@@cruisepaige Who knows? He wasn't mentioned in the video. In earlier times when villages were owned by the local Lord of the Manor (who was also the magistrate) they had six-monthly Court meetings, where she would have been brought into court and made to name the father, who would then be summoned to pay maintenance for the child (failure to do so would have meant imprisonment for him). If she refused to name him she would have been sent to prison herself. Harsh but villages couldn't be expected to bring up residents' children. Most were too poor to do that.
It has always bothered me that women are blamed and shamed for having children when they’re not married, never the men. It takes two to tango. Her poor daughter didn’t deserve what she got, she should have had a chance to live her life.
Well.. Think about it though. Biologically men have (on average) a higher sex drive-especially younger men who also have a tendency to take risks more easily due to not having a fully developed brain until well into their 20s. Young men at this time couldn’t necessarily be held responsible because there was no way to prove a child was theirs unless they admitted it. Women on the other hand are (on average) more adept at making less risky decisions at a younger age and have more to risk due to it being pretty easy to prove someone is the mother to a baby that she is actively pregnant with or birthing. Societies do better, historically, when families stick together.. Children tend to be healthier physically and emotionally when raised with mothers and fathers, and families statistically do better financially when they are unbroken. So it makes sense to “blame” someone for single parenthood (even if the way society does it is messed up) because we know it isn’t necessarily a healthy thing… It’s just always been a heck of a lot easier (before DNA testing) to prove who the mother was, so naturally, she’s the one that catches the heat. Which is why virtue was pushed so hard on young women, to help avoid the disaster that came with having children single/out of wedlock. It’s unfair, but biologically it makes sense.
What most people don't realize is that since time began it has been women and their children who have born the burden of shame until the late 60's or early 70's it was Always the woman's fault and quite often the pregnancy was a result of rape and often incest.
This case puts me in mind of a novel by Charles Dickens, “Dombey & Son”. In his story, a girl, Florence Dombey, about the same age as little Celestina, gets lost and separated from her wealthy respected shipowning family during a day out, and is kidnapped by a shady lady of the streets, “Good Mrs Brown”. She is then taken to a dodgy lodging house, threatened with having her throat cut, her good clothes taken away, to be sold, her hair cut off, to be sold. Then Florence is dressed in rags and turned out on the streets again. By this time no one recognises her so she can’t find her family, and is only saved by the family’s messenger boy who hears her asking strangers in the street if they know of the firm “Dombey & Son”. All Florence had were words to try and survive as well. In the story fortunately she survives and is taken back into her family - I wish little Celestina’s story could been so lucky. We don’t completely know what happened, here, but It seems to me that if you were a child then and found yourself on the wrong side of the tracks, or fell out of your own social class, a lot could go wrong. Dickens was one of the first writers who saw these children’s plight from their point of view, and published stories about them, which were immensely popular at the time and still are. Thank you for a great and thought-provoking episode Brief Case!
Thank you for the comparison to "Dombey & Son." I think also of "Little Dorritt" Dickens had a real sentimental streak when it came to vulnerable children.
@@jenniehudson5742 I’ve had a think about this question of why Celestina wasn’t just left with her adoptive family. Unfortunately it was fairly commonplace for children at that time to be put to work to pay off family debts - Charles Dickens himself was put to work by his parents at the age of nine in a boot blacking factory. It was after this that laws began to be passed to prohibit child labour so children couldn’t be used in this way. So there has been a lot of progress since then
Poor little child. I think the mother guilty as everything was premeditated. She did not form a bond with the girl as someone else raised her. Even so, what kind of evil allows to slit a 10 year old sweet innocent’s throat?
I believe wholeheartedly that this woman wanted to murder the child to get rid of her. This child represented the shame that she carried of having a child out of wedlock. According to somebody in the comments, they found evidence that support was being paid to the child's care every month, and she probably wanted that money for herself. She hated the child and considered her a threat. I mean, she was getting older and would have looked like her mother... the knowledge that there was something that was possibly going to take everything you built up is too much for a lot of people. This woman wanted to take out the threat. She hated the child and she decided to collect her and murder her.
What a tragedy Celestina's daughter was removed from Mrs Harrington's care after a decade! A mother telling her daughter to _HUSH_ as she commits such a heinous act sends shivers down my spine.. what a monster! *WHY* did she do it?! Rachel was clearly terrified of her mistress, which makes me wonder about Celestina's personality! 😢 Unmarried mothers at the time definitely had a hard time, but Celestina did marry later.. Could her husband really not spare the money for the child's foster care? 😔 Was Celestina really insane? I guess we'll never know.. Thanks, as always BC💼 for a brilliant presentation of a sad and harrowing crime.. 👏👍
@@pimpozza"Was Celestina really insane? I guess we'll never know" You're absolutely right. A person who kills her own daughter is TOTALLY sane. It must have been some OTHER reason than insanity that a woman would have murdered her own daughter because her husband didn't want to pay for the care and upkeep for a child that was not his. 🙄 what a stupid thing to say.
What kind of affluent husband wouldn’t spare half a crown a week to support a child that should be in his wife’s care? What about the grandfather? What a monstrous case all round!
Normal Husband. Many ex husbands don't even want to pay child support in our times. In the United States made it mandatory because in voluntary the ex husbands will not pay. Because there's no system to support women who are single mothers back then is the reason why Baby Farms exist. Celestine Husband resented the payment of the daughter because he didn't see it was his responsibility. Wives were totally reliant on the generosity of the Husbands.
@@PaleMagnoliaI think he found out. Celestine Sommers was spending £1530 equivalent to today's money on the care of her daughter per month. Something like that is hard to ignore. Probably the maid was way less expensive than this payment. An Victorian Maid made between £1 to £12 per year
"i know of this story, what i always find interesting was the historically "Baby Farmers" were mean and abusive according to most stories, but Celestina survived until she was 10, until her mother collected her, and then killed her. but give it a few years and the child would have started work, in service or a factory, even though it was hard labour hell, even if the mother had a bit of imagination, she could have "adopted" Celestina or pretended that she was a deceased cousin's daughter. even though the murder was so badly thought out, did she actually think no servant would hear her killing her own daughter in the cellar, where they sleep?
