Disc Rot - A Collector's Nightmare!!!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video, I will be covering more detail when it comes to disc rot and how it affects all your disc based media. I will also give pointers too on what you can do about it.
Disc/ CD Checker: • Sega Grail Purchased a... (Skip to 5:29)
#gameroom #gamecollection #gamecollecting
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This is why software (and hardware) preservation efforts are so important.
There are things called M-Discs. They said they can live for over 1000 years.
@@okamijubei How does that help preserve discs that already exist. I personally have never had issues with disc rot so I don't think it's that big a deal though
It’s all lies only happens when exposed to sunlight or some bad moisture
Amen bro
Blu-ray games and movies are already on M-disc format and most media after 2020 if not can get the disc resurfaced not expensive😂
For some reason the thought of CDs/DVDs going bad never came across my mind
That's because for the most part, it's not real. Of course, the landfill Pacman carts will still play when a CD buried in the dirt will have layers coming apart. But this is only an issue with extremely cheap pressings of indie band CDs and the odd laserdisc. Disc rot as a concept today is mainly used to generate clicks and instill fear in people. It's also possible it's a ploy by collectors to make other people think collecting is pointless to drive down prices.
@@F0CKSTR0T It's pushed by big companies to make the mindless drones buy into the all-digital future where they'll own nothing, then when they don't like what they're left with, they'll just accept it like they usually do and lament the loss of ownership.
Physical media will become a niche is most places outside of Japan, where 70% of 2023 games sales were physical, and then people will want the thing they never supported to come back, like SEGA hardware, music you can buy instead of streaming until licenses give out, and soon physical media.
@@F0CKSTR0T All true.
I have experienced bit rot firsthand with DVD’s I bought. It’s rare, but it’s real.
Most disc rot can be sourced to the pressing plant. The PDO plant in the UK was particularly notorious.
Some misinterpreted information here:
1). Gamecube discs don't have a disc rot problem (yet). The peeling of the top label that you may see on some discs is purely cosmetic. A disc can have this but still work properly and it's also a rather rare thing to occur. It could be an indicator of a poorly handled disc in some cases, but one or two marks that look like a peeling label does not and cannot outright guarantee disc rot. As a Gamecube collector since childhood, not even my most scratched discs have any peeling and I haven't bought any discs that don't work when I see it. I have seen rotted discs before, but the peeling was never an indicator of a problem--the fact that it didn't work was....
2). CD based games are the only media where the data is stored under the label. DVD and Blu-ray based media have the data stored near the center, sandwiched in between multiple layers. If a top scratch is bad enough, it could possibly go through the layers and cracks can certainly cause oxygen to seep in or rot to occur. PS1 and PS2 blue discs are probably some of the most vulnerable disc based media because the data is literally right beneath the disc label. If the label is damaged in any way, the disc is essentially destroyed.
3). Pinholes are not always an immediate identifier of any sort of disc rot. Many times, it is the result of how the top label is applied, which is not an issue. However, multiple dots or dozens of dark dots on a CD is definitely a result of oxidized layers.
Just to add onto the first point:
The peeling of the top label on certain Gamecube discs is a known factory defect. Skies of Arcadia Legends and Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes are two of the more well-known cases. As akirafuudou2307 stated though it's completely unrelated to disc rot and does not affect gameplay or the disc's data
The label and the sheet inside the disk that is the disk itself (i'm sure there's word for that lol), are two different layers. So ya the label might be jacked up but the data could be fine.
Yea he's just weird
Pretty sure there was a video of some game store awhile back acquiring a bunch of loose GameCube discs inside a moldy disc binder that was found in storage, the disc rotting on those had it where the disc label bled through the underside and wouldn’t read at all. Inevitably, optical discs stored in such conditions will rotten no matter for which game console; even DVD movies and audio CDs can suffer the same fate, especially old mixtapes burnt onto blanks.
I bought a lot from a guy that had a bunch of gamecube games and all of them had disc rot. I only bought it cause i basically got it for free but none of the games worked.
My dozens of Saturn games are nearing 30 years old. Not a single case of disc rot. I’ve given them no “extra” care beyond storing them inside. I keep sunlight away from everything because it fades the artwork.
do ssd's suffer from disc rot?🤣
Not to mention older things are were "built to last"
@@SaraMorgan-ym6ueNo, but they do start to lose data if they are powered off for too long
@@AkaSora96 Agreed. There are other types of data rot, too. Mechanical hard drives have bit rot. If you have valuable data, you can do 2 things that I know of for data if you can get onto your computer: 1 - Make multiple copies. 2 - Use a tool Like GPAR or MultiPAR to back up your data with parity data included. When that backup has bits that go bad over time, that extra parity data makes it possible to recover everything, up to a point (depending on how many bits go bad).
@@SaraMorgan-ym6ue SSDs can only be written to so many times before they lose capacity, they're not much better.
And since digital media needs physical storage to function, it's going to be a problem for all of us in the future.
Despite this issue I’ll still buy discs because I’m disgusted by the seemingly endless monetization of entertainment. Whether it’s micro transactions in gaming or increasing subscription rates for streaming it’s turning entertainment into a luxury.
I prefer physical media also. And I've been going through my old PS2 games, and basically all the DVDs work. My blue disk (CDs) all have failed, but I discover this is a hardware problem, not the disks.
Seriously they want us to own nothing. I’ve been upset with Nintendo for embracing the subscription model. Like the only best way we can own older games anymore is through emulation.
