Mass Effect 3 - The Indoctrination Theory CleverNoob Documentary Reupload
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2015
- I remember watching this a while back and I was sad to find out that it has been deleted from youtube after the deletion of Clevernoob's channel, and since I can't find it anywhere else on the internet, I figured I'd upload a copy of it, since I do think this is a very well made video that should be put up for fans of the Mass Effect series to view and discuss with other fans. Enjoy.
I claim no ownership of anything related to this video. I did not make it, I take no credit with anything related to the creation of this video, this is purely a reupload. - เกม
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You know, we have actually seen green color used in Mass Effect before...on David Archer during the Overlord DLC. A human being melded with an A.I. and tortured every second of his existence.
Also, when you interact with the VI interface, Shepard's eyes start glowing green, in exactly the same fashion as the glowing green eyes that all characters acquire when you choose the synthesis ending.
wow, i never noticed that. i honestly never believed the indoctrination theory but honestly, this video makes so much sense.
I completely forgot about this 😅🤣
jrrthompson YOOOO great catch holy shit, that makes synthesis all the more depressing
Good catch
Marauder Shields is the final boss. Remember his sacrifice.
😂🤣😂🤣
RIP
The infamous shield marauder.
Many many years later with the Mass effect trilogy for ps5 on the horizon we salute you.... Marauder Shields, we will never forget.
We salute you sir Marauder Shields
It’s criminal that this incredible video got deleted and needed to be reuploaded. I hope the original creator feels appreciated.
Well clevernoobs screwed himself by deleting all his videos then reuploading it. It didn't get nearly as many views the second time
@@Grivian his channel got deleted by TH-cam wdym
@@Patrick-fw2ll His original videos got 100s of thousands of views. Suddenly all of the videos were gone. Eventually he reuploaded them (they got maybe 5k views each) and he explained that he thought being a youtuber would jeopardize his job that he just got. This was many years ago
@@Grivian guy is now some kind of self improvement guru or something
@@CuCbKu1 Julien Snow, he runs a podcast now for self help and stuff. pretty cool to still see him out there
UPDATED 12/10/2020:
Hi all! Julian here (aka CleverNoob).
If you're here because you can't find the original videos anymore, here's why:
I actually came back to TH-cam a few years ago and attempted to rebrand, doing analysis videos. During the rebranding process, I responded to some old messages from fans to tie up loose ends. Apparently this is against TH-cam's ToS, as they view doing so as a form of spam (?) due to the age of the messages. I was literally just answering their questions. I appealed but it was upheld, which ultimately seems like it was a blessing in disguise, because the new TH-cam culture isn't for me.
Since then, I've moved on to more academic pursuits. I'm releasing a podcast in 2021 called "The Crown Mindset", which is centered around self-improvement methods rooted in neuroscience and psychology. I'm also working toward a P.h.D., but you can bet your credits I'll be playing the remastered trilogy and what LOOKS like Mass Effect 4 possibly? All I know is that sure looked a lot like Liara in that trailer! Smells like the Indoctrination Theory to me. If you want to talk Mass Effect with me, search for me on Twitter; I love chatting with you all!
But thanks everyone for your support! I hope these videos will always bring back good memories for you, as they do for me. Thank you to Tyler for preserving these videos. Take care everybody!
God bless you sir, and good luck
I just watched another ME video with the creator reading a long ad in the middle of it. I don't think they actually care much about spam and advertisement
Thanks for making this video -- wishing you luck in your endeavors!
This theory is 100% true and Bioware knows it. They can't just backtrack twice in a row
Hey old buddy. Hope you get back to creating material.
I can't believe they did this to You...
Sheppard never left earth, and didn't get beamed up. The reaper-beam didn't hit him directly but just blew him away thus the rubble in the ending. Harbinger is indoctrinating him while he is still on earth. Meaning that if you pick destroy, the indoctrination fails and Sheppard wakes up in the rubble. That is why everything is different after he gets hit and looses consciousness, hence the dream. Harbinger really want to indoctrinate Sheppard and has been trying to do so throughout the series. Don't think anything Sheppard dreamed has even happened in reality. Lets get real here... Getting blown up, shoot and blood oozing from the wounds? No one can survive that much pain, not even Sheppard. Conclusion: Sheppard awakens with the battle over and the outcome unknown.
Ever since the first game I wanted them to indoctrinate the player. IT is the only explainable thing
And yet it's been 6 years and nothing. Instead we got Andromeda.
Thats even more far fetched Mr. Hetfield. That would make the whole of mass effect 3 pointless in the story.
@@Music_games_history not necessarily it only means that the game is unfinished. With shepard being indoctrinated at the end it means that you choices are leading to a victory. It is your choice to resist or not. So the ultimate plot is do you have the fortitude to see this through, you have gathered your forces and only with that final resistance do you see the light of day again.
@@kocashima Yes,but what about the reapers then?What will happen to them?
41:42 "I stand by belief that the Bioware writing staff is not foolish enough to make this kind of oversight, they have captivated a beautiful storyline that has captivated us for nearly five years. Why now would they begin to falter in the last 20 minutes of the game in so many different ways?"
This physically hurt me. I really wish this guy was right.
Faith and Goodwill can get the best of us sometimes brother. 😢😢
He was right
I wonder why would anyone give them so much credit
_"We weren't that smart."_ - Chris Hepler, writer of Mass Effect 3
Exactly. "Indoctrination theory" sounds like one of those things fans cook up in order to overcome the shortcoming of bad writing. They just don't want to admit that their writers royally screwed up, so they "cover for them" by coming up with a really clever, interesting, and thought provoking narrative that is wonderful, but just not what the writers had ever thought up. To me, this showcases the power of "networked intelligence", the more brains working on a problem (in this case, how to make a good, compelling ending to a story), the better and more sophisticated the output.
@@JeffNeelzebub very well said. I couldn't accept some writing decisions of this trilogy because almost every other aspect is very enjoyable, but I can totally understand how dedicated fans can overthink, discuss theories and possibilities and maybe even convince themselves that is the actual story because they dearly love the franchise.
@@crosselen9766 I don't know...I absolutely cannot stand the ID Theory (I hate most all fan theories anyway for movies, video games, etc.), but I actually had no problem with the ending of ME3. To me, it was never about the end, it was about the journey. Personally speaking, Destroy is the only option that makes sense, the others - the Reapers win.
Besides, Shepard couldn't be indoctrinated because taking control of the reapers was possible, and it was explicitly stated that that's what the Illusive Man wanted to do but he COULD NOT, because he WAS indoctrinated.
@@MattRowland I kinda feel the same to some degree. I like the IT theory and find it interesting but also not much better than the original ending (which is barely ok for me, I just really hate how they used TIM in ME3).
To me, this theory is just too much like finding something out of nothing. I've always asked myself that if this theory is true, then it is definitely TOO MUCH WORK just to go up to this point. And the way the whole franchise portrayed the Reapers, I definitely believe they can just do their things on their own WITHOUT putting a lot of extra steps on something like Indoctrinated Theory.
Tl/dr: I find this theory interesting and somewhat nicer than the original, but it doesn't convince me because it is not logical and it's too much work for too little (and totally unncessary) outcome.
Oh and on another note. I love this franchise and I like how dedicated the community is, but it's so ridiculous that not only many of them keep defending this theory but also ACT like this was intentional from Bioware - which they even admitted they fucked up ME to some degrees and they weren't even that smart to begin with.
Sigh...... I love this theory. It's so well thought out and seems to have supporting elements from the game. Maybe we are giving the devs too much credit, but if that's the case. Too bad.
i stopped thinking too much into and just accepted the theory. :D
Either way this series is still one of my favorite of all time.
I accept it, even if the devs denied it. Otherwise, it's a horrible, shitty ending, with a bunch of stuff that makes zero sense, even with the extra exposition in the DLCs.
The biggest reasons for me to accept Indoctrination Theory is that we are pretty much told outright by the Prothean VI that the Control option is an indoctrination trick, and the synthesis option is exactly what Saren was arguing in ME 1. For you to accept control and synthesis as anything other than indoctrination tricks, than you have to completely disregard huge chunks of the most significant parts of the lore.
@@belowroller Devs denied it because they already backtracked once with the extended ending DLC, they can't backtrack twice or the whiny people would get angry.
Liara: Wake up, Shepard. We have Reapers to destroy.
Shepard: Ah shit, here we go again.
*Roll Mass Effect 5 intro*
I don't care how cheap it would be, I would love if they just rebuilt Shepard's mangled corpse again and we could just get back to more reaper stuff. The reapers were the perfect villains, Shepard was the perfect protagonist. I just want more of that.
the best developer company works for the worst publisher company in the world
I wouldn't call them the best. Thanks to Anthem (which I guess was after your comment), a lot was exposed about how BioWare has been running their studios for years, and uh... yeah, no wonder they fucked up Andromeda and Anthem. EA may be a horrible publisher, but BioWare has shown they don't know how to run their studios without overworking their own people.