Considering the time period and her appearance there was a very high chance the girl would have ended up a prostitute in a child brothel (there were massive amounts of them in Victorian England) within a few years.
It is true that the little girl could have been passed off as the child of a family member. Or dear childhood friend fallen on hard times. No one would know the truth. To murder this child was unforgivable.
@@DianeLake-sw3ym that would depend on how much the child resembled her mother. If she was like myself (I look almost identical to my father except for my hair color) then tongues were gonna wag and gossip would spread.
@@markcarpenter6020 There is often a family resemblance though, which would be enough to allay suspicion. Sometimes cousins look very much alike and could pass for siblings. One of my great grandmother's sisters fell pregnant at a young age, so obviously couldn't look after a child, so she gave the girl to her eldest (married) sister who raised her without a problem. Sometimes the child would be raised by the grandparents and told their mother was actually an older sister. In those days you did whatever was necessary.
What a sad story. Things really sucked in those days for the children and women ,too. Stuck with the burden of an unwanted child. The father nowhere to be seen. That poor baby never had a chance. Glad your channel is drawing more attention to the victims of these crimes.
Many children were horribly abused in all ways back in those days. When i was in college years ago, I did a report on the children who worked in the factories in the 1800s. Almost as soon as a child could walk well, like 3 years old, these children were put in horrible, hot, rat infested factories to work. These poor babies died by the hundreds each year due to the abuse they endured. Children were small so they were put behind big machines and told to fix the machine when it broke down. When the machine started to run again, the children were trapped behind the machine until the worked stopped for the day. The child would have to sit there all day and many died due to getting crushed by machinery and many other accidents. It was just an awful time to be a kid in those days...
Yes, it certainly was awful. The factory act was passed in Britain in I think 1833, which was meant to prevent children under 9 from working in Mills, even so that was very young
Celestina's family knew the child was hers, I wonder if she even went to them about her lack of means and asked for help. What she did should not have been an option and was monstruous. Ugh, leaves me with a feeling of pure disgust and outrage. Poor little Celestina was the innocent yet her own mother made her pay for her indiscretion and inability to provide for her. Thank you Brief Case for this sad story from a bygone era.
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I wouldn't say she was the "embodiment of evil". I googled its meaning and it says "utterly devoid of good". Hmmm, I'm sure she had some good in her, at some stage in her life. Good people can do bad things. We all have a breaking point.
@@Marie.b you're defending a woman who slit her own 10 year old's throat?? what is wrong with you, Marie? find another hill to die on, this is not it, ferchrissakes!
It's hard to believe that the Sommers could not afford the upkeep of Celestina's daughter when Carl was gainfully employed as an "in demand" silversmith. I think he may have been worried about losing his place in "polite society" should it be discovered that Celestina birthed a child outside of wedlock. I also don't understand why the crowd chose to terrorize the witnesses Rachel and her sister Rebecca. Did they believe that the sisters were the true murderers? Historically, women were often given lighter sentences (or acquitted altogether), because it was hard for people to believe that a member of the "fairer sex" could commit heinous crimes. However, that misconception has changed over the years.
I am not sure, but I think they were just trying to blame the help. Then the people that were wealthy had an out. Poor people are more likely to have committed crimes like murder.
The poor little girl. She was okay in the foster home but, for some reason her mother decided it was too expensive now. You have to wonder if the mother took the little girl away from her foster home with the idea of murdering her then. How heartbreaking
The thing is, she was old enough that she could have found work for her with a live-in position. So she could have easily got rid of her without killing her.
I thought that too, that she probably took her away from the foster home planning the crime all the while. That's why she lied about having found her a job, to the people she was living with in the foster home, giving the job as the reason she was taking her away, when there wasn't one to begin with. Then she just brought her home and committed the crime soon after.
it's even worse in the court record - the mother is taunting the child while she's choking to death on her own blood, calling her a bit%* and a liar - this is a 10 year old, mind you, who had never before spent a day in her mother's care. The mother snuck her into the house late at night and marched her straight to the cellar. Poor little girl. The maid is lucky the woman thought she was asleep or she woulda been victim no. 2
It honestly sounds a bit dubious to me. The maid heard all that, perfectly clearly, and didn't see fit to intervene? Also, if the child's throat was being cut, how would she scream - I'm being murdered? Wouldn't there have been blood EVERYWHERE? We' re talking arterial spray here. But all the cops found was a blood splattered dress?? Why would the child say, "SOMEONE wants to cut my throat?" Why not, YOU want to cut my throat, or SHE'S trying to cut my throat. Just seems... Odd.
@@Marcel_Audubon Why,, because s/he is talking sense? I admit there is very little of it around today. Keep sucking the BS up, little hoover! Don't want you overtaxing that braincell! It is obvious that the maid's story was bollocks. Her 15 minutes of fame. She wasn't expecting the mob to turn against Her.
@@cmay7429 Arterial spray is not always present, I watched a forensic bloke explaining it all the other night In another old case where there was hardly any blood. If she had tried to strangle the child first it would have affected the blood flow .Or something like that. But then of course she couldn't have come out with all the guff the maid claimed she heard. We only have a few crumbs of the Real story here.
She could afford a maid but not to keep her child? And if the latter was true why not just put her in service as she said? Needless and horrible. Her penalty was fair.
She didn't want her child because of the stigma associated with women giving birth to children out of wedlock. You could not be a single mother or living in a common law relationship with children during the Victorian period. I think this was planned on this woman's part. She didn't want the child, didn't want to keep sending money to the child's care (somebody apparently found evidence that support was being sent to the child's care, and it was a lot of money), and didn't want anyone finding out that she had this child... so, she got the child back because she wanted to kill her.
@@TiffWaffles "You could not be a single mother or living in a common law relationship with children during the Victorian period" ... and yet millions of ladies did it without murdering their offspring. Millions.
True. Since I doubt her husband even knew that she had a child. I am guessing that she could tell her not to say who her mom was. Or that it was her caregiver.