@@DaGhostToastRoast it’s worse because I still remember when they had the virtual shop included with the Wii and it ran so much better than NSO without paying a monthly fee
@@cathrynm Yeah one quirk of the PS2 is actually the security chip itself.
If it misreads a scratched disc as a pirated disc, it fries the laser.
That's also why you may sometimes find a PS2 that only plays PS1 games and CDs but not PS2 games or DVDs.
I was born in 92 and grew up in a world of cds, cassettes, cartridges, etc. Subscriptions and digital content seemed to be a godsend at first (and they certainly have their place). Enter micro-transactions.. that shifted my perspective of ownership and digital content. I’ve been collecting vinyl for years now, and considering getting into some “retro” game and Blu-ray now. At least movies and games I care about or would want to share with future generations. Physical media is definitely a luxury today, but it’s also my way of giving the finger to post modern dystopian ideals. Best to buy these things now before we start seeing vintage prices in 2030.
I know nothing last forever, but i firmly believe cartridges will be the last games standing.
If they are PROM or mask ROM they probably will as long as they don't get powered up much as while powered a ROM slowly wears out due to electro-migration where the force of the electrons end up breaking conductors over time (literally ripping them apart on the atomic scale). This damage is the primary cause for the failure of SID, TED chips and many others in retro machines.
However if the carts are NAND flash base, they will wipe themselves clean in a few decades. NOR flash will last much longer.
Maybe. But I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing ICs in carts fail before optical discs fail. Carts have other components that can fail as well. Discs are made to last a very long time. This disc rot problem is mostly not real outside of some laser discs. If someone has a failed CD/DVD, they likely did something to cause it to fail.
@@ecco222
I think it has to do with storage. My music CDs that I've had in a CD wallet over the years started disc rot. A lot of them actually.
But ..... My video games disc that remained in their cases are still in like new condition.
Only problem I've seen with carts are the ones with a back up battery for saving games dying out. I guess time will tell.
@@onetwo6039that’s cause the plastic on the disc cases, provides a humidity & coolness that keeps the case fresh.. keeps the game also clean…
However if this humidity is not check or wiped down meaning taking out the game wiping it can cause discs not too work over time this has happened to some of my Xbox one and ps3 games I have cds that don’t work and they are not scratched what so ever😂😮😩
Hardcore never dies?
I've never intentionally touched the label or underside of a disc. Even as a young kid, I didn't understand why people would fingerprint the crap out of their discs. I think the main culprit of disc rot is people not taking care of their discs.
Seeing people touch and leave greasy fingerprints on the underside of discs triggers me.😠
@@joet7136 same here! Take care of your stuff!
Or why glass doors always end up with all those hand prints. Like there are handles on the door, you don't gotta touch the glass.
Because they were stupid.. plain and simple 🥱
or people leave their discs laying on the underside
Crisp jacket man.
This is why retro Hardware and software emulation is so important. Some will say sailing the high seas is unethical all the way up till their favorite game is walking the plank.
Also Custom Firmware and Flashcarts and ODE's are another option, if you want to still play on original hardware and not put wear to games and lasers/cart connectors.
I have nothing against piracy. If a company can't make it happen for whatever reason or simply choose not to. I don't blame anyone for doing so.
I'd gladly pay for a remaster of pokemon games like Fire Red & leaf Green without the modern era of bullshit like Let's Go Pikachu & Eevee.
Fun fact: There has never been a documented case of any real pirate making anyone walk the plank.
@@JohnSmith-zw8vp I want to believe.
@@JohnSmith-zw8vpif that’s true thats an interesting fact
I would encourage people to not worry too much about material things because nothing lasts forever. Just enjoy it while you have it.
Wise man speaks
Not true. Things can last forever if you take good care of them
@@fireboltthunder2360Entropy disagrees
@@juanfumero6951 of course your gonna disagree. That doesn't make you any more wrong on it though
@@juanfumero6951 - Entropy can go take a flying leap into a black hole
'Disc rot' is actually pretty rare, and the shelf life of even DVDs is of course significantly longer than tapes, but nevertheless it can and does happen where discs are not stored properly (and even sometimes when they are).
The culprit in my view is usually cheap manufacture. If the plastic parts of the disc edge come apart or even a small crack occurs, it oxidizes the actual data surface underneath it, decaying it almost instantly. I believe that when disc rot occurs, this is the primary reason why it happens.
If you want to replicate the effect, it can be done very easily simply by cutting through a disc with a pair of scissors. The moment a crack happens on that plastic surface, the data area will basically become all kinds of strange colors and become unplayable.
And even my very old cassette tapes are still good. Both audio and data (C=64). The only (audio) ones that are prone to breaking etc have in the past been left in a car radio cassette player for too long during hot and cold weather. Dirty and/or cheap/faulty cassette-player mechanisms can also cause problems.
I've got cd's that are over thirty years old, dvd's and games that are over twenty years old, and I've never seen or had a problem with my discs. I wonder if it is do to leaving them out in the sunlight, touching the play surface etc. All of my discs look brand new, with the exception of some cd's I bought used on ebay, and I always treat them with kid gloves.
I often wonder that too.
My copy of Shenmue has sat in my Dreamcast for two years straight in the UKs humid climate, and it works fine.
However I've lost more copies of Shadow The Hedgehog for Xbox than I have ANY other disc, it's the only one I've ever lost for seemingly no reason.
