
I love when you nerd out like this! Great job!
Just bought TRK502 (road version). It is heavy and top heavy for sure. However, if you can get used to it it is a lovely machine for the price. It does deliver plenty of room for the rider, passenger and luggage. Ride is also quite smooth, wind protection is good.
VStrom's are amazing bikes for the money. I'll be taking a hard look at the 800de when they're available.
Ian! great video, just what I needed, ty. You must put in an extraordinary amount of work. Always top-notch content and thoughtful.
I don’t agree with all the opinions but, in terms of content and format, extremely well done!
Hats off for the effort and ranking all these bikes. Great work!
OMG! That is so informative and just so helpful! It must have taken you ages to put together and is much appreciated!.....Do you have one for the lightweight bikes??
So helpful. I also appreciate the info on things like changing the air filter. For those of us who don't live close to dealers, being able to do basic maintenance is vital. As an owner of an Africa Twin, I'm definitely going to put access to the air filter and battery as priorities for my next bike. And as a rider who only wants the capability of doing basic off-road, I'm not making the off-road capability as much a priority as the overall comfort and reliability.
ive asked him similar question on instagram and i feel like this video was made for me , thanks !
Nice piece Ian thanks for the summary info! I hate to be a critic but I think while including the KLR650 makes sense, if you should also include other big singles like the KTM690 Enduro R. I’m fortunate enough to own both and there is simply no comparison. As I think one of your other videos explains the 690 is arguable the closest thing available to a unicorn/hybrid dual sport and light adventure bike. Set up with some soft panniers and tail rack I’d take that for a 2 day more offroad biased ride over bigger adventure bikes in my stable. Plus if you didn’t limit it to 20 bikes and went to 2 pages the font size would be large enough for us old guys to read when printed! Keep up the great work!!
Great review! I also very much appreciate the download file. Thank you!
your reviews and buyer's guides are top notch, thanks a lot for making them!❤
Glad you like them!
🤯🤯🤯🤯
Wow, what an effort! Great review!
Thanks for all the effort you put in your videos!! Greetings from Mexico 🇲🇽
Thanks Ian. Great breakdown of what's available.
Great video as always Ian!! Thanks!!
Very nice job. THANKS FROM GREECE !
I have a Africa Twin, just love this bike.
My ratings for the Africa would be.
Off Road 4,
On road 4,
Comfort 4,
Fun factor 5 (all bikes have a 5 fun factor),
Beauty 5,
Eyes magnet 4,
Womens Trap 5.
Keep on the good work !
Are you sure that the women's trap factor in greece is 5? 95% of them are afraid to ride it and another 3% can t reach the foot pegs :D. Most will say they prefer a Hyundai atos over an africa twin :D
Great video mate…. The video flew by, didn’t feel like it was 45mins at all
Well done. Looking forward to your reviews on the new Transalp and 800DE
FWIW, the 890 is actually broadly quoted as 474 lbs wet. The 790 with its slightly smaller engine is 468 lbs wet.
Great rankings though. I think you got it pretty spot on.
I feel like the Tuareg deserves a 4 for Road.
Certainly not for highway cruising.. but that part is already covered by the bad comfort rating, right?
But it just blows my mind how much fun this bike is on twisty roads... I am talking proper twisties like mountain passes in the Swiss/French/Italian alps. Although I know that it is hard to find those kind of corners in the states.
Thanks, Ian. This is great information. I am looking for a bike in this class. One bike that I am considering is the CFMOTO IBEX 800 T. Is there a reason it is not on your list? Looks to have a great price given the features (KTM 790 engine, heated grips, heated seat, cruise control, TFT, luggage racks, adjustable windscreen, 5 yr warranty). I am curious about your thoughts on this bike. Thanks
excellent, precise summary of all bikes. Did not find tiger 660 in this list. Maybe because it is a sports touring ADV? Thank you for this video
very good, thank you. Think about doing this for the other size categories.
Great idea!
Once again Ian, great informative video…. After a lengthy demo ride on the CFMoto 800T 2 weeks ago in Daytona and being a GSA owner for the last 10 years and 65+k miles…I can unequivocally say that the 2023 GSA is not worth nearly 3x the price of the 2023 800T… But after a rough calculation of the dealer F.U Fees for the CFMoto, it’s OTD price will be dangerously close to that of the base KTM 890 translating into a hard sell for CFMoto….We look forward to your future review of the CFMoto… kudos
As a side note , we subscribers truly appreciate your time ,effort and production value of your reviews….
