@@MrKoala3000 And no new comments after that! Impressive! You did it insanely fast. Possibly the fastest on TH-cam relative to length to next comment.
It's a big pet peave of mine, I'll take T-Rex in an arena battle any day but in a wilderness setting I doubt a T-Rex would bother with any animal it thought would be too much trouble.
@@MadlyMesozoic You’re going too hard into the opposite direction though. Dinosaurs, due to their cardiovascular superiority over mammals also needed to consume more calories. You think a T-Rex would avoid any elephant species? Because he could be intimidated? Dinosaurs were stronger and faster then mammals, it’s straightforward biomechanics. T-Rex did hunt triceratops, for god sake. Compared to a triceratops an elephant is just a slow, uncoordinated weak sack of meat. Same goes for paleoloxodon btw. And don’t forget the Cretaceous had Mount Everest base camp level oxygen in the air. Any elephantine species would struggle to stay alive as is. If we take examples of surplus killing seen in modern predators into account a single trex would probably get into a frenzy and could realistically wipe out a whole herd.
@@WaddyMuters I don't think I am, for one there's not alot of evidence that T-Rex hunted triceratops on a regular basis- and it just wouldn't make sense for them to either. Edmontosaurus and Struthiomimus etc. were much easier prey items. Im not denying the matchup happened, I am denying that it was commonplace. Also It seems like you pulled the everest oxygen levels thing out of thin air(ba dum tsss), because the oxygen levels in the Cretaceous were 50% higher than today- not the other way around. Same goes for the cardiovascular thing- there's no way of knowing for sure what their cardiovascular system was like, and I can't find anything that says they were superior to mammals in that regard. Again, it really seems like everyone has this idea that dinosaurs are unstoppable dragons and not animals, and your comment just confirms that for me.
@@WaddyMutersIt would be really weird that mammals in this time period regularly hunted dinosaurs larger than them if this had been true. Given elephants are one of the smartest animals on earth *now* I imagine they'd be smarter than anything else on the planet by more than a human to a dog.
One thing that would be an issue for elephants would be the fact they are not use to fighting things in its weight class, because nothing else alive is even close to their weight outside of ocean life. While triceratops fighting style probably would be similar enough for an elephant to managed, dealing with a predator as big as them is not something they are use to, let alone one larger. They never hd to fight off something like a theropod, while Trex is no stranger to horned (or tusked) animals. Now elephants are smart animals, so they should be able to learn quickly how to defend themselves, but it would mean they might be predated early on before they had the chance to adapt.
Also, elephants travel in gendered herds (idk if there's a term for this!) and males will strike out on their own usually. Females are smaller and have shorter tusks so predators could target lone males and competition for resources would be harder for females as they are significantly weaker. Still think they have a good chance though. One more thing! If dromeosaurs hunt at night, elephants would have a hard time defending as they have poor eyesight.
Maybe if they survive a couple generations they would start to evolve to be bigger every time to the point where they can actually compete more consistently with the bigger dinosaurs.
The Elephant would meet up with predators for the first time that could take it down easy and more easy then the game the predators already have on hand. The birth rate would not keep up with the Predators demand for food since Elephants don't replace them self with a clutch of eggs. They will not evolve in time before they end up as a meal and the herd wouldn't last a year.
Considering how closely related they are to Paleoloxodon, it seems reasonable that they could evolve to at least that size, which would put them equal to slightly bigger than the biggest hadrosaurs yet known, and middle of the pack among sauropods.
@@adamwu4565 No way. Elephants can't produce the numbers needed to keep up with mega size Dino predators for the herd to last the time needed. The Bulls will be the first targeted since they live alone and the Cows and their young will start getting picked off faster then they can replace them self.
Great video, this is one of the most thoughtful of the recent wave of "could mammals survive in the Mesozoic?" videos that have been catching on lately. I've generally found them to be far too dismissive of the capabilities of mammals, but this strikes a good balance.
A herd of Elephants wouldn't last a year with 8 ton predators running about that would make faster work of them then the game they already have on hand. Bulls since they live alone would get picked off first by even a half grown T-Rex and then the Cows and young.
@@neganrex5693 nonsensical take as per usual from dinofanboys. "Since they live alone", it isn't the 19th century anymore, we know that male elephants live in herds like females, looser herds, but herds all the same and if animals like Cape Buffalo are intelligent enough to change their social habits when hunted by lions then animals as intelligent as elephants will do the same. Cape Buffalo herds that are hunted by lions have much tighter herd formations than those that are not and their males are considerably more aggressive towards cats and will go out of their way to gore them. There is no reason to believe that the highly intelligent and highly social elephants wouldn't do something very similar if faced by a near peer predator. "And then the Cows and young" Wow, the tired eating the young argument. You know modern day lions hunt baby elephants, right? that homotherium specialized in hunting mammoths? or that giant hyaenodonts like megistotherium and Simbakubwa hunted gomphotheres, right? Proboscidians have literally always had to worry about predators eating their young, this is not a novel phenomenon that they would be encountering.
@@neganrex5693 Perhaps they would adapt to have the bulls live with the group also, although if the initial population is small they may very well get wiped out before they get the chance to adapt
@@hajoeijgenraam295 male elephants already live in herds, they are generally more loose than female herds, but if animals like Cape Buffalo can tighten their herds in response to Lions then animals as smart as elephants will too.
@@neganrex5693 So Elephants are somehow worse than creatures in similar weight class, that would have undoubtedly been stupider, less organized and strangely often unable to even fight back in any form (T-rex bones just don't seem to be found with any proof that any of their prey animals even tried damaging them) ? That feels a bit much to presume no?
There are some flaws in this video, there are some things I would do differently. But I'm happy it's gotten the traction that it's got. EDIT: So we're almost a year out from our first Assessing Survival episode. I didn't make this video with the intent of it being my channel's main focus- *or even later on becoming a spec evo channel* - but it certainly turned out that way. I don't hold a degree in any field of science, so I'm figuring out how to make this series better as we go. Some folks have gone balls to the wall with writing full on theses on why I'm wrong in my videos, and please know that it's not that deep. and I also don't read them lol
Really cool video I’m glad I found your channel! I am an evolutionary biologist in training and I’ve read quite a bit about relative brain size and EQ. It is not the end all be all, there is a lot of confounding noise in assessing intelligence based solely on brain and body size. From what I’ve read it seems likely that Tyrannasaurs weren’t stupid but it’s unlikely they had intelligence that could come close to rivaling an elephant.
Yes, we have photos from Safaris in the 70s, you can quickly check these old photos from the tours back in the day, before mass hunting for tusks. i.pinimg.com/736x/cc/08/cd/cc08cdd1f0112b91c38569518ecbd5d2.jpg@@thatonepossum5766
Love this video: I really feel like everyone underestimate cenozoic and modern mammals WAY too much: non avian dinosaurs weren't some roaring and near invincible monsters like every one in these last two centuries wanted to always show us: they were animals, with both limits and advantages. Same as ALL modern creatures. And elephants could have just the tools to show this, just as you showed in this video.
If they were to survive after a few million years I could see them evolving to be absolutely massive. Or they could go in a different direction and Max out in intelligence, maybe even rivaling humans in IQ. Pretty interesting
I think getting smarter is easyer then getting stronger. If Elephants had groups with male adults then they are safer against T-Rexes, but that would mean that they need to create a group dynamic that is not observed in mordern elephants. Futhermore having better eyesight would be a great improvement. In short: Bigger groups, more IQ and better versitallity would be the greatest advenatges they can get.
@@oskarraeburn5260 Smartness IS Not a Number but a tree Like in a Video Game. Predators are able to predict the movements from Prey animals, Prey animals are able to remember how many steps it is from one Bush to the next Bush with fruits. We Humans have alot of Intelligenz but WE are getting outclassed in Most Kinds of IQ. I am also Sure that animals Like elephants and whales can teach their children Like WE Humans do. The Problem is group dynamic with elephants. Male Elephants are Not protecting groups of female elephants. Futhermore Male Elephants are Not working together as much AS females do. This group dynamic IS Not good If you want to survive against a T-Rex
I could see the opposite happening. They get smaller, but faster and mature faster. Their biggest weakness is their gestation time and the time they take to grow up.
I have noticed that you don't really touch on the fact that elephants are skilled at detecting ground vibrations. Although they primarily use this to communicate or detect other elephants over larger distances in modern times, would it be safe to assume that they could use this skill to detect therapod dinosaurs before a possible conflict? You touch on the fact that there is evidence suggesting that tyrannosaurus' might have had foot pads, do you think that would be enough to make them more difficult to detect for elephants via seismic vibrations as well?