I def grab them by the edges & don't lend them out. This is a scary video. I wonder if weather & moisture where you live plays a part
Same here have 30+ old discs none have this issue all look brand new except on second hand games those have scratches but none has rot
In 30 years of owning using and burning discs and looking at 40 year old discs I have never seen a case of disc rot. Not once. I have seen discs with holes in them that read as if the hole wasn't there and I've had one disc go brown and bought a secondhand one that had some bronzing.
The ones that rot before their time are faulty having not been sealed correctly or sealed with faulty lacquer formulations such as what happened with the PDO factory in the UK in the late 80's which had swathes of discs rot within a year of manufacture simply because the lacquer they used was faulty and didn't protect the discs silver reflective layer from the sulphur in the paper of the booklet.
That was fixed and these days most paper is largely acid free and sulphur free too.
Mould can still attack a disc. It eats everything.
I also have discs that are over 30 years old and all work perfectly. Your discs will last 100 years. Disc "rot" is something that happened with certain laser discs and maybe some compact discs from a specific pressing (can't remember the details). This disc rot topic is old and it's not good to see misinformation continuing to spread.
Disc rot has been known since the first laser discs back in 1978. Back then it was caused by manufacturing defects. Though improvements have been made, the fact that different "chemical substances" are in close contact will mean the problem can never be eliminated.
"Disc Rot" count: 34
Alien archeologists will come across the only surviving video game, and it'll be the infamous landfill E.T games.
Those have pretty much all been dug up and sold off.
I own a lot of Audio CDs from the early-mid 80s, LDs and game CDs from the 90s. I have never encountered any of this on factory-made discs.
CD-Rs/DVD-Rs on the other hand...I had few that worked after 10-15 years.
My choice for long-time data backup is now professional magnetic tape; the same type we use in our studio.
I unfortunately came across this Disc rot today on alot of my 20-25 year old CDRs, Alot of very rare vinyls i recorded to CD-R back in the day are now lost, I agree with you that it seems to be old CDRs or old DVDRs that have the problem more than anything
take a shot every time he says "disk rot"
No, I like living, thank you very much.
actually it's actually pretty funny, actually
He sounds a bit like John Malkovich
Definitely
Informative video, thank you. Drink every time he says “actually”
Condensation is a destroyer of most things i've found, Stapels rusting away inside manuals is another collector issue.
Yup due to the plastic. The plastic cases create condensation in the case, it’s like oily substance in the case. Always wipe the case every few months .
Gotta be high humidity causing that. Stuff should be stored at 45-50% humidity in that area. In the summer. Most days the humidity is over 90%
Humidity is the real problem there. Try not to store your games where they'll be subjected to high humidity. Even if all you do is put them in a rubbermaid, you can make sure to keep it in a cool and dry place if the rest of your house is still hot and humid, like a closet and the rubbermaid would go along way to protecting them. Especially if you're putting them out in the garage or something, you should invest some sort air tight container you can keep them in.
@@jacobg6528 I live in a part of the UK where humidity is constantly pegged at 85% and above, whether it's -5ºC or 39ºC. I've only had PS2 DVDs fail, but my CDs, GDROMs and Blu-rays have been fine for decades in it.
It's frustrating that they originally led us to believe that discs would last forever. In the future, they might have more of our books than anything else.
Because paper is known to last forever...
@@MegiddoTheImmaculatethey can be copied
@@phoenixprism…y can discs?
@@phoenixprism*so
@@phoenixprism anything that can be made can be copied. 😅
a few of silica beads in each case has gave me the tranquility I so much craved over my collection's safe storage issues.
Careful though too dry and they will wind up like my Silent Hill 3 2 disc set and wind up dry rotting and cracking in half when you take them out of the case one day.
I think it's only CDs where the data layer is close to the label, DVDs are more in the middle between label and bottom of disc while on blu rays the data layer is even closer to the bottom side
This is correct. I came here to make that same comment.
The closer the data is to the bottom the closer the laser can focus and the more dense the data can be due to that.
Blu-ray’s at least have that protective coating that makes scratches harder to do but any larger scratches destroys them due to the data layer being so close to the bottom.
CDs are the opposite as they have no protective coating on the top and any scratches that cut through the label ruin the data layer.
DVDs are my favorite as they can handle deeper top and bottom scratches than Blu-ray or CD without destroying data.
This makes it easier to find 2nd hand copies of games that still work unlike CDs where I often find pinholes due to people setting them down label side down to avoid scratches or putting them on spindles or in CD binders.
Blu-ray’s are great and all but any bottom scratches can sometimes ruin the data.
I have several 2nd hand Wii U games that have data errors due to small scratches that are light enough for the disc to still pass as really good condition visually.
@@YTP2gowiii u game disc have such a very thin layer that a bad bd drive and or laser or even just having slight scratches can make the game unreadable… I have a lot of them I just keep them for display in their boxes for collection lol😂
@@YTP2go But Blurays have much harder plastic, I have a lot of CDs, DVDs and BRs and so far I've seen only one BR disc slightly scratched. In my opinion Bluray discs are the most durable discs.
@@47KRoman they are the least likely to get scratched but I would not consider them the most durable.
Most durable would be DVD as the data is in the middle so label scratches don’t kill it and bottom scratches can be buffed out. Blu-ray’s can’t be buffed once scratched as that would remove the protective coating and a scratch that deep would likely have hit the data layer.
With the Wii U discs, the bottom layer is not as strong and I have discs that have read errors (I dump them with my Wii U to test for read errors) with small scratches that would buff easily out had it been a DVD or even a CD.