CFMoto 800MT here in Australia is AUD$14,500 ride away. That's $8,000 cheaper than the Tuareg with less features and less horsepower. The Tuareg is not an $8k better bike, especially on-road
Missing one big thing in your scores, reliability! Although understandably its hard (if not impossible) to quantify and gather data on it. Perhaps things like compression ratio can give a bit of a hint at engine reliability at least.
But it can be a huge impact on enjoyment of a bike.
Yeah, and generally KTMs tend to be little weak on this side...
Good work compiling this, thanks.👍
Can I suggest if you do another one you include max payload. This often causes me to rule bikes out because I like to take them out two up with camping kit as well. The triumphs are often very good on this, but it's never easy finding out max payloads.
I love my Triumph Rally Pro. Its extremely comfy even for 2w+ trips with tenting. Good travel distance too (which imho is very important for adventure bike, a bare minimum is that 150+ miles, preferably 200+ miles with full tank. I can sit 8 hours a day on it, and going offroad is very easy with it. Also imho, the green tiger RP is the prettiest looking adv bike there is, but thats subjective.
Well done Ian; like it!!
Awesome and informative video!
I really think the Triumph scrambler 1200XE should be on this list, seeing that its about 225kg, 90hp/110nm torque, comes with all the tech you'll ever need and with fully adjustable ohlins at the rear and fully adjustable showa at the front which provides 250mm suspension travel.
Only downside compared to the other bikes on this list would be the lack of a screen which is available in the accessories catelog.
Hi Ian, and thanks for the video, will you do a light weight adv/enduro comparison list?
Yes, soon
Hi Ian, really great job as usual. I was wondering if it could be useful to add a passenger's comfort vote in your detailed reviews.
Keep it up.
Lamps from Italy
I tested a 2021 BMW 850GS and it felt so meh and so "unsurefooted" off-road that I bought a 2500$ 2001 Transalp 650 instead and called it a day. With another 1000$ poured into it, it's become a great bike, only thing left to buy is a pair of new, progressive spring set.
I would recommend an additional category; "Predicted Reliability and Ease of Maintenance".
I appreciate the KTM specs ,but would steer clear due shady reliability.
KTM sort of splits both of those factors though. Reliability issues with KTM are valid, but in my experience on my second KTM, heavily overblown. >37K miles on my 2019 1290 SAS, and only issue is it throwing codes. Ease of maintenance on the other hand, is pretty good for KTM.
7/890 stock skid plate is super easy to remove for oil changes. Internal oil filter cartridge is much easier than the external cans. Oh, and you can reset the service light FROM THE DASH. Also, easy air filter, and battery access. 9,600 mile service interval, and double that for valve checks. Manual actually explains much of the maintenance.
In the end, the fun factor on both KTMs I own makes everything worth it.
Great job on this! Keep the meaningful and useful content coming. Donated a small stipend to your channel.
36:57
Yeeeah boy!
Get mine any day now!
Can’t wait!
🏍️💨
Thanks for another amazing video Ian!
Wow Ian! Thank you so much for this video and ESPECIALLY, the document! That's a lot of work to put together. Most appreciated!
Love your channel
Now that you have tested the Honda Transalp, how would you rate it for "Off Road", "On Road", and "Comfort"? Thank You
For me, the transalp is too big and heavy for any off road except a good dirt road. Comfort and riding on pavement would be very good.
Appreciate the effort. Very helpful. Subscribed
Thanks for the review, its extremely helpful. In the overall ratings, I think the reliability factor should not be omitted in this class of bikes. Cheers.
Brilliant as always
Awesome video as always, thank you!
My pleasure!
Thorough , excellent and consistent with my own experiences. Helpful to anyone in the market.
Excelente trabajo, detallado, rapido y conciso. Blessings!!
Hi, Africa Twin 1100 fanboy here! I don’t feel it slow at all.
Great review! If you'd had the opportunity, I'd be curious how the V2S would of fared.
Anyone who wants to buy a cheap Chinese knock off should just catch a bus as the do not belong on a motorcycle.
Thank you, Ian. it was very informative. I was looking for the pdf and couldn't find it... please advise. thx
The Honda 500 weight and price are a fake marketing tactic to catch the most ignorant fanbois.