@@DrakeWurrum my comment has 4 years old :😄. i tottaly agree with you, bioware is not the same i thought it was then. And now its even worst. Anthem is a big piece of shit in gaming history, i played it when it was free to play and never came back. I played andromeda again this year, its not in the same level as the triology games, as a mass effect fan boy, andromeda should have never been called mass effect. But its not a terrible game as it is, a lot of things of mass effect universe and feeling.
When you made this comment 8+ years ago, you were absolutely right, EA was the worst publisher and BioWare was tbe best developer. However, quite crazy how a little under 10 years a difference makes: EA is no longer THE worst publisher (they're bad, but 2K has surpassed them) and BioWare is no longer the best developer (they're a rotting corpse that EA put puppet strings on). Very sad and all of this really started from the rushing of ME3 and the controversy of its awful ending. Hard to believe that was all 12 years ago, feels like it was just yesterday.
@@TheAnonymousIndividual i don't disagree 😅. dragon age is taking so long😂. mass effect whatever it will end up being called, might end up releasing first 😅. i know very little about that game. i faded out a bit of the gaming reality in these latest years. there are very few games that makes me want to waste my brain on a game more time than i would normally do in the past.
The creators have said this is a fun theory but that it's technically incorrect and was never intended. Which I guess is tantamount to them saying, "you guys did a great job nearly perfectly explaining how hard we failed in the final chapter." Honestly, I would have just given a wink and nod and never fully denied it if I were them because it really turns it into something clever.
@Robert Dunn Literally no one said that, it's pretty well known that ME3's ending was wet doo doo paper
The original ending is great. You either give up everything you stood for, submit and become one with the evil reapers, or destroy them, even if it means at the cost of everything.
I know this is a year old but they didn't quite say that. They said it wasn't intended, yes, but that the ending is totally up to interpretation and that there isn't a wrong answer. One of the devs even said "some of my playthroughs are indoctrination theory, some aren't"
@@MythicRanger2401 -And devs, producers etc are pretty known to lie and twist the truth as well. The movie The Thing ending is a good movie example where the director has changed his stance 4-5 times on what the ending means.
My point being that even IF they said that it was a fun but incorrect theory, that wouldn't stop them from saying it's cannon in Mass Effect 4.
I frankly don't understand that. If you choose either control or synthesis, Shepherd's eyes literally become the indoctrination ones. That single detail alone is the absolute purest piece of evidence of this theory's validity. If they say this wasn't the case, why even bother including that? They're just bullshitting. Too many pieces line up astonishingly well together for this theory to not be true.
Time to rewatch indoctrination theory in light of new Liara trailer!!!
Sad that this piece of fan fiction is hundred times better than the real ending.
@@giorgialadashvili4771 eh ive made my peace with it
I simply accepted that IT was the true ending and called it a day. Stories can end if you give up on the poorly written new material.
Data never died. Hicks, Newt and Ripley made it home safely. Judgement Day was averted. And Han Solo and Leia lived happily ever after while building the New Republic.
All they need to do is have liara ask shep what happened after they’re lazarus’d. Then we can fill in whatever option we chose in 3.. synthesis will be hard to explain though.
If mass effect 4 is to continue from 3rd game ending, the devs have to pick a canon.
It would be far too difficult to continue the franchise without picking a canon ending.
R, G, B and Denial implications are way too diffent to converge into the same story again. The only way I can think of is to trivialize the endings by giving it only a small impact to everyday life.
Shepard was the catalyst not the star child. It's the reason the reapers where so interested in him and tried to capture him alive 3 different times. He was the catalyst for every other major event in the series, without him none of what happened throughout the 3 games would have happened. Saren wouldn't have been stopped, the collectors wouldn't have been stopped, the illusive man wouldn't have been stopped. It's why the protheans couldn't understand the catalyst, they controlled every other species through force of war not because they had a single person capable of changing the course of galactic history.
Your moms the catalyst
For the record, I support this theory, I just noticed a few things that don't make sense to me.
@32:53 You forget that 1) Mass Effect 1 had no reloading. And 2) you aren't reloading, you are just swapping heatsinks. The guns in Mass Effect do use physical projectiles, but they are slivers shaved off a block of metal in the gun, so you will need to reload eventually, but not for thousands upon thousands of shots. Additionally, in ME1, you could upgrade a gun to effectively never overheat. We don't know 100% for sure if the pistol Shepherd is using in this last sequence is his or not. He could have picked one up that has really good cooling, thus no need to ever swap heatsinks. Its a stretch, but entirely possible. The "ammo" thing just became a mechanic in ME2 because they didn't like the heat mechanic anymore from ME1.
Additionally, some of the theories can also be explained by pure game mechanics/flaws. Just as you mention with the floating theory. Additionally, the damaged armor bit can be explained because the developers didn't want to have to make damaged versions of every armor. It was simply easier to make one damaged armor model and run with it for that sequence. Also, you incorrectly stated that nowhere else in the series are models forcabbly swapped, which isn't true. At least in ME1, basically all of the cutscenes, Shepherds weapon is always swapped to the default Avenger rifle. It is never the weapon you actually have equipped.
All the theories were crushed by the DLC
@@PR-xm5zc Which? The extended cut?
P R no, they didn't.
This theory is mostly nothing, its interesting but the dude that made it took every reused asset and oversight by the devs as evidence which is just really dum
As far as the armor thing goes, that was my immediate thought as I had green armor. Also, I used SMGs and Pistols exclusively, never even equipped a rifle, and nearly every cutscene had me with a assault rifle. Shep having different armor isn't a great supporting piece of evidence
Another clue that supports the indoctrination theory is the tone of voice that the Reapers use when they interact with Shepard: When Shepard talks to Sovereign, and later Harbinger in ME1 and ME2, their tone is one of sadistic glee, of triumphant arrogance, a feeling of absolute (almost fascistic) superiority. However, in the end, when Shepard talks to the Star Child, his tone is completely different. Suddenly, the Reapers seem almost harmless, they're doing organics a favor, it's not personal for them.
Even before I heard of the indoctrination theory, I found that contrast in attitude jarring. If the Reapers are indeed merely galactic lawnmowers curating organic life in the galaxy, as the Star Child claims, why would they gloat and insult and belittle? Wouldn't they have the same tone of voice as their master, Star Child?
No. Their true nature is that in ME1, when Sovereign tells Shepard that for the Reapers, organics are nothing. It makes much more sense that the conciliatory tone in the last segment is just a last, desperate attempt to get Shepard to accept indoctrination and view the Reapers as reasonable.
Also, if you shoot the kid his voice suddenly changes to the voice of a reaper, and its tone changes completely. The whole appearing as a child is literally a ploy to try and get Shepard to do what it wants.
I know IT got shut down by the devs but there's absolutely supposed to be a greater meaning to this ending. How does Shepard survive Harbinger's beam? It instantly vapourized everyone else, and destroyed vehicles on contact. Harbinger knows exactly who Shepard is, as do all the reapers. Why would it pass up on the chance to kill them? Why doesn't it shoot the Normandy which takes off right infront of it? Why does it suddenly leave for no reason when protecting the beam is all the reapers need to do to win?
That's before we get to the citadel, where the fuck did Anderson come from? Why would the beam bring people out in different places? Seems counter productive if you want to harvest people? Why is Shepard shown bleeding from the same place Anderson was shot in? How is Shepard still alive at all, he literally looks dead on the ground after failing to respond to Hackett, then the 'child' mysteriously says "wake", almost like a command, and Shepard is suddenly fine again?
The child clearly wants you to pick Synthesis, presenting it as the perfect solution and hinting that you'll die if you choose destroy. Yet that's the only ending where Shepard can live, and Shepard clearly would not have survived that blast on the Citadel, the whole Crucible looks like it blew up. The rubble looks exactly like Earth rubble.
This is the best argument and it isn't even in the video lmao
His name was Marauder Shields
It's a shame Bioware doubled down with their ending instead of trying to reconcile it with the fans but I get the feeling that this was not up to them and EA screwed them over.
when your ego is too damn fragile to admit you couldn't write as well as fans could
It certainly wouldn't be the first time EAs done that.
This genuinely would have been the greatest ending to a story. Ever. Bioware missed an open goal and it is us, the fans, that suffer.
No it wouldn't have, it would be stupid and unsatisfying. Probably the only thing worse than what we got.
@@bobmike8484 Nonsense.
@@joeRepublic85 ngl boss, I would be kinda pissed if I spent 3 games to have this ending. I love this theory, but I’d be shook
@@joeRepublic85 Tbh, wouldn't make any sense since now there making ME4 so that means they HAVE to make an ending canon.