@@YTP2go do you know in wich area of the GameCube discs are placed the data? near the top?
Took a shot every time you said "unfortunately". i am now disc rot lol
good video though! i'll subscribe!
Actually
Definitely.
First my relationship, then my cat, now my disc's... I know what's next.
Thanks for the laugh:)
@@Mirriam02 Welcome, mate.
That's a reason why preservation is a very important thing, regardless of how people frown upon it or see it as a "bad" word whenever brought into discusion. Same can be said about emulation as well.
People think preservation is bad?
@@noaharkadedelgado Some do at least in the "piracy" sense of the word, but there's no bigger anti-preservation people than Nintendo. They've been going through any romsite on the internet taking down anything that preserves their games in any way, shape or form. This has been a thing for years, yet it doesn't surprise me, sure i understand them protecting their IP and all but at the same time they've become so anal when it comes to releasing games that hasn't seen a re-release in years, let alone decades.
There's people that gets up in arms when you emulate a game "despite emulators being legal" because it's not a "authentic" experience, yet again if your game is stuck on a past gen console and you as a company don't provide a legitimate and legal way to play it on a modern console then people will resort to piracy as a result. Because there's no way in hell that i'm spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars on a 30 year old cartdrige and gaming console just to play a game. Also, if your console no longer gets any sort of support of any kind, then it's fair to hack it "at least in my opinion" as long it's possible to, which is a big no-no in Japan.
@@pablodelgado7919 yea that shit sucks bruh
@@noaharkadedelgado yeah it sucks massive poop
You are banned from using the following words: definitely and actually
And unfortunately
😂 Saved me a post
And Disc Rott.
Unfortunately, he is.
Definitely 😊
Ok ive stored my games horizontally for over 14 years. All are in great shape. What is the correlation between dics orientation and disc rot?
It doesn't cause disc rot, just makes the disc more vulnerable because of the angle it's placed in.
Important to note on discs. The label and data portions are not as simple as you mentioned. Labels on DVDs, HD-DVDs, and Blu-rays are not relevant - the exception is the very old first prints from Warner Brothers and New Line Cinema which have the label on the top side of the _inside of the disc_ back to back with the data layer as a reflective film, but those cannot be damaged without cracking the disc in half which destroys the disc in the process to begin with.
Labels on CDs are 0.6mm above the data layer of the disc. If a label is scratched, most of the time the data is also destroyed. Scratches on the laser surface can be repaired as long as the disc's reflective layer is still physically within the supported focus length of the laser carriage of the console. Personally I test the integrity of CD games by spinning it with a bright light behind it. Works well for PS1 games and PS2 CD games, as their dark plastic makes pin holes very obvious. Keep in mind that some discs have patterns on them and light showing through may not in fact be damage. Back up the disc on a PC to verify if it's damaged. Scratches in the CD Audio portion of PS1 games will still play, just the audio will just skip, no instruction or texture data is damaged. PS2 games never use CDDA as far as I can tell, any scratch means a dead game.
The data on a DVD and HD DVD (no games on the latter though) is in the middle of the disc. Damage to the label is cosmetic. Scratches are similar to the CD - same deal with repair within spec. If a disc is physically separating from damage, consider it dead. If a JFJ resurfacer has left gashes on the inner ring of a disc, consider it dead. It's been damaged by improper use of the resurfacer and the holes it has created are too deep to repair as far as I'm aware.
The data on a Blu-ray is 0.6mm from the LASER surface of the disc. How opaque the label is is irrelevant. I've put discs with complete label damage through a PS3 to verify if they still backup start to finish and they're fine. Blu-ray discs have a completely different manufacturing process to DVDs from what I can tell - they also use a completely different type of plastic, which has a higher hardness value (it requires a tougher material to make a scratch). The problem with this is that the plastic still isn't stronger than silica (sand), so any grit between the disc and a surface still scratches the disc. Except with Blu-ray, that means the data has been pierced, and the disc is now useless - except in the case of 99% of Xbox One and Series games, as Microsoft supports downloading the game digitally as long as it can be purchased digitally, but you must still use the disc to launch the installed data.
Blu-ray was designed that way because it was designed with hopes of selling the medium for industrial uses ("8 layer blu-ray disc!") instead of consumers. The medium is designed to be handled by white gloves or in caddies, not by people who sometimes put their discs on the TV stand. Definitely not by kids. It's like going to a dealership and being told the only vehicle they're going to be selling is the truck cab for an 18 wheeler because they don't want to bother manufacturing a second vehicle for consumer use. The layers beyond layer 2 (which makes a disc 50GB) tend to be hard for lasers to focus on, so drives that can become more expensive. It's why Red Dead Redemption 2 comes on two 50GB discs instead of a single 100GB or 128GB three or four layer disc respectively. The additional layers to the quoted 8 require a machine that's basically only available to businesses that make money with it, by burning customer data to disc for archival longer than maintaining HDDs is reasonable for. The kind of data you need to get the customer when they request it, so it has to be kept, but it's not data they need on a daily basis. Transaction or insurance records etc. Stuff that can't disappear, but you don't need on hand.