@@spinosaurusstriker it has been a while since I have watched the video so forgive me if I am innacurate but isn't it stated that there are speculations surrounding pads to reduce sound on tyrannosaur feet? This would certainly create a massive difference between stealthy theropods and edmontosaurs (which don't really focus on the same thing). Not just that, but edmontosaurus are herd animals, walking on all fours. The sheer number of vibrations would be a dead giveaway to an animal as intelligent as an elephant, I feel like. But let's assume it is 2 tyrannosaurs, if you are asking how they would differentiate them from a regular edmontosaur, though it might be more difficult you might argue that they would have different walking paces, or the padded feet of the tyrannosaur would create a big enough difference for the elephant to recognize it.
@@spinosaurusstrikerFor the T-Rex, they could gather together, since even a T-Rex would likely not want to pick a fight with an alert herd of alert elephants.
You're one of the only people I've seen doing videos like these that fairly assesses things like intelligence and intimidation factor. If we look at animals today, something as harmless as a goose can scare off large animals like cattle and big cats, simply from being bold. Now, imagine an entire heard of elephants making threat displays and trumpeting loudly enough to hurt your ears. I could legit even see sauropods backing off.
Just like archaic humans were able to scare off predators, without using weapons or fire, but just by using our stature and upright stance. Using that, and like you said, being bold and fearless...can go a long way.
Wow quality of the vid led me to believe this channel was a gem that never popped up but looks like your channel is brand new! Glad to find you this early in
I’m at 3:17, so idk if it’s mentioned, but elephant detection is BROKEN. They can know if another elephant is coming by the vibrations in the ground from their wide frequency calls. So I honestly think they’d know about any trex before even the TREX knew about them
T-Rex most likely could do the exact same thing, probably even better than elephants. We think they communicated by using very low vibrations too low for us to hear. T-Rex also has the best eye sight of any land animal ever. A Rex would see it for miles away. Not to mention T-Rex definitely has the intelligence advantage.
@@Lingist081What are you on about? T-Rex to my knowledge cannot use infrasound to detect things from up to 5 miles away. That in and of itself is a huge elephant advantage.
@@solteudoongie4519 both are underrated in terms of intelligence, there have been comparisons with chimps, and while it was debunked, they still were shitton smarter than todays reptiles, around the level of higher tier birds for sure, which is no joke, given their physical potency.
This is really cool and super impressive! The production quality is so good I figured I was watching a huge paleontology TH-camr but once I saw the subscriber count I was shocked! Awesome!!
I think Elephants would adapt so that the males stay with the herds instead of leaving and being solitary like they are in the modern day, by doing that they have more muscle to help defend calves from predators. A big advantage for the elephants is their very high intelligence, they already have a behavior to defend each other when in a herd which I think would be intimidating enough to scare off most predators, even for a massive predator like Trex. Just imagine facing a dozen full-grown African elephants, trumpeting and stamping at you, I think almost any predator would back off from a display like that unless they were starving and desperate for a meal.
I think 2 factors that weren’t explored enough were their trunks and took use Given enough time elephants could learn to use things like rocks or branches against threats A good wack with a sharp enough stick could mitigate a predators will to hunt, further more their trunks could be helpful during confrontations, being able to grab onto opponent’s or help toss them around Seeing as most of them would be in herds, chances are dinosaurs would need to adapt to them just as much as elephants would have to adapt to dinosaurs
Elephants' hearing also translates to detecting infrasound. I don't think even a T. rex's potential foot padding would be enough to offset an elephant's ability to hear them coming. Also, we shouldn't assume elephants and dinosaurs would necessarily compete. Elephants could be plenty capable of accessing food that dinosaurs can't, and perhaps a mutually beneficial ecosystem can form where elephant grazing allows for the growth of plants more palatable to ornithischians and vice versa.
The small predators that threaten the calves are the ones that elephants deal with daily in the wild, so they are not a major problem for the species in general
Edmontosaurus wasn’t twice the size of an elephant. On average it might have been slightly larger. Most specimens were about 12 meters long and 6-7 tons in weight.
Edmontosaurus consistently got huge. They’re considered the same size as T.rex nowadays. Even then they were the rex’s preferred prey. The elephant would struggle greatly.
@@curts7801 Definitely, but I think given an Elephants intelligence and their social cohesion it would be more difficult than people are willing to give it credit for
I wouldnt say their size is an advantage. It helps them today because they're much bigger than most things that might prey on them. If they have to deal with things that can match their size category, id call that a disadvantage.
Really enjoying this series (first saw your bear video). The visuals are top notch (especially the stylized elements) and the scoring system is fairly solid. This series has a lot of potential.
I wanna say that triceratops horns, despite being not as long as the elephant tusks, are way tougher than the tusks because they are made of solid bones. Also the head shields would protect the dino from lot of attacks from upfront. It’s more likely that the tusks would break if they went really hard. The elephant doesn’t have that much protection against trex other than the tusks, so I think a t rex is most likely to win against an elephant over a triceratop. Unless the elephants work together against predators of course. Edit: actually I found out that trices horns are not entirely made of bones and that tusks are much tougher than I thought. So Im not sure anymore which is tougher.
Elephant skin is 1.5 inches thick. It can stop bullets. People forget that skin IS armor just like scales are. Just because our skin is weak and thin doesn't mean other animals are the same. Also their skin is looser than ours. We're apes so our skin is very tight against our bodies. Most mammals skin is loose against the body. This makes a huge difference in a fight. Look at two dog playing or fighting. The dogs, like a pitbull, can literally rip and arm off and bite hard enough to scatter bone. But that have a hard time getting a grip on each other. Because the skin moves seperate from the animal. Which protects the muscle and bone underneath. As far as we can tell, dinosaurs didn't have this loose armor. It was tighter against the body, like a crocodile. Just like a crocodile scalely skin won't stop an elephant attack I doubt a dinosaurs will either. But we see videos of elephant skin stopping bullets, lion claw and bites, hippo bites, and even crocodile bites. There are videos of cross biting a drinking elephants trunk and the elephant lifts or drags it out of the water. These aren't the biggest crocs, less than 700 pounds. But still big enough to bite a limb off, but they can't bite off an elephant trunk.
trex teeth can get upto 12 inches which is 1 feet. combine that with that bite force you are gonna need more than 1.5 inches skin to stop that@@majinjason
@@majinjason Add to this that a Bulls charge if connecting, will easily shove a T-Rex over. The T-Rex would flee if the Elephant started a charge, like all other animals do today. (besides smart Humans, we know we can bluff them out. But still not a safe situation)
Alternative idea: Elephants and Edmontosaurs might end up traveling together/grassing together at certain times. Not only does this protect each other from predators but the Elephants early detection and ability to intimidate keeps predators away. The numbers of an Edmontosaurs heard would help Elephants protect young in a large crowd. They wouldn't be friend but maybe tolerate each other under the right circumstances
I LOVE this series, all the details of how everyone might interact are amazing, ESPECIALLY the fact that an elephant could totally throw the um... ...that one guy
"1000 subscribers by the end of the year" I think you had your sights a tad low in hindsight, it's absolutely dissevered after binging your stuff lol, keep up the sick ass work dude
I think a lot of people do not realize how unique and effective the design of the elephant is because it is a modern animal. Most large animals are either stout and are heavily armed or tall with long necks that are minimally armed. Thanks to their trunks Elephants have the armaments comparable to a triceratops with the legs of an edmontosaurus. Most estimates would have an elephant comfortably outrunning a T Rex and if the Rex ever catches up to an elephant it’s not just the tusks the Rex has to worry about. The skull of the elephant is literally just a ball of bone. If a Rex isn’t careful an elephant can break its jaw with a head butt.
Hey Madly Mesozoic, would you consider an episode on brown bears in the mesozoic? Originally I thought canines or big cats, but bears are solitary and have a natural instinct for hibernation. So I'd be interested in how you interpret their strengths/weaknesses.
I think bears have good odds. Bears are extremely unpretty eaters makes food easy, and they can also climb trees very well, which helps with avoiding danger. Bears are also highly intelligent.
Elephants are one of those very rare animals today that have a very smart brain, a long lifespan and an extremely versatile tool using organ. The only other animals today that have this combination (except humans of course) as far as i know of are great apes and bears. The only reason i can think of that they haven't started the process towards making their own civilization would be the lack of threats. Put elephants in the mesozoic and you expose them to that very thing they lack and I think this would likely result in them eventually evolving to make civilizations.