@@TiffWaffles Rubbish! It was her Parents who didn't want the child, Not Celestina. If Celestina didn't want want her daughter all she had to do was put her up for adoption, stating that the father had died. Instead, she placed her in a home for orphans and PAID for her for ten years. Paying child support for ten years hardly hardly constitutes "not wanting the child". -It was her husband who wanted to stop paying, Not the mother.
This case bothers me more than most of your cases. That poor child! Not wanted at birth and then just murdered by her own mother to save money. Just terrible!!
Thank you Brief Case But for the first time I’ll say I wish I didn’t listen to this case! Brought so much tears and sadness to imagine what this 10 year old endured at the hands of her own mother it’s breaks my hearts to pieces! Unfortunately life failed her , her mother failed her and justice failed her Rest in peace little angel 😭
There are more ways for justice to be served than the death penalty. Mrs. Sommers was justly incarcerated and life in a Victorian prison was no picnic. Then she died so early. Yes, she was punished.
I can't figure out why this woman killed her daughter. She was 10 years old which means she could have been put to work to pay her own bread and board, most children back then were put to work at younger ages. I can't believe the woman got married without telling her husband about the baby even if she did feel like she must make up a lie to tell her husband, I just can't believe she murdered the child😢 I realize some women killed their babies and some women gave their babies over to women who said they would take care of them but then they killed them that I just can't imagine standing behind my 10-year-old daughter and slicing her throat!!
Good morning Mr. Brief Case, Stories involving children always break my heart because they’re so innocent. I’ll never understand why an adult chooses to hurt a child, especially in such a brutal way. There was really no justice because Constantina was 28 years old and died three years later. I used to struggle with the death penalty, but when it came to children being killed by an adult in such a horrendous way, I had no problem, thinking they deserved the death penalty. To this day, the most hardened criminals in prison they even have codes. If they find out an inmate has harmed a child they will come after you even as far as to murder you. Thank you for another intriguing mystery and I hope you have a wonderful week. Bless 🙏🏽
Gday BC, such a tragic case, why the mother murdered her own daughter is the 54 thousand dollar question. Its a crazy world that gets crazier everyday. Thank you for another well narrated case. I look forward to next weeks upload.
Greed, pride and stupidity. Couldn't even think of a story such as the girl was an orphaned distant relative she had taken in. Or just too cheap to finish raising her. Probably both.
And here is the one million dollar question, she has no mental health issues. So it must be that she lied to her husband about having and he uncovered her deception.
Strange that she didn’t actually put the child in service. Her husband must have known of the child’s existence if he was objecting to the expense. Putting her in service would have eliminated the expense and the necessity of raising the girl, leaving aside any modern sensibilities around child labor.
Hey BC, love your channel, it’s so different from others because you cover stories that we’d never see anywhere else. Historical cases are so interesting. Thanks so much for taking the time to bring them to us. We appreciate ya. Much love from Texas ❤
I hate to say it but in that time period (when child brothels were a massive issue in England) with her appearance and background....it might have been a mercy.
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What a better way to wake up on a cold wintery Monday morning than with a nice warm story about murder and mayhem with Brief Case and fam! Keep warm, y'all!🥰🤗☃️❄⛄🥐☕🍫🥶😻
I'm quite convinced Celestina Sommer did murder her daughter, but Rachel's story sounds so odd and unconvincing! According to her the whole murder was spelled out clearly by the victim and perpetrator like something out of a theatre piece or a penny dreadful. I believe Rachel did indeed witness the crime, or maybe part of it, but considering she was a very young girl herself, I think she felt the need to embellish the story for the court, thinking (like a tween probably would) that it would sound more believable if the people involved clearly stated "I am being murdered" and "I am murdering you".
My ex boyfriend’s brother was murdered in Colombia, and he was screaming out, “Help! They’re killing me!” People are surprisingly lucid in their last moments due to adrenaline pumping in their veins. I’m not surprised at all that the little girl knew what her mother was doing and that she defended herself with words; what else could she do? Plus, children were far better educated in speech back then and were expected to work like adults do.
It’s interesting that she was so overwhelmed with grief during her trial when , if the maid is to be believed, she sounded so vicious toward the little girl as she cut her throat. I wonder if it had been her husband to kill the child if he would have been hung?
Offtopic funfact:I'm 61,majored in English& just learned: "...people are not hung,such as may be your garments in a wardrobe;people are hanged by their neck until dead & may God have mercy on their soul."-some internet asshole who was mean to me!😂😅😊 American here-so,I just say "strung'em up" now!
I think a lot of people are missing the point. The mother and husband was doing well it seems financially. But this was not enough to be in line with the upper society. Mother Celestina had an illegitimate child around, that would not be accepted in the higher circles
why is everyone dragging the husband into this? - he didn't even know the child existed ... just because the murderer said the husband wouldn't pay? you're take everything a murderer says at face value? she was trying to justify her own crime!
The child wasn't around. No-one knew about the child, that was the whole point of fostering her out. She could have easily got her a live-in job somewhere and said that she was the orphaned daughter of a distant cousin. No real way of checking in those days.
Who was Celestina's father? Was it consensual? I'm confused. Glad the mother paid for her crime. Because her husband didn't want to pay some child support? What terrible people. Good one BC, thanks.
Obviously he had taken himself out of the picture many years before and was not contributing to the child's upkeep........whether it was consensual or not we probably will never know.....back in those days it would not play into the story at all, probably.
Assuming this wasn't the result of some mental disorder, my offhand guess would be that the child was the result of abuse by some adult in her life. That might explain why she had no attachment to the child whatsoever and was able to kill her.
@@Marie.b And I'm confused as to why you care about my confusion, as these are relevant questions for me and me alone. 29 likes, seems I'm in good company. 🤣
What a horrifying situation: Celestina (the mother) was a promising artist: talented and charismatic. It seems she was missing a loving heart for her child. What kind of person could do that? Perhaps she was insane, but we will never really know. Thank you, BC, for this riveting story.
Another wonderful case. How sad. How could anyone want to hurt such a beautiful child? Thank you BC. I so love you. I hope your New year is going well.
