Star Trek and Labor Relations: Looking at DS9's "Bar Association"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
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![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.6 (2/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GgeGQOP10RQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I work for Quark and I never had to pee in a space bottle when spinning the dabo wheel. A union would be bad for me - signed fake worker 7
I see what you did there...
Why do I get the feeling that Quark charges customers extra for that show
I Work for quark and he has always paid me on time. And the vacations to bajor are a Week long.
-4th shift ungorotime bartender
"I work for Quark and I never had to clean the biofilters for his popular holosuites! I say take what you can get you filthy commies!" - Bajoran Wageslave no 9
>This message was sponsored by the FCA
One of the great ironies of this particular episode is that Armin Shimerman (Quark) is really very pro-union and is very active with SAG-AFTRA.
Wallace Shaun is an outspoken socialist/communist as well, it's hilarious how lefty the Ferengi actors are compared to their characters
Isn't it the same with the chap who played Zek, relishing the chance to show how awful capitalists can be?
Shimerman's an actor, and a damn great one too. The fact that he played Quark so well despite having a completely contradictory world view is a credit to his efforts and talent.
Armin is such a beautiful and perfect antithesis to his own character and I feel that's really great. He recognizes just how disgusting Quark is and he doesn't attempt apologetics. Just watching the Benny Episodes in the 20th century shows you more of what the man's really like.
Well, it's called "acting" for a reason, ya know?
Rom had the best response to Quark meeting the Union's demands. "Thanks for agreeing to give me everything I asked for. I quit!"
I think it's important to note that Odo is, well, a cop. And it's interesting that DS9 doesn't shy away from the role he plays in that.
Odo would fit in right in with modern US Police Unions. It is like poetry it rhymes.
@@twenty-fifth420 Not sure about that. Odo appreciates order and the law too much to put up with some of the shenanigans police unions are accused of doing. He'd probably have no issues ousting bad cops from his jurisdiction.
ACAB? Quite agree.
In my country, they have changed uniforms often, and we say "In brown, in blue, in green, a SOB is a SOB".
He does say some off-putting problematic things in the earlier seasons about how he prefers to keep order on the Promenade...
you should watch the renegade cut video about odo and collaboration
To be fair to Sisko, his threat does work. Quark immediately tries to resolve the strike. He just treats it like any other issue between Ferengi and attempts to bribe the problem away.
For someone with such big ears, Quark is really bad at listening to authority when it suits him.
You kind of wonder what Capt Sisko would done if Bajorian workers (not part of military) decided form unions asking Federation for better benefits? Do you think his response would be same?😐🙄
Quarks response is actually one of the 2 classic management responses though. They take the organizer aside and tell them they're management material, offer them a raise or promotion to end it. The other classic response is to fire the organizers and then meet some of the demands for their followers, ensuring no one gets rewarded for sticking their neck out but showing you "care/listen/are reasonable " and they're grateful.
@@paulhunter6742Given the Federation is presented as an idealist utopia?
Yeah. He'd move heaven and earth to get the bajoran workers closer to the lifestyle that people not out on the frontier live.
Individually we beg. Collectively, we bargain.
I appreciate that the scene between O’Brien and Worf ends in the most Irish way possible: with an Englishman getting thrown over a table in a pub and with all three of them spending a night in the drunk tank.
Also that Worf is willing to defend them by saying “it was just a misunderstanding” to Sisko. He’s not mad at all. In fact he probably had fun
@@kaitlyn__L Any chance that Worf gets, by this point in his story, to actively participate in a good old fashioned brawl will always be welcome to him.
"He was more than a hero. He was a union man." All time great line, and makes O'Brien an even better character.
Also, do we have any indication Rom started investigating Marxism due to his trip to the 1950s, or is that just a neat coincidence?
Ok so that is a fascinating theory and I'm 100% here for it. "Headcanon accepted," as we used to say
I'm pretty sure it was a coincidence, if he even started researching Marxism in the first place.
I always got the impression that if you asked him about Marx he'd say "Who?", and that he "idiot-geniused" his way into coming up with the same quotes himself
As something of a newly minted communist myself, I kind of love that idea.
@@okuno54 Or...I had assumed O'Brien had shared some sort of terran union propaganda with him. As Anon O'mass claims, he was reading off a pad.
Brunt. F. C. A.
Jeffrey Combs was pure gold pressed latinum, as always.
@@crypticmirror Combs makes Brunt charismatic, yes, but not appealing. He's a walking caricature and never lets you forget it.