Great video! I would personally say you understated how much the matchup with Triceratops would fall in the Trike's favour, and whilst I agree that they wouldn't have issues with Ankylosaurus, it would almost certainly be due to differences in niche, rather than the Anky actually giving a damn which, all things considered, I doubt it would. The only real thing I would point out, as many others have done already, is that Elephants have no experience whatsoever fighting predators even close to their own size, let alone outweighing them. On top of that, their tusks are much flimsier than the horns of a Triceratops, so whilst initial unfamiliarity would probably allow them to play the intimidation card, after a few encounters, I suspect a Tyrannosaurus would have no problem dealing with elephants, especially bulls since they travel alone.
Very cool and interesting video, elephants def wouldve be able to survive, their intelligence and intimidation are big factors that could really help them survive dinos, also it is pretty posible that elephants adapt to have bigger herds which could mitigate a lot of the dangers they would have to compete
I'm curious how the dinosaurs would adapt with elephants now in their environment. evolution is always about adapting to the environment and competition. Ankylosaurus evolved armor for defense, Triceratops evolved horns for both defense and offense, and several theropods evolved teeth to cut deep into flesh making the target lose alot of blood. so, what if you dropped an elephant in the era of dinosaurs, then fast forwarded a few million years, what would the elephant look like after living in such an environment with large predators for so long? what would the theropod dinosaurs look like with this new animal to hunt? That's a video I would love to see. what would the elephant's and dinosaur's evolutions be if they lived together for so long?
I think a triceratops elephant situation is like a hippo rhino I know some are extinct but the ones we knew before recent extinction was they would be able to surprisingly easily kill a hippo still hard but a majority but intimidation and a lack of major intelligence lead to most retreating even more often
I think that a mix of experience , skill, intelligence and knowledge is what would allow elephants to survive a time like the Cretaceous. Hell, if evolution favored them, they could reach the size of Palaeoloxodon, the largest elephant to have existed, rivaling some large dinosaurs in weight
You're forgetting one thing when it comes to the interactions between elephants and Tyrannosaurus (or most other Hell Creek megafauna): Speed. Elephants are much desceptively fast, much faster than a T. rex and faster than the other local animals with comparable size, so running away and avoiding the conflict is a very viable option for elephants to stay safe in Hell Creek
I read somewhere that elephants can detect vibrations in the earth, this is how some individuals communicate, therefore having a poor eyesight would not be a problem, if they can feel the vibration through the ground.
Video suggestion, felines in the Mesozoic era. Felines would certainly survive in the Mesozoic Era, not only that, but they would completely dominate their niches, as small to medium-sized predators. Cats are one of the most sophisticated forms of predator that evolution has ever created. Small cats would be immediately successful, while large cats would have more difficulty, but animals like tigers could certainly adapt well. In addition to almost always being generalists, they are excessively faster than most Mesozoic animals, with few dinosaurs being as fast, they are excellent ambush predators, so even in a time with large forests without many open areas, most of them would feel at home. They are animals that usually hunt other animals even larger than them, so even with small sizes compared to medium and large theropods, not to mention megatheropods, they would still be able to stand out. They would be good predators and would not be such easy prey to capture.
One thing: While their vision may be poor I really do think they wouldnt have an issue hearing a massive dinosaur walking towards them. The heavy footsteps would probably give it away.
Kinda like that scene in Jurassic World Dominion, i can see Elephants joining herds of Dinosaurs, their trumpeting can be a huge advantage to other herd animals, as it would be an effective alarm system to warn of potential predators.
The important thing is i believe elephants would have a lot more food and a lot larger herds as a result of it. Their intelligence, far above any reptile, will allow them to put a joint front against predators.
I'm not so sure the trumpeting is such a big advantage, it's pretty big in the modern area but it's also possible for tyrannosaurus adults to actually be able to pick up much of the speech elephants do for communicating over large distances, the groups would definitely put hunts out of commission but I feel the elephant resolve wouldn't be so high to such a large predator, especially if there are two or more of them. We just don't know but I felt it's fair to point out with such high speculation and faith more then theory in practice given to a sound and even ear flapping display. It could definitely be useful, but how often.. for how long?
Where do you get your info from? Edmontosaurus wasn't "twice as heavy as a bull elephant". Estimates vary wildly (as per usual for extinct animals) but no source that I could find gave an estimate of over 9 tons. Heavier than an avg elephant for sure, but not twice as heavy as a bull. You'd have to be 14 tons for that.
You failed to talk about an Elephant’s infrasound capabilities. They can at ranges of up to 10km use infrasound to: communicate with each other, detect terrain, detect animals, detect food sources.
4:40 Small correction on that 'Spanish' there, it's "mano a mano" not "mono e mono", that's basically saying approximately "monkey and monkey" rather than "hand to hand" :p
I think the problem is that female elephants are on average half the size of a Triceratops or Torosaurus and not as well armed. Now Triceratops might not have been a herding animal like is commonly depicted but even then, every Chasmosaurine and Centrosaurine that were in about the same weight range as a female elephant all disappeared the same time T. rex shows up. I think that may be more than just a coincidence. I also feel you are over stating just how effective the elephant’s high pitched noises would have been as a deterrent. Especially since Tyrannosaurs far smaller than Rex hunted animals such as Parasaurolophus, which could also make higher pitched noises. Even then Parasaurolophus are on average slightly larger than a Female Elephant. Plus if the southern Rex population is willing to throw down with an Alamosaurus. I doubt the Northern Rex’s that regularly deal with Triceratops would not be intimidated by a bunch of female Elephants yelling at them. This isn’t to say that Rex is a killing machine that butchers everything. Just that with Triceratops and Torosaurus both filling the same niche as Elephants, as a large horned animal, Ankylosaurus and Denversaurus are both low ground feeders that primarily are left alone by everything beside a desperate Rex, and Edmontosaurus being a large herding animal. I don’t know if there would necessarily be a niche for elephants to fill. Also all of the non-avian dinosaurs breed much faster than elephants do. So every time some dumb young male elephant in musk that picks a fight with a Triceratops or Torosaurus only to get severely injured. Hurts the elephant population far more than if the Ceratopsians loose that particular conflict. I think Elephant would have a far easier time in the eastern US, where there are Hadrosaurs, Lambeosaurs, Saurolophines, Nodosaurs, and Leptoceratopsids. They could easily fulfill the same niche as the Centrosaurines. As a large animals that travel together in large herds that have sharp things on their face to defend themselves, and not much else. Now they would still be on the menu of any Appalachian Eutyrannosaur, but they would struggle far more hunting one than a T. rex would. For 1 T. rex can chomp right through bone, so I doubt even an elephants tough hide could protect it from a Rex’s and 2 Appalachian Tyrannosaurs, from what little sample data we do have (since we only know of animals on the east coast, leaving everything that lived in Eastern Canada and east of the Appalachian Mountains until Kansas mostly a mystery to us.) they were built far more like an Allosaur that the typical bone crunching Tyrannosaur, since they often hunted prey larger than themselves and for whatever reason Leptoceratopsians never grew to the same sizes as the more derived Centrosaurs and Chasmosaurs did. (As far as we know.) So generally they primarily hunted Ornithomimids and Hadrosaurs, with the occasional Nodosaur here and their if they wanted a face full of spikes. (Also I am aware that Lambeosaurs and Saurolophines are hadrosaurs, I just don’t have a general group term for the Appalachian Hadrosaurus that doesn’t also cover those two more derived groups.)
I magine it would feel pretty surreal for an elephant encountering an Endmontosaurus for the first time and getting shoved out of the way just like how elephants typically shove everything out of the way in their natural environment. Elephants might be smart enough to be able to adjust their behavior, but it would still take time to adjust to no longer being the biggest, strongest animals around anymore.
Elephants could probably also use throwing as Intimidation we see them use it to scare off rhinos today Also elephants can hear through their feet low frequency noises which allows them to communicate great distances if the Trex had that deep rumbling noise ive heard then it may be low enough for the elephant to hear
4:31 Any source I could find claims they weight roughly the same.I would still give Triceratops the edge anyway due to it's better head protection. But I don't think they would really fight anyway Elephants can eat from way hugher branches than Triceratops so thye would most likely avoid confrontation.
Elephants are really strong and the adults could survive for sure, but I don't know if they could properly raise young in the mesozoic. That long time to reach sexual maturity REALLY hurts, where you can be picked off by dromeosaurs, tyrannosaurs, or other predators that have a size advantage on the elephants. Reaching adulthood would be really tough.
I think maybe the biggest change would be their behavior, specifically the bulls. Instead of leaving the herd and being solitary or forming bachelor groups they would stay with their herd and help defend against predators. Elephants would probably be the smartest animals and could learn to defend themselves pretty quickly. They could fullfil a different niche compared to the other herbivores, eating leaves and flowers.
