I legit just tried both full AP standard build and this hybrid build. This fucking sucks. Like, mathematically. Even after IE buff, whether the multiplier actually applies or not (too lazy to check if it does) on Shadowflame crit, it does way less damage anyway. Even going 4 AP items + IE doesn't justify skipping on extra 120+30% AP from, let's say, a Zhonya or Banshee. Not even taking the defensive passive into consideration and the fact 20% CR is not enough to comfortly deal enough physical damage through autoattacks only. And going IE+Runaan's just to crit on 2 aa's out of 5 in a fight without any armor pen is just... meh at best, considering again you're giving up on defensive options. Raw dmg (feel free to test yourself) - IE+Runaan = ~171 dmg/tick - IE+Banshee = ~220 dmg/tick (giving up on defense to crit 1 out of 5 aa's) - Banshee+Zhonya (no IE) = ~243 dmg/tick Let's also not forget W slow% multiplier, armor and MR from Banshee and Zhonya and, never enough mentions, the fact you have ZHONYA and BANSHEE. At first I thought Rat was just being a bit too harsh on a build probably intended for low/mid elo, but this mathematically sucks even if a bronze player was building it lmao
I've been playing a lot of AP twitch lately for testing, and I never build defensive AP items + I don't feel I need them. To be fair, the crit continuation is experimental, and you can of course just go full AP. Yet in your comment, you are completely ignoring the damage from all non-passive sources: the bonus attack speed, the on hit damage, the crit damage, and the AoE (which to be fair is hard to quantify). Yes, the passive damage will be lower naturally when compared to full AP. But that's self explanatory
@@MissFortuneDaBes bro I usually like your videos but this ain't it. I'm not even trying to be toxic or anything, I just don't understand how you go from telling me that you don't feel the need for defensive items, but in your recent video you reply to Rat's argument about AD Twitch getting oneshot "well, welcome to the ADC world". Am I missing some hidden tech? Does Ability Power by itself give you insane resistances that justify being less in need of defensive options, compared to ad build? If not, you're lacking logic. - "The bonus attack speed" = you don't do dmg, you don't need to do extra damage with autoattacks if you can do true damage, 99% slow and MORE magic damage with E. If AP, your ultimate in late game is only a source of range to comfortly apply 2+ extra stacks over W's, you only get 18% more autoattacks per fight. - "The on-hit damage" = against a general full tank (200 armor and MR), your build gets average 51 more physical damage on hit, in exchange for 12 magic damage and 58 true damage. With a full ultimate, Hail of Blades and 100% autoattack uptime your build gets TWO extra autoattacks during ultimate. - "The AoE" = I'll give you that, it's difficult to calculate how impactful AoE can be, but need I remind you late game AP Twitch has a built-in 5s cooldown AoE 99% Slow that applies stacks for the SAME true damage your build does on FULL stacks? Your build also loses 447 extra overall damage every 6.15s from E. Not enough? Let me also give you some extra maths regarding Shadowflame. Keep in mind it multiplies *only* magic damage and true damage, meaning it doesn't affect at all your autoattacks' physical crits and your physical E. When target is below 35% health, your E loses 564 damage. Sure, you get more physical than magical, but with an average base 103.5 Armor and 52 MR across all marksmen I'd say it's easier to deal magic than physical damage to your lane opponent. Sure, Malmortius, Wit's End and Mercurial (all 50 MR) do exist, but the first two are practically a huge tradeoff for every ADC. And even at 100 Armor and MR, your E deals 326 less damage. Your build: - autoattacks 18% more often (2 extra during Ultimate, which is the key for AD Twitch teamfight) - slows 20% less - deals a bit more onhit damage during said autoattacks - deals 496 (2x bolts) AoE damage BEFORE MITIGATION - that's 168 (2x bolts) on a full tank, 196 on a 100 Armor 100 MR late game ADC - deals 447 less damage on E - deals 58 less true damage per tick (that's at the very least 348 less true damage, not even counting stacks 1-5) - has less "unneeded" defensive stats and passives - apparently ADC class doesn't dream of being able to Zhonya every 2-3 fights or block Nautilus ult every fight All this for... 250 less gold lol Again, I don't want to lead you into thinking I'm a Rat whiteknight trashtalking you out of pure disrespect - I just think your build is shit. Feel free to prove me wrong after all this. But I wish no harm towards you as a person or a content creator in any way (I like your other videos, as I already said). And yes, all the physical calcs were made considering 40% Crit Rate. Also, I'm of course not shittalking full AD Twitch either. I'm strictly comparing your build to a classic full AP one. On the very last note, if there's a match where you don't need both Zhonya and Banshee to be comfortly out of danger, you can also risk with Mejai for even more magic and true damage output. Your build couldn't do that without making one of the other two items even more useless. And Mejai is also cheaper, although riskier. But your build is also riskier than full AP, for what it matters. EDIT: just do my_calcs*1.18 to see how much more impactful your build is taking attack speed into consideration, I'm too lazy to spend even more time on this.