My favorite scene from that episode was the only one you didn't talk about. Quark's last attempt to talk to Rom and Rom stands up for himself and then calls Quark to account for his shitty treatment of him over the years.
But I'll never forget Rom's reaction to Quark telling him the FCA would kill him. "Well look at it this way. If the FCA gets rid of me then all your problems are solved. You always said you wanted to be an only child!" That last line of course was a reference to something Quark said earlier in the episode. It was so good.
“There’s power in the factory, power in the land, there’s power in the hands of the worker. But it all amounts to nothing if together we don’t stand, there is power in a union.”
✊
"We can bring the birth a new world from the ashes of the old
. For the union makes us strong. Solidarity forever!"
For God sakes cap'n, What are you quoting?! I MUST KNOW!
@@michaelunderwood216 He is quoting There is Power in a Union by Billy Bragg, from the album Talking to the Taxman About Poetry (1986). Enjoy!
Arise you workers from your slumber
Arise you prisoners of want
For reason in revolt now thunders
And at last ends the age of "can't".
Away with all your superstitions
Servile masses arise, arise
*We’ll change henceforth the old tradition*
*And spurn the dust to win the prize.*
I agree completely on Rom. Not only does he stand up for others, he learns his worth beyond what capitalism dictates about financial success. That is a powerful message.
I also love the fact that part of the reason why this episode IS so pro union is that 1) most of the writers on the show were union 2) the actors were too (Armin Shimerman iirc sits on the Board of the Screen Actors Guild specifically) so everyone was really supportive of the episode from the outset
I came to say just this thing. The performing arts and the trades are one of the last places in the States where Unions are still relatively strong, and I would be surprised if there were more than a dozen or so of the cast and crew of the series that wasn't a part of a Union or trying to be in a Union.
@@crypticmirror the problem with unions are the only power they have is basically brute force. What we need isn't unions. We need employee ownership. Give workers actual power.
@@cryofpaine those aren’t actually mutually exclusive at all
@@cryofpaine - "the problem we have with WW2 is that Allied armies are just blunt violent arms of their respective state"
do i really need to explain? bad yes, infinitely better than without them.
I love how I got a TH-cam ad about how great it is to work at an Amazon warehouse
It's a vision from the Prophets
I joined the union at my work on a whim and for the $20 they bribed me with and it was one of the best choices I have made. The union has constantly increased wages and benefits and my union rep has assisted me in all sorts of job questions and concerns. All workers should have a union.
For all my friends who've screamed that Discovery and Lower Decks dragged Star Trek into a liberal SJW bent, "Bar Association" is a reminder that my friends clearly didn't watch DS9.
You should find better friends.
It's literally always been left leaning.
Im always thinking they only watched very specific episodes but never really remember the rest of the varying series. They....kind of cherry pick the series episodes and seem to enjoy when varying races are flanderised as just weaker than humans in some way. Like they miss the point of the show.
Honestly in my experience its worse - they just lack media literacy. im willing to bet they also said "why do I need English class, im not going to use it in everyday life" a lot.
Great video about a criminally underrated episode. DS9 was really the only Trek series in position to properly tackle union stories because of its static location and focus on independent businesses, not just the military/exploration.
I love your rendition of "talking union"
Steve has a good singing voice
Got That 1920s radio speak easy vibe and loving it
Thank you, I did not know about this and was looking far and wide for the reference XD
I had never heard this song before. Imagine! I have now and I'm better for it!
The US: "Hmmm, maybe we don't want to celebrate organised labour around the anniversary of that time we massacred striking workers in Chicago"
The drug war was the inverse of what they did to first nation americans
"We knew we couldn't make being black & hippies illegal"(this is a nixon quote)- they made being indigenous illegal, then taught like 'anti left-handed' schools but with language, culture even adopting out children after stealing them like thieves
Also indiana was supposed to be a refuge state, but it was deemed "too good"
We were discussing atrocities
@William Sousa "attempting to oppress workers" better.
@@VincentGonzalezVeg “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people,” former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper’s writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday.
“You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities,” Ehrlichman said. “We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”
Implying America wants to celebrate the working class is possibly the funniest thing you've ever said, Steve.
I so feel this struggle as a construction worker trying to unionize in The Deep South.
Did Sisco hand Quark a pad with those staggering rent & expenses numbers on it?
Quark: This is preposterous!
Sisco: Which Rule of Acquisition says, you can't argue with the books?