In the most kind way ever, your wrong on the triceratops vs elephant. Not only would a triceratops beat an elephant but it would beat it it with low difficulty. Triceratops also lived in herds so the elephant using numbers is unlikely too. The thing you got right would be the intimidation factor but even then an elephant would most likely take one good look at the triceratops and decide that the food is not worth the risk
Theres really not alot of evidence to support that Triceratops lived in herds like in movies. Theres been a few instances of one or two individuals being found together but nothing like other known herding dinosaurs. I really don't agree with you.
The other thing is, as lush as the Cretaceous was, it's entirely possible we might see little to no competition between large herbivores, who instead form super herds like what we see in parts of Africa today...purely for the sake of warding off the super-predators of the day.
-No longer being the dominant herbavore -Alamosaurs are far larger and have assess to the best leaves -No abundance of grass instead replaced by hardy, fiberous, lignin abundant tough ferns, palms and cycads with more antinutrients -Triceratops are larger and better armed -Ankylosaurus are heavily armoured and equipped -Edmontosaurs are larger and way faster Adult male bush elephant can realistically run at 11mph, juveniles elephant are faster though Kind of makes them the least problematic for the Rex to take down compared to the usual four large herbavoirs If they move north and grass was widely available there then they can get bigger however getting smaller would be far faster than getting larger. An elephant will have a metabolic rate several folds higher than a cold blooded triceratops. In the north Albertasaurus will not nearly be as threatening as T-rex and Pachyrhinosaurus would be less of an issue than Triceratops which is likely more aggressive and bigger with bulls being upto 13 tonnes Elephants need to be free from large predators that will exhert a tremendious r selection pressure that reduce their size, gestation length and breeding cycle. Elephant can be at the limit of K selection pressure for size considering they don't really have any potential predators once they are adult. The moment they go back to the cretacious dinosaurs that changes. Triceratops, edmontosaurus has dozens of eggs on a yearly basis, they could cope with the attrition of a predating Rex. A single female Triceratops could easily have over several hundreds eggs in it's lifetime as opposed to 2 or 4 calves that a female elephant would have. Elephant single death would be very slow to replace. Adult male elephants would likely need to swallow their pride and stay with the herd. Androgens especially the 5 alpha reduced androgens are very immunosuppressive and forces males to leave the herd to avoid diseases, but if they suppress androgens and increase prolactin when staying with the herd, they will sort of self domesticate like the indian elephants. We will probably see some trade off between better co-operation and rearing over size and aggression. If male adults stay their way a go solo, a Rex(s) with pick a elephant over Triceratops anyday. Elephant tusks tend to point down which is good at dealing with shorter mammal with low centre of gravity but utterly disadvantage when facing a rex, those tusk will not be pointing anywhere that can hurt rex at neutral neck position. Elephant will have to either curl their tusk upwards or have them point up through natural selection. They may also need better trap attachments to raise their necks, so I envisiom african bush elephant looking more bison like with hump, or just more like asian elephants/mammoth. Elephant skull are also relatively light due to large air cavity to save weight, they may evolve to be lighter to fence off tyrannosaurs with their tusks as a Rex is very agile for an animal of it's size. Or go heavier and develop more of a denser skull that can ram and trade away some of the lanky under muscled columnar limbs and be more stocky and built like a rhino, who could actually ram and gallop, more like to a mastodon. Unlike the savannah elephants will be very vulnerable to getting ambushed by a T Rex when they sleep, rest or at night when they can't see. I could easily envision a pair of breeding Rexes, getting peeved off with a massive stench of egg theiving mammals to only find out that it's potential prey and taking it down. Sue and Scotty are like double the weight of a bull african elephant so it probably won't end well.
Some fair points, but some things here don't make sense. -Alamosaurus has not been found in Hell Creek, hense why I did not mention it. Also, Elephants and Sauropods would not be competing with each other at all. An Elephant couldn't reach anywhere near the "feeding zone" of sauropods. - Albertosaurus and T-Rex are separated by more than 4 million years, and did not coexist. - Every animal sleeps, this wouldn't be a problem specific to Elephants. - Yes, Elephant tusks are curved slightly downward, but still come to a forward point in most cases. They're maybe under a foot lower in height than triceratops horns. Low to the ground tusks are typically only seen in very old elephants or elephants who don't frequently use them. - Elephants really only tend to eat grass in the dry season, even then it only makes up 40% of their diet, less than 10% in the wet season. I personally don't think grass would be a big part of their diet even if it was present in the Cretaceous. It would be mostly early fruits, leaves, shrubs and tree bark.
You must've mixed up the size of Edmontosaurus with Shantungosaurus, since Edmontosaurus didn't even get anywhere close to being "Twice the size of an elephant" 😂 Great vid though.
The African Elephant may just benefit from sharing territory with average-sized Maastrichtian Hadrosaurs like Kritosaurus, Charonosaurus and even Huallasaurus, since the sharp-eyed duckbills could be the lookout, thus allowing the Elephants to survive in the Cretaceous! :D
Wanna see how these guys evolve to better suit their new environment? Check out Part 2! th-cam.com/video/nx5DDH7EwqU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-0jjoYZWYpSuRCRl
45 mins ago 😱
@@MrKoala3000 And no new comments after that! Impressive! You did it insanely fast. Possibly the fastest on TH-cam relative to length to next comment.
@@Drawgur2705 lol
I see you used a clip from Goji Center’s Tyrannosaurus rex vs. Palaeoloxodon namadicus Monster Face-Off.
It is also recently confirmed that triceratops had quills
You’re one of the only TH-camrs I’ve seen treat the trex as an actual animal and not an ultimate killing machine.
It's a big pet peave of mine, I'll take T-Rex in an arena battle any day but in a wilderness setting I doubt a T-Rex would bother with any animal it thought would be too much trouble.
@@MadlyMesozoic You’re going too hard into the opposite direction though.
Dinosaurs, due to their cardiovascular superiority over mammals also needed to consume more calories.
You think a T-Rex would avoid any elephant species? Because he could be intimidated?
Dinosaurs were stronger and faster then mammals, it’s straightforward biomechanics.
T-Rex did hunt triceratops, for god sake. Compared to a triceratops an elephant is just a slow, uncoordinated weak sack of meat. Same goes for paleoloxodon btw.
And don’t forget the Cretaceous had Mount Everest base camp level oxygen in the air.
Any elephantine species would struggle to stay alive as is.
If we take examples of surplus killing seen in modern predators into account a single trex would probably get into a frenzy and could realistically wipe out a whole herd.
@@WaddyMuters I don't think I am, for one there's not alot of evidence that T-Rex hunted triceratops on a regular basis- and it just wouldn't make sense for them to either. Edmontosaurus and Struthiomimus etc. were much easier prey items. Im not denying the matchup happened, I am denying that it was commonplace. Also It seems like you pulled the everest oxygen levels thing out of thin air(ba dum tsss), because the oxygen levels in the Cretaceous were 50% higher than today- not the other way around. Same goes for the cardiovascular thing- there's no way of knowing for sure what their cardiovascular system was like, and I can't find anything that says they were superior to mammals in that regard. Again, it really seems like everyone has this idea that dinosaurs are unstoppable dragons and not animals, and your comment just confirms that for me.
@@WaddyMutersIt would be really weird that mammals in this time period regularly hunted dinosaurs larger than them if this had been true. Given elephants are one of the smartest animals on earth *now* I imagine they'd be smarter than anything else on the planet by more than a human to a dog.
@@SeraSmiles Troodontids and Dromaeosaurs wouldn't have been that far off from elephants in terms of intelligence.
One thing that would be an issue for elephants would be the fact they are not use to fighting things in its weight class, because nothing else alive is even close to their weight outside of ocean life.
While triceratops fighting style probably would be similar enough for an elephant to managed, dealing with a predator as big as them is not something they are use to, let alone one larger. They never hd to fight off something like a theropod, while Trex is no stranger to horned (or tusked) animals.
Now elephants are smart animals, so they should be able to learn quickly how to defend themselves, but it would mean they might be predated early on before they had the chance to adapt.
Well the males would have experience fighting other elephants.
@@malluk3065that’s not really the same as fighting a trex
@@malluk3065might be close enough to a triceratops though
Also, elephants travel in gendered herds (idk if there's a term for this!) and males will strike out on their own usually. Females are smaller and have shorter tusks so predators could target lone males and competition for resources would be harder for females as they are significantly weaker. Still think they have a good chance though.
One more thing! If dromeosaurs hunt at night, elephants would have a hard time defending as they have poor eyesight.
Elephants fight rhinos
Maybe if they survive a couple generations they would start to evolve to be bigger every time to the point where they can actually compete more consistently with the bigger dinosaurs.
