To master the grammar of a language, spend most of your time with the language itself, in low-stress enjoyable situations, listening, reading and speaking. Occasionally look things up in the smallest grammar book you can find, but don't try to deliberately learn the rules, it's too hard to do. FREE Language Learning Resources 10 Secrets of Language Learning ⇢ www.thelinguist.com LingQ Grammar Guides ⇢ www.lingq.com/en/grammar-resource/ My blog ⇢ blog.thelinguist.com/ The LingQ blog ⇢ www.lingq.com/blog/ My Podcast ⇢ soundcloud.com/lingostevepodcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/learn-languages-with-steve-kaufmann/id1437851870 --- Social Media Instagram ⇢ instagram.com/lingosteve_/ TikTok ⇢ www.tiktok.com/@lingosteve Facebook ⇢ facebook.com/lingosteve Twitter ⇢ twitter.com/lingosteve LingQ Discord ⇢ discord.gg/ShPTjyhwTN
Completly agree with his opinion on school. You should do a video focused on how schools teach languages wrong! I used to hate learning Spanish now I'm getting into it again.
Excellent video Steve! I couldn't agree more with you. I have even referred some of my subscribers to your channel because you discuss this topic in such a coherent, well articulated manner and I really believe they will benefit from your video. Keep up the good work amigo 😊
If you wanted to be capable of speaking a language, I would not recommend focussing on grammar intensively; However, if you wanted to write professionally in your target language, you should have spent time practising grammar. I think it depends on what you want to achieve.
Indeed. Btw, I think that sentence mining is a great way of studying grammar. To get a better idea of what the rules mean and how they are applied. There's no reason why we shouldn't mix grammar and content.
I hate grammar, but I do think it's helpful to have some simple grammar sources around to help you occasionally try to figure out what is happening. I prefer learning Persian poetry over learning Persian grammar.
My key takeaway from this lesson is that the best way to learn a language is to be exposed to lots of listening and lots of reading in an environment that's Low Stress.
You will be exposed to a language and you'll start to ask "why". That's when you need to see how the language elements are put together. And the way those elements are put together is called grammar.
The key point about grammar Steve Kaufmann makes is at 3:00 to 3:10: "So my feeling on grammar and other details of the language is that they can be introduced at any time. They should be introduced when the learner is interested in them." In other words, the best timing for and degree of attention to grammar depends on the learner. For example, I love grammar. Knowing grammar sooner rather than later gives me the ability to express more complex thoughts sooner rather than later. As a mathematician by training, I like to know the rules. Thinking about the rules while speaking doesn't slow me down; it speeds me up. Of course, my goal is eventually to speak the Standard version of the language correctly without having to think about it, and as Steve says, that comes with exposure and practice.
I agree for the most part. I do most of my learning with comprehensible input and speaking practice, but I like introducing small doses of grammar occasionally. It helps me be more accurate and make fewer mistakes when speaking. However, learning grammar without regular reading and listening is pretty much useless, because you just don't remember the rules.
I am starting to learn polish, I am an English speaker, do you think starting off learning vocabulary is a good idea? If so, how long do you think I should learn vocabulary before I move onto things like grammar and structuring sentences etc?
@@broxo5033 The "100/500/1000 most common words" are exactly that, the most common. If you read enough, you'll learn them quickly because you'll see them over and over again. My suggestion: Start with something easy with lots of repetitions, like the LingQ Mini Stories. Listen while reading, then download the audio and listen to the stories you've already read as many times as possible one after the other during your day, while walking, driving, doing chores...
@@broxo5033 kudos to you. Polish is my native lg and I honestly wouldn't even know where to start. I have a French friend who first learned all the little expressions and slang we use in a conversation like 'exactly', 'no way', 'that's awful'. That way he sounded native right off the bat ;)
@@chrolka6255 right now I know about over 50 words just randomly but I still have to learn how to put them in order to form a sentence. I also have an advantage because my girlfriend is polish and my main motivation is to learn it because of two reasons, 1. We plan on moving to Poland in the next few years and 2. Her parents Don’t speak a word of English so I’m learning it so I can have a proper conversation with them 👍
@@broxo5033 As far as I don't totally agree with Mr Kaufmann when it comes to English and French grammar (they are just too simple not to study them), I do agree that it's probably useless to study Polish grammar extensively -- it's just too darn complicated for a novice. I would start with simple phrases. Maybe ask your girlfriend to only talk to you in Polish for an hour each day, but nothing complicated. No discussions about politics, just a simple "what time is it?", "are you hungry?", "what shall we eat today?", point to a thing and ask "what is it?", ask "are you ready to go?" before going out, ask "where is...?" if you can't find something etc. All that in Polish of course :)
This is so true when it comes to teaching Irish here in Ireland. Thanks to English occupation, we obviously speak English as a majority but we learn Irish in school from around ages 4-18, yet we can’t hold a conversation in Irish naturally after all that time. We learn poems and essays off by heart, but absolutely no emphasis on speaking. In fact, it’s often taught through English! I only became fluent myself after living in an Irish-speaking community for a few weeks and making mistakes. I wish the Department of Education in Ireland would watch this!😭
It is my wish to one day learn and speak irish... just to show solidarity with an oppressed culture and also to stick it up to imperialist britain.. i am currently learning french though...
The main thing I remember from Irish class in school is "Leathan le leathan, caol le caol" lol I wish my Irish were better though I still understand quite a bit. My teacher was terrible. I went on to study French and Spanish in college though and now I teach them. Ba mhaith a chur fheabhas ar mo chuid Gaeilge!
I love Irish. Plan to master it. I'm a Spaniard in the Far East. No need to learn Irish. Just love. The Irish should see my series on the overrated English empire.
I like to start with a little grammar when learning a new language, like Teach Yourself or something like that. Just to get an introduction to the language. After I move to larger doses of comprehensible input, and only much later do I return to grammar for purposes of honing in skilsl
@@donnamansilla8600 podcasts, books, shows, movies, youtube. You can use them intensively (looking up words, making sentence flashcards), extensively (more passive learning, just reading or listenint through and seeing what you pick up as you go along - my favorite). The n+1 principle from Stephen Krashen helps with this. Lots of videos on the internet too about comprehensible input
I do agree with you. I am on the language number 4 and when I would like to know how to make sentences quickly, the grammar is necessary ( specially at the beginning. )But the end of the day, everyone is different..what works for you, works for you.
So, so, so true! I studied Spanish at school for 5 years and I thought I was doing well. There then came an opportunity to go to Spain in my final year which also happened to be a week before my mock exams. I took it and absolutely loved it, however I really struggled understanding people and I couldn't put many sentences together at all. I brought a dictionary and Google Translate with me, which looking back was the worst thing I could have done. I was forced to speak to communicate, especially as we stayed with someone who didn't know English. After I got back, I got an A on my Spanish exam that I was getting a C on before. I think people don't realise how powerful immersion and learning through necessity actually are. I encourage everyone to put down the grammar books and dictionaries and start focusing on comprehension. Sure, you may not understand much in the beginning which is fine but I guarantee that the more you are exposed to the language, the more you will remember as our brains are sponges. That is how we all learnt our native languages, proof is that we could actually speak before we started school !Creo en ustedes, vamos a hacerlo!
"Learn the language in an enjoyable low-stress environment." That's my philosophy to teaching English too - it's nice to hear an experienced learner who agrees!
Exactly, you have to surround yourself with language and things you like in it. I noticed that with learning English, I was really bad at school with English & grammar, I've always used the wrong tense and stuff, but after school, I started using English more often, just for me, as a hobby to look up some cool things in the English language, I barely understood the songs or movies, practically been zero non-fluent, but after a while, year or two by surrounding myself everywhere with it, watching movies, googling everything in English it made me fluent, so yes, it is true, you got to just practice it on a daily basis, if you have a phone, change the language to one you want to learn, google everything with that language, plus it's very easy nowadays with google translate or the whole page translate online before that learning process was really slow, I learned (or got acquainted with) like a few or five words a day max. Now it's very easy. BTW, I thought that I am bad at English when I watched a movie because it's always some words I never understand, hear for the first time, but then I watched THE SAME MOVIE in my native Russian language and it dawned on me that I never knew those words in a first-place even in my native language, plus I realized that I think differently in English and Russian when it's English, my mind is always wandering around thinking about how stuff works, but when it's in my native Russian lang it's always everywhere but self evolvement. New language is a new skill, not just a language, it's a skill of self-developing and figuring how stuff works, I mean, sometimes when I need to do my work, thinking and googling in English makes me think rather when it's in Russian, Russian lang brings old me, the one that just wanders around without real purpose.
Alexius, this is SO helpful. I've done the same thing in studying Chinese. I can speak some Russian as well. I've traveled to Russia 7 times. Thank you for explaining what your experience has been. I completely agree with you.
@@murphy903 wow, that's great that you share similarities with my experience! Just want to hug or shake your hand! Good job! Never been to any English speaking countries, been to Italy, Milan, thought I'm gonna have some troubles with communication but seems like my little skills with Latin, English and my second native language Ukrainian made it easier to understand Italian and almost everyone understood English. I bet Russian was pretty hard for you because it's a totally different language if you never tried any Slavic lingvos :D
Yeah, me too. I got frustrated whenever I took my english exam because some of the grammer patterns confused me. But after my high school, and during this quarantine, I noticed that my listening and reading skills improved more than before. And as you mentioned, I also look up some topics which intrigue me on Google. So, the point is surround youself your the language and make the learning fun.
@@imrebenedect please do, don't forget to practice daily, you'll see thr difference, don't give up! I believe in you, I know you can, I did it, you can too!
Learning Japanese currently. I used to focus a lot on grammar and skimp out on vocab, but at some point I decided to just touch on some grammar points, do a few minutes of practice, and not worry about it too much after that. I think having a broad vocabulary is far more important that knowing a ton of grammar points.
أشكرك على النصيحة المفيدة , اتفق أكثر مايضيع وقتي بتعلم اللغة هو القواعد اللغوية والفائدة قليلة في النهاية , التركيز على الاستماع وتكوين الأنماط أفضل بكثير . شكرا جزيلًا ستيفن
I gave up on a French course because there was so much emphasis on grammar. fortunately we got a Spanish teacher who thinks the way you do. For Russian i look at a lot of sentences and what they mean and am gradually seeing the grammatical patterns.