I would love to see you do a video where you play a game like "Ferengi or Republican?" Where you have people guess if terrible line fell out of the mouth of a Ferengi or a current elected official that belongs to the Republican Party.
HA
I also love this episode because it's a shining example of how smart the writers and producers were to realize what they had in front of them with actors like Max Grodénchik and Chase Masterson. Few other series do as much for non-lead characters, allowing them to grow and become rich elements of the series heart. Rom starts as an unnamed foreman, has no qualms over killing his brother, then grows into a caring dad, labor leader, legitimate hero of the Dominion War, and eventually Grand Nagus. Leeta starts as a punchline to a skeevy joke, and grows into a caring girlfriend stepmother and wife, (mostly) without giving up her own agency and career.
Writers who reward good actors get rewarded by good performances.
I love this ep, and as a Pittsburgher, it amused me that O'Brien's ancestry could be traced back to Western PA, though it always irked the hell out of me when he said 'Anthracite Strike' of 1902. The anthracite mines are in Eastern PA. The bulk of the unions here were for Bituminous coal mines and the Steel Mills.
I was curious how they managed that one - to get the name of the incident right but the wrong end of the state.
@@DanielleWhite There was a world war 3 that probably messed up some knowledge of history + O'Brien could just remember it wrong.
@@s0ulshot and doint forget the kznti war, that happoned right after the events of first contact.
@@flyingfoamtv2169Larry Niven has requested that you please do forget the kzinti were ever in Star Trek.
They always talk about how Star Trek might communist. Everyone forgets it was Rom who quoted Marx.
Star Trek isn't necessarily Communist but it definitely depicts a society that has left Capitalism in the past.
@@crypticmirror what?
communism is defined as a stage where class, money and state no longer exist. It's not defined in relation to Capitalism, more like assumed to be a future stage of human society. Marx did assume a society must go through capitalism first as a stage though.
I like your quip, Frank, but some people were saying Star Trek is communist before Rom existed. ;) I don't see how anyone can argue against it, because the TNG-era Federation meets at least 83% of the points in Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto! I find it absolutely hilarious how this show with these details was slipped into just-about every American home, even starting before the Cold War was quite over. Biggest prank ever! XD I could get serious about this, there are a handful of bad episodes where the corollaries of the Federation's communism honestly creep me out: all the ones where Starfleet has too much power, but there's not very many of them and I still like to think of it as a prank.
The union steward in me loves this episode. It's awesome, how Rom and the other employees take down Quark and the FCA in this episode.
Come for the commentary, stay for the musical numbers :) Well done, Steve. And thanks for highlighting this important topic and most excellent episode
What is it from?
@@Warmishcookies Pete Seeger Talking Union
A movie suggestion for you: the UK Movie Pride is partly about one of the longest strikes the Miners strike and how a LGBT Group supported them. Brilliant movie and ends with a Union Song
It really is a fantastic film.
Brassed off is another good film
I was on Sons of Mogh in my current watch through when you aired this earlier in the week, so Bar Association (directed by the amazing Lavar Burton) came right up on cue...
These two episodes work in tandem to establish Worf’s place on the station through both the main plot and his own more distinct and independent subplot that carries over. And that is sparring and flirting in the holosuite with Dax, waxing poetic about the Mek’leth. Worf is totally preoccupied with trying to fit into a new place that works very differently from the way he’s used to. He gets called out for security breaches on The Enterprise by one of the only two to three friends he even has at this point on the station. The one he perhaps relates to and absolutely respects the most, Odo; who gave his brother a job in the previous episode, as it was clear Kurn could never abide the rules and regulations of Starfleet. And that’s my theory on why Worf crossed the picket line, he’s a lonely orphan who’s only ever wanted to fit in and Quark’s Bar is where the main cast usually hangs out. Beyond that, a few more episodes previously in Crossfire, Worf mentions to Odo how annoyed he is at Chief O’Brien trying to be friendly, so them getting into a “brawl” here is that conflict, which admittedly plays out almost entirely off screen over the course several episodes, finally coming to a head.