Palaeoxodon enters in to chat
The Elephant would meet up with predators for the first time that could take it down easy and more easy then the game the predators already have on hand. The birth rate would not keep up with the Predators demand for food since Elephants don't replace them self with a clutch of eggs. They will not evolve in time before they end up as a meal and the herd wouldn't last a year.
@@misteroscuridad9719 That one would actually survive since it can rival the T-Rex in size, weight and weapons.
Considering how closely related they are to Paleoloxodon, it seems reasonable that they could evolve to at least that size, which would put them equal to slightly bigger than the biggest hadrosaurs yet known, and middle of the pack among sauropods.
@@adamwu4565 No way. Elephants can't produce the numbers needed to keep up with mega size Dino predators for the herd to last the time needed. The Bulls will be the first targeted since they live alone and the Cows and their young will start getting picked off faster then they can replace them self.
Great video, this is one of the most thoughtful of the recent wave of "could mammals survive in the Mesozoic?" videos that have been catching on lately. I've generally found them to be far too dismissive of the capabilities of mammals, but this strikes a good balance.
A herd of Elephants wouldn't last a year with 8 ton predators running about that would make faster work of them then the game they already have on hand. Bulls since they live alone would get picked off first by even a half grown T-Rex and then the Cows and young.
@@neganrex5693 nonsensical take as per usual from dinofanboys. "Since they live alone", it isn't the 19th century anymore, we know that male elephants live in herds like females, looser herds, but herds all the same and if animals like Cape Buffalo are intelligent enough to change their social habits when hunted by lions then animals as intelligent as elephants will do the same. Cape Buffalo herds that are hunted by lions have much tighter herd formations than those that are not and their males are considerably more aggressive towards cats and will go out of their way to gore them. There is no reason to believe that the highly intelligent and highly social elephants wouldn't do something very similar if faced by a near peer predator.
"And then the Cows and young"
Wow, the tired eating the young argument. You know modern day lions hunt baby elephants, right? that homotherium specialized in hunting mammoths? or that giant hyaenodonts like megistotherium and Simbakubwa hunted gomphotheres, right? Proboscidians have literally always had to worry about predators eating their young, this is not a novel phenomenon that they would be encountering.
@@neganrex5693 Perhaps they would adapt to have the bulls live with the group also, although if the initial population is small they may very well get wiped out before they get the chance to adapt
@@hajoeijgenraam295 male elephants already live in herds, they are generally more loose than female herds, but if animals like Cape Buffalo can tighten their herds in response to Lions then animals as smart as elephants will too.
@@neganrex5693 So Elephants are somehow worse than creatures in similar weight class, that would have undoubtedly been stupider, less organized and strangely often unable to even fight back in any form (T-rex bones just don't seem to be found with any proof that any of their prey animals even tried damaging them) ? That feels a bit much to presume no?
There are some flaws in this video, there are some things I would do differently. But I'm happy it's gotten the traction that it's got.
EDIT: So we're almost a year out from our first Assessing Survival episode. I didn't make this video with the intent of it being my channel's main focus- *or even later on becoming a spec evo channel* - but it certainly turned out that way. I don't hold a degree in any field of science, so I'm figuring out how to make this series better as we go. Some folks have gone balls to the wall with writing full on theses on why I'm wrong in my videos, and please know that it's not that deep.
and I also don't read them lol
i thought it was great. hindsight is always 20/20. please keep making them i like the format
what are they? please share your belated insights. Maybe a follow-up video?
Do donosaurs vs Alexander the greats army.
One thing I wanted to mention is that elephants have amazing senses of smell, even better than canines
Really cool video I’m glad I found your channel! I am an evolutionary biologist in training and I’ve read quite a bit about relative brain size and EQ. It is not the end all be all, there is a lot of confounding noise in assessing intelligence based solely on brain and body size. From what I’ve read it seems likely that Tyrannasaurs weren’t stupid but it’s unlikely they had intelligence that could come close to rivaling an elephant.
There's a battle scene in "The Valley of Gwangi" (1969) where a large theropod (Allosaurus?) fights an Indian elephant.
Yeah I feel like Gwangi was too op he beats a Starcysaur
Sons and daughters of the most high, do not forget. Christ is king!👑
All heil Christopher
@@jpraise6771this has literally nothing to do with the topic.
There have been a lot of kings through history, so who cares about one more.
@@tomwanders6022facts
Also before mass irony hunting. Elephants used to have massive migrating herds as well.
Even more so, then
Are you able to give a source for this? I’m not saying I don’t believe you, I’m just interested and want to learn more about that than one sentence.
I can’t believe that humans did mass irony hunting 😢
Yes, we have photos from Safaris in the 70s, you can quickly check these old photos from the tours back in the day, before mass hunting for tusks. i.pinimg.com/736x/cc/08/cd/cc08cdd1f0112b91c38569518ecbd5d2.jpg@@thatonepossum5766
@@asmagamer728Stop the irony trade!
Love this video: I really feel like everyone underestimate cenozoic and modern mammals WAY too much: non avian dinosaurs weren't some roaring and near invincible monsters like every one in these last two centuries wanted to always show us: they were animals, with both limits and advantages. Same as ALL modern creatures. And elephants could have just the tools to show this, just as you showed in this video.
If they were to survive after a few million years I could see them evolving to be absolutely massive. Or they could go in a different direction and Max out in intelligence, maybe even rivaling humans in IQ. Pretty interesting
I think getting smarter is easyer then getting stronger. If Elephants had groups with male adults then they are safer against T-Rexes, but that would mean that they need to create a group dynamic that is not observed in mordern elephants. Futhermore having better eyesight would be a great improvement. In short: Bigger groups, more IQ and better versitallity would be the greatest advenatges they can get.
You get that humans aren’t really smarter than elephants, the only reason we are where we are is that we can keep knowledge alive and build on it
@@oskarraeburn5260 Smartness IS Not a Number but a tree Like in a Video Game. Predators are able to predict the movements from Prey animals, Prey animals are able to remember how many steps it is from one Bush to the next Bush with fruits. We Humans have alot of Intelligenz but WE are getting outclassed in Most Kinds of IQ. I am also Sure that animals Like elephants and whales can teach their children Like WE Humans do. The Problem is group dynamic with elephants. Male Elephants are Not protecting groups of female elephants. Futhermore Male Elephants are Not working together as much AS females do. This group dynamic IS Not good If you want to survive against a T-Rex
I could see the opposite happening. They get smaller, but faster and mature faster. Their biggest weakness is their gestation time and the time they take to grow up.
@@JourneyLT That would give their competitors an advantage though
I have noticed that you don't really touch on the fact that elephants are skilled at detecting ground vibrations. Although they primarily use this to communicate or detect other elephants over larger distances in modern times, would it be safe to assume that they could use this skill to detect therapod dinosaurs before a possible conflict? You touch on the fact that there is evidence suggesting that tyrannosaurus' might have had foot pads, do you think that would be enough to make them more difficult to detect for elephants via seismic vibrations as well?
Not only that but how are they going to searate from what is a t rex or maybe just an edmontosaurus.
@@spinosaurusstriker they might not be able to tell the difference and just avoid the animal all together. I think they're smart enough to do that.
@@spinosaurusstriker it has been a while since I have watched the video so forgive me if I am innacurate but isn't it stated that there are speculations surrounding pads to reduce sound on tyrannosaur feet? This would certainly create a massive difference between stealthy theropods and edmontosaurs (which don't really focus on the same thing). Not just that, but edmontosaurus are herd animals, walking on all fours. The sheer number of vibrations would be a dead giveaway to an animal as intelligent as an elephant, I feel like. But let's assume it is 2 tyrannosaurs, if you are asking how they would differentiate them from a regular edmontosaur, though it might be more difficult you might argue that they would have different walking paces, or the padded feet of the tyrannosaur would create a big enough difference for the elephant to recognize it.
@@spinosaurusstrikerFor the T-Rex, they could gather together, since even a T-Rex would likely not want to pick a fight with an alert herd of alert elephants.
They also use this to detect lions afaik. So if they can detect lions, they could probably tell a t rex apart from other animals
You're one of the only people I've seen doing videos like these that fairly assesses things like intelligence and intimidation factor. If we look at animals today, something as harmless as a goose can scare off large animals like cattle and big cats, simply from being bold. Now, imagine an entire heard of elephants making threat displays and trumpeting loudly enough to hurt your ears. I could legit even see sauropods backing off.
Just like archaic humans were able to scare off predators, without using weapons or fire, but just by using our stature and upright stance. Using that, and like you said, being bold and fearless...can go a long way.
@@Ispeakthetruthify Would the African Elephants make the vast majority of giant dinosaur species on Earth go extinct as a result?