White scratches on the laser side of a Blu-ray that do not wipe off generally mean the disc is destroyed. For games, I've always seen this to be the case. I've only got a few discs (movies in this case) that were scratched from a multi-disc changer (according to the customer, anyway) that appear to be fine when backed up, even though they've got scratches on them that do not wipe off. That being said not all of the discs that were scratched were fine, a few of them in fact were destroyed. It's very hard to tell so I back up all movies and PS3 games. Unfortunately Wii U stuff has to be gauged by getting a general idea of where on a Blu-ray the scratch is compared to the capacity of the disc, and then looking up how big the game is when it's dumped. For PlayStation 4 and 5 discs, you can try installing it, but just assume any scratch means it's dead. It can still be personally used if it will boot and run all data on the console with the disc just being a key though. The games are rarely smaller than 25GB, except Call of Duty Modern Warfare II, and possibly indie titles.
Very informative comment. 💯💯👍
This is why the ability to back your games up is so important. I've got some DVD's that have rotted and can no longer be played, and as far as I can tell, there's no reprints available. I wish I had backed them all up years ago because then I'd still be able to watch them. I know that it being maybe 1% of my collection doesn't seem like a lot, but it should be 0%.
I have an extensive collection of over 2000 discs between all gaming consoles and DVDs & have been collecting for over 25 years...i have never had an issue with disc rot. This issue is completely alien to me. Take care of your collection and this will never be an issue for you. Another tip as a collector never buy a game or DVD that is in rough shape or already on its way out, Try not to touch your discs label's and make sure to keep them clean using a micro fiber cloth (Windex will be your best friend). I agree with Nate as i work at a retro gaming store GameCube games are the most susceptible to this issue as well as disc separation.
Thanks, Nate! I do a lot of digital now, but wanted to switch back to a lot of physical copies for my favorites. I'm subbed now and will stay glued to your channel!
I have a handful of C.D's that I've owned since the early 90s, some DVD media from the early 2000s and none of it has ever "rotted". I think most of that is due to poor handling/improper storage long term. For example, if you throw some DVDs in a plastic tote and put them in the shed out back for years, the seasonal temp/humidity changes will probably cause problems over time. Proper storage and care is usually good enough.
Like another commenter said though, you can't take this stuff with you, so enjoy it for what it is, but don't let it be your only source of happiness or a stand in for therapy if it is your only source of happiness (very common in the collector community sadly)
PREACH IT!!
Very true all of my CDs from the 90s and all of my DVDs were perfectly fine. If the disk is properly handled it should last anywhere is between 50 and 100 years, and Blu-ray is even longer. The reason why so many game collectors are having problems is because they’re buying games secondhand and they were unfortunately miss handled. The first CD bass game system my had was Sega CD and everything works perfectly fine.
Just imagine the insane lifespan of a good quality disc stored inert, i have absolutely no doubt it would be readable thousands of years later.
Well done! Being able to pass this stuff on is something I often think about. Your tips are appreciated.
After reading the comments I would say almost all observable disk rot comes from improper handling. Disks you bought new and have taken care of still look brand new. Now secondhand disks on the other hand that were not used correctly start showing damage very quickly, even if they looked alright when you got them and stored them correctly. So I guess that means you should really take care when buying used games especially if you are a collector.
True, i have an absurd amount of disc spanning decades and disc rot is unknown in my world, never seen it on any of my discs, i stay away from the cheap stuff too. Store them well and in ideal conditions in a cool dry room.
This is currently the most comprehensive video on disc rot I've seen on TH-cam so far. Thank you for putting all the information in one place. 🙂
The library of congress has found that disc rot is overblown. They found that 4% of CDs would have disc rot within 10 years. They concluded that 70% of CDs would be readable in 100 years.
"All discs are going to get it": Yeah, the vast majority will in a hundred years or so..
The ones that fail before that are faulty or stored incorrectly. Humidity must be a main factor as it helps transport oxygen into the disc. Faulty lacquer layers will allow entry if oxygen and sulphur. Luckily most paper these days is acid and sulphur free so most game manuals shouldn't attack the discs.
Oh and I should point out that the data is in the polycarbonate, the reflective layer is just there to reflect the laser. Should future society want the contents of a rare and rotten disc, it will be trivial to add a new reflective layer, they just need to spin a new one on.
You could technically store a disc in perfect condition for thousands of years if you remove the conditions for the rot to happen in the first place, if you're really keen on preservation, store them inert.
The poly structure of the plastic used and adhesives has drastically changed since the 90s.
Any form of degradation on even the oldest CD is caused by the owner and not the material components or their composition, with the extremely rare exception of a major manufacturing defect. Older plastics suffer from UVA and UVB degradation, and newer plastics do not. All plastics will suffer from heat cycling, especially bonded substrate plastics. Temperature and constant or drastic changes should be at the top of the list for longevity of plastics.
I have been Collecting Video Games for almost 40 Years. A lot of this stuff i already knew by Experience. When i would talk about the natural decomposition of disk, people would often look at me like a Deer looking at headlights....I value physicals media over Digital any day. Even when we are moving toward the Future where everything will be digital download only. A lot of the Older Titles won't exist anymore due to Licensing. So we all need to learn how to Preserve our physical media as long as we can. This is Good information for the Younger Collectors out there as well. You got a Sub from me! Looking forward to more Content from your channel!
What about newer games on the Switch. I feel like if it's like the GBC games they'll last a long time.
@@b4rs629 If your talking about Cartridge games, or games on a Flash device just make sure the Pins are clean, Free of rust. And let's hope 100% percent of the game is on the Cartridge itself. Instead of 10% percent on the Cartridge and 90% of the game downloaded from Nintendo Switch wifi is needed.... i hate it when they do this. The Physical game is just a Key to access and start the Downloads process.
