Garrison Keillor once said; we shouldn't be surprised when we find that those preachers who preach most vociferously against a particular sin, are actually themselves deeply ensnared by that particular sin. Keillor said, it isn't so much that they are ypocrites, but that they are so burdened and guilt ridden by their sin, that they are actually preaching to themselves when they rant against the very activity that they are involved in.
They certainly chose an odd profession to preach against what they were doing. But the Bible talks about people like that. Talks about people who will tell Jesus about all the stuff they did and His response will be ‘I never knew you’.
Such hypocrisy from Branham and those pastors! This is DISGUSTING. I just put the word HOMOSEXUALS in the Voice of God Recordings table and there were 35 citations of Branham condemning homosexuals as perverts and he sleeping with them and surrounding himself with them! THIS MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL WITH ANGER, for I´m gay and I suffered when I was in the message for that!
When I saw a past video of one the Vinyard Meetin 3:05 gs with John Wimber and on that video he was encouraging the men in not being ashamed to show their love for all. Which means not being ashamed of expressing their affections openly towards other men, not just women, it raised alarm bells. To how they were being encouraged to love your neighbour as yourself. And of course the one that was being encouraged into that, was very good looking, like a model, young. It was just a NO that rose up in me, I just knew it was questionable. This is the moment, I saw and learnt, and God was giving a witness, how sensuality through pleasure was getting into the church. God was warning about it, and the USA church didn't listen, I was grateful I was shown and could keep my family away from it. Had you just listened.
For people who left the message I hope that you have not stop believing in God and have found yourselves the right church that is fit for you and for the season that you are in. sending you many blessings ❤ I know how hard it must be finding out that you were brought up in a lie may that experience makes you want to draw even nearer to the true living God our Lord and savior Jesus Christ ❤
That's nonsense. People who believe in God WILL leave the message. You can't worship God and a false prophet. Once you're free from the message you can enjoy your Christian life without a yelling, blasphemous false teacher
When one adds the Cloud discrepancies, WMB's connection to convicted murderer Leslie Douglas Ashley (the homosexual transvestite) and the fact that instead of going on a honeymoon or even staying with his sick wife, he went to Pawpaw Lake with men for another hunting trip, the plot thickens even more....
When I read The Serpent's Tail, I did think Leo was forcing all these straight men to engage in homosexual acts as a way of humiliating and controlling them.
It seems that preachers who constantly harp on a topic, like homosexuality, or pornography, or adultery, or food addiction, are the very ones struggling with that particular thing.
"me thinketh, thy preacher protesteth too much!" TH-cam is full of these holier than thou ' Christian celebrities ' whose main drive is too ' sell books, increase their 'likes' and get more $$$$. Matthew 6:1 "Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in Heaven.....that your charitable deed may be done in secret and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly". Be very careful as to your motives when you put up a video, God sees the root motive before you do!
It's not surprising that a percentage of message members are gay because most members are born into this cult. They didn't ask to join it and they will very possibly lose all their family and friends if they leave. If a person is not willing to pay that price, they could easily stay in the cult even though they are gay.
What, Pristine? Most people in this cult were born into. Me and you are the unusual ones, we weren't. Do you want to lose your whole family and all your friends? I don't. But that's what happens to lots of people born into this cult who leave it.
Also Leslie the mess in particular tends to produce a lot of socially awkward people. So this lifestyle will get worse in their fellowship. They are so fearful of sex, so they assume the slightest move would lead them down that path. As I mentioned in one comment the men sat separately from the women, the men couldn’t hug the women and vice versa. All of this because of fear.
I know, you stick out like a sore thumb. That happened to me when I left the cult and went to school and started working in a hospital. People were talking about so many things and I didn't know what those those things were. Everything from friends with benefits to lots of different movies and singers to honey boo boo. I thought it was a toy, but no, she's a little girl. I always said, what is that? And I got the answer, you've never heard of a booty call? No, actually, I had never heard that phrase until I heard it that day at work. And I haven't heard since I stopped working there, I'm glad to say.
Leslie it was the same for me😂. My colleagues would say ‘My goodness! Have you lived?’ When I would ask ‘oh what’s that?’ Eventually I stopped asking because I felt embarrassed. Even going to the cinema was a problem for me. Oh well, never mind. 😅
The enigmatic conundrum persists. While the researchers cannot claim absolute certainty in unraveling the truth, one cannot help but notice the flurry of activity and involvement that raises eyebrows and justifiably triggers suspicion. It's like stumbling upon a puzzle with missing pieces, yet the pieces that are in place paint a rather intriguing picture. After all, where there is smoke, there's usually a disgruntled pyromaniac trying to juggle flaming batons of secrecy and deception.
Clearly there is a deep hypocrisy that was going on. Even if an open secret to many. He chose how often to preach on homosexuality rather than other topics. It was not a time to safely be open about same sex attraction, in the wider community, much less the church. I tend to agree having heard and now read about Leo Mercer, that he enabled behaviour in that community that was coercive, manipulating people into acts that they would not otherwise have been inclined to. Thank you for this episode.
Thank you for having the courage to share this information with us. And thank you for saying you'll leave it up to us to make up our own minds what to do with the evidence. I have a lot of respect for that.
My brother in law and his wife and 4 kids(young kids)have been in this cult for almost 20 years, I’ve watched almost all of these videos and have a lot of info but please give me an idea of how to present this information to him so I can help him. Thank you
I just came out, and my wife and daughters are still in it along with most of my family and friends Rod Bergen from Believe the sign recommend going to your spouse and asking them to investigate with you . That seems like a good idea to me that’s not what I did and my wife does not believe me. So the idea of drawing someone into doing their own investigation seems valuable. Unfortunately, a lot of the preachers are taking a very hard stance against “ the critics “ I am still arguing with an confronting some of my old preacher friends And I am actively reaching out to my family and friends within the message If you would like me to try to get in touch with your relatives, I would be happy to, especially if they are someone that I have met. One other idea a little crazy, but might work is you could pose as if you were interested in joining the message but had questions and ask them to help you investigate your questions . 🙏🏻
@@mattleitner5194 thank you, and I’m glad you came out of that bondage. Quick question, how did you come out? What encouraged or moved you to do it? Thanks
So one thing that I can think of was reading or listening to a book from Philip Yancey titled where is God when it hurts This addresses one of the great questions that mankind has, and some of the author’s ideas and experiences that he shared, helped me realize I was in an extremist group and helped me prepare to move back towards normal Christianity. Another book that I read before I came out, was through the needles eye by David servant, a.k.a. Kirkwood , this is also a great Christian book These resources would be very non-confrontational as they do not mention Branham at all I think they helped me see some of the inconsistencies within “the message.” Realizing that there are real Christians outside of the message helped me be willing to look at the problems with Branham. I have tried the direct confrontation approach with many of my family and friends within the message, and it does not seem to work very well It seems like a person needs to start thinking for themselves. Anything that would encourage them to think for themselves would be valuable. Many of the leaders in the message are fighting against this (discouraging people from careful thinking). Thanks for asking!
If a straight message believer was invited on a hunting trip or any trip by the man they believe is either Elijah or God, I can definitely see why they would want to be there, whether the other people on the trip were openly gay or not.
@@pristineclear8604 I have no idea what you are talking about. Anyone who believes WMB was God, was Elijah, or was an even a slightly good, moral person is very sadly deceived.
The comment was about why people would want to go on a hunting trip with WMB. They were brainwashed into believing WMB was Elijah or God. You know I don't believe he was anything but an evil man.
Yes Leslie. They trusted him. This clearly is what is still happening. Mess believers honestly trust and believe everything WMB said on his tapes. So imagine how these men felt when they were in his presence. They were honoured. So even if he did and or made them do things, they wouldn’t even see it as sinful. All reason goes out of your head when you so much value on human beings and not on God our Creator.
Pristine, nobody has told you to go anywhere in the first place. As a matter of fact, the more you comment the better because the video will get recommended more. How do you think this video has been able to garner this amount of views within this short space of time?
Wow! So there were rumours even when he was alive? I can assure you majority of mess churches absolutely do not know this! This is breaking news for me.
Leslie you are right. John and Charles have done very well. They have given so much information and in good chronological order so it’s easy to follow. Some things we wouldn’t know and that’s expected like most historical events. I’m glad they’re here on TH-cam.
In regards to William Branham taking his inner circle to the Pagal and then openly flaunting it, did he think he was able to get away with it without someone finding out later?
Maybe because some of them in the circle lived that life, he felt comfortable and didn’t think they would expose him. Also remember WMB had a very sharp tongue and it could be that they were scared he would obliterate them if they tried to tell on him 😂. I mean look at how he spoke of Billy Graham. I never even heard Billy Graham mention his name.
Very goid point, but WMB said he went to that place on tape!! That's the crazy part! He exposed himself! It's Luke he could say anything ad we all just sit there nodding our heads, saying amen! I don't know why I did that, other than mind control. That's the only explanation I can thunk of.
@@pristineclear8604 You mean just like there's no proof the sun is going to come up tomorrow? It's come up every day since the world began, but who says it will come up tomorrow.
I never thought of a link between WMBs hatred of women with being homosexual. That is really interesting. And just to preempt anyone who would like to say WMB did not hate women's said he struggled against the urge to shoot women, that we weren't with the bullet it would take to kill a s. That every sin that has ever happened in the entire world was either done by a woman or a woman was behind it. That women are lower than hogs and dogs, that daughters ( never sons, never chldren, only daughters) should be beaten with a barrel slat until they can't get out of bed for six months, or until they are covered with weird so bad they can't get their clothes back on. That women are human sex-disposals. WMB did hate what women and his hateful teachings are still being used to oppress women.
Anyone who says he didn’t hate women is being dishonest. I know mess believers will say he was referring to non mess believing women but this is still not right. So to them, you can harm or speak ill of non mess believing women. They forget that the Bible says we should not use foul and abusive language and we should let everything we say be good and helpful so our words will be encouraging to those who hear them. Who was WMB encouraging by calling women dogs and so on?
Exactly!! He would rant and rave over and over against women and then say in this syrup sweet pretend vouce, Now I'm not talking about yoy, my dear sisters. Like that makes it ok??? Any woman who is in this cult is in a male supremacy cult and it is no different than black people being in a white supremacy cult, which also happens in this rotten cult. The fact that I joined this and stayed in it for 28 years is something I have a hard time not being angry at myself about. I have to work on having grace towards myself, knowing that I gave this loathsome thing almost half my life!! Years I will never get back!!!!
If a person loves a group of people, do they struggle with the urge to shoot them and say that those people aren't worth the bullet it would take to kill us? It s that a loving thing to say it feel or think? No. That is hate speech.
Do you ever have the urge to kill someone you love, really kill them? I don't. I'm not going by what people say or don't say. I'm going by what WMB preached. You have to lie to tell me he did not preach every single thing that I said he preached. And I didn't learn those things from John, I learned them from listening to the taoes.
My father once confided in a close friend that he was molested by William B at Yakima, WA in 1960. He refuses to speak about it and I cannot confirm anything other than the dates and that he and William B. were at the same place. My father would have been 14 at the time.