Wow quality of the vid led me to believe this channel was a gem that never popped up but looks like your channel is brand new! Glad to find you this early in
I’m at 3:17, so idk if it’s mentioned, but elephant detection is BROKEN. They can know if another elephant is coming by the vibrations in the ground from their wide frequency calls. So I honestly think they’d know about any trex before even the TREX knew about them
T-Rex most likely could do the exact same thing, probably even better than elephants. We think they communicated by using very low vibrations too low for us to hear. T-Rex also has the best eye sight of any land animal ever. A Rex would see it for miles away. Not to mention T-Rex definitely has the intelligence advantage.
@@Lingist081What are you on about? T-Rex to my knowledge cannot use infrasound to detect things from up to 5 miles away. That in and of itself is a huge elephant advantage.
@@Lingist081 T. rex was probably one of the smartest non-avian dinosaurs, but we cannot agree that its intelligence rivals that of an Elephant.
@@solteudoongie4519 both are underrated in terms of intelligence, there have been comparisons with chimps, and while it was debunked, they still were shitton smarter than todays reptiles, around the level of higher tier birds for sure, which is no joke, given their physical potency.
I genuinely love finding early vids from a channel. You've broke your sub goal by 47x, and I'd bet you break it by 100x by the end of the year!
This is really cool and super impressive! The production quality is so good I figured I was watching a huge paleontology TH-camr but once I saw the subscriber count I was shocked! Awesome!!
I think Elephants would adapt so that the males stay with the herds instead of leaving and being solitary like they are in the modern day, by doing that they have more muscle to help defend calves from predators. A big advantage for the elephants is their very high intelligence, they already have a behavior to defend each other when in a herd which I think would be intimidating enough to scare off most predators, even for a massive predator like Trex. Just imagine facing a dozen full-grown African elephants, trumpeting and stamping at you, I think almost any predator would back off from a display like that unless they were starving and desperate for a meal.
If i could redo this video I would include a speculative evolution section that would include that.
@@MadlyMesozoic ahh nice that would be cool to see
@@MadlyMesozoic Would be a nice video to redo. Maybe not now, but perhaps after a couple more videos since the Orca one.
@@MadlyMesozoicYou could make a pt2
I think you're very right. If they get through the first several months they're intelligent enough to adapt their behavior and survive.
I think 2 factors that weren’t explored enough were their trunks and took use
Given enough time elephants could learn to use things like rocks or branches against threats
A good wack with a sharp enough stick could mitigate a predators will to hunt, further more their trunks could be helpful during confrontations, being able to grab onto opponent’s or help toss them around
Seeing as most of them would be in herds, chances are dinosaurs would need to adapt to them just as much as elephants would have to adapt to dinosaurs
Elephants have two massive sticks growing out of their mouths already
Elephants already use tools like sticks and branches for wacking or distracting animals
Nicely done analysis video! I love both Elephants and Dinosaurs! Subbed!
This channel is the most underrated channel on the platform. Keep up the amazing content! 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥
"You don't need to be smart to know that you're bigger than someone." Words of incredible wisdom.
Elephants' hearing also translates to detecting infrasound. I don't think even a T. rex's potential foot padding would be enough to offset an elephant's ability to hear them coming.
Also, we shouldn't assume elephants and dinosaurs would necessarily compete. Elephants could be plenty capable of accessing food that dinosaurs can't, and perhaps a mutually beneficial ecosystem can form where elephant grazing allows for the growth of plants more palatable to ornithischians and vice versa.
The small predators that threaten the calves are the ones that elephants deal with daily in the wild, so they are not a major problem for the species in general
Just found this, so happy I found this video and your channel! I’m excited to see where this series goes!
Glad Im not the only person to have stumbled across this new gem of a channel! I have a feeling this channel is gonna get pretty popular! 👌
Edmontosaurus wasn’t twice the size of an elephant. On average it might have been slightly larger. Most specimens were about 12 meters long and 6-7 tons in weight.
In volume, it is twice the size.
A edmontosaurus can get up to 11-13 tons. stop using those outdated information
Shantungosaurus, a close relative of Edmontosaurus, was even bigger, exceeding 50 feet in length and possibly surpassing 20 tons!
Edmontosaurus consistently got huge. They’re considered the same size as T.rex nowadays. Even then they were the rex’s preferred prey. The elephant would struggle greatly.
@@curts7801 Definitely, but I think given an Elephants intelligence and their social cohesion it would be more difficult than people are willing to give it credit for
I wouldnt say their size is an advantage. It helps them today because they're much bigger than most things that might prey on them. If they have to deal with things that can match their size category, id call that a disadvantage.
Really enjoying this series (first saw your bear video). The visuals are top notch (especially the stylized elements) and the scoring system is fairly solid. This series has a lot of potential.
I wanna say that triceratops horns, despite being not as long as the elephant tusks, are way tougher than the tusks because they are made of solid bones. Also the head shields would protect the dino from lot of attacks from upfront. It’s more likely that the tusks would break if they went really hard.
The elephant doesn’t have that much protection against trex other than the tusks, so I think a t rex is most likely to win against an elephant over a triceratop. Unless the elephants work together against predators of course.
Edit: actually I found out that trices horns are not entirely made of bones and that tusks are much tougher than I thought. So Im not sure anymore which is tougher.
Yes, a T-Rex 1 on 1 would win but in a wilderness setting I don't see a T-Rex going for an adult elephant, not even if it was a Bull on its own.
Elephant skin is 1.5 inches thick. It can stop bullets. People forget that skin IS armor just like scales are.
Just because our skin is weak and thin doesn't mean other animals are the same. Also their skin is looser than ours. We're apes so our skin is very tight against our bodies.
Most mammals skin is loose against the body. This makes a huge difference in a fight. Look at two dog playing or fighting. The dogs, like a pitbull, can literally rip and arm off and bite hard enough to scatter bone. But that have a hard time getting a grip on each other. Because the skin moves seperate from the animal. Which protects the muscle and bone underneath.
As far as we can tell, dinosaurs didn't have this loose armor. It was tighter against the body, like a crocodile.
Just like a crocodile scalely skin won't stop an elephant attack I doubt a dinosaurs will either. But we see videos of elephant skin stopping bullets, lion claw and bites, hippo bites, and even crocodile bites. There are videos of cross biting a drinking elephants trunk and the elephant lifts or drags it out of the water. These aren't the biggest crocs, less than 700 pounds. But still big enough to bite a limb off, but they can't bite off an elephant trunk.
trex teeth can get upto 12 inches which is 1 feet. combine that with that bite force you are gonna need more than 1.5 inches skin to stop that@@majinjason
trice horns are not bones
there keratine just like our hair
@@majinjason Add to this that a Bulls charge if connecting, will easily shove a T-Rex over. The T-Rex would flee if the Elephant started a charge, like all other animals do today. (besides smart Humans, we know we can bluff them out. But still not a safe situation)
Alternative idea: Elephants and Edmontosaurs might end up traveling together/grassing together at certain times. Not only does this protect each other from predators but the Elephants early detection and ability to intimidate keeps predators away. The numbers of an Edmontosaurs heard would help Elephants protect young in a large crowd. They wouldn't be friend but maybe tolerate each other under the right circumstances
Trexes are actually way smarter then we thought they would be updates recently came im fr!!! I love ur videos sm tbh!!
I LOVE this series, all the details of how everyone might interact are amazing, ESPECIALLY the fact that an elephant could totally throw the um... ...that one guy
Lmao "My goal is to reach 1000 subscribers by the end of the year". Currently at 26.1K, well done dude.
I love this series! Especially the speculative evolution aspect of it, please make more :D
"1000 subscribers by the end of the year" I think you had your sights a tad low in hindsight, it's absolutely dissevered after binging your stuff lol, keep up the sick ass work dude
Your very underrated and your video are very high quality. I hope you can get more views soon!
I appreciate that!
DUUUDE!!! I need you to make more long-form content!!!! I like your versions and quirks (allosaurus fights?) so much and it reminds me of TierZoo
This channel was definitely underrated
Awesome Channel by the way. Keep cranking those survival vids 👍🏼
My favorite animal vs my favorite prehistoric period. This is good.
I found your channel independently from tiktok, that means the algorithm likes you. I see a bright future fo your channel
I saw a video of an elephant lifting a truck with one of his tusks! it was terrifying!
I think a lot of people do not realize how unique and effective the design of the elephant is because it is a modern animal.
Most large animals are either stout and are heavily armed or tall with long necks that are minimally armed.
Thanks to their trunks Elephants have the armaments comparable to a triceratops with the legs of an edmontosaurus.