The little ones bring a tear to ones eye? Did she do the deed? The day after Valentine's day😢 A sad world to be living in for sure?? Other people's judgements.... Died at 31... Poor children all of them...🆘🇬🇧💯💔
We are going to England in the Victorian age for today's venture into true crime. I'm late for this one, but it's lovely to have an extra video to watch as I catch up. I love every one that I have a chance to see. 🥰
@@jenniferlonnes7420 I assume you have a personal grudge? I won't speak for myself, but my grandfather and father were also Cancers and were wonderful! I personally have had many bad experiences with Scorpios. The Western horoscope is not the strongest indicator for personality- your Chinese year and name numerology affect you too
Monsters come in all shapes and sizes and all ages as well. Just because a man, woman, or child seem like they're incapable of doing something, doesn't make it so.
When I heard the witness testimony about what the young girl victim supposedly said before she was killed i wondered if that was actually what a 10 year old girl in the 19th century would say while she was being murdered, it's not funny at all of course however the Bizarre Choice of words!
those are the words as recollected by Helen Munt, the maid, so maybe not verbatim, but that's very close to what's in the court record ... what is left out is the foul language the mother shouted at the girl as she was choking to death on her own blood.
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She didn't want the stigma of being the mother of an illegitimate daughter but ended up with the shame of being a murderer.
I never understand that just like the people that won't get divorced and resort to murder. Idk how they don't think murder is worse. 🥴
Where was the father?
@@cruisepaige Who knows? He wasn't mentioned in the video. In earlier times when villages were owned by the local Lord of the Manor (who was also the magistrate) they had six-monthly Court meetings, where she would have been brought into court and made to name the father, who would then be summoned to pay maintenance for the child (failure to do so would have meant imprisonment for him). If she refused to name him she would have been sent to prison herself. Harsh but villages couldn't be expected to bring up residents' children. Most were too poor to do that.
😮7.@@cruisepaige
That’s how bad the stigma was.
It has always bothered me that women are blamed and shamed for having children when they’re not married, never the men. It takes two to tango. Her poor daughter didn’t deserve what she got, she should have had a chance to live her life.
I agree. Double standards 😒.
Well.. Think about it though. Biologically men have (on average) a higher sex drive-especially younger men who also have a tendency to take risks more easily due to not having a fully developed brain until well into their 20s. Young men at this time couldn’t necessarily be held responsible because there was no way to prove a child was theirs unless they admitted it.
Women on the other hand are (on average) more adept at making less risky decisions at a younger age and have more to risk due to it being pretty easy to prove someone is the mother to a baby that she is actively pregnant with or birthing.
Societies do better, historically, when families stick together.. Children tend to be healthier physically and emotionally when raised with mothers and fathers, and families statistically do better financially when they are unbroken. So it makes sense to “blame” someone for single parenthood (even if the way society does it is messed up) because we know it isn’t necessarily a healthy thing… It’s just always been a heck of a lot easier (before DNA testing) to prove who the mother was, so naturally, she’s the one that catches the heat. Which is why virtue was pushed so hard on young women, to help avoid the disaster that came with having children single/out of wedlock.
It’s unfair, but biologically it makes sense.
There was no way to prove paternity so it was easy for men to deny their parentage.
What most people don't realize is that since time began it has been women and their children who have born the burden of shame until the late 60's or early 70's it was Always the woman's fault and quite often the pregnancy was a result of rape and often incest.
@@mod8179the Jezebel and the poor men don’t know any better syndrome.😉😉
This case puts me in mind of a novel by Charles Dickens, “Dombey & Son”. In his story, a girl, Florence Dombey, about the same age as little Celestina, gets lost and separated from her wealthy respected shipowning family during a day out, and is kidnapped by a shady lady of the streets, “Good Mrs Brown”. She is then taken to a dodgy lodging house, threatened with having her throat cut, her good clothes taken away, to be sold, her hair cut off, to be sold. Then Florence is dressed in rags and turned out on the streets again. By this time no one recognises her so she can’t find her family, and is only saved by the family’s messenger boy who hears her asking strangers in the street if they know of the firm “Dombey & Son”. All Florence had were words to try and survive as well. In the story fortunately she survives and is taken back into her family - I wish little Celestina’s story could been so lucky. We don’t completely know what happened, here, but It seems to me that if you were a child then and found yourself on the wrong side of the tracks, or fell out of your own social class, a lot could go wrong. Dickens was one of the first writers who saw these children’s plight from their point of view, and published stories about them, which were immensely popular at the time and still are.
Thank you for a great and thought-provoking episode Brief Case!
Thank you for the comparison to "Dombey & Son." I think also of "Little Dorritt" Dickens had a real sentimental streak when it came to vulnerable children.
If she didn't want the poor child, why not just leave her with her adoptive family?poor kid
@@jenniehudson5742 I’ve had a think about this question of why Celestina wasn’t just left with her adoptive family. Unfortunately it was fairly commonplace for children at that time to be put to work to pay off family debts - Charles Dickens himself was put to work by his parents at the age of nine in a boot blacking factory. It was after this that laws began to be passed to prohibit child labour so children couldn’t be used in this way. So there has been a lot of progress since then
I’ve heard about conditions in the prisons and the asylums. She may have escaped the death penalty but she didn’t escape justice.
Well said
Poor little child. I think the mother guilty as everything was premeditated. She did not form a bond with the girl as someone else raised her. Even so, what kind of evil allows to slit a 10 year old sweet innocent’s throat?
I believe wholeheartedly that this woman wanted to murder the child to get rid of her. This child represented the shame that she carried of having a child out of wedlock. According to somebody in the comments, they found evidence that support was being paid to the child's care every month, and she probably wanted that money for herself. She hated the child and considered her a threat. I mean, she was getting older and would have looked like her mother... the knowledge that there was something that was possibly going to take everything you built up is too much for a lot of people.
This woman wanted to take out the threat. She hated the child and she decided to collect her and murder her.
What a tragedy Celestina's daughter was removed from Mrs Harrington's care after a decade!
A mother telling her daughter to _HUSH_ as she commits such a heinous act sends shivers down my spine.. what a monster! *WHY* did she do it?!
