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Kitesurfing vs Windsurfing Injuries
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ส.ค. 2024
- Who is more likely to get injured: a kitesurfer or a windsurfer? While the answer may not surprise you, what is truly interesting is the breakdown of injuries that occurred by skill level, as well as where kiting and windsurfing injuries are most likely to happen.
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I'm really impressed by the straight up presentation of the study. Thank you, great stuff.
What's quite interesting is the fact that yes, the windsurfers become more injured the more experience they get, this is because they CHOOSE to do more dangerous stuff. When you know how to plane with windsurfing and start experimenting with the the more dangerous stuff like jumping, you know and choose to be in more risk of an injury. With kitesurfing however, beginners get injured, not because they choose to do a trick or something but mostly because they are not aware of certain dangers. This makes the kitesurfing a more dangerous sport i.m.o.
CheepChoop I think that a pretty good explanation. Agreed that kitesurfing is much more dangerous, especially if you look at fatalities.
I am a windsurfer and a kitesurf of intermediate to advanced level on both sports. I am 43 years old and I windsurf since the age of 9. I kitesurf since the age of 28. I have had laceration on my chin and forehead which needed sticking doing loops in windsurfing after smashing my face on the boom. But the worst injury I had was ACL tear on my left knee after landing an over rotated front roll in kitesurf. I believe kitesurf is doing more damage in the knees from windsurfing. Windsurfing exerts more strain on the upper body and I believe is a more physical demanding sport. I love both, kiting for under 20 knots, windsurfing for the big days...!!
Good to know, especially from someone who has experience with both sports. Thanks for the insight :)
So cool!!! I enjoy both windsurfing and Kitesurfing. I absolutely agree with you that practicing 'the quick release' is sooo important with Kitesurfing. It saved me a big time about 2 yrs ago!! (I was trying to launch quickly to go out to the coral reef area to save my windsurfing buddie, but did not realize that my bar was tangled with the power lines.🙄😑)... and..I wear vest for both Kitesurfing and Windsurfing!! 😊😁
Helmets and impact vests have saved me a few times and prevented several injuries from being more severe. Reduced to a bruised ego from a bad "dismount" or just a bit of whiplash. I can see why more experienced windsurfers get hurt. They're learning and attempting tricks whereas beginners are just trying to get onto a plane. As kiters progress they have better control. I have learned this from experience with both. Happy sailing and warm winds. Wear your helmet and life jacket to you can have fun riding tomorrow too.
I'd like to see the windsurfer data split by wave and flat water sailing.
Same for kiting. Hopefully more studies will come out with a breakdown by discipline
So the avatar?
I don't remember ever getting injured while windsurfing. The worst incident I remember was the board taking off by itself after a fall. The sail somehow stayed up to catch wind. I had a long swim in but recovered the board after being pulled out to where it ended up by a friend. By comparison in kiting, I was dragged along the beach on a number of occasions getting scrape injuries.
What a great video ... having taught kiting and windsurfed for many years ... from what I have seen I agree 100% with your analysis .... do you guys have a Patreon page? I think your research is worth sponsoring. Keep up the great work!
We'll set it up just for you ;)
I used safety release twice as a beginner and this made me pay attention and learn better launching. Now I even check my safety before launch. Great video, thanks.
It makes a lot of sense that pretty much only experienced windsurfers get injured. They are the ones riding those 10 meter waves in dangerous beaches and blasting 70+ km/h close to each others. Windsurf gear is inherently safe when compared to kitesurf gear. With windsurfing wind can never lift you up in the air, it's pretty much impossible to hurt you badly when at the beach and the board acts as a flotation device.
Back problems with windsurfing are probably the most common downside, though keeping your back fit and using seat harness should help tremendously.
I've been windsurfing 23 years now, never been to hospital as a result of injury despite sailing mostly waves. All minor stuff, mostly feet cut, a shins banged really hard, toes a bit tweaked oh and one boom in the lip which did result in a mucocele in my lip which had to be lasered out. Quite a safe sport in my opinion.
People get ankle injuries because their straps are not set up properly. Beginners get nailed when learning to get into the straps/harness and the catapults can be brutal. A helmet is not a bad idea. I've been more hurt whitewater kayaking and paragliding.
Just getting into windsurfing and that's nice to know
Being an Advance to Expert windsurfer (no big wave surfing), I've never known anybody requiring to go to the hospital for injuries, but I've known at least half a dozen kitesurfers that required hospital visits.
I'm windsurfer (can say advanced to expert) and kites surfer (beginner to advanced). I have several dislocated ribs from 4 years ago windsurfing which are preventing me from using waist harness. None from the kite. Kite is definitely more scary in the beginning as people forget to depower or release, but definitely more safe when you progress as there aren't a lot of rig to hit.
Kiteboarding on open sea is a different beast, very different then flat water and more deadly. Also, here in the Netherlands we’ve had 3 kite surfing related deaths in the last year alone, windsurfing nothing in the past ten years. Kiteboarding is still ten times more awesome then windsurfing tho
Had quite a few trips to A&E windsurfing, but I was training for competitions trying double forward loops.