@@MissFortuneDaBes I've been theorycrafting builds since S2, and I don't even know who RatIRL is until now. All I can say is on paper and in practice it just sounds... wrong. An equivalently wrong thing would be building lethality on Corki or attack speed on Zed. Sure, it technically boosts their damage, but why? What's the point? Do you have a secret money stash that lets you waste money? Do you have a secret 7th item slot for you to waste an item slot? AP Twitch is an assassin. He's throwing W, auto with HOB until 6 stacks, pressing E, and then leaving until he or his teammates get him the Q reset. There's no reason to increase his AA damage if he doesn't have the kit that allows him to AA. Everyone's going to target Twitch. If there isn't a target on your head by the time you claim to "fall off", you just haven't done enough in the early and mid game. Building crit without a single armor pen item isn't going to let you breach the front line. If you manouveur past that and hit the carries, a full AP build would've done more damage anyway. Even with against a full MR build, the true damage alone is atrocious enough for you to still be a threat. Increasing the crit from Shadowflame is just a stupid idea. It only applies below 30% HP. Why aren't you instead spending money on AP items that not only boosts the DOT itself, it will also apply its effects from 0-100% HP? Hang on, is this why you claim that AP Twitch falls off late game? Because you waste your money and an item slot on IE?
@@hiimshanawhy do you even feel the need to do this math. The build is clearly the most retarded shit thats ever been built in history of twitch builds
@@Tapzesadly yes. You out yourself into bad positions to do miniscule damage when you COULD just build AP items, throw 1 W, run away, click E and half health+ everyone
@@fezthedracky8468 bro ad twitch isnt even that bad with adc buffs rn you do ALOT of damage and if you have good position you can easily carry bro just watched 1 rat irl video lmfao
@@Tapze no I play twitch for 4+ years and am currently sat in Masters. AD sadly just isn't as efficient or effective. It's a much riskier playstyle (and more fun for sure), and requires a team to play around you. All of these things are not reliable for solo queue. AD just doesn't have the ability to stay safe that AP has with its better range, defensive items and defensive positioning available.
As a twitch main Im not too sure about AP twitch falling off late game with the w slow being almost a stun and E reset being only few seconds? then again im hardstuck plat so who cares.
Ap twitch doesnt fall off, his W CD is low and his passive deals insane damage, if u play correctly u will kill enemies without them being able to interact
@@DeepMotivation-DM im just looking to learn more about runes but yea i think hes wrong about ap falling off it plays so well into some tanks also where other builds just cant kill but ap will chip away with no counter play lol
True, AD stat is pretty useless late game without armor pen items anyway. AP items are almost always more coherent to the build. Like, the crit from IE only applies under 30% HP. Why wouldn't I just get more AP to boost the DOT that will apply from 0-100% HP? We can certainly justify Runaan's against some team comps, but IE? If this guy is basing his "AP twitch always falls off late game" opinion on this build, the IE is the exact reason this build "falls off" late game.