@@pristineclear8604and OJ Simpson is definitely innocent, right? Hearsay evidence aside, it’s not becoming of someone professing to be the voice of God to have so many colorful associations and questionable and vague recordings of his own. Whether or not someone is found guilty in a court of law, WMB, and those accessories, could not hide the truth from God. Even if they took it to their graves, the truth is still the truth. Honestly, your trolling makes me question my appreciation for the 1st Amendment.
I’m disappointed but at the same time not shocked about this information of WMB. I’m glad you encouraged us listeners to decide what to do with this information and make up our own mind.
@13:00 The thing about anti-homosexuality laws is the only way to enforce them is to catch someone in the act. This makes private acts of homosexuality nearly impossible to prosecute. The only way to catch someone in the act was for them to have sex in a public place. I believe (I hope) most people would be in favor of any law that prohibited public lewd acts and indecent exposure, whether homosexual or not. So it's not like homosexuals were unfairly targeted, it's that they are the group of people most likely to engage in such behavior.
I'd like to add that I don't understand the focus being on the hypocrisy. Is not the actual act of 1) homosexual liaisons 2) with church members 3) who are married, 4) and hiding it and denying it, etc... a far greater sin than telling others not to do such things? Wouldn't you rather a loved one who was a drug addict stop doing drugs than stop warning others that they shouldn't do drugs?
Can a mess believer explain to us why WMB went to these places and was chum chum with men he told his followers not to associate with? I’m sure they have an answer to clear the air.
I think sometimes because of community guidelines, TH-cam will delete some comments. It says 3 responses but I can only 2 before I typed the is comment. It will go up to 4 but I can’t see the 4th comment.
I've never understood why homosexuality is supposednto be this sin that is so much worse than any other sin. Why? Sin is sin. Gossip is sin. Haven't we all done that? Haven't we all lied? None of us are anything but sinners! Some of us are saved by grace. God did that, we didn't do that. We are no better than any gay person or any other people or commit sin. And some people won't be around gay people? If you refuse to be around gay people, who is going to tell them about God's word? How can you show gay people God's love when you hate them so much that you refuse to be around them????
Thank you so much for this comment. God bless you mightily. TH-cam deleted a comment I wrote similar to this but I’m glad yours is here because we as Christians need to stop this sin-grading system.
That's right!! There is a person on here who said they won't be around gay people, that sin is sin. I called them on it and now they are saying they will be around gay people but won't be friends with them or encourage them to be gay. You can be friends with someone and not agree with everything they do! What happened to being salt and light, like Jesus told his followers to be? Its pretty hard to do that alone with your self righteousness in a cave so you don't have to be around a certain category of sinners.
Leslie, that’s how a lot of cult people behave. What they don’t realise is they are operating in fear and are therefore not of sound minds. How are we supposed to evangelise the world by avoiding them? How is the world going to see Christ if we don’t show them Christ?
@@EnlighteningTopics Yep, exactly!!! It's totally impossible to not be around sinners, since we all sin. To pick one group of sinners to ostracise is so wrong! And like you said, how is the world going to know about Christ? He said to be salt and light and not to hide the light under a bushel. That is exactly what people like that are doing!
Brother Branham did not do all the Tommy rot you are saying here, you will reap what you are sowing. I hope you will have nerve enough to stand it when harvesting time comes. The two guys doing this must be filled with an evil spirit. I am interested in seeing their ends. It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomora than for these two guys. Praise God for Brother Branham.
No please be careful my sister. These 2 guys don't love you. They are deceivers. Trust me. If I was a lier, God would strike me down. Soon you will find out that I was right. Stay on the truth. Stay clear of people like this. They are roaring lions in sheep's clothing. Don't trust anyone. Not even me. Go to the Word and find out for yourself. I pray that Jesus will show you the truth as well. No disrespect meant. Really. I don't know you. But I really care. Love and blessings to you and your family.
Great episode. Sodomy is a means by which men can control other men. In many cultures the dominance aspect is tolerated, even where sodomy is forbidden. So, Branham, who operated a cult was all about controlling the membership may well have specifically used sodomy as a control mechanism within the cult.
There’s the control but maybe he also liked the lifestyle. Him and his once good friend Jones. All birds of the same feathers flocking together, doing similar things.
In a lot of cultures from the past and some in the present, men rape men and they say they turn them into women. And in the eyes of those people, wonder men are weak and subservient and lesser than. I think I just described what WMB said about women. How interesting.
I had this theory when I first left the Message in the 00s. I don't want to feed into homophobic stereotypes that gay men are misogynistic, but it does happen sometimes, and I've always wondered if he was gay and if that had anything to do with his absolute vitriol towards women.
Thank you for this video. Keep up the good work! Isa 54:17 - 'Every weapon formed against you will fail, and you will condemn every tongue that rises up to judge you. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord. Their righteousness is from me, declares the Lord.'
Could this explain why men sat separately from women in mess churches? Could it be that WMB was projecting his ways to his followers without them even realising?
John do you think WMB was trying to turn your grandpa and that’s why grandma was upset? I feel so sad now. Sleeping in the hay? Oh Lord have mercy on us. I’m almost in tears
I'm sorry this is so upsetting. The thing about WMB that upsets me the most is his hatred of women and his encouragment to abuse daughters. That gets me seeing red really fast!
Leslie I was very upset. What I don’t like about people is how they like to bring everyone into their mess. I don’t like that at all. Only God knows if this event led to problems in their marriage. I was very unhappy yesterday. I know most of these people are probably gone but it’s still wrong.
Yes, I do understand. The self righteousness and prejudice in some of these comments does bother me. We each have something that bothers us more than other things.
Yes, it is a tough subject, but we have had so much shoved down our throats by the "Men" of the Message. It is so time to speak OUR truth! There's a reason why men like Leo Mercier were placed in positions of control and power. I'm just sorry some of this wasn't heard while they were alive to know they were outed!
All I know is that there will be a bride of Jesus ,the Bible says that Satan will deceive all and almost to deceive the elect but the elect can never be deceived.
this has been so triggering for me on so many levels that I need to shut my mind down. I will (as I always do) re watch this tomorrow with a fresh mind, take more notes and then, but only then, if I feel it is in the right spirit and might be of use to civil dialogue, comment further. My next move is to chill out and listen to great music starting with Pachelbel 's Canon in D and move on to all my 'faves' which help my mind unwind.
Really? I didn’t even know I got it from WMB. Pristine, why are you insisting on being something you’re not? You’re not a mind reader so stop assuming almost everything. It’s ok to disagree but please apply some reasoning.
If only that were true...the Bible doesn't speak about that. It says we're all sinners, born into sin, and need a Saviour to save us from God's perfect wrath and judgement. He calls us to Him through Jesus, the perfect, sinless sacrifice, who took on Himself all our sin, so God will not see our sin. He sees His Son who died in our place, when we were the ones who should die and be eternally separated from God. I'm humbled by God's sovereignty and so blessed to be His child! Blessings to you! 😊
Abstinence for married people? I wonder if Leo ever heard of this man named Paul who wrote a big portion of the New Testament? Didn't Paul said to come together often except for a period of prayer and fasting? Isn't it easy to say WMB didn't know all this stuff, at least in between saying WMB knew the secrets of men's hearts and had a great gift of discernment.
Leslie this shouldn’t surprise us at all. Remember in the mess, they teach that sex was originally created by God for only for procreation. They add that the only reason we use to for both procreation and pleasure is because we are in our fallen state.
Personally, this is an animalistic way of viewing sex. Animals use it sole for procreation but we are not animals we are human beings. We form bonds, we build, we reason, we feel, we invent, we are higher than animals. There’s more to us than just procreation.
It sounds like rather controlling behavior... to micromanage people's private life that way. I get it, when they oust promiscuity... But why should a married couple be abstinent?
Pristine what under God’s sun is wrong with you? Who told you I’m a man? I asked you once and I’m going to ask you again. Do we have a problem? If so what is it?
Metapolitik, yes it is controlling behaviour but you won’t see it that way if you’re in there. The whole idea is you don’t want to behave like man in the fallen state. So you abstain if you’re not thinking procreation. That’s the whole idea.
'God said hire, God said you can't fire.' (not consistent with Scripture)
1 Corinthians 5:11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-not even to eat with such a one. 12b Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13b Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.
1 Corinthians 15:33 Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts good morals.”
2 Corinthians 6:13-15 Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
Lee Vayle - 1997-1004: “ Now, where did Leo and Gene and all those guys get that? Now they were a couple of perverts, so if you’re miserably perverted physically, I’ve got an idea your spirit ain’t too hot either, because the Bible said, “Such were some of you, but now you’re clean.” They were around Bro. Branham and never got rid of their homosexual spirit. They’re both dead now, and I can say what I want of course and not be liable, but the point is, I’m not liable in telling anybody dirty stories. I’m telling you the truth. WHEN BRO. BRANHAM TOLD ME WHAT THEY WERE, I thought he was just, you know, being as rotten as I am, using a bad name about people. Positive truth. An absolute mess. If you don’t believe that, you talk to Leo’s wife, who’s still living. Now those guys were an absolute mess, and the people around them. But there was no eighth vision. And this is what came out of the vision book.”
Lee Vayle - 2000-0206: “And at that particular time even Bro. Branham himself was involved with homosexuals on the ground that Leo and Gene, the tape boys, were homosexual. And when he wanted to fire them, GOD SAID, “YOU CAN’T FIRE THEM; LEAVE THEM ALONE.” And I saw the vision book where it was written-“Leave them alone. They will go into false doctrine and destroy themselves.” Now listen, homosexuality going to false doctrine destroying themselves. Here’s the Bible, did I read it any different from the Bible? So I’ve been telling you the truth.”
Lee Vayle: 2000-0701: “I believe it was about 1956 and no later, that Leo and Gene, Leo Mercier and Gene Goad, GOD TOLD BRO. BRANHAM TO HIRE THEM, TWO HOMOSEXUALS.”
Ed Byskal (sp?) used to go on hunting trips with Branham, didn't he? I wonder if he knew about any of this. His daughter raped a child and the church ended up splitting over it. A lot of people claimed it was consensual but children cannot consent, so it was rape. Before that happened, I did house cleaning for him a few times and was stunned by how luxurious his house was
I'm shocked at your statement I don't care what her sin was.are you sinless to publish someone else's sins.what has Ed's house got to do with me or the public.
Doesn't matter who I am you publishing people's personal life on social media like yours is a perfect one.if God saved you and forgave you what right do you have to cast stones I'm in south Africa who don't want your dirty mind
@@johngeyer8280 "publish", as though I'm the first person to talk about this lol if you go to the website of the people whose channel you are on, william branham historical research, you will see they have already covered what I'm talking about. This is already public information, not something new. very telling that the first thing you said was that you don't care a child was raped. that says a lot about you. you do know that raping children is against the law and covering it up makes you an accomplice, right? they should both be in jail. you should be on a watchlist, bc churches covering up crimes and sexual abuse is EXACTLY THE PROBLEM. YOU are PART OF THE PROBLEM. Funny how the message constantly talks about how evil the catholic church is while yall are doing the same exact thing. It's sickening. Seek help.