Kitesurfing have less injuries going for big air. Always wear a helmet for Foiling, been hit in the head a few times out in the waves.
Think its time they did a new study, modern kite safety systems are so good these days.
Wow, first time I see a comparison injuries. Very well resume too. Being in my end of fourthly (windsurf since I’m 8 yrs old) and contemplate for my first forward loop... I might think twice now. Good work and thanks!
Don’t think about it and go for it! I waited about 20 years before I started forward loops. Once you learn the mechanics of it, you really can’t injure yourself. I did literally hundreds of them with 3.7 to 5.7 sail and never an injury. GO FOR IT, don’t miss it!
Super informative, thank you! Great reminder to practice release. Will share with my fav kite buddy (my son)!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I’m a 60 year old that has 24 hours of lessions so far....
I have had 3 instructors and I also start by saying I don’t want to hurt someone or get hurt
My first 3 days I reviewed safety... boring but get lessons go slow and get to go again
Most fun I ever had
Great video
Steve
Thanks! We wish everyone had the same viewpoint on safety as you - it's not just about preventing your own injuries, but protecting others as well :)
I'm in a similar situation as you. I'm 52 and have taken about 8 hours of lessons and am also concerned about injuring myself or injuring other. Had one close call during a lesson with the kite almost hitting a group of women on the beach. So needless to say I'm proceeding with extreme caution. My next step is to buy my own equipment and practice but I'm nervous about doing that. I've been windsurfing my whole life but kitesurfing seems like something that will be easier on my body once I get the hang of it.
@@MarwanSati Hello, I have had a similar experience. I’ve windsurfer for 30 years and started kiting a couple years ago. No bad injuries in windsurfing and so far no issues kiting by taking things slowly. It’s a heck of a lot of fun!
@@MarwanSati One more thing, if you live someplace north where you can get on to a frozen lake with your kite and skis, you will progress DRAMATICALLY. I went from about your 8hours of beginner experience to having decent kite control in one winter. Then, this spring and summer I added in the board control and VOILA: I’m a novice Kiteboarder! I love the sport and rarely windsurf any longer...but fun to hop on the board again now and then. Good luck! Oh yeah, get your own equipment so you can go as often as possible!
Next Video: "Couch surfing vs Web Surfing injuries"
😄 to give a hypothesis : web surfers will have injuries in their shoulders and couch surfers in their lower back due to bad positioning ! conclusion: further research is recommended ..😉
Great Presentation. Be good to see this and more come from our Industry bodies.
When windsurfing first started with big boards and no harness I'm sure injuries were very low. As time progressed the sport became much more high-end with short boards, jumping, flips etc. It seems to me that with kitesurfing people have been doing crazy things like jumping from the very beginning, probably because it's easier to do so technically with the equipment. As a beginner kitesurfer I'm hopeful that the safety features of modern kites reduce risk of injury!
True. Now since 2016 windsurfing has ultra light boards and sails, you basically controling feathers and spining loops till you get killed :D
Good timing on the video. I have done some windsurfing (including in Toronto) but find it hard to progress. Thinking of giving kiting a go. Injuries wouldn't put me off either but its interesting to see advanced and pro windsurfers pushing themselves further to the point of injury where staying within your ability seems to be relatively safe
Lots of windsurfers that we know switched to kiting, especially here in Toronto as the winds are lower here
Nice video!
Well I think that the injuries of kitesurfing decreased by the time because of tchnical development for example the higher depower. Also schooling became more safe and professional giving beginners more knowledge. While the the windsurfing only developed a little bit since 2011, I think that the level of injuries might be at same by this time...
You could be right - there has been considerable development in gear since 2011, and we would imagine lessons to have also become more safety-conscious. As for windsurfing, we're not sure as it has been in decline for some time now.
Windsurfing is inherently safe, unless you go to huge waves, crash the beach with your head or blast high speed through obstacles (like other windsurfers). That's exactly why amateurs & intermediate level windsurfers don't really get injured. It's very nice that kitesurfing is becoming more safe as well, but I really can't see how it could ever be as safe as windsurfing for beginners or intermediate level surfers. Or even expert level guys when they are not catching the huge waves between rocky beach or some other risky business.
Cool video! Talking about injuries before summer starts could actually make a lot of people think two times before doing something dangerous and might help people stay out of the hospital 👌🤙
Thanks! That would be a great outcome. At the very least, we hope more kiters use the QR when need be and be extra careful on the beach
Let go of the boom windsurfing, and it all stops, let go of the bar kiting, and it all starts.
This phrase is so excellent, i'm going to steal it from you.
not quite right Adam. Beginners tend to clutch the bar "full power" as they lose control. With modern kites if you release the bar the kite depowers and the kite becomes more safe. That's not always true obviously and depends how windy etc. , and yes, a windsurfing rig is much safer in this regard.
@@gatorjos I agree, it's an older expression that harkens back to the early 2000s when the last thing you wanted to do was let go of your two-line kite bar or short-throw 4-line bar. Now that kites are so depowerable schools encourage letting go, something that still feels weird to me.