I'm totally with you on this point. Back in time, I used to study grammar in detail but never practiced speaking and listening. Guess what? I got better at grammar to an extent, but I was still not able to speak. Sometimes I hesitated to pronounce certain words due to lack of confidence about their pronunciation. I learned grammar without having clear goal; I thought English is all about grammar, so let's learn it. I practiced grammar drills and all that sort of stuff, but I missed the most important part that was " to get enough exposure of the language." On the other hand, I completely stopped learning grammar two years back and put myself into speaking the language. Although I grasped quite good command over grammar, my speaking sucked. Then I realized that speaking is different from learning grammar. I continued speaking more and more along with listening. After lots of exposure to the language, those rules I learned actually started making sense to me. Now I do what you shared. If I am uncertain about some sentence structure, I simply look for it once or twice, including examples. That's it. My brain recognizes it and starts observing such patterns while listening or reading something. Thanks!
I agree with the points made here. In my past 10 months in studying Korean, I nearly never "focused" on the grammar. That doesn't mean I didn't study it--on the contrary, it's the main exercise I use with my online tutor to keep some form of structured study going. But, the key here is I used the lessons to "unlock" that part of my hearing where I would then recognize that grammar point the next time I hear it. There's a saying in Korean that when translated, goes something like "you won't know that you heard something unless you know it". So, when my tutor taught me -은/ㄴ 데, from that point on, I heard it EVERYWHERE. That's how I've naturally acquired the proper use of a grammar point.
Not actually, without knowing some grammar you don't become fluent, if you're fluent you know a lotta grammar actually, even if you're not aware of it, even if you don't know the technical grammatical terms. Remember: grammar is basically just how the words organize in a language. Ps.: The only grammar that you should only study after you've become at least conversation in a language is the NORMATIVE grammar.
Hmm to be honest anyway you should learning to grammar part in any language which you learn, at least in order to build really good sentences and make not so big mistakes in that language which you're learning, but on the hand you can learn with help to different things like different videos on TH-cam in that language which you're learning or just with different people, but I agree with you. You are wonderful polyglot which I saw ever, thank you for your work.
sehr gut Mr steve Kaufman. ich bin Mehrdad und wohne in iran. ich habe viele sprachen kennengelernt und ich hab noch nie die Grammatik regeln gelesen. wenn wir mit anderen menschen die Kommunikation haben können, das bedeutet wir kennen die sprache. our mind is so powerful to manage grammar in sub-consciousness, i never read grammar. confidence and believe in your self is so important. mi piace la lingua Italian e ..... .
I heard your interview in English-speaking Success. Before I watched your video, I had the very similar approach, but I didn't certain. Now you convinced me, in my directions, thanks.
Your videos are always very interesting, Steve! I agree with you that we shouldn't STUDY grammar. That's also what I say to my students: Focus on listening and reading and your brain will naturally pick grammar up, but if you wanna search a little bit about it, go on!
This video came in the right moment, I was trying to get started on Russian grammar and it's so huge and hard. But even though it's hard, that's what motives me in this aspect. Great video, as always!
Before starting to study English in a course, I was focused only on grammar and I couldn't speak, but now I can speak because I focused on phrases. I try learning phrases and how they are structured to create my own sentences. Since I have been studying on this way, I have improved a lot and I consider that grammar is not as good as practicing every single day to improve yourself.
Thank you, Steve! From a lover of grammar..., and yes, I guess you're right. This is a good way of approaching grammar. Recently I heard that in India the sacred Sanskrit language taught in a similar way: students first have to memorize a couple of texts and grammatical explanation will start afterwards. And that for a so-called "dead" language...)
SO TRUE and it's THE WAY I teach online a foreign language to my students. I learned 4 languages that way and become fluent after months of exposure to the language.
I was born in the 90s in Vietnam, most of my English knowledge comes from learning grammars and vocabulary at school, those big thick grammar books and list of all present/past/past perfect vocab lists, I had to learn them all. I was even proud of it. Any small grammar mistake is a shame and I tried hard to avoid it, at the same time laugh when I found one from other people. Back then we don't have Internet, nor any native speaker around to talk to, and every test asks every small details of grammar, so I and others learned it the hardest way possible. Also I believe that's the only way for us to learn English back then now things have changed, Internet makes the world closer, information is everywhere, and people start bashing grammar learning. I feel angry at first, how the hell you use the language without its building block of grammar and vocab. but on the second thought I think maybe these people are right. I know lots of grammar, but when it comes to speaking or writing I struggle to keep the fluency by all the rules I learned, and it's hard. so hard. the only way to fix this is to expose more to the language by speaking and reading more and imitate native people, which is essentially what I should have done from the beginning!!! anyway just a random thought accumulated after a long time seeing these 'stop learning grammar' video
Generally speaking I agree with what you say. I have recently taken up learning Turkish which works in a strange and beautiful way to a native indoeuropean language speaker - English in my case. I find its grammar truly a thing of beauty in its logic, regularity and inherent simplicity. This means it is weirdly both easy and difficult at the same time. Without understanding how it is put together (grammar) you would not be able to look up a suffix (-tür say) occurring in one context because it is really (-dir) in disguise. Only understanding the grammar points you in the right direction. Another thing I find useful is having a short grammar of the language in German. There is lots of material on Turkish from German publishers for historical reasons (Gastarbeiter and offspring) and it helps me to maintain my German painlessly at the same time. I think you would have to be a child to work out what is going on from listening and reading alone and I am ancient. I like grammar.
I agree. I think it's quite important to study the grammar a bit right off the bat as that would help immensely to get a grasp on how a basic sentence is formed especially if you're learning a language from a whole different language family group (Asian-Turkic language family in your case). Bu arada başarılar dilerim! :)
I think learning grammar is more important if your target language is too different from your native one. Especially, if it's a highly-synthetic language, which has lots of forms. As for Turkish, it's indeed different to understand at first, when you know nothing about its grammar.
I absolutely agree with what you’ve said here. It’s important to learn the specific details yes but I always think it’s better to learn it as you need it. For example if you wanted to talk about what you did yesterday then yes you need the past tense but I would never start there
Contrary to what I've been told for years on end, I don't have to strictly stick to grammar books, when studying a foreign language. As a matter of fact when I want to learn a new language, I listen to audio books, read ebooks, newspapers and magazines, often translate in my mind whole sets of phrases, sentences and idioms. Grammar books are the books I quietly browse in my living room at the end the week, when things get a bit more complicated as far as writing in a foreign language is concerned. The way I see it, training one's ear to foreign language conversations is the best and most affordable way to learn things well.
Completely agree with your opinion on partially shunning grammar and I say that as a French and Spanish teacher who detests teaching grammar. I used to teach it religiously and found it didn't benefit many of my students in their language acquisition. So one day as a gruelling lesson trying to get students to understand the passé composé in French, I thought where the students could express themselves in the past without all these complex grammar rules. This is what I'm trying to do now!
I am thinking You must have a good happy medium, because if you are using only grammar, you won't speak and understand well, but if you are using just practice, you will understand but you will get a lot of mistakes in sentences
This is very true in my case. I learn mostly on comprehension and through videos, movies or audio books. And through that process I learn more and more about grammar too, without actually studying and focusing on grammar. I gradually learn it through time. Your channel is very motivating especially because I learn a language same way you suggest but my problem is consistency.
I very much agree. Studying or deliberately learning grammar works in only very few situations and is just supplementary / there to fill the gaps. However. I do tend to notice and "get tripped up" by all kinds of minor differences and details during that low stress enjoyable exposure - to the point where I can't concentrate on the "bigger picture" or "global understanding". So for me a (thick, comprehensive) grammar helps immensly to "make sense of what I'm noticing" and to understand what I get tripped up by and why (though that too is an instance of "look it over and forget it". It's just to get an overview, to know what's happening / that there is something happening. - And to know that the time will come where it all falls into place. But that time is not now). Though this too very much depends on the person who is learning, I imagine. I have a background in linguistics - which might very well mean I get tripped up by way more details and differences than other people (because that is, in essence, what linguistics is all about). I hated grammar and grammar books in school and all but failed pretty much all grammar-based tests (regardless of the language. Even in my native language). But since then these big, technical comprehensive grammars have really grown on me 😂 Long story short: Grammars are a tool. Like every other tool some are more useful than others - and how useful it is to you mostly depends on you.
I agree with you, but learn a little bit of grammar in russian (conjugations) really helped me a lot. Before I did not know why some verbs ends up in "ют" or "ят" for exemple... And learn about conjugations and other things made me understand the language. Those things about the word change, it I get naturally, like, I know I must say "я люблю зиму" and not "я люблю зима" (I love winter). Why? I don't know, but I know :D Well that's it, I think it can be helpful sometimes, but learn by input is easier and prove to ourself that we are able to learn any language like a baby.
Thank you Steve for the great work you are doing. So nice to just sit down and listen to what you have to say and take in parts of your own experience.
I 100% agree with you. As a Hugarian native who had learned 9 languages (although can only speak in 4 or 5 of them), I found books and grammar very helpful in the beginning when I have 0 info about how a certain language works (i find it necessary), but after like A2 or B1 level, I find reading or listening to material written by natives in my target language and learning patterns and rules by exposure both more natural and more effective. I might not understand 100% how a given grammar works, but I will use it correctly every time, as long as I have seen and heard it used correctly. I recognize the pattern and my brain knows that I should use this pattern there, this word here, etc.It feels not only more natural, but more fun to me, as I am learning not by being hunched over a grammar book, but rather reading/listening to thnigs I like in my target languag and having fun in the meantime. In my experience, grammar books and such are about 20-30% of the learning, and exposure is about 70-80%. I had not even studied English before primary school 5th grade, but because I had played computer games in English, I already had a very basic vocabulary and a basic understanding on how the language works, and I wasn't even in my early teens at that time, with 0 interest in learning languages.
Absolutely agreed, approach the language learning as an adventure into a story, an interesting land. See if you can enjoy remembering some words and expression. Have fun! It shouldn't be a competition. Nobody should be forced to learn a foreign language unless they want it.