I am presently reading, "Preacher Behind The White Hoods. It seems very likely that homosexuality was prevalent among them. Mr. John Collins, why did you not include any pictures in this book along with the references?
Look at the times we are in,sex is everywhere,one wrong click on the internet and it could come up with bad images,porn and many other bad things.It was not like this when i was a kid.It is a very hard time for young people.
@@pristineclear8604 I saw you followed the Podcast. You yourself will Testify that it's the HOTTEST so Far. Kindly remember to ask your Pastor the HARD QUESTIONS
Why did Branham flaunt the rules? Leaders do that just because they can. It's a demonstration of power ... to flagrantly lie, to establish the norms for behavior that all must follow, and break all the rules. "I'll piss on your back and tell you it's raining, and you'll believe me." Branham did it for the lulz.
Every cult leader I've ever heard of is a hypocrite. They have one set of rules for their follower and a totally different set for themselves. Why should WMB be any different? Maybe this explains why there were never any scandals involving WMB and women. There were about money, that's for sure.
Yes, noticed this as well... There is a propensity of those that are in (worldly) power to show that the rules don't apply to themselves, often by innuendo. But there is also more blatant things they do. Perhaps to be controversial. I sense they may use controversy in their favor. It gives them more power. But the thing is of course that they either never had the gospel or left it afterward in acts of over-confidence in themselves.
@@lesliewells1062 At least this seems to a general issue there. Although in mini-cults it may be more about the 'ego of the leader' that needs to be polished. They want the respect of the followers and esteem... So they also will work out those that don't agree with the leadership... This isn't limited to religion of course, many other environments like business, politics, social settings can be the same. There is something of narcissism in this. And I've seen non-reg. organizations that were wrecked that way. After a while the 'leadership' becomes unbearable for people so people drop out or cease active membership... And younger folks, may loose interest, especially when they are shunned by the older members (doesn't have to be official shunning). Concerning the homosexuality of cult leaders or in cults I wonder, if this relates to the idolatry that takes place in them... I'm thinking of course of Romans 1 here.
Well....Im from Louisville, KY but my dad grew up across the bridge in Jeffersonville. He grew up on the same street, within view of the Branham Tabernacle. We were always warned to stay away from the church because they were a cult and had very strange beliefs. In the late 1990s after Roberts Liardon's "God's Generals" videos came out, I was surprised when it showed the Branham Tabernacle. I had never heard of Branham until then, but recognized the church because I seen it every weekend up until my grandmother passed in 1989 when I was 18 years old. Well anyway, I showed the video to my dad and asked him if he had ever met him. He said that he had not, as he was still a child in those years, but he remembered that his brother (7 years older) and the other boys in the neighborhood who was his brother's age had all said it was common knowledge, that if any of them ever needed to make an easy couple of bucks, all they had to do was catch Branham when he was in his office at the church, and go see him for 20 minutes or so. I know it sounds crazy, but I guess I was naive, because it didn't catch in my head what he was saying. So I said "They did odd jobs for him? So my dad point blank told me, that from what he remembered, his brother said that Branham was definitely married to a woman, but he also had a thing for performing oral sex on younger guys, between ages of 16 and early twenties. And that he preferred the poorer guys, the dirtier and smellier the better. He also said that his brother said that Branham had pretty righteous body odor himself, so I dunno. Anyway, that's all I remember. As small as Jeffersonville is, that this story never broke and became a controversy. But, from what my dad said, it didn't seem to bother his brother and his friends, they talked about it like it was a joke. And that 2 bucks was a lot of money in the 1940s.
This is literally everything I remember, and they are all passed away now. I never had the chance to ask my uncle, as we had moved to Oklahoma in the 1990s. We were attending Rhema Bible Church (Kenneth Hagin) and Roberts Liardon was a frequent guest speaker there. My uncle passed in 2001 so I never got to see him in person again after my dad told this story. I don't know if my uncle ever took Branham up on it, but the way my dad said that he made the emphasis about how bad Branham stunk, like he has been close enough to smell him. Also, the way he said "2 bucks was alot of money back then" My family was clean though. They were poor, but my grandmother was a stickler about hygiene. And she splurged and bought them all deodorant, even though hardly anyone wore it back then because it was so expensive. So that part doesn't add up to it. But my dad said most of the guys in the neighborhood were poorer and wore the same clothes over and over again. So maybe my uncle just knew from them. Or maybe none of them actually did it, because he said they all always talked about it like it was a big joke. But.....something had to have happened to someone, because back then, people respected ministers and didn't make jokes about them
@@lesliewells1062 Yep I saw that one afterwards. I would have been punished VERY heavily for doing that, but apparently ol' Billy Boy gets away with it scot-free. Plus the fact that his friend got arrested for homosexual acts on one of their trips..
@@dannyboi_663 I know. I wonder if there was anything he didn't get away with. Even when the IRS sued him and he lost, he wasn't put in jail and he never paid them the money before he died. It would be interesting to know if his estate paid that off. I think you have to do that, legally.
@@dannyboi_663 You're probably right! I mean, when he said, we need a plane, they bought a plane. When he said we should do this or that, someone always bankrolled it. As WMB continued his act of being poor and humble. We know how humble he was and how poor he was, NOT AT ALL!!!!!
EXCELLENT expose. You really set a standard for presenting "a matter" to believers concerning sin in the camp. Sadly too many professing Christians fail to understand the standards that Jesus sets for those who claim to follow Him. Absolutely we must keep the fellowship pure, as Paul was faced with the case of a man sleeping with that man's father's wife. Paul rightly declared that that man must be put out of the fellowship. Fellowshipping with unbelief leave alone blatantly defended sin is dangerous for those believers back in Paul's day and believers today who refuse to subject Branham to the test that Jesus commands us to use. Continuing to believe in leave alone ascribe to the claims of and teachings of William Branham is extremely dangerous for those who truly want to follow Jesus. I strongly urge any who have come to this video to ask the Holy Spirit to show you personally if the facts presented here are true. Continuing in the teachings of Branham or following him or his underlings is extremely dangerous, as pointed out clearly in this video. Thank you John and Charles for your careful, sensitively yet truthfully, well-documented reports concerning a man who was nothing short of a wolf in sheep's clothing. Shame on those men who refuse to acknowledge what they know for the sake of promoting a man who they honor more than they honor Jesus Himself. Woe to those who attack you for spreading the Truth, what which Jesus said that He wants us to KNOW and to free us thereby. The Lord bless you both as you continue in this important work from the Lord.
I keep asking a question and nobody is interested in answering at all...... WHAT OF BRO. MELVIN? WHAT BECOME OF HIM. He was the pastor at the branham tabernacle.
I hate labels. Phobia means having a fear. I have no fear we just don't want to be associated with it. However, Jesus went among sinners to try to help them and got falsely accused.
Thank you for trying to use careful language, and recognising homosexuality is not a choice. For a gay man or woman the straight sexual attraction is as alien to them as homosexuals attraction is for you. You say leave it to the pastors but you still see it as a sin. I appreciate your journey from aversion to individuals, and previously about your journey on racism. I had to make my own journey too. Learning about the context in Bible times with power play and often abusive use of male with male sexual acts (with very clear dominant and recipient roles, based on making someone as if female when women were seen as lesser) challenged my thinking. And that Luther translated one of the key verses as the German for abuse of a male child. Then I looked at the lives of faithfully monogamous same sex relationships, some up to 60 yrs together. I found that I could not deny anyone the option to have such a loving partnership. I had been brought up to be wary of 'the gay lifestyle' which was seen as extremely promiscuous. I still reject that in straight or gay contexts. But a life of love, within a commited relationship. I cannot see that condemned in the Bible. Shrine male prostitution yes, abusive, dominant actions yes, going against your nature yes (to me that inc gays getting into straight marriages against their nature and both partners suffer that mismatch) But life long committed relationships based on love, no I cannot see that condemned..
Being around someone who might be attracted to you does not mean that they will want or try to have sex with you. If you son and this friend are at the same school the locker room is more physically revealing than a sleepover. Maybe as someone who has never felt sexual attraction (Paul's ref to the gift of celibacy?) I am naive in this, but from what I observe people are often attracted to someone without hitting on them in any way. Sometimes it is nerves, sometimes because the attraction is inappropriate ie the other person is already married, or has a different sexuality. People handle this all the time, every day. When we reach the stage of worrying about same sex friendships and also mixed sex friendships, then we can isolate children from almost any possible deep friendships.
Thank you for this. Your comment was very well written and also tactfully stated. I have a handful friends who are gay, and I am no longer homophobic. I have never leaned that way, and outside of how they explain it, really have no point of reference. They are in a much different category, however, than the sexual predator(s) in Branham’s inner circle who were gay. We did our best to explain that, but I suppose it required listening to the previous few episodes. The point of this episode was to explain the hypocrisy, which we hopefully achieved.
That happened in my family. My sister and her best friend were so close that the other little girl's parents didn't like it for that reason and tried to keep them apart. A case of monumental ignorance!!!
You cannot blame homosexuality on Brother Branham, he preached against it. It’s very clear in the message besides wasn’t Judas in the same church as Jesus.
Thank you for this informative documentary, I have wondered about William Branham being homosexual because of the horrific things he said about women. Also his close association with Paul Cain. Just like Ernest Angley was found out to be homosexual actually admitted having homosexual affairs with men.
As they all went by the King James version, it says in Genesis 24:2 - And Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh. NOT GROIN. OR LOINS. Talk about changing scripture to suit an agenda. 😮
@@Charles-Paisley Hello Charles, I was just thinking about you. I have had to take a break from the Podcasts. I found I was getting angry. I truly appreciate you, that you have given so much time, expense, to find out the truth. So very glad that you are now a minister of the true gospel. May God bless you, and all your loved ones.
@@dannyboi_663 Amen!!! It is hard to get out, even for me who never had any family in this thing. It's such a shame about what some families do to their children and other relatives who leave this cult. I hate that for people!
I know this isn't true in every case, but really living these teachings of WMB is a recipe for a terrible marriage. I know mine was and I'm not the only one!
Please! to an afircan, holding another man like Braham held your grand father @ -38:48 has no sexual connotation at all. To a true African, this is just a sign of a sincere love with nothing profane at the back of one's mind and it will have been the same in the time of Christ. This confirms that Jesus christ was indeed black personality and an African. This is just like the love that exist between a father and son. Look at all these tribal people living in some of the remote parts of the world, who walk around naked e.g the inhabitants of the amazon forest. You don't see them jumping even their women aimlessly although they have no cloth on, let alone their men. And in a society like that, your life is at stake, if you show sexual interest to a person of the same sex.
The disciple and apostle John, the very apostle of love laid his head on the bossom of Jesus at the feast tables. If Jesus lived today in human flesh and a follower did that, they both would have been labelled as homosexual.
It's really funny that you pick that one little thing that you think is similar to something Jesus did to address and ignored the other 98% of the content.