The penultimate scene when Worf is moving onto The Defiant, and Dax gives him her collection of Klingon operas to blast over the ships sound system also gives the ship it’s own character beyond beefy runabout with a cloaking device. Dax and Worf give The Defiant a Soul (and maybe knock boots, since she’s implying to him they can be as loud as they want... what? Worf is a shy dude)... it’s not just a stage for battles of epic proportion, in this moment it becomes home, both literally and figuratively, to the restless misfit warrior spirit of the entire series! (sorry I just cried a little bit)
I’m sure I first saw this episode as a ten year old boy, so I probably have a more fond sense of nostalgia for the subplot since the rest of the episode was way way over my head at the time. My brother and I still to this day have a very profound and uniquely Star Trekkie sense of honor we inherited directly from Worf, simultaneously the most and least Klingon of all Klingons. It’s why I’m proudly pro-Union as an adult. Happy International Workers’ Day
One has to wonder if the twenty-two week writers strike in '88 might not have still been on some writers minds when they wrote this episode. Or, perhaps they were sending a signal with an eye toward the next round of contract talks.
As a swedish marxist, seeing rom quote Marx made me very proud
I wonder if this is why O'Brien became the most important person in Starfleet history... he even battled the most important Klingon of the 24th century over the strike...
Comrade Rom is in the vanquard!
You mean Vanguard?
There’s a tiny sliver of people out there who love Star Trek and know all the words to the Almanac Singers “Talking Union”. I am that sliver. It is me. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Oh man I love this episode! Everybody shines here, Bashir, O'Brien, the lovely Rom, Quark... It's one of my favourite episodes of DS9 and Star Trek in general. It's funny, thoughtful and has a lot of charm.
My dad was a union rep, my grandfather was a longshoreman. My childhood was spent at union picnics and meetings. I remember going with my grandmother as a child to bail my grandfather out after a picket-line got nasty. It was nice to see pop-culture representing my family and something that was so much a part of my identity.
Always fun to watch Steve swerve in and out of characters.
Very much. He's good!
We're not gonna talk about Worf, Bashir, and O'Brien getting thrown in the brig after getting in a bar fight after Worf refuses to boycott the bar??? And Sisko making them sleep in the brig????
Great episode as always, Steve! "Bar Association" and to a lesser extent TOS's "The Cloud Minders" are some of the most important episodes that deal with such a crucial part of the human condition.
Let's also not forget that it was Rom who had the idea to use self-replicating mines to stop the Dominion invasion of the Alpha Quadrant when he was a member of O'brien's crew, saving billions of lives.
This also began with him starting a union.
Regarding Odo: While I agree your interpretation of his "narrow worldview" works, I think it's more deeply rooted in his individualistic role. He is an outsider to the solid community and an outsider to the founders. On the first Odo-centric Episode "A man alone" in Season 1 he is almost assaulted (possibly killed) by public outrage. Obviously a union fighting for better conditions and higher wages and an angry mob trying to lynch someone have very little in common but they share a reliance on group identity and i think it is this what Odo despises without being able to express it exactly. But like you said I don't think we are supposed to agree with him this time.
Even if they got the wrong end of the state I loved the reference to the 1902 Anthracite Strike as I'm from the region where it happened; I even had jury duty in the courtroom where the President's Commission had met.
A good review of the episode. (Old Union Man here myself.-- Steelworkers and IBEW.)
BTW, you DO realize we are fast approaching the time of "Past Tense"? Think we will get to the Bell Riots? OK, how about patterned neckties that loop around your neck?
My coworkers and I recently won our union and I'm going to have to watch this episode!
Great observation of Sisko representing a government willing to hold a corporation accountable for profiting upon the infrastructure provided to them by those same workers. Wouldn't be surprised if Teddy Roosevelt was in the Emissary's family tree somewhere
Personally that's not the message I got, but rather the monumental hypocrisy of corporations who get endless support, subsidies, contracts, tax benefits, etc. from the government and then treat their workers with scorn. Sisko here sounds more like the voice of common sense and morality.
@@Diego-zz1df I'm not sure there's a difference. Lots of governments have been very short of morality *and* common sense.
This script is awesome, The rhyming is great, The talking of unions, makes me your mate.
I worked for a company that had a union for 15 yrs. I saw a lot of good things and a lot of bad things. The good things were the benefits (health care, pto, pensions). The bad were union reps would protect people from losing their jobs when they clearly know were that employee was in the wrong and management was correct, which demoralized the good employees.
As a teenager i hated the ferengi episodes.. but as ive got older they have become my favorite aspect of ds9.. they are always laugh out loud funny..
I'm all in favour of unions and better conditions for workers, but wouldn't a system in which there is no owning class and in which the workers receive the full value of their labour be even better? Yes, we shoiuld start with strengthening unions, but we shouldn't stop there.