@@bofbob1 Children can be completely functional without prescriptive grammar. PG only starts to come into play when writing more formal structured texts once the grasp of the language is complete or for formal speeches. Language can be learned and absorbed simply by exposure and immersion, your brain figures out 80% of it, while external grammar instruction then refines what you already know.
@@lohphat I wouldn't view it that way, but I do see what you mean. I suppose I'd just say that I think the scope of use of prescriptive grammar rules goes well beyond structured text and formal speeches. There's a lot of variety in registers between the very formal and child speech. What's tricky is that there are prescriptive rules used in certain communities/circumstances that aren't subconsciously "acquired" at all. And the fact that native speakers have to consciously monitor those grammar points means that an SLA student won't learn them without explicit instruction either. That mismatch between prescribed rules and the natural gravity of language can be found in all levels of formality and age. Anyway, all I'm getting at by saying the debate has muddied the waters is that there's actually a lot of overlap between "descriptive" and "prescriptive". A lot of overlap, but also some mismatches. In the end, I think the only real issue to come out of that debate is attitude. People who lean towards "prescriptivism" need to be careful that they're not discriminating or being needlessly judgmental (it doesn't help a student to say "the way you naturally speak is wrong"). People who lean towards "descriptivism" need to be careful that they're not ignoring the social reality of language registers, and the importance of them for language learners (it doesn't help a student to say "don't fret, just speak the way you do and you will never face any social/economic consequences because of it").
Personally, I try to mix exposure and grammar. But I also know from experience that a lot of exposure will lead to you naturally knowing when to use a specific word, conjunction etc. But studying grammar every now and then can help you to clear away doubts, making you truly understand why you use a certain conjunction/particle/article etc at a certain moment. Whatsmore, I believe that studying grammar occasionally can help you to construct sentences ans express yourself more accurately. But I really agree with that exposure is very important as well.
I could not agree more with some of the things stated in this video. When I first started learning Japanese a few years ago I was so into the technicalities of the language and so I would specifically spend hours a day learning just kanji, and hours on another day learning just grammar, and hours learning just vocabulary…without context and just out of a book designed to teach you rather than with real Japanese content. After a bit I realized that maybe I should be reading more in this language than about this language….I know it sounds like a no brainer, but at the time it was not something that came to mind as easily, being the first language I learned by myself….so about maybe 5 months into starting to learn Japanese I dropped all books that were designed to teach me the language in favor of books targeted towards the Japanese audience…books that already expected you to know Japanese. I did keep my kanji studies though, because the more you know what a kanji means and how to pronounce it the easier the reading will become…. While this approach worked work a couple of years, I did reach sort of a plateau in terms of learning…..where I felt I wasn’t really learning anything but maybe new words….that I probably would never even use in real life….The problem is, I would come across grammar patterns without knowing they were grammar patterns….and so I would not know how to interpret that…. So about a year ago I started looking at books (again) that directly teach me Japanese….but that don’t throw me into like 50 exercises on how to use a single grammar pattern…instead I started with the 日本語総まとめ series, on only the grammar portion…and because of the structure of the book, I could spend maybe like 10-15 mins a day looking at maybe 3-5 new grammar patterns…this, I feel, has sky rocketed my understanding of the written language and I really spend less than 20 minutes a day looking at it (of course, this is not counting review of older points….which in my case I use anki and takes about an extra 20 minutes a day)….already up to N1 in the series..and while I could not say I can use all this grammar, I can certainly understand the language a lot better so I definitely don’t see it as a waste of time :)…as long as most of my time is spent on consuming the language rather than learning about technical details…I think it’s a good happy medium :)
I love your videos and I completely agree with you that it's not necessary to deliberately study grammar because grammar will come naturally from being exposed to the language; and you are certainly right, schools focusses on grammar because it's easily evaluable and schools are more interested in evaluating than in really helping learners. But what about if I like to study grammar? If I enjoy it, I think it's ok ...
Sorry, Steve. Not sure about this one. Grammar is a framework that can be used to build new learning.. to unlock and help you see NEW patterns. You need the template and the rule book to provide the context for what you’re hearing so it should come early in the process. If you learn mostly from hearing and committing to speech patterns, you may be learning the language incorrectly and you’re learning in isolation. With so many exceptions, you may be hardwiring yourself into bad habits.
Steve I am doing the listening, and it's ok not knowing quite a grammar in order to do so, but when it comes to reading books oh come on man! knowing those boring grammars is a must! By the way, Eu sou brasileiro
The only thing I do not understand, how are you reading? Are you translating every word? Or, are you searching up all the Grammer points? Or are you just reading without understanding anything? Please, can you tell me? Love you're video's BTW.❤
I have learning disabilities and I had a good Spanish teacher in secondary school. She used lots of pictures and music and games when teaching us. There was only little grammar studying. I learned a lot and Spanish classes were fun and I got good grades. When I got to another school teacher recommend me to study more Spanish on online course. I tried and didn't understand anything of the exercises. Even though I knew already Spanish quite well. I quitted the course. I love learning languages but my main goal is more to understand them than speak myself.
I've been learning English for about 3 years, German for 9 months and German goes smoothly than English. Today, when I woken up I was thinking about grammar. Should we really focus on it most of our time or not? Then I realized that I wana try a new approach by making short dialogues, since it's innatural to just learn a language by concentrating at the grammar and unilizing books all the time. Thanks Steave!
I see your point but I'd still have to disagree: Being German (married to a linguist & French teacher), I "properly" learned English and French (so I studied the grammar rules) and also had some success with (Han) Chinese, Italian and Danish. Learning grammar IS hard but there is a reward: Only knowing grammar intuitively (immersion / practice) AND cognitively (knowing and applying the rules) makes you a pro. Don't become just a language "collector" - there is *much* more fun in being able to *really" say what you want and to have really meaningful conversations. ... Now here is the thing: I have seen US/UK books on (French) grammar and they were bad. They were bad because they were trying to make it "easy" but that also made them superficial, which in turn made them ineffective and inefficient. THESE grammar books truly were a waste of time - and that's probably where your advice is coming from. Therefore, I'd say: 80% practice & immersion and 20% bad-ass hard-core grammar (university level but in small doses) is a dang good recipe to get beyond the "babbling away" level.
You changed my view on learning languages. I've been taught in school English mostly through grammar excercises. But I am going to learn German on my own with more listening and reading and less grammar.
Since I like to talk early on, I like to learn grammar patterns - the word order I need and certain basic ideas. Like how do I say, “I am...” , “I have...”. I don’t really care to know the why or the rule early on. Eventually, with practice and input (watching an insane amount of tv) more details fill in.
Admittedly, Grammar is my second weakness with speaking being my first! 😫 I have a confidence issue with speaking that Grammar provides an excuse for me to getaway from it all together! I suck at both of them but Grammar is the lesser evil for me. 😓
Honestly? Most germans totaly suck at grammar and dont use it well. Maybe like 10% of my friends have decent grammar. If you use no grammar, except maybe for the absolut basics, it might sound funny but will be totaly understandable.
Hey Steve. I'm sure you're very aware how English training in China is all about grammar because, as you said, it can easily be tested. The 'exam' is the what it's all about in China. Learning to actually use English is of little concern. My guess would be that 95% of those who spend 10 years studying English will never be able to say more than, 'Hi! How are you?' We use the same ideas and concepts to teach with the goal and practice in mind of English fluency as you, Krashen and other notable people in language learning in the world prescribe to. We are sold on 'comprehensible input' as being the key to fluency. Our stats have proved to us that we can get a student conversationally fluent to the point of not needing any translation in class except for new vocabulary words. It can be achieved in 175-225 classroom hours and following our prescribed daily assignments outside of class. When our students start middle school here in our school in China, they only get classroom instruction in English. They score quite high on the school's English exams even though academic English in China is far different from native English. (We see it nearly as a whole separate subject.) I've reviewed hundreds of exams written by Chinese English teachers and have found that the teacher's grammar is very, very abnormal (and often wrong) to a native English speaker (and especially a teacher like me who's been doing this for more than 30 years; 10 years of which, were in China). We introduce grammar that is easily explained and quite useful. We don't teach or give exams with the intent of tricking the student. We certainly challenge them and stretch them to their potential, but that can be done without the intent of deceiving them in exams. (I've talked to hundreds of Chinese English teachers and most relish the idea of tricking a student in an attempt to show their superiority). Our method, which closely follows you and Krashen, has help our students to achieve goals that they never imagined before. We've put students in Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Cambridge, University of Chicago, USC, Johns Hopkins, University of Toronto and other top schools. Our average TOEFL student will get 110 on the iBT and 720 on the SAT. Training schools here, market themselves by offering free assessment tests. Every student scores horribly on their exams in order to get them to sign up with the school. It's a pathetic practice, but a reality. I know a teacher who does these assessments and she actually laughs about their method of scoring the exam. The intent is to make sure that the student receives a score of less than 60% which is the pass/fail mark in China. I asked her, "So some students score quite well." She giggled and said, "Some students get an actual score of more than 90-95%, but we aren't allowed to give them a score above 60%." The parents, of course, don't know any better. I'm with you brother. I just renewed my Lingq subscription and am studying Chinese. Thanks for all you do!!!
I know what you are talking about Steve. The main goal to learn some new language is the fact that you can communicate with someone in that language. Grammar is just a detail. Important,but definitely not the main issue to care about at a first glance.
The real problem with a traditional, grammar-based approach to languages (one that is talked about often enough) -- EXCEPTIONS! I’ve been teaching French for over 10 years. Over that time, I pretty quickly switched from a grammar/textbook based approach to a TPRS/story based approach. If you look at a typical textbook, you will find this pattern: a simple, useful grammar rule is presented -- followed by pages of ALL the exceptions to this “general” rule. It’s impossible to memorize all this rule/exception information (except to cram in short-term memory for an exam). So generally a waste of time and effort. But you can’t just learn the “general” rules; they may only get you 60%-70% of the way to using the language. The only way to deal effectively with both general rules and exceptions is to do lots of reading & listening of comprehensible input. In this way, you will see the general rules demonstrated over and over again, AND you will also encounter the higher-frequency exceptions that are worth getting to know. I'd also add that using stories is SO much more enjoyable to students and teachers alike...