I think I know what you are trying to say - a windsurfer has near instant de-power by letting go of the boom. However, I disagree that letting go is the right thing to do in circumstances that actually matter. When a crash is imminent on a windsurfer, for example you are hooked in and going to get launched or whipped by the rig, you *absolutely* need to hold onto the boom. Why ? Because otherwise you stand a really good chance of getting whacked by the boom or the mast. In comparison, short of punching out the QR, letting go of the bar on a modern kite is the best thing to do. It might just float up to the apex or down to the water. Worst case, the tomahawk or loop will be a lot less intense when you are not fully sheeted in.
The worst is taking up kitesurfing from a windsurfing background. It takes a long time to unlearn the 'hold on to the boom (bar) at all cost' instinct.
Adam B. I believe that this is still very much true. While kiting, when you get to the point where you actually let the boom go due to some unforeseen event, you are already so much in trouble that something is bound to happen. Once i was taking a leap and I managed to put my board above the boom and entangle it on the lines. Effectively I was powering up by pulling down the bar my feet. The powered kite kept my legs stretched, and to untangle my feet i had to pull my legs down, powering the kite therefore even further. I was completely helpless, bouncing on the water like a teabag on an 5 o clock English tea break. After 4 of 5 bounces or so the kite fell to the water and i managed to pull myself free again. The idea of pulling the safety release crossed my mind, but I was completely clueless on where I was and what was happening, so I had no chance to find where the release was... So, in my experiment, you can be sure that, while windsurfing, the moment you let the boom go it is about the end of the story, but while kitesurfing it might well just be about the very beginning...
Great information. Thank you. Please consider posting a follow up with up to date information linked to this video so we don't have look for it or as I accidentally found this one. 🖖
Very interesting video! Also, I think your approach is very good, really sticking to the facts! THANKS!
I practice both kitesurfing and field hockey (which in the Netherlands actually is a sport for men as well haha ;) ). My experience is that in field hockey I am more prone to injury than in kitesurfing:
In ~1270 hours of field hockey at intermediate level I've had my ankle sprained 2 or 3 times, I've had a fractured finger and a dislocated shoulder.
In ~700 hours of kitesurfing at beginner to advanced level (unhooked freestyle, no big air) I've head an eye injury due to kitelines ending up in my face. This is my only real injury. Furthermore I did have had some minor issues with over-stressing my elbow and bruising my hands with unhooking. Unhooking is just terrible for the hands & arms. I've learned that letting go of the bar is very important here!
I do ride boots and although people often warn about the dangers regarding this, I've never had any boots related injuries.
I think between 2011 & 2020 kiteboarding has become way more popular! In the Netherlands, spots are getting increasingly busy. In the summer months, my homespot the 'Zandmotor' is all about avoiding other kites. There is no room at all for unhooking. This is very frustrating, but I do keep going to this spot for those very few 'golden hours'. The overcrowdedness I think has become a major contributor in injuries.
Cheers! Bastiaan
Thanks Bastiaan! It’s interesting to hear different perspectives from kiters around the world. We were thinking back to kite injuries we’ve witnessed or experienced - most common one is cracked or broken ribs from big air gone wrong. Second to that would be knee injuries from bad landings or crashes. Thankfully overcrowding is rarely an issue here :)
Fantastic!! (Still orthopedic surgeon) I never saw spot-on injury relevant studies before!
Just waiting on the data for jumping hard objects like a pier ;)
After >10 years practicing in Spain and France, I know a few cases of contusions, sprains, cuts in windsurfing. In the other hand, I know quite a few severe crashes (beach, buildings...) and deaths in kitesurfing. Seems the risk of life-changing injury in kitesurf is still unresolved, whatever the marketing is trying to say.
Cool video comparison
Thank you for this interesting topic! Kite is by far more dangerous for you during learning curve (mostly just after your training course, when you almost know nothing about take off and landing). Most schools want their customer happy doing waterstart quickly and most trainers do beach take off and landing for you! So when beginners buy their own gear, they just play with their lives (or yours) In addition most beginners purchase second hand material, sometimes in poor condition, with possibly stretched line or leaking leading edges, both being very dangerous and don’t always have appropriate kite size when wind rises up or moving gusty! In addition many beginners leave quite far from spots so their practice being sporadic , they forget very quickly the key safety rules... This study shows the number of hospital injuries but I would be quite interested to know the number of near miss or middle injuries that have lead beginners to have such fear that they stopped kite! A great difference with Windsurf is that people give up not by fear but because it is so difficult to progress as it is so easy in kite when you overcome the first year of self training after course!Any similarities with my own experience being pure coïncidence 😜
Great video. Awesome use of graphic overlay.
Something that i didn't know existed was shown in this video - inflatable wind surf sail @1:32 . What i observed from fast riding windsurfers is that sometimes they come to a dead stop in a second, most likely due to nose diving, that looks really traumatic.
Super interesting video! Thanks
The more physically demanding the worse the injury. Accidents in kiting occur at the beach, windsurfing is way more damaging even trying basic jumps.
Very good video, information and tips - thank you very much!