It would have been great if the game continued, but yeah I actually prefer the unsatisfying endings we got to a game lacking one. It'd be the ultimate blueball
Here's another one I thought of just now after 6 years that never got mentioned in any of the vids. Shepard and Anderson's radios still work and they talk to each other on them. How does no one else hear them? Wouldn't the group retreating hear their conversation and realize they are both still alive? I mean we hear the retreat call so it's on the same frequency. And it can't be a distance thing because Hackett calls in.
@lonely shadow
This was from Chris Hepler, who was essentially ME3's loremaster, during this past week:
“The Indoctrination Theory is a really interesting theory, but it's entirely created by the fans. While we made some of the ending a little trippy because Shepard is a breath away from dying and it's entirely possible there's some subconscious power to the kid's words, we never had the sort of meetings you'd need to have to properly seed it through the game. We weren't that smart. By all means, make mods and write fanfic about it, and enjoy whatever floats your boat, because it's a cool way to interpret the game. But it wasn't our intention. We didn't write that.”
Basically, the lead writer; lead gameplay designer; and executive producer liked the super-advanced science magic ending. The project of the game's development had to move so fast, due to the limited production time, that Chris wasn't really able to put up a counter-argument ending. This likely explains other parts of the game that are lacking: they had no time.
Source: www.thegamer.com/mass-effect-3-ending-writer-idea/
@lonely shadow
...I don't even know how to reply to this. The game came out close to ten years ago. BioWare failed. Specifically, the lead writer, lead gameplay designer, and an executive producer. I take the Indoctrination Theory as the ending too, because the real ending sucks. But that doesn't change the fact that it is the real ending. I'm sorry, but I don't think there's some grand scheme. They were too short for time to make anything better, which you can even see in other parts of the game.
BioWare hasn't only just recently dismissed the theory either. It was dismissed back in 2012 when it was first created, and numerous times since. They gain nothing from the ending being as terrible as it was. It's literally the general consensus that the game is pretty great, except for the last 15 minutes. So, if they have the choice between saying the theory is true, and subsequently being seen as one of the greatest twists in gaming, or saying that the theory isn't true and the ending just sucks, which do you think a company that wants customer retention would choose? They had to set the next game in a different galaxy, just because the ending screwed up any event past that point so much. You could never account for the options.
It's better that they've admitted their mistake, because admitting that a mistake has been made is the first step to making up for it. They can of course turn around in a few years and change their stance. But, I believe at the moment, their official stance is that it is not canon. Whether that remains to be the case going into Mass Effect 5, we'll have to see.
Honestly, I just say to enjoy ME3 however you want. Some go with the Indoc Theory, such as myself, while others go with a modded ending. I don't doubt that this was all due to poor writing and time constraints though.
@lonely shadow
You seem to be under the impression that I think the ending is fine and logical... I really don't. It's terrible, and the Indoctrination Theory is the only way to save it. But I'm not going to kid myself and say that it was BioWare's master plan. Instead, the Theory is only possible due to the strength of the writing throughout the rest of the trilogy and the universe as a whole. The love I have for the universe and the characters is why I come back to play it time and time again, not because of how the story ends. They can hold up despite the ending, which is a testament to how great the are. It's the writing in these other parts that gives credence to the evidence supporting the Theory, not anything in the ending itself. The universe they established does the heavy lifting for them because it was that detailed.
Look at Kai Leng. You want to tell me that the people that wrote him were clever enough to intentionally have all of the hints and evidence in support of the Theory spread throughout the trilogy? A trilogy that clearly wasn't written as a cohesive whole? A trilogy with games that went through re-writes? The universe and the lore did the heavy lifting, and were thorough enough that the Theory could be established and strongly supported.
You may say that because the universe is so well written that it doesn't make sense for them to suddenly drop the ball. That doesn't account for the fact the development time was shorter than it should have been. With the time it deserved, Mass Effect 3 could have been perfect across the board. Unfortunately, it wasn't given such time, and corners had to be cut. It doesn't mean that the talent just suddenly left.
@lonely shadow
I've literally said a couple of times now that I take the Theory as my headcanon ending... I have done since 2012. You don't have to explain it to me or convince me of it.
@@DigitalVanquish he’s not listening
theres a 4th ending option: shoot the star child. His voice changes to harbingers and he roars "so be it!" and you get a game over
no its a legit ending. unskippable cutscene and then roll credits, and THEN you have to load to marauder shield go up and do the Anderson/Illusive Man scene all over again, unskippable ofc. It may be the only good ending because the indoctrination ends right there. Harbinger says the cycle will continue but even if shep goes for destroy option outside of himself the cycle goes on anyway
You can get this ending by refuse the choose so technicly there are 4.5 endings
That's from the update, that wasn't there originally.
If they’re smart, ME5 will retroactively confirm this. Even though they originally denied the IT, it and Destroy/Shepard Lives are the only way forward for the series.
ME4 u mean?
@@rkraiem100been confirmed as ME5 I think
Nahh
I'm not usually on board with videogame fan theories, but this is absolutely legit.
It actually really isn't. It uses poor logic incessantly, obviously goes against the intentions of the devs, would be very stupid even if true, and the devs already denied it.
@@bobmike8484 you conveniently forgot to mention the fact that the devs admitted that this theory was better than what they came up with
@@AlphaJayCharlie That literally means nothing, being better or not it's not the story they created, ergo theory irrelevant.
@@sniffyjoe4229 And that's also wrong. Tell me.? which ending will be canon in ME4 now? lol
@@sniffyjoe4229 And fans like you, who accept mediocrity, are exactly why games like andromeda and the avengers exist lol. You are their demographic
Even if you disagree with the Indoctrination Theory, this guy put a lot of work into these videos
I like the fact it would have been plausible and would have been a great narrative for the series. Ignoring whether the devs intended this or not.
Did you just assume their gender?;
I'm totally onboard with this theory.
Like evolution, it is called a theorie, but in fact, it's not. IT has been proven on too many occasions, incl. this vid.
Thank you for re-uploading these. Since the teaser dropped, this is all I can think about
You need a life bro
Damn I just played the trilogy for the first time, and I honestly thought the synthesis option is the best course for the future of the galaxy. Now I feel conflicted watching this, truly a missed opportunity for the developers to say "Yup, this is true." That statement alone would've made this flawless masterpiece. Sigh
When I played this years ago, I picked Synthesis too, thinking it was the most peaceful option. Now that I'm older and so much time has passed, I'm starting to think otherwise.
The citadel control panel thing is moot since the citadel map literally changes in every game, you don't even go to the actual citadel tower after ME1
Ye I miss the Citadel tower, that would have been awsome in ME3.
I like this theory. It fits really well, explains a lot of the contrivances and makes something that was the result of bad writing into something truly amazing. Bioware may not have been smart enough to intend it, but they would be downright insane not to make the indoctrination theory at least somewhat canon for ME4. Better to try to make sense out of what happened in hindsight than to proceed with whatever the hell they were going for in the first place.
To be honest though, in Mass Effect get a Spectre Weapon with two Frictionless Materials X or better and you do actually have infinite ammo.
You technically never reload in ME. The magazines have thousands of smaller-than-sand-sized pellets that are then accelerated to a high velocity. You just prevent the gun from over-heating by letting it cool manually, or replacing the thermal clip. Frictionless Materials X just means your gun doesn't build up much heat as it fires.
Mechanically, yes. Within context, no. In ME3, you should have to change the thermal clip of the pistol, based on its model.
@@DigitalVanquish Fucking hated how they introduced ammo in 2. And no, you shouldn't have to change a pistol's thermal clip, they are described as being universal. Every weapon should have and use the same pool of ammo. It's a shame they got rid of the infinite ammo of the first Mass Effect.
@@youtubecommenter2527
Yeeaah, that was a typo. I didn't notice it until now. But given the previous sentence, everyone else seemed to deduce that 'should' was meant to be 'shouldn't'. Thanks for pointing it out though.
@@DigitalVanquish Technically nothing really changes, the thermal clips are filled with detachable heat sinks that are ejected once they've absorbed the maximum amount of heat. After the miniature heat sinks have been used up, the thermal clip is ejected and a new one is loaded into the weapon and it looks so similar you never even notice it. The weapon as always fires small shavings from an internal ammo block of certain metals and made bigger when fired using mass effect fields. It's also wrapped in an electrical charge which then explodes on impact making the rounds more dangerous. Thermal clips and detachable heat sinks were used by some mercenaries due to the fact it lets you modify the gun more easily, like having a gun fire faster and more accurate but with less damage or fire with heavy damage but less accuracy, or maybe a semi that fires one round at a time but very accurate and with more damage like the mattock.