I second this. I recently completed a TPRS workshop and finally grew confident enough to use story telling with my students. It's been a complete game changer!
I thought this myself when I first looked at declensions in Polish. There's no way to memorize all the exceptions to the rules. I didn't even bother to try to learn the exceptions to the verb conjugations; I very quickly learned the endings (once I realized that the verbs were conjugating) and the important irregular verbs, like "to be," I picked up easily because they were repeated so many times. I don't think about conjugating them from the root word, I just think about the word I need because they're in my memory separately. I introduced my tutor to the TPRS concept and she was game to try it. We quite off-script pretty quickly, but it's evolved into something we both enjoy. I am actually the one telling her a story now, which I make up as I go, with her also contributing input by asking questions and making suggestions (she's good at plot twists). She takes notes and I notice where she decides one word is better to use than another and we can discuss the difference between the synonyms. Afterwards, I take the notes and flesh them out into a readable chapter and send it to her to proofread. Then I upload it to LingQ and can re-read it and practice the new words. In other words, I make my own graded readers because I can't find enough in Polish. I find the writing practice to be really helpful because I will put what I want to say in Google Translate one sentence at a time and read what it gives me. It has a much better chance of getting the grammar right, but I can often tell when it didn't get what I really meant and I will reword the English to get a different output in Polish. That allows me to tinker with the language and see where it phrases things a bit differently than we do in English. It's like learning how something works by putting it together from a kit.
Hello, I am having a hard time understanding this situation. How do you learn the grammar rules of a language you know nothing about just by reading? Because you don't know, you can't see the rules when you look at that book. You just read it plainly.
There was a famous Canadian-Cuban-Mexican actress originally from Toronto named Fannie Kauffman "Vitola". She has many classic, old movies out there to practice Spanish.
I like to see something a few times like in French I saw the use of "se" before a verb a bunch and could kinda figure out what it sort of was but wasn't sure, at that point I'll go look up why its there grammatically. I also like the phrase "trust your brain" thats very true!
In my opinion, it’s ok to have a quick look to lessons, see the examples and that’s all, For instance, in Italian sometimes you will say il, sometimes lo : it’s not bad to know the rules about that.
I grew up in Canada and I remember we started learning French in grade 4 and were required to take it until grade 9 (you could continue on if you wanted after). I remember even still in grade 9 hardly anyone could even conjugate Avoir in the present active tense. That's literally the first thing they try to teach and incredibly simple and it didn't even sink in over 6 years. What a waste of tax dollars.
I think it was Krashen who crunched the numbers and read various studies and found that in Canada and the U.S. (which doesn't start languages until 8th grade or older), if you exclude children who have a second language spoken at home, almost no students learn a second language fluently. It was like 2 or 3% go on to become fluent, which is the same rate of adults who become fluent in another language on their own. So if they didn't teach students a language in school at all, you'd have the exact same number of bilingual adults. That's even with Canada starting earlier and having everything official printed in French and English both; they did no better than the U.S.
@@ricnyc2759 I learned a little Spanish, but not enough to have even a basic conversation. I'm learning Polish on my own, as an adult, and in 2 years, I've learned more of it than I learned of Spanish in 3 years of school (despite Polish being much more difficult) and I can have a very basic conversation.
I try to watch elementary Korean level listening vowels hangul. Then to street introduction interviews, and if I'm really interested I go for reading Manhwa Manga (korean for comics) and k drama and game shows. Mybe a bit of korean slang too at the more advanced stage because strict standard textbook language isnt used in everyday conversations.
The question should be: how hepful the grammar pattern could be in the learning of a language? I guess that there'd be no ONE only universal answer for everyone and all languages. For example, I'm learning Japanese, konwing the verbs 3 groups classification and the transforming rules at an early stage of learning journay seem to be very helpful and time saving.
Hello Steve. Just what I needed. Grammar will fill up the blanks to undestand English "on the fly". Thank you. One more thing. I Want to improve my own mother language to use it more effectively. I am 29 years old and would like to reach a level of mastery. What could you recommend me? I think there is a pattern to follow along, just like you will do with any language. Would love your response. Thank you in advance!
I think of basic grammar (and also basic vocabulary from lists) as a sort of a grid. Once that basic grid is there, the massive information stream from inputting (lots of listening and reading) can stick to it (= get learned/memorized) easier/more efficient. I agree, that the time to build that grid (learning "the basics") should be shortened down as much as possible. (because usually it is not so enjoyable learning it). Thanks for the video!
Yup, give the grammar a quick once over, enough to help make content more comprehensible or help you notice thing.. I personally believe that "studying" grammar, doing exercises, or skill-building is not just useless but is actually harmful.
By studying basic French grammar (something I was able to do while reading comprehensive input in two other languages- since it was more like fact knowledge), I was able to increase my comprehension of French texts significantly and quite quickly. I don't think it would have been the same if I had tried to learn the grammar through input alone
As a beginner I made this mistake. I spent a lot of time on grammar and it was almost totally wasted. I had to make the mistake and later moved on to absorbing as much content as possible. That's what things accelerated. Grammar? Best to wait.
I think you should first study Grammar and then vocabulary. Many people stick with the grammar for a long time analyzing everything. It’s a waste of time and it will slow you down. The more exploded you are in the language the more you understand how it works. I believe you only need to study the basic grammar at first and then vocabulary and then after reading books and listening to the language your brain will adapt with that language. I have learnt a language without studying any grammatical rule at all
You know what that funny part is? I watched anime for three years and my grammar skyrocketed. It was my subconscious mind reading all those subtitles for three years, i became good at it. Lol
As a language learner and teacher I very much agree with what you are pointing out. A lot of harm has been done in the traditional way of teaching languages by giving students to understand that the good language learner is only that one that sticks to very systematically learning grammar rules. Learning a language is much more than that. Nevertheless, I find myself in the situation with adult learners that have had very little exposure to learning languages that they get lost with a more communicational approach. They sort of induce me to teaching them more focused on grammar than I would normally do. It's very difficult to make them build up confidence when it comes to speaking a language. Of course, you have to "negotiate" your approach with the student/s. It's not that easy at times to get them where I would like to steer them with my knowledge and understanding of many years of language learning and teaching.
I get where you're coming from, but to me it's just an impossible conundrum. At least when it comes to mandatory education. For me the "traditional" way worked fine, because I was also engaging with the language outside of class, and so the classes served as that small part of the learning process where a teacher helps to fill in the technical gaps. I completely understand that for students who weren't engaging with the language outside, the classes were mostly pointless, and potentially even harmful. At the same time, I don't know what the point of classes would be if there wasn't that focus on the technical aspects. Especially today with the internet. Converse with a language partner? I can do that for free on the internet, and it's just me and another person, i.e. much better than 20-30 people in a classroom. Input? Same thing. I wouldn't see why I'm doing that in class when it's something I could do more comfortably on my own time. I honestly don't know what the answer is. To me it seems that teachers are ultimately constrained by this impossible tension between learning for the sake of learning and the demands of society at large (certifications, employment requirements, etc.). Every time I try to dig deep into the issue, I walk away thinking that any real change to education would require much larger changes in how society operates, meaning it would be a truly Herculean task.
Is it better to watch things with English subtitles or not ? (English is my first language). English subtitles give me the direct meaning but I usually focus on them not the language. On the contrary, when I watch without subtitles I don't understand everything but I find i pay more attention to the words and what is being said and sentence structure
Hello. How many comments justifying laziness in studying grammar. Grammar of a language is the science of reading, writing and understanding correctly. A citizen of Africa who has lived in Paris or London for some time can speak more or less clearly, but you are unlikely to want to enjoy his speech or letters.
Hi Steve, thanks for this video 🌹 Sometimes you know every word in this sentence, but you can't understand the real meaning. How did you deal with it ? Have you encountered other thorny difficulties while reading and listening a lot? Do you choose to skip or deal with it in time?
Not schools! It is the Government who creates the curriculum in most countries and teachers have to follow it. Teachers hardly have any freedom to teach. They have to prepare pupils to pass exams. Have a look at the British GCSE and A-levels in languages and you will see how it is.
some people learn bettter or do better at languages and plus grammar is helpful but be smart and take the easiest route when it comes to grammar, just be smart. ps. exposure huh...what if i don't comprehend the half of what the audiobook is saying? for example 3 out of every 9 words like harry potter?
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To master the grammar of a language, spend most of your time with the language itself, in low-stress enjoyable situations, listening, reading and speaking. Occasionally look things up in the smallest grammar book you can find, but don't try to deliberately learn the rules, it's too hard to do.
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Nice man
Completly agree with his opinion on school. You should do a video focused on how schools teach languages wrong! I used to hate learning Spanish now I'm getting into it again.
Thank you for all your advices i am doing a lot of listening and reading and i feel that my progress is very quickly
Excellent video Steve! I couldn't agree more with you. I have even referred some of my subscribers to your channel because you discuss this topic in such a coherent, well articulated manner and I really believe they will benefit from your video. Keep up the good work amigo 😊
Grammar helps you notice
Maybe don't START with grammar, but once a pattern begins to form dimly, reading grammar helps push the fog away.
If you wanted to be capable of speaking a language, I would not recommend focussing on grammar intensively; However, if you wanted to write professionally in your target language, you should have spent time practising grammar. I think it depends on what you want to achieve.
Indeed. Btw, I think that sentence mining is a great way of studying grammar. To get a better idea of what the rules mean and how they are applied. There's no reason why we shouldn't mix grammar and content.
@Trevor F Get lost, you and your grammar.
No, I'd still assert that grammar isn't necessary.
I hate grammar, but I do think it's helpful to have some simple grammar sources around to help you occasionally try to figure out what is happening.
I prefer learning Persian poetry over learning Persian grammar.
My key takeaway from this lesson is that the best way to learn a language is to be exposed to lots of listening and lots of reading in an environment that's Low Stress.
Absolutely correct!!
You will be exposed to a language and you'll start to ask "why". That's when you need to see how the language elements are put together. And the way those elements are put together is called grammar.
in other words, not in school.
That’s the only way I’m willing to learn. Other ways are tedious.
Active grammar just causes stress imo. Takes the fun out of it.