Most estimates would have an elephant comfortably outrunning a T Rex and if the Rex ever catches up to an elephant it’s not just the tusks the Rex has to worry about. The skull of the elephant is literally just a ball of bone.
If a Rex isn’t careful an elephant can break its jaw with a head butt.
Awesome channel man! Keep it up!
I really liked the thing you did with the bears where you showed how they would potentially evolve
Hey Madly Mesozoic, would you consider an episode on brown bears in the mesozoic? Originally I thought canines or big cats, but bears are solitary and have a natural instinct for hibernation. So I'd be interested in how you interpret their strengths/weaknesses.
It's certainly one I'm willing to do- the one I'm working on currently won't be out till January, but that one could be next.
@@MadlyMesozoic oh boy, glad to hear. Merry Christmas :)
I think bears have good odds. Bears are extremely unpretty eaters makes food easy, and they can also climb trees very well, which helps with avoiding danger. Bears are also highly intelligent.
This is an excellent channel. I'm glad youtube recommended it to me
This is something I would love To watch For a Tv Series
Elephants are one of those very rare animals today that have a very smart brain, a long lifespan and an extremely versatile tool using organ. The only other animals today that have this combination (except humans of course) as far as i know of are great apes and bears. The only reason i can think of that they haven't started the process towards making their own civilization would be the lack of threats. Put elephants in the mesozoic and you expose them to that very thing they lack and I think this would likely result in them eventually evolving to make civilizations.
Great video! I would personally say you understated how much the matchup with Triceratops would fall in the Trike's favour, and whilst I agree that they wouldn't have issues with Ankylosaurus, it would almost certainly be due to differences in niche, rather than the Anky actually giving a damn which, all things considered, I doubt it would.
The only real thing I would point out, as many others have done already, is that Elephants have no experience whatsoever fighting predators even close to their own size, let alone outweighing them. On top of that, their tusks are much flimsier than the horns of a Triceratops, so whilst initial unfamiliarity would probably allow them to play the intimidation card, after a few encounters, I suspect a Tyrannosaurus would have no problem dealing with elephants, especially bulls since they travel alone.
I'd love to see more stuff like this (always wondered how something like Ceratosaurus would do in the current landscapes)
Very cool and interesting video, elephants def wouldve be able to survive, their intelligence and intimidation are big factors that could really help them survive dinos, also it is pretty posible that elephants adapt to have bigger herds which could mitigate a lot of the dangers they would have to compete
I'm curious how the dinosaurs would adapt with elephants now in their environment. evolution is always about adapting to the environment and competition. Ankylosaurus evolved armor for defense, Triceratops evolved horns for both defense and offense, and several theropods evolved teeth to cut deep into flesh making the target lose alot of blood. so, what if you dropped an elephant in the era of dinosaurs, then fast forwarded a few million years, what would the elephant look like after living in such an environment with large predators for so long? what would the theropod dinosaurs look like with this new animal to hunt?
That's a video I would love to see. what would the elephant's and dinosaur's evolutions be if they lived together for so long?
Wish there were more! Love your videos.
815th subscriber, we will watch your career with great interest
Subbing man, you’re doing amazing
Loving the videos please keep making them
Where get those edmonto facts did he confuse shant for edmonto
I think a triceratops elephant situation is like a hippo rhino I know some are extinct but the ones we knew before recent extinction was they would be able to surprisingly easily kill a hippo still hard but a majority but intimidation and a lack of major intelligence lead to most retreating even more often
I think that a mix of experience , skill, intelligence and knowledge is what would allow elephants to survive a time like the Cretaceous. Hell, if evolution favored them, they could reach the size of Palaeoloxodon, the largest elephant to have existed, rivaling some large dinosaurs in weight
We need a part 2 with the speculative evolution section!
You're forgetting one thing when it comes to the interactions between elephants and Tyrannosaurus (or most other Hell Creek megafauna): Speed. Elephants are much desceptively fast, much faster than a T. rex and faster than the other local animals with comparable size, so running away and avoiding the conflict is a very viable option for elephants to stay safe in Hell Creek
I didnt even notice your sub count, I figured you had lok 759k subs or more
I read somewhere that elephants can detect vibrations in the earth, this is how some individuals communicate, therefore having a poor eyesight would not be a problem, if they can feel the vibration through the ground.
Video suggestion, felines in the Mesozoic era. Felines would certainly survive in the Mesozoic Era, not only that, but they would completely dominate their niches, as small to medium-sized predators. Cats are one of the most sophisticated forms of predator that evolution has ever created. Small cats would be immediately successful, while large cats would have more difficulty, but animals like tigers could certainly adapt well. In addition to almost always being generalists, they are excessively faster than most Mesozoic animals, with few dinosaurs being as fast, they are excellent ambush predators, so even in a time with large forests without many open areas, most of them would feel at home. They are animals that usually hunt other animals even larger than them, so even with small sizes compared to medium and large theropods, not to mention megatheropods, they would still be able to stand out. They would be good predators and would not be such easy prey to capture.
Maybe donate $100.00 during his live stream and type this in as a super chat. Then he'll probably do it.
Wait, what species of Edmontosautus is this? That seems pretty big.
This is a great video. Would love to see a episode discussing if Komodo dragons could survive in the mesozoic.
Well that’s one way to mess up the fossil record.
I love your videos man
One thing: While their vision may be poor I really do think they wouldnt have an issue hearing a massive dinosaur walking towards them. The heavy footsteps would probably give it away.
Kinda like that scene in Jurassic World Dominion, i can see Elephants joining herds of Dinosaurs, their trumpeting can be a huge advantage to other herd animals, as it would be an effective alarm system to warn of potential predators.
Would the mammals today survive the Chicxulub asteroid impact today unlike the non avian dinosaurs?
I mean…they did. That’s kind of the whole point of why we’re here and dinosaurs are not.
@@xaphelionI think they mean the bigg mammals today (like whales or big predators)
@@xaphelion Wouldn't the mammals smaller than cats on land survive? And what about the species in the ocean? 🐬🐋
@@tomassmith1519 Bingo. Thank you. 👍🏼
You, my dear friend, have earned a Subscription and a like!
Thank you thank you
@@MadlyMesozoic Of course! You make very good media and content, i am almost excited for you to upload yet again. Please continue your gorgeous works!
The important thing is i believe elephants would have a lot more food and a lot larger herds as a result of it. Their intelligence, far above any reptile, will allow them to put a joint front against predators.
4:12 that's an awesome artwork, who drew that?
A computer
Cool vid
I'm not so sure the trumpeting is such a big advantage, it's pretty big in the modern area but it's also possible for tyrannosaurus adults to actually be able to pick up much of the speech elephants do for communicating over large distances, the groups would definitely put hunts out of commission but I feel the elephant resolve wouldn't be so high to such a large predator, especially if there are two or more of them. We just don't know but I felt it's fair to point out with such high speculation and faith more then theory in practice given to a sound and even ear flapping display.
It could definitely be useful, but how often.. for how long?
Where do you get your info from? Edmontosaurus wasn't "twice as heavy as a bull elephant". Estimates vary wildly (as per usual for extinct animals) but no source that I could find gave an estimate of over 9 tons. Heavier than an avg elephant for sure, but not twice as heavy as a bull. You'd have to be 14 tons for that.
That's nice to know! What about lemurs, tapirs, or rhinos?
You failed to talk about an Elephant’s infrasound capabilities. They can at ranges of up to 10km use infrasound to: communicate with each other, detect terrain, detect animals, detect food sources.
4:40 Small correction on that 'Spanish' there, it's "mano a mano" not "mono e mono", that's basically saying approximately "monkey and monkey" rather than "hand to hand" :p
Monkey And money it is then
I think the problem is that female elephants are on average half the size of a Triceratops or Torosaurus and not as well armed. Now Triceratops might not have been a herding animal like is commonly depicted but even then, every Chasmosaurine and Centrosaurine that were in about the same weight range as a female elephant all disappeared the same time T. rex shows up. I think that may be more than just a coincidence.
I also feel you are over stating just how effective the elephant’s high pitched noises would have been as a deterrent. Especially since Tyrannosaurs far smaller than Rex hunted animals such as Parasaurolophus, which could also make higher pitched noises. Even then Parasaurolophus are on average slightly larger than a Female Elephant. Plus if the southern Rex population is willing to throw down with an Alamosaurus. I doubt the Northern Rex’s that regularly deal with Triceratops would not be intimidated by a bunch of female Elephants yelling at them. This isn’t to say that Rex is a killing machine that butchers everything. Just that with Triceratops and Torosaurus both filling the same niche as Elephants, as a large horned animal, Ankylosaurus and Denversaurus are both low ground feeders that primarily are left alone by everything beside a desperate Rex, and Edmontosaurus being a large herding animal. I don’t know if there would necessarily be a niche for elephants to fill. Also all of the non-avian dinosaurs breed much faster than elephants do. So every time some dumb young male elephant in musk that picks a fight with a Triceratops or Torosaurus only to get severely injured. Hurts the elephant population far more than if the Ceratopsians loose that particular conflict.