John laying his head in Jesus refers only to the way in which they were seated at the table during the Passover feast/Last supper. That is all. They reclined on their left arm and leaned back as if leaning on the person behind them.
Obee, I so glad you explained this so we can all understand. This is how should approach mess believers, use the Word. They’re so focused on WMB, they diminish the Word of God.
This is very interesting and hilarious! He’s my great uncle and never had the opportunity to meet him as he died 5 years before I was born. I’m from the Branham side of the family that is agnostic/atheist. This shit blows my mind! Hard to believe he and his “prophecies” and whatnot are still being discussed! It seems he traveled the world spreading lies and making money…the American dream!
If you tap on the screen a little settings icon will show up and you can turn on captions. I only have the option of English captions, but depending on where you are, you might have French captions available.
Who introduced how you greet the men in this cult buy hugging and only shaking the woman's hands? Could this be a link? Thank you bro John and Charles for another fascinating episode
Its totally unchristian to bad mouth another christian and accuse deaceased on wild assumptions. Thats totally against scripture and surely not blessed Lol
God is merciful! If a homosexual repents God will forgive, renew and restore them. Nobody is writing them off,but we shouldn't entertain them because the world wants to normalize it
The world is trying to normalize it because it's normal variant of sexual behavior. A person who is gay can no more change that than someone who is heterosexual and it sounds like you believe that God created ALL of us. Did God make a mistake? Left handed people used to be demonized too. We got over that one - we can get over this one.
I would be careful about what terms you use in this context. I see "homofobic" as a derogatory term for people who are against homosexuality. I would never use that term about myself or anyone else who is against homosexuality.
Yeah, that is a really loaded term. I would not use that term to describe the average Christian position on the issue either. I think the message though generally has a far more hostile position than average Christianity. It's one thing identify sin and point people to Christ, and help them to overcome. It's another thing to just cast people into the pit of hell without hope, and essentially give up on them. And the message tends toward the latter unfortunately.
@@pristineclear8604 William Branham is dead. He's already getting whatever his reward is. That's not particularly relevant to me. It's interesting how you are such a hypocrite. It's really beautiful out today though, isn't it? I love the spring day here in Jeffersonville. Say hi to everyone at voice of God for me! I praying for you all.
@@pristineclear8604 This person does not work for voice of God. Pristine is a make-believer. What do you mean you're not a hypocrite? You MTV make believer. Do you see the reproach that you were bringing on the message? When are you going to stop listening to this blasphemy. They're painting us all to be make believers like you.
@@pristineclear8604 Hahaha. Even fake Billy Paul knows you are a hypocrite! That's hilarious. Come on pristine, why not take a second to try and answer one of the questions that was asked in this episode? There were some real zingers! Want to explain why William Branham was camping with those guys? And how he can get away with that but not other people in the message? And how can it be that John is a bad guy for saying what he said about homosexuals, but will him Branham is a good guy for doing the same thing! That is hilarious. You don't make any sense.
Yes, exactly!! We are all sinners!! A practicing gay person is not anymore a sinner than someone who gossip or lues or does any other sin. I've never understood why homosexuality is singled out as the horrible thing and the people who do it are these abhorrent creatures. No, we are all sinners.
@@eagleeyes6642 ugh.....prophet of the last ladocian age, the man the myth, the self proclaim profiteer, the greatest salesman of the decade (way back, I mean way back) the one and only returning S.O.M...branham.
@@muppetonmeds Nope. However, Branham said shorts are women's underclothes, and then wore them above the knee himself, as you can see in Carlos's profile picture. Make of that what you will. I wear shorts all the time, like a normal person, but unlike Branham, I'm not a hypocrite about it.
@@muppetonmeds Sorry, but that isn't allowed on this platform. You'll have to find it yourself, but it isn't that hard. It's the one in front of a hut.
You don't have to be a preacher to says whether homosexuality is right or wrong John, we are all called to declare the truth of the word of God, but I know that if you did you would be in a whole world of trouble from people.
Brother Branham was not homosexual . The Angel of the Lord told never to drink, smoke and defile his body because God had something for him in adult stage. You must be devil possessed.
2 Timothy 3 1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
You want an explanation. Here it is. In the past there were zones of permitted affectional, physical and at times sexual and parasexual contact. Things were a lot more relaxed about this back then. It was a specifically carved out space where more fluidity was allowed. There may well have been a degree of hypocrisy that deepened over time. PS One of the best exemplifications of this is Brokeback Mountain if you want a reference and a way of understanding the phenomenon.
Christians,pastors,BELIEVERS,and specially of the message, are supposed to be repenting for the sin of CHURCH like Ezra,Denial of the bible especially when sin is found within. Representatives like pastors,office bearers must cry out against any form of sin out of their pulpits like the prophets or like wm Brenham. The problem is not people,it's us pastors, we have compromised with the word.I'm even suprised to see these brothers laughing when presenting this evil sin.Museven is even better than many of these on pulpits
One thing that I've learned is that both of you coming from the message reminds me of the 70 minister's that left the lord.Thank God for this message and for brother Branham who I never saw in the flesh but man I see God's blessings and respect and revelation all over this message.youll far too late to convince this Bride otherwise
You might have heard about the story of wolf and grapes 🍇 wolf tried to grasp some grapes from the height vine, jumped many more times but didn't get not even one sweet grape finally disappointed wolf said the the grapes is sour that's what happened in this so called ministers didn't get anything from the messages, it is not ordained for them, they are ordained for the damnation for damaging the the purest Message of the hour
Can you really quote to me where WMB preached homosexuality as a virtual. ELSE you want the Bride to converse with you as you did it in the garden of Eden and minister doubts in Gods revealed truths which He gave the Bride through prophet WMB.
It's unbelievable. Isn't it! My whole life I spent in this message, and I even knew Leo was a homosexual. But it's like your mind never puts it together. I feel so dumb having overlooked that my entire life. How can William Branham justify any of this? It is so disturbing!
Yes, sin is sin. And we're all sinners. Some of us are saved by grace. You don't have to compromise to be around gay people anymore than you have to compromise to be around people who gossip, people who lie, etc. Do you separate yourself from all sinners or just gay people? If you so separate yourself from all sinners, that means you are a hermit and refuse to be around anyone. After you move into your cave on the too of a mountain to get away from all the sinners, what do you do about the fact that the person living in the cave is a sinner too?
@@lesliewells1062 we are all sinners saved by grace, and some of us by grace continuously renew our minds not to engage in gossip lies fornication etc. If you want to associate with gays I haven't stopped you and it doesn't make homosexuality right. I keep emphasizing on the fact that we must yearn for the holy spirit. If we all have the holy spirit we won't be in this mess trying to deal with people are born male but think they are female vice versa! Yes I'll rather be alone than to be around homosexuals if you are offended sorry
Garrison Keillor once said; we shouldn't be surprised when we find that those preachers who preach most vociferously against a particular sin, are actually themselves deeply ensnared by that particular sin.
Keillor said, it isn't so much that they are ypocrites, but that they are so burdened and guilt ridden by their sin, that they are actually preaching to themselves when they rant against the very activity that they are involved in.
They certainly chose an odd profession to preach against what they were doing. But the Bible talks about people like that. Talks about people who will tell Jesus about all the stuff they did and His response will be ‘I never knew you’.
Such hypocrisy from Branham and those pastors! This is DISGUSTING. I just put the word HOMOSEXUALS in the Voice of God Recordings table and there were 35 citations of Branham condemning homosexuals as perverts and he sleeping with them and surrounding himself with them! THIS MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL WITH ANGER, for I´m gay and I suffered when I was in the message for that!
That's a lie, my brother. Any video of Branham tells you he was the most honest man who ever lived. Do your research
@@vitumbikomakuwa10so where is your proof of that ?
I'm gay also and was raised in a cult like this, and they ruined my life. Soooo many preachers and workers in the church are doing the same thing 😢
When I saw a past video of one the Vinyard Meetin 3:05 gs with John Wimber and on that video he was encouraging the men in not being ashamed to show their love for all. Which means not being ashamed of expressing their affections openly towards other men, not just women, it raised alarm bells. To how they were being encouraged to love your neighbour as yourself. And of course the one that was being encouraged into that, was very good looking, like a model, young. It was just a NO that rose up in me, I just knew it was questionable. This is the moment, I saw and learnt, and God was giving a witness, how sensuality through pleasure was getting into the church. God was warning about it, and the USA church didn't listen, I was grateful I was shown and could keep my family away from it. Had you just listened.
For people who left the message I hope that you have not stop believing in God and have found yourselves the right church that is fit for you and for the season that you are in.
sending you many blessings ❤ I know how hard it must be finding out that you were brought up in a lie may that experience makes you want to draw even nearer to the true living God our Lord and savior Jesus Christ ❤
❤
This is so caring ❤
That's nonsense. People who believe in God WILL leave the message. You can't worship God and a false prophet. Once you're free from the message you can enjoy your Christian life without a yelling, blasphemous false teacher
What does one expect from a heretical cult. Surprised but not.
When one adds the Cloud discrepancies, WMB's connection to convicted murderer Leslie Douglas Ashley (the homosexual transvestite) and the fact that instead of going on a honeymoon or even staying with his sick wife, he went to Pawpaw Lake with men for another hunting trip, the plot thickens even more....
It sure does!!
Thank you so much for having the courage to make this V I D E O!
When I read The Serpent's Tail, I did think Leo was forcing all these straight men to engage in homosexual acts as a way of humiliating and controlling them.
It seems that preachers who constantly harp on a topic, like homosexuality, or pornography, or adultery, or food addiction, are the very ones struggling with that particular thing.
This comment needs to be pinned.
Yes, exactly!!
He mentioned UT many times, and he said hate speech against women all the time.
"me thinketh, thy preacher protesteth too much!" TH-cam is full of these holier than thou ' Christian celebrities ' whose main drive is too ' sell books, increase their 'likes' and get more $$$$. Matthew 6:1 "Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in Heaven.....that your charitable deed may be done in secret and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly". Be very careful as to your motives when you put up a video, God sees the root motive before you do!
Yep,preachers are just men, after all. We must never forget that fact, and use our brains❤
It's not surprising that a percentage of message members are gay because most members are born into this cult. They didn't ask to join it and they will very possibly lose all their family and friends if they leave. If a person is not willing to pay that price, they could easily stay in the cult even though they are gay.
What, Pristine? Most people in this cult were born into. Me and you are the unusual ones, we weren't. Do you want to lose your whole family and all your friends? I don't. But that's what happens to lots of people born into this cult who leave it.
Also Leslie the mess in particular tends to produce a lot of socially awkward people. So this lifestyle will get worse in their fellowship. They are so fearful of sex, so they assume the slightest move would lead them down that path. As I mentioned in one comment the men sat separately from the women, the men couldn’t hug the women and vice versa. All of this because of fear.
I know, you stick out like a sore thumb. That happened to me when I left the cult and went to school and started working in a hospital. People were talking about so many things and I didn't know what those those things were. Everything from friends with benefits to lots of different movies and singers to honey boo boo. I thought it was a toy, but no, she's a little girl. I always said, what is that? And I got the answer, you've never heard of a booty call? No, actually, I had never heard that phrase until I heard it that day at work. And I haven't heard since I stopped working there, I'm glad to say.