The key point about grammar Steve Kaufmann makes is at 3:00 to 3:10: "So my feeling on grammar and other details of the language is that they can be introduced at any time. They should be introduced when the learner is interested in them." In other words, the best timing for and degree of attention to grammar depends on the learner. For example, I love grammar. Knowing grammar sooner rather than later gives me the ability to express more complex thoughts sooner rather than later. As a mathematician by training, I like to know the rules. Thinking about the rules while speaking doesn't slow me down; it speeds me up. Of course, my goal is eventually to speak the Standard version of the language correctly without having to think about it, and as Steve says, that comes with exposure and practice.
I agree for the most part. I do most of my learning with comprehensible input and speaking practice, but I like introducing small doses of grammar occasionally. It helps me be more accurate and make fewer mistakes when speaking.
However, learning grammar without regular reading and listening is pretty much useless, because you just don't remember the rules.
I am starting to learn polish, I am an English speaker, do you think starting off learning vocabulary is a good idea? If so, how long do you think I should learn vocabulary before I move onto things like grammar and structuring sentences etc?
@@broxo5033 The "100/500/1000 most common words" are exactly that, the most common. If you read enough, you'll learn them quickly because you'll see them over and over again.
My suggestion: Start with something easy with lots of repetitions, like the LingQ Mini Stories. Listen while reading, then download the audio and listen to the stories you've already read as many times as possible one after the other during your day, while walking, driving, doing chores...
@@broxo5033 kudos to you. Polish is my native lg and I honestly wouldn't even know where to start. I have a French friend who first learned all the little expressions and slang we use in a conversation like 'exactly', 'no way', 'that's awful'. That way he sounded native right off the bat ;)
@@chrolka6255 right now I know about over 50 words just randomly but I still have to learn how to put them in order to form a sentence. I also have an advantage because my girlfriend is polish and my main motivation is to learn it because of two reasons, 1. We plan on moving to Poland in the next few years and 2. Her parents Don’t speak a word of English so I’m learning it so I can have a proper conversation with them 👍
@@broxo5033 As far as I don't totally agree with Mr Kaufmann when it comes to English and French grammar (they are just too simple not to study them), I do agree that it's probably useless to study Polish grammar extensively -- it's just too darn complicated for a novice. I would start with simple phrases. Maybe ask your girlfriend to only talk to you in Polish for an hour each day, but nothing complicated. No discussions about politics, just a simple "what time is it?", "are you hungry?", "what shall we eat today?", point to a thing and ask "what is it?", ask "are you ready to go?" before going out, ask "where is...?" if you can't find something etc. All that in Polish of course :)
This is so true when it comes to teaching Irish here in Ireland. Thanks to English occupation, we obviously speak English as a majority but we learn Irish in school from around ages 4-18, yet we can’t hold a conversation in Irish naturally after all that time. We learn poems and essays off by heart, but absolutely no emphasis on speaking. In fact, it’s often taught through English! I only became fluent myself after living in an Irish-speaking community for a few weeks and making mistakes. I wish the Department of Education in Ireland would watch this!😭
It is my wish to one day learn and speak irish... just to show solidarity with an oppressed culture and also to stick it up to imperialist britain.. i am currently learning french though...
@simplesimon hmm..interesting...good to know there is another side...i am talking about the uprisings that happened in the last 50 years...
The main thing I remember from Irish class in school is "Leathan le leathan, caol le caol" lol I wish my Irish were better though I still understand quite a bit. My teacher was terrible. I went on to study French and Spanish in college though and now I teach them. Ba mhaith a chur fheabhas ar mo chuid Gaeilge!
I love Irish. Plan to master it. I'm a Spaniard in the Far East. No need to learn Irish. Just love. The Irish should see my series on the overrated English empire.
I like to start with a little grammar when learning a new language, like Teach Yourself or something like that. Just to get an introduction to the language. After I move to larger doses of comprehensible input, and only much later do I return to grammar for purposes of honing in skilsl
Hi, can you give me some examples how can I use input please?
@@donnamansilla8600 podcasts, books, shows, movies, youtube. You can use them intensively (looking up words, making sentence flashcards), extensively (more passive learning, just reading or listenint through and seeing what you pick up as you go along - my favorite). The n+1 principle from Stephen Krashen helps with this. Lots of videos on the internet too about comprehensible input
@@anduril2695 thank youu
@@donnamansilla8600 no hay de que
I do agree with you. I am on the language number 4 and when I would like to know how to make sentences quickly, the grammar is necessary ( specially at the beginning. )But the end of the day, everyone is different..what works for you, works for you.
totally agree.We need a video about noticing.Thanks steve
So, so, so true! I studied Spanish at school for 5 years and I thought I was doing well. There then came an opportunity to go to Spain in my final year which also happened to be a week before my mock exams. I took it and absolutely loved it, however I really struggled understanding people and I couldn't put many sentences together at all. I brought a dictionary and Google Translate with me, which looking back was the worst thing I could have done. I was forced to speak to communicate, especially as we stayed with someone who didn't know English. After I got back, I got an A on my Spanish exam that I was getting a C on before. I think people don't realise how powerful immersion and learning through necessity actually are. I encourage everyone to put down the grammar books and dictionaries and start focusing on comprehension. Sure, you may not understand much in the beginning which is fine but I guarantee that the more you are exposed to the language, the more you will remember as our brains are sponges. That is how we all learnt our native languages, proof is that we could actually speak before we started school !Creo en ustedes, vamos a hacerlo!
Your experience is very similar to mine. I couldn’t agree more! Exposure to the language is the key.
Was learning Spanish the purpose of which was to pass exams? Kinda stupid motivation.
its school go figure@@Kitiwake
"Learn the language in an enjoyable low-stress environment." That's my philosophy to teaching English too - it's nice to hear an experienced learner who agrees!
Exactly, you have to surround yourself with language and things you like in it.
I noticed that with learning English, I was really bad at school with English & grammar, I've always used the wrong tense and stuff, but after school, I started using English more often, just for me, as a hobby to look up some cool things in the English language, I barely understood the songs or movies, practically been zero non-fluent, but after a while, year or two by surrounding myself everywhere with it, watching movies, googling everything in English it made me fluent, so yes, it is true, you got to just practice it on a daily basis, if you have a phone, change the language to one you want to learn, google everything with that language, plus it's very easy nowadays with google translate or the whole page translate online before that learning process was really slow, I learned (or got acquainted with) like a few or five words a day max. Now it's very easy.
BTW, I thought that I am bad at English when I watched a movie because it's always some words I never understand, hear for the first time, but then I watched THE SAME MOVIE in my native Russian language and it dawned on me that I never knew those words in a first-place even in my native language, plus I realized that I think differently in English and Russian when it's English, my mind is always wandering around thinking about how stuff works, but when it's in my native Russian lang it's always everywhere but self evolvement.
New language is a new skill, not just a language, it's a skill of self-developing and figuring how stuff works, I mean, sometimes when I need to do my work, thinking and googling in English makes me think rather when it's in Russian, Russian lang brings old me, the one that just wanders around without real purpose.
Alexius, this is SO helpful. I've done the same thing in studying Chinese. I can speak some Russian as well. I've traveled to Russia 7 times. Thank you for explaining what your experience has been. I completely agree with you.
@@murphy903 wow, that's great that you share similarities with my experience! Just want to hug or shake your hand! Good job! Never been to any English speaking countries, been to Italy, Milan, thought I'm gonna have some troubles with communication but seems like my little skills with Latin, English and my second native language Ukrainian made it easier to understand Italian and almost everyone understood English.
I bet Russian was pretty hard for you because it's a totally different language if you never tried any Slavic lingvos :D
Yeah, me too. I got frustrated whenever I took my english exam because some of the grammer patterns confused me. But after my high school, and during this quarantine, I noticed that my listening and reading skills improved more than before. And as you mentioned, I also look up some topics which intrigue me on Google. So, the point is surround youself your the language and make the learning fun.
@@cry2love Nice, thanks for sharing your experience.
I'll follow your advice.
@@imrebenedect please do, don't forget to practice daily, you'll see thr difference, don't give up! I believe in you, I know you can, I did it, you can too!
I couldn't agree with you more Steve. You're the man . I trust completely in your wise pieces of advice. Thanks a lot!
I enjoy doing grammar exercises, it's like solving puzzles. It's a good cognitive exercise too.
Do you know about a good app for grammar exercises?
@@adi-tiny Sorry, I don't use apps. I just use laptop to study online.
@@Jasshcsm ok thanks 🙏
If it's fun for you it's advisable to keep doing it
Learning Japanese currently. I used to focus a lot on grammar and skimp out on vocab, but at some point I decided to just touch on some grammar points, do a few minutes of practice, and not worry about it too much after that. I think having a broad vocabulary is far more important that knowing a ton of grammar points.
أشكرك على النصيحة المفيدة , اتفق أكثر مايضيع وقتي بتعلم اللغة هو القواعد اللغوية والفائدة قليلة في النهاية , التركيز على الاستماع وتكوين الأنماط أفضل بكثير . شكرا جزيلًا ستيفن
I gave up on a French course because there was so much emphasis on grammar. fortunately we got a Spanish teacher who thinks the way you do. For Russian i look at a lot of sentences and what they mean and am gradually seeing the grammatical patterns.
I'm totally with you on this point. Back in time, I used to study grammar in detail but never practiced speaking and listening. Guess what? I got better at grammar to an extent, but I was still not able to speak. Sometimes I hesitated to pronounce certain words due to lack of confidence about their pronunciation. I learned grammar without having clear goal; I thought English is all about grammar, so let's learn it. I practiced grammar drills and all that sort of stuff, but I missed the most important part that was " to get enough exposure of the language."
On the other hand, I completely stopped learning grammar two years back and put myself into speaking the language. Although I grasped quite good command over grammar, my speaking sucked. Then I realized that speaking is different from learning grammar. I continued speaking more and more along with listening. After lots of exposure to the language, those rules I learned actually started making sense to me. Now I do what you shared. If I am uncertain about some sentence structure, I simply look for it once or twice, including examples. That's it. My brain recognizes it and starts observing such patterns while listening or reading something.
Thanks!