Rachel was clearly terrified of her mistress, which makes me wonder about Celestina's personality! 😢
Unmarried mothers at the time definitely had a hard time, but Celestina did marry later.. Could her husband really not spare the money for the child's foster care? 😔 Was Celestina really insane? I guess we'll never know.. Thanks, as always BC💼 for a brilliant presentation of a sad and harrowing crime.. 👏👍
Times were really hard in Victorian England.
@@Boo675jhggg They certainly were, Boo.. 😔
@@pimpozza"Was Celestina really insane? I guess we'll never know" You're absolutely right. A person who kills her own daughter is TOTALLY sane. It must have been some OTHER reason than insanity that a woman would have murdered her own daughter because her husband didn't want to pay for the care and upkeep for a child that was not his. 🙄 what a stupid thing to say.
@@andrearamirez9924 Sorry, Andrea.. I didn't quite understand.. what was a _"stupid thing to say"?_
ITS CALL. PSYCHO. SOCIETAL PRESSURES AT THAT TIME WERE INSANE
What kind of affluent husband wouldn’t spare half a crown a week to support a child that should be in his wife’s care? What about the grandfather? What a monstrous case all round!
Unbelievable. Right?
I agree...😢😢
Normal Husband. Many ex husbands don't even want to pay child support in our times. In the United States made it mandatory because in voluntary the ex husbands will not pay.
Because there's no system to support women who are single mothers back then is the reason why Baby Farms exist. Celestine Husband resented the payment of the daughter because he didn't see it was his responsibility. Wives were totally reliant on the generosity of the Husbands.
The family apparently had the money for a full-time maid but not to support the child. I wonder if Mr Sommer even knew about little Celestina at all!
@@PaleMagnoliaI think he found out. Celestine Sommers was spending £1530 equivalent to today's money on the care of her daughter per month. Something like that is hard to ignore. Probably the maid was way less expensive than this payment. An Victorian Maid made between £1 to £12 per year
"i know of this story, what i always find interesting was the historically "Baby Farmers" were mean and abusive according to most stories, but Celestina survived until she was 10, until her mother collected her, and then killed her. but give it a few years and the child would have started work, in service or a factory, even though it was hard labour
hell, even if the mother had a bit of imagination, she could have "adopted" Celestina or pretended that she was a deceased cousin's daughter.
even though the murder was so badly thought out, did she actually think no servant would hear her killing her own daughter in the cellar, where they sleep?
Considering the time period and her appearance there was a very high chance the girl would have ended up a prostitute in a child brothel (there were massive amounts of them in Victorian England) within a few years.
Baby farming is another capitalist monstrosity. Capitalism has murdered over 3 billion innocent humans since the 1700s. Westerners hate that fact.
It is true that the little girl could have been passed off as the child of a family member. Or dear childhood friend fallen on hard times. No one would know the truth. To murder this child was unforgivable.
@@DianeLake-sw3ym that would depend on how much the child resembled her mother. If she was like myself (I look almost identical to my father except for my hair color) then tongues were gonna wag and gossip would spread.
@@markcarpenter6020 There is often a family resemblance though, which would be enough to allay suspicion. Sometimes cousins look very much alike and could pass for siblings. One of my great grandmother's sisters fell pregnant at a young age, so obviously couldn't look after a child, so she gave the girl to her eldest (married) sister who raised her without a problem. Sometimes the child would be raised by the grandparents and told their mother was actually an older sister. In those days you did whatever was necessary.
What a sad story. Things really sucked in those days for the children and women ,too. Stuck with the burden of an unwanted child. The father nowhere to be seen. That poor baby never had a chance. Glad your channel is drawing more attention to the victims of these crimes.
Many children were horribly abused in all ways back in those days. When i was in college years ago, I did a report on the children who worked in the factories in the 1800s. Almost as soon as a child could walk well, like 3 years old, these children were put in horrible, hot, rat infested factories to work. These poor babies died by the hundreds each year due to the abuse they endured. Children were small so they were put behind big machines and told to fix the machine when it broke down. When the machine started to run again, the children were trapped behind the machine until the worked stopped for the day. The child would have to sit there all day and many died due to getting crushed by machinery and many other accidents. It was just an awful time to be a kid in those days...
Yes, it certainly was awful. The factory act was passed in Britain in I think 1833, which was meant to prevent children under 9 from working in Mills, even so that was very young
True.
Very sad.
Even animals didn't have any rights. There was no humane or humanity.
Celestina's family knew the child was hers, I wonder if she even went to them about her lack of means and asked for help. What she did should not have been an option and was monstruous. Ugh, leaves me with a feeling of pure disgust and outrage. Poor little Celestina was the innocent yet her own mother made her pay for her indiscretion and inability to provide for her. Thank you Brief Case for this sad story from a bygone era.
Hi I'm Suzarra I was one of your first fans. My phone got smashed and I was trying to get all of my favorite channels back. I finally found you. I'm so happy. Thank you for your hard work. I have a bunch to catch up on. ❤❤❤❤❤❤
The jury just debating 15 minutes was lightning fast!
What a monster
Some people are embodiment of evil
That poor child 😢
She was so beautiful. So sad she didn't get to grow up 😢
I wouldn't say she was the "embodiment of evil". I googled its meaning and it says "utterly devoid of good". Hmmm, I'm sure she had some good in her, at some stage in her life. Good people can do bad things. We all have a breaking point.
@@Marie.b you're defending a woman who slit her own 10 year old's throat?? what is wrong with you, Marie? find another hill to die on, this is not it, ferchrissakes!
So happy to see another BC video! 🎉
Poor child... such an evil act committed by her own mother.
Unfathomable!
Good Morning,
Listening to Brief Case before the students come into the classroom. Better than caffeine.
It's hard to believe that the Sommers could not afford the upkeep of Celestina's daughter when Carl was gainfully employed as an "in demand" silversmith. I think he may have been worried about losing his place in "polite society" should it be discovered that Celestina birthed a child outside of wedlock. I also don't understand why the crowd chose to terrorize the witnesses Rachel and her sister Rebecca. Did they believe that the sisters were the true murderers? Historically, women were often given lighter sentences (or acquitted altogether), because it was hard for people to believe that a member of the "fairer sex" could commit heinous crimes. However, that misconception has changed over the years.