I think (only if information available of course) it could have been interesting to look at the mortality cases and how/why they occured. Bringing attention to the community and what to avoid in extreme situations too.
And for sure the study did not / could not go in those details but a factor could have been which discipline and where. For the windsurfing part, wave riding is different than slalom and different than freestyle. Brings different type of injuries but the most severe are probably "for" the hard core wave riding windsurfers. 70 to 80% of the windsurfers will probably be sailing on relatively flat waters, independently of their skill level. Question being: with 15 to 20 kn, on relatively flat water, where do they see more risks and injuries - kite or windsurf.
Again: in any case, thank you very much for the video and summarizing the results of the study !
Thanks - glad you liked the video! We did consider mortality rates but there's not much we could find on it and it also is kind of a downer to talk about. 100% agree it would've been great to break things down by discipline for both windsurfing and kitesurfing. Hopefully a study is published in the future that dives into the different disciplines that we have today.
Thanks for your reply! About "mortality rates": yes, I fully agree this is a sensitive topic / not easy, still rare for chance and by definition not promoting our sports (having said that, other sports do have death cases too obviously).
In our small windsurfing community, we just had one case (one death) 2w ago approximately. Background (sorry for the details but it might help someone else): rig issue, ended up swimming 30 mins in cold water. Cardiac arrest soon after. We (community) started a "bigger" discussion about how to avoid it + what is everyone's responsibility thinking that another windsurfer (Kiter too probably) might need some help on the same spot when we are sailing. Independently of the devices each of us will decide to take when sailing or not, maybe (probably) it does make sense to push the idea of: have fun, enjoy the day and your hobby, but do keep an eye open for the guys sailing around you. Look around you, regularly, actively too.
=> I do not mean you have to change or add something to your video. Again: the simple fact you are bringing up the topic of injuries is a great thing. Thanks again.
Thanks Laurie for a nice overview. The rates probably went up last decade. The sport has become more accessible due to improvements in materials / safety. That probably has attracted more mainstream public instead of more adventurous pioneers. Release systems became quite good since 2007... Now most accidents in NL are due to lacking knowledge about meteorology , currents , obstacles , crowded places etc.
That could be the case. As we saw on the beach in Cuba (very popular destination for Canadian kiters - especially beginners), the main issues were with controlling the kite - launching & landing, and not pulling the QR - so it's interesting to hear what common problems are in other locations.
ACCESSIBLE ??! But prices of equipment went up so much not to many milenials can afford this sport! Example cabrinha bar with lines in Canada $860+13% sales tax ! Crazy
I'm getting fewer injuries since I began kitesurfing 3 years ago , but curiously I'm 100% heartbroke after watching your excellent content ~
Heartbroke? Why?
@@OurKiteLife Beause of the very cute Kitesurfer girl who is such a heartbreaker.
I liked the video in the beginning. I am a beginer windsurfer ;)
As a frequent contributor to these statistics I would have liked a mortality rate included. I need to know when I'm likely to die. 😆
Great video!
Not surprising most accidents happen when launching and landing. I had quite a bunch of different instructors when learning, almost none of them learned you this part, they’re doing it themselves.
I asked for it and luckily one guy was willing to let me practice, same with a self rescue.
Most schools want you to get on the board as quickly as possible and skip the rest.
I'm a beginner at kiteboarding and launching the kite is easily the most dangerous moment as you never know if I should have checked my lines five times instead of four plus calculating the wind's strength.
One piece of great advice I was given, was to have the safty leash attached to the front of the harness; that way, should anything go wrong and you get dragged it is very easy to disconnect. Touch wood, I haven't had to use it in an emergency, yet! But going by this video my chances of having an acident are decreasing by the hour (on the water).
I would think that the injury rate for kiters didn’t changed much. Yes, we have improvements like the better kite depower, user friendlier kite behavior and single front line safety that became the widespread standard. On the other hand, beginners still don’t pull the safety QR. They still hold on to the bar as that’s their instinctive reaction. On the more advanced kiter side the hype about “big air” I bet added some increased injuries thus offsetting the gear improvements. Great video by the way and an important topic. As a windsurfer & kiter (rare species) I totally agree to what you presented.
Agreed on beginners not pulling safety QR, will add that sometimes intermediates and advanced don't do it too. Good point on big air hype adding the risk of injuries, we are definitely hooked on big airs.
Thanks a lot for the video.
Very great study! In my perspective as an expert windsurfer, wave jumping Is way the best way to hurt yourself , i mean pushing hi jumps with nice waves. I agree that kite beginners loosing control of kite during lunch are in the worst position for injuries. The very bad thing of It, i am referring to Italy only, Is that i am hearing of 2/3 fatality per year with kitesurfing, while only one in over 30 years with windsurfing (a poor windsurfer felt over the fin with the stomach in the 90's). In kite, falling away from the Sea or cutting yourself with lines or being trapped underwater and drawning are the most deadful risks. I also agree that in windsurfing, expecially wave jumping It shiuld be important to wear an helmet, becouse the most risky thing Is to hit the head and loose consciousness and sink, but very few of wavejumpers do It... For italian law Is compulsory to wear Life vest, which Is nearly unpractical, while in kite Is not, and if wind goes down It Is more importante than for windsurf, while It Is to wear the helmet .