@@dwc1964 and both are a stronger position to build on than no union at all (which I think is what you’re getting at? Even if it settles temporarily into the former it can be agitated into the latter, but still providing security of income etc in the meantime)
Literally watched this episode last night. O'Brien reminded me of my grandfather who worked for unions back in the day.
Nice Pete Seeger impression. 🙂
It is jarring how rare it's become to see labor disputes depicted in popular media. One of the most surprising and enjoyable episodes of BoJack Horseman was the one where all of the assistants staged a walkout and Los Angeles just totally fell to pieces.
Answer: “We don’t want to stop the exploitation. We want to become the exploiters.” I’ll take why working class white people always vote Republican for $500, Alex
Yup, this is why so many people can be manipulated to vote against their own best interests.
@@dwc1964 So what you're saying is they're already the exploiters
ROFL, the Jim Cornette and Midnight Express reference had me rolling
Same. I actually had to go back and make sure I wasn't hallucinating.
Another very nice synopsis, Steve, thank you. As is typical when I watch your videos, now I feel like I have to re-watch MANY episodes! I'll be looking for your perspective as I do.
Please, keep them kind, keep them quirky, and keep them true to you. Most importantly, keep having fun!
This is my fave Rom episode. Also, just a side comment. The episode ends suggesting the union remains.
Quark says "disolve the union, at least on paper."
This is supported in the end of tye seires finally where quark is complaining about the "downfall of ferengi society". In his rant he adds that he too has been tainted and gone soft. He lists a bunch of ways he has gone soft and one of them is letting his employees unionize.
Part of the problem is that a lot of messages going out to workers are either short-sighted or lined with falsehoods. A common one I've seen puts a lot of emphasis on union dues ("union dues come out of YOUR paycheck!"). The teamsters and Jimmy Hoffa almost always get brought up as well. Some companies are also really quick in getting rid of anyone trying to stir up union sentiments. It sucks because you're right in that the owners shouldn't have all the power, and workers deserve fair wages and safe working conditions.
Fun fact: I live in Texas, and get a free calendar from my local municipality every year. Their calendar marks May 1st as "Loyalty Day".
Does Bajor have any workers rights? Do Starfleet have workers rights? They OWN the station, how can they allow a merchant (ie Quark) to have literally zero workers rights? Even Sisko doesn't *really do anything that much. I have noticed that in a few episodes of ST, Starfleet do seem to have very minimal workers rights, ie: they seem to work 24hr shifts sometimes, often work several days in a row without a day off, seldom get more than one day off in a row. They work LONG hours, hardly take any holiday entitlement etc etc.
Seems all rather odd considering they're supposed to be enlightened. Europe has reasonable workers rates written into law (max 48hr week, minimal 11.5hrs between shifts, 4wks minimum paid annual leave, all by law), and it still doesn't go far enough. The UK has reasonable rights, but not as good as places like France, where workers rights are amongst the best in the world. You don't f**k around with workers in France.
JOIN A UNION, PEOPLE!
So, two things. Starfleet itself is technically a military organization, and Star Trek is science-fiction entertainment - it would be boring as hell to show every waking moment of a character's life every episode.
To be fair, we do only really see characters in the equivalent of the military, who may have slightly different rights. It might be necessary to have a longer shift than normal if the ship is stuck in a space vortex.
Star Trek has a weird thing with overwork, where it tends to show the characters as liking to work, and also has them work past their shifts.
It also does say that sleep and rest are necessary, and I think each series until ENT has an episode where an overworked (main) character gets ordered to rest.
TOS had that one scene where spock tricked kirk into ordering himself to get rest.
TNG had to crew 'persuade' picard into taking a break, which led him to Risa
DS9 had it with Bashir ordering Kira
and VOY had it with the Doctor ordering Janeway to relax.
But it should be noted, that in the Federation, or at least with humans, you aren't ever forced to join Starfleet or any job for financial reasons, normally the only pressure comes from expectations from family or peer pressure.
And, if say you are in starfleet, you don't need to stick to the branch you chose, like in Lower Decks, where when Rutherford wanted to change tracks, the crew were really supportive.
And the 24 hour shifts, if I remember correctly, tend to only happen in Life or Death situations, so there's that.
But otherwise, it's not normal, because we know there is a night shift.
On the holiday/leave thing, I think it's more that we don't see it onscreen as much.
Starfleet is unpaid. You join as a volunteer so you can have passage on a ship and explore the universe. I think for a lot of scientists that want to test out their theories it's a devil's bargain to accomplish what you want.