You'll get blasted trying to jungle but if you somehow manage to get to an item without going 0/3 and simultaneously impact lanes it is almost worth it not having a jungler.
@@verySharkey imo i don't think you can impact lanes much as anyone with a brain will instantly think twitch will level 2 gank or spam gank and they'll mostly play safe and if the enemy jungler counter jungles u which he will definitely ur screwed
I'm training twitch recently and as always, your video is very instructive for new comers to the champ On a less happy note, it seems your video has been ripped off by a channel called "LOL TIME". I was searching "twitch guide s14" and came across it. No mention of you or any credit so I don't think it's z wanted collaboration. Just letting you know
So sad to see you had to delete the videos because of ratirl bs fandom coming spread toxicity. Build and technics apart, there's no excuse for his attitude and even less for his community. I'm really sad because as a tw player I've been really expecting you to tap the ap style, but look at the payoff. Many of us are with you and will continue to support your educational content. Don't pay mind to those annoying fan kids.
Watch the build in action here:
th-cam.com/video/LrqwCsFFjnw/w-d-xo.html
I legit just tried both full AP standard build and this hybrid build.
This fucking sucks.
Like, mathematically.
Even after IE buff, whether the multiplier actually applies or not (too lazy to check if it does) on Shadowflame crit, it does way less damage anyway.
Even going 4 AP items + IE doesn't justify skipping on extra 120+30% AP from, let's say, a Zhonya or Banshee. Not even taking the defensive passive into consideration and the fact 20% CR is not enough to comfortly deal enough physical damage through autoattacks only.
And going IE+Runaan's just to crit on 2 aa's out of 5 in a fight without any armor pen is just... meh at best, considering again you're giving up on defensive options.
Raw dmg (feel free to test yourself)
- IE+Runaan = ~171 dmg/tick
- IE+Banshee = ~220 dmg/tick (giving up on defense to crit 1 out of 5 aa's)
- Banshee+Zhonya (no IE) = ~243 dmg/tick
Let's also not forget W slow% multiplier, armor and MR from Banshee and Zhonya and, never enough mentions, the fact you have ZHONYA and BANSHEE.
At first I thought Rat was just being a bit too harsh on a build probably intended for low/mid elo, but this mathematically sucks even if a bronze player was building it lmao
I've been playing a lot of AP twitch lately for testing, and I never build defensive AP items + I don't feel I need them. To be fair, the crit continuation is experimental, and you can of course just go full AP. Yet in your comment, you are completely ignoring the damage from all non-passive sources: the bonus attack speed, the on hit damage, the crit damage, and the AoE (which to be fair is hard to quantify). Yes, the passive damage will be lower naturally when compared to full AP. But that's self explanatory
@@MissFortuneDaBes Ratirl said it's shit so it's shit.
@@MissFortuneDaBes bro I usually like your videos but this ain't it.
I'm not even trying to be toxic or anything, I just don't understand how you go from telling me that you don't feel the need for defensive items, but in your recent video you reply to Rat's argument about AD Twitch getting oneshot "well, welcome to the ADC world".
Am I missing some hidden tech? Does Ability Power by itself give you insane resistances that justify being less in need of defensive options, compared to ad build? If not, you're lacking logic.
- "The bonus attack speed" = you don't do dmg, you don't need to do extra damage with autoattacks if you can do true damage, 99% slow and MORE magic damage with E. If AP, your ultimate in late game is only a source of range to comfortly apply 2+ extra stacks over W's, you only get 18% more autoattacks per fight.
- "The on-hit damage" = against a general full tank (200 armor and MR), your build gets average 51 more physical damage on hit, in exchange for 12 magic damage and 58 true damage. With a full ultimate, Hail of Blades and 100% autoattack uptime your build gets TWO extra autoattacks during ultimate.
- "The AoE" = I'll give you that, it's difficult to calculate how impactful AoE can be, but need I remind you late game AP Twitch has a built-in 5s cooldown AoE 99% Slow that applies stacks for the SAME true damage your build does on FULL stacks? Your build also loses 447 extra overall damage every 6.15s from E.