Now even the bare minimum component is called "accessory" and so the standard bike is off course lighter also the gas tank is smaller compared to other bike in the same category.
v strom is not an adventure bike why people keep categorizing it as one!! not a single offroad feature on it
Hey brotha, I wanna say thank you for the insight I'm looking at buying another bike, I totaled my 19 Yamaha MT07 and i am looking for a all rounder. I took my MT from west palm beach FL to West Fargo ND. Now I'm going to take another 2k+ mile trip and I want something more capable. So far I'm baking on KTM890 or Honda African twin and or desertX
Thanks!
Thanks!
Excellent video and list.
There might always be opinions on subjective thoughts, even on facts...
I dont care - You are, hands down, the best motorcycle reviewer I have seen!
Thank you for all the work you put into your youtube channel!
Excellent comparison Ian 👍 Like you, I'm very interested to see how some of these newer Chinese bikes stack up long term. Even tho not included in this comparo. The most exciting of the brands, imo, are the Kove 450 Rally, and 800X Adventure. Still trying to find out if we will even get them here in Oz🇦🇺🤷🤷 But love the concept. And the styling of both is on point. Image.....an 800cc adv bike with 100hp and weighs 170 odd Kg 👍👍
Thanks for making these lists. I think of all the upcoming Chinese bikes, I'd really like to see you get your hands on the Kove 450 rally. I've seen a couple other people get ahold of a pre-production model from GPX but I would really like to see what you think after spending some time with it.
Is there's any reason the bigger brands cant go to shaft drive on their mid sized adventure bikes? specifically looking at the tiger 900 or the bmw850, since the 12,000$ moto guzzi can manage it.
Interesting that the price gap between the Ténéré and the Tuareg is larger in the US than in Europe.
Here in Switzerland it is only +10% (+1200) for the Tuareg (13.000 vs 11.800) rather than +17% (12.300 vs. 10.500) for you guys.
And shipping costs are also obviously lower.
Needless to say: I looooove my Tuareg :D
Excellent!
I’ve ridden most of these (minus the Chinese ones) and I’d agree with almost everything. Ktm is the best for off-road. Id put the Tigers in most comfortable with the GS very close.
Too bad you underrate the F850GS again. I think on road and for comfort it should deserve 4 instead of 3 points. Yes, that is also subjective ofcourse.
It's totally ok if it's a 4 for you. But generally the F850GS is not the best motorcycle. I hope BMW will give us a new F700GS Tuareg soon.
Haha. He rated the F850GS as less comfortable than a KLR650...
@@brantfurr986 That's what I mean, the guy is a nerd and talks too much.
@@ad4300 I did not say it's the best motorcycle, but it's a very pleasant, allround and comfortable bike to ride with superior electronic devices. Ian is consistently negative. BTW in Europe the engine has 97 horsepower. I Don't know why.
I really thought Ian explained it well. It does everything well, but no one thing great.
It’s a fine bike, but the problem is that it’s just sitting in BMW’s line up as a stepping stone to the 1250GS, like the 750GS. It’s comfy, but expensive, and fairly heavy. For LESS money one can buy one of several bikes that are more fun, better off road, better in the corners, or quite simply more powerful.
Do you plan to test the new Husqvarna Norden 901 expedition? Do you think it is light enough or is a Aprilia Tuareg 660 better for off road riding?
Thanks for your great videos!
I’m getting one in a matter of weeks. Can’t wait to see what Ian thinks as well. Should of course be real comparable to the 890 Adventure R.
Great content and very informative. Curious why the KTM 790 Adventure 2023 is not on the listing. Best value for money for 2023 in the mid-size segment imo.
It’s not available in the US.
I am seriously considering the KTM 890 Adventure but leaning toward the Norden 901 Expedition due to planned longer weekend trips (2 - 4 days). Some long days on the pavement to get to brilliant dirt-road and trail sections we are fortunate enough to have where I ride.
Check out the Tuareg 660 as well.
just want to say that I envy your 4 days weekend 😂
Time for a 2024 version!
I see what you did there. Little in the way of objectivity, specs, tech and features and extremely heavy on common moto journalistic subjective biases, stereo types, and clichés.
It is why I haven’t and I never will support this type of content. I don’t buy biases, feeling, soul, character, supposed reliability, and what your idea of an adventure is.
I buy specs and feature. That is what the engineers that designs these modern marvels focus on. Specs don’t have feeling or biases. Just cold hard facts to help consumers decide if a certain product meets their expectations, wants and needs.