For everyone else - you run the risk that your commanding officer will order you to do something you can't refuse and it will get you killed. Examples that come to mind - Neelix gets a guy to gather bones in front of a large predator's den alone; Troi orders a holographic LaForge to his death. (Still not sure why that one is a good idea - why set up a test so that a non essential officer can order a very essential officer to his death to save the ship. Why isn't she trained to go there? Why isn't there someone other than the chief engineer? Hypothetically after the incident the ship can live without a counsellor as it limps to starbase but not without their best engineer. It's a broken test.)
But they get to save up their leave forever, it doesn’t expire! That’s a subtle indication imo that there’s more going on that isn’t talked about much in the text. Plus there’s the time Sisko just peaces out of the service, in the middle of a terrible war no less, for like six or nine months, and everyone’s just like “cool, you’ll still have your command when you feel like coming back”. Which is even more extreme of a good workers’ relations situation than Barclay not getting into trouble when he freaks out and runs away from the transporter (where everyone’s like “well done Reg, good to have you with us” when he gets over it, which would not happen in a modern military).
Brilliant. Love DS9... Infact I’m currently rewatching the whole thing (I’m early in S2 at the moment). Fantastic show
I wanted this episode to knit union history more firmly into Starfleet's ideology in ways that couldn't be ignored or contradicted in later episodes. Maybe a few throwaway lines about how it's like having a "United" Federation of Planets. It's cool that O'Brien has a labor hero in his family and that the characters respect unions, but that could just be their own personal quirk. There should be a sense that unions "won" and were a part of how Earth created a society in which everyone has dignity.
oh my lord, ive seen this episode a million times and i wish i could upvote this video a million times more.
I don't think you've ever covered Babylon 5, but they had a similar labor/union episode in season 1. It'd be pretty cool for your to cover that too.
As a member of 2 unions, and a fan of this channel, this video was great
i forget exactly where i saw this some tweet i think, but Zek, the Grand Nagus of the entire Ferengi Aliance (or more accurately his actor Walace Shawn) is in fact a scocialist, like majorly into scocialism. the irony is gold pressed latinum
This is really good! I think one small oversight is that although it was obviously a joke, it's not really fair to call Bashir a bootlicker, even in humor. His line about meaning a union theoretically is in direct response to Rom asking for advice - basically, he doesn't have the expertise to give advice and he's not qualified to help out with that. Luckily for both of them, O'Brien DOES know a lot more about unions, so he can help out Rom. In that scene, the first scene where he praises unions and gives Rom the idea in the first place, and the later scenes where he and O'Brien observe Worf and others go into the bar, he's clearly very pro-union and pro-worker. He knows what to do by not crossing the picket line; he just doesn't know how to help organize. Not a union organizer material, but still a great pro-union ally we would do well to have more of in the real world.
As a fellow TH-camr, I feel like we should unionize now.
There are already efforts to do this.
Look up "Joerg Sprave youtube union"
@@victorbabarogac9505 "I'm creating an union aha ha ha ha"
- Crossbow dude.
This is an excellent review! Bar association became one of my favorite episode during my last rewatch which also corresponded nicely with my political awakning. There is power in a Union!
I found myself in an interesting position for a decade. I didn't want to unionize because my employer offered better compensation package than our competitor whose employees did join a union. But my company only did that so they compare our pay, benefits, and health insurance to that competitor to say "See? You don't need a union." Even without being a dues paying member my life was very much improved by the union's existence. Being in a position where I had to honestly say "I'm glad you exist and I want you to keep doing what your doing but it's not in my best interest to join" made for an awkward conversation when they eventually came a calling.
You could still donate what you would pay as dues. That way everybody is happy.
Star Trek and Pete Seeger. These are a few of my favorite things.
This is my favorite episode you've ever done! Thanks Steve!
This is one of your funniest episodes in a long time. I loved it. I laughed out loud when you gave the caviat that it was "their joke, not mine", and I laughed my ass off at your Jim Cornette line.
I know it's not your audience, but it's a shame that you don't do more wrestling stuff on this channel.
The episode was directed by Levar Burton, to boot!
So long as we're forced to live under capitalism, we do need more unions. For many, it's a matter of survival. But we also need to make way more room in our culture for Cooperatives (businesses that are owned not by a single owner, but by the workers that labour there, and where the major decisions of the company are handled democratically). I think if we had more coops, we'd have much stronger political Left, and a greater understanding of what Socialism could be.