Inert storage will be the next step to preserve it for many generations down the line.
I'd suggest that moisture and heat would increase or even cause disc rot.
Very good video, pretty informative, also showing amazing collection you have. I do not own any gamecube discs but ive heard it before they rot easily and ive seen numerous examples but as you said, this shouldnt stop us doing from what we love. It was also pretty informative about the manufacture defects, as i do have 1-2 discs that do have that blemishing under which as you describe is manufacter error and it doesnt seem as disc rot, and it is around center of disc as picture shown, discs however play without problems.
This is why Blu-Ray is a lot better in preventing this kind of stuff, but also the importance of storing your collection correctly.
Hey Nate,
1st. Time on your channel - well done. My little secret that ive been doing over my 40+plus years of collecting videos games. After one of my community homie (NBA - LIVE Sental Bolton) Ive installed silica gel pack in my jewel cases. I have - soon to be, 28 gaming consoles setup.(Just purchased Xbox360 series E console) So to say i have a huge library of games. "To knock on wood" no issues of yet. You now have a NEW sub - ME !! Again Nate well done and thanks.
And this is where Disk Backups and imaging come in to the rescue.
I have PS1 and Saturn discs that are like they came from the store in 1995, that haven't been kept in any special way. Some were kept in a plastic box in a wooden shed. I don't doubt it can happen, so now that I have a games room I make sure it's well ventilated from moisture.
Very true the problem is most people miss handled their PS1 and Saturn games, mostly because they were younger at the time. If any disc is taken care of properly it should last between 50 and 100 years.
Ma boy! Thank you for this! I was afraid of this issue as I've seen these marks on some of my games/movies.
***This is why I try to update to Blu-Ray versions of games/movies as I've seen almost NO signs of disk rot, but it's just me. Second... your collection rocks!
This is a scary topic for sure, cool video!😎
The hygrometer is a nice touch ! Nice organized game room. Very Impressive. Touching discs on edges only is a good practice. No fingering them all up! Lifetimes use if taken care of. Very helpful video, thanks.
Have a almost complete N.A Dreamcast collection. Around 15 years ago i stored my duplicates in a box up in a attic. When i checked on them a few years later. To my horror practically everyone of them had severe disc rot. Where the labels were all cracked up and had severe flaking. 😭
Note to self, don't store in attic
That might not be disc rot, but extremes of temperature which also cause that cracking. Disc are fine at most temperature ranges, but lots of relatively fast temperature shifting like you could get in an attic could be the cause.
@@Alienisolati0nist At the time didn't think much of it. Since the attic had ventilation.
@@Sasahara-Lafiel I get what you are saying. But the attic had ventilation. And even if the changes of temperature effected it. They still literally rotted. They were duplicates and mostly Commons. But I'd have a few extra thousand dollars if i still had them.
@@thisshouldbeentertaining3386 I should have been more specific, the cracking element. In particular if it happens in just a few years, can be down to the one layer contracting and shrinking at slightly different rate to another layer causing them to separate. Certain discs are more susceptible to this than others. Once the aluminium is exposed to oxygen, due to this cracking, you will get disc rot.
The cracking on it's own can render the disc unreadable, the disc rot is just an extra bonus to finish it off.
Ideally any disc media should be stored in areas that don't get big variations in temperature on a daily basis.
So in the living space of a house is normally fine. Lofts and conservatories can be more problematic as they tend to have bigger temperature changes.
I've read some anecdotes that the poly bicarbonate can fuse to the deteriorating plastics in cases long term, and it is actually better to store discs in paper sleeves. Also, the underside of the label is a reflective surface. If the label is somehow completely removed without damaging the data stored in the layer below,. there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to replace it. Just don't scratch the label off, as that side of the disc actually stores data. The label is generally more important than the underside for reading the data properly, but it does not store data itself, iirc.
What a misinformed mess.
I hope you have a good run with your YT Channel and wish you Luck with that,
but for your next topic I would recommend to inform yourself properly and dont just repeat made up nonsense everybody on the Internet says...
As long as you keep your games well, don't flex them and expose them to high humidity they will outlast yourself.
The metal layer is sealed between plastic and if you are not an 6-year-old anymore and appreciate your belongings and treat them properly, they will never break.
Please stop with causing panic over nothing in the collectors community
Thank you!😂😂😂
I’ve got some older stuff and agree, take care of your stuff or suffer the losses. It makes a difference .
Ive noticed that disc i put in a folder / binder get disc rot such as my music CDs that i carry along. However all my video game disc that i left in ther cases are perfectly fine after all these years later.
Did you leave the music CDs in the car during summer? I expect a lot of rot issues arise from extremes from storage or just rough handling.
@@notneb82
Yeah.... This was back in the 2000s when I dragged around all my CDs. 😂
There is also another symptoms like the disc sweating a sticky substance ,like tiny droplet around the center of the disc or in the outer area and also it could affect all the center area but it looks likes droplets or foggy/opaque layer .
The discs can be cleaned using water+ soft tissues ,wet tissues does not create any scratches but you must not apply pressure while cleaning the discs from the center to the outside .
Please make sure that the humidity is not very high in your media storage room , any inchecked water leakage can affect your discs.
It occured to my nostalgia dvds without any warning . Humidity was the culprit .