I agree with the points made here. In my past 10 months in studying Korean, I nearly never "focused" on the grammar. That doesn't mean I didn't study it--on the contrary, it's the main exercise I use with my online tutor to keep some form of structured study going. But, the key here is I used the lessons to "unlock" that part of my hearing where I would then recognize that grammar point the next time I hear it.
There's a saying in Korean that when translated, goes something like "you won't know that you heard something unless you know it". So, when my tutor taught me -은/ㄴ 데, from that point on, I heard it EVERYWHERE. That's how I've naturally acquired the proper use of a grammar point.
Grammar is after you become fluent in the target language. This was one of the best videos of the channel so far.
Not actually, without knowing some grammar you don't become fluent, if you're fluent you know a lotta grammar actually, even if you're not aware of it, even if you don't know the technical grammatical terms. Remember: grammar is basically just how the words organize in a language.
Ps.: The only grammar that you should only study after you've become at least conversation in a language is the NORMATIVE grammar.
Hmm to be honest anyway you should learning to grammar part in any language which you learn, at least in order to build really good sentences and make not so big mistakes in that language which you're learning, but on the hand you can learn with help to different things like different videos on TH-cam in that language which you're learning or just with different people, but I agree with you. You are wonderful polyglot which I saw ever, thank you for your work.
Grammar helps us notice. It expedites the process of noticing.
sehr gut Mr steve Kaufman. ich bin Mehrdad und wohne in iran. ich habe viele sprachen kennengelernt und ich hab noch nie die Grammatik regeln gelesen. wenn wir mit anderen menschen die Kommunikation haben können, das bedeutet wir kennen die sprache. our mind is so powerful to manage grammar in sub-consciousness, i never read grammar. confidence and believe in your self is so important. mi piace la lingua Italian e ..... .
My nephew speaks english better, even fluently, just because watching cartoon regularly. We live in Indonesia.
I heard your interview in
English-speaking Success. Before I watched your video, I had the very similar approach, but I didn't certain. Now you convinced me, in my directions, thanks.
Your videos are always very interesting, Steve! I agree with you that we shouldn't STUDY grammar. That's also what I say to my students: Focus on listening and reading and your brain will naturally pick grammar up, but if you wanna search a little bit about it, go on!
This video came in the right moment, I was trying to get started on Russian grammar and it's so huge and hard. But even though it's hard, that's what motives me in this aspect. Great video, as always!
Before starting to study English in a course, I was focused only on grammar and I couldn't speak, but now I can speak because I focused on phrases. I try learning phrases and how they are structured to create my own sentences. Since I have been studying on this way, I have improved a lot and I consider that grammar is not as good as practicing every single day to improve yourself.
Thank you, Steve! From a lover of grammar..., and yes, I guess you're right. This is a good way of approaching grammar. Recently I heard that in India the sacred Sanskrit language taught in a similar way: students first have to memorize a couple of texts and grammatical explanation will start afterwards. And that for a so-called "dead" language...)
I agree up to a point, not all brains learn the same way and each person has her own way of learning.
SO TRUE and it's THE WAY I teach online a foreign language to my students. I learned 4 languages that way and become fluent after months of exposure to the language.
I was born in the 90s in Vietnam, most of my English knowledge comes from learning grammars and vocabulary at school, those big thick grammar books and list of all present/past/past perfect vocab lists, I had to learn them all. I was even proud of it. Any small grammar mistake is a shame and I tried hard to avoid it, at the same time laugh when I found one from other people. Back then we don't have Internet, nor any native speaker around to talk to, and every test asks every small details of grammar, so I and others learned it the hardest way possible. Also I believe that's the only way for us to learn English back then
now things have changed, Internet makes the world closer, information is everywhere, and people start bashing grammar learning. I feel angry at first, how the hell you use the language without its building block of grammar and vocab. but on the second thought I think maybe these people are right. I know lots of grammar, but when it comes to speaking or writing I struggle to keep the fluency by all the rules I learned, and it's hard. so hard. the only way to fix this is to expose more to the language by speaking and reading more and imitate native people, which is essentially what I should have done from the beginning!!!
anyway just a random thought accumulated after a long time seeing these 'stop learning grammar' video
Generally speaking I agree with what you say. I have recently taken up learning Turkish which works in a strange and beautiful way to a native indoeuropean language speaker - English in my case. I find its grammar truly a thing of beauty in its logic, regularity and inherent simplicity. This means it is weirdly both easy and difficult at the same time. Without understanding how it is put together (grammar) you would not be able to look up a suffix (-tür say) occurring in one context because it is really (-dir) in disguise. Only understanding the grammar points you in the right direction. Another thing I find useful is having a short grammar of the language in German. There is lots of material on Turkish from German publishers for historical reasons (Gastarbeiter and offspring) and it helps me to maintain my German painlessly at the same time. I think you would have to be a child to work out what is going on from listening and reading alone and I am ancient. I like grammar.
I agree. I think it's quite important to study the grammar a bit right off the bat as that would help immensely to get a grasp on how a basic sentence is formed especially if you're learning a language from a whole different language family group (Asian-Turkic language family in your case). Bu arada başarılar dilerim! :)
I think learning grammar is more important if your target language is too different from your native one. Especially, if it's a highly-synthetic language, which has lots of forms. As for Turkish, it's indeed different to understand at first, when you know nothing about its grammar.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Language is about communication, sharing information, exchange and not about rules.
I absolutely agree with what you’ve said here. It’s important to learn the specific details yes but I always think it’s better to learn it as you need it. For example if you wanted to talk about what you did yesterday then yes you need the past tense but I would never start there
Yeah sir! It is exactly how l learn French, Spanish, and Italian. Just look into thin piece of grammar book when curiosity kicks in.
Contrary to what I've been told for years on end, I don't have to strictly stick to grammar books, when studying a foreign language. As a matter of fact when I want to learn a new language, I listen to audio books, read ebooks, newspapers and magazines, often translate in my mind whole sets of phrases, sentences and idioms. Grammar books are the books I quietly browse in my living room at the end the week, when things get a bit more complicated as far as writing in a foreign language is concerned.
The way I see it, training one's ear to foreign language conversations is the best and most affordable way to learn things well.
Completely agree with your opinion on partially shunning grammar and I say that as a French and Spanish teacher who detests teaching grammar. I used to teach it religiously and found it didn't benefit many of my students in their language acquisition. So one day as a gruelling lesson trying to get students to understand the passé composé in French, I thought where the students could express themselves in the past without all these complex grammar rules. This is what I'm trying to do now!
I am thinking You must have a good happy medium, because if you are using only grammar, you won't speak and understand well, but if you are using just practice, you will understand but you will get a lot of mistakes in sentences
This is very true in my case. I learn mostly on comprehension and through videos, movies or audio books. And through that process I learn more and more about grammar too, without actually studying and focusing on grammar. I gradually learn it through time. Your channel is very motivating especially because I learn a language same way you suggest but my problem is consistency.
I very much agree. Studying or deliberately learning grammar works in only very few situations and is just supplementary / there to fill the gaps.
However. I do tend to notice and "get tripped up" by all kinds of minor differences and details during that low stress enjoyable exposure - to the point where I can't concentrate on the "bigger picture" or "global understanding". So for me a (thick, comprehensive) grammar helps immensly to "make sense of what I'm noticing" and to understand what I get tripped up by and why (though that too is an instance of "look it over and forget it". It's just to get an overview, to know what's happening / that there is something happening. - And to know that the time will come where it all falls into place. But that time is not now). Though this too very much depends on the person who is learning, I imagine. I have a background in linguistics - which might very well mean I get tripped up by way more details and differences than other people (because that is, in essence, what linguistics is all about). I hated grammar and grammar books in school and all but failed pretty much all grammar-based tests (regardless of the language. Even in my native language). But since then these big, technical comprehensive grammars have really grown on me 😂
Long story short: Grammars are a tool. Like every other tool some are more useful than others - and how useful it is to you mostly depends on you.
Steve, I love your take on language learning. Very inspiring! Thanks for all you do! I will definitely continue to follow your content
I agree with you, but learn a little bit of grammar in russian (conjugations) really helped me a lot. Before I did not know why some verbs ends up in "ют" or "ят" for exemple... And learn about conjugations and other things made me understand the language. Those things about the word change, it I get naturally, like, I know I must say "я люблю зиму" and not "я люблю зима" (I love winter). Why? I don't know, but I know :D
Well that's it, I think it can be helpful sometimes, but learn by input is easier and prove to ourself that we are able to learn any language like a baby.
Thank you Steve for the great work you are doing. So nice to just sit down and listen to what you have to say and take in parts of your own experience.
I 100% agree with you. As a Hugarian native who had learned 9 languages (although can only speak in 4 or 5 of them), I found books and grammar very helpful in the beginning when I have 0 info about how a certain language works (i find it necessary), but after like A2 or B1 level, I find reading or listening to material written by natives in my target language and learning patterns and rules by exposure both more natural and more effective. I might not understand 100% how a given grammar works, but I will use it correctly every time, as long as I have seen and heard it used correctly. I recognize the pattern and my brain knows that I should use this pattern there, this word here, etc.It feels not only more natural, but more fun to me, as I am learning not by being hunched over a grammar book, but rather reading/listening to thnigs I like in my target languag and having fun in the meantime.
In my experience, grammar books and such are about 20-30% of the learning, and exposure is about 70-80%. I had not even studied English before primary school 5th grade, but because I had played computer games in English, I already had a very basic vocabulary and a basic understanding on how the language works, and I wasn't even in my early teens at that time, with 0 interest in learning languages.
Absolutely agreed, approach the language learning as an adventure into a story, an interesting land. See if you can enjoy remembering some words and expression. Have fun! It shouldn't be a competition. Nobody should be forced to learn a foreign language unless they want it.
Our brains are wired for grammar. Let it form the neural pathways from natural use and training.
Grammar is descriptive, not prescriptive of speech.
I agree
It's both. The "debate" between so-called descriptivists and prescriptivists has unfortunately muddied the waters quite a bit.
@@bofbob1 Children can be completely functional without prescriptive grammar. PG only starts to come into play when writing more formal structured texts once the grasp of the language is complete or for formal speeches.
Language can be learned and absorbed simply by exposure and immersion, your brain figures out 80% of it, while external grammar instruction then refines what you already know.