I think Elephant would have a far easier time in the eastern US, where there are Hadrosaurs, Lambeosaurs, Saurolophines, Nodosaurs, and Leptoceratopsids. They could easily fulfill the same niche as the Centrosaurines. As a large animals that travel together in large herds that have sharp things on their face to defend themselves, and not much else. Now they would still be on the menu of any Appalachian Eutyrannosaur, but they would struggle far more hunting one than a T. rex would. For 1 T. rex can chomp right through bone, so I doubt even an elephants tough hide could protect it from a Rex’s and 2 Appalachian Tyrannosaurs, from what little sample data we do have (since we only know of animals on the east coast, leaving everything that lived in Eastern Canada and east of the Appalachian Mountains until Kansas mostly a mystery to us.) they were built far more like an Allosaur that the typical bone crunching Tyrannosaur, since they often hunted prey larger than themselves and for whatever reason Leptoceratopsians never grew to the same sizes as the more derived Centrosaurs and Chasmosaurs did. (As far as we know.) So generally they primarily hunted Ornithomimids and Hadrosaurs, with the occasional Nodosaur here and their if they wanted a face full of spikes.
(Also I am aware that Lambeosaurs and Saurolophines are hadrosaurs, I just don’t have a general group term for the Appalachian Hadrosaurus that doesn’t also cover those two more derived groups.)
Its super cool to appreciate animals we have now. Newfound speculative respect :D
Elephants can feel vibrations in the ground so even with rex padding it would still know where it is
I magine it would feel pretty surreal for an elephant encountering an Endmontosaurus for the first time and getting shoved out of the way just like how elephants typically shove everything out of the way in their natural environment. Elephants might be smart enough to be able to adjust their behavior, but it would still take time to adjust to no longer being the biggest, strongest animals around anymore.
Very well done video. 👍
Love me some nersy number shit. Thanks for making this kind of content dude
I think they'll be out competed. This isn't the food they usually eat, they breed slowly and much of the competition is larger.
Elephants could probably also use throwing as Intimidation we see them use it to scare off rhinos today
Also elephants can hear through their feet low frequency noises which allows them to communicate great distances if the Trex had that deep rumbling noise ive heard then it may be low enough for the elephant to hear
4:31 Any source I could find claims they weight roughly the same.I would still give Triceratops the edge anyway due to it's better head protection. But I don't think they would really fight anyway Elephants can eat from way hugher branches than Triceratops so thye would most likely avoid confrontation.
Elephants are really strong and the adults could survive for sure, but I don't know if they could properly raise young in the mesozoic. That long time to reach sexual maturity REALLY hurts, where you can be picked off by dromeosaurs, tyrannosaurs, or other predators that have a size advantage on the elephants. Reaching adulthood would be really tough.
I think maybe the biggest change would be their behavior, specifically the bulls. Instead of leaving the herd and being solitary or forming bachelor groups they would stay with their herd and help defend against predators. Elephants would probably be the smartest animals and could learn to defend themselves pretty quickly. They could fullfil a different niche compared to the other herbivores, eating leaves and flowers.
In the most kind way ever, your wrong on the triceratops vs elephant. Not only would a triceratops beat an elephant but it would beat it it with low difficulty. Triceratops also lived in herds so the elephant using numbers is unlikely too. The thing you got right would be the intimidation factor but even then an elephant would most likely take one good look at the triceratops and decide that the food is not worth the risk
Theres really not alot of evidence to support that Triceratops lived in herds like in movies. Theres been a few instances of one or two individuals being found together but nothing like other known herding dinosaurs. I really don't agree with you.
The other thing is, as lush as the Cretaceous was, it's entirely possible we might see little to no competition between large herbivores, who instead form super herds like what we see in parts of Africa today...purely for the sake of warding off the super-predators of the day.
Why the random discord vc noises at 2:10?
The lions are exiting the discord
Lol, that makes sense.
-No longer being the dominant herbavore
-Alamosaurs are far larger and have assess to the best leaves
-No abundance of grass instead replaced by hardy, fiberous, lignin abundant tough ferns, palms and cycads with more antinutrients
-Triceratops are larger and better armed
-Ankylosaurus are heavily armoured and equipped
-Edmontosaurs are larger and way faster
Adult male bush elephant can realistically run at 11mph, juveniles elephant are faster though
Kind of makes them the least problematic for the Rex to take down compared to the usual four large herbavoirs
If they move north and grass was widely available there then they can get bigger however getting smaller would be far faster than getting larger. An elephant will have a metabolic rate several folds higher than a cold blooded triceratops. In the north Albertasaurus will not nearly be as threatening as T-rex and Pachyrhinosaurus would be less of an issue than Triceratops which is likely more aggressive and bigger with bulls being upto 13 tonnes
Elephants need to be free from large predators that will exhert a tremendious r selection pressure that reduce their size, gestation length and breeding cycle. Elephant can be at the limit of K selection pressure for size considering they don't really have any potential predators once they are adult. The moment they go back to the cretacious dinosaurs that changes. Triceratops, edmontosaurus has dozens of eggs on a yearly basis, they could cope with the attrition of a predating Rex. A single female Triceratops could easily have over several hundreds eggs in it's lifetime as opposed to 2 or 4 calves that a female elephant would have. Elephant single death would be very slow to replace. Adult male elephants would likely need to swallow their pride and stay with the herd. Androgens especially the 5 alpha reduced androgens are very immunosuppressive and forces males to leave the herd to avoid diseases, but if they suppress androgens and increase prolactin when staying with the herd, they will sort of self domesticate like the indian elephants. We will probably see some trade off between better co-operation and rearing over size and aggression. If male adults stay their way a go solo, a Rex(s) with pick a elephant over Triceratops anyday. Elephant tusks tend to point down which is good at dealing with shorter mammal with low centre of gravity but utterly disadvantage when facing a rex, those tusk will not be pointing anywhere that can hurt rex at neutral neck position. Elephant will have to either curl their tusk upwards or have them point up through natural selection. They may also need better trap attachments to raise their necks, so I envisiom african bush elephant looking more bison like with hump, or just more like asian elephants/mammoth. Elephant skull are also relatively light due to large air cavity to save weight, they may evolve to be lighter to fence off tyrannosaurs with their tusks as a Rex is very agile for an animal of it's size. Or go heavier and develop more of a denser skull that can ram and trade away some of the lanky under muscled columnar limbs and be more stocky and built like a rhino, who could actually ram and gallop, more like to a mastodon.
Unlike the savannah elephants will be very vulnerable to getting ambushed by a T Rex when they sleep, rest or at night when they can't see. I could easily envision a pair of breeding Rexes, getting peeved off with a massive stench of egg theiving mammals to only find out that it's potential prey and taking it down. Sue and Scotty are like double the weight of a bull african elephant so it probably won't end well.
Some fair points, but some things here don't make sense.
-Alamosaurus has not been found in Hell Creek, hense why I did not mention it. Also, Elephants and Sauropods would not be competing with each other at all. An Elephant couldn't reach anywhere near the "feeding zone" of sauropods.
- Albertosaurus and T-Rex are separated by more than 4 million years, and did not coexist.
- Every animal sleeps, this wouldn't be a problem specific to Elephants.
- Yes, Elephant tusks are curved slightly downward, but still come to a forward point in most cases. They're maybe under a foot lower in height than triceratops horns. Low to the ground tusks are typically only seen in very old elephants or elephants who don't frequently use them.
- Elephants really only tend to eat grass in the dry season, even then it only makes up 40% of their diet, less than 10% in the wet season. I personally don't think grass would be a big part of their diet even if it was present in the Cretaceous. It would be mostly early fruits, leaves, shrubs and tree bark.
You must've mixed up the size of Edmontosaurus with Shantungosaurus, since Edmontosaurus didn't even get anywhere close to being "Twice the size of an elephant" 😂 Great vid though.
The African Elephant may just benefit from sharing territory with average-sized Maastrichtian Hadrosaurs like Kritosaurus, Charonosaurus and even Huallasaurus, since the sharp-eyed duckbills could be the lookout, thus allowing the Elephants to survive in the Cretaceous! :D
Sense of smell must be something worth mentioning in terms of defenses
I think elephants are also able to listen with their spongey feet.
So it could smell or hear anything too big near them possibly.