¿Porque no los dos?
We could still have and arguably would still need unions even if all businesses were cooperatives. For coordination both among the coops themselves and between industries, plus much more.
Definitely one of my favourite DS9 episodes too, next to Past Tense.
Just when I thought I couldn't enjoy your Star Trek essays more than I already do, you take a jab at Corny being more problematic than a Ferengi corporate overlord in the middle of an episode about unions, which pro wrestling obviously needs. All I can do is stand up and slow clap, sir.
Unions in the US are too taboo and minus Police Unions due to modern culture, I swear there is no reason to not have one.
Oh and happy May Day Steve! I am a student but I too love to celebrate the time Rom quoted Marx.
Sincerely a socialist.
I know, in US schools we are a rare species, but we do exist.
Edit: DAMN IT STEVE, I WATCHED THIS THREE TIMES AND NOW I AM WATCHING THE EPISODE AGAIN!
I HAVE A CALCULUS FINAL TO STUDY FOR AND YET I AM FIGHTING FOR IMAGINARY FERENGI WORKER RIGHTS.
Shame on me. Not you, I love you.
I can't wait for that marx quote.
Being in a union is pretty great. Not needing to bargain with employer for basic healthcare because I live in Canada is even better (extended pharmacare and dental is bargained for and pretty sweet too).
What I wonder about is the business jurisdiction on DS9. Like bajoran laws and federation laws apy? They must have some employment laws in place? It turns out the FCA's power is to just prevent other ferengy who also care about what the FCA thinks from doing business with Quark. (Presumably when he is excomunicated later its implied that he rented his gear from some ferengy bar supplier?)
Not that he rented his materials, just all of his assets were seized, which includes the items in the bar (and also literally his clothes).
Also there’s multiple times where people’s home law follows them in DS9, so either that’s how Bajorans have it set up, or it’s some kind of loophole in the other cultures’ laws, like “you can’t let local law supersede ours”. Kinda like with an airplane, actually, where the laws of the registered country of origin apply rather than the country you’re in (or not in, when over the ocean). Alcohol at 21 on AA flights, alcohol at 18 on BA flights. But in addition to the plane, all passengers’ home laws follow them too, with whichever is more stringent applying. So an American would still be denied alcohol if they were under 21 on a BA flight, but a Brit who was over 18 yet under 21 also wouldn’t be able to get a drink on an AA flight.
So there’s some precedence for that in real life when involving travel with otherwise unclear jurisdictions, and one could see why that might apply to ships in Trek or ports out in space. Federation citizens might have Federation and Bajoran law apply to them, Ferengi at Quark’s have Ferengi and Bajoran law apply to them, etc.
With the amount of travel and small outposts in Trek, this might just be a normal and unremarkable part of life for them. But of course we’re accustomed to local laws applying in almost all cases, such as when at sea, or when you’re on land in another nation. So it seems weird to us as the audience at first glance.
I loved the talking union reference!!!!
:) Very Good episode. This episode like the other DS9 Ferengi episodes are different from the other DS9 and Star Trek stories. Their overall tone, purpose and impression are unique to themselves but they still fit and are generally very good for DS9.
My dad started the first union in a non-profit organization (Yale Medical School) in the whole wide world He was blackballed from acedemic work, we had our phone illegally tapped by Nixon's FBI, and had an entire summer with our blinds down from death threats. His birthday was yesterday - he would've been 89. He never cared much for sci-fi but he would've liked you quite a lot. I wish I'd have shown him this episode. 🙂
"Workers of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!" - Alien Marx
I would invite you all to check the headlines of most major US newspapers in 1946 to see the power unions held. Workers could dictate policy because of strong unions, not to mention influence major industries.
Steve doing his old timey voice is awesome!
Steve Shives is more than a hero, he's a union man.
Steve, can we evolve this into a fuller trek actually? Id like to see comparisons with the way the marquis view work, or how in first contact picard explicitly states that people work without pay in the 24th century.
Lower decks, both episode and series has more to say about this too,. Why do the none bridge officers put up with things like room mates and shift rotations without pay? Does star trek think work is somehow virtuous?
I see what you've done here! Saturday is May Day!