I store all my media on their original boxes , no direct sunlight and the temperature doesnt exceeds 30 c nor bellow 10c
I get flabbergasted anytime I see someone grabbing a disc with greasy hands or improperly, you would believe people have common sense but no 😅
Lol he's gotta prove disc rot is real LOL
I’ve got a different angle on this… after a couple incidents of losing photos and videos of loved ones, I became determined to protect and preserve them not only for my lifetime, but also for my kids and any further descendants.
My plan consisted of making copies of everything on multiple hard drives, multiple flash drives, multiple DVD’s and actual paper prints. Then, being smart and realizing something like flood or fire could happen, I tripled everything and kept them in multiple locations (house, garage and storage unit).
I’m currently looking at these DVD’s that are made of some kind of stone material. Sounds funny but I just heard about it the other day and it’s legit. Lasts over 100 years.
Great video. I subscribed
Purchased my first disc in 1985, still have it and plays perfectly. Pinholes on your disc is not disc rot, that's user abuse. The data on discs is actually molded into the polycarbonate, data is not in the metalized layer. Take care of your disc and your disc will play for years, decades, centuries....😴
Why is everything built to fail. F this world
Nothing lasts forever
Memento Mori.
I opened a sealed old CD from probably 20 years ago and it would not play.
Assuming it was warped I bent it back and forth a little bit. Now it works.
The same things happen to records. They have to be in a temperature controlled environment just like a fine wine.
No such thing as disk rot, it's all fake and bs. I still own music CDs from when the media switched from cassette to CD and they are just like when I bought them, same for my older games like Sega CD. Proper care and storage and they will last. That's the facts!
Facts are I have come across lots of games with disc rot. Continue to live in denial.
It's all fear mongering
Same here i lost alot of sega saturn games 😢 if its something i learned is to keep your games in well ventilated areas dont keep them in boxes or places that are extremely hot like a garage ect ect keep them fresh and cool
I got rid of my entire 90s collection, and became a software hoarder. My CDs started to peel, missing spots and other types of deterioration appeared, even though they were stored in a controlled temperature and humidity location. Unfortunately CDs are a type of media with a short useful life. I ripped everything to a NAS, and donated the physical media I had to historical preservation projects.
Yes, HDs also have a lifespan (approx. 30 years in my experience), but they are easier to maintain, I had to get rid of the nostalgic feeling of feeling in my hands, but I gained space in the house for other hobbies.
In the near future I plan to open a website to share what I have safely and free from the dirty hands of Nintendo and others copyright-sisi possibly an encrypted p2p.
Take a shot every time he says disc rot 😊 j/k good video 👍
Actually, take a shot every time he says actually. If you actually want to get drunk, black out drunk actually.
With effort, digital can last forever. Its just hard to prove if you still own the game after it breaks which I hope I can fix.
You need to say disk rot more.
uSt found you, love this stuff you be doing. i took a drink every time you said disc rot, think i', dying, was worth it...
looove this guy
Guys who sit around analyzing their discs with a microscope have more problems than disc rot. Discs and cartridges will last a long time. Future people will be digging our junk from the earth and speculating what it was used for. Just play the games and enjoy them with loved ones and stop worrying so much.
Definitely. Actually.
Scrolled down to see this. Please write your material out first and have someone review it for overused words, or just use a computer tool.
Thanks for the info though.
Ive never encountered disc rot but im sure after learning about it and seeing random recommended videos about the topic over the past 2 years. Im somehow manifesting it with my luck.
New game. Take a shot every time he says actually. Good luck not dying. 🤣
Once you mentioned Twin Snakes has issues with disc rot, I immediately checked my copy. Happy to say that both discs look fantastic. Bought it day one of release and always kept it safe.
Absolute mad respect for the game collectors out there.
" Dont friggin put your greasy palms on the lable." With that statement alone. I can tell you do not want to tamper with
this guys collection or mishandle it. Youre gonna see this guy snap and wake up hogtied in his closet or somethin.
Its Ok. I too took great care of my CDs. Not a damn scratch on any of em.
Thank you for the laugh! 😂😂😂
A few months ago I was cleaning out a store room at work and had to destroy some commercial grade CDs / DVDs. Some of these commercial CDs and DVDs were well over 30 years old and still showed no sign of degradation and were usable. There is a huge difference in the quality between a consumer grade CD/DVD back then and commercial grade CD/DVD. The commercial grade ones are way thicker. The data on them was intended to be master copies and last for well over a decade.
Collecting audio cd's is a nightmare in 2024. Most artists/labels (even the major ones) release on cd-r. Many or the cd-r's I own from 10-15 years ago look like your thumbnail or just straight up won't read even if they still look perfect. Preservation is key. Back up all your important CD's to lossless files now using EAC while you still can. I backed up my entire game library as well.
That ginormous game collection can fit on a pinky nail size flash drive
I have discs all the way back from the early 90s and they're all pristine, good as new frankly, never had any issues with reading either. This is the same level of hysteria we saw with tapes, and i happen to collect and work with audio and videotapes still and you would be surprised how durable they actually are under normal storage, i have tapes from their early inception that play great. They keep moving the goalpost for life expectancy of storage mediums, reality shows us that it's far more reliable than anyone thought.
Very interesting video. I'm not a game collector but an audio cd collector. Have cd's from the 80's till present and they are all flawless if your storing properly. The pealing labels are that some chemicals in the plastic are damping out and the label shrinks and the medium under it not. The discoloration at the edge of the disk is oxidation caused by moisture and temperature changes, especially self burned cd's stored in a car are junk after a year.