At least in the US, only men could serve on juries until well into the 20th century.
I was also so confused why the mob went after Rachel and Rebecca!
I am not sure, but I think they were just trying to blame the help. Then the people that were wealthy had an out. Poor people are more likely to have committed crimes like murder.
Maybe that testimony sounded like a bunch of bollocks??
The poor little girl. She was okay in the foster home but, for some reason her mother decided it was too expensive now. You have to wonder if the mother took the little girl away from her foster home with the idea of murdering her then.
How heartbreaking
Her foster mother and maid care her as their own
Well it wasn’t like the Father would help or be shamed if he didn’t.
The thing is, she was old enough that she could have found work for her with a live-in position. So she could have easily got rid of her without killing her.
I thought that too, that she probably took her away from the foster home planning the crime all the while. That's why she lied about having found her a job, to the people she was living with in the foster home, giving the job as the reason she was taking her away, when there wasn't one to begin with. Then she just brought her home and committed the crime soon after.
There isn't an alternate scenario to this brutality on the poor child. The mother was vile.
The description the maid gave describing what she heard happening - oh my goodness - heartbreaking 💔.
The poor child.
Thanks for sharing BC.
it's even worse in the court record - the mother is taunting the child while she's choking to death on her own blood, calling her a bit%* and a liar - this is a 10 year old, mind you, who had never before spent a day in her mother's care. The mother snuck her into the house late at night and marched her straight to the cellar. Poor little girl. The maid is lucky the woman thought she was asleep or she woulda been victim no. 2
It honestly sounds a bit dubious to me. The maid heard all that, perfectly clearly, and didn't see fit to intervene? Also, if the child's throat was being cut, how would she scream - I'm being murdered? Wouldn't there have been blood EVERYWHERE? We' re talking arterial spray here. But all the cops found was a blood splattered dress?? Why would the child say, "SOMEONE wants to cut my throat?" Why not, YOU want to cut my throat, or SHE'S trying to cut my throat. Just seems... Odd.
@@cmay7429 you, rolling in all 3rd rate Sherlock Holmes 170 years later is what seems ... (dramatic ellipsis) odd to me.
@@Marcel_Audubon Why,, because s/he is talking sense? I admit there is very little of it around today. Keep sucking the BS up, little hoover! Don't want you overtaxing that braincell! It is obvious that the maid's story was bollocks. Her 15 minutes of fame. She wasn't expecting the mob to turn against Her.
@@cmay7429 Arterial spray is not always present, I watched a forensic bloke explaining it all the other night In another old case where there was hardly any blood. If she had tried to strangle the child first it would have affected the blood flow .Or something like that. But then of course she couldn't have come out with all the guff the maid claimed she heard. We only have a few crumbs of the Real story here.
How so very sad….RIP dear little daughter 🌹
She could afford a maid but not to keep her child? And if the latter was true why not just put her in service as she said? Needless and horrible. Her penalty was fair.
it was never about the money, it was about hiding the fact that she had an illegitimate child
She didn't want her child because of the stigma associated with women giving birth to children out of wedlock. You could not be a single mother or living in a common law relationship with children during the Victorian period. I think this was planned on this woman's part. She didn't want the child, didn't want to keep sending money to the child's care (somebody apparently found evidence that support was being sent to the child's care, and it was a lot of money), and didn't want anyone finding out that she had this child... so, she got the child back because she wanted to kill her.
@@TiffWaffles "You could not be a single mother or living in a common law relationship with children during the Victorian period" ... and yet millions of ladies did it without murdering their offspring. Millions.
True. Since I doubt her husband even knew that she had a child. I am guessing that she could tell her not to say who her mom was. Or that it was her caregiver.
@@TiffWaffles Rubbish! It was her Parents who didn't want the child, Not Celestina. If Celestina didn't want want her daughter all she had to do was put her up for adoption, stating that the father had died. Instead, she placed her in a home for orphans and PAID for her for ten years. Paying child support for ten years hardly hardly constitutes "not wanting the child". -It was her husband who wanted to stop paying, Not the mother.
Thanks BC, as always, well done.
Very welcome
This case bothers me more than most of your cases. That poor child! Not wanted at birth and then just murdered by her own mother to save money. Just terrible!!
I wonder who taught the mother economics? Plain barbaric
Thank you Brief Case
But for the first time I’ll say I wish I didn’t listen to this case! Brought so much tears and sadness to imagine what this 10 year old endured at the hands of her own mother it’s breaks my hearts to pieces! Unfortunately life failed her , her mother failed her and justice failed her
Rest in peace little angel 😭
Off topic but Celestina is such a beautiful name.... another riveting story for us today, BC, thank you so much. Cheers! 🩷🖤🩷🖤🩷
I thought saw, too.
I thought so too!
I agree. I've always liked the name Celeste and when I saw the name Celestina, I thought, that's a pretty name, never thought of this name.
Celestina Christmas! ❤❤❤❤. I agree! very elegant.
There are more ways for justice to be served than the death penalty. Mrs. Sommers was justly incarcerated and life in a Victorian prison was no picnic. Then she died so early. Yes, she was punished.
She wept because her arse got caught, not for murdering her child. Pos
I can't figure out why this woman killed her daughter. She was 10 years old which means she could have been put to work to pay her own bread and board, most children back then were put to work at younger ages. I can't believe the woman got married without telling her husband about the baby even if she did feel like she must make up a lie to tell her husband, I just can't believe she murdered the child😢 I realize some women killed their babies and some women gave their babies over to women who said they would take care of them but then they killed them that I just can't imagine standing behind my 10-year-old daughter and slicing her throat!!
her husband probably didn't know about her existence
I love your work. I can't say how much you and the crime reel have helped me through a year of hell. Thanks again for all you do
Thanks for watching the videos, I am very sorry your year was so bad and hope that 2024 is better for you, take care
Good morning BC it's horrifying how the mother could do that to her own daughter. That poor girl. As always a great story
Horrible that she could murder her own daughter.