@@lohphat I wouldn't view it that way, but I do see what you mean. I suppose I'd just say that I think the scope of use of prescriptive grammar rules goes well beyond structured text and formal speeches. There's a lot of variety in registers between the very formal and child speech.
What's tricky is that there are prescriptive rules used in certain communities/circumstances that aren't subconsciously "acquired" at all. And the fact that native speakers have to consciously monitor those grammar points means that an SLA student won't learn them without explicit instruction either. That mismatch between prescribed rules and the natural gravity of language can be found in all levels of formality and age.
Anyway, all I'm getting at by saying the debate has muddied the waters is that there's actually a lot of overlap between "descriptive" and "prescriptive". A lot of overlap, but also some mismatches. In the end, I think the only real issue to come out of that debate is attitude. People who lean towards "prescriptivism" need to be careful that they're not discriminating or being needlessly judgmental (it doesn't help a student to say "the way you naturally speak is wrong"). People who lean towards "descriptivism" need to be careful that they're not ignoring the social reality of language registers, and the importance of them for language learners (it doesn't help a student to say "don't fret, just speak the way you do and you will never face any social/economic consequences because of it").
Personally, I try to mix exposure and grammar. But I also know from experience that a lot of exposure will lead to you naturally knowing when to use a specific word, conjunction etc. But studying grammar every now and then can help you to clear away doubts, making you truly understand why you use a certain conjunction/particle/article etc at a certain moment. Whatsmore, I believe that studying grammar occasionally can help you to construct sentences ans express yourself more accurately. But I really agree with that exposure is very important as well.
I could not agree more with some of the things stated in this video. When I first started learning Japanese a few years ago I was so into the technicalities of the language and so I would specifically spend hours a day learning just kanji, and hours on another day learning just grammar, and hours learning just vocabulary…without context and just out of a book designed to teach you rather than with real Japanese content.
After a bit I realized that maybe I should be reading more in this language than about this language….I know it sounds like a no brainer, but at the time it was not something that came to mind as easily, being the first language I learned by myself….so about maybe 5 months into starting to learn Japanese I dropped all books that were designed to teach me the language in favor of books targeted towards the Japanese audience…books that already expected you to know Japanese. I did keep my kanji studies though, because the more you know what a kanji means and how to pronounce it the easier the reading will become….
While this approach worked work a couple of years, I did reach sort of a plateau in terms of learning…..where I felt I wasn’t really learning anything but maybe new words….that I probably would never even use in real life….The problem is, I would come across grammar patterns without knowing they were grammar patterns….and so I would not know how to interpret that….
So about a year ago I started looking at books (again) that directly teach me Japanese….but that don’t throw me into like 50 exercises on how to use a single grammar pattern…instead I started with the 日本語総まとめ series, on only the grammar portion…and because of the structure of the book, I could spend maybe like 10-15 mins a day looking at maybe 3-5 new grammar patterns…this, I feel, has sky rocketed my understanding of the written language and I really spend less than 20 minutes a day looking at it (of course, this is not counting review of older points….which in my case I use anki and takes about an extra 20 minutes a day)….already up to N1 in the series..and while I could not say I can use all this grammar, I can certainly understand the language a lot better so I definitely don’t see it as a waste of time :)…as long as most of my time is spent on consuming the language rather than learning about technical details…I think it’s a good happy medium :)
Came at just the right time. Thank you, master!
I love grammar. Grammar helps know where words must go to form a sentence. "Don't learn math rules". The demonization of grammar needs to stop.
I love your videos and I completely agree with you that it's not necessary to deliberately study grammar because grammar will come naturally from being exposed to the language; and you are certainly right, schools focusses on grammar because it's easily evaluable and schools are more interested in evaluating than in really helping learners.
But what about if I like to study grammar? If I enjoy it, I think it's ok ...
Sorry, Steve. Not sure about this one. Grammar is a framework that can be used to build new learning.. to unlock and help you see NEW patterns. You need the template and the rule book to provide the context for what you’re hearing so it should come early in the process. If you learn mostly from hearing and committing to speech patterns, you may be learning the language incorrectly and you’re learning in isolation. With so many exceptions, you may be hardwiring yourself into bad habits.
Steve I am doing the listening, and it's ok not knowing quite a grammar in order to do so, but when it comes to reading books oh come on man! knowing those boring grammars is a must! By the way, Eu sou brasileiro
Honestly I just really enjoy learning grammar and working through grammar books so… we’ll do what works best for you and what keeps you coming back :)
The only thing I do not understand, how are you reading? Are you translating every word? Or, are you searching up all the Grammer points? Or are you just reading without understanding anything? Please, can you tell me? Love you're video's BTW.❤
I didn't know you lived in Canada that's cool, if I ever come across you on the streets i'll definitely say hi.
I have learning disabilities and I had a good Spanish teacher in secondary school. She used lots of pictures and music and games when teaching us. There was only little grammar studying. I learned a lot and Spanish classes were fun and I got good grades. When I got to another school teacher recommend me to study more Spanish on online course. I tried and didn't understand anything of the exercises. Even though I knew already Spanish quite well. I quitted the course.
I love learning languages but my main goal is more to understand them than speak myself.
This was a good point and explanation. I think this also depends a little bit in the language and in the purpose of the student. Great video
Superb video Steve. Thanks for sharing your knowledges.
Today's content is very helpful for me. Thank you much！
I've been learning English for about 3 years, German for 9 months and German goes smoothly than English.
Today, when I woken up I was thinking about grammar. Should we really focus on it most of our time or not? Then I realized that I wana try a new approach by making short dialogues, since it's innatural to just learn a language by concentrating at the grammar and unilizing books all the time. Thanks Steave!
Great, I feel exactly the same way. Language is a tool needed to be used other than tested.
I see your point but I'd still have to disagree: Being German (married to a linguist & French teacher), I "properly" learned English and French (so I studied the grammar rules) and also had some success with (Han) Chinese, Italian and Danish. Learning grammar IS hard but there is a reward: Only knowing grammar intuitively (immersion / practice) AND cognitively (knowing and applying the rules) makes you a pro. Don't become just a language "collector" - there is *much* more fun in being able to *really" say what you want and to have really meaningful conversations.
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Now here is the thing: I have seen US/UK books on (French) grammar and they were bad. They were bad because they were trying to make it "easy" but that also made them superficial, which in turn made them ineffective and inefficient. THESE grammar books truly were a waste of time - and that's probably where your advice is coming from. Therefore, I'd say: 80% practice & immersion and 20% bad-ass hard-core grammar (university level but in small doses) is a dang good recipe to get beyond the "babbling away" level.
With big pleasure watching your videos from Russia
You changed my view on learning languages. I've been taught in school English mostly through grammar excercises. But I am going to learn German on my own with more listening and reading and less grammar.
Defenitely going to use your app also!)
You need to practice natural english as well, listening and talking.
@@Frankybeanselevators Ofc. It takes time
Since I like to talk early on, I like to learn grammar patterns - the word order I need and certain basic ideas. Like how do I say, “I am...” , “I have...”. I don’t really care to know the why or the rule early on. Eventually, with practice and input (watching an insane amount of tv) more details fill in.
Admittedly, Grammar is my second weakness with speaking being my first! 😫 I have a confidence issue with speaking that Grammar provides an excuse for me to getaway from it all together! I suck at both of them but Grammar is the lesser evil for me. 😓
Honestly? Most germans totaly suck at grammar and dont use it well. Maybe like 10% of my friends have decent grammar. If you use no grammar, except maybe for the absolut basics, it might sound funny but will be totaly understandable.
Hey Steve. I'm sure you're very aware how English training in China is all about grammar because, as you said, it can easily be tested. The 'exam' is the what it's all about in China. Learning to actually use English is of little concern. My guess would be that 95% of those who spend 10 years studying English will never be able to say more than, 'Hi! How are you?'
We use the same ideas and concepts to teach with the goal and practice in mind of English fluency as you, Krashen and other notable people in language learning in the world prescribe to. We are sold on 'comprehensible input' as being the key to fluency.
Our stats have proved to us that we can get a student conversationally fluent to the point of not needing any translation in class except for new vocabulary words. It can be achieved in 175-225 classroom hours and following our prescribed daily assignments outside of class. When our students start middle school here in our school in China, they only get classroom instruction in English. They score quite high on the school's English exams even though academic English in China is far different from native English. (We see it nearly as a whole separate subject.) I've reviewed hundreds of exams written by Chinese English teachers and have found that the teacher's grammar is very, very abnormal (and often wrong) to a native English speaker (and especially a teacher like me who's been doing this for more than 30 years; 10 years of which, were in China).
We introduce grammar that is easily explained and quite useful.
We don't teach or give exams with the intent of tricking the student. We certainly challenge them and stretch them to their potential, but that can be done without the intent of deceiving them in exams. (I've talked to hundreds of Chinese English teachers and most relish the idea of tricking a student in an attempt to show their superiority).
Our method, which closely follows you and Krashen, has help our students to achieve goals that they never imagined before. We've put students in Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Cambridge, University of Chicago, USC, Johns Hopkins, University of Toronto and other top schools. Our average TOEFL student will get 110 on the iBT and 720 on the SAT.
Training schools here, market themselves by offering free assessment tests. Every student scores horribly on their exams in order to get them to sign up with the school. It's a pathetic practice, but a reality. I know a teacher who does these assessments and she actually laughs about their method of scoring the exam. The intent is to make sure that the student receives a score of less than 60% which is the pass/fail mark in China. I asked her, "So some students score quite well." She giggled and said, "Some students get an actual score of more than 90-95%, but we aren't allowed to give them a score above 60%." The parents, of course, don't know any better.
I'm with you brother. I just renewed my Lingq subscription and am studying Chinese. Thanks for all you do!!!
This was really helpful..talked about exactly the kind of stuff i was fretting over
I know what you are talking about Steve. The main goal to learn some new language is the fact that you can communicate with someone in that language. Grammar is just a detail. Important,but definitely not the main issue to care about at a first glance.
The real problem with a traditional, grammar-based approach to languages (one that is talked about often enough) -- EXCEPTIONS! I’ve been teaching French for over 10 years. Over that time, I pretty quickly switched from a grammar/textbook based approach to a TPRS/story based approach.