Leslie it was the same for me😂. My colleagues would say ‘My goodness! Have you lived?’ When I would ask ‘oh what’s that?’ Eventually I stopped asking because I felt embarrassed. Even going to the cinema was a problem for me. Oh well, never mind. 😅
@@EnlighteningTopics I know exactly what you mean!! I call the 80s and 90s my cultural blackhole.
The enigmatic conundrum persists. While the researchers cannot claim absolute certainty in unraveling the truth, one cannot help but notice the flurry of activity and involvement that raises eyebrows and justifiably triggers suspicion. It's like stumbling upon a puzzle with missing pieces, yet the pieces that are in place paint a rather intriguing picture. After all, where there is smoke, there's usually a disgruntled pyromaniac trying to juggle flaming batons of secrecy and deception.
I love what you said about who is causing the smoke!! So very true!!
Clearly there is a deep hypocrisy that was going on. Even if an open secret to many. He chose how often to preach on homosexuality rather than other topics. It was not a time to safely be open about same sex attraction, in the wider community, much less the church. I tend to agree having heard and now read about Leo Mercer, that he enabled behaviour in that community that was coercive, manipulating people into acts that they would not otherwise have been inclined to.
Thank you for this episode.
The first he in the comment you are agreeing to is referring to WMB.
Yes, exactly!
😨🤯
Thank you for having the courage to share this information with us. And thank you for saying you'll leave it up to us to make up our own minds what to do with the evidence. I have a lot of respect for that.
Me too!
I knew this video would have more comments than any other video.
My brother in law and his wife and 4 kids(young kids)have been in this cult for almost 20 years, I’ve watched almost all of these videos and have a lot of info but please give me an idea of how to present this information to him so I can help him. Thank you
I just came out, and my wife and daughters are still in it along with most of my family and friends
Rod Bergen from Believe the sign recommend going to your spouse and asking them to investigate with you .
That seems like a good idea to me that’s not what I did and my wife does not believe me.
So the idea of drawing someone into doing their own investigation seems valuable.
Unfortunately, a lot of the preachers are taking a very hard stance against “ the critics “
I am still arguing with an confronting some of my old preacher friends
And I am actively reaching out to my family and friends within the message
If you would like me to try to get in touch with your relatives, I would be happy to, especially if they are someone that I have met.
One other idea a little crazy, but might work is you could pose as if you were interested in joining the message but had questions and ask them to help you investigate your questions .
🙏🏻
@@mattleitner5194 thank you, and I’m glad you came out of that bondage. Quick question, how did you come out? What encouraged or moved you to do it? Thanks
So one thing that I can think of was reading or listening to a book from Philip Yancey titled
where is God when it hurts
This addresses one of the great questions that mankind has, and some of the author’s ideas and experiences that he shared, helped me realize I was in an extremist group and helped me prepare to move back towards normal Christianity.
Another book that I read before I came out, was through the needles eye by David servant, a.k.a. Kirkwood
, this is also a great Christian book
These resources would be very non-confrontational as they do not mention Branham at all I think they helped me see some of the inconsistencies within “the message.” Realizing that there are real Christians outside of the message helped me be willing to look at the problems with Branham.
I have tried the direct confrontation approach with many of my family and friends within the message, and it does not seem to work very well
It seems like a person needs to start thinking for themselves. Anything that would encourage them to think for themselves would be valuable.
Many of the leaders in the message are fighting against this (discouraging people from careful thinking).
Thanks for asking!
God bless both of you for standing up for the truth. I know it’s not easy, but my hats off to the both of you! This channel is a blessing!
Amen!!!
If a straight message believer was invited on a hunting trip or any trip by the man they believe is either Elijah or God, I can definitely see why they would want to be there, whether the other people on the trip were openly gay or not.
@@pristineclear8604 I have no idea what you are talking about. Anyone who believes WMB was God, was Elijah, or was an even a slightly good, moral person is very sadly deceived.
The comment was about why people would want to go on a hunting trip with WMB. They were brainwashed into believing WMB was Elijah or God. You know I don't believe he was anything but an evil man.
Yes Leslie. They trusted him. This clearly is what is still happening. Mess believers honestly trust and believe everything WMB said on his tapes. So imagine how these men felt when they were in his presence. They were honoured. So even if he did and or made them do things, they wouldn’t even see it as sinful. All reason goes out of your head when you so much value on human beings and not on God our Creator.
So true!! The betrayal is monumental! All these people, including millions of people even now, and he betrayed every single one of us.
Pristine, nobody has told you to go anywhere in the first place. As a matter of fact, the more you comment the better because the video will get recommended more. How do you think this video has been able to garner this amount of views within this short space of time?
Wow! So there were rumours even when he was alive? I can assure you majority of mess churches absolutely do not know this! This is breaking news for me.
I never knew about it when I was in the cult, just like so much I've learned from John and Charles.
Leslie you are right. John and Charles have done very well. They have given so much information and in good chronological order so it’s easy to follow. Some things we wouldn’t know and that’s expected like most historical events. I’m glad they’re here on TH-cam.
Me too!!
In regards to William Branham taking his inner circle to the Pagal and then openly flaunting it, did he think he was able to get away with it without someone finding out later?
That's the part that is so crazy!! He flaunted it and didn't try to hide it!!
There's evidence that he went to the Pigalle. Do people who can't stand looking at lions go to a big cat park?
Maybe because some of them in the circle lived that life, he felt comfortable and didn’t think they would expose him. Also remember WMB had a very sharp tongue and it could be that they were scared he would obliterate them if they tried to tell on him 😂. I mean look at how he spoke of Billy Graham. I never even heard Billy Graham mention his name.
Very goid point, but WMB said he went to that place on tape!! That's the crazy part! He exposed himself! It's Luke he could say anything ad we all just sit there nodding our heads, saying amen! I don't know why I did that, other than mind control. That's the only explanation I can thunk of.
@@pristineclear8604 You mean just like there's no proof the sun is going to come up tomorrow? It's come up every day since the world began, but who says it will come up tomorrow.
I never thought of a link between WMBs hatred of women with being homosexual. That is really interesting. And just to preempt anyone who would like to say WMB did not hate women's said he struggled against the urge to shoot women, that we weren't with the bullet it would take to kill a s. That every sin that has ever happened in the entire world was either done by a woman or a woman was behind it. That women are lower than hogs and dogs, that daughters ( never sons, never chldren, only daughters) should be beaten with a barrel slat until they can't get out of bed for six months, or until they are covered with weird so bad they can't get their clothes back on. That women are human sex-disposals. WMB did hate what women and his hateful teachings are still being used to oppress women.
Anyone who says he didn’t hate women is being dishonest. I know mess believers will say he was referring to non mess believing women but this is still not right. So to them, you can harm or speak ill of non mess believing women. They forget that the Bible says we should not use foul and abusive language and we should let everything we say be good and helpful so our words will be encouraging to those who hear them. Who was WMB encouraging by calling women dogs and so on?
Exactly!! He would rant and rave over and over against women and then say in this syrup sweet pretend vouce, Now I'm not talking about yoy, my dear sisters. Like that makes it ok??? Any woman who is in this cult is in a male supremacy cult and it is no different than black people being in a white supremacy cult, which also happens in this rotten cult. The fact that I joined this and stayed in it for 28 years is something I have a hard time not being angry at myself about. I have to work on having grace towards myself, knowing that I gave this loathsome thing almost half my life!! Years I will never get back!!!!
Stop telling me and everyone else on here what to do.
If a person loves a group of people, do they struggle with the urge to shoot them and say that those people aren't worth the bullet it would take to kill us? It s that a loving thing to say it feel or think? No. That is hate speech.
Do you ever have the urge to kill someone you love, really kill them? I don't. I'm not going by what people say or don't say. I'm going by what WMB preached. You have to lie to tell me he did not preach every single thing that I said he preached. And I didn't learn those things from John, I learned them from listening to the taoes.
Where did he meet the tape boys? How did they become part of the message and his close circle?
My father once confided in a close friend that he was molested by William B at Yakima, WA in 1960. He refuses to speak about it and I cannot confirm anything other than the dates and that he and William B. were at the same place. My father would have been 14 at the time.
@@pristineclear8604 Here you are again
It's funny how people say something and other people on here don't believe them, even though they have no proof that what the person said is untrue.
@@pristineclear8604 It's funny that you're automatically dismissing this comment and ignoring the evidence on the video.
@@pristineclear8604and OJ Simpson is definitely innocent, right? Hearsay evidence aside, it’s not becoming of someone professing to be the voice of God to have so many colorful associations and questionable and vague recordings of his own. Whether or not someone is found guilty in a court of law, WMB, and those accessories, could not hide the truth from God. Even if they took it to their graves, the truth is still the truth.
Honestly, your trolling makes me question my appreciation for the 1st Amendment.
@@mynameisjeff704-d5s Amen !
The laugh is really creepy. When he was talking about sleeping in the hay
@@pristineclear8604 there was another man that was laughing, not collins
@@podcastsessionwitholiviaan2427 correct.
I’m disappointed but at the same time not shocked about this information of WMB. I’m glad you encouraged us listeners to decide what to do with this information and make up our own mind.
@13:00 The thing about anti-homosexuality laws is the only way to enforce them is to catch someone in the act. This makes private acts of homosexuality nearly impossible to prosecute. The only way to catch someone in the act was for them to have sex in a public place. I believe (I hope) most people would be in favor of any law that prohibited public lewd acts and indecent exposure, whether homosexual or not. So it's not like homosexuals were unfairly targeted, it's that they are the group of people most likely to engage in such behavior.
I'd like to add that I don't understand the focus being on the hypocrisy. Is not the actual act of 1) homosexual liaisons 2) with church members 3) who are married, 4) and hiding it and denying it, etc... a far greater sin than telling others not to do such things? Wouldn't you rather a loved one who was a drug addict stop doing drugs than stop warning others that they shouldn't do drugs?
Can a mess believer explain to us why WMB went to these places and was chum chum with men he told his followers not to associate with? I’m sure they have an answer to clear the air.
Why is TH-cam hiding the response?
I don't think there is anything for TH-cam to hide, other than deadening silence.
I think sometimes because of community guidelines, TH-cam will delete some comments. It says 3 responses but I can only 2 before I typed the is comment. It will go up to 4 but I can’t see the 4th comment.
We are waiting…. Most of them are too busy attacking “the critics”
Exactamente buena pregunta
ThankYall for your courageous publishing of these facts and truths!
Today you are saying these two people are courageous. Let's wait tommorrow and see whether they will be courageous as well.
I've never understood why homosexuality is supposednto be this sin that is so much worse than any other sin. Why? Sin is sin. Gossip is sin. Haven't we all done that? Haven't we all lied? None of us are anything but sinners! Some of us are saved by grace. God did that, we didn't do that. We are no better than any gay person or any other people or commit sin. And some people won't be around gay people? If you refuse to be around gay people, who is going to tell them about God's word? How can you show gay people God's love when you hate them so much that you refuse to be around them????