Good morning Mr. Brief Case,
Stories involving children always break my heart because they’re so innocent. I’ll never understand why an adult chooses to hurt a child, especially in such a brutal way. There was really no justice because Constantina was 28 years old and died three years later. I used to struggle with the death penalty, but when it came to children being killed by an adult in such a horrendous way, I had no problem, thinking they deserved the death penalty. To this day, the most hardened criminals in prison they even have codes. If they find out an inmate has harmed a child they will come after you even as far as to murder you. Thank you for another intriguing mystery and I hope you have a wonderful week.
Bless 🙏🏽
Thanks for your work and time ❤
You are so welcome
Gday BC, such a tragic case, why the mother murdered her own daughter is the 54 thousand dollar question. Its a crazy world that gets crazier everyday. Thank you for another well narrated case. I look forward to next weeks upload.
Thanks Rick
Greed, pride and stupidity. Couldn't even think of a story such as the girl was an orphaned distant relative she had taken in. Or just too cheap to finish raising her. Probably both.
And here is the one million dollar question, she has no mental health issues. So it must be that she lied to her husband about having and he uncovered her deception.
Strange that she didn’t actually put the child in service. Her husband must have known of the child’s existence if he was objecting to the expense. Putting her in service would have eliminated the expense and the necessity of raising the girl, leaving aside any modern sensibilities around child labor.
Thanks
Thankyou so much
Hey BC, love your channel, it’s so different from others because you cover stories that we’d never see anywhere else. Historical cases are so interesting. Thanks so much for taking the time to bring them to us. We appreciate ya. Much love from Texas ❤
Thankyou, I appreciate that!
Love seeing your commitment to scheduled releases as well as timely replies and “likes”.
Your professionalism is appreciated sir.
Thanks, I appreciate that
What a beautiful child. Some people are just evil!
I hate to say it but in that time period (when child brothels were a massive issue in England) with her appearance and background....it might have been a mercy.
I think these images are AI-generated
@@ThePoetInMyHeartthey are
As usual, your video and commentary are excellent. The visuals greatly help understand the story much more. Keep up the good work and thank you again.
Thankyou so much, your comment is greatly appreciated!
I really Enjoy "old" cases.
You do such a PHENOMENAL job in Re-telling the Story.
Thank You for All Your hard work, Research, and Dedication to The Channel.
Very sad story for the little girl and adoptive parents. Once again told very well Mr. Brief Case❤
Thanks :)
What a better way to wake up on a cold wintery Monday morning than with a nice warm story about murder and mayhem with Brief Case and fam! Keep warm, y'all!🥰🤗☃️❄⛄🥐☕🍫🥶😻
Meemuria. Ditto.
Scraping ice off my auto here in wintry NewYork.
Have a great day. Cafe au lait anyone ?
@@Agapy8888 yes, please!☕☕☕☕☕
IM SO GLAD I FOUND YOUR CHANNEL. YOUR VOICE IS BEAUTIFUL.I HANG ON EVERY WORD. WE. THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS FOR US. .SEND US MORE PLEASE.
Thank you so much!
I'm quite convinced Celestina Sommer did murder her daughter, but Rachel's story sounds so odd and unconvincing! According to her the whole murder was spelled out clearly by the victim and perpetrator like something out of a theatre piece or a penny dreadful. I believe Rachel did indeed witness the crime, or maybe part of it, but considering she was a very young girl herself, I think she felt the need to embellish the story for the court, thinking (like a tween probably would) that it would sound more believable if the people involved clearly stated "I am being murdered" and "I am murdering you".
My ex boyfriend’s brother was murdered in Colombia, and he was screaming out, “Help! They’re killing me!” People are surprisingly lucid in their last moments due to adrenaline pumping in their veins. I’m not surprised at all that the little girl knew what her mother was doing and that she defended herself with words; what else could she do? Plus, children were far better educated in speech back then and were expected to work like adults do.
Yeah, even in a Wilkie Collins novel I wouldn't believe that story for a minute!
Good evening from Australia. I just finished work n have BC to relax to 😊
Just wanted to say I absolutely love your videos and thank you for your hard work
Thankyou so much Cherie :)
What a beautiful wee girl. So sad what happened to her
Heart breaking all round. Thank you BC. 🇨🇦 ❤
Good morning thank you for the video! ❤️❤️❤️
Good morning!
Greetings crime fans and BC.
A sad story. Find it unbelievable. What a monster.
Fantastic Channel! 🤗💖👍
Thank you so much :)
It is a brilliant channel! ❤
@@Eirinen_E34
🤗🤜🤛🏆💐👏🫶🤩
True, it's a fantastic channel. Brief Case, continually puts out interesting content.
Anyone that kills a child could be considered insane i mean its not exactly something you would expect someone in their right frame of mind to do
Very tragic... And I find Celestina as monstruous as any other monster, regardless of the sexual genre.
Exactly. Even though she escaped the noose her life was shortened all the same.
@@kina18 Justice done
What is "sexual genre"?
That's what I wondered upon seeing this.@Frenchblue8
@@Frenchblue8 Gives birth to humans. I am woman hear me roar.
Just found this channel, its very interesting, look forward to watching more.
Welcome aboard!
Awesome upload, BC. Have an awesome week, and thank you for the content.
Thanks, you too!
Riveting case today! Thanks for another great Brief Case!!
Thanks Holly
Died at age 31? Sounds like justice came for her after all 😮 Thank you for brightening my gloomy Monday morning, BC ❤
Not really, life expectancy wasn’t that good then.
@@andrewbyrne2173especially not in a crowded prison or asylum.
Good morning Brief Case.
Morning Joanne
It’s interesting that she was so overwhelmed with grief during her trial when , if the maid is to be believed, she sounded so vicious toward the little girl as she cut her throat. I wonder if it had been her husband to kill the child if he would have been hung?
Probably.
Overcome by guilt imo...
Offtopic funfact:I'm 61,majored in English& just learned: "...people are not hung,such as may be your garments in a wardrobe;people are hanged by their neck until dead & may God have mercy on their soul."-some internet asshole who was mean to me!😂😅😊 American here-so,I just say "strung'em up" now!