I windsurfed for 17 years without injury.but my number came up.out in 40 knots.yeah just the usual westerly gale I thought.a sudden wind change and increase from behind launched me at uncontrollable speed.i hit some bad chop,spun out,the leeward rail dug in.at the same time the boom head clamp broke,and I fell backwards with my left foot stuck in the strap.broken ankle,dislocated at 90 degrees and no sailing for 15 months.with years of experience also comes complacency.
windsurfing is not just about speed, it's about strolling in the friendly sea. At 40 knots of wind everything becomes dangerous .... decrease the sail the next time and avoid exorbitant speeds. After all, you practice windsurfing ... there's no need, unless you're training for championships
What is the general discussion on safety around kite surfing? I understand during a clinic that all aspects of safety is brought up. However I see a large majority of kiters never make sure to look around them before a gybe, fall off wind or making a jump and then get surprised when there’s a fellow surfer there and nearly or do collide with.
I’ve seen too many close calls and even serious accidents that could have been easily avoided just by looking over the shoulder.
Agreed, when you switch lanes on the highway you check your blind spot, yet kiters rarely do that when they switch direction. Also not all kite instructors teach safety as often times beginners focus too much on getting on the board.
Im sorry to say this but the methodology of study is very questionable.
The study only selected patients admitted to one specific hospital. No surfers not admitted to the hospital were questioned. The size of the study was quite small -- N_Kite 29 and N_Windsurf 31
This selection bias and the small sample size lets us conclude a couple of things:
Only people that where actually injured and went to this one specific hospital where taken into account. If someone does not have an accident, they will not show up in this statistics. This probably leads to a significant overestimation of injury rate.
Another issue is that people with more minor injures tend to not visit the hospital. And if they do visit a doctor is probably in a different location and mostly if the injury persists. This can also cause all kinds of (statistical) issues, as there might be some difference in whats kinds of injuries happen with kite- and windsurfing.
In conclusion, these issues negate any claims the authors make with regards to the statistical significance of Kitesurfing vs Windsurfing injury rates. (The p value was already just _at_ the margin, leaving no room for error).
This goes to show how important it is to randomly sample a population if one wants relevant results.
Link to the paper:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5155257/
Example of a sound study, on a similar topic, in case some one wonders how to do it right:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4566014/
Thank you
My dad had 2 GNARLY windsurf accidents. One his back front foot got out of the strap during a back flip and boom, long ass rod in the leg. The other one he almost got tetraplegic… thank god he still around ripping on short boards !!!
Yikes! Glad to hear he’s still riding :)
Excellent topic. This study is pretty interesting and matches 100% with what I assumed. Thanks! Conclusion: instructors must get better at teaching Kite control and global behavior on the beach.
Agreed, while the sample size was small the data presented in the study appears to match real life. Also agreed on instructors teaching kite control, as from what we witnessed it appears that most instructors rush to water start right too soon.
We crashed a lot last year, so much that I made a youtube compilation of it😅 luckily no gear or bones where broken! Think the a lot of experienced kiters get knee injury because of bad landings after jumps/tricks
Thanks for the great video, seriously the best presentation of information in a direct yet engaging way, with cool background effects and showing raw data and helping viewers draw conclusions. Nice to see some science communicators in the Kite world, :!!!! ... As for your question.. I think the main factor at play is 1) safer and easier to release gear (should reduce injury rate) and 2) far more people learning to kite, more schools, lower bar of entry to the sport or to become an instructor (should increase injury rate)... .. based on your Cuba video, and my recent experiences... I think people are still shy to pull the safey and are buying and using gear independantly before they are ready... so my final hypothesis.... rate has gone up :)
Thanks so much :) good point - wouldn’t be surprised if the rate has gone up since the study period
thank you! great! i'm practising both sports; but i do not think that wearing protective equipment would confer any significant risk reduction in injuries: ALL my windsurfing injuries were confined on knees, ankles and elbow/shoulder. same should be true for kitesurfing too (i'm only riding strapless and foiling); an exeption to it would be wearing a helmet when foiling
Honestly, we only wear a helmet when foiling too. We are required by law to wear a PFD in Ontario, which also serves as an impact vest. So far only injury has been knee as well
Ribs are a frequent injury while kiteboarding, especially in some maneuvers involving rotation and/or kiteloops.
Great presentation!
amount of injuries is most likely to increase dramatically , due to introducing foils, most likely for both disciplines.
As a both kitesurfer and windsurfer i can't even count the scars i have on my knees and arms:')
that's true :)
Love your methodical analysis !!🤙🏼🤙🏼
What a detailed video!! I like that!!
I dont even have that video of myself😂 4:57 Interested in where you found this.
Stock footage site 🙂
Love this channel!!!
Thank you :)
I would like to see a breakdown including foiling. Also mountain biking since that is a common no wind day activity for both groups.
Us too! Very curious what the injury rate for foilboarding is. Mountain biking would also be interesting to see too as that’s a common no wind activity for many kiters we know as well
Excellent video, thank you.