Something that was not touched upon, is the fact that factory-pressed-data discs, differ from the blank disks that you can burn your yourself. Burnable discs will experience bit rot, much MUCH sooner. Especially the ones with mirror finishes on both sides.
Also, DVDs should be more resilient than CDs, due to the difference in how they are built (the data layer on the back is under a plastic layer, not exposed).
I love physical media, but them becoming unplayable is something i get very paranoid about. Eventually we will have to use digital means to preserve media, games, music, movies etc
Thank god for cartidges.
I have a Sonic CD that the reflective layer just fell off. I've kept the now clear disc in the off chance there was a way to add a new reflective layer. It makes me sad that it can't be repaired.
You are wrong, sunlight kills mold, it kills disc rot, my copy of Metal Gear Solid The Twin Snakes is still in mint condition, I play it all the time, and I keep my collection in the sun for all to see, not in some grubby little damp basement where mold and rot grow. Take better care of your things = longer they last
Luckily I live in a dry environment and so far not a single one of my 1000+ games have any disc rot, although a couple of my most played PS2 games have some minor laser burn.
Makes it easy to see why modding a retro console so that it no longer runs from disc is so popular. At some point your discs will either rot or get destroyed by wear & tear or your console's optical drive will fail. Mods that give your console the ability to run ISOs from an SSD or an SD card seem like they'll outlast fragile optical media & drives.
Always make sure to backup your games to a HDD dedicated to storing things for a long time. Only way to make the media last forever is copies
Lots of useful information and I particularly loved the encouraging talk towards the end of the vid, good stuff!
The funny part is discs will still last longer than a digital game bought from Ubisoft
I've been backing up my DVD collection and it's surprising how few of them are rotted. I bought from various sources too, most were used from garage sales and flea markets. Out of 429 so far only 4 could not be backed up despite no visible flaws. I read CDs are expected to have a life of 20-25 years, some of mine are older.
1-Avoid sun light (direct or indirect) 2-Avoid sudden temperature changes and extreme temperatures 3-Keep moisture away 4-never touch the reading face of the disk
One huge thing not mentioned here is that there is a massive difference between disc based mediums when it comes to life expectancy.
50 cent burnable cd's will rot 'quick' (10-15 years), but officially manufactured CD's last many decades. DvD's have a longer life expectancy than CD's, and blu rays even longer than that. And even with bluray discs there are different types that will last longer. Most blurays have a shelf life expectancy of over 100 years.
Only discs I’ve ever had rot issues with is Warner Brothers HD DVD’s. Those suffered from a manufacturing defect and the glue separates in the layers.
Thanks for the info, going forward I'll be a little more cautious when handling my discs.
ive seen one GameCube game with disc rot and many sega saturn games where the foil layer is completely gone. ive even had one dual layer dvd movie fail due due a manufacture error where the dual layers started separating. almost invisible to the naked eye. for pin holes ive had brand new discs with pinholes and the music still played perfectly. its been 13 years and nothing has changed on that disc.
Note that on stamped discs out of the factory, disc rot should be incredibly rare and those discs should last for decades at the very least if taken care of. I would be more worried about the medium used to read and play the discs since those have numerous motors, rubber, plastic and other components that move and can fail. Although it is good to know that discs that were burned using a cd/rw or dvd/rw can experience this disc rot in a much shorter timespan than a printed disc. Although I have only really seen this on 20 year old burned movie CD's, and the occasional corrupt windows or linux install from the early 00's due to early signs of disc rot. You probably don't have to worry about disc rot on console based games for a good while. Just don't scratch/scuff or mishandle the disc in any way. Also keep it indoors in a room temp environment in its original packaging. But overall this is not really a huge concern unless the discs were burned not stamped, and practically anything made in a factory was stamped.
I make sure to do my best to take care of my games. They are CD Sleeves that I put in their respective game cases and are vertical in a bookshelf I specifically have for video games. I don't stack my games on top of each other. That is just dumb. I put them in the sleeves so it's easier to take care of the disc and not to really touch it too much when I take it out to play it. My games are from the Xbox and Xbox 360 era of games.
Fun fact scratches/ pinholes on the top labels of dvd games including gamecube don’t affect the games. This is because the data is located in the center of the disc.
This is a great video! I was an instructor and did a lot of briefs for power point. I have a critique i noticed watching this video. More so a tip you can take it or not its up to you. Try to limit using your hands while talking. talking with your hands too much can distract from the information you’re trying to present instead of your audience focusing on you. You can try holding something in one hand or putting a hand in a pocket. Great video amazing topic
One thing I’ve noticed about those GameCube discs is it requires more force than usual to remove from the case. I think it’s a factor. I’ve gotten good at minimizing the force of removing GC discs, though I probably forgot. Those 2 discs cases (like twin snakes) are even more annoying to remove. My twin snakes is in good condition. The climate is dry here fortunately/unfortunately
What do most collectors think of disc storage binders for games? Do they speed up the life expectancy or are they just fine? How reliable are they?
Was this uploaded on April 1st by any chance?
Compact Discs, DVDs, and Blu-rays are manufactured differently. Most people don't know this. They all look like the same discs after all. Scratches on the label side of CD's is instant death. Whereas, scratches on the laser exposed side of Blu-rays is instate death. DVD's are in-between. Disc rot is caused by the sandwiched layers of polycarbonate de-laminating.
I always make sure my discs are in tip-top shape, and I keep all my game discs in my various CD cases that I own. I make sure my games are nowhere near the sun