Not enough? Let me also give you some extra maths regarding Shadowflame.
Keep in mind it multiplies *only* magic damage and true damage, meaning it doesn't affect at all your autoattacks' physical crits and your physical E.
When target is below 35% health, your E loses 564 damage. Sure, you get more physical than magical, but with an average base 103.5 Armor and 52 MR across all marksmen I'd say it's easier to deal magic than physical damage to your lane opponent. Sure, Malmortius, Wit's End and Mercurial (all 50 MR) do exist, but the first two are practically a huge tradeoff for every ADC. And even at 100 Armor and MR, your E deals 326 less damage.
Your build:
- autoattacks 18% more often (2 extra during Ultimate, which is the key for AD Twitch teamfight)
- slows 20% less
- deals a bit more onhit damage during said autoattacks
- deals 496 (2x bolts) AoE damage BEFORE MITIGATION - that's 168 (2x bolts) on a full tank, 196 on a 100 Armor 100 MR late game ADC
- deals 447 less damage on E
- deals 58 less true damage per tick (that's at the very least 348 less true damage, not even counting stacks 1-5)
- has less "unneeded" defensive stats and passives - apparently ADC class doesn't dream of being able to Zhonya every 2-3 fights or block Nautilus ult every fight
All this for... 250 less gold lol
Again, I don't want to lead you into thinking I'm a Rat whiteknight trashtalking you out of pure disrespect - I just think your build is shit. Feel free to prove me wrong after all this.
But I wish no harm towards you as a person or a content creator in any way (I like your other videos, as I already said).
And yes, all the physical calcs were made considering 40% Crit Rate.
Also, I'm of course not shittalking full AD Twitch either. I'm strictly comparing your build to a classic full AP one.
On the very last note, if there's a match where you don't need both Zhonya and Banshee to be comfortly out of danger, you can also risk with Mejai for even more magic and true damage output. Your build couldn't do that without making one of the other two items even more useless. And Mejai is also cheaper, although riskier. But your build is also riskier than full AP, for what it matters.
EDIT: just do my_calcs*1.18 to see how much more impactful your build is taking attack speed into consideration, I'm too lazy to spend even more time on this.
@@MissFortuneDaBes I've been theorycrafting builds since S2, and I don't even know who RatIRL is until now. All I can say is on paper and in practice it just sounds... wrong.
An equivalently wrong thing would be building lethality on Corki or attack speed on Zed. Sure, it technically boosts their damage, but why? What's the point? Do you have a secret money stash that lets you waste money? Do you have a secret 7th item slot for you to waste an item slot?
AP Twitch is an assassin. He's throwing W, auto with HOB until 6 stacks, pressing E, and then leaving until he or his teammates get him the Q reset. There's no reason to increase his AA damage if he doesn't have the kit that allows him to AA. Everyone's going to target Twitch. If there isn't a target on your head by the time you claim to "fall off", you just haven't done enough in the early and mid game.
Building crit without a single armor pen item isn't going to let you breach the front line. If you manouveur past that and hit the carries, a full AP build would've done more damage anyway. Even with against a full MR build, the true damage alone is atrocious enough for you to still be a threat.
Increasing the crit from Shadowflame is just a stupid idea. It only applies below 30% HP. Why aren't you instead spending money on AP items that not only boosts the DOT itself, it will also apply its effects from 0-100% HP?
Hang on, is this why you claim that AP Twitch falls off late game? Because you waste your money and an item slot on IE?
@@hiimshanawhy do you even feel the need to do this math. The build is clearly the most retarded shit thats ever been built in history of twitch builds
how to play twitch s14:
if you want to win go ap, dont build ruunan and ie cause its troll
if you want to lose go ad
simple as
is ad twitch rlly that bad?