Thank you so much for this comment. God bless you mightily. TH-cam deleted a comment I wrote similar to this but I’m glad yours is here because we as Christians need to stop this sin-grading system.
That's right!! There is a person on here who said they won't be around gay people, that sin is sin. I called them on it and now they are saying they will be around gay people but won't be friends with them or encourage them to be gay. You can be friends with someone and not agree with everything they do! What happened to being salt and light, like Jesus told his followers to be? Its pretty hard to do that alone with your self righteousness in a cave so you don't have to be around a certain category of sinners.
Leslie, that’s how a lot of cult people behave. What they don’t realise is they are operating in fear and are therefore not of sound minds. How are we supposed to evangelise the world by avoiding them? How is the world going to see Christ if we don’t show them Christ?
@@EnlighteningTopics Yep, exactly!!! It's totally impossible to not be around sinners, since we all sin. To pick one group of sinners to ostracise is so wrong! And like you said, how is the world going to know about Christ? He said to be salt and light and not to hide the light under a bushel. That is exactly what people like that are doing!
Brother Branham did not do all the Tommy rot you are saying here, you will reap what you are sowing. I hope you will have nerve enough to stand it when harvesting time comes. The two guys doing this must be filled with an evil spirit.
I am interested in seeing their ends. It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomora than for these two guys.
Praise God for Brother Branham.
Thank you John and Pastor Charles for all the work that you do. 🇦🇺
Why are / did they become homosexuals? Isn't that a case of Romans 1.
No please be careful my sister. These 2 guys don't love you. They are deceivers. Trust me. If I was a lier, God would strike me down. Soon you will find out that I was right. Stay on the truth. Stay clear of people like this. They are roaring lions in sheep's clothing. Don't trust anyone. Not even me. Go to the Word and find out for yourself. I pray that Jesus will show you the truth as well. No disrespect meant. Really. I don't know you. But I really care. Love and blessings to you and your family.
Great episode.
Sodomy is a means by which men can control other men. In many cultures the dominance aspect is tolerated, even where sodomy is forbidden. So, Branham, who operated a cult was all about controlling the membership may well have specifically used sodomy as a control mechanism within the cult.
It's very possible. That's what Jim Jones did.
There’s the control but maybe he also liked the lifestyle. Him and his once good friend Jones. All birds of the same feathers flocking together, doing similar things.
In a lot of cultures from the past and some in the present, men rape men and they say they turn them into women. And in the eyes of those people, wonder men are weak and subservient and lesser than. I think I just described what WMB said about women. How interesting.
I mean women, not wonder men. I can't seem to type on a tablet without a bunch of typos.
It's more like Jones found out about WMB being a racist and Jones wouldn't have anything to do with WMB.
I had this theory when I first left the Message in the 00s. I don't want to feed into homophobic stereotypes that gay men are misogynistic, but it does happen sometimes, and I've always wondered if he was gay and if that had anything to do with his absolute vitriol towards women.
Thank you for this video. Keep up the good work!
Isa 54:17 - 'Every weapon formed against you will fail, and you will condemn every tongue that rises up to judge you. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord. Their righteousness is from me, declares the Lord.'
Could this explain why men sat separately from women in mess churches? Could it be that WMB was projecting his ways to his followers without them even realising?
Where do they do that? In the US? I've never heard of that, but it doesn't surprise me.
I've always been what you call as bad as everyone else on here. I'm not getting to be.
@@pristineclear8604 I could not care less. I want to be what you call bad.
@@pristineclear8604 Leave me alone
No. We can't
John do you think WMB was trying to turn your grandpa and that’s why grandma was upset? I feel so sad now. Sleeping in the hay? Oh Lord have mercy on us. I’m almost in tears
I'm sorry this is so upsetting. The thing about WMB that upsets me the most is his hatred of women and his encouragment to abuse daughters. That gets me seeing red really fast!
Leslie I was very upset. What I don’t like about people is how they like to bring everyone into their mess. I don’t like that at all. Only God knows if this event led to problems in their marriage. I was very unhappy yesterday. I know most of these people are probably gone but it’s still wrong.
Yes, I do understand. The self righteousness and prejudice in some of these comments does bother me. We each have something that bothers us more than other things.
Yes, it is a tough subject, but we have had so much shoved down our throats by the "Men" of the Message. It is so time to speak OUR truth! There's a reason why men like Leo Mercier were placed in positions of control and power. I'm just sorry some of this wasn't heard while they were alive to know they were outed!
Amen!
👍
All I know is that there will be a bride of Jesus ,the Bible says that Satan will deceive all and almost to deceive the elect but the elect can never be deceived.
Branham’s followers are obviously not elect.
Satan cannot deceive God's elect saints because the Holy Ghost "smokes" him out😊! However, that doesn't mean he won't try it!
You are really looking for the wrong thing . because this Man William Branham. Was truly a faithful servant of God.
@@a.leemorrisjr.9255”smoke out”? Do you mean KKK style?
@@calebbyfaith6271so faithful that he had to lie out of his teeth for the sake of promoting himself and his own personal version of the “gospel”?
this has been so triggering for me on so many levels that I need to shut my mind down. I will (as I always do) re watch this tomorrow with a fresh mind, take more notes and then, but only then, if I feel it is in the right spirit and might be of use to civil dialogue, comment further. My next move is to chill out and listen to great music starting with Pachelbel 's Canon in D and move on to all my 'faves' which help my mind unwind.
I'm so sorry you ate suffering. It's really hard to get triggered. I understand.
Perhaps a little Bach music.??
@@pristineclear8604 forgive me....but I'm not gay, but I'm having a gay of ol' time. Egh
@@carlosparra1777 next time - I have something in mind - his name begins with G and ends with D
@@carlosparra1777 just 'dislike' he/she/them/they - don't waste your breath
Birds of the same feathers flock together.
WMB did not invent that saying.
Really? I didn’t even know I got it from WMB. Pristine, why are you insisting on being something you’re not? You’re not a mind reader so stop assuming almost everything. It’s ok to disagree but please apply some reasoning.
@@pristineclear8604 Leave me alone and stop telling me what to do!
@@EnlighteningTopics Exactly!!!!!
Could it be so simple that if you have real love in your heart you go to heaven,and people who are full of hate and hurt other people go to hell.
If only that were true...the Bible doesn't speak about that. It says we're all sinners, born into sin, and need a Saviour to save us from God's perfect wrath and judgement. He calls us to Him through Jesus, the perfect, sinless sacrifice, who took on Himself all our sin, so God will not see our sin. He sees His Son who died in our place, when we were the ones who should die and be eternally separated from God. I'm humbled by God's sovereignty and so blessed to be His child! Blessings to you! 😊
Abstinence for married people? I wonder if Leo ever heard of this man named Paul who wrote a big portion of the New Testament? Didn't Paul said to come together often except for a period of prayer and fasting? Isn't it easy to say WMB didn't know all this stuff, at least in between saying WMB knew the secrets of men's hearts and had a great gift of discernment.
Leslie this shouldn’t surprise us at all. Remember in the mess, they teach that sex was originally created by God for only for procreation. They add that the only reason we use to for both procreation and pleasure is because we are in our fallen state.
Personally, this is an animalistic way of viewing sex. Animals use it sole for procreation but we are not animals we are human beings. We form bonds, we build, we reason, we feel, we invent, we are higher than animals. There’s more to us than just procreation.
It sounds like rather controlling behavior... to micromanage people's private life that way. I get it, when they oust promiscuity... But why should a married couple be abstinent?
Pristine what under God’s sun is wrong with you? Who told you I’m a man? I asked you once and I’m going to ask you again. Do we have a problem? If so what is it?
Metapolitik, yes it is controlling behaviour but you won’t see it that way if you’re in there. The whole idea is you don’t want to behave like man in the fallen state. So you abstain if you’re not thinking procreation. That’s the whole idea.
'God said hire, God said you can't fire.' (not consistent with Scripture)
1 Corinthians 5:11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-not even to eat with such a one. 12b Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13b Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.
1 Corinthians 15:33 Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts good morals.”
2 Corinthians 6:13-15 Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
Lee Vayle - 1997-1004:
“ Now, where did Leo and Gene and all those guys get that? Now they were a couple of perverts, so if you’re miserably perverted physically, I’ve got an idea your spirit ain’t too hot either, because the Bible said, “Such were some of you, but now you’re clean.” They were around Bro. Branham and never got rid of their homosexual spirit. They’re both dead now, and I can say what I want of course and not be liable, but the point is, I’m not liable in telling anybody dirty stories. I’m telling you the truth. WHEN BRO. BRANHAM TOLD ME WHAT THEY WERE, I thought he was just, you know, being as rotten as I am, using a bad name about people. Positive truth. An absolute mess. If you don’t believe that, you talk to Leo’s wife, who’s still living. Now those guys were an absolute mess, and the people around them. But there was no eighth vision. And this is what came out of the vision book.”
Lee Vayle - 2000-0206:
“And at that particular time even Bro. Branham himself was involved with homosexuals on the ground that Leo and Gene, the tape boys, were homosexual. And when he wanted to fire them, GOD SAID, “YOU CAN’T FIRE THEM; LEAVE THEM ALONE.” And I saw the vision book where it was written-“Leave them alone. They will go into false doctrine and destroy themselves.” Now listen, homosexuality going to false doctrine destroying themselves. Here’s the Bible, did I read it any different from the Bible? So I’ve been telling you the truth.”
Lee Vayle: 2000-0701:
“I believe it was about 1956 and no later, that Leo and Gene, Leo Mercier and Gene Goad, GOD TOLD BRO. BRANHAM TO HIRE THEM, TWO HOMOSEXUALS.”
Ed Byskal (sp?) used to go on hunting trips with Branham, didn't he? I wonder if he knew about any of this. His daughter raped a child and the church ended up splitting over it. A lot of people claimed it was consensual but children cannot consent, so it was rape. Before that happened, I did house cleaning for him a few times and was stunned by how luxurious his house was
I'm shocked at your statement I don't care what her sin was.are you sinless to publish someone else's sins.what has Ed's house got to do with me or the public.
@@johngeyer8280 who are you?
Doesn't matter who I am you publishing people's personal life on social media like yours is a perfect one.if God saved you and forgave you what right do you have to cast stones I'm in south Africa who don't want your dirty mind
@@johngeyer8280 "publish", as though I'm the first person to talk about this lol if you go to the website of the people whose channel you are on, william branham historical research, you will see they have already covered what I'm talking about. This is already public information, not something new.
very telling that the first thing you said was that you don't care a child was raped. that says a lot about you. you do know that raping children is against the law and covering it up makes you an accomplice, right? they should both be in jail. you should be on a watchlist, bc churches covering up crimes and sexual abuse is EXACTLY THE PROBLEM. YOU are PART OF THE PROBLEM. Funny how the message constantly talks about how evil the catholic church is while yall are doing the same exact thing. It's sickening. Seek help.