An interesting idea I had kicking around was that company execs should be held culpable for any disruption caused by an inability to reach an agreement with striking unions. For example: say rail workers strike, causing the railways to come to a halt. People now might not be able to get to work, or get to the airport for their holidays, causing a loss of earnings, or forcing them to use more expensive means. Until the dispute is resolved, said people can bill the senior executives of the company directly for any loss of earnings, or extra costs incurred that otherwise wouldn't be had the strike never happened. The law would be written so that the execs cannot shoulder this financial burden on anyone else in the company (such as by firing staff, or taking it out of their wage packets).
Love the poetry, among other things. Very good coverage.
Rom sure came a long way from almost blowing Quark out an airlock in season one
I would love to see this episode compared to the Babylon 5 episode "By Any Means Necessary" which also covers a labour strike and how it's dealt with. There are pros and cons to both in their portrayals of labour relations (B5 has the unenviable task of keeping top cop Garibaldi sympathetic, even when he's ordered to bust the union, albeit against his wishes), but both are unequivocally pro-union and pro-worker.
I agree about stronger unions- with one exception.
Police unions need to be gutted and declawed, top to bottom.
Considering the state immediately gets involved once a single small company deviates from the norm, the Ferengi might not actually be capitalist.
Since I haven't seen a lyrics comment yet, here's the talking union parody:
Well if you wanna higher wages let me tell you what to do
You gotta talk to the workers in the bar with you
Got to build you a union, got to make it strong
And if we all stick together, well, t'won't be long
You'll get shorter hours
More Latinum in your pocket
Vacation with pay
Take the kids down to Bajor
You've got a union now, and you're sittin' pretty
Put a couple Ferengi on the Steering Committee
Quark don't pay attention when poor Rom squawks
But he's GOT to pay attention when the union talks
He'd better
Promenade'd be awfully quiet
Everybody decided to walk out on him.
Now Rom you've come to the hardest time
Because Quark'll try to bust your picket line
He'll call out Security, the FCA
He'll tell you it's a crime to want vacation pay
He'll take a beating, he'll wind up left for dead
He'll blame you that those Nausicaans busted his head
Disloyal Brother
Weak-lobed Fool
Corrupted by the Federation
Because here at Quark's, here's what they found
And at the Klingon Restaurant, here's what they found
And at the Celestial Cafe, here's what they found
And at the Jumja Stick Kiosk, here's what they found
And if you don't let bribe offers break you up,
And if you don't let Nausicaans break you up,
And if you don't let Ferengi tradition break you up,
And if you don't let the FCA break you up,
You'll win.
What I mean to say is
Take it easy, but
Take it.
Bar Association is 1 of My Favorite Episodes...Quark is The Best Character in Star Trek History and The Ferengi Were a Brilliant and Refreshing Addition to The Show
I'd like to point out to everyone that the reason why cops are always immune from prosecution is because of extremely effective police unions, this doesn't take away from any of Stevens Points but it is Food For Thought.
Union have both pros and cons. Unions can be beneficial in helping workers to unite for a common cause. They can also be harmful if those who unionize are easily replaced by those not in the union or if the employer decides that owning the business is no longer worth it. The power of a union solely resides in whether or not they can maintain control while making demands that can be met by the employer without being detrimental to the employer.
In the episode referenced, the power of the union could quickly be nullified if any of the following occurred:
1) Quark decided that owning a bar was no longer profitable if he gave into the union demands which results in the employees no longer having jobs
2) His workforce was easily replaceable for less cost then giving into the union demands which results in the unionized employees no longer having jobs and new employees being hired
3) If Quark decided to start replacing the employees with new hires until the union dissolved which would demoralize the employees of the union as they start to lose their jobs
I actually wrote an outline of a Hallmark style Christmas movie where the lead is a union buster and the love interest ends up being a union president and the lead learns the value of unions I'm the end and gives the union what they want.
You know, the thing that always stuck out to me in this episode was the moment where Rom starts actually quoting Marx ("Workers of the World Unite") and Quark says "I don't know who you are anymore." Maybe you could just read it as family conflict, but I thought that was a moment where the writers were trying to be "fair and unbiased," showing how unions could go too far or become "radicalized."
It seems like a 1996 audience and a 2021 audience may see that moment very differently; it's a red flag to viewers of the Reagan/Clinton era, while to us today, we see Rom recognize the broader problem with the exploitation at the heart of Ferengi traditions.
That might be how more neoliberal viewers took it, but if you care about authorial intent, that was very much not the intended point in the episode.
Bashir: Somebody actually listened to me for once?
O'Brien: My ancestor, Thomas Durant, would not approve of this Union nonsense.
I'd say "Far Beyond the Stars" is just as good, and just as important today.