Most instructor certifications now require beginners to learn on short lines. Line length is leverage - like the gears in a car. So beginners who learn and master short and medium before long lines are much safer. Full de-power bridled kites and better safety systems are also an advantage - if people practice simulated emergencies enough times so that it is instinctive... if the first time you need to eject is a couple of years after you watched a video or did it once in your first lesson, then it's unlikely that you will successfully reach it while upside down and backwards at 3G acceleration force.
Also, the trend towards "intermediate syndrome" where many people decide that safety rules only applied to beginners has increased, and old school riders/instructors often set bad examples for new riders by teaching beginners on long lines, jumping close to shore and riding through swimmers.
Instructors should take note that if an accident happens when teaching a beginner on long lines, your insurance policy will not cover you and you will be open to criminal negligence/reckless endangerment charges as well as civil liability judgements for financial compensation.
Thanks for your comment - lots of good points! We saw lessons taking place in Antigua on short lines a few years ago - didn’t know that that’s now required by instructor certifications but it makes sense
"if people practice simulated emergencies enough times so that it is instinctive" exactly my words. Will discuss it with my teacher. I miss this in the lessons.
Useful information, presented straight up! Keep up the good work!
great analysis
Thank you 🙂
It would have been interesting to also separate the different disciplines, because I would guess that there is quite a difference for example between wave and freeride/race .
Agreed. Hopefully if a similar study is done again, they break it down discipline. It would be interesting to see foilboarding represented too
Unfortunately for windsurfing I don't find much information on what to do when you feel that you are going to crash.
This study makes perfect sense to me. Expert riders do this for a living and do very risky things. Freestyle in many sports is much more dangerous than free-ride.
It would be interesting to see how foiling in both sports changes the risk. Personally I will stick to free-ride for now and avoid the foil in high winds.
Yeah - it will be interesting to see if any similar studies come out that include foiling!
Marko - I used I to wonder the same thing but 30 years of windsurfing has taught me to instinctively do a couple things when I’m going very fast and starting to lose control. I tend to unhook so I don’t slam into the mast. I also try to scoot my feet slightly out of the straps if possible so I don’t twist the heck out of my ankles. So basically unconnected myself from the rig so I can maybe push it away as I’m falling. Hope this helps. By the way, I started kiting and (knock on wood) haven’t had any crazy falls or kite disasters. The quick release is my friend...
@@stevedail1 Thank you for sharing your experience!
@Marko Posavec: There's a bit of info here for you: th-cam.com/video/Y0lUoga4JQQ/w-d-xo.html
Thank you. Great reminder to stay alert. What your view on safety release on the beach... isn’t that dangerous to people on the beach? Or because the kite is not “powered” it has less impact?
Thanks! Hm... I would think if you land the kite on someone with full power, the risk of impact or cutting them with lines is likely much greater
Good that you ask, but of you do it means you need lessons with proper instructors, this kind if things (and many other safety related) should have been covered while learning to ride.
Interesting, but as doctor and windsurfer for 32 years, having made my medical thesis on windsurf injuries and having discovered kite in 1996,by myself in 2001,kitesurfing is obviously very much more dangerous than windsurf.every year some kite boarders leave their life in my area of South of France. Every year they pay a high toll of orthopedic problems. Lethal injuries in windsurf are very very rare and trauma are less important than in kitesurfing. There s no debate. When you run at 40knots on kite, when you jump at 10 meters, you pay the price at one moment or the other.
However, OK, if if was living in a Caribbean island with 15 regular knots of wind, OK kite is a very pleasant, extraordinary sport.but in gusty, "strong" winds avoid it. I've seen too much good friends with very good skill badly injured for life....
We agree - it wasn’t surprising to find out there were more injuries in kitesurfing compared to windsurfing. Good point re: strong and gusty conditions - that will definitely put you at risk for very serious injuries or death in the case of an accident
Alain je sais pas jusqu'à quelle hauteur tu as osé sauté en windsurf. Arrivé à une certaine hauteur, et notamment avec les figures "late front', ça commence à devenir dangereux. En kite, avec une bonne maîtrise et de l'expérience, tu peux sauter à 20 mètre et faire un atterrissage tout en douceur, avec la technique de l'héliloop par exemple. Voilà pourquoi je trouve cette étude extrêmement juste. Plus le kiter est expérimenté, moins il prend de risque, tout simplement grâce à la maîtrise du pilotage de son aile qui lui permet de diriger et assouplir sa chute. Plus le windsurfer est expérimenté, plus il prend de risque car la maîtrise de son matériel lui permet de prendre plus de hauteur et d'amplitude sans que ce dernier ne le protège en cas de lourde chute. L'étude se penche sur la corrélation entre le niveau des pratiquants et le risque associé à cette même pratique, non sur sur approche globale du risque portant sur l'ensemble des pratiquant tous niveaux confondus!