You are simply doing what you have always done and that’s scoring motorcycles based on your own personal biases.
Maybe one day someone will actually start an honest unbiased motorcycle review channel that nothing is determined about what a motorcycle is or what it will be to its consumer. Just what it is, what it has, what it does and what it cost. That’s it!
Tons of people have asked me to do a rating system. If I only did specs only on the channel, why would people not just read the manufacturer website to get that info.
Specifications don't tell you how the bike handles, how comfortable it is and how reliable it is. I would say a lot of Ian's comments are objective seeing as he has owned a lot of the bikes on the list!
I would love a long term durability test of one of these Chinese manufacturers. A lot of people get scared off by them, and they could have some merit, but they also may not. We just don't really know yet. I'm excited to see what they do to the industry and someone like you is an incredible resource to pioneer the way.
Another awesome video. I've got handwritten spreadsheets comparing most of these. I've got a lot of road experience, but just getting into adv. Since I am vertically challenged, I'm leaning toward the KLR 650S. That lower seat makes a huge difference for me. Thanks for the information.
I currently have a KTM 390 Adventure and bought it partially because I haven’t ridden since I was in High School and partially because I’m trying to get my husband into the sport and didn’t want him on anything intimidating.
He has now taken over the 390 and I’m stuck following him around in my Jeep and we are needing to add another bike to our collection. We live in Denver so have access to some of the best on and offroad terrain.
Sorry to ramble but this next bike will be for me and I have some more experience but don’t want anything to heavy or powerful. I’ve watched a ton of your videos to help narrow the ever growing category. I love the KTM platform so considering the KTM 790/890 adventure, Aprilia Turaeg 660, and possibly the Suzuki 800 DE. Looking for some advice on your opinion. Nothing too heavy, or over $12-14K. Thanks.
Wow 🤩 my 1200 GS (2012) is still a middle weight Adv. bike … feels even like this & lighter than the Benellis or the Moto Morini with much more comfort & torque 💪🏻✨ … thx for this effort of categorising & short but well done comparison of mid-size Adv.bikes 👍🏻
KTM 790 is lightweight :D
if the AT is on the list, shouldn't the Vstrom 1050 also be there?
Hey Ian, love your channel...long time subscriber, any chance you have plans on updating your buyers guides with updated models, bikes you've since reviewed, etc.? In the market for a new mid-sized bike and would love to see how the V-Strom 800 DE, F900 GS, and others fit into your "On Road", "Off Road", "Comfort" & "Fun Factor" ratings. Keep up the excellent work!
Looking fwd to the honda transalp review 👌👌
So much work... for nothing. You did not include the most important factor - RELIABILITY. Adventure bikes are designed for long journeys in rough conditions. Who cares if MC is perfect in all categories, but breaks easily? Who wants to have technical problems somewhere 5,000 km, 8,000 km or 10,000 km away from home? The more I travel with bikes myself, the more I understand that your reviews do not have any relation to real-life.
Hey Ian, excellent video comparison with very relevant information. I've been trying to find "new" 2022 Africa Twins in Arizona but they are nowhere to be found and haven't been for a couple of months. Honda has quite a few 2023 models available like the Groms, Monkeys, Rebels, GW's, other CRF's, and Fury's so I don't buy the supply chain excuse. Cycle Trader shows that there are a few 2022's available nationally but too far away from me. My local dealer says they aren't getting any. Any ideas? Also, I've written Honda Corporate, but haven't received a response yet.
Have a 2021 TRK502X and it is a great bike. Yes, heavy, but bang for buck hard to beat, use mainly on road. Bought mine with 1100km 3 months warranty left and shad cases on rode for AUD$7000 second hand. Comfortable, plenty of room and smooth gears and motor. Also have a 2020 Himalayan for the bush. Ian, get one, like to see your thoughts mate.
Thanks a lot your videos definitely help in making better consumer decisions and when everything is so expensive it’s great!
Question which will help me in deciding between the 890 R and Ducati. Reliability. If you had to rank them out of 5 what would they be for reliability?
Would also need to upgrade the seat to a more comfy one for longer trips. A video review or info on the options would be ideal 👌🤞👍. *I see the ktm do s heated seat? 🤷♂️ cheers dude
Great video, I would love to see the same for the heavyweight category as that is what I am looking at.