56:45 so? as soon as your neurons stop firing *you'll* stop functioning too. Do *you* have a soul?
literally my thoughts
yes, humans have a soul, but it's okay that you're too closed minded to understand that just because you can't touch something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. but have fun living in your bubble
@@Bjorick I do believe that humans have a soul; my point was that just because the geth are made of metal doesn't mean they don't either
@@Bjorick I'd rather not take advice from a guy that believes wizards are real
@@Bjorick youre accusing someone of living in a bubble, when 1. He was just asking a question, 2. He agrees with you anyway, and 3. You just respond with your own bubble that humans definitely have souls, with no argument or oroof supporting that claim.
Such a shame. Turns out it WAS bad writing after all. :(
I smelt the shit at release brother, as soon as i saw this ending for the first time. They really werent that smart after all.
@@JoaoVictor-rg5ixdude the ending is good just because your upset there is no perfect ending as it should be or everything is not perfectly and clearly explained about the ending, rpg is about imagination imagine how the world would change that is the point it is a open ending these choices have been hinted at since ME1 and ME 2 destroy the reapers and synthetics was a important idea and part of 1, Saren even talked about synthesis a perfection of life allowing the emotions and beauty of organics but attributes like self modifications and intelligence of synthetics, and synthetics getting the emotions of organics, control the entire idea of the illusive man trying to control everything
@@davidos8760 bro. Nobody has to pay 60$ and plus for dlc to have to imagine anything. Chill the fuck out.
@@davidos8760 We're not talking about an avan garde piece of literally fiction here, both ME1 and ME2 had solid and satisfying endings. ME3 broke the norm. And it is no secret that the game was rushed and a lot of resources was burned developing the game's undercooked multiplayer mode, which had micro transactions at the time.
Like even if you think that this open ending is good, it's so clear that it was never going to please the fans of the first two games, who are supposedly the target audience for this product. They're the people who pre-ordered ME3 in droves, the ones who actually played it on release week. It's the cash they spent on ME1 and ME2 that prompted the development of ME3.
Also keep in mind that if you played the game months after release, you likely didn't get the original ending. That slide show at the end, the extra dialog with the crucible, the choice to shoot the kid, all of that was added *after* the game released as a response to fan backlash. The original ending was even more barren than the current version, you just got to pull a lever and watch three versions of the exact same cutscene. With only the colors swapped.
This isn't some indie darling developed by one guy in their basement. Mass Effect is a billion dollar franchise. Everyone who paid full price for this game has a right to be pissed.
Love watch this video again and again. Great theory except you can't explain what happens after Shepard "wakes up". The real explanation is Bioware rushed the ending and Shepard has plot armor...However I do believe the Anderson/Illusive Man segment is a hallucination.
KrazyK785 None of it is a hallucination. Have you played the Leviathan DLC? Not just the Extended Cut DLC? The Leviathans, an ancient race who look like organic Reapers (Actually it is the Reapers who look like them, they existed MUCH longer than the Reapers have), have dominated and controlled all sentient life many eons ago, but because their thralls created sentient machines that rebelled against them, they lost control of their slaves and were forced to find ways to solve the problem of resolving the conflict between organics and synthetics. My point is, the Catalyst, Reapers and Leviathans are not to be trusted, the Leviathans know what the Crucible can do, but they won't tell Shepard that, and the Catalyst neglects to tell you the name of his creator's race, and their past deeds, he gives you the impression that his creators are galactic peacekeepers or peacemakers if you haven't played the Leviathan DLC and or don't know the truth about them.
The true goal of the Reapers is to put all organic and synthetic life through a "Life Or Death" test, a trial, to manipulate them to use the Crucible because when your life is on the line, what are you willing to do to ensure your survival? Sacrifice your freedoms, or fight to live another day while preserving your freedoms at any cost? The Catalyst and Reapers expect the lives they attack to give up their freedoms for "order" and "security", they want all life to give up their freedoms and become tools for the Leviathans by using those who are indoctrinated, like Saren and Illusive Man to convince you that surrendering to your enemy is preferable to death, or if you don't trust the Catalyst's ideal solution, controlling the Reapers is better than destroying them, the Reapers don't want to be destroyed, and they used Illusive Man to try to dissuade Shepard from thinking about doing this, because if the Reapers die, then there's no way the Catalyst will be able to continue his work in finding the ideal solution for his creators.
Therefore the Anderson/Illusive Man segment is not a hallucination, it is the Catalyst and Reaper's final attempts to convince Shepard that controlling the Reapers is the best solution to choose, and when Shepard meets the Catalyst, he appears in the form of the boy Shepard saw die to psychologically remind Shepard that his/her goal is to save the lives he is fighting for, not to ensure the death of the Reapers for the greater good. They are scared, they perceive Shepard's strong will as a threat.
Shepard experiences nightmares, yes, but Shepard is no knight in shining armor, he/she has mental and emotional weaknesses like any average human, and to beat the Reapers, don't give in to doubt and fear of destroying them, stay strong, destroy the Reapers, and secure the freedom of all sentient life in the galaxy even if you have to destroy the Geth in the process. This is what it means to be an N7 ranked Alliance marine, having the courage to make difficult choices when others won't.
***** How amusing.
@@LightStreak567 well now we know it just was a rushed game with bad writing
@@jd2792 You still don't see the bigger picture. The game's "bad writing" hints that even though the story of the first three Mass Effect games are done, there is still room for the possibility that at some point in the future of the Mass Effect series, we will have to deal with the Leviathans, liberating the Milky Way from their control. Think about it. 600 years going into Andromeda, that's plenty of time for the Leviathans to gain a dominating foothold in the Milky Way galaxy while we are absent in Andromeda dealing with the Kett. Before you say forget the Kett, deal with the Leviathans first, one step at a time, bro.
@@LightStreak567 Everyone that says "bad writing" are soft ass people that got way too attached to the geth and didn't want shepard to die hurr durr.
Love it. But, if you've ever been blinded by sudden intense light, you'd know that it IS lingering white. And if you've been near a significant enough explosion you can't hear shit.
That, and you can white out, sorta the opposite of a blackout, after receiving CTE from a concussion. That's why things are blurry. That's why shep can't see far, or think straight.
Also, Bioware completely changed the final room/level, *weeks* before release. A lot of this hinges on tiny details that would probably have had more sense in the original environment.
Too much of this is based on "This extremely sketchy connection means *this.*" Like Shep's armor. How can they say that it makes no sense that the armor changes...when in *every cutscene,* Shep is holding an M3 Predator or an M8 Avenger? Its a QTE.
This is way too overanalyzed.
The burnt armor Shep gets after he gets hit by the lazer is a totally unique model, for them to keep the custom armor they'd need to remodel and re texture very single custom piece. I have no idea why he harped on about that so much, it is by FAR his worst point.
Right? My first thought was just that the armor got blown away and it was his clothes underneath. Off that was just cause I couldn’t see it very well
Yeah, and he kept confusing laziness with crunch. The devs left the studio for a reason.
This also fails to reconcile why the magic M8 avenger keeps popping in to Shepards hands throughout cutscenes in all three games, instead of his equipped weapon. Same problem.
For sure, I was thinking that myself. It was dev laziness in not wanting to create a new model for every single piece combo potential, nothing more.
@@Oxideist It's most likely not because of developer laziness. Some corners always have to be cut to meet deadlines. If you're going to blame anyone, blame EA.
There is no nice way of saying it. BioWare SERIOUSLY over estimated the intelligence of their target audience. It is super clearly indoctrination especially after extended cut. And SPOILER ALERT: the purpose of making the ending in this way was for YOU the player to imagine or write the "actual ending" in your own way. This turned out bad because imagination is not in most gamers' repertoires. Everything needs to be thoroughly explained and neatly put on a plate otherwise its "bad writing".
Everything u said is 100% true
I will always be convinced this is the truth. It fits so well with the lore.
With the teaser for the next Mass Effect game, we know the Destroy Ending is canon and that Shepard survived.
So there's still hope.
I believe in the indoctrination theory and always will
I know the writers did not intend for it to be seen this way, believe me I know they weren’t that smart, the story shows that
But lore wise, canon wise, their is proof of indoctrination or the capability of it to be real.
The fact their are two endings that favor the reapers, three if you include the passive aggressive DLC, and one where you destroy them, and no one sees anything wrong with this is insane
Through the entire series, up to the Star child even, we have been told time and time again you cannot bargain with a reaper, you cannot make a deal, you cannot achieve peace, but all of a sudden you can?
Mass Effect 4 better take advantage of this, or they’re going to be in a creative shit storm
How are they going to explain space travel? Just make up that you can repair a mass relay in a century? What about everyone stranded on earth? They’re just going to twiddle their thumbs and not starve to death, the Krogans won’t immediately revert back to warlords and try and take over earth?