@@raphadesmontagnes coriolan, oui je suis d'accord qu'il y a une sur expression des accidents chez les débutants en kite /gens expérimentés et que l'accidentologie en windsurf sera plus importante, inversément chez les gens expérimentés que chez les débutants. Après, OK la technologie préventive en kite, s'est, fort heureusement, améliorée, j'en conviens.la difficulté de l'étude là et son biais sous jacent est qu'on peut difficilement quantifier la gravité des traumatismes:une entorse grave de cheville en windsurf ne vaut pas une fracture tibia péroné avec diastasis, qui est quasi impossible en windsurf, possible en kite, etc etc.
J'adore le kite et suis admiratif des prouesses et de sensation de liberté que cela amène et suis parfois très inquiet des pathologies que les copains de Gruissan me relatent qui n'ont aucune mesure avec ce que je constate en Windsurf sur Gruissan où je navigue toute l'année. Après ce n'est que mon sentiment et sûrement pas une vérité scientifique, le flair de médecin de terrain, pas plus, pas moins.... Bonne nav, chez nous c'est reparti 😊 !
Plz make a the same for wingfoiling vs kitesurfing injuries
Thanks for the vid, great stuff!
I would wager that it also depends on country and social factors, as in some areas, schooling isn't as profesional or sought after, and there are still people learning to kite on their own, which always leads to accidents and injuries.
Good point!
*"Wingsurfers and wavesurfers had left the chat..."*
I'm a freestyle windsurfer. Trying to learn new freestyle tricks is definately the thing that's causing the injuries. Those tricks are just extremely difficult and it's easy to lose control due to a gust of wind etc. during the manouvre. I had three injuries and they all happend during tricks. Nothing serious though (broken foot, dislocated thumb, broken fingers). Luckily all of it healed completely. The broken foot took a whole year to be normal again though.
Good to know! Thanks for sharing your insight as a freestyle windsurfer :)
Also need to count the injuries kiters suffer when choking on their lipsticks or being blinded by their tight flouro shorts..
very well explained video, loved it
getting fancy with the green screen! Ill bet injuries are up as sport gets more extreme!! Did the hospital thing last year when got tossed on a wave, bruised ribs, great time!
Thanks! We've had lots of time to use it now that we've been home for a while. Ouch - bruised ribs don't sound like fun, but we would assume that's better than a break
I got 2 injuried in 3 months windsurfing. Im intermediate and dont do tricks. 1 time my foot got stuck between the mast and board. This made me unable to walk for 2 days, the 3rd day I was back surfing. The 2nd time I fell at high speed where the sail went 1 direction, my body another, while still being hooked, the harness metal bar turned on my rib and pushed into it. The first few days couldnt sleep on that side. Its 3rd week now and still hurting, tho much less.
Sorry to hear that! Hope you feel better soon.
Amazing video like always
Super interesting super helpful thank you
Good video, as always! I would think kiting injuries have stayed the same, since not pulling the QR is the main culprit.
That could very well be the case!
The sample might be small, and the data not so relevant, but it is the best reminder I ever had about being careful and do not become a statistic perse. I fell a lot, a lot of times. The only time I remember using the chicken loop was when learning with an instructor. Otherwise I am usually dragged around until it stops and yet I do not release. Can't help it...lol.
Thanks for the video!!
Great video! Thanks for looking into this.
You bet!
Our Kite Life love your channel altogether and always look forward to your next release!
I read that same study. It's valid for what they were doing (comparing windsurfing to kitesurfing) but the injury rates they found for both are inflated by selection bias. They found injury rates by asking athletes who got injured to estimate how many hours they spent kitesurfing/windsurfing. So the study wouldn't count the hours of responsible, risk-averse kitesurfing by someone who never got injured. That bias probably affects the kitesurfers group more since beginners get injured, while windsurfing looks safe until you become a total badass after years of practice.
Statistics pedantry aside, kitesurfing is more dangerous than windsurfing, but both are WAY safer (and cooler) than not exercising.
Love the scientific approach.
You mentioned the helmet and I think beginners should wear one. I wore one the whole winter and suffered some harder back edge slams than without a helmet. I think considering a whiplash a helmet could improve the amount of drag on your neck. But i never found a study for or against my opinion. Maybe you got some better information?
Best wishes
We've heard anecdotally that helmets can make things worse sometimes, but personally we wish we had started wearing them (for snowkiting) earlier. Looking back at pictures of us snowkiting years ago without them is a little cringe-worthy now...
Still recovering from my
cruciate ligament operation. Torn by practicing kiteloops. 6 month recovery after operation
Sorry to hear that - sounds painful! Hope the rest of your recovery goes smoothly
I also know a very simple wind forecast application - Cyclono
Very interesting video, to get more real overview it will be necessary to include the number of kite begginers and number of high level windsurf, so to have a proportion. Furthermore, if you are high level windsurfer you can be more or less radical so you will live longer!
Yes, agreed - hopefully they can do more studies with a more detailed breakdown in the future
I enjoy both. I think Kitesurfing is safer as long as you do not do any tricks (but you will be bored). Windsurfing requires so much for focus when you are going fast especially during jibing (and even tacking) and does NOT require any tricks to have fun... Personally, I think windsurfing just takes too long to achieve the advance level (water start, speed jibing, and speed tacking)...