It would be perhaps informative to know what kinds of things Charles' pastor saw that disturbed him?
Great job guys!
I am presently reading, "Preacher Behind The White Hoods. It seems very likely that homosexuality was prevalent among them. Mr. John Collins, why did you not include any pictures in this book along with the references?
This video needs to be retitled "Brokeback Branham."
Look at the times we are in,sex is everywhere,one wrong click on the internet and it could come up with bad images,porn and many other bad things.It was not like this when i was a kid.It is a very hard time for young people.
Oh My, this will be the Hottest so Far.
@@pristineclear8604 I saw you followed the Podcast. You yourself will Testify that it's the HOTTEST so Far. Kindly remember to ask your Pastor the HARD QUESTIONS
Not all ex-message believers are liberal. Thankfully. Despite all this.
Agreed! And I'm so glad that they're sharing this evidence. It definitely makes more of an impact on the conservative mind.
Why did Branham flaunt the rules? Leaders do that just because they can. It's a demonstration of power ... to flagrantly lie, to establish the norms for behavior that all must follow, and break all the rules. "I'll piss on your back and tell you it's raining, and you'll believe me." Branham did it for the lulz.
So very true!!
Every cult leader I've ever heard of is a hypocrite. They have one set of rules for their follower and a totally different set for themselves. Why should WMB be any different? Maybe this explains why there were never any scandals involving WMB and women. There were about money, that's for sure.
Yes, noticed this as well... There is a propensity of those that are in (worldly) power to show that the rules don't apply to themselves, often by innuendo. But there is also more blatant things they do. Perhaps to be controversial. I sense they may use controversy in their favor. It gives them more power. But the thing is of course that they either never had the gospel or left it afterward in acts of over-confidence in themselves.
Yes, so true!!
@@lesliewells1062 At least this seems to a general issue there. Although in mini-cults it may be more about the 'ego of the leader' that needs to be polished. They want the respect of the followers and esteem... So they also will work out those that don't agree with the leadership... This isn't limited to religion of course, many other environments like business, politics, social settings can be the same. There is something of narcissism in this. And I've seen non-reg. organizations that were wrecked that way. After a while the 'leadership' becomes unbearable for people so people drop out or cease active membership... And younger folks, may loose interest, especially when they are shunned by the older members (doesn't have to be official shunning). Concerning the homosexuality of cult leaders or in cults I wonder, if this relates to the idolatry that takes place in them... I'm thinking of course of Romans 1 here.
Well....Im from Louisville, KY but my dad grew up across the bridge in Jeffersonville. He grew up on the same street, within view of the Branham Tabernacle. We were always warned to stay away from the church because they were a cult and had very strange beliefs. In the late 1990s after Roberts Liardon's "God's Generals" videos came out, I was surprised when it showed the Branham Tabernacle. I had never heard of Branham until then, but recognized the church because I seen it every weekend up until my grandmother passed in 1989 when I was 18 years old.
Well anyway, I showed the video to my dad and asked him if he had ever met him. He said that he had not, as he was still a child in those years, but he remembered that his brother (7 years older) and the other boys in the neighborhood who was his brother's age had all said it was common knowledge, that if any of them ever needed to make an easy couple of bucks, all they had to do was catch Branham when he was in his office at the church, and go see him for 20 minutes or so. I know it sounds crazy, but I guess I was naive, because it didn't catch in my head what he was saying. So I said "They did odd jobs for him? So my dad point blank told me, that from what he remembered, his brother said that Branham was definitely married to a woman, but he also had a thing for performing oral sex on younger guys, between ages of 16 and early twenties. And that he preferred the poorer guys, the dirtier and smellier the better. He also said that his brother said that Branham had pretty righteous body odor himself, so I dunno.
Anyway, that's all I remember. As small as Jeffersonville is, that this story never broke and became a controversy. But, from what my dad said, it didn't seem to bother his brother and his friends, they talked about it like it was a joke. And that 2 bucks was a lot of money in the 1940s.
And now you are the third person I have heard this kind of thing from.
Would like to hear more if you could reach out. Contact page on william-branham.org
Please come forward with your information so it can be thoroughly documented for the benefit of all. Thanks
This is literally everything I remember, and they are all passed away now. I never had the chance to ask my uncle, as we had moved to Oklahoma in the 1990s. We were attending Rhema Bible Church (Kenneth Hagin) and Roberts Liardon was a frequent guest speaker there. My uncle passed in 2001 so I never got to see him in person again after my dad told this story. I don't know if my uncle ever took Branham up on it, but the way my dad said that he made the emphasis about how bad Branham stunk, like he has been close enough to smell him. Also, the way he said "2 bucks was alot of money back then"
My family was clean though. They were poor, but my grandmother was a stickler about hygiene. And she splurged and bought them all deodorant, even though hardly anyone wore it back then because it was so expensive. So that part doesn't add up to it. But my dad said most of the guys in the neighborhood were poorer and wore the same clothes over and over again. So maybe my uncle just knew from them. Or maybe none of them actually did it, because he said they all always talked about it like it was a big joke. But.....something had to have happened to someone, because back then, people respected ministers and didn't make jokes about them
You did this very well. I was assuming all that you said already.
Can you stand in your head for five minutes for every time you say that?
Are you kidding me! How could William Branham do this stuff? I am shocked!
@@Chanelnumber7394exactamente 👍
@@Chanelnumber7394I never heard that in the message marriage and divorce prove it .
@@Chanelnumber7394This is a lie! Wow how could you!
Don't be deceived William Branham was the most sincere and honest person you can ever find on this earth. From what he preaches you can tell.
I always thought he looked kinda queer in his little neckerchief
The picture of WMB about to spank one of his "buddies" pretty much says it all.
The one that surprised me the most was WMB using another guy's crotch for a pillow!!
@@lesliewells1062 Yep I saw that one afterwards. I would have been punished VERY heavily for doing that, but apparently ol' Billy Boy gets away with it scot-free. Plus the fact that his friend got arrested for homosexual acts on one of their trips..
@@dannyboi_663 I know. I wonder if there was anything he didn't get away with. Even when the IRS sued him and he lost, he wasn't put in jail and he never paid them the money before he died. It would be interesting to know if his estate paid that off. I think you have to do that, legally.
@@lesliewells1062 I think someone else payed it off for him, but I would need to check to make sure.
@@dannyboi_663 You're probably right! I mean, when he said, we need a plane, they bought a plane. When he said we should do this or that, someone always bankrolled it. As WMB continued his act of being poor and humble. We know how humble he was and how poor he was, NOT AT ALL!!!!!
EXCELLENT expose. You really set a standard for presenting "a matter" to believers concerning sin in the camp. Sadly too many professing Christians fail to understand the standards that Jesus sets for those who claim to follow Him. Absolutely we must keep the fellowship pure, as Paul was faced with the case of a man sleeping with that man's father's wife. Paul rightly declared that that man must be put out of the fellowship. Fellowshipping with unbelief leave alone blatantly defended sin is dangerous for those believers back in Paul's day and believers today who refuse to subject Branham to the test that Jesus commands us to use. Continuing to believe in leave alone ascribe to the claims of and teachings of William Branham is extremely dangerous for those who truly want to follow Jesus. I strongly urge any who have come to this video to ask the Holy Spirit to show you personally if the facts presented here are true. Continuing in the teachings of Branham or following him or his underlings is extremely dangerous, as pointed out clearly in this video.
Thank you John and Charles for your careful, sensitively yet truthfully, well-documented reports concerning a man who was nothing short of a wolf in sheep's clothing. Shame on those men who refuse to acknowledge what they know for the sake of promoting a man who they honor more than they honor Jesus Himself. Woe to those who attack you for spreading the Truth, what which Jesus said that He wants us to KNOW and to free us thereby. The Lord bless you both as you continue in this important work from the Lord.
Lol what is extremely dangerous. There are such devoted Christians in the message
Having just checked EVERY translation, including the original hebrew says thigh.
Thigh is euphemism for the male member.
Great job guys, expose the devil!
I keep asking a question and nobody is interested in answering at all...... WHAT OF BRO. MELVIN? WHAT BECOME OF HIM.
He was the pastor at the branham tabernacle.
He passed away in 1974.
I hate labels. Phobia means having a fear. I have no fear we just don't want to be associated with it. However, Jesus went among sinners to try to help them and got falsely accused.
The names that you cannot mention need to be exposed. Do it, Lord. Amen
Thank you for trying to use careful language, and recognising homosexuality is not a choice. For a gay man or woman the straight sexual attraction is as alien to them as homosexuals attraction is for you.
You say leave it to the pastors but you still see it as a sin. I appreciate your journey from aversion to individuals, and previously about your journey on racism. I had to make my own journey too. Learning about the context in Bible times with power play and often abusive use of male with male sexual acts (with very clear dominant and recipient roles, based on making someone as if female when women were seen as lesser) challenged my thinking. And that Luther translated one of the key verses as the German for abuse of a male child. Then I looked at the lives of faithfully monogamous same sex relationships, some up to 60 yrs together. I found that I could not deny anyone the option to have such a loving partnership. I had been brought up to be wary of 'the gay lifestyle' which was seen as extremely promiscuous. I still reject that in straight or gay contexts. But a life of love, within a commited relationship. I cannot see that condemned in the Bible. Shrine male prostitution yes, abusive, dominant actions yes, going against your nature yes (to me that inc gays getting into straight marriages against their nature and both partners suffer that mismatch) But life long committed relationships based on love, no I cannot see that condemned..
Being around someone who might be attracted to you does not mean that they will want or try to have sex with you. If you son and this friend are at the same school the locker room is more physically revealing than a sleepover. Maybe as someone who has never felt sexual attraction (Paul's ref to the gift of celibacy?) I am naive in this, but from what I observe people are often attracted to someone without hitting on them in any way. Sometimes it is nerves, sometimes because the attraction is inappropriate ie the other person is already married, or has a different sexuality. People handle this all the time, every day.
When we reach the stage of worrying about same sex friendships and also mixed sex friendships, then we can isolate children from almost any possible deep friendships.
Thank you for this. Your comment was very well written and also tactfully stated.
I have a handful friends who are gay, and I am no longer homophobic. I have never leaned that way, and outside of how they explain it, really have no point of reference. They are in a much different category, however, than the sexual predator(s) in Branham’s inner circle who were gay. We did our best to explain that, but I suppose it required listening to the previous few episodes.
The point of this episode was to explain the hypocrisy, which we hopefully achieved.
You are a very brave and wise woman Helen !
That is very well put. Thank you!
That happened in my family. My sister and her best friend were so close that the other little girl's parents didn't like it for that reason and tried to keep them apart. A case of monumental ignorance!!!
You cannot blame homosexuality on Brother Branham, he preached against it. It’s very clear in the message besides wasn’t Judas in the same church as Jesus.
Thank you for this informative documentary, I have wondered about William Branham being homosexual because of the horrific things he said about women. Also his close association with Paul Cain. Just like Ernest Angley was found out to be homosexual actually admitted having homosexual affairs with men.