@@Tapzesadly yes. You out yourself into bad positions to do miniscule damage when you COULD just build AP items, throw 1 W, run away, click E and half health+ everyone
@@fezthedracky8468 bro ad twitch isnt even that bad with adc buffs rn you do ALOT of damage and if you have good position you can easily carry bro just watched 1 rat irl video lmfao
@@Tapze no I play twitch for 4+ years and am currently sat in Masters. AD sadly just isn't as efficient or effective. It's a much riskier playstyle (and more fun for sure), and requires a team to play around you. All of these things are not reliable for solo queue.
AD just doesn't have the ability to stay safe that AP has with its better range, defensive items and defensive positioning available.
@@Tapze no it isn't bad at all, you have chall players in euw who spam twitch AD
As a twitch main Im not too sure about AP twitch falling off late game with the w slow being almost a stun and E reset being only few seconds?
then again im hardstuck plat so who cares.
Ap twitch doesnt fall off, his W CD is low and his passive deals insane damage, if u play correctly u will kill enemies without them being able to interact
@@eutopia22 exactly, and the waveclear is absolutely insane with W poison that makes is so hard to push even with baron.
well it really depends on the enemy mobility, if the enemy has a lot of blinks and dash twitch ap is kinda trash@@eutopia22
@@DeepMotivation-DM im just looking to learn more about runes but yea i think hes wrong about ap falling off it plays so well into some tanks also where other builds just cant kill but ap will chip away with no counter play lol
Probably higher rank than this guy
the crit is so bad it doesnt matter it works with shadowflame because you dont have the ad to back it up youre bettet off building ap defensive items
True, AD stat is pretty useless late game without armor pen items anyway. AP items are almost always more coherent to the build. Like, the crit from IE only applies under 30% HP. Why wouldn't I just get more AP to boost the DOT that will apply from 0-100% HP?
We can certainly justify Runaan's against some team comps, but IE? If this guy is basing his "AP twitch always falls off late game" opinion on this build, the IE is the exact reason this build "falls off" late game.
@@azelynhirano nah building cdr and ap is better than runaans because you can just press w
@@seweski5569 I don't disagree with you , but it does have pretty niche uses.
is kraken or zypher not good on twitch?
Instead of Infinity Edge, is it more viable to take The Collector?
1:43 Finally now I can put league of legends skill on my resume.
great video, and i learned alot for twitch. But will no1 talk about the pike hard missing his grab?
Stolen commen:
@NikolomkLP:
IE and Deathcap to multiply stats you dont have
How is Twitch jg currently? The lanes are so large now, his invisibility might help a lot in ganks.
not good as always
wrong@@denisdenisdenisdenisdenis
You'll get blasted trying to jungle but if you somehow manage to get to an item without going 0/3 and simultaneously impact lanes it is almost worth it not having a jungler.
Good luck clearing
@@verySharkey imo i don't think you can impact lanes much as anyone with a brain will instantly think twitch will level 2 gank or spam gank and they'll mostly play safe and if the enemy jungler counter jungles u which he will definitely ur screwed
what about conditioning and revitalize? isn't it worth it anymore?
I can already see @wackaflcka coming 💀
as he should
Can you try graves adc just once
ty for mentioning pta, alot of old guides always said that lethal tempo is the best wich already then was wrong
What are the best options for summoners?
Ghost flash is most common. If you need cleanse replace ghost.
I'm training twitch recently and as always, your video is very instructive for new comers to the champ
On a less happy note, it seems your video has been ripped off by a channel called "LOL TIME". I was searching "twitch guide s14" and came across it. No mention of you or any credit so I don't think it's z wanted collaboration. Just letting you know
Dont listen to this cancerbad MF main plz
Nilah ss14 guide pls
enryu
Im a rat man
I think this is genious
I forgot to add, good sleep queue challenger gameplay ..b
So sad to see you had to delete the videos because of ratirl bs fandom coming spread toxicity. Build and technics apart, there's no excuse for his attitude and even less for his community. I'm really sad because as a tw player I've been really expecting you to tap the ap style, but look at the payoff. Many of us are with you and will continue to support your educational content. Don't pay mind to those annoying fan kids.
Don't worry:) and thanks for the kind words