Thanks for your input! We’ve heard similar things about the slow learning curve for windsurfing
Knowing where your safety actually is, is key. It needs to be on the front of your harness unless you do handle pass manouvers or it can be behind you as you get dragged. When i self launch i put 1 hand on the release so i can punch out instantly if it goes wrong - learned that via a broken shoulder - only got to the safety on the 3rd bounce. In any situation i think i might be in trouble hand to safety. i.e getting dragged in bigger waves or having put kite on water at the edge of the window in a squall. That way i can punch out the moment i get out of control but not before as resetting in big waves is almost impossible.
Great points! Thanks for the comment
Well done!
Thanks Armin!
Time on the water is not covered. Maybe the advanced windsurfers spent more time and therefore were more likely to be hurt? Also, not all 'injuries' are equal, I bet the kite injuries, like the sport, are more 'gnarly!
To some extent I agree that with better de-powerable kites the potential for injuries for the individual kitesurfer is less than it used to be. However there has been a surge in the take up of kitesurfing so numerically more injuries. On the other hand there a few new windsurfers these days. Perhaps new joiners are attracted to be freestyle windsurfers where injuries are likely to be more frequent due to practicing difficult manouvers. During decades of windsurfing I have seen more serious injuries to kitesurfers, deaths appear to more frequent than windsurfers and sadly I witnessed one experienced kitesurfing instructor die due to line failure during a high jump.
So sorry to hear that. Most of the injuries we've witnessed have also happened as a result of a high jump gone wrong. The idea of a line failure during a high jump is terrifying.
@@OurKiteLife and he'd gone out jumping high to find someone's lost kiteboard that had got away from the owner in a strong outgoing tide rip.
😔😔😔
Great video - I'd say since about 2008 kiteboarding safety stats should improve due to the safety improvements in the gear as you mentioned. In the 90's one fellow windsurfer died here in Alberta, strong winds and big waves. I believe he drowned. I can remember getting caught under my sail several times with the harness lines twisted tight and always wonder if this may have been the cause of death. It can happen. Need to manage the risks and look out for each other, for either sport.
Yeah looking for each other is key, we do that at our home spot all the time. With regards to safety, we are torn on whether it is safer now or not due to the rise of foilboarding. Will need to wait for studies to shine some light onto it.
It seems to me that the kite surfer doesn't want to use the quick release in these situations because he's afraid of losing his kite for some jam he may be able to fix
Great video thanks! I wonder what percentage of the accidents and what percentage of the sailors were on waves as opposed to Flatwater? My guess would be that most of the wind surfing accidents were wave sailors.
Not sure - but the study was conducted in a coastal region of the Netherlands, but didn't specify exactly where
@@OurKiteLife love the channel thanks for the reply!
regarding more serious injuries (not scratches etc.) it is definitely the freestyle and not the waves.
Interesting video! Thanks for doing it and sharing it. It is always interesting to note where others are having problems, doing extreme sports, especially kiters, and especially with the highest number of injuries in jumping in kiting. To answer your question, I think the number of injuries went down for kiters , starting in 2014, when kite manufacturers like cabrinha came out with the advanced quick release chicken loop, in 2014, that was super easy to use, both to pull the safety and to put it back together, while kiting, where as before this, the design was such a pain putting it back together many kiters did not want to pull their safety, unless absolutely had too. The early kiting days when people were kiting without a safety, and directly connected to their kites, were super dangerous and resulted in many more more injuries per year, now with the new super easy to use quick release safety systems in kiting, their are way less injuries. Plus as more people are kiting now, there are more helpful videos like yours, on youtube and facebook, that we kiters can watch to help us learn things faster and safer, and with the newer controls with new much safer and easy to use quick release systems, like with your great videos. Thanks. Keep them coming. :)
Thanks! It's funny that you mention 2014 - as that's around the time I (Laurie) started kiting. We made the 'Kiting Value Experiment' video where I tried a foil kite from 2006 - and the quick release looked so strange to me. Could see avoiding using it as I wouldn't want to put it all back together. That being said, it does seem as though many kiters still avoid using the QR, even when they should.
I would say it’s safer especially with kiting as back in the day you didn’t have all the safety features as we have today. This is for beginners. Also, there are more schools. For advanced athletes it has gotten more dangerous as the level of skill has give up significantly as well as risk. Same with windsurfing. The tricks they are doing now wouldn’t have ever been imagined 10 years ago.
Good points! The tricks are definitely more advanced in both sports now compared to ten years ago.
Bit of misleading video, that leaves out the main conclusion of the original paper: "The results suggest that kitesurfing has a significantly higher injury rate than windsurfing". But there is also an obviously massive selection bias in the original "study". With windsurfing it is very difficult to get injured unless one is doing quite advanced freestyle moves, or radical wave riding. Something the vast majority of windsurfers never do but is the main activity for the location of the study. Take those activities out of the picture, and the windsurfing injury rate is almost non existent. With Kiting people have died in unfortunately great numbers just on the beach, dragged by their kites.
watching this with a broken wrist yesterday from windsurfing
Ouch, sorry to hear that! Hope your recovery goes well