I know the writers were not that smart, but they would be if they chose to use this. It would be a much easier time making 4 than the horrible state the universe is in after mass effect 3
Also this helps with the three endings never happening, cause you’ll have to make a very different game three times over if you want to make all of them canon, because if you don’t than you still negate the ending of mass effect 3 by just having one of them canon, meaning the entire game was pointless
The “fake control panel” argument is confusing because the reapers would know how the citadel control tower looks like
Thanks for re-uploading these!
After watching this I can’t help but agree with the indoctrination theory. Never did at first but the evidence is compelling. Nice work
Thanks for reuploading this I cant find it anywhere else on youtube, you even have all three videos, i don't understand why this only has 43 views
Joshua Boyd Well it is only less than a week old reupload I guess
I believe this theory wholeheartedly. It makes too much damn sense to be ignored and personally, it adds a mindblowing gutpunch to the trilogy once you start piecing it together. Don't care in the slightest whether it's canon or not. It's my fanon and only enriches the masterpiece that is this trilogy. I mean look at me, seven years later I'm on here, watching a video about it and being all nostalgic...
The feeling is mutual, trust me, by the way, I honestly thought about Shepard when he charged in front of Harbinger that it's a very bad idea, it didn't make any sense as on Tuchanka they at least had cover and were aided by turian ships. But to directly run in front of Harbinger's beams is not possible, unless Shepard had a dying wish. Moreover the whole game feels odd, the dialogue and plot feel weird and contradictory. This cannot be explained unless Shepard's indoctrination started much sooner, my guess is his exposure started in Mass Effect 2, the Lazarus Project also is a bit iffy to believe Cerberus has rebuild Shepard's body with current cybernetic technology. His skeleton and organs were so fucked up that they needed to employ some unorthodox methods to revive him, but this wouldn't surprise me as Cerberus is known to conduct weird experiments. It's most probable Shepard's reconstruction was made with Reaper implant technology, especially since EDI was also known to be constructed using Reaper upgrades. Now I know Bioware never confirmed this theory but there is a possibility they just don't want to spoil anything about upcoming releases. Because if they confirm it then the continuation wouldn't be as shocking, Bioware is known for this in their past releases. This means ME 3 is worth keeping, they even said to the fans to keep their saves intact.
Agree 1000% and have said the same thing since the first time I saw this video way back then. Even if Bioware claims it's not true, I can believe what I want, and I believe this ending demolishes anything they say is true.
Another thing to consider (puts on tinfoil hat): Maybe this IS canon, but Bioware just can't (or won't) admit it, because if they do, it literally ruins the game for anyone who hasn't played it. If you know you're being indoctrinated from the beginning, it literally sucks the entire life out of the game. The DLC to "fix" the ending was put out to placate those who just won't believe it, and whined to much, whereas us "enlightened ones" can rest easy knowing that this game was, in fact, an absolute masterpiece, and has the greatest, most mind blowing story/ending ever penned in a video game.
@@burnthepast316 They say it's not true only because they can't back track twice. I was indoctrinated (picked green 1st time) and was BLOWN AWAY after I found this theory! The ending was AMAZING indoctrinating the actual real life player along with shepard but people are too salty and can't deal with that idea.
@@Grim67894 Your theory is false,big yikes
Aldo Raine “They say it’s not true because they can’t backtrack twice!” No. They say it’s not true because it’s not true. It’s a great theory but at the end of the day Word of God is Word of God. If this was their intention they could’ve said so as people got into the theory. It would’ve been simple. Saying “Yeah you’re right” is easy. Saying “No, you’re wrong this is what we intended” is hard. Admitting to a bad ending is way harder than just accepting the easy way out.
Got through the whole video(in a few sittings during the day) and I've got to say, this was great. As someone who has played through all three three times and on the fourth with the legendary edition, this stuff gives a whole new perspective. I appreciate your effort good sir.
You had me with the warning sings behind the child. That is some subtle and genius cinematography there.
Its really sad that all his evidence is just developer rush and reusing assets
True or not I still love to return and rewatch this cuz its such a cool thing to think about. Even all these years later.
agreed i do the same
ZephyrFluous Yep
@@cubebuilder_ yeah, this would be so incredible of an ending
still true
you forgot something (I think). judging by the altitude of the citadel, and the size of the UK, Shepard COULD NOT land in the same spot, or the same area, the same city, and VERY unlikely, the same country. he should have touched down either in Europe, Africa, or the Atlantic, as long as he survived burning up in re-entry of course. conclusion? Shepard woke up in that same spot, because he NEVER LEFT. he was under that rubble the whole time.
a very good point indeed
@@SeleneAmara 6 years late but I still stand by my point. With Andromeda being released and the prospects of another game, we're not where I thought we would be when I made that comment. I thought Mass effect was done, dusted. I have two theories in my head, one being that Shepard never got to the citadel and the whole thing failed. It will be a resistance style game that will help start on a clean slate, and also remove the controversial ending from canon. Although I hope this won't happen because It would tread familiar ground.
The other theory, being that everything that happened did actually happen, and the existence of the legendary edition means we will get the traditional save transfer from 3 to 4 that will carry over our choices.
I don't know how they will handle Shepard, but Liara in that audio teaser seems to be suspicious or taken back by something humans have done. It could be something like humanity adapting reaper tech, or fixing/building the first mass effect relay to start reconnecting the galaxy death stranding-style. Or hear my out, Liara as an asari can live 1,000 years. By the time of Andromeda 600 years in the future, Liara would still be alive and a matriarch. It's possible that humanity could have created some kind of link to Andromeda. We know quantum stuff is heavily used in mass effect like seamless instant zero-latency quantum communication, which should also be possible at any distance anywhere in the universe. It may be possible to communicate with Andromeda, or perhaps even physically transport yourself in an Instant. Travel that would take centuries can take days or hours with mass relays, so creating some kind of link to Andromeda would drastically reduce travel time from 600 years to probably 6 weeks or something like that. As we know, the quarian ark was delayed and left during the initial reaper invasion so they would deliver news of the invasion to the initiative.
Or, if all of that is far fetched, I toyed with a "demolition man" scenario where the alliance or council froze Shepard and healed him in stasis. He's saved the galaxy a bunch of times, so It would be cool and messed up if someone froze him to preserve him, only waking him when the next galaxy-ending threat emerged. He's turned from a simple man that accidentally touched a prothean beacon, to a "fix all our problems" man of myth and legend, used by the powers that be to make all of their woes disappear like magic. I've seen a lot of people assume that ME4 would also take place 600 years in the future, and the only way it would make sense is if Shepard was preserved for that amount of time.
@@rasplez9889Let’s not forget the teaser were we see the wreckage of the mass relays, the dead reaper, and Liara actively searching for Shepard.
This means that the Destroy Ending was the canonical ending and Shepard survived.
I was just trying to get to the channel to watch the series again only to find out it does not have any stuff anymore. Kind of makes me a little sad; thanks for providing this reupload.
I can't believe that no one mentions how at the very end, when conversing with the "Catalyst", Shepard is in freakin space, the Citadel's exterior. Don't you find that weird?
Citadel always used gass layering and mass effect field to create gravity and to form bubble to hold all the air in. So they could have exterior space. It's in the codex.The whole wards arms use that technology, and look at all docking/departing scenes for normandy in ME1 you will notice when the ship entering the field.
Not really cause if you read the codex for the citadel in me1 it says they use mass effect fields to keep air in. Watch when the Normandy comes in from the outside and docks. Theres a barrier with a guy standing there with nothing covering his face. Which means that field keeps the oxygen in and stuff can enter said field and leave it without an issue yet it keeps oxygen in when it's hit by anything from the outside by going around whatever it is. In this case it goes around the Normandy
@@darknesswave100 So where is this guy
If someone finds this comment, after playing this wonderful trilogy for the first time:
Isn't this a wonderful antidote to the disappointing bluntness you, maybe, felt when you got to the end?
I love this theory♥️
I so hope to see it get adopted in ME4.
It deserves it.
I really didn't see what people keep complaining about. The extended cut provided a more than sufficient ending in my eyes. Idk what people want
They probably already started working on ME4 and had other plans.
Thats why they made the "We weren't that smart" post.
But the normal ending is perfect. This is just grasping at straws.
The normal ending is still riddled with plot holes confusion and unanswered questions. If you honestly think that its a good ending to the game then your taking a sideshow/color altering consolation prize ending for a trilogy that people spent 100's of hours enjoying. You can be happy all you want, its still objectively horrible and if you're actually role-playing the game the only real option is destroy because no way in hell would/could anybodys shepard be so weak minded as to believe a God child AI thats already admitted to having flawed thinking at face value
I really like this theory (over the original ending anyway) and I wouldn't be upset if Bioware rolled with it
Thank you so much, Tyler, for reuploading these!
So if the final decision never happens and it's all in Shepard's mind, nothing changes in the end. Even if you chose Destroy, the Reapers don't get destroyed because you were never given that choice in the first place and Shepard lives. What's the point then?
The point is that shepard was out of ao many the first person to withstand the reapers. Which should make the player believe that there is still hope for future civilizations to end the cycle, they just have to be better then shepard.
And it gives people surviving this tradegy faith to one day unite the whole galaxy and end it once and for all, with their powers combined.
Well had they gone with Indoc theory the logical explanation is that the "extended cut" DLC would have been if you chose destroy you actually wake up from being shot by Harbinger, then go up to the Citadel and open it, thus allowing the crucible to dock and fire, killing the reapers.
The crucible only has one mode, kill reapers. That's all the end should have been. Seriously, I mean think about it. Who was building the crucible going "hey should we design this thing to have two additional firing modes just in case it suddenly becomes plausible that we can control the reapers EVEN THOUGH THATS THE WORST IDEA EVER AND ALWAYS A SIGN OF INDOCTRINATION???"
@@Oxideist ... incomplete indoctrination?
I freaking loved this theory back when i was an avid ME fan, but when bioware said that this isn't part of the story and experiencing the ending multiple times, along with the extended ending, i was just disappointed they decided to end their game on such a flaccid note.
@Beese Churger They did bud unfortunately
Bioware never said something like that. It was claimed a lot by toxic haters (bwaaha, me sHeparD invINciBle, NoW iS reaPerGoD, beauTifuL), but there was never a source. Plus, on the old bioware forums, several officials stated that something might be off at the endings. So please, stop spreading fake news ;-).
@@SpliffieBee a fanboy of the IT insulting other people with Toxic haters. Oh, the Irony.
oh, by the way www.thegamer.com/mass-effect-ending-indoctrination-theory-shepard-canon/
These documentaries are brilliant. But after watching them for close to 48 hours (Playing in the background for 3 days straight) They can be condensed into a few lines: 1: You have infinite ammo for a gun you were never carrying. 2: Characters who may have died are shown "alive" during the ending. 3: Saren chose Synthesis, TIM chose control. Both had failed.
With the reveal of ME Andromeda being a parallel storyline rather than a prequel or sequal I believe it should give closure to the events that took place after Shep woke up on the battlefield of London. It's possible your character from Andromeda is tasked with an alternative plan that needed to be executed after shepard was knocked out. Much like the story of "LOTR War in the North" when compared to the main story of LOTR
I hadn't watched these in a bit but knew CleverNoob had reopened his channel and re-uploaded these videos ... Well, youtube has nuked CleverNoob's channel. Guy wasn't even active ... wtf youtube?
Hi! Julian here (aka CleverNoob).
I actually came back to TH-cam a month ago and was attempting to rebrand, doing purely analysis videos like this. Before I could even get the first one out, during the rebranding process I responded to a bunch of old messages from fans to tie up loose ends. Apparently this is against TH-cam's ToS, as they view doing so as a form of spam and advertisement, due to the age of the messages. You live and learn I guess! Horrible way to go out, but there's nothing I can do. I've already appealed and it was upheld. As part of the suspension, I cannot make a new channel either; nor would I want to, as TH-cam is clearly spiraling out of control.
If you want to keep in touch, I am currently livestreaming each week on Twitch under the name "HeyJuju" and will be posting sometime this month on my social media accounts about a Kickstarter campaign I'm doing for the development of a game that is geared toward blind and visually impaired individuals.
Thank you for your support and concern! I hope these videos will always bring back good memories for you. Thank you to Tyler for uploading them as well.
Hey - thanks for your response and for taking the time to leave this comment. Good to know you're doing well and still active.
google/youtube censorship and draconian tactics are indeed out of control. It's nice that these videos are still available, but if you ever happen to upload them on an alternative platform - such as BitChute - I'm sure many people would love to support them there from you - the original content creator. I hope you consider doing this and letting us know here in this comments section.
Thanks again for the comment and for the amazingly well put together videos you constructed. All the best.
Hey Julian can i ask you a favour? Im gonna subscribe to your current channel and when you get back your original one would you mind posting like a 1 second video with link to the original one?
Morgoth 336 Hi Morgoth! I appreciate your support, but unfortunately I do not think I will be getting the original channel back. So I think these are going to have to stay here.
I am however working on a new project completely different from TH-cam that I may or may not be announcing here (I haven't decided). But feel free to follow me on Twitter (@JulianKluk) if you want those updates.
There is a cut scene where Hackett says there are reports someone make it on the citadel.
That's from the updated ending though. I remember what it used to be, it didn't include that scene originally and was added to fill in that plothole.
Even though the developers disproved it this is still my headcannon lol
When did this happen???
@@kcking23 it didn't
Same here
There is some really bad points in here, in my opinion. A lot of this stuff can be explained away by laziness, and he's really reaching for some of these points like the Citadel tower.
However... I have to admit some of the connections in here are downright spooky. The amount of uncanny coincidences that you'd have to handwave away to disregard the indoctrination theory entirely is too much to make any reasonable sense.
The Rachni Queen specifically mentions "Oily shadows" and that's exactly what Shepard sees in his dreams. Also, the whole point of The Arrival DLC was about Harbinger trying to trap and indoctrinate Shepard and that DLC was designed as a lead in to Mass Effect 3. And as soon as Mass Effect 3 starts, he starts having the Oily Shadows dreams and hallucinating the kid. And you're telling me the kid impersonating the reapers is just a coincidence?
Frustratingly I think the indoctrination theory was something that the writers were going with at some point but scrapped during development. Leviathan pokes a ton of holes in the theory and does it's best to legitimize the starchild. But I just think there are too many coincidences for it to be totally made up like some fans suggest.
As I said elsewhere, I am fairly sure the ID Theory WAS on the Table, but before it could become official, someone High Up panicked & axed it. Perhaps they saw how poorly things like this have gone in the past. (Back in the mid-1990's, one of the Metal Gear Solid games had the Big Bad access the Player's Playstation Memory card & start messing with things. Including making the player think the Playstation had crashed. Even Pre-Internet, the Fan Outrage was HUGE.)
But why not tell us? Like the abandoned(?) Dark Energy Plotline? Again, I can't say for sure, but I suspect 2 things- 1.) Corporations NEVER make mistakes or accept responsibility.
2.) Spite. I don't know if you were there back in 2012, but Bioware acted like Butt-hurt jackasses to fans that didn't like the ending (Which was most). 'Whiny, Entitled, ManBabies' was the refrain from both them & the Games Journalists. The 4th 'refusal' ending is obviously a Thinly-Veiled Middle Finger to their customers.
@@torikazuki8701 Well Mass Effect 4 is in development so it's likely they will stay quiet about this stuff and we'll have some more answers whenever that comes out.
We still have yet to discover how in the world Shepard apparently survives the citadel exploding, going into a vacuum, then re-entering earths atmosphere and hitting the ground at terminal velocity.
That's physically impossible, so indoctrination theory or not, the ending sequence is either a dream, or we are witnessing the dumbest sequence of events of all time.
Mass Effect 4 will have to address this one way or another if it's supposed to be a direct continuation. Liara was in the trailer after all.
@@EldritchAugurTwo possibilities.
1° A Second Lazarus project. If Bioware is desperate enough, they could add that bullshit back in the story! It happened once.
2° It was all a bullshit / hallucination / dream, cause it was only the Reapers wanting to test Sheppard one final time, and maybing falling at the end? Maybe.
Overall: Bullshit and Fucked up writhing.
I only just thought of this when reading your comment, but Arrival is literally the perfect opportunity for Shepard to become indoctrinated, Shepard was out cold for DAYS literally right next to a huge reaper artefact that indoctrinated everybody else there.
Eh, seems like he makes too many leaps to conclusions on purely correlational grounds
This is my Shepards canon ending and nothing anyone can do will persuade me otherwise.
TLDR: It's all a dream and Shepard has been dreaming since she got hit by the beacon in Eden Prime back in ME1.
>Puts years into a game series to believe the ending is the same as Doraemon's manga
lol
Legion definitely has a soul. You could say the same thing about our brains and neurons firing. Once that's done, poof. You're no more.
I was thinking the exact same thing.
What is a soul anyway? It’s just another intangible idea.
@@G9402 Exactly, there is no scientific way to measure a soul, your consciousness is just your brain electricity. Legion is as much a person as any organic.
@@Oxideist Science is very limited. Our bodies are just part of nature. They will die out at some point just like everything else. Our soul however is our true self. It defines who we really are.
@@finnfisu Until medical science proved to us that we can't visualize it, people thought it was tangible.
The concept of things like a soul being on another plane of existence is only a recent belief due to the fact that we know what we are now.
If defined as self awareness or sentience, then I completely agree that the “soul” of a Geth is just as valid as a human soul. Our lights will go out just as their’s do, and Legion clearly possessed some amount of individuality amongst the consensus.
When the starchild says "us," he's referring to how the citadel is a reaper creation. Sovereign's plan was to interface with the citadel and activate its built in mass effect relay to allow the rest of the reapers to warp in and start harvesting. In ME1 you stop that from happening, delaying the invasion, forcing the reapers to propel themselves to the galaxy.
The citadel was deliberately designed to be enticing to those who discover it. A giant prebuilt space station, with an entire species of caretakers who need no instruction or reward. They take care of the citadel, they were probably created by the people who made the citadel, and that's about as far as species care. They dont fight back, they don't stop working, and so they just fall into people's blind spots.
The stsrchild is lying about everything else though. Also, the fact that you're just trying to fulfill Saren's original "plan" is a great observation
39:03 this actually is a power in the game (which even shepard can have at some point) called “dominate”. it’s literally indoctrination but at a faster rate and purely physical
1:08:12 okay… come on man… the starchild literally says he is the intelligence of the reapers, it’s NOT A SECRET, he even explains their whole family drama with the leviathan and everything
the indoctrination theory seems plausible but holy shit man sometimes it feels like you skipped through the most plot important cutscenes
1:14:27 MAN you see your TWO of your squadmates leave after getting shat on by the fucking flying tank, the rest had to leave because as anderson says the citadel arms closed after the two of you reached inside
@@fatstinkyballs2156 You clearly dont understand this video was released before the extended cut came out, the original ending didn't show the normandy landing to pick up your squad mates at all, and the Leviathan DLC was added later.
@@ItsAv3rageGamer yeah i figured it out too late when i saw another video talking about this one haha, im keeping it up because i wrote it in pure rage and confusion so it’ll be fun for me to see it in the future and cringe at myself
Used to be all about that synthesis, but after this, I believe in the Indoctrination Theory and Destroy. Excellent work here. Compelling arguments!
These videos helped make Mass Effect legendary.
Okay for the armour change thing, you get swapped to a different body model after being hit, and due to lazyness or trine constraints they only made one model for the default armour, still can be used as evidence but you can't say its clearly intentional game design
V late, but exactly. There's a ton of armour options, and this guy expects bioware to incorporate each of them (and their destroyed variants) for a section of the game that lasts like 10 minutes?
Mass Effect Retribution describes the process of indoctrination really well through the character Paul Grayson. A lot of the elements in the book are found in ME3. To me the IT was always true, and because of it I believe the ending of ME3 was perfect even without the extended cut. Masterpiece of a trilogy.
Idiot.
@@macklinbutcher3145 Talking to yourself, my dear?
As a quick aside - indoctrination theory fits into the overarching themes of ME on multiple levels.
We spend the trilogy uniting species and overcoming previously impossible centuries-long feuds. We even achieve peace and harmony between synthetics and organics (assuming you choose the paragon and destroy ending)
It’s also curious that our cycle is the first one to break free. The leviathan DLC talks of the reapers motives as a sick and twisted fail-safe system against unruly organics who unknowingly doom the galaxy - hence why then must be destroyed. And yet, our cycle does not experience the same pitfalls.
My theory is this; ID theory works because overcoming ID signifies that our cycle has achieved equilibrium with the galaxy. Our cycle has solved the problems that the previous apex races could not. By overcoming indoctrination, finding ways to co-exist with synthetics, with other races and working together to destroy the reapers, we have shown we no longer need the reapers.
In this way, ID theory also helps us make sense of the star child’s ramblings - the reapers are merely tools that keep balance and order. but even they must concede thier usefulness has come to an end now that an organic stands before them, having successfully built the crucible and resisted indoctrination. All decisions we made up to that point were important, making ID the ultimate fan theory.
46:26 ok so what was most suspicious about the part when talking to the Catalyst to me was him telling Shepard how to Destroy them, and it didnt even try to stop him, and what is also very suspicious to me was the kid got angry if you refuse to choose even if the reapers win if you do.
It's an AI that has had its core programming altered as well as there being new variables, outcomes and consequences. This was explained by the catalyst, whos idea wouldn't work any longer cus it would only have been a matter of time before someone else emulated Shepards success, someone who would not have been as sympathetic like the illusive man. Due to the purpose and function of its programming it had to go forward with the plan cus it could not deny a new solution was needed.
@@MikeDchy25it’s Harbingers voice
Amazing video my guy. Lot of hard work in this and it glows. Thanks for this.
We will know soon when ME4 arrives
Actually, I makes sense that Anderson came into another area. From what we get about these areas, they're effectively processing chambers for species that are meant for termination. They're death-chambers. And the easiest way to ensure a constant efficiency, is to distribute incomming material evenly.
I must say, looking at Karpyshyn explaining the original inted, I'm happy about what we got, because I'd have a lot of a harder time accepting such an idea....
The thing with Hackett is something I've been observing throughout most of science-fiction (Star Trek and Star Wars also have that): The tech someone has seems to have transponders. Means wherever the transponder moves, the person obviously must be moving. Means when Sheppards transponder vanishes from Earth and reappears on the Citadel, Hackett knows he got up there. Plus, given that Sheppard has some implants (at least from his Lazarus-reconstruction, if not in general as Systems Alliance personnel), they could also serve as an info-giver on the status of the wearer. Like a system that harnesses motion to stay active, it could use the flow of blood to work. If the person's dead, the blood stops flowing, the implant stops working and the life-sign is terminated on observing screens... Rudimentarily, we already have these techs (just not yet combined)....
As per the Starchild saying "us" when refering to the Reapers. During ME3, we eventually get informed, that not only the Citadel, but also the Crucible is of Reaper-design. They gave the tools of their own destruction to each cycle, waiting and "hoping" (cue the irony) that one cycle would be capable enough to end them, by proving to have acutally learned enough to defeat them. The Catalyst was designed by the Leviathans to prevent organic species from being annihilated by synthetic life, and he in turn created the Reapers to act on his behalf. But not to store them as a main goal. That just came by chance; their main aim was to terminate any cycle where synthetic life had gotten out of control, until at some stage, there was a cycle where synthetic and organic life found a way to coexist.
So yeah, of course the Starchild is both the Catalyst, and refers to the Reapers and him as "us". He feels one with his creation.
ServantOfOdin The problem with the idea that Shepard's implants have a sort of transponder or beacon is that the Illusive Man clearly stated that he didn't want Shepard modified in any way possible. That means he wouldn't want any kind of technology that transmits information or any kind of added security which is why he was so adamant about not installing a control chip or something of a similar calibre. It'd be more likely that it'd be inside his armour, but then comes the issue that no technology should be working in his suit. No comms, no shields, no signals and no pace-makers.
With Anderson, the issue here is that there is no other entrance from the beam. It makes sense for them to be distributed to different sections but there's no possible location where Anderson could've been warped to but also been on the same path as Shepard, and in that end chamber there is definitely no other entrances in either
I know the devs say it isn’t true, but if this theory is incorrect and the ending really is just what it appears to be on the surface, then it makes quite literally no sense and somehow they made a scene with zero cohesion and royally fumbled the climax of a series that up to this point was very sound.
Thank you very much for reuploading.
One of the best documentary trilogies I’ve seen
Looking back at this, it's funny how many players tried to make sense of the rushed and poorly developed final moments of the game. The ending still annoys me after so many years but the Indoctrination Theory still doesn't hold any water imo because, if it is truly a thing BioWare intended, it only compounds the problem of the poor ending instead of fixing or otherwise having it make sense.
Writers even recently confirmed they didn't think of that.
@@venepskeuten9206 yeah, I saw a recent video on that. Some folks were truly grasping at straws even tho the "evidence" some were using was pretty compelling.
Well done for re uploading this 👏
Peice of gaming history that shouldn't be forgotten.
wait..everyone floats in mass effect? pennywise confirmed.
Yes Jacob, they float. We all float down here!
It actually makes no sense that Shepard isn't indoctrinated. He has spent much time around Reaper artifacts. Hell, he was knocked unconscious in the Arrival dlc BY REAPER TECHNOLOGY. He definitely starts to lose it throughout ME:3...hallucinations...growling in his mind...idk. Meh.
Seriously.. The song in the background when Shepard talks to the StarChild conduit is LITERALLY called "Wake Up". The ending we got makes no sense if the I.T theory was never the intention, if multiple evidence suggests otherwise. A missed opportunity for BioWare ... instead we got Mass Effect Andromeda .. a slap in the face.
*StarChild Catalyst
I mean the Prothean Ai on Thessia seems to be able to tell if someone is indoctrinated or not seeing as it said nothing about Shepard being indoctrinated but warms about the indoctrinated Kai Leng approching.
Mass Effect deserves a better company than EA to have made and continue to make them.
Excellent work! You've pointed to things I haven't thought about.
Gonna be honest. But i am going to bet right here and 13:20 now! Sheppard is still gonna be alive in ME 4, or 5, wathever. They are gonna to turn tail, and say that at least 50% of this theory its canon. They are gonna explore the idea that Harbinger did succed in indoctrinating Sheppard and when he/ she woke up after the laser impact, it wont be the same Sheppard anymore. And we will have to "redefine" the character or something, rediscover his/hers memories and discover what really happened at the ending of ME 3. Some bull like that. Bioware had enough time to change their minds people, just saying. But take a note on that.
Stupid idea doesn’t work better option with reject you were put into cryo or it works like failed suicide mission where everyone dies most likely option, synthesis there is peace and prosperity until the new big bads come most likely some from of apex species as a prime non egotistical Apex species could wipe out the reapers easily, thus posing a threat to all three primary endings and shepard has a way to return in synthesis, destroy thanks to perfect destory the reapers geth and edi are dead so now deal with the end of the galaxy as you picked the worst ending possible, control would work as Shepard can control a clone body
1:01:45
Bro, I am so upset right now! One of the biggest proponents that I have held onto indoctrination Theory was the Duality of Shepards mind breaking down, into being indoctrinated (Illusive man), or holding on to his sanity (Anderson).
This is shown not only in the final dialogue with them both, but once more with the brief glimpses into either Destroy or Control endings.
It doesn't show shepard destroying the conduit - it's Anderson..
Likewise it isn't shepard uploading himself into the Reapers - it's the illusive man!
A brilliant argument for proof of indoctrination theory.... but have you played / beat ME:LE yet? They RUINED this scenes... now they still show Anderson destroying the conduit, but they no longer show the illusion man controlling the reapers... it's just a "jibberish" cinematic that makes no sense; and I'm pretty sure they messed with the synthesis ending too... but that's not the point.
The point is - they had a beautiful piece of work, that was both ambiguous, and symbolic - and they destroyed it by editing the final choice scenes... for what? Why did they do this??
Can someone else please tell me if they also caught this difference from the original games? Is it just me? Is it a bug? Will it ever be fixed?
I need to know!
Thank you
1:10:24 Falls apart when you consider your conversation with leviathan. They straight up say Harbinger is the boss and all reapers take after his image.
I believe this video was made before Leviathan came out.
I know synthetics don't have souls, but technically we organics don't have one either. Our emotions are organic reactions of our brain to comprehend the world around us and ourselves, but nothing more than that. We are husks. And our brains are our CPUs.
This is why i chose the destroy option. I figured it was the only true choice for the the character I had played as a paragon for three games. The only thing tempting me to another choice was the potential loss of all knowledge of previous cycles. It's truly a tragic waste that can't be overstated.
The 1M1 texture repeating itself in the end sequence does mirror how the Ashley and Kaidan bodies repeat themselves. It could be symbolic of shepherds kind repeatedly thinking and re-thinking these ideas/themes/memories/decisions.
The infamous Cormier decision is obvious lingering grief. But in the case of 1M1, it’s far more subtle. As Julian said - 1M1 can be interpreted as “convergence”. Think about it - the level design of the final sequence of ME3 is completely nonsensical. There’s no logic. However a lot of elements remind you of other places. The collectors base, the shadow broker lair and the illusive mans office - these are places shepherd
Visited and remembered. His memories are converging. This is why 1m1 and Ashley/Kaidance’s bodies repeat themselves - it’s symbolic of shepherds memories converging during shepherds final moments.
They say your life flashes right before your eyes as you’re about to die. Perhaps
This convergence of memories is symbolic of
This?
Here's an interview excerpt from Casey Hudson: I didn't want the game to be memorable, nor did I want to discuss the kind of polarizing reaction the ends had with people - what the ends mean and what happens next becomes. and in what situation are the characters still? For me, that's part of what's exciting about this story. There has always been a bit of a puzzle and a bit of interpretation, and it's a story that people can talk about after the fact.(14th March before extended cut). In the Extended Cut, Bioware has reworked the scene where Shepard exhales on earth with whispers. The whisper only stops when he starts to breath. When you shoot the child, the voice of the harbinger sounds: So be it and the cycle continues. They only gave brief, extra tips about Shepard indoctrination without revealing much about it. By the way, the song at the end is called wake up. It's a shame that the bioware doesn't really say anything about the end. The ending was hardly changed in the EC, but brought the indoctrination a little more to light. Or bioware has indoctrinated me and that's why they don't say anything about it. Help me.
Who else is revisiting this since the "ME4" trailer? The more I watch this the more the trailer makes sense.
I mean even if all this theory isnt what the devs intended to do and all this errors and plot holes could be atributed to time constraints with ease ,now with ME4 they literally have a golden chance to just make it cannon and make most of the fanbase happy with the end of ME3 ,the end short cinematic in the extended end dlc in mass effect 3 if you pick destruction where sheppards breathes could be the start of ME4 ,you wake up as sheppard after the reapers failed to indoctrinate him and then whatever Bioware just wants to do with the story but just with this little intro to ME4 they would redeem ME3 end greatly and make most of this plot holes turn accidentally into incredible story details without any effort put into changing anything in the trilogy related to the story
@@mapacortes2117 exactly, and that is what the fanbase wants. however I feel like EA will say that it is too predictable or some other garbage.
@@geronimo5537 Pretty much the other way, it being predictable is what EA would want since it would for sure secure more copies sold since if this theory is what most of the fanbase want then EA would have no reason to just say no.
I think it would be the writters the ones who would just drop this theory
An iconic piece of history right here.
I can’t believe this. I cried after “Admiral Anderson” died.
This is such a great video! I watch it everytime after finishing the trilogy.. Very plausible stuff. Also to mention, if you shoot the crucible kid he says with a reapers voice "so be it, the cycle continues", Just an excellent theory overall..
still too this day have no idea how Anderson got on the citadel, i've already thought that everything in that scene with him, from basically walking up to him, is basically 100% indoctrination theory gold. That entire scene with him and the illusive man is hard to argue with. I can see people explain the star child and the stuff pre beam up, but everything with anderson and the illusive man is pure indoctrination. Makes zero sense for them both to be there. Whats pretty crazy is how they didnt touch that scene much at all with the extended cut, its still got the black borders and whispers, the illusive man suddenly gains powers... He even demonstrates his control over Shepard
I believe the kid being in front of every caution and danger sign that appears in every one of his scenes is another case of Bioware using camera angles to their advantage in telling a story which you agreed they did earlier in the video but seem to discount halfway through the video when dealing with "ghost kid".
It's clearly not intentional but it can make for some decent headcanon. Correct or not, shep could still believe he's being indoctrinated and pick the ending accordingly.
The armor change is funny though. It's pretty obvious that they didn't have a damaged armor model for every armor set in the game. They wanted ruined and broken gear with an arm uncovered and only made a single asset for it. Not that deep.
Watching in preparation for the legendary edition.
Based ma guy
Sadly one of the writers of Mass Effect, Chris Helper, openly stated in an interview you can easily find online, that they think (the writers) indoctrination theory is really fun and well thought out, but that they weren't that clever with the story. So basically what you see at the end is what you get, from Bioware POV. This theory unfortunately is fans overthinking it, by giving meaning to things didn't mean to have meaning behind, and essentially creating a better ending.
Isn't it a great theory though? The Star Child basically offers Shepard the choice to control the Reapers, which is what they made Saren think he could (Sovereign implanted the idea in his mind that he found the way to shield himself from indoctrination, like what they did with the Illusive Man when you see in ME3 he kept part of the dead Reaper in his HQ), or to fuse with the Synthetics, and he presented it like the best option, but that's basically what the Reapers are trying to do the whole time. Harvest the organics and fuse them with their synethic to create a new Reaper, or field army.
I remember watching this video way back in the day and totally buying into it. Since I just completed another trilogy run I thought I'd watch this again now.
Just a small error though...About Anderson talking about the moving walls, Shep does see the same place. Shephard even confirms this when walking through that big room. You know, the one with the moving walls either side? lol
I always wonder how the minds of conspiracy theorists work. The mental gymnastics required to avoid the obvious conclusions just to twist everything to support your theory. It's the act of searching for confirmation while kidding oneself you're searching for truth. Great examples throughout in this, reused assets being cited as reasons for dream states, instead of the obvious conclusion that the developers were saving time and money by respinning assets on a hugely rushed game.
It's like high speed racing game where you avoid colliding with the obstacles to get to the end and the obstacles are the truth and common sense.
Exactly, i heard the jist of this theory for years and thought maybe there was something to it but after watching this im 100% sure its bunk
Hell some of these aren't even just becuse of a rush job. Some are just normal game development. I really feel that some gamers think game devs shoud remake every model everytime they a new game even if it's a sequel even though hey have a perfectly working model that already works.