👍
May God for give you
I also grew up in the tabernacle and I so wish I could know the names of the people your talking about 😅
Tgey keep coming up with names we all never heared about
It is not Homophobic to be against Homosexulity Romans ch.1 sayst is NEVER O.K.
As they all went by the King James version, it says in Genesis 24:2 - And Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh. NOT GROIN. OR LOINS. Talk about changing scripture to suit an agenda. 😮
Check out the lamsa translation. That is the only translation used in the message besides KJV. But you are right, its definitely thigh.
@@Charles-Paisley Hello Charles, I was just thinking about you. I have had to take a break from the Podcasts. I found I was getting angry. I truly appreciate you, that you have given so much time, expense, to find out the truth. So very glad that you are now a minister of the true gospel. May God bless you, and all your loved ones.
Wow this is difficult pill to swallow.I thank God that I am out of the cult and divorced my a horrible marriage.
Glory to God 🙌🏼
Me too!!!!!!
It's tough, but congratulations on getting out!
@@dannyboi_663 Amen!!! It is hard to get out, even for me who never had any family in this thing. It's such a shame about what some families do to their children and other relatives who leave this cult. I hate that for people!
I know this isn't true in every case, but really living these teachings of WMB is a recipe for a terrible marriage. I know mine was and I'm not the only one!
Please! to an afircan, holding another man like Braham held your grand father @ -38:48 has no sexual connotation at all. To a true African, this is just a sign of a sincere love with nothing profane at the back of one's mind and it will have been the same in the time of Christ. This confirms that Jesus christ was indeed black personality and an African. This is just like the love that exist between a father and son. Look at all these tribal people living in some of the remote parts of the world, who walk around naked e.g the inhabitants of the amazon forest. You don't see them jumping even their women aimlessly although they have no cloth on, let alone their men. And in a society like that, your life is at stake, if you show sexual interest to a person of the same sex.
The disciple and apostle John, the very apostle of love laid his head on the bossom of Jesus at the feast tables. If Jesus lived today in human flesh and a follower did that, they both would have been labelled as homosexual.
It's really funny that you pick that one little thing that you think is similar to something Jesus did to address and ignored the other 98% of the content.
John wasn't a homosexual..... But the man underneath William Branham was.
John laying his head in Jesus refers only to the way in which they were seated at the table during the Passover feast/Last supper. That is all. They reclined on their left arm and leaned back as if leaning on the person behind them.
@@pristineclear8604 that sounds suspiciously like flatterer, my dear
Obee, I so glad you explained this so we can all understand. This is how should approach mess believers, use the Word. They’re so focused on WMB, they diminish the Word of God.
It is a proven fact that Branham kept constant company with practicing homosexuals. Had countless sleepovers with them.
This is very interesting and hilarious! He’s my great uncle and never had the opportunity to meet him as he died 5 years before I was born. I’m from the Branham side of the family that is agnostic/atheist. This shit blows my mind! Hard to believe he and his “prophecies” and whatnot are still being discussed! It seems he traveled the world spreading lies and making money…the American dream!
So upset about this I believe branham was a man of God he was gay wow where do I go now 💔
How about Jesus .
Jesus was also gay
Im a latecomer to this: "Fairy von Blomberg"??????!!!!!!!
Frary Von Blomberg.
And Scripture isn’t homophobic?🤔
I dont think the Bible is afraid of you. It doesnt agree with your lifestyle.
Help us to translate into french or try to write it, please !!
Transcripts and translations are automatically provided by TH-cam. You will need to press the “transcript“ button or menu link on your device.
Ajude também em português por favor
If you tap on the screen a little settings icon will show up and you can turn on captions. I only have the option of English captions, but depending on where you are, you might have French captions available.
Who introduced how you greet the men in this cult buy hugging and only shaking the woman's hands? Could this be a link? Thank you bro John and Charles for another fascinating episode
Wild assumptions
May God bless you brothers for all your labour and your efforts to help people come out of deception. May The Lord bless and keep you both. 🇩🇰🙏🏾🙌🏾
Its totally unchristian to bad mouth another christian and accuse deaceased on wild assumptions. Thats totally against scripture and surely not blessed
Lol
God is merciful! If a homosexual repents God will forgive, renew and restore them. Nobody is writing them off,but we shouldn't entertain them because the world wants to normalize it
The world is trying to normalize it because it's normal variant of sexual behavior. A person who is gay can no more change that than someone who is heterosexual and it sounds like you believe that God created ALL of us. Did God make a mistake? Left handed people used to be demonized too. We got over that one - we can get over this one.
We're all sinners saved by grace. Any and every sin can and is forgiven by God. Homosexuality is not some unforgivable sin.
That's because homosexuality is normal. It's not common, but it is normal.
I agree!!!!!!!!
The message is homophobic
Gays in the message ifs not allowed 🚫 🤧
Its not allowed
1:21:27 Well...I'd feel a lot more comfortable!
I would be careful about what terms you use in this context. I see "homofobic" as a derogatory term for people who are against homosexuality. I would never use that term about myself or anyone else who is against homosexuality.
Yeah, that is a really loaded term. I would not use that term to describe the average Christian position on the issue either. I think the message though generally has a far more hostile position than average Christianity. It's one thing identify sin and point people to Christ, and help them to overcome. It's another thing to just cast people into the pit of hell without hope, and essentially give up on them. And the message tends toward the latter unfortunately.
@@pristineclear8604 William Branham is dead. He's already getting whatever his reward is. That's not particularly relevant to me. It's interesting how you are such a hypocrite. It's really beautiful out today though, isn't it? I love the spring day here in Jeffersonville. Say hi to everyone at voice of God for me! I praying for you all.
@@pristineclear8604 This person does not work for voice of God. Pristine is a make-believer. What do you mean you're not a hypocrite? You MTV make believer. Do you see the reproach that you were bringing on the message? When are you going to stop listening to this blasphemy. They're painting us all to be make believers like you.
@@pristineclear8604 Hahaha. Even fake Billy Paul knows you are a hypocrite! That's hilarious. Come on pristine, why not take a second to try and answer one of the questions that was asked in this episode? There were some real zingers! Want to explain why William Branham was camping with those guys? And how he can get away with that but not other people in the message? And how can it be that John is a bad guy for saying what he said about homosexuals, but will him Branham is a good guy for doing the same thing! That is hilarious. You don't make any sense.
Yes, exactly!! We are all sinners!! A practicing gay person is not anymore a sinner than someone who gossip or lues or does any other sin. I've never understood why homosexuality is singled out as the horrible thing and the people who do it are these abhorrent creatures. No, we are all sinners.
Can anyone tell me if The Message Bible is from this cult?
No, it is not.
He chose to believe his dream over his lying eyes.?.🤔
Perhaps he was gay
@@eagleeyes6642 ugh.....prophet of the last ladocian age, the man the myth, the self proclaim profiteer, the greatest salesman of the decade (way back, I mean way back) the one and only returning S.O.M...branham.
@@carlosparra1777 I wonder if he'll return in shorts😂
@@dannyboi_663 Ha!!HA!!!
@@muppetonmeds Nope. However, Branham said shorts are women's underclothes, and then wore them above the knee himself, as you can see in Carlos's profile picture. Make of that what you will. I wear shorts all the time, like a normal person, but unlike Branham, I'm not a hypocrite about it.
@@muppetonmeds Sorry, but that isn't allowed on this platform. You'll have to find it yourself, but it isn't that hard. It's the one in front of a hut.
You don't have to be a preacher to says whether homosexuality is right or wrong John, we are all called to declare the truth of the word of God, but I know that if you did you would be in a whole world of trouble from people.
Brother Branham was not homosexual . The Angel of the Lord told never to drink, smoke and defile his body because God had something for him in adult stage. You must be devil possessed.
Assuming everything he told us was true. Which seems VERY unlikely at this point.
Wow you are playing with fire with these accusations, seems your whole "ministry " is attacking this man shame on you.
✅
El mensaje de la hora es para la amada del señor Jesucristo no es para la iglesia amén
2 Timothy 3
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
Fairy???? von Blomberg???!!!
You want an explanation. Here it is. In the past there were zones of permitted affectional, physical and at times sexual and parasexual contact. Things were a lot more relaxed about this back then. It was a specifically carved out space where more fluidity was allowed.
There may well have been a degree of hypocrisy that deepened over time.
PS One of the best exemplifications of this is Brokeback Mountain if you want a reference and a way of understanding the phenomenon.
Please explain what "The Message means" Thanks
Thou shalt not bear false witness....
Christians,pastors,BELIEVERS,and specially of the message, are supposed to be repenting for the sin of CHURCH like Ezra,Denial of the bible especially when sin is found within. Representatives like pastors,office bearers must cry out against any form of sin out of their pulpits like the prophets or like wm Brenham. The problem is not people,it's us pastors, we have compromised with the word.I'm even suprised to see these brothers laughing when presenting this evil sin.Museven is even better than many of these on pulpits
One thing that I've learned is that both of you coming from the message reminds me of the 70 minister's that left the lord.Thank God for this message and for brother Branham who I never saw in the flesh but man I see God's blessings and respect and revelation all over this message.youll far too late to convince this Bride otherwise
You might have heard about the story of wolf and grapes 🍇 wolf tried to grasp some grapes from the height vine, jumped many more times but didn't get not even one sweet grape finally disappointed wolf said the the grapes is sour that's what happened in this so called ministers didn't get anything from the messages, it is not ordained for them, they are ordained for the damnation for damaging the the purest Message of the hour
Can you really quote to me where WMB preached homosexuality as a virtual. ELSE you want the Bride to converse with you as you did it in the garden of Eden and minister doubts in Gods revealed truths which He gave the Bride through prophet WMB.
Can you tell me why William Branham was staying the night with homosexuals on a regular basis?
It's not homophobic not to have anything to do with homosexuals. Sin is sin. No sugarcoating!
Amen! Why do you think William Branham was doing that? It's really shocking, isn't it!
It's unbelievable. Isn't it! My whole life I spent in this message, and I even knew Leo was a homosexual. But it's like your mind never puts it together. I feel so dumb having overlooked that my entire life. How can William Branham justify any of this? It is so disturbing!
Yes, sin is sin. And we're all sinners. Some of us are saved by grace. You don't have to compromise to be around gay people anymore than you have to compromise to be around people who gossip, people who lie, etc. Do you separate yourself from all sinners or just gay people? If you so separate yourself from all sinners, that means you are a hermit and refuse to be around anyone. After you move into your cave on the too of a mountain to get away from all the sinners, what do you do about the fact that the person living in the cave is a sinner too?
@@lesliewells1062 we are all sinners saved by grace, and some of us by grace continuously renew our minds not to engage in gossip lies fornication etc. If you want to associate with gays I haven't stopped you and it doesn't make homosexuality right. I keep emphasizing on the fact that we must yearn for the holy spirit. If we all have the holy spirit we won't be in this mess trying to deal with people are born male but think they are female vice versa! Yes I'll rather be alone than to be around homosexuals if you are offended sorry
@@dear_Lordhavemercy Interesting, so you're saying William Branham didn't have the holy spirit.