The time and effort you put into your stories equals excellent results.💯
@@katherinethegreatoh, I didn’t know that. My mother was an English teacher, I’m such a disappointment to her😂
Good Evening
Brief Case 🎉
I love Mondays.
Why?
Brief Case.
I was wondering what time BC would pop-up..... Just in time b4 work..... Gooood morning BC ❤❤😊
You do such great work!
Thank you so much!
I think a lot of people are missing the point. The mother and husband was doing well it seems financially. But this was not enough to be in line with the upper society. Mother Celestina had an illegitimate child around, that would not be accepted in the higher circles
why is everyone dragging the husband into this? - he didn't even know the child existed ... just because the murderer said the husband wouldn't pay? you're take everything a murderer says at face value? she was trying to justify her own crime!
The child wasn't around. No-one knew about the child, that was the whole point of fostering her out. She could have easily got her a live-in job somewhere and said that she was the orphaned daughter of a distant cousin. No real way of checking in those days.
What a horrible 😞 story! This has happened throughout history.
Good content
Thankyou :)
Who was Celestina's father? Was it consensual? I'm confused. Glad the mother paid for her crime. Because her husband didn't want to pay some child support? What terrible people.
Good one BC, thanks.
Obviously he had taken himself out of the picture many years before and was not contributing to the child's upkeep........whether it was consensual or not we probably will never know.....back in those days it would not play into the story at all, probably.
Did she even know who the father was? So many questions.
Her poor innocent child, so brutal 😢
Assuming this wasn't the result of some mental disorder, my offhand guess would be that the child was the result of abuse by some adult in her life. That might explain why she had no attachment to the child whatsoever and was able to kill her.
I'm confused as to why you're confused! None of those questions matter at all to the story.
@@Marie.b And I'm confused as to why you care about my confusion, as these are relevant questions for me and me alone.
29 likes, seems I'm in good company. 🤣
Another fascinating case. Wonderful narration. Thank you
Thanks for watching
Excellent visuals!..and story
What a horrifying situation: Celestina (the mother) was a promising artist: talented and charismatic. It seems she was missing a loving heart for her child. What kind of person could do that? Perhaps she was insane, but we will never really know. Thank you, BC, for this riveting story.
Thanks Barbara
@@BriefCaseOfficial You are very welcome:).
Love this channel
Thanks so much
Just found you. What a find 😊. Great story , thanks .
Thanks so much
Brief Case is ready to launch. Seems like he has prepared everything in his *brief case.*
Another wonderful case. How sad. How could anyone want to hurt such a beautiful child? Thank you BC. I so love you. I hope your New year is going well.
Thanks Lisa, all good here
You’re work is amazing
Thank you for another interesting twist of history. Keep it going! I love it!😮😮😮
Thank you! Will do!
Glad to find your channel , subscribed to. Amazing story, and keep bringing more. Thanks.
Awesome, thank you!
Love your videos
Thanks so much Susan
Absolutely fascinating and your delivery perfect! 👍👍
Thank you kindly!
Hello BC, I hate tragic cases that involve children!
Hi Dee, Sorry :(
We all do! 💔🤜🤛
Than don't watch them!
The little ones bring a tear to ones eye? Did she do the deed? The day after Valentine's day😢 A sad world to be living in for sure??
Other people's judgements.... Died at 31... Poor children all of them...🆘🇬🇧💯💔
Another heartbreaking tale. Thank you for sharing it!
Thanks for listening
We are going to England in the Victorian age for today's venture into true crime. I'm late for this one, but it's lovely to have an extra video to watch as I catch up. I love every one that I have a chance to see. 🥰
I love your videos ❤️
Thankyou so much
Such a sad, sad case.
Other mother's fostered distant relatives children. I don't understand this at all. Did her husband force her?
stop blaming the husband, he didn't even know the kid existed - this is all on the mother
Thank you for bringing these stories to us . Otherwise they would be lost to history
another great story, thank you.
Thanks for listening
Another tear-jerker.. Such a terrible thing to happen to a child, and at the hand of her mother,no less. Great story though, Oddie!….
Thanks but not Oddie
@@BriefCaseOfficial LoL! I am so sorry about that, B.C.. My Bad!……
Are you able to make a notation about the “real photos” or just stock footage? For example: 3:38 is this the real home?
If I can be sure it's a drawing or photo of the person, I will put the name by it, if I am unable to verify it definitely is, I do not put a name
Not out-of-bounds for a Cancer...it's quite in character.
Celestina Christmas is a unique and beautiful name. Such a shame her life was extinguished.
Her name is so " Dickensian ".
Really? Are most murderers Cancers? Or are we bad mothers? My dog would tell you I'm a very good mom
Celestina Christmas was the murdering mother, not the innocent child
@@lazyhomebody1356 Cancers are both of those.
@@jenniferlonnes7420 I assume you have a personal grudge? I won't speak for myself, but my grandfather and father were also Cancers and were wonderful! I personally have had many bad experiences with Scorpios. The Western horoscope is not the strongest indicator for personality- your Chinese year and name numerology affect you too
Always interesting
Thank you ❤
Hey, @BriefCaseOfficial, have you ever done videos on Celestina's Newgate cellmates? Particular the two that you list in this vid?
No, I haven't, but I will look into their cases
Well researched
Thankyou
How did it come to this? A life full of promise goes on so dark a journey.
Monsters come in all shapes and sizes and all ages as well. Just because a man, woman, or child seem like they're incapable of doing something, doesn't make it so.
When I heard the witness testimony about what the young girl victim supposedly said before she was killed i wondered if that was actually what a 10 year old girl in the 19th century would say while she was being murdered, it's not funny at all of course however the Bizarre Choice of words!
those are the words as recollected by Helen Munt, the maid, so maybe not verbatim, but that's very close to what's in the court record ... what is left out is the foul language the mother shouted at the girl as she was choking to death on her own blood.
@@Marcel_Audubon That's very interesting, thank you for the reply. Where were you able to read the original court transcripts?
Hi!!! I left a comment early and I see its gone???...Anyways I really enjoyed this story. Nice Video...🦋
Maybe it went to the review section, I will take a look
Thanks great video BC.
Thanks for watching
Great case, BC, thank you.
Thanks for watching!