If you look at a typical textbook, you will find this pattern: a simple, useful grammar rule is presented -- followed by pages of ALL the exceptions to this “general” rule. It’s impossible to memorize all this rule/exception information (except to cram in short-term memory for an exam). So generally a waste of time and effort. But you can’t just learn the “general” rules; they may only get you 60%-70% of the way to using the language. The only way to deal effectively with both general rules and exceptions is to do lots of reading & listening of comprehensible input. In this way, you will see the general rules demonstrated over and over again, AND you will also encounter the higher-frequency exceptions that are worth getting to know.
I'd also add that using stories is SO much more enjoyable to students and teachers alike...
I second this. I recently completed a TPRS workshop and finally grew confident enough to use story telling with my students. It's been a complete game changer!
I thought this myself when I first looked at declensions in Polish. There's no way to memorize all the exceptions to the rules. I didn't even bother to try to learn the exceptions to the verb conjugations; I very quickly learned the endings (once I realized that the verbs were conjugating) and the important irregular verbs, like "to be," I picked up easily because they were repeated so many times. I don't think about conjugating them from the root word, I just think about the word I need because they're in my memory separately.
I introduced my tutor to the TPRS concept and she was game to try it. We quite off-script pretty quickly, but it's evolved into something we both enjoy. I am actually the one telling her a story now, which I make up as I go, with her also contributing input by asking questions and making suggestions (she's good at plot twists). She takes notes and I notice where she decides one word is better to use than another and we can discuss the difference between the synonyms. Afterwards, I take the notes and flesh them out into a readable chapter and send it to her to proofread. Then I upload it to LingQ and can re-read it and practice the new words.
In other words, I make my own graded readers because I can't find enough in Polish. I find the writing practice to be really helpful because I will put what I want to say in Google Translate one sentence at a time and read what it gives me. It has a much better chance of getting the grammar right, but I can often tell when it didn't get what I really meant and I will reword the English to get a different output in Polish. That allows me to tinker with the language and see where it phrases things a bit differently than we do in English. It's like learning how something works by putting it together from a kit.
Hello, I am having a hard time understanding this situation. How do you learn the grammar rules of a language you know nothing about just by reading? Because you don't know, you can't see the rules when you look at that book. You just read it plainly.
My target language is english. I have learned it for 2 months. I will learn grammar in english way , no't in my mother language.
Teacher, I love your pieces of advice. Thanks a bunch regards from Colombia
There was a famous Canadian-Cuban-Mexican actress originally from Toronto named Fannie Kauffman "Vitola". She has many classic, old movies out there to practice Spanish.
I like to see something a few times like in French I saw the use of "se" before a verb a bunch and could kinda figure out what it sort of was but wasn't sure, at that point I'll go look up why its there grammatically. I also like the phrase "trust your brain" thats very true!
In my opinion, it’s ok to have
a quick look to lessons, see the examples and that’s all,
For instance, in Italian sometimes you will say il, sometimes lo : it’s not bad to know the rules about that.
Really!!! I kept grammar aside from this very day. Let's see. To be honest A J Hoge hate grammar! Thanks for your quick video:)
It’s important to have subject verb and object agreements to sound fluent. Usage is grammar.
Hi Steve! I love your videos! Thanks!!
I grew up in Canada and I remember we started learning French in grade 4 and were required to take it until grade 9 (you could continue on if you wanted after). I remember even still in grade 9 hardly anyone could even conjugate Avoir in the present active tense. That's literally the first thing they try to teach and incredibly simple and it didn't even sink in over 6 years. What a waste of tax dollars.
I think it was Krashen who crunched the numbers and read various studies and found that in Canada and the U.S. (which doesn't start languages until 8th grade or older), if you exclude children who have a second language spoken at home, almost no students learn a second language fluently. It was like 2 or 3% go on to become fluent, which is the same rate of adults who become fluent in another language on their own. So if they didn't teach students a language in school at all, you'd have the exact same number of bilingual adults. That's even with Canada starting earlier and having everything official printed in French and English both; they did no better than the U.S.
And how many languages did you learn?
@@ricnyc2759 I didn't learn any languages in school
@@ricnyc2759 I learned a little Spanish, but not enough to have even a basic conversation. I'm learning Polish on my own, as an adult, and in 2 years, I've learned more of it than I learned of Spanish in 3 years of school (despite Polish being much more difficult) and I can have a very basic conversation.
I try to watch elementary Korean level listening vowels hangul. Then to street introduction interviews, and if I'm really interested I go for reading Manhwa Manga (korean for comics) and k drama and game shows. Mybe a bit of korean slang too at the more advanced stage because strict standard textbook language isnt used in everyday conversations.
that`s very insightful. Much respect
The question should be: how hepful the grammar pattern could be in the learning of a language? I guess that there'd be no ONE only universal answer for everyone and all languages. For example, I'm learning Japanese, konwing the verbs 3 groups classification and the transforming rules at an early stage of learning journay seem to be very helpful and time saving.
Hello Steve.
Just what I needed. Grammar will fill up the blanks to undestand English "on the fly". Thank you.
One more thing. I Want to improve my own mother language to use it more effectively. I am 29 years old and would like to reach a level of mastery. What could you recommend me? I think there is a pattern to follow along, just like you will do with any language.
Would love your response. Thank you in advance!
I think of basic grammar (and also basic vocabulary from lists) as a sort of a grid. Once that basic grid is there, the massive information stream from inputting (lots of listening and reading) can stick to it (= get learned/memorized) easier/more efficient. I agree, that the time to build that grid (learning "the basics") should be shortened down as much as possible. (because usually it is not so enjoyable learning it). Thanks for the video!
Yup, give the grammar a quick once over, enough to help make content more comprehensible or help you notice thing.. I personally believe that "studying" grammar, doing exercises, or skill-building is not just useless but is actually harmful.
By studying basic French grammar (something I was able to do while reading comprehensive input in two other languages- since it was more like fact knowledge), I was able to increase my comprehension of French texts significantly and quite quickly. I don't think it would have been the same if I had tried to learn the grammar through input alone
Mr. Kaufmann actually looks like Steve Martin.
How encouraging your techniques are! You are saying that we can and should play with languages if we want to master them, right?
Maybe...that's right.....?...
but learn some grammar will help people to understand well
As a beginner I made this mistake. I spent a lot of time on grammar and it was almost totally wasted. I had to make the mistake and later moved on to absorbing as much content as possible. That's what things accelerated. Grammar? Best to wait.
Thanks for the video, so what tiny book of gramar like you recommended on your video i can use to learn english?
I think you should first study Grammar and then vocabulary. Many people stick with the grammar for a long time analyzing everything. It’s a waste of time and it will slow you down. The more exploded you are in the language the more you understand how it works. I believe you only need to study the basic grammar at first and then vocabulary and then after reading books and listening to the language your brain will adapt with that language. I have learnt a language without studying any grammatical rule at all
When I started to learn Fijian and Tongan the only resources available to me at the time were grammar books.
You know what that funny part is? I watched anime for three years and my grammar skyrocketed. It was my subconscious mind reading all those subtitles for three years, i became good at it. Lol
Interesting. Thanks
As a language learner and teacher I very much agree with what you are pointing out. A lot of harm has been done in the traditional way of teaching languages by giving students to understand that the good language learner is only that one that sticks to very systematically learning grammar rules. Learning a language is much more than that. Nevertheless, I find myself in the situation with adult learners that have had very little exposure to learning languages that they get lost with a more communicational approach. They sort of induce me to teaching them more focused on grammar than I would normally do. It's very difficult to make them build up confidence when it comes to speaking a language. Of course, you have to "negotiate" your approach with the student/s. It's not that easy at times to get them where I would like to steer them with my knowledge and understanding of many years of language learning and teaching.
I get where you're coming from, but to me it's just an impossible conundrum. At least when it comes to mandatory education.
For me the "traditional" way worked fine, because I was also engaging with the language outside of class, and so the classes served as that small part of the learning process where a teacher helps to fill in the technical gaps. I completely understand that for students who weren't engaging with the language outside, the classes were mostly pointless, and potentially even harmful. At the same time, I don't know what the point of classes would be if there wasn't that focus on the technical aspects. Especially today with the internet. Converse with a language partner? I can do that for free on the internet, and it's just me and another person, i.e. much better than 20-30 people in a classroom. Input? Same thing. I wouldn't see why I'm doing that in class when it's something I could do more comfortably on my own time.
I honestly don't know what the answer is. To me it seems that teachers are ultimately constrained by this impossible tension between learning for the sake of learning and the demands of society at large (certifications, employment requirements, etc.). Every time I try to dig deep into the issue, I walk away thinking that any real change to education would require much larger changes in how society operates, meaning it would be a truly Herculean task.
Is it better to watch things with English subtitles or not ? (English is my first language). English subtitles give me the direct meaning but I usually focus on them not the language. On the contrary, when I watch without subtitles I don't understand everything but I find i pay more attention to the words and what is being said and sentence structure
Hello. How many comments justifying laziness in studying grammar. Grammar of a language is the science of reading, writing and understanding correctly. A citizen of Africa who has lived in Paris or London for some time can speak more or less clearly, but you are unlikely to want to enjoy his speech or letters.
Hi Steve, thanks for this video 🌹
Sometimes you know every word in this sentence, but you can't understand the real meaning. How did you deal with it ?
Have you encountered other thorny difficulties while reading and listening a lot? Do you choose to skip or deal with it in time?
Be patient. It all takes time
How do we make schools understand this
I’m a teacher and I keep banging on about it like a stuck record :@
schools won't even listen to polyglots
James Cook because ‘they’ve got a special talent/flare for languages that no one else has and they just pick them up naturally’ *rollseyes*
Not schools! It is the Government who creates the curriculum in most countries and teachers have to follow it. Teachers hardly have any freedom to teach. They have to prepare pupils to pass exams. Have a look at the British GCSE and A-levels in languages and you will see how it is.
@@languagesforall4808 I agree and thats what I meant when I said schools.
some people learn bettter or do better at languages and plus grammar is helpful but be smart and take the easiest route when it comes to grammar, just be smart.
ps. exposure huh...what if i don't comprehend the half of what the audiobook is saying? for example 3 out of every 